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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes


ArctisTor
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I'm really surprised how similar Arrow and LoT's break down were.  

20 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

This weeks demo breakdown for supehero shows

Tuesday and Wednesday may be majorly affected by World Series.

 

“Arrow” (CW)

Women 18-34: 0.4/2
Men 18-34: 0.5/2
Women 18-49: 0.5/2
Men 18-49: 0.7/2

 

“D.C.’s Legends of Tomorrow” (CW)
Women 18-34: 0.4/2
Men 18-34: 0.4/2
Women 18-49: 0.5/2
Men 18-49: 0.7/3

 

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6 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Oddly, while Ray did not work at all with Felicity, he works really well playing against characters like Mick and Snart.  I think we saw a little bit of that in Broken Arrow when he was playing against GrumpyCat!Oliver.  

(This is all IMO of course - your mileage may vary.)

Just chiming in to say I pretty much agree. Ray and Felicity worked for me on a platonic level, but I think I always like BR as someone's friend or especially an odd-couple buddy rather than as a LI. To be truthful, "Broken Arrow" is actually my favorite episode of season 3, partially because I actually got to enjoy Ray and Oliver for once as the perfect humorous balance to all the very serious drama going on. (The depressing and ridiculous LOA and LP stuff in 4x20 puts it in second place for me.)

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Felicity's debut in Vixen 204 - here's the youtube version of producer's preview and also the link to watch full episode...

Vixen | Inside Vixen S2: Episode 4 | CW Seed
Published on Nov 4, 2016, by CW Seed

Watch full episode of Vixen 2x04 here (6 min.):
http://www.cwseed.com/shows/vixen/s2-episode-four/?play=2c3513f5-7bcf-4717-8ffa-927f1d33d894

From producer's preview:
MG: "We get to see the animated incarnation of Felicity Smoak. That was probably the character who, uh, I got the most requests on. Everyone wanted to see the animated version of Felicity. ... She basically helps Kuasa and Mari in what is essentially a heist episode. Also an opportunity for us to see Laurel Lance and Ray Palmer as Black Canary and the Atom. ... It was so great. I mean, obviously, every single cast member who we asked to participate said 'yes.' Um, and everyone was game for it. I think they were kind of, uh, tickled to do an animated version. One of the fun parts of the project was the - uh, when the designs came in for each of the characters, I sent them to the actors so they could see what their animated incarnations looked like and I think they really got a kick out of it."

From 204 (partial transcript):
Mari (over comms): "Felicity? This is how I talk to you, right?"
Felicity (over comms): "Loud and clear. Speaking of clear, the house is empty."
Mari (over comms): "We got to the big lion thing. Where do we go next?"
Felicity (over comms): "Around the back. Wow. This place is big. Keep an eye out for -"
Mari (over comms): "Guard dogs."
Felicity (over comms): "How'd you know?"
Mari: "Good doggies. (Enters house) This room must be worth a fortune."
Kuasa: "Forget that. Look for the totem."
Mari: "There. (Kuasa knocks her back) What are you doing?!"
Kuasa: "I'm sorry, little sister. But you have no idea what it feels like to be this weak, and now I'll never have to again."
Felicity (over comms): "Uh, guys? Everything okay out there?"
Kuasa: "Umm, the spirit totem was always meant to be mine. But I guess I'll have to settle for this one."
Mari: "You lied to me!"
Kuasa: "I couldn't do this on my own."
(Mari and Kuasa fight, destroying and flooding the room.)
Felicity: "And... there goes the security system."
(Mari and Kuasa continue to fight outside, when police cars drive up to the mansion.)
Kuasa: "I'll let you handle them." (Runs off)
Mari (to two guard dogs): "Sic 'em." (Chases down street after Kuasa.)
(Kuasa is suddenly grabbed and lifted up into the air by Ray in his Atom suit.)
Ray: "Hey there, I'm the Atom. But you can call me Plan B. Turns out your sister doesn't trust you as much as you thought."
Mari: "Better hold on tight. She's slippery."
Ray: "C'mon. All this leading edge tech and you don't think I'd make it waterproof?"
(Kuasa gets loose and drops to ground, but Laurel as Black Canary enters and knocks her down with her staff.)
Laurel: "Sit down. Stay awhile."
Kuasa: "Looks like you won again, little sister. So now what?"
Mari: "Now you help us. Like you promised. Eshu killed our father and destroyed our home. You want revenge? Well, I do too. Even if I have to work with you. You have the water totem, which means we need your help to stop him."
Kuasa: "You will all fight him?"
(Ray and Laurel nod.)
Mari: "And we'll win. Together."
Felicity (over comms): "Hey, guys. I hate to break up the family reunion, but we've got a problem. Your fire guy's in Detroit. And he's kinda doing a rampage-y thing."
Mari (to Kuasa): "Avenge your village. Save mine." (Holds hand out.)
(Kuasa takes her hand and stands up, as the sisters clasp hands.)

