Meghan McCain: "Both Sides" Wannabe Tough Chick

Tanichka · February 3, 2018

28 minutes ago, Tosia said:

Oy vey, the shoulder pads on that red suit!

And it was tight enough to see where her her spanx ended and her waist rolls began.

OMG - I didn't think it was too bad until I looked at the clips and saw her walking out in that. You just CAN'T wear skin-tight if you're a little chunky. Her hair was OK, but I still wish she would go less blond. I couldn't take the interview - I'm sure she said nothing of interest whatsoever.

backformore · February 3, 2018

3 minutes ago, Tanichka said:

Her hair was OK, but I still wish she would go less blond.

Yes - there are other shades of blonde, you don't have to be "Crayola yellow."

GHScorpiosRule · February 3, 2018

1 hour ago, Tosia said:

Sooooo, why was MM on Colbert????

Because she's on the View? To give an update on her dad? Talk about her wedding? Drop political names? Okayyyyy.

My thoughts exactly! She doesn’t have a book to plug/promote and had nothing of value to contribute. Just talked about how she revealed the first time she had sex on his old show and now talking about it on his new show. And a lotta lying.

Edited February 3, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

Tosia · February 3, 2018

So, MM talked about sex the first time that she was on Colbert and then REPEATED the story this time, like it was so entertaining. So, next time that MM's on Colbert (whatever for?), she can threepeat it again? You're 33 years old. Get some relevant life experiences of your own (not Daddy or Mommy or brother Marine), or new material.

Then, she reiterated her tired, fake spiel of being a tough girl...not a snowflake....blech...even though we all know that she is the above, and less. Much, much less.

This from someone who cries and pouts when others --the panel or audience or guests --ignore her, move on without commenting on her Faux talking points, applaud for the opposite view, and generally already know what she's selling, er, I mean educationg us on (Drumpf's base), cuz we're sane and don't care. MM does not answer direct questions because she's not smart or informed or prepared enough to do so. Tough cookie, my ass.

She is hate-full though for any opposing viewpoint and mean as a spitting snake to the opposition. It's not pretty, nor will it gain her any traction for future guests. Or jobs, I hope, which she seems to be "hustlin" for, before Daddy passes on.

I seem to keep posting the same observations about MM here on line, and should just copy and paste my posts in the future. I am tired of her being a waste of space and airtime with her ignorant presence.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Tosia
I can't with her anymore.

Wings · February 3, 2018

Someone must have cancelled at the last minute. If her name was listed in the episode description that tells me they can change that quickly. Why on earth otherwise?

Wings · February 3, 2018

If you are tough you don't have to tell people you are. Her country girl 'performance' includes a distain for the Oscar nominated movies! "Oh I don't know about those, I liked I Tonya." Her tone was dismissive as if the others were too high brow for her image? Not fitting for a Republican? Who knows.

Gemma Violet · February 4, 2018

Seems like there was very little applause when she came out. It almost sounded like the band was playing extra forcefully to hide the silence from the audience.

GHScorpiosRule · February 4, 2018

I ??? and ???? when she said she had a cold dark heart with respect to her not letting things get to her or how she hardly ever or never cries. Because that’s all she does on this show when the other hosts challenge her or don’t agree with her. Not to mention whenever she mentions or talks about her dad or when she’s whining about “how HAAAAARD!” It is being on this show and people = the audience won’t ~~buy~~ listen to her “explain.”

She does have a cold dark heart, based on what she has said, about minorities, Dreamers, DACA, and women’s rights over their bodies.

That dress she wore did her no favors.

GHScorpiosRule · February 7, 2018

GAH. I hate and loathe that this twat is trending on social media now.

GHScorpiosRule · February 8, 2018

From Episode Thread-Week of 02/05/2018:

2 hours ago, lexytheblasian said:

Meghan McCain will be on The Van Jones Show this Saturday on CNN, if anyone wants to see which side of her mouth she'll talk out of this time.

The same one she used on Colbert's show. But Van doesn't suffer any fools.

1 hour ago, Tanichka said:

WHY is she going to be on Van Jones??? She offers nothing!

Maybe she's job hunting? I mean, she claimed to be a "political "commentator"" and that CBS article dubbed her a pundit after that podcast, where she "claimed" she spoke with 45, who "assured her" that he wouldn't go after her Daddy. And so now all of a sudden, so many want her on their show? UGH.

