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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

16 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Give me an all female crossover or have a team travel to the future ala JLU.

As long as it's not the same writers for The Flash, since they mostly butchered the female Flash episode with horrible writing (no female actively talks about girl power and #feminism in every day speak), then I'd be down for it. Maybe get the Legends/Supergirl writers, or entirely new writers. 

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

Marc used to be an editor with the LA Times and, before that, worked at Entertainment Weekly.  Kevin's joked that the reason so many Buffy articles and covers happened during and after the show's run are because of Marc being a huge fan.  Marc's been an entertainment writer for a while and is only now getting into television.  I watch their show on YouTube and they always get asked fan questions along these lines.  Kevin always approaches these type of questions as the comic fanboy who wants to see his favorite stories get adapted while Marc tries to think of stories that could be effective independent of what he wants to see.  And, when it is something he wants to see, he'll explicitly say it (eg, he always mentions that he wants Marvel to kill off Hawkeye).  I don't think either watch Arrow (at least they never talk about it and the shows they do watch usually get a brief mention) so, when he talked about killing Oliver Queen as a crossover catalyst, he's not saying he hates the character or the show, he's approaching it as something that would bring together all the shows.  He also has stated he would write the death of Captain America (one of his theories about Avengers 3 or 4) as being at the hand of Black Widow.  Not because of the shock factor, but because Cap trusts Natasha implicitly and she can get close to him.  He's talked about how Natasha would never do that of her own free will and so would need to be under mind control and Thanos is seen taking the stone that has that power from Vision.  When shows and movies do better than his theories and 'what ifs', he's the first one to say so.  Marc's also always makes a point of saying "this is how I would do it" rather than "this is how it should be done" and, if he feels disappointed by a movie or show (most recently, the Three Billboards movie), he'll explain why.  If it had been Kevin who said that, I'd say it was definitely coming from a comic fanboy perspective (and I really like Kevin but he can definitely get too far in that zone) but I know Marc's approach to theories and 'what ifs' so it didn't even phase me when I watched it.

It's actually a fun show and I recommend it. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

For an all female crossover, I would give it to the LoT and Supergirl writers. The Helen of Troy episode of LoT was basically an all female team up episode, along with Hedy Lamarr saving the day with Firestorm. 

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

Just now, Sakura12 said:

For an all female crossover, I would give it to the LoT and Supergirl writers. The Helen of Troy episode of LoT was basically an all female team up episode, along with Hedy Lamarr saving the day with Firestorm. 

Anyone who wants to write female heavy comic movies/shows need to watch Wonder Woman and the Helen Hunt episode of LOT.  Well, they need to watch all of LOT as well but Helen Hunt was pitch perfect.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

3 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Someone should tell these comicbook guys that centering a big event on the death of a character is lazy and cliched storytelling. There's a reason why no one takes death seriously in comics; it's used so often as a gimmick that it has lost all meaning. How many times has Superman died? It's boring now.

People who read comics would find it boring; the audience who doesn't read comics would leave in droves.  There is no way I would watch any of the Arrowverse shows again if they killed Oliver. (After Saving Hope, Major Crimes and the death of Stein on LoT, I'm done with show runners who think that it's a good way to end the series.)

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

Hence why it was stupid as hell to kill off Superman in Batman v Superman. Literally everyone knew he was coming back, so why should anyone be bummed out he was dead, and why would anyone be shocked that he came back in two movies? 

I dont think its always bad to kill characters, but, especially in comics, its pretty much pointless. Unless you have totally run out of stories for a character, or it makes sense for their character arc*, why bother having them die? You know they'll come back via clone/magic/reality being rebooted again/something like that, the audience knows it, sometimes even the freaking characters know it, so why act like its "for really reals this time guys!" every time? Maybe if its a supporting, civilian character, they'll stay dead, but even than its touch and go. 

