S07.E05: HIGH HOPES

[SPLAIN]

On 12/22/2017 at 3:24 AM, CofCinci said:

Check out this deleted scene:

http://www.mtv.com/video-clips/go3eqm/teen-mom-deleted-scene-adoptive-parents

Catelynn would do anything for the biological parents of her hypothetical adopted child. To the moon and back. Bitch can’t even get off the couch and stop her other child from eating shit off the floor. 

Hi all. I have found some time to come and post for a bit in between all this holiday chaos. I tried posting in yesterday, but found it just wasn't going to happen.

I have been thinking about this deleted scene ever since it was linked here by @CofCinci. It truly bothers me that these people, particularly a girl who has nothing going on in her life other than chew the fat, chew her non-existent nails, and lie around getting more fat, can actually stand there on camera and make comments how B&T could not be so busy in life to work around her busy life.

Kim: "It's just aggravating to me because I don't think anyone is THAT busy. We are all busy but I could stop for two hours or a day." Cate interrupts: "That's what I saaaaaaaaid."

Tyler in response: "That's what we said."

Kim's response, the tone with which she said it along with that whiny voice is so repulsive to me. First of all, she is supposed to be the adult in all of this and rather than lend a sympathetic ear, she is offering up words that Tyler would say and in the same attitude he would say them. Second, she has no say-so in this situation. She didn't want anything to do with that child when she was a fetus in Catelynn's uterus. She wanted that adoption to happen. She should not be offering her worthless two cents in on the visitation issue which, frankly, is not an issue at all. They are all making it an issue because B&T are not bowing down to the dates offered by her highness queen of quesadilla and Princess Big Boy.

Kim's words and her emotions in that deleted scene show why those two idiots are acting the way they do. After watching this deleted scene a handful of times, I can see the dynamics a little better and why it is Cate is in a different place now with her attitude towards B&T. Cate at one time seemed to be more understanding of B&T's boundaries. I suppose after a while of hearing Kim offering up her self-serving bias on these visits, hearing Tyler ranting every chance he gets along with what Butch and April dished out, Cate was finally worn down and converted to Tyler's way of thinking and handling of the situation. 

Kim venting about how frustrated and irritated she is about B&T saying they are busy in their lives. It is not her place to say how busy or not busy someone is in their life. What she is able to do in her life should not be compared to anyone else. C&T have no room whatsoever to say anything on this matter. Those two have NOTHING going on in their lives. C&T can easily take jaunts to Puerto Rico or a weekend cabin because they DON'T WORK. They have no clue how it is to be a couple trying to pay off a mortgage through actual hard work at an actual job. These are people who have children. They have lives outside of their work. They aren't sitting around collecting a six figure paycheck while hitting the bong and getting drunk on beer every week with their friends.

I am repeating myself here. As an adopted child, it infuriates me the constant references to Carly as "my kid" and "my child". She is NOT YOUR CHILD. As for Tyler's nonsense about how they should be thankful for what he gave them, I wish I could personally tell this prick where he can shove that sanctimonious attitude of his. In fact, I'd love to personally shove it there myself. You stupid ass prick, when you bestow upon someone a gift, even the gift of life, you are not to lord it over their heads for the remainder of their lives. I hope you never have to give someone a kidney because I can imagine how you would hold that over that person's head:

Tyler: "I gave you a kidney. I should be able to visit you and see your scar anytime I want to because I gave you life!"

Cate and Tyler are in need of mental help. Not for depression. That is not Cate's issue. Both her and her husband need a major wake-up call and an attitude adjustment. I don't see things changing as long as they have the likes of Kim, April, and Butch around. A&B have been pushing this "my kid" agenda since day one. Kim joined later on. Those three are feeding their selfish agenda which is to have access to a child they feel is their grandchild. This is full-on enabling. This is so similar to what is happening in the Edwards/Ryan/Mackenzie camp.

Edited December 23, 2017 by SPLAIN

[hudsbee]

3 hours ago, Kb60 said:

I don't know if you watch the show closely, but it is very obvious to me that Maci has serious issues with alcohol. You can look at her and see how unhealthy she is. I grew up around people like that and can spot an alcoholic a mile away. When you grow up like me it's not hard to spot.

Maci has Polycystic ovarian syndrome which causes thin hair and bad acne. I don't think Maci is the epitome of healthiness but to say she is an alcoholic is a stretch. She does not miss getting the kids up for school and we don't know that she "needs"to drink. Poor choices are different than being an alcoholic. I can look at her ears and tats to see she makes poor choices.  As for binge drinking when she was pregnant with Maverick, I'm doubtful. I think they lied about not knowing she was pregnant for the cameras. Would prefer that people not drink or smoke while pregnant but it is not my decision to make.

[lilmarysunshine]

52 minutes ago, AmyFarrahFowler said:

 

 

Well we all look through our own eyes and see different worlds. Nothing will convince me that this woman doesn't have a problem. I am an opiate addict and my daughter just graduated with her Master's Degree. Unsure what that has to do with anything. 

 

Not trying to be difficult.

Alrighty then. Maci is a hopeless alcoholic and no better than Ryan.

Edited December 23, 2017 by lilmarysunshine

[SPLAIN]

40 minutes ago, hudsbee said:

Maci has Polycystic ovarian syndrome which causes thin hair and bad acne. I don't think Maci is the epitome of healthiness but to say she is an alcoholic is a stretch. She does not miss getting the kids up for school and we don't know that she "needs"to drink. Poor choices are different than being an alcoholic. I can look at her ears and tats to see she makes poor choices.  As for binge drinking when she was pregnant with Maverick, I'm doubtful. I think they lied about not knowing she was pregnant for the cameras. Would prefer that people not drink or smoke while pregnant but it is not my decision to make.