Tosia · February 8, 2018

I wonder if the View agreed to keep MM for 6 months so she could pad her resume.

It's been 4 1/2 months, so maybe we'll get an early Easter basket of chocolate bunnies, marshmallow chicks, candy eggs, and Ana.

fishsanwitt · February 9, 2018

Oh Meh-gan, shaking your head when Joy - JOY!!!! - says 45 has a 'thing' for his daughter. The nerve!

lookeyloo · February 9, 2018

Are we allowed to say that I saw a promo for Van Jones who will have MM on and touted her even handed approach to politics and new ideas. Does he watch The View? Makes me wonder if they hired her to play a part. Jenny McCarthy said she was hired to be one way and then when she was, Barbara and Bill told her she had to be another way.

Medicine Crow · February 9, 2018

2 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Are we allowed to say that I saw a promo for Van Jones who will have MM on and touted her even handed approach to politics and new ideas. Does he watch The View? Makes me wonder if they hired her to play a part. Jenny McCarthy said she was hired to be one way and then when she was, Barbara and Bill told her she had to be another way.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! I'm betting he doesn't press her on anything, so ..... (his wish will come true).

Apprentice79 · February 9, 2018

10 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Are we allowed to say that I saw a promo for Van Jones who will have MM on and touted her even handed approach to politics and new ideas. Does he watch The View? Makes me wonder if they hired her to play a part. Jenny McCarthy said she was hired to be one way and then when she was, Barbara and Bill told her she had to be another way.

How did they want Jenny McCarthy to be? She never spoke about her theory about vaccinations. Plus, her friendship with Sherry was so fake.. Sherry tried to act like they were best friends..

lookeyloo · February 10, 2018

6 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

How did they want Jenny McCarthy to be? She never spoke about her theory about vaccinations. Plus, her friendship with Sherry was so fake.. Sherry tried to act like they were best friends..

I remember her saying on her radio show that they hired her to be zany and off beat and then they told her to tone it down. But I just googled and asked why she left the view and. Her quotes were a bit different. So I guess we really don’t know.

maggiemae · February 10, 2018

I heard she was hired to bring the fluff. Whatever - she was a nothing, imo.

TheGreenKnight · February 10, 2018

What I don't understand is why ABC--or any company/channel for that matter--would continue to employ someone who discredits the integrity of their employer by accusing them of being a peddler of fake news, who daily insults the live audience of the show she co-hosts, and who openly and purposely antagonizes a fellow employee who the company had previously bribed back to save their floundering show (Behar)? And all of that had already happened within 4 months of her starting date! What a privileged world she lives in where that kind of behavior on the job goes unpunished.

lexytheblasian · February 10, 2018

??????

Yep, tomorrow’s show is gonna be a fluff piece, y’all.

Edited February 10, 2018 by lexytheblasian

lexytheblasian · February 10, 2018

1 hour ago, TheGreenKnight said:

What I don't understand is why ABC--or any company/channel for that matter--would continue to employ someone who discredits the integrity of their employer by accusing them of being a peddler of fake news, who daily insults the live audience of the show she co-hosts, and who openly and purposely antagonizes a fellow employee who the company had previously bribed back to save their floundering show (Behar)? And all of that had already happened within 4 months of her starting date! What a privileged world she lives in where that kind of behavior on the job goes unpunished.

I don’t understand it either. The only possible reason I can think of is that they’re trying to create some Jerry Springer-type drama. I mean, Meggy did say on her very first day that her and Joy would never agree on anything and that she wanted to be the next Bitsy. Going after Joy, as we have all witnessed, is only making her look more and more like a fool so I say keep it up, Meggy.

Edited February 10, 2018 by lexytheblasian

AnnieBeez · February 10, 2018

12 minutes ago, lexytheblasian said:

??????

Yep, tomorrow’s show is gonna be a fluff piece, y’all.

Why is she dressed like a member of the FLDS?

lexytheblasian · February 10, 2018

5 minutes ago, PuhLeeze said:

Why is she dressed like a member of the FLDS?

She also wears things that are very unflattering to her figure. That’s not me taking a stab at her body as I’m not a skinny gal myself but she should maybe find a different stylist because these outfits do her no justice. There are times when she looks cute on The View.