Edited by tv echo
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On 2/11/2016 at 6:13 PM, FurryFury said:

As for Supergirl, I'm probably the only person in the world who didn't like Maggie, at all (her actress REALLY grates). I'm not sure I want to continue watching. I guess it depends on Mon-El and what they do with him. I miss Max Lord, Jimmy being sidelined is something I like, Cat was fun and the show lost something without her (can't believe I hated her in the pilot), I don't care about Winn, he's dead weight, and while I love Alex and Hank, I definitely don't care about Alex/Maggie and not sure I'll care about Hank and M'gann, or the whole aliens integration plotline.

I'm not crazy about Maggie either. I was so excited about the Alex storyline, and now it's just like... "her?" I'm kind of hoping for a last minute change of plans: Maggie stays with her girlfriend and Alex gets with Lena (I know people have noticed Lena/Kara chemistry, and I don't disagree, but they're not giving Kara a same sex relationship. Alex/Lena could be a compromise).

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Ray: "Hey there, I'm the Atom. But you can call me Plan B. Turns out your sister doesn't trust you as much as you thought."
Mari: "Better hold on tight. She's slippery."
Ray: "C'mon. All this leading edge tech and you don't think I'd make it waterproof?"

What I love about this is that no, he didn't make it waterproof the first time around and it shorted out during his visit to the Flash because of that oversight, lol.  

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On November 4, 2016 at 2:16 PM, way2interested said:

I did like their scene in that flashback in LoT, kind of a like the Curtis/Felicity friendship but a bit more toned down in a good way, but definitely agree with you here. 

I liked Ray and Felicity as platonic friends, but not really in a "give me more of that" type of way.

On November 4, 2016 at 2:19 PM, dtissagirl said:

Imo Routh only has on screen chemistry with men, never ever ever with women.

I think I'm one of the few people here that actually did like him with Kendra.  It was the stupid love triangle with Carter that screwed that up, but without that, I would have liked that pairing.  But I know that's an unpopular opinion. :)

On November 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM, SmallScreenDiva said:

I'm one of the handful of people on this board who thought Ray worked well with Felicity -- minus how they wrote stalker Ray. Still chuckle over the helicopter scene. I actually wouldn't mind seeing BR/EBR in a full-on romcom. But that's just me. 

The helicopter scene was funny, I'll admit that. :)  But other than that, I don't know.  I liked Felicity and Barry, so it's not that they were too much alike.  I'm not sure what it is exactly.

I have this theory that BR works better when he is not playing an alpha male type.  But I don't know if that's accurate.

4 hours ago, Delphi said:

Catching up on Supergirl.   Way to be subtle with your politic jokes, writers.

You decided to give it another chance?