PCOS is what Maci claimed to have to cover up for another trap baby.

Maci may not be an alcoholic, but she is a chronic liar.

20 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

She texts while driving with Bentley in the car. And drinks constantly.

Thanks for saving me from having to respond.

Are those two kids of her still in daycare full-time?

4 hours ago, hudsbee said:

 

Not a huge Maci fan but I think she has done a great job raising Bentley. He is polite, does well in school and sports which requires a lot of parental time and money. Wish she would stop with the ears and tats too.

You do know that Maci had a lot of help raising Bentley, right? She did not do it on her own. She had plenty of people she left Bentley with so she could go out of state to party, chase guys, go on spring break, go to motorcross meets in her quest to find the guy who would marry her. A lot of thanks goes to Jen for caring for that boy.

Edited December 23, 2017 by SPLAIN

[DangerousMinds]

Regardless of whether she ever drinks or not, drinking while texting is extremely dangerous in my view.

[SPLAIN]

10 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Regardless of whether she ever drinks or not, drinking while texting is extremely dangerous in my view.

I know with all the stuff we are throwing out we can get things mixed up. You meant "driving"not  "drinking" although in Maci's case, no doubt she is drinking and texting, too. That would be the safer route than what she was caught doing. In that respect, she can sit her bony ass down and stop being so damn sanctimonious about Bentley needing to be protected from his dad when he apparently cannot be be in safe hands with his own mother driving.

Edited December 23, 2017 by SPLAIN

[DangerousMinds]

Yes, I did mean driving while texting.

[ginger90]

Has anyone read Grace Report? Tyler linked to a story there that did not interest me, but I looked at the Twitter. This woman is pretty funny

(This is not the story Tyler linked)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=j1IGtXlv_z0

[TimeToCancelTM]

48 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Yes, I did mean driving while texting.

Although, drinking and texting isnt a good combo either..lol i speak from personal experience...lol

[hudsbee]

1 hour ago, SPLAIN said:

PCOS is what Maci claimed to have to cover up for another trap baby.

Maci may not be an alcoholic, but she is a chronic liar.

Thanks for saving me from having to respond.

Are those two kids of her still in daycare full-time?

You do know that Maci had a lot of help raising Bentley, right? She did not do it on her own. She had plenty of people she left Bentley with so she could go out of state to party, chase guys, go on spring break, go to motorcross meets in her quest to find the guy who would marry her. A lot of thanks goes to Jen for caring for that boy.

Wow, I am fully aware she had help. I am also aware that she was a single mom at 16 and Bentley turned out well whether people helped or not. Yes, she went out and partied but since when do women have to stop socializing or having fun to be good moms? I wasn't too thrilled that she kept looking for guys to make her happy instead of an education but she was also a teen. Not going to argue since you know her but her skin, hair and even build indicate she has PCOS. 

As for the kids being trap babies, it didn't work with Bentley and Taylor seems happy enough. At least they get out and do things with their kids.

[CofCinci]

Maci isn’t an alcoholic. She’s the type of girlfriend described the ‘Cool Girl’ monologue from GONE GIRL book/movie. Taylor is into binge drinking and tailgating. She’s into binge drinking and tailgating. 

[lezlers]

2 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

PCOS is what Maci claimed to have to cover up for another trap baby.

Maci may not be an alcoholic, but she is a chronic liar.

Thanks for saving me from having to respond.

Are those two kids of her still in daycare full-time?

You do know that Maci had a lot of help raising Bentley, right? She did not do it on her own. She had plenty of people she left Bentley with so she could go out of state to party, chase guys, go on spring break, go to motorcross meets in her quest to find the guy who would marry her. A lot of thanks goes to Jen for caring for that boy.

Just because someone has help, that shouldn't negate the parenting they've done and how their kids turned out.   I have a lot of help too.  A supportive husband who is an equal partner in every way and two sets of grandparents who each take our kids one day a week while we work.  They also take them for a weekend about 4 times a year so my husband and I can get away.  If someone complimented me on how my kids turned out and someone else interjected with "well, you do know she had a lot of HELP, right?" we'd have a problem.

[DangerousMinds]

48 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Maci isn’t an alcoholic. She’s the type of girlfriend described the ‘Cool Girl’ monologue from GONE GIRL book/movie. Taylor is into binge drinking and tailgating. She’s into binge drinking and tailgating. 

And we know how that turned out.

[AmyFarrahFowler]

3 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

Alrighty then. Maci is a hopeless alcoholic and no better than Ryan.

I'm afraid there's a misunderstanding. Nobody is better than the other and that was certainly not what I was conveying. I just find it tragic that Bentley has two parents with substance abuse issues. Yes, he seems to be a great kid and if he's an achiever that can happen regardless of parenting issues. It's an apples and oranges scenario IMO.

[lezlers]

19 minutes ago, SPLAIN said:

I simply pointed out Maci spent an awful lot of time away from her child due to her chronic condition: partying. That means someone else had to do her job of caring for her child. I think of someone like Katie from Teen Mom 3, a true example of single parent who truly did things on her own and figured out that partying had to wait because her priority was her baby. When you do something like bring a baby into the world at the age of 16 years of age, you don't get to throw out I am a single hard-working mom and deserve some time to party. My words to someone like that would be Girl, get your ass into gear and into the books or get a JOB. Only then will you get help with raising that baby.

Not sure why any time a critique of Maci pops ups, the "good mom" card gets thrown out.

 

Apples and oranges scenario. Comparing what a teen girl on this show has done to adults who made responsible choices.