Edited February 10, 2018 by lexytheblasian

Jaded · February 10, 2018

I wonder if CNN sparked a deal to promote The View on some of their shows? Whoopi was on The Axe Files last weekend and MM is on Van Jones's show this weekend.

blondiec0332 · February 10, 2018

4 hours ago, lexytheblasian said:

??????

Yep, tomorrow’s show is gonna be a fluff piece, y’all.

Full of heart and smarts? She clearly has been holding back on the View. She never exhibits those things on the show.

And yes that dress is horrid. Pretty color but the style looks like something a Duggar would wear.

Tanichka · February 10, 2018

1 hour ago, blondiec0332 said:

Full of heart and smarts? She clearly has been holding back on the View.

I think it's because the other women are SO mean!

I think I will give Van's show a miss.

Jaded · February 10, 2018

1 hour ago, blondiec0332 said:

Full of heart and smarts? She clearly has been holding back on the View. She never exhibits those things on the show.

And yes that dress is horrid. Pretty color but the style looks like something a Duggar would wear.

It's more like she's full of heated farts aka hot air. I hate that she got Joy to take some of the bait she's been throwing out for months.

Tosia · February 10, 2018

So, if MM has her eye on a political office, would the good ole boy Repubs let her in?

blondiec0332 · February 10, 2018

1 hour ago, Tosia said:

So, if MM has her eye on a political office, would the good ole boy Repubs let her in?

I think this is why she is playing to the conservative base. That base never really fully accepted her dad so I think she is taking it up a notch. Although her being LGTBQ friendly might be an issue.

Tosia · February 10, 2018

Yeah, MM'S not the typical conservative that she staunchly defends, plus I was thinking that because she's a woman--and a relatively young one-- that the old timers, i.e., old white men, would not get on board.

She's not her dad--by a longgggggggggggggggggggggg shot.

Kenz · February 10, 2018

10 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

What I don't understand is why ABC--or any company/channel for that matter--would continue to employ someone who discredits the integrity of their employer by accusing them of being a peddler of fake news, who daily insults the live audience of the show she co-hosts, and who openly and purposely antagonizes a fellow employee who the company had previously bribed back to save their floundering show (Behar)? And all of that had already happened within 4 months of her starting date! What a privileged world she lives in where that kind of behavior on the job goes unpunished.

It probably helps with the ratings on the show. I admit that sometimes I tune in to see what dumb things Meghan is going to spout off. I'm not proud of that fact. :( She may just cross the line one of these days, and the other hosts may want her gone. I suspect that Joy has a lot of clout with the producers, so maybe she will instigate Meghan's removal.

Apprentice79 · February 10, 2018

34 minutes ago, Kenz said:

It probably helps with the ratings on the show. I admit that sometimes I tune in to see what dumb things Meghan is going to spout off. I'm not proud of that fact. :( She may just cross the line one of these days, and the other hosts may want her gone. I suspect that Joy has a lot of clout with the producers, so maybe she will instigate Meghan's removal.

I can see Joy freezing her out behind the scenes like she did with Elizabeth. She will treat her with respect on the show. At the end of the day, Joy has more staying power than Megan. I notice that Megan never goes after Whoopie like she does with Joy. Whoopie is a liberal like Joy. Sunny and Sarah lean liberal as well. So, what is her problem with Joy. I cant stand Megan and she gets worst everyday..

Edited February 10, 2018 by Apprentice79

Tosia · February 10, 2018

No, MM won't go after Whoopi because Whoopi has ALOT of friends--celebrities and politicians (albeit liberal mostly )who revere her--plus she is Black and MM biting at Whoopi's heels would comfirm the alleged Republican racism.

Sunny is also a person of color and wayyyyyy too smart for MM to pull that BS on. Sarah is too nice, and besides neither she nor Sunny have the name recognition of Joy.

Joy is also too smart and witty, but this dumbell MM thinks she can vy equally with her, which is a big fucking joke. MM spews nonsense word salad and Joy responds with logical, specific reasons for her own calm statements. MM huffs and puffs, rolls her eyes, drinks her tea, and squints side-eyed at the audience in frustration. Annoying at the very least. Joy's got nothing to worry about.

fishsanwitt · February 11, 2018

As much as i think she is a fool, I would not discount MM.