*Even then, its likely that some author will bring them back anyway. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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bijoux

bijoux

54 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

People who read comics would find it boring; the audience who doesn't read comics would leave in droves.  There is no way I would watch any of the Arrowverse shows again if they killed Oliver. (After Saving Hope, Major Crimes and the death of Stein on LoT, I'm done with show runners who think that it's a good way to end the series.) 

We're not even talking about a series ending here, but the first part of a season, so it makes no sense to me. Either Arrow can't go on for another 15 episodes, or you know that the death is meaningless. Added to that, Oliver's always been the anchor of these things and for as long as Arrow is on air, I don't see it changing. 

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

24 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

If the writers are looking for crossover ideas, or who should write them, they really, really, really, really, really, really should reach out to Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Alan Burnett, and their team of writers. 

Paul Dini: YES

Bruce Timm: Noooooooooooooooooo

...Ok I’d accept Timm if he wasn’t in charge. He’d do one of his Timm-only ships like Felicity/Ralph* and no one would have any fun. 

If Dini were in charge it would be awesome. 

*I picked this nonexistent ship just for emphasis. 

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

1 minute ago, scarynikki12 said:

 

1. Bruce Timm: Noooooooooooooooooo

...Ok I’d accept Timm if he wasn’t in charge. He’d do one of his Timm-only ships like Felicity/Ralph* and no one would have any fun. 

2. If Dini were in charge it would be awesome. 

*I picked this nonexistent ship just for emphasis. 

1. Yes, as I'm thinking, you're right. It was his bloody idea to have Bruce/Bats and Babs/Batgirl (EWWWWWW!!!) and he even admitted it was wrong; teased me us, INCESSANTLY with Bats and Diana, with no payoff, and instead did the whole Othello with Jon Stewart/GL and Shayera/Hawkgirl.

2. Yes, Paul is awesome. If only Dwayne McDuffie were still here, he'd be awesome as well.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

If Thor: Ragnarok is a Marvel comedy, Infinity War is a heist film
BY ERIN CARSON  NOVEMBER 1, 2017 
https://www.cnet.com/news/avengers-infinity-war-russo-brothers-interview/

Quote

By the end of 2019, Joe and Anthony Russo, brothers and self-described comic book fanboys, will have directed four Marvel movies: "Captain America: The Winter Soldier," "Captain America: Civil War," "Avengers: Infinity War," due out next year, and a second, still-untitled Avengers movie slated for 2019.
*  *  *
I went to Pinewood Atlanta Studios to talk to Joe and Anthony about what it's like to helm a full-fledged Avengers movie, explore virtual reality storytelling and get inspiration from '90s heist films. The following is an edited transcript of our conversation.
*  *  *
What's the biggest difference between directing a Captain America movie and a full-blown Avengers movie?
Anthony: On one level, it's the scope of the ensemble. While the Captain America movies we did were ensemble films, and Civil War had a lot of characters in it, they both fail in comparison to these two. Joe and I have always been drawn to ensemble storytelling. We like the idea of telling stories from multiple characters' points of view and thinking about the story from multiple characters' points of view. It's a way to develop very layered, thick storytelling. It's the kind of storytelling that, hopefully, you can keep revisiting because there are a lot of dimensions to discover on multiple viewings.
*  *  *
Joe: You have all these characters coming from successful franchises where they have their own history, their own emotional history, and you put them all together in one film and with all the different tones and different styles. It's fascinating. We're like mad scientists in the writers' room, with [screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely], figuring out how to marry all those tones and all those characters together. It's a hell of an exercise.
*  *  *
You've talked before about your love of subverting genre. Can we expect that in "Infinity War"?
Anthony: With "Infinity War," the biggest new element to the movie is Thanos and the fact that he's entering the storytelling in a very bold, strong way, to the degree that he's almost one of the leads. We've shaped an interesting narrative around him that in some ways leans heavily on a heist film in the fact that he's going after the infinity stones in a much bolder, successful way than he has in the past. The entire movie has that energy of the bad guy being one step ahead of the heroes. We looked at a lot of movies that had that heist-style energy to them, [and] that brought some inspiration.
*  *  *
Will there be any unexpected characters, and can you give us a hint?
Joe: There's going to be a lot of unexpected characters. There are more surprises packed into this film than any of the others. Part of that is character interactions, new interesting characters, characters that have made small appearances that are really getting fleshed out in this film. A lot of people enjoy the experience, so I don't want to give anything away, but certainly you can expect lots of surprises.