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 ON 11/4/2016 AT 3:16 PM, WAY2INTERESTED SAID:

I think I'm one of the few people here that actually did like him with Kendra.  It was the stupid love triangle with Carter that screwed that up, but without that, I would have liked that pairing.  But I know that's an unpopular opinion. :)

 

Well in the sense that it obvious to me he had no lasting shot as long as there was some Carter out there to swoop in and win the triangle, it absolutely screwed it up.  I thought they were cute together initially, and Ray was an upgrade to dead Carter who was kind of a low level abusive ass, but the show didn't invest much time in their relationship on screen before it was clear Kendra - no matter what she said - just wasn't that invested which killed any of my interest.  

I was a lot more sympathetic to Ray this time and I did completely believe that he loved her, but once the Waverider came to pick them up after the years they'd been stranded together in the 60's is was super clear that Ray was going to get his heart broken.  I didn't think it was bad chemistry so much as awkward to watch Ray clearly more into Kendra than she was him which made the whole thing feel awkward.  

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Turning to the Marvel Superhero Universe for a moment - I haven't seen the new Doctor Strange movie yet (though I've heard it's good), but I did come across this EW article on its post-credits scenes (WARNING: SPOILERS!)...

Doctor Strange: What the post-credits scenes mean
BY DARREN FRANICH Posted November 5 2016 — 11:28 AM EDT
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/05/doctor-strange-what-post-credits-scenes-mean

Edited by tv echo
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7 hours ago, Delphi said:

It didn't feel like the same show.

There are certainly differences since they switched networks, most of them I think have been positive but attempts to fill Calista's absence with Jimmy in charge of Catco and Snapper Carr in charge of reporter Kara and Lena Luthor the new strong, powerful woman handing out advice have been hit or miss.  Lena is great but their scenes come off more like flirting (Think Clex from Smallville) than the fascinating mentor relationship Cat had with both Kara and Supergirl.   As for Jimmy and Snapper, Jimmy is an awkward fit for Publisher but he was an awkward fit as love interest so I view that more as a lateral move (not much loss or gain) and Snapper has not been good...yet, but I see potential once they stop making Kara so terribly inept and Snapper so terribly dismissive (even though it's warranted)

I like Winn at the DEO and I like the new characters introduced.  I don't miss Max Lord (Lena has powerful CEO with secrets covered) but I do not like that the show hasn't explained where he went.  Not so much as a name drop and it's weird after how involved he was last year.  But beyond that and the big hole left by the loss of CF still being figured out, I think the changes have been on the plus side.  

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1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

 I don't miss Max Lord (Lena has powerful CEO with secrets covered) but I do not like that the show hasn't explained where he went.  Not so much as a name drop and it's weird after how involved he was last year.

That's a good point. I don't really miss Max either but considering he helped save the world last season it is a little odd there hasn't been so much as an offhand "and he got bored and moved to California" or something line.

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I just know I am not invested in Supergirl as I was last season. It lacks something right now and I can't figure out what. 

Flash and Arrow are just there for me to watch and wonder when I will quit watching them. 

LoT on the other hand been enjoyable to watch. Like I miss Captain Cold/WM and I hate them using Gorilla as the only strong animal Vixen can use but other than that it has been great so far. I really love Captain Sara Lance and the group dynamic this season. 

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Somehow Supergirl feels more like a two dimensional comic book this season.  The first two episodes being Supes! TeamUp! set the tone and Mon-E;l is taking up a lot of time purely because he comes from the comic books, not because there is yet a purpose to him.  Snapper is a pure caricature.  I do like Winn moving to the DEO though, it's a better place for him than CatCo.  Poor James needs to go somewhere else too before he becomes totally irrelevant. 

It's moved from "must watch" to  "I'll catch up on it sometime" for me.

Radio interview about Steve Ditko, who co-created Doctor Strange and Spiderman and then gave up all rights to them.

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12 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't miss Max Lord (Lena has powerful CEO with secrets covered) but I do not like that the show hasn't explained where he went.  Not so much as a name drop and it's weird after how involved he was last year.  