I hope Joy is able to look past this and continue to be the smart, confident and funny woman she is. It will drive MM *wild*!

Apprentice79 · February 11, 2018

20 minutes ago, fishsanwitt said:

As much as i think she is a fool, I would not discount MM.

I hope Joy is able to look past this and continue to be the smart, confident and funny woman she is. It will drive MM *wild*!

Discount her in what way? Megan is in Joy's house...She is a visitor who has worn out her welcome. I am sure that we are not the only ones who realize how awful she is...She is out of her depth. She needs to go back to Foxnews and talk about how liberals are the scum of the earth...There, no one will challenge her and they can bask in their awesomeness, as conservatives..

blondiec0332 · February 11, 2018

26 minutes ago, fishsanwitt said:

As much as i think she is a fool, I would not discount MM.

I hope Joy is able to look past this and continue to be the smart, confident and funny woman she is. It will drive MM *wild*!

Meghan is trying to make a name for herself. I don't frequent conservative sites so i don't know what the right thinks of her. But I'm sure in her mind she thinks if she took down Joy it would put her on the map. Just like the split screen did for Elisabeth. The right hated Rosie and after that suddenly EH was a household name.

GHScorpiosRule · February 11, 2018

8 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Discount her in what way? Megan is in Joy's house...She is a visitor who has worn out her welcome. I am sure that we are not the only ones who realize how awful she is...She is out of her depth. She needs to go back to Foxnews and talk about how liberals are the scum of the earth...There, no one will challenge her and they can bask in their awesomeness, as conservatives..

Agree. And in the comments of that tweet she posted, she was dragged for her behavior yesterday, despite her fans who luuurve her and that hideous dress.

I discount her because she has proven herself to be an uninformed ignorant fool. As was proven by herself by the BIG words she threw out, clearly with no understanding of their meaning, but because she probably thought they made her sound smart/intelligent.

Edited February 11, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

bannana · February 11, 2018

Van Jones says at the top of the show that the country is lacking in decency, civility and sanity, and that Elsa is the living embodiment of all three qualities. He also says that she is a star in her own right and is fighting everyday for the best in the Repub party, and that she is going to share her insights: "which we desperately need". See, I knew there was a reason that I don't like VJ.

Apprentice79 · February 11, 2018

6 minutes ago, bannana said:

Van Jones says at the top of the show that the country is lacking in decency, civility and sanity, and that Elsa is the living embodiment of all three qualities. He also says that she is a star in her own right and is fighting everyday for the best in the Repub party, and that she is going to share her insights: "which we desperately need". See, I knew there was a reason that I don't like VJ.

I go back and forth with him..

blondiec0332 · February 11, 2018

6 minutes ago, bannana said:

Van Jones says at the top of the show that the country is lacking in decency, civility and sanity, and that Elsa is the living embodiment of all three qualities. He also says that she is a star in her own right and is fighting everyday for the best in the Repub party, and that she is going to share her insights: "which we desperately need". See, I knew there was a reason that I don't like VJ.

Well that is a crock of shit. Star in her own right? Nope. Decent, civil, sane? Nope. Fighting everyday? Ok I will give him that one.

maggiemae · February 11, 2018

Anyone notice Van asked her why she joined TV and she said her dad thought it a good idea - when just this past week she listens to NO MAN - not even her dad or husband.

I am so done with her.

bannana · February 11, 2018

VJ continued....She is wearing a very unfortunate dress. She is intimidated by all of the photos on set. She says she hasn't been on CNN in years, years. He says the country doesn't deserve her because she is a principled conservative, rooted in the best of her party. He says she continues to try and reach out and make connections and then asks the audience to give her another round of applause. Oh, Elsa, you are in your happy place now. She gets misty eyed but goes right into how easy it is to get cynical and jaded. She thanks him for the tongue bath.

They talk about her dad's cancer.

VJ shows the clip of the crazy lady at the town hall who says she can't trust Obama because he is an Arab. She talks about how her dad was being encouraged to go down the Obama is a Muslim and Jeremiah Wright road. VJ wants to know where that courage to do the principled thing has gone and she says it doesn't win elections. She says some stuff about having cancer and being President, and not having that burden, and something about Trump, it was a bit of a word salad and I didn't bother rewinding.