Anthony Russo is Most Excited for Thor’s Storyline in ‘Avengers: Infinity War’
BY ASHLEY DYE   January 2, 2018
http://fanfest.com/2018/01/02/anthony-russo-is-most-excited-for-thors-storyline-in-avengers-infinity-war/

Quote

Of course, we’re also curious as to what characters those on set are most curious to see in the big film. So when Anthony Russo was asked which character that was for him, his answer was Thor, and with good reason.

"I’m going to pick Thor because Thor, we’re picking up his story from the end of Thor: Ragnarok and at the end of that film as any fan would know his home planet of Asgard is destroyed, and so the character is in new territory so to speak, because his past has been torn away from him to a degree."

He went on to say that it’s similar to Steve Rogers situation when his story was picked up in Captain America: Winter Soldier. That’s also when Anthony and Joe did their first Marvel film.

"Cap was in a place where we were very much catching him up in the modern world and seeing what that meant to him, and figuring out how you move a character that far forward and that far away from where they started back during the 40s."

How does that relate to Captain America? Well, Thor is going through an intense transformation and it’s going to shape who he is forever. Not that any of us can change the past, but this will almost remove him from his completely.

"So I think in Thor we have similar opportunities with that character in this movie is that he’s going through a radical transformation and he’s moving forward in a way where he can never go back, and that’s always a fun place to be with a character as a storyteller."

Edited by tv echo
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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

If the writers are looking for crossover ideas, or who should write them, they really, really, really, really, really, really should reach out to Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Alan Burnett, and their team of writers. 

I am still baffled that WB hasn't attempted to put them in charge of the Arrowverse or DCEU. They launched and sustained a whole animated universe that is 10x better then better then what we have now. Timm isn't perfect but his good outweighs his bad imo. Or Greg Weisman.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)
1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Well, Thor is going through an intense transformation and it’s going to shape who he is forever. Not that any of us can change the past, but this will almost remove him from his completely.

"So I think in Thor we have similar opportunities with that character in this movie is that he’s going through a radical transformation and he’s moving forward in a way where he can never go back, and that’s always a fun place to be with a character as a storyteller."

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  The implication from the trailer was that Thanos would end up wiping out the remainder of the Asgardians, and I know there's been speculation about Loki being killed off.  For one, I don't like the idea of them writing Thor into the Superman "last survivor of his race" scenario (although I suppose theoretically Sif might still be out there somewhere).  And secondly, that kind of fate for the remainder of the Asgardians really ends up souring the hopeful note that Thor: Ragnarok ended on.  And that makes me sad.  I don't like that idea. :(

I know that Chris Hemworth has recently said that he's finished as far as he knows, although he said that he and Taika Waititi have talked about ideas for a possible Thor 4.  So it may end up being a moot point.  I just kind of hate to see them go that way.

Edited by Starfish35
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statsgirl

statsgirl

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

We're not even talking about a series ending here, but the first part of a season, so it makes no sense to me. Either Arrow can't go on for another 15 episodes, or you know that the death is meaningless. Added to that, Oliver's always been the anchor of these things and for as long as Arrow is on air, I don't see it changing. 

Major Crimes in the fifth last episode

Spoiler

killed off the lead character, Sharon Rayder and the show was never as good again.  The hole she left was apparent in every scene. 

The only season I won't be buying.