I have to admit that I forgot Max Lord even existed until your comment because they haven't mentioned him at all. 

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I actually am enjoying Supergirl more this season, but I'm not sure I can put my finger on why, exactly.  Because there are still some major issues.  I think part of the reason it feels like a different show this year is that last year CatCo was a major part of the storylines.  This year, the focus has moved to the DEO and CatCo feels totally irrelevant (and a lot of that is due to losing Calista Flockhart, I think).  

They said in the premiere that Kara wanted to focus more on her life as Kara Danvers this season instead of Supergirl, but so far they've only paid lip service to that.  Kara gets a couple of short scenes an episode with Snapper to remind us, oh yeah, she's still doing that reporter thing (really, really badly), but other than that, it's mostly Supergirl and the DEO.  

James wasn't even in last week's episode, although to be fair this week's episode looks like a major James episode so maybe he was working on that.   The out-of-the-blue termination of the Kara/James relationship was bizarre.  I was never the biggest fan of that ship, but at the same time, after spending an entire season getting them together, I think they deserved a better ending than that.  ("Um, sorry James, I've had a few hours to think about it, and I've realized I'm just not that into you after all.  Sorry?")

I think another reason that it feels different is that they're not, for the moment, focusing quite so much on the Alex/Kara sisters relationship as they did last year.  They're working on putting Alex with Maggie, Hank has his storyline with M'gann, and Kara's storyline for the moment seems to be Mon-El. 

I actually do miss Max Lord, and I do think it's weird that they haven't even mentioned him.  But Lena is taking over his spot (and giving me major Clex flashbacks to Smallville). 

So with all that, I'm not sure why I'm enjoying it more this year.  :)   

Moving Winn to the DEO has helped.  And I think not having Kara pining over James has also helped.  And to be honest, I guess with Cat gone, I really could not care less about CatCo or Kara's reporter dreams, so having the focus moved more to Supergirl and the DEO team works for me.  

I kind of feel like the show is moving toward making Kara/Alex/Hank their version of Arrow's OTA.  The three core characters of the show.  I think they've found a good niche for Winn.  The question is where does that leave James?  I guess that depends on how his Guardian arc works out.

Edited by Starfish35
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32 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I kinda think Jimmy is getting the Laurel treatment.  Decoupled as love interest and tossed quickly into mask.  

I worry about his health.

I've felt that way myself.  If his Guardian arc doesn't work out, I can see him being written out this season, whether they kill him off or just send him back to Metropolis.   And the termination of Kara/James was even more abrupt than what they did with Oliver/Laurel. And I don't remember anyone ever giving any interviews going "yeah, sorry, we just weren't feeling it" about Oliver/Laurel like AK did about Kara/James.  I mean, that may have been the subtext, but they were never that blatant about it.  It's just kind of weird.  

Edited by Starfish35
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On 11/4/2016 at 3:31 PM, arjumand said:

I can't believe I just watched a Legends of Tomorrow episode which

  1. made me cry, and
  2. was better than anything Arrow came up with this season.

It's the first time I really liked Maisie Richardson-Sellers as Vixen, and Nate wasn't annoying either. Even Ray didn't piss me off. What. Is. Happening?

P.S. Can the team come to Central City and unfuck Flashpoint? Please?

Yay! LoT is such a refreshing show from all the repetitive stupidity of the other DCTV shows. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I honestly believe that it is because the LoT writers on the whole are better character writers. Sure they write some pretty ridiculous plots, but their character game has always been strong. I also enjoy that the last few minutes of the episode are sort of devoted to character debriefing.

The relationships between the characters is important to LoT. I'm not sure if that is the case with Arrow or Flash anymore.

I also enjoy that they try to tackle some of the cultural differences & insensitivities that exist in the different time periods. They didn't have to address Slavery but they did.

PS - I hope their end goal of the season is to take care of BA and his irresponsible choices with time. Considering the Flash is their Flagship Hero, I doubt it will happen. But I can't imagine Future BA's secret tapes to Capt. Hunter won't somehow link back to Flashpoint.