Elsa says her dad encouraged her to take risks and get out of the echo chamber, he believes they are too insulated and "tribal". She got the call to be on The View, she said no, and he told her to say yes, to working with Whoopi, to being the one Repub. Then she apologizes for blathering on. Van wants to know if her dad gave her bad advice. He said the View is like rock 'em sock 'em robots. He asks her how it feels when they are basically implying she is a racist, and sometimes the audience is mean. Clearly this came from pre discussions with his producers. She says it is not pleasant, and the audience is mostly liberal, but then says it is a privilege to be on the show, and talks about Whoopi and Joy as legends. She says it is challenging to learn how to speak to the most extreme liberals she has ever met in her life (oh, FFS, really?). TBC

Edited February 11, 2018 by bannana
grammar

lexytheblasian · February 11, 2018

14 minutes ago, bannana said:

Elsa says her dad encouraged her to take risks and get out of the echo chamber, he believes they are too insulated and "tribal". She got the call to be on The View, she said no, and he told her to say yes, to working with Whoopi, to being the one Repub.

This stood out to me as well. The fact that her father was the one who encouraged her to get out of the echo chamber that is Fox shows what a difference in open-mindedness there is between the two. We all know why she initially said no: she’s intimidated by those who challenge her political beliefs and it shows everyday on The View. Being around people who agree with her all the time is where she’s most comfortable.

Unsurprisingly, there really wasn’t much substance during his entire interview with her.

Edited February 11, 2018 by lexytheblasian

bannana · February 11, 2018

Elsa is in a happy environment with Van, but she still looks tense and somewhat flustered, but not strident and angry, as we usually see her.

He asks her, what do liberals get wrong? She says she wasn't a huge Trump supporter for obvi reasons, but decided on election day that she was going to be unemotional in analyzing his presidency, cause she is a political commentator, dontcha know! She says she doesn't suffer from Trump derangement syndrome, in that she can separate the man from the White House. Really, Elsa. Please explain. She says she has never been accused of being racist before, until recently, until Trump became President. She then goes on to say she has vivid memories of her father being called racist, of Bush, of Romney, of Jeb being called racist. Van asks her if "we" are overdoing that charge, and she says it does a disservice to "real racism". Five people clap, and she immediately says thank you. Hah! She says she doesn't think it should be thrown around, and that it hurts her when she and the Repub party are being called racists. Hey, Joy, this is all about you! You sure got under Elsa's skin. Then she quoted Jon Stewart to back her up. She wants people to stop throwing around horrible allegations, and she says she is also guilty of this. What? TBC

GHScorpiosRule · February 11, 2018

10 minutes ago, maggiemae said:

Anyone notice Van asked her why she joined TV and she said her dad thought it a good idea - when just this past week she listens to NO MAN - not even her dad or husband.

I am so done with her.

No, she said that no man speaks for her. Not the same thing.

9 minutes ago, bannana said:

VJ continued....She is wearing a very unfortunate dress. She is intimidated by all of the photos on set. She says she hasn't been on CNN in years, years. He says the country doesn't deserve her because she is a principled conservative, rooted in the best of her party. He says she continues to try and reach out and make connections and then asks the audience to give her another round of applause. Oh, Elsa, you are in your happy place now. She gets misty eyed but goes right into how easy it is to get cynical and jaded. She thanks him for the tongue bath.

They talk about her dad's cancer.

VJ shows the clip of the crazy lady at the town hall who says she can't trust Obama because he is an Arab. She talks about how her dad was being encouraged to go down the Obama is a Muslim and Jeremiah Wright. VJ wants to know where that courage to do the principled thing has gone and she says it doesn't win elections. She says some stuff about having cancer and being President, and not having that burden, and something about Trump, it was a bit of a word salad and I didn't bother rewinding.