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catrox14

catrox14

19 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Major Crimes in the fifth last episode

  Reveal hidden contents

killed off the lead character, Sharon Rayder and the show was never as good again.  The hole she left was apparent in every scene. 

The only season I won't be buying.

Spoiler

 

Was that Madame Airlock?

 

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Its kind of funny, in a sad way. When Kara started giving Livewire a "I know theres good in you, I think you are deep down not a bad person" speech, it immediately reminded me of the pep talks Barry used to give Snart back in The Flash, and how that didn't exactly end well (I mean, it worked and he did become a better person, which is great but he also sacrificed himself and tragically blew into smithereens, which was less great), so maybe Kara should be careful. Then the episode came to its climax, and...

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Unrounded finals from RJK at SpottedRatings.com:

Quote

.................................. L+SD .......... L+3 ...
Supergirl .................. 0.567 .......... 0.893 ...
Valor ........................ 0.199 .......... 0.262 ...

The Flash ................ 0.843 .......... 1.341 ...
Black Lightning ........ 0.773 .......... 1.156 ...

Riverdale ................. 0.506 .......... 0.863 ...
Dynasty ................... 0.189 .......... 0.260 ...

Supernatural ........... 0.602 
Arrow ...................... 0.459

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Chaser

Chaser

Actual discussion by The Flash writers:

"Guys we got to write a storyline for Iris."

"Yeah, Yeah for sure...any ideas?"

Silence, silence, silence

"Ok lets pretend she has a mask."

BRILLIANT

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Guest

Guest

"She got her man, that's really the only thing she ever cared about."

TRAGIC.

I usually love CP but that whole thing was yikes and not just that part I quoted.

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WindofChange

WindofChange

(edited)

Interviewer: You don't seem happy that your wedding didn't happen

CP: Well... It did happen... It just didn't happen the way I planned for it to happen. And some very lovely friends of ours... (sounds bitter) joined our wedding. And got married before us and had a wedding after us too on their own show! Umm but Iris is handling it with grace. She's got her man that's only the thing she's ever cared about is getting Barry and getting to spend the rest of her life with him in whatever form that looks like even if it's on the side of the road... She's just happy they're married.

Edited by WindofChange
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lemotomato

lemotomato

Yikes.

1 minute ago, WindofChange said:

CP: Well... It did happen... It just didn't happen the way I planned for it to happen. And some very lovely friends of ours... (sounds bitter) joined our wedding. And got married before us and had a wedding after us too on their own show! Umm but Iris is handling it with grace.

I think we have different ideas on what that means, CP.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

How is being bitter and ungrateful over a gift not being on their wedding registry "handling it with grace." Girl, don't do this. I'm disappointed. Sigh.

Edited by Guest
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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

1 minute ago, WindofChange said:

Interviewer: You don't seem happy that your wedding didn't happen
CP: Well... It did happen... It just didn't happen the way I planned for it to happen. And some very lovely friends of ours... (sounds bitter) joined our wedding. And got married before us and had a wedding after us too on their own show! Umm but Iris is handling it with grace. She's got her man that's only the thing she's ever cared about is getting Barry and getting to spend the rest of her life with him in whatever form that looks like even if it's on the side of the road... She's just happy they're married.

Ouch. Really, CP? 

Technically, B&I said their vows first, so maybe at the same time, but not before them? Also, blame The Flash writers for not giving B&I a reception, not Arrow/Olicity. It's not like Felicity went, "Hey, Oliver, marry me now and next week, let's have a reception, okay? And Barry and Iris, you can't do anything else to celebrate your love/marriage." 

And pretty sure Iris didn't care about getting Barry in season 1. Just saying. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Just now, ruby24 said:

She's not saying anything in there that the majority doesn't agree with. I know you guys don't want to admit that, but it's true. 

That Iris getting her man is the only thing that matters? Nah, The Flash makes that pretty clear, which is why I guess she’s upset about not getting the full wedding. 

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