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50 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

And I don't remember anyone ever giving any interviews going "yeah, sorry, we just weren't feeling it" about Oliver/Laurel like AK did about Kara/James.  I mean, that may have been the subtext, but they were never that blatant about it.  It's just kind of weird.  

Were Kara and James ever coupled in the comics? That may be the difference. 

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17 minutes ago, kismet said:

Yay! LoT is such a refreshing show from all the repetitive stupidity of the other DCTV shows. I'm glad you enjoyed it

One of the huge things I enjoy about LoT is that the drama comes from outside of the team.  The characters are all well developed individuals (well, jury is still out on Nate) who don't always agree so it's not boring but the real problems don't come from them being dicks to each other.    There's the minor issue here and there between team members, but it's pretty low level stuff that's more entertaining than angsty and usually is quickly resolved in episode.  Even with Stein and Jax keeping something from the rest of the team, it's not hanging over the audience's head like it's going to ruin things when they inevitably find out.  

Since I can watch without constant anxiety that the character dynamics that I love are about to be blown up for PLOT!!! (since the drama comes from outside the team), I can actually enjoy watching it.  It's just fun.  And that makes me willing to forgive its weaknesses.    

3 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Were Kara and James ever coupled in the comics? That may be the difference. 

Yes actually.  Smallville had them even briefly date.  That said, I'm fuzzy on how big a contender he really was.  It's my understanding her love affair with her horse was a bigger deal.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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5 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Were Kara and James ever coupled in the comics? That may be the difference. 

Well, I've been trying to find out the answer to this.  The Wikipedia entries don't mention it at all, but I did run across this, which is kind of hilarious. 

Part 1: http://www.signal-watch.com/2013/01/im-pretty-sure-this-comic-was-implying.html?m=1

Part 2: http://www.signal-watch.com/2013/01/we-continue-to-explore-strange-marriage.html?m=1

Edited by Starfish35
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I thought that the last LoT episode had the potential to be the best DC TV episode this season so far... but then they lost me with the zombies.  Adding the zombie element just made no sense to me and detracted from the emotional resonance of the story. Just my opinion.

Edited by tv echo
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The zombies may not have served much of a purpose, other than just having a baddie for plot reasons, but I can't be mad because it gave us that awesome moment of the slaveholder being eaten by them. That was so great!

ETA: And I say that as someone who is not at all a fan of zombie related movies/tv/comics, etc.

Edited by GirlvsTV
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Spoiler Room: Scoop on Quantico, The Flash, Elementary and more
BY NATALIE ABRAMS • Posted November 4 2016 — 2:30 PM EDT
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/04/spoiler-room-quantico-flash-elementary

Quote

Something new about the Arrowverse crossover? — Benjilau
We know the big bad is The Dominators, who in the comics want to eliminate the threat posed by unpredictable metahumans. So, how will Caitlin, whose powers are just coming to the forefront, feel about that? “The biggest fear for Caitlin and for Team Flash is how powerful they are and how much of an unknown they are,” Danielle Panabaker says of the Dominators. “We’re only getting used to dealing with metahumans with these powers that have generally come from the particle accelerator explosion, or Doctor Alchemy, and those are formulas we’re a little more used to. Having these guys come in from who knows where, the biggest question mark for all of them is starting to figure out how they’re going to battle them.”
*  *  *
Anything on Captain Cold’s return to Legends of Tomorrow? — Briana
As previously teased, Snart will be back in the midseason finale, eventually aligning with Reverse-Flash, Damien Darhk and Malcolm Merlyn to form the Legion of Doom. “It’s the ultimate bad guy team up,” executive producer Greg Berlanti tells me of the latter half of the season. “We just finished the script for an episode that we’ve been tentatively calling ‘Legion of Doom’ that’s all from the bad guys’ perspective.”