Elsa says her dad encouraged her to take risks and get out of the echo chamber, he believes they are too insulated and "tribal". She got the call to be on The View, she said no, and he told her to say yes, to working with Whoopi, to being the one Repub. Then she apologizes for blathering on. Van wants to know if her dad gave her bad advice. He said the View is like rock em sock em robots. He asks her how it feels when they are basically implying she is a racist, and sometimes the audience is mean. Clearly this came from pre discussions with his producers. She says it is not pleasant, and the audience is mostly liberal, but then says it is a privilege to be on the show, and talks about Whoopi and Joy as legends. She says it is challenging to learn how to speak to the most extreme liberals she has ever met in her life (oh, FFS, really?). TBC

Yeah, I’m done with Van Jones. NO ONE has called Meghan a racist. And he, of all people should know not to spread or propagate lies.

He clearly has not watched her on this show.

Tanichka · February 11, 2018

13 minutes ago, bannana said:

He says the country doesn't deserve her because she is a principled conservative, rooted in the best of her party. He says she continues to try and reach out and make connections and then asks the audience to give her another round of applause. Oh, Elsa, you are in your happy place now. She gets misty eyed but goes right into how easy it is to get cynical and jaded. She thanks him for the tongue bath.

The country doesn't deserve her, but not for whatever he blathered on about. I cannot believe that he had her as a guest and that he sucked up like that. I wonder what the story is behind that!

She is not well-spoken & it's really difficult to figure out what her point is, or even if she has one. She may just be enchanted by her valley girl voice.

lexytheblasian · February 11, 2018

5 minutes ago, bannana said:

She says she doesn't suffer from Trump derangement syndrome, in that she can separate the man from the White House.

“Trump derangement syndrome” is probably another one of her failed attempts to take a stab at Joy.

bannana · February 11, 2018

Van moves the topic to immigration, and mentions that conservatives have said some racist things, and asks her what conservatives could learn to do better. She wonders why DACA cannot get approved since it has bipartisan approval. Hey, Elsa, maybe you are not a political commentator if you cannot figure that one out. She talks about her dad being the gang of eight and being smeared with racial protests. She uses the word tribal again. She then quotes Ann Coulter (she is covering all bases) saying Trump could perform an abortion in the WH as long as he stands firm on immigration. And here is my fave moment: she says, "for whatever reason, it really gins up the base, hard line, build the wall, Mexicans are rapists and criminals". Oh my, and she doesn't get why people think Repubs are racist? TBC

Edited February 11, 2018 by bannana
grammar and emphasis

lexytheblasian · February 11, 2018

1 minute ago, Tanichka said:

I cannot believe that he had her as a guest and that he sucked up like that. I wonder what the story is behind that!

The story is that her dad happens to be John McCain.

blondiec0332 · February 11, 2018

23 minutes ago, bannana said:

She says she doesn't suffer from Trump derangement syndrome, in that she can separate the man from the White House.

What the fuck does that mean? HE IS THE MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE. What kind of man he is directly affects what he is doing as president. Meghan is reaching Elisabeth levels of idiocy.

Edited February 11, 2018 by blondiec0332

bannana · February 11, 2018

Van asks her if the average conservative understands that when Kelly calls the dreamers lazy and they should get off their asses that that is painful and reprehensive. And the insightful Elsa says: I think we are going to have to at some point. HAHAHAHA! She says the face of America is changing whether you like it or not. She talks about Sunny being upset at the shithole comments, and Elsa says it really had an impact on her to see someone she respects be so upset. Oh, so that is how it works in Elsa land.

Van shows her a video of Trump's racially motivated and false statements about "chain migration". It also explains the lengthy process to get into the country (which I can vouch for as my niece is married to an American and she has been working many months on being able to join her husband in the US).

Van asks her why Jeff Flake is leaving the Senate, and Elsa says that JF is the least popular with Repubs and her father is the third least popular. She says that: we are the party of Trump right now and if you go against him as JF has, there are ramifications from the base, especially in AZ. She doesn't think Trumpism is leaving. Van says she sounds resigned. She says Trumpism has taken over, and it's difficult to come to terms with. Van points out that is possibly why all Repubs are being lumped together (IOW, if they capitulate, they are the same; wait, Van made a good point here?). She says people voted for Trump because they were disillusioned with Hillary (wait, she got 3 million more votes) or because they were worried about jobs/economy. Van changes topics, and says her dad was criticized for picking Sarah Palin. Van says maybe McCain was ahead of his time and Sarah is the new Repub party. Oh, Van, you are a fox! Elsa says Trump is lightening in a bottle and will not be emulated. TBC

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