I won't repeat myself. Just see my response above re young girl having baby at 16 years of age.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm genuinely trying to understand.  How I read this was that if you're 16 and have a baby you're expected to do it all on your own with no help or else you're putting your own needs above raising your baby.  But if you're a responsible adult and have a baby, you can have all the help you want and it's totally fine and nothing to be criticized about.   I see it the opposite, actually.  If a teenager has a baby and that child turns out well despite being born to another child,, that's even more commendable than if an adult has a baby when they're emotionally and financially ready to do so and that baby turns out well.   So Maci having family looking after Bentley while she goes out of town for a few days with friends to party shouldn't be looked at as crappy parenting while my leaving my kids with my mom for a few days to go to Vegas with my husband is looked at as totally normal and acceptable.   That's where my confusion lies.   Taking a break for a couple of days from being a teenage parent shouldn't be looked at differently than taking a break for a couple days from being an adult parent (assuming you have the means to do so, which she did.) 

[SPLAIN]

1 hour ago, lezlers said:

I'm not trying to argue, I'm genuinely trying to understand.  How I read this was that if you're 16 and have a baby you're expected to do it all on your own with no help or else you're putting your own needs above raising your baby.  But if you're a responsible adult and have a baby, you can have all the help you want and it's totally fine and nothing to be criticized about.   I see it the opposite, actually.  If a teenager has a baby and that child turns out well despite being born to another child,, that's even more commendable than if an adult has a baby when they're emotionally and financially ready to do so and that baby turns out well.   So Maci having family looking after Bentley while she goes out of town for a few days with friends to party shouldn't be looked at as crappy parenting while my leaving my kids with my mom for a few days to go to Vegas with my husband is looked at as totally normal and acceptable.   That's where my confusion lies.   Taking a break for a couple of days from being a teenage parent shouldn't be looked at differently than taking a break for a couple days from being an adult parent (assuming you have the means to do so, which she did.) 

No, I mean, I won't repeat myself because I don't want to get the mods mad who might take it as an argumentative post. Not that you or I are arguing. : )

What did Maci need to take a break from regarding Bentley? It is the same question I have posed regarding Cate, Kail, Amber, and Jenelle. I will answer my own question. There was nothing Maci was doing during that period of time where she needed any sort of break.  She was living with her parents, having her needs taken care of. A teen girl needs to finish high school (which she did) and continue with either higher education or getting themselves set up with a job. Maci was a minor. She had no business going anywhere and drinking alcohol. I doubt Maci was partying up with only soda. There were several stories (some still online) confirming Maci's underage drinking and even doing beer pong when she was 18 years of age. The drinking age in her state is 21 years.

Edited December 24, 2017 by SPLAIN

[lilmarysunshine]

I absolutely think Maci had no business partying it up when Bentley was younger. I don't know if it is because she's matured or just now with 3 kids she's forced to curtail the Florida party trips or what but I do think there is definitely less of that though she and Taylor took a trip to Vegas where she harangued him about marrying her.

Having said that, Maci's always been the stand up parent when you compare her to RYAN. He only has 2 parents. If one of them is in a position to decide what's best for him, it needs to be her.

[SPLAIN]

6 hours ago, hudsbee said:

Maci has Polycystic ovarian syndrome which causes thin hair and bad acne. .

Smoking like a train and being a chronic drinker will make one have bad skin and thin hair, too.

I imagine those poor kids are inhaling all that second hand smoke in their own home.

[AmyFarrahFowler]

And while being trapped in the car with her.

[Tatum]

5 hours ago, hudsbee said:

Wow, I am fully aware she had help. I am also aware that she was a single mom at 16 and Bentley turned out well whether people helped or not. Yes, she went out and partied but since when do women have to stop socializing or having fun to be good moms? Not going to argue since you know her but her skin, hair and even build indicate she has PCOS. 

 

 

I don't know if Maci has PCOS or not and I don't think that is something that can be diagnosed based on skin, hair and build, anyways. 

 

My skepticism comes from when she said she had PCOS, she also said a number of things about it that weren't true, including the claim that her gyno told her she could skip birth control because she would never get pregnant on her own with PCOS. I absolutely do not believe any doctor told her that. I think she's lying. And if she's lying about that, maybe she's lying about having it in the first place.

 

I'd bet good money Maci went through a time of highly irregular periods, or no periods, either due to hormone changes or low weight or poor nutrition, googled her symptoms and self diagnosed. 

[AmyFarrahFowler]

7 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

Hi all. I have found some time to come and post for a bit in between all this holiday chaos. I tried posting in yesterday, but found it just wasn't going to happen.

I have been thinking about this deleted scene ever since it was linked here by @CofCinci. It truly bothers me that these people, particularly a girl who has nothing going on in her life other than chew the fat, chew her non-existent nails, and lie around getting more fat, can actually stand there on camera and make comments how B&T could not be so busy in life to work around her busy life.

Kim: "It's just aggravating to me because I don't think anyone is THAT busy. We are all busy but I could stop for two hours or a day." Cate interrupts: "That's what I saaaaaaaaid."

Tyler in response: "That's what we said."

 

Kim needs to take a seat. IMO she is no better than Butch. I'm beginning to see what the attraction might have been all of those years ago. Their self important bullshit opinions are identical. Their expectations of strangers are ridiculous. These people really think their opinion matters.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

11 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

Hi all. I have found some time to come and post for a bit in between all this holiday chaos. I tried posting in yesterday, but found it just wasn't going to happen.

Your entire post was great.   Maybe they don't have busy lives but as a mom with two kids working full-time I am overwhelmingly busy.  I am sure B&T are in the same boat.  They make their family and kids a priority and C&T make their revolving door of "passions" theirs so it is easy for them to be flexible.   Ugh. 

[lilmarysunshine]

11 hours ago, Tatum said:

 

I don't know if Maci has PCOS or not and I don't think that is something that can be diagnosed based on skin, hair and build, anyways. 