Neal McDonough Compares and Contrasts Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow
Russ Burlingame- 10/27/2016
http://comicbook.com/2016/10/27/neal-mcdonoguh-compares-and-contrasts-arrow-and-legends-of-tomor/

Quote

McDonough's Darhk has been played as supremely confident, almost to a fault -- and that's going to continue. Little things like the historical record showing that he already lost in 2016 doesn't change a thing for him.

"Why does he eventually lose?" the actor mused. "That's not necessarily true now. They found a time machine, they picked me up in the '40s and I'm off to the races now. There's no end to Damien Darhk."
*  *  *
Some may remember that last season on Arrow, one of Darhk's big weaknesses was his wife Ruve and their daughter. Their presence was a distraction, and their well-being his greatest concern. Ultimately the loss of Ruve pushed Darhk completely over the edge, and he started trying to bolster his death-fueled powers with nuclear missiles aimed at metropolitan areas.

Of course, in the '40s, he hadn't even met Ruve yet.

"Not having my wife at that point, and not knowing who my wife is -- I don't know that I'm going to get married, I don't know that I'm going to murder hundreds fo thousands of people, none of that stuff -- I don't want to say he's a little more evil, but I also don't have as much to fight for, so I'm more of a loose cannon, which is fun to play," McDonough said.

Edited by tv echo
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I saw Dr. Strange on Saturday. Visually it's a stunning movie. It wasn't my favorite of the Marvel movies, but I give them props for doing something different. 

It made 85 Million at the box office, which makes it beat out Ant-Man. Again a great win for Marvel to make money off characters no one has heard of. I still have hope for Wonder Woman. However if it as the same weak plot as the other 2 DC movies I will proably be waiting for the rest to come out on streaming. 

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Dr. Strange was formulaic as hell. I thought it was greatly overrated and kinda boring TBH. I was pissed at their treatment of female characters, too. Such a waste.

Stinger with Thor and a mention of Loki was the best part for me.

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TV is geared to females far more than movies, unfortunately. I was so disappointed with Rachel McAdams' character being a generic love interest. Feels like MCU movies are going backwards - Pepper was much more competent and proactive, and a bigger part of the first Iron Man movie (this feels like the most appropriate comparison because Dr Strange REALLY reminded me of Tony character-wise).

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8 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I don't really understand why the Marvel movies are having such issues with female characters, Marvel TV is doing a good job on ABC and especially Netflix. 

Right?  I didn't make it past S1 of Daredevil, but I'm LOVING Luke Cage. The female characters are complex as hell and are allowed to fierce, vulnerable, shady, conflicted, and complicated. I think the writing is phenomenal, and LC is the type of gritty Arrow obnoxiously claims to be.

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I could watch a show about Misty and Claire, it was Luke Cage that bored me. He bored me on Jessica Jones as well. Which is why I loved the BTS pic of

of Jessica meeting Misty on the Defenders

. I'm looking forward to that. 

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6 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

That is awesome! Wow.   So excited.  I hope it's on Netflix.  

And I hope they bring Wally back.  Do you guys know? Were there plans to do that before it was cancelled? Or did they never say?

1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:

That'll depend on how much quality Artemis/Wally they give me. :D

Yes!!! Artemis/Wally OTP! :)

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9 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I am thrilled!!!  I love this show.  I hope it also means they re-air the original seasons.  

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

That is awesome! Wow.   So excited.  I hope it's on Netflix.  

And I hope they bring Wally back.  Do you guys know? Were there plans to do that before it was cancelled? Or did they never say?

Yeah, I'm really wondering about Wally too.  He was pretty gone but the speedforce is kind of a get out of jail free card so anything should go.  

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17 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I have actually never watched the last S2 episode because I didn't wanna see what they did to Wally, so I don't KNOW what happened to him la la la denial is awesome.

Oops, sorry.  Lol.  It was well done though.  The show was very good at making the storylines have real emotional weight.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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