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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Sakura12

Sakura12

8 minutes ago, Delphi said:

I just got caught up on legends.   Love two creepy episodes in a row.   If they choose to go supernatural forever I'm for it. 

Though,  if someone wants to help me out I'd be grateful.   Did Darhks power work on Thea before she was cured because if not I'm wondering how it worked on Sara,  who didn't have the benefit of... magic flowers.  Her soul was regained but she still has Lazarus blood lust,  I assume it would have to be worse than Thea's was. 

When Sara rejoined the LoA in the 1950's for 2 years she took some herbs that Ra's had that cured her bloodlust.

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Trini

Trini

(edited)

Grant shares some crossover info:

Quote

"It's a comic book wedding, so it's classic," teased Gustin. "It's beautiful. But obviously, things aren't going to be perfect. Something's going to happen. But it's classical, it's classic beautiful wedding. It's cool."

According to Arrowverse set designer Tyler Bishop Harron, the set design team built a massive cathedral set for the crossover, a fact that Gustin, too, mentioned during our interview.

"It's on this set too that... they told me how much they spent to build it but I'm not going to repeat that," said Gustin. "It was in a warehouse soundstage, it wasn't a real soundstage. It was in this warehouse that they built a church. It was insane. You thought you were in a real church and it was beautiful. I'm excited for everyone to see it."

Quote

"I didn't really think about it that way," said Gustin. "We've been leading up to this wedding for a long time. It's, in some ways, fitting that it's part of the crossover because it's also a little strange that we've been leading up to this wedding and it's not even on The Flash. It's technically on a different show."

But it's also how [The Flash] started, this show started on Arrow. We've consistently had these crossovers and we're bringing so many characters together for this wedding, it's kind of fitting that it happens somewhere else.

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/the-flash/268809/the-flash-season-4-grant-gustin-previews-barryiris-wedding

Edited by Trini
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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

Finally watched Flash's Girls Night Out.

I didn't hate it but it was very very very "Meh." Like one of those fairly unexciting filler episodes. Nothing about it thrilled me very much not even drunkBarry.

I think because there was so much excitement around it (and with my precious Felicity guest starring) I was expecting it to deliver something like Arrow 604 or Legends 304 but with an Iris focus. It obviously delivered NOTHING like those two episodes.

I really like Iris, even though I wouldn't call myself a huge fan of hers the way I am of Felicity and Ray and I felt really let down after getting my perfect Felicity episode and perfect Ray episode last week! I would have liked a smashing Iris episode this week.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

4 hours ago, leopardprint said:

Even though they did spend a lot of time talking about Cayden James, a man but more of a work related man, they still talked about jobs and work! Work! 

Yeah, I don't know why Felicity completely forgets accepted social norms when she goes to Central City. I'm pretty sure a random, public restaurant is not a typical venue for a stripper, not even in Vegas. She did other odd stuff that I can't even remember because this episode was fairly boring, except drunk Barry. There was totally enough room on that door. 

1

Per Mythbusters it was a question of buoyancy, not room.  BUT if they'd put their life vests underneath, then both could have survived.  

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

To be an evil female doppelganger of a good heroine, you must: 

1.  Wear tight black leather.
2.  Don't like the color pink.
3.  Talk in short phrases, like Killer Frost: "I used to work with a god. Over it."*

(* Reminiscent of Joss Whedon-speak, like Dark Willow: "Bored now.")

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

'Girls Night Out' on 'The Flash' Had One Glaring Flaw 
Vanessa Firth    November 08, 2017
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/the-flash/girls-night-out-on-the-flash-h-66711.aspx

Quote

We know that Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker), Iris (Candice Patton), Cecile (Danielle Nicolet) and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) are strong women. You've written them that way for years, so acknowledge it. Their ups and their downs, their victories and their defeats have all served to flesh out complex characters that define #feminism...all without ever having to actually employ cheerleaders to lead us in a "F-E-M-I-N-I-S-T" chant from the sidelines. Have faith in the personas you've created. More importantly, have a little respect for the audience's intellect. Show us a fierce woman and we'll connect the dots from there.
*  *  *
Just as importantly, don't hamstring our heroes with a bad idea. Going up against Amunet (Katee Sackhoff) and her lackeys with some souped-up guns and an attorney on overwatch? Probably not for the best. Going in with the Boot and the CCPD on call? Yes, please. 