 

My skepticism comes from when she said she had PCOS, she also said a number of things about it that weren't true, including the claim that her gyno told her she could skip birth control because she would never get pregnant on her own with PCOS. I absolutely do not believe any doctor told her that. I think she's lying. And if she's lying about that, maybe she's lying about having it in the first place.

 

I'd bet good money Maci went through a time of highly irregular periods, or no periods, either due to hormone changes or low weight or poor nutrition, googled her symptoms and self diagnosed. 

As someone with PCOS, I do not for a minute believe she was told not to worry about birth control. No doctor has ever told me that and I had to see a fertility specialist to get pregnant! Particularly because she already had two kids fairly recently. Not only that, birth control helps women with PCOS manage their symptoms so I would think they would encourage it for that if she did not want to be pregnant.

[Tatum]

49 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

As someone with PCOS, I do not for a minute believe she was told not to worry about birth control. No doctor has ever told me that and I had to see a fertility specialist to get pregnant! Particularly because she already had two kids fairly recently. Not only that, birth control helps women with PCOS manage their symptoms so I would think they would encourage it for that if she did not want to be pregnant.

At the time, Maci only  had Bentley. She was giving speeches at colleges in 2014 about preventing unplanned pregnancies while she was currently pregnant in what was clearly an unplanned pregnancy- at least as far as the father knew (early enough that she wasn't visibly pregnant but anyone could do the math once her due date was announced and notice the hypocrisy). 

 

So Maci had to come up with an excuse over why she's lecturing people on responsible sex when she's clearly not the poster child for it. So she announced baby Jayde was a "miracle" and that she had been led to believe by her doctor that she would never again get pregnant on her own and that's why she eschewed birth control. 

[lezlers]

13 hours ago, Tatum said:

 

I don't know if Maci has PCOS or not and I don't think that is something that can be diagnosed based on skin, hair and build, anyways. 

 

My skepticism comes from when she said she had PCOS, she also said a number of things about it that weren't true, including the claim that her gyno told her she could skip birth control because she would never get pregnant on her own with PCOS. I absolutely do not believe any doctor told her that. I think she's lying. And if she's lying about that, maybe she's lying about having it in the first place.

 

I'd bet good money Maci went through a time of highly irregular periods, or no periods, either due to hormone changes or low weight or poor nutrition, googled her symptoms and self diagnosed. 

People tend to hear what they want to hear.  Her doctor probably told her it could be more difficult for women with PCOS to get pregnant and she took that and ran with it.  If I recall correctly, my friends who suffer from PCOS actually take hormonal birth control to help the condition.  I do actually believe she told Taylor that too and he was too dumb to research it on his own.  I'm fairly sure Jayde and Maverick were not accidents, at least not for Maci.

[Tatum]

8 minutes ago, lezlers said:

People tend to hear what they want to hear.  Her doctor probably told her it could be more difficult for women with PCOS to get pregnant and she took that and ran with it.  If I recall correctly, my friends who suffer from PCOS actually take hormonal birth control to help the condition.  I do actually believe she told Taylor that too and he was too dumb to research it on his own.  I'm fairly sure Jayde and Maverick were not accidents, at least not for Maci.

I believe Maverick was. Maci didn't have much to gain by getting pregnant again right away. If pregnancy #1 wasn't enough to prompt Taylor to propose, I don't know that I'd think #2 would close the deal. 

 

Like I said before, I don't know if Maci was ever officially diagnosed with PCOS or not. I certainly don't have access to her medical chart. But I believe she was lying through her teeth when she said her doctor told her in no uncertain terms she would not get pregnant on her own. 

[Caracoa1]

I think she had trap baby #3 (Maverick) because trap baby #2 (Jayde) was a girl....she thought I'll try again and hope for a boy...which worked....cuz she now has that ring on her finger!

[mamadrama]

On 12/23/2017 at 3:08 PM, SPLAIN said:

Second, she has no say-so in this situation. She didn't want anything to do with that child when she was a fetus in Catelynn's uterus. She wanted that adoption to happen. She should not be offering her worthless two cents in on the visitation issue which, frankly, is not an issue at all.

Honestly? I don't think ANY of them have a say so. B&T are Carly's parents in just about every sense of the word. C&T created her, that's it. They signed away their legal rights and gave up their emotional and physical rights to her when they decided not to keep her. Butch, Kim, and April? If they're so upset about the situation then they should have stepped in at the time and offered to help C&T. But none of them do. They no longer have a say. When C&T approved B&T and signed "their" daughter away, they have up rights to her. At this point in time, ANY decision that B&T makes to keep C&T in Carly's life is a privilege, not a right. They can allow her to spend every holiday with them or the can send them a picture every ten years-it's totally up to them. C&T have no say in it. 

Ugh. This pisses me off and I don't have a dog in this fight. 

[SPLAIN]

2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Honestly? I don't think ANY of them have a say so. B&T are Carly's parents in just about every sense of the word. C&T created her, that's it. They signed away their legal rights and gave up their emotional and physical rights to her when they decided not to keep her. Butch, Kim, and April? If they're so upset about the situation then they should have stepped in at the time and offered to help C&T. But none of them do. They no longer have a say. When C&T approved B&T and signed "their" daughter away, they have up rights to her. At this point in time, ANY decision that B&T makes to keep C&T in Carly's life is a privilege, not a right. They can allow her to spend every holiday with them or the can send them a picture every ten years-it's totally up to them. C&T have no say in it. 

Ugh. This pisses me off and I don't have a dog in this fight. 

That was really my point, my dear. Only B&T have a say-so regarding visitation. I mentioned Kim should not have a say-so because she was the one who aired her frustration at the matter and she seems to have a lot to say on how easy it should be for B&T to spare time to make this visit happen.

