S13.E05: Advanced Thanatology

[Diane]

Quote

BILLIE RETURNS... BUT NOT LIKE BEFORE - While working on a case involving the ghost of a demented doctor, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) get assistance from an unexpected source - Billie (guest star Lisa Berry). Castiel (Misha Collins) finds his way back to the Winchesters. Writer: Steve Yockey, Director: John F. Showalter

 

[catrox14]

[Lady Calypso]

I liked parts of this episode, but some of it didn't work. I found the case of the week fairly boring. I turned the channel whenever the guests of the week appeared, until about halfway through. 

I actually loved Sam's actions in trying to make Dean feel better. I liked Dean going to talk to the kid, I liked Sam leaving Jack behind to work with Dean on a case, and I burst out laughing when Sam suggested going to a strip club. I thought it showed the sweet brotherly side to Sam toward Dean. He really is concerned about him, and rightfully so. I do think last week opened up that for Sam, which led him to his actions this episode. I also liked Dean figuring it out once Sam mentioned a strip club. The brothers still know each other well, when the plot of the episode doesn't require them to be total morons about each other.

I think, as much as Dean is independent, he also sometimes needs his brother, especially during times of grief. He's still not thinking completely clear because he's still lost hope through his grief, so Sam has every right to be worried. Especially after his crazy plan to stop his heart. It worked, because Jensen is still a main character, but it was risky and a little stupid, especially since it didn't originally work. Once again, one of the brothers had to go through the possibility of losing the other.

It was also nice to see the return of ghosts and salt, though.

Eh on Billie being Death. I appreciate that it was about Dean, though. He got some good moments. It is disappointing that he didn't ask to go back, and he was willing to just stay dead. It's not out of character, though. We've seen Dean accept death before. 

My heart does break for the living Winchester when their brother dies, even temporarily. It's always scary for them when they think this might actually be it for them. 

I even don't mind Sam pushing the truth out of Dean at the end. It's possible that Dean would have withheld the truth and tried to deal with it himself. He needed to talk to Sam and I'm glad it happened here. Sam also listened and was incredibly supportive. It was nice for him to open up more. I like when characters progress. I know that Sam could have waited for Dean to open up. But Sam knew it maybe would have been a long time, and it gave us a really nice Dean moment. 

Of course Castiel showed up at the end. 

[Jediknight]

I'm guessing the importance of the Winchesters is to keep Jack from going evil.  If he goes evil, Heaven, Hell, and the universe will thrown completely out of whack, and with them confirming a multiverse, it would be open to attacks.  They keep Jack as a good guy, and Jack, the Winchesters, Cas and others can protect humanity and this earth.

Cas isn't Cas, no way his whole storyline is wrapped up in only episode 5.

[catrox14]

Thank the SPN universe for Steve Yockey. Yeah he had Dean kill himself to save the kids in the Veil but dammit, Dean had something meaningful to do here.

Loved his chat with Billie.

I am still convinced that something sketchy was up with Sam. He didn't seem like Sam at all. Still think Jack as in Sam. Weird.

But that was the best episode of SPN since Asa Fox IMO.

I'm so glad that Yockey gives Dean his own voice no matter what.

And yes, I am glad that Cas called Dean. The question in my mind is that still OUR Cas. We shall see.

Good episode and I'm just glad Dean seems to have a purpose again and that's to make the right moves to save his own life. Unless I misunderstood what Billie said.

Still thinking that someday Dean will become Death.

[gonzosgirrl]

Best episode in a long time. One quibble with the stupid Dean-eats-like-a-pig trope,  but on the whole, an excellent episode. Creepy as hell, although I don't think the MOTW was even close to the point of this episode. It was gut-wrenching to hear Dean's conversation with Billie, but sadly, I believed every word of it. And he's still my hero, more than ever.

And Billie as the new Death makes more sense than just about anything they've done of late.

And Jensen killed it. I even enjoyed Sam - he's so much more likeable when he just smiles/lightens up once in a while.

Edited November 10, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[Morrigan2575]

I thought the Ghost story was good, that mask was super creepy and, I really felt for the kids.

I was surprised with the ghost story wrap up but, I enjoyed the diversion. It was great seeing Billie again and I'm enjoying her new