Speaking of Amunet, what's with her escape? Killer Frost/Caitlin had her pigeonholed, removed from all available sources of alnico. And yet, the leader of the meta underground was allowed to take her impression of Doctor Who's Missy and quickstep off-screen. Sure, her arrest could have posed a few complications -- she knows Dr. Snow's alter ego after all -- but she'd also be safely locked away in Iron Heights (or as secure as one can be with a crooked warden in play.) Instead, Sackhoff's murderous villain is free to marshal a vendetta against our heroes.
*  *  *
It's mistakes like these that cause series to relegate women to the background. With a failure on their hands, will the Arrowverse ever give its heroines a chance for another team up? Could The Flash masterminds have spit-shined that plot before delivery? ....

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Heroic Homecoming: Danny Elfman Returns to Score Justice League
Tim Beedle   November 8th, 2017
http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/11/08/heroic-homecoming-danny-elfman-returns-to-score-justice-league

Quote

Back in 1988, the superhero genre as a whole was still pretty new in film. That’s definitely not the case now. Did that change how you set about writing the score for Justice League?
Well, yeah. Styles change over the years. Back then I took it into what Tim used to call “the march.” Well, we wouldn’t do that now. That would be corny by today’s standards. So, I wrote stylistically how I would write now, not then, except for a few moments where Joss [Whedon] was very consciously like, “Let’s do the old thing right here!”

There are definitely nods throughout the movie to previous successors. I do use Hans Zimmer’s Wonder Woman theme a couple of times. Joss loves including a few of those moments in the music that you know the fans are going to love. So, there’s maybe, MAYBE one moment that’s dead-on 1989 Batman.

Is it a difficult thing to do as a composer to add existing themes into an original score? And does it push your score in a certain direction?
No, because they’re self-conscious moments. We’re doing this moment here, and that moment there, but that still leaves 100 minutes of music. The bigger challenge in Justice League was that I had all of these characters and I couldn’t just go and start writing big themes for everybody because you can only do so many themes in one movie. How to fit that puzzle together was really the tricky part.

I came up with two heroic themes, one which was just an overall Justice League theme and one which was a team theme. I’m using that more when the team is coming together. I also have an “Anti-Hero Theme” as well as a Steppenwolf theme. But then I tried to provide really simple little hooks for Cyborg, Flash and Aquaman, without going too far. There’s a certain point where you just get a mess of themes, and that’s just going to be a nightmare. So, I tried to simplify those characters to just a few notes, so that there’s something recognizable, and I tried to keep my new thematic action more involved around the entire group as a whole, so it didn’t get too fragmented. But it was still quite a huge jigsaw puzzle of how to do that in a way that wasn’t too messy and served the purposed of the film. So yeah, Justice League was really a challenging film, but I like challenges.
*  *  *
The one song that’s been released so far, “Hero’s Theme,” certainly sounds rousing and uplifting, but it ends with some pretty unique sounds that are almost discordant. Were you signifying anything there, or did you just think it sounded cool?
Oh yeah, that was just me having fun. “Hero’s Theme” is an overall heroic theme for the Justice League, and as I mentioned, there’s also a secondary theme, which represents the team. That’s how the logos start right at the beginning of the film.
*  *  *
We’re giving fans their first chance to hear another one of your songs from the score, “Friends and Foes” (above). This is one of the songs that incorporates an earlier, very recognizable DC theme. So why bring back some of these earlier themes in your score for Justice League?
With Justice League, they’re really launching this franchise as a unique franchise—it’s their own world. Often when a franchise is relaunched, they start all of the music from scratch. Most of the time, that’s a decision that may not harm the financial success of the franchise, but it definitely takes away from the longevity or durability of a franchise. The franchise that I always come back to again and again is Star Wars. It’s the oldest musical franchise we have and wisely, it’s the one time they’ve decided not to do that when they relaunched it. It was a really smart thing. Fans, when they hear little bits of the John Williams themes, even when they’re in an offshoot like Rogue One, it provides this great historical context that ties everything together in a really satisfying way.