[ginger90]

Kim’s so annoying. I’d be fine with her never being on again.

[CofCinci]

The sick irony of Kim’s responses to Tyler and Catelynn —- she strong armed Catelynn into choosing adoption so that her precious son wouldn’t have to pay child support. 

[WhosThatGirl]

Like her son and Catelynn once upon a Time Kim was someone I liked on this show and was happy she was helping those two kids.. also when OG first resumed she said something like “this tv show isn’t a job for you guys” now she seems just as happy that it is, doesn’t she? Also yeah.. I can’t get over when she used to say little snide remarks about Catelynn to Tyler as if Tyler was so much better than Catelynn and now he was stuck with Catelynn and all her issues. 

And hearing her talk about B&T.. ugh. Both Tyler’s parents need boundaries. This just reminded me of when Cate and Tyler talked about inviting B&T to their high school graduation and then Tyler’s mom called them and did it herself. 

And I know dawn bugs some people, but when she was trying to explain to Tyler and Cate that the schedule Of this visit now depends on Carly’s life as a kid- activities she does now and how they can’t just change her whole daily routine like that, she was making sense. Sorry Catelynn and Tyler but their life and Carly’s life, not yours.

As for Maci and her POCs, I believe she may have it but also I believe she should have been taking precautions. At the same time I believe a few other things s well. I think she did hear what she wanted to hear and just thought maybe she did t have to be on top of things the way she should be. And also she does a lot of speaking engagements where she’s supposed to prevent unwanted pregnancy and she also sponsors certain products (waist training corset things) that pregnant woman shouldn’t and so when she got pregnant she knew she had this condition and therefore she could use it to her advantage, for her speaking engagements, for her jobs, for this show. And also to probably not make Taylor think she was planning it all along. 

And I don’t think it was a trap baby, I just think she wasn’t planning for anything, or taking the right steps I.e birth control.  And yeah that’s on Taylor as well. But if she was saying what she wanted to hear that she was told it was going to be hard for her to have more kids and he didn’t look into it.. yeah it really is on him.

I don’t know about baby number three. Only because the show and the timeline make it so odd. On the show she was so far along and everything about their reactions felt so faked about being surprised. And they already had pregnancy tests waiting to be taken? Yeah didn’t make sense.

[mamadrama]

6 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

That was really my point, my dear. 

Oh yeah, totally. I was just co-signing what you'd already said. :-)

[ReadMeLattice]

On 12/23/2017 at 4:59 PM, JuliesMommy said:

Although, drinking and texting isnt a good combo either..lol i speak from personal experience...lol

Yeah, some of the texts I sent to my high school ex at my first college party prove that that's definitely the case...

[ReadMeLattice]

On 12/23/2017 at 10:28 PM, Tatum said:

 

I'd bet good money Maci went through a time of highly irregular periods, or no periods, either due to hormone changes or low weight or poor nutrition, googled her symptoms and self diagnosed. 

Yep. Ovarian cysts could also cause them, and irregular periods are far more common than we usually think. She's also underweight, as you mention. She could very well have PCOS, a lot of people do (and are able to get pregnant...), but I bet she just had rare or irregular periods and self-diagnosed. Just my opinion. 

I'm torn on the partying while Bentley was young thing. As with many things with Maci, I think her advertisement of it and her extremity are what make it bad. I've had two work trips since my baby was born and I took the opportunity to go out with friends during them and have some cocktails. I used them as breaks. I've also had a lot of family help. I don't feel bad about any of that at all. I think every parent needs a break. However, Maci was living IN A PARTY HOUSE with Bentley. She's always been very immature and striving way too hard to look "cool," and she's definitely not the best role model.

However, I would never, ever say she's as bad as Ryan. I don't think binge drinking should be supported, and she acts like a ridiculous self-righteous asshole in many cases, but exactly the same as neglecting your child from birth, then becoming a junkie and leaving rehab early? Not in my opinion. She has made some terrible decisions, but Ryan wasn't even there for Bentley for most of his life. The heroin is just the latest failure. 

Edited December 25, 2017 by Lm2162

[ReadMeLattice]

On 12/23/2017 at 3:08 PM, SPLAIN said:

Hi all. I have found some time to come and post for a bit in between all this holiday chaos. I tried posting in yesterday, but found it just wasn't going to happen.

I have been thinking about this deleted scene ever since it was linked here by @CofCinci. It truly bothers me that these people, particularly a girl who has nothing going on in her life other than chew the fat, chew her non-existent nails, and lie around getting more fat, can actually stand there on camera and make comments how B&T could not be so busy in life to work around her busy life.

Kim: "It's just aggravating to me because I don't think anyone is THAT busy. We are all busy but I could stop for two hours or a day." Cate interrupts: "That's what I saaaaaaaaid."

Tyler in response: "That's what we said."

Kim's response, the tone with which she said it along with that whiny voice is so repulsive to me. First of all, she is supposed to be the adult in all of this and rather than lend a sympathetic ear, she is offering up words that Tyler would say and in the same attitude he would say them. Second, she has no say-so in this situation. She didn't want anything to do with that child when she was a fetus in Catelynn's uterus. She wanted that adoption to happen. She should not be offering her worthless two cents in on the visitation issue which, frankly, is not an issue at all. They are all making it an issue because B&T are not bowing down to the dates offered by her highness queen of quesadilla and Princess Big Boy.

Kim's words and her emotions in that deleted scene show why those two idiots are acting the way they do. After watching this deleted scene a handful of times, I can see the dynamics a little better and why it is Cate is in a different place now with her attitude towards B&T. Cate at one time seemed to be more understanding of B&T's boundaries. I suppose after a while of hearing Kim offering up her self-serving bias on these visits, hearing Tyler ranting every chance he gets along with what Butch and April dished out, Cate was finally worn down and converted to Tyler's way of thinking and handling of the situation. 