My feeling coming into Justice League was that DC had great things that were uniquely theirs and to not acknowledge them was to let go of little jewels. To deny that is really just denying the fans. To a fan, hearing that little connection is a heartwarming thing. It gives you some adrenaline and excitement. It’s fun!

Edited by tv echo
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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

My ideal female focused episode is one where they dont make it obvious that it is a female focused episode, and one that especially pisses off the haters. I did like the Felicity centric episode on Arrow last week, it had a perfect balance. And yes more could be done specifically on Arrow. You dont need to eliminate the men, just let the women shine and be at the forefront of the story line.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Just now, tofutan said:

So it appears Allison Mack, formerly of Smallville, made it to the dailymail/gossip papers. 

I read it but, not from UK and always get them confused. Is the Daily Mail a reliable paper or more along the line of Tabloids?

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leopardprint

leopardprint

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I read it but, not from UK and always get them confused. Is the Daily Mail a reliable paper or more along the line of Tabloids?

It's not so affectionately known as the "Daily Fail" so make of that what you will.

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JamieLynn832002

JamieLynn832002

The problem I had with Girls Night Out is that all of the women behaved in monumentally stupid ways. I feel like your #feminism is failing when every time any of them decided to do anything, it was incredibly dangerous and stupid to even attempt. All of them have been shown to be intelligent so why was the display of the feminism finding myriad ways to risk their lives with absolutely no plan to actually defeat the villains? And ultimately everyone escaped so the message reads more as "women can't do it without men" than feminism.

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Delphi

Delphi

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

I get that in real life its them trying to find a costume that works.   But my head canon is that Sara is a bit girly and when she doesn't have captain things to do her and Gideon spend their time coming up with new costumes for her. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

23 minutes ago, tofutan said:

It appears that like a week ago the New York Times ran an article on the cult Allison is known to belong to. And Daily Mail now claims to have identified her as one of the big power players inside that cult. 

I guess my question is about AM in particular. NYT didn't identify her in their article and the Daily Mail seemed to only get their info (on AM) from that one blogger.

I know she's involved in this cult, which is sad. I now know this cult is doing some very shitty stuff (before now it was still a cult but rather mild/small), which is upsetting. 

I'm wondering if she's a victim (no matter how high ranking) or culpable. Is the story with her brand legit or something Frank Report (only) is claiming etc.

All in all this is very sad and disturbing and I hate that AM is wrapped up in it. Maybe I'm just struggling to accept it.

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WindofChange

WindofChange

11 hours ago, Trini said:

"It's a comic book wedding, so it's classic," teased Gustin. "It's beautiful. But obviously, things aren't going to be perfect. Something's going to happen. But it's classical, it's classic beautiful wedding. It's cool."

Grant... that is a terribly worded response lmao

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JJ928

JJ928

16 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Well, Iris is ok marrying Barry and a version of him went on to try to kill her so....

But Savitar was a time remnant from a possible timeline, kinda like 2046 legends AU ep. It wasn't actually this timelines Barry, kinda like Siren isn't really LL because she's not the same E1 Laurel. I think it's a mess but it's not quite the same as KF, who is actually this timelines/earth Caitlin. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)
On 11/8/2017 at 0:38 PM, tv echo said:

--Did The Flash writers forget that Felicity and Caitlin were once friends in S1? Because they sure acted like strangers in this episode.

I'm sure they did (forget, that is), but I suppose it could be argued that their friendship was pre-Flashpoint, and Felicity and Caitlin weren't friends post-Flashpoint.  

In other words, blame Barry. :)

Edited by Starfish35
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I already feel sorry for Sue...

Spoiler Room: Scoop on Grey's Anatomy, Blacklist, Supergirl and more
Natalie Abrams   November 9, 2017
http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/09/spoiler-room-greys-blacklist-supergirl/

Quote

Andrew Kreisberg hinted there’s a future fun hook up for Alex on Supergirl. Any scoop on that? — Marah
It’s probably not what you’re expecting, but it’s something I previously thought would be fun — if that gives you any hints. “There’s going to be — I can’t say relationship or even a romance — but Alex is going to have a fun interaction in the upcoming episodes that’s funny and sweet, but also speaks to the Maggie story, which we love,” EP Andrew Kreisberg teases.
*  *  *
Now that we’ve met Ralph Dibny on The Flash, will we meet Sue? — Alicia
His famed comic book love interest could appear on the show, but you’ll have to be patient. “We want to wait to get to know Ralph and exhaust Ralph where he is before he meets Sue,” executive producer Andrew Kreisberg says. “Ralph and Sue are endgame, as the kids like to say, so you don’t want to bring her in too soon. But that’s definitely in our plan. Not for this year, but we’ll see.”
*  *  *
Any particular time periods we’ll see this season on Legends of Tomorrow? — Dhara
Next week, the team ventures to 1930s Hollywood, where they cross paths with a time-displaced Helen of Troy, who “renders all of our guys useless,” says EP Phil Klemmer, who also teases that we’ll soon see a no-time-period episode. “We blow through our production money and then some with our crossover, so it’s the infamous bottle [episode], which always turns out to be great, but it’s also driven by, ‘How can we do it all on our standing sets for as cheaply as possible?” Fellow EP Marc Guggenheim likens the episode to Star Trek: The Next Generation‘s “Cause and Effect” hour. “It’s our Groundhog Day episode, but [Zari] is at the center of it,” Guggenheim says.

Edited by tv echo
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I can't help compare The Flash's take on #Feminism to what happened on this week's Riverdale.  The Flash set up a situation where the guys weren't available but on Riverdale, Veronica and Josie and the rest of the Pussycats saw something going down and just went and took care of it on their own.  (Gloriously).  That show let them just be who they are while The Flash had to make it a very special episoe and then still loaded it full of fail.  

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shadow2008

shadow2008

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I guess my question is about AM in particular. NYT didn't identify her in their article and the Daily Mail seemed to only get their info (on AM) from that one blogger.

I know she's involved in this cult, which is sad. I now know this cult is doing some very shitty stuff (before now it was still a cult but rather mild/small), which is upsetting. 

I'm wondering if she's a victim (no matter how high ranking) or culpable. Is the story with her brand legit or something Frank Report (only) is claiming etc.

All in all this is very sad and disturbing and I hate that AM is wrapped up in it. Maybe I'm just struggling to accept it.

UK's The Sun has a screenshot of Allison Mack's dropbox where her slaves are told to upload their collateral (aka blackmail-worthy material) at the start of every month. I loved Chloe on Smallville, but seeing that Allison hasn't really been all that relevant since the show ended, it's hard to believe that they would make it all up. If they were just trying to get some clicks, they would be shooting for a bigger name, IMO.  

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
3 minutes ago, shadow2008 said:

UK's The Sun has a screenshot of Allison Mack's dropbox where her slaves are told to upload their collateral (aka blackmail-worthy material) at the start of every month. I loved Chloe on Smallville, but seeing that Allison hasn't really been all that relevant since the show ended, it's hard to believe that they would make it all up. If they were just trying to get some clicks, they would be shooting for a bigger name, IMO.  

She isn't a huge star but she is the biggest name known that is a part of it.  And I doubt it's all made up since from all I've heard she's been a true believer, but some of the details of her involvement might not be what they are making it out to be.   