Kim venting about how frustrated and irritated she is about B&T saying they are busy in their lives. It is not her place to say how busy or not busy someone is in their life. What she is able to do in her life should not be compared to anyone else. C&T have no room whatsoever to say anything on this matter. Those two have NOTHING going on in their lives. C&T can easily take jaunts to Puerto Rico or a weekend cabin because they DON'T WORK. They have no clue how it is to be a couple trying to pay off a mortgage through actual hard work at an actual job. These are people who have children. They have lives outside of their work. They aren't sitting around collecting a six figure paycheck while hitting the bong and getting drunk on beer every week with their friends.

I am repeating myself here. As an adopted child, it infuriates me the constant references to Carly as "my kid" and "my child". She is NOT YOUR CHILD. As for Tyler's nonsense about how they should be thankful for what he gave them, I wish I could personally tell this prick where he can shove that sanctimonious attitude of his. In fact, I'd love to personally shove it there myself. You stupid ass prick, when you bestow upon someone a gift, even the gift of life, you are not to lord it over their heads for the remainder of their lives. I hope you never have to give someone a kidney because I can imagine how you would hold that over that person's head:

Tyler: "I gave you a kidney. I should be able to visit you and see your scar anytime I want to because I gave you life!"

Cate and Tyler are in need of mental help. Not for depression. That is not Cate's issue. Both her and her husband need a major wake-up call and an attitude adjustment. I don't see things changing as long as they have the likes of Kim, April, and Butch around. A&B have been pushing this "my kid" agenda since day one. Kim joined later on. Those three are feeding their selfish agenda which is to have access to a child they feel is their grandchild. This is full-on enabling. This is so similar to what is happening in the Edwards/Ryan/Mackenzie camp.

Co-signing on all of this. April, Butch and Kim have all had a major hand in making this situation as horrible as it is. And like I said in the other thread, I don't buy that Cate and Tyler in particular were told they'd be having brunch with Carly and B&T on the weekends or something. I don't doubt that Bethany exploits young birth parents, and that's obviously terribly wrong. But they were very clear at the beginning that they knew they would be giving up their parental rights, had no legal claims on Carly, and might not get visits every year. They sounded more lucid then than they do now. And definitely agree that Cate seemed to understand the boundaries more before she was brainwashed by Kim and Tyler to see B&T as child-stealers who should be worshipping the ground Tyler walks on. Instead of Carly's ONLY parents. Which is what they are. 

Also, I notice that Tyler never says that B&T should be grateful to THEM, just to HIM. Last I checked, Carly was actually *carried* by Catelynn. They don't owe anybody any gratitude, but if I was going to be, I would at least be more grateful to the person who actually carried the baby for 9 months and went into labor than I would be to the very irritating sperm donor. Kim has played a major role in making Tyler the spoiled little ingrate he is today. 

 

[leighroda]

4 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

Co-signing on all of this. April, Butch and Kim have all had a major hand in making this situation as horrible as it is. And like I said in the other thread, I don't buy that Cate and Tyler in particular were told they'd be having brunch with Carly and B&T on the weekends or something. I don't doubt that Bethany exploits young birth parents, and that's obviously terribly wrong. But they were very clear at the beginning that they knew they would be giving up their parental rights, had no legal claims on Carly, and might not get visits every year. They sounded more lucid then than they do now. And definitely agree that Cate seemed to understand the boundaries more before she was brainwashed by Kim and Tyler to see B&T as child-stealers who should be worshipping the ground Tyler walks on. Instead of Carly's ONLY parents. Which is what they are. 

Also, I notice that Tyler never says that B&T should be grateful to THEM, just to HIM. Last I checked, Carly was actually *carried* by Catelynn. They don't owe anybody any gratitude, but if I was going to be, I would at least be more grateful to the person who actually carried the baby for 9 months and went into labor than I would be to the very irritating sperm donor. Kim has played a major role in making Tyler the spoiled little ingrate he is today. 

 

Tyler probably thinks it’s just grateful to *him* because he’s the one who insisted on adoption, Catelynn probably would have kept the baby.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. Kim is a big reason why Tyler is the one he is. As I said in my previous post she used to make side comments about Catelynn and Tyler as if Cate was the reason why Tyler wasn’t doing much with his life or something. As f Tyler wasn’t just as lazy which he is. I’m sorry but that’s the truth. 

And here’s the thing.. I still feel more for Catelynn in this situation more than I do Tyler. For some reason I feel more actual pain for her. I’m not sure if it’s the facet that she is he birth mother and therefore the baby was a part of her but it just.. I get her pain.

It might also be that back when OG first states, she seemed willing at that time to go with B&T wanted in order to keep seeing Carly sometimes, it seems like once she got married to Tyler she changed her tune. But at first she seemed like she would be okay with their requirements, and Tyler was the one who was all upset. I remember a scene or maybe I’m just imagining it but Cate was talking about how she understood what they wanted and was willing to do t and Tyler was like “I’m not okay with it and it costs me seeing Carly whatever” and Catelynn looked upset. Because Tyler didn’t give a damn about her feelings. 

[zenme]

EVERY  time I watch, I wonder wtf Tyler and Caitlyn are doing with a clothing line. No taste whatsoever!

[Scarlett45]

21 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah.. Kim is a big reason why Tyler is the one he is. As I said in my previous post she used to make side comments about Catelynn and Tyler as if Cate was the reason why Tyler wasn’t doing much with his life or something. As f Tyler wasn’t just as lazy which he is. I’m sorry but that’s the truth. 