Edited by BkWurm1
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Featherhat

Featherhat

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I can't help compare The Flash's take on #Feminism to what happened on this week's Riverdale.  The Flash set up a situation where the guys weren't available but on Riverdale, Veronica and Josie and the rest of the Pussycats saw something going down and just went and took care of it on their own.  (Gloriously).  That show let them just be who they are while The Flash had to make it a very special episoe and then still loaded it full of fail.  

Hell, LOT immediately after it had Sara kicking ass as always, and further Amaya/Zari bonding which looks like it's going to be season long theme and not a gimmick, and Zari has been on the show 3 episodes not over 3 years unlike Iris and Caitlin. Felicity and Alena going on a mission together without Oliver (and not because he didn't want to be there) was a better take on "#feminism" than The Flash's answer to it. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

‘The Flash’ 4.05 Recap: “That’s Not How Feminism Works”
Josh Zyber - November 9, 2017
https://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/flash-405-recap/

Quote

It’s time for Iris’ bachelorette party, and Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards) pays a visit from Star City to celebrate. Caitlin is hesitant to go out and party, but they talk her into it. Joe’s fiancée Cecile gets invited as well, which speaks to how few female characters this show has. Doesn’t Iris have any work friends from the Picture News who’d go out with her? For that matter, does she even still work there? Was that addressed at some point?
*  *  *
... The magnet grabs all of Amunet’s metal pellets (but none of the other metal in the warehouse), allowing Frost to defeat her easily. Iris then has to stop Frost from killing Amunet. Rather than capture her, they make an inexplicable conscious decision to let her run away and bother them another day.
*  *  *
This is a pretty weak episode on the whole. The girl-power theme is pushed so hard and so clumsily that I’m surprised this episode is actually credited to a couple of women as writers. It feels like something a man would write while bragging about being a great feminist. More than one character speaks the phrase “#feminism” unironically. Who does that? Who says “hashtag” anything out loud?

The most galling part would have to be the Joanie storyline, which spouts some token platitudes about a woman’s right to find empowerment in any career she chooses, but ultimately ridicules the character for being foolish and ends with the regressive message that being a sex object is inherently degrading.

I like Katee Sackhoff and think she would normally be a fine addition to this show, but her character is just kind of dumb.

Also, Felicity does practically nothing the whole episode except crack a couple jokes. Aside from the desperate need to have another female character on screen, her presence in this episode serves little purpose.

Edited by tv echo
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

I'm wondering when the CW midseason schedule is going to be released.  Last year they announced it on Nov. 16, the same day they announced that No Tomorrow and Frequency were not getting back orders.

They made the announcement about Dynasty (got a back nine order) and Valor (not getting back order) yesterday, so I'm thinking it could be anytime now?

Edited by Starfish35
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bijoux

bijoux

42 minutes ago, shadow2008 said:

UK's The Sun has a screenshot of Allison Mack's dropbox where her slaves are told to upload their collateral (aka blackmail-worthy material) at the start of every month. I loved Chloe on Smallville, but seeing that Allison hasn't really been all that relevant since the show ended, it's hard to believe that they would make it all up. If they were just trying to get some clicks, they would be shooting for a bigger name, IMO.  

Really, what do you have to go through in your life to give people over stuff they can blackmail you with? I just feel sorry for everyone who got sucked in.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

47 minutes ago, shadow2008 said:

UK's The Sun has a screenshot of Allison Mack's dropbox where her slaves are told to upload their collateral (aka blackmail-worthy material) at the start of every month. I loved Chloe on Smallville, but seeing that Allison hasn't really been all that relevant since the show ended, it's hard to believe that they would make it all up. If they were just trying to get some clicks, they would be shooting for a bigger name, IMO.  

That's horrible. ??

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Sakura12

Sakura12

33 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Hell, LOT immediately after it had Sara kicking ass as always, and further Amaya/Zari bonding which looks like it's going to be season long theme and not a gimmick, and Zari has been on the show 3 episodes not over 3 years unlike Iris and Caitlin. Felicity and Alena going on a mission together without Oliver (and not because he didn't want to be there) was a better take on "#feminism" than The Flash's answer to it. 

They also had Nate stand by Sara and told Rip they would do whatever their Captain decides. 

If you have to mention #feminism it's not feminism. They shouldn't need a special episode for the women, the women should have the same type of episode as the men. 

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shadow2008

shadow2008

49 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Really, what do you have to go through in your life to give people over stuff they can blackmail you with? I just feel sorry for everyone who got sucked in.

My guess is cults like NXIVM are using their self-improvement programs to lure people in. It probably starts off harmless with a list of tasks that is relatively easy to complete. This gives recruits a false sense of success and gets them hooked, so that by the time the truly crazy stuff starts, they have already become so indoctrinated that they believe there's a method to the madness and you just need to trust in the process.

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LeighAn

LeighAn

To me when you get to the point that your are black mailing, branding, punishing and treating people like slaves you cross the victim label into the culpable label. I can't really feel sorry for Allison Mack any more then I feel sorry for Tom Cruise who also used his celebrity status to protect and legitimise an evil dangerous cult. 

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

This Allison Mack thing is just so bizarre. Usually when I hear about the crappy turns the life of an an actor I used to like, it involves drugs or mental health problems, not deranged rape cults. Its a twisted mix of tragic and just weird.

Really, I thought the Flash episode was ok, but the #feminism stuff was just embarrassing. It was handled with the subtly of a Supergirl episode doing political commentary. Like, instead of just showing the women being awesome, lets keep TALKING about it! And its really annoying because I thought this season of Flash was actually doing better than usual on its female characters (well, Iris at least) and had generally had a jump in quality. Hopefully we move on from this ASAP.  

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statsgirl

statsgirl

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

Really, what do you have to go through in your life to give people over stuff they can blackmail you with? I just feel sorry for everyone who got sucked in.

I heard an interview a couple of weeks ago with a woman who was in it and she described it as being asked for something true about yourself that you wouldn't tell in order to prove your loyalty and subservience.

I attended a workshop today on "mattering", the idea of how much you matter to others and how much you're affected by it.  I can understand why someone who really wanted to matter to a group would do things he/she wouldn't do ordinarily.

(I wore my Stargate earrings and no one recognized them.  I know someone from here would have.)

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Arrowverse 4-Way Crossover Synopsis Confirms [ Spoiler ] Will Be a Cool Ally

Quote

“Crisis on Earth X”: Barry and Iris’s wedding brings the gang together, but things go awry when villains from Earth-X attack the ceremony. All of the superheroes band together with help from their super friends like Citizen Cold (guest star Wentworth Miller), The Ray (guest star Russell Tovey, Quantico), Felicity Smoak, Iris West and Alex Danvers to take on their most formidable villains yet. Earth’s mightiest heroes – Green Arrow, Supergirl, The Flash and White Canary – lead their teams into battle to save the world.”

Edited by Starfish35
I wish TVLine wouldn't put [Spoiler] in their titles
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Trini

Trini

23 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

“Crisis on Earth X”: Barry and Iris’s wedding brings the gang together, but things go awry when villains from Earth-X attack the ceremony. All of the superheroes band together with help from their super friends like Citizen Cold (guest star Wentworth Miller), The Ray (guest star Russell Tovey, Quantico), Felicity Smoak, Iris West and Alex Danvers to take on their most formidable villains yet. Earth’s mightiest heroes – Green Arrow, Supergirl, The Flash and White Canary – lead their teams into battle to save the world.”

Kind of an awkward couple of sentences just to get everyone's names/code names in there. I wish it previewed a little bit more of the plot.

I really hope this '4-part movie' ends up getting a special DVD relaese, or all the episodes get on all the series' DVD/Blu-ray sets.

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