And here’s the thing.. I still feel more for Catelynn in this situation more than I do Tyler. For some reason I feel more actual pain for her. I’m not sure if it’s the facet that she is he birth mother and therefore the baby was a part of her but it just.. I get her pain.

It might also be that back when OG first states, she seemed willing at that time to go with B&T wanted in order to keep seeing Carly sometimes, it seems like once she got married to Tyler she changed her tune. But at first she seemed like she would be okay with their requirements, and Tyler was the one who was all upset. I remember a scene or maybe I’m just imagining it but Cate was talking about how she understood what they wanted and was willing to do t and Tyler was like “I’m not okay with it and it costs me seeing Carly whatever” and Catelynn looked upset. Because Tyler didn’t give a damn about her feelings. 

Catelynn has her faults, but when it comes to accepting her role as Carly’s BIRTH mother and B&T’s boundaries she’s always been the most respectful and sincere. I think she was willing to hop on one foot and stand on her head if that was required to keep a yearly visit with Carly.

I do think after the wedding Catelynn started on Tyler’s bandwagon, perhaps she felt she had to stand by her husband (not saying I agree just giving a reason). 

[ginger90]

I think Twitter and such have influenced both Cate and Tyler as far as the adoption. The comments they get are insane.

[Snarky McSnarky]

On 12/22/2017 at 3:24 AM, CofCinci said:

Check out this deleted scene:

http://www.mtv.com/video-clips/go3eqm/teen-mom-deleted-scene-adoptive-parents

Catelynn would do anything for the biological parents of her hypothetical adopted child. To the moon and back. Bitch can’t even get off the couch and stop her other child from eating shit off the floor. 

"I gave you the right to be her parent."  Fuck off Tyler, you arrogant little piece of dog shit.  You gave up all rights to your child, period.  You didn't bestow any rights to the adoptive parents, so stop pontificating in front of the cameras.  If I were the adoptive parents and saw you talking like that on television or social media, I'd close the adoption faster than you could say "goofy ass hairstyle."

[zenme]

Today I was watching my recording with my 25 yr old son, and I was explaining the cast's backgrounds. If I recall correctly, Tyler gave Caitlyn the ultimatum that if she didn't give up Carly for adoption, he'd dump her. "I'm sure the kid is better off," DS said. Yes. True, but Tyler seems to just do what Tyler wants to do.  Whatever is convenient for Tyler is what Tyler and Caitlyn do. I've no doubt that Carly is better off, hell, Nova needs to be adopted to T & B, but Tyler remains a self-serving ass.

[GreatKazu]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 5:40 AM, Lm2162 said:

Yep. Ovarian cysts could also cause them, and irregular periods are far more common than we usually think. She's also underweight, as you mention. She could very well have PCOS, a lot of people do (and are able to get pregnant...), but I bet she just had rare or irregular periods and self-diagnosed. Just my opinion. 

I'm torn on the partying while Bentley was young thing. As with many things with Maci, I think her advertisement of it and her extremity are what make it bad. I've had two work trips since my baby was born and I took the opportunity to go out with friends during them and have some cocktails. I used them as breaks. I've also had a lot of family help. I don't feel bad about any of that at all. I think every parent needs a break. However, Maci was living IN A PARTY HOUSE with Bentley. She's always been very immature and striving way too hard to look "cool," and she's definitely not the best role model.

However, I would never, ever say she's as bad as Ryan. I don't think binge drinking should be supported, and she acts like a ridiculous self-righteous asshole in many cases, but exactly the same as neglecting your child from birth, then becoming a junkie and leaving rehab early? Not in my opinion. She has made some terrible decisions, but Ryan wasn't even there for Bentley for most of his life. The heroin is just the latest failure. 

I think what got blurred was the comparison of Maci not putting the safety of her children first while she is behind the wheel. One can be a danger behind the wheel without having an addiction to any particular drug. 

I received a FireStick for Christmas. Aside from binge-watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, I was enjoying watching the earlier seasons of Teen Mom. Boy, Maci was such a sanctimonious little twerp back in the earlier seasons. I guess it just took time for me to see her for what she truly is. It is interesting to go back and see the cast members knowing what we know of them now. This will be fun to go back to double check and verify certain things that have become blurred over the seasons. There was an earlier scene before the mediation episode where Maci happened to mention it was "Ryan's weekend" to have Bentley. Even before that mediation episode there was a set schedule that they were following. 

[Tatum]

7 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I think what got blurred was the comparison of Maci not putting the safety of her children first while she is behind the wheel. One can be a danger behind the wheel without having an addiction to any particular drug. 

I received a FireStick for Christmas. Aside from binge-watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, I was enjoying watching the earlier seasons of Teen Mom. Boy, Maci was such a sanctimonious little twerp back in the earlier seasons. I guess it just took time for me to see her for what she truly is. It is interesting to go back and see the cast members knowing what we know of them now. This will be fun to go back to double check and verify certain things that have become blurred over the seasons. There was an earlier scene before the mediation episode where Maci happened to mention it was "Ryan's weekend" to have Bentley. Even before that mediation episode there was a set schedule that they were following. 

I thought Maci came across relatively well in the first season of TM...she was mostly shown with Bentley or studying. After Kyle came along Maci got pretty annoying. I don't necessarily blame Kyle but it does seem like dating him was the catalyst that made her know it all superiority complex come out full force.

[GreatKazu]

4 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I thought Maci came across relatively well in the first season of TM...she was mostly shown with Bentley or studying. After Kyle came along Maci got pretty annoying. I don't necessarily blame Kyle but it does seem like dating him was the catalyst that made her know it all superiority complex come out full force.

That is the era I am referring to. This was when she began dating Kyle. She was asking all of her friends what they thought of him, and of course, they all praised her for finding such a wonderful father for Bentley. Maci then said she had to ensure Ryan did the same in his life - find the perfect step-mother for Bentley. Of course, she was saying all of this right before she and her friends were set to party. 

[Tatum]

1 minute ago, GreatKazu said:

That is the era I am referring to. This was when she began dating Kyle. She was asking all of her friends what they thought of him, and of course, they all praised her for finding such a wonderful father for Bentley. Maci then said she had to ensure Ryan did the same in his life - find the perfect step-mother for Bentley. Of course, she was saying all of this right before she and her friends were set to party. 

I think it was around that time as well that Maci left Bentley with her parents for 4 straight weeks so she could go on her multi city speaking tour which ended with the infamous beer bong pictures on some beach, when she was around 18-19. She took a lot of flak for that on TWoP (not so much the drinking- if taking a beer bong at 18 makes you an awful person then you guys probably don't want to know me, but the flak was more geared towards leaving your for a month to go party).

 

I also remember her whining to Kyle about how he should marry her or at least agree to knock her up because, she was "bored" as Bentley moved out of the baby stage. And then when all her friends told her what a shit idea that was, she started crying and whined to Kyle that her friends were mean to her and made her cry. At first Kyle was supportive, but when it dawned on him that Maci was mad at her friends for telling her that she shouldn't be trying to get pregnant right then, the look on his face was priceless. You can just see the wheels turning in his head, making sure to remind himself to check his box of condoms for holes going forward.

[GreatKazu]

I don't think I remember having an issue with her drinking alcohol. I had my fair share of alcohol before I was 21 years of age. But I also wasn't a young mother at the time. I wasn't burdening anyone with caring for my child so I could go out and party. If I was to have had any child without the benefit of being in a stable relationship, there is no way in hell my family would have watched my child while I go out to party and drink. If I had a job that was paying me to speak at certain engagements, then they would have babysat knowing my ass was coming right back to my child. No time for any foolishness like going out to drink and party. 

Knowing that Maci has some kind of issue with alcohol (not being able to curb it while pregnant), looking back at those photos of her drinking it up when she was 18 years of age, it puts a different spin on things, at least for me it does. We post our opinions based only on what we knew at the time. 

[WhosThatGirl]

10 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I think it was around that time as well that Maci left Bentley with her parents for 4 straight weeks so she could go on her multi city speaking tour which ended with the infamous beer bong pictures on some beach, when she was around 18-19. She took a lot of flak for that on TWoP (not so much the drinking- if taking a beer bong at 18 makes you an awful person then you guys probably don't want to know me, but the flak was more geared towards leaving your for a month to go party).

 

I also remember her whining to Kyle about how he should marry her or at least agree to knock her up because, she was "bored" as Bentley moved out of the baby stage. And then when all her friends told her what a shit idea that was, she started crying and whined to Kyle that her friends were mean to her and made her cry. At first Kyle was supportive, but when it dawned on him that Maci was mad at her friends for telling her that she shouldn't be trying to get pregnant right then, the look on his face was priceless. You can just see the wheels turning in his head, making sure to remind himself to check his box of condoms for holes going forward.

Also she told Kyle she had to give Bentley up for half the week and was sad and wanted another.

And drinking at a young age isn’t that much of a problem for me but leaving your baby for a month to go party is a totally different thing. 

Also I can’t forget the Being Maci special and her living with all those other girls in what appeared to be a party house pretty much. 

I feel like yes Maci got a really good edit in the first season but how could she have not? Ryan was Ryan and was never around to parent so yeah we saw Maci being a parent and dealing with Ryan just being terrible. And in the second season up until she dated Kyle and then decided to move where he was she got a good edit. 

But yeah.. knowing that she tends to drink a lot.. it colors a lot of the things she did in the past in a different light. Its also interesting the edit Maci got  in the first season to Farrah and and yet Maci got a great edit and Farrah got an edit of the mom who goes out too much. We never saw anything of that nature going on with Maci because that’s not the story the show wanted for her. 

[Tatum]

Did Farrah ever really even go out that much? I honestly can't remember. I remember one or two guys she dated in the first season, and then the guy she briefly called a boyfriend who dumped her after she insulted his friends, his stepmother, and his hometown, but I don't remember her really going out much. I think this had less to do with being responsible and more to do with her not having any friends or dates to go out with.

 

Wouldn't it be kind of funny though to find out that Farrah, who had this reputation for being wild and always pawning her kid off on her parents, was actually the parent who most frequently stayed home with her child, while Sanctimommy Maci was the most guilty of leaving her kids to go drink and hang with her friends? (I don't know if this is true, but it's not impossible).

23 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I don't think I remember having an issue with her drinking alcohol. I had my fair share of alcohol before I was 21 years of age. But I also wasn't a young mother at the time. I wasn't burdening anyone with caring for my child so I could go out and party. If I was to have had any child without the benefit of being in a stable relationship, there is no way in hell my family would have watched my child while I go out to party and drink. If I had a job that was paying me to speak at certain engagements, then they would have babysat knowing my ass was coming right back to my child. No time for any foolishness like going out to drink and party. 

Knowing that Maci has some kind of issue with alcohol (not being able to curb it while pregnant), looking back at those photos of her drinking it up when she was 18 years of age, it puts a different spin on things, at least for me it does. We post our opinions based only on what we knew at the time. 

Agreed. I left my kids to go on a business trip last month. And in the evening, I did go out to nice dinners and had some cocktails. Nothing wrong with enjoying yourself on your downtime at work.

 

But being filmed doing beer bongs when you're underage and something of a known public figure, while your parents are home babysitting your toddler child? Way different. She may not have had the option to go home every night she was on that tour, but she could have been doing some more productive things than illegally drinking in public.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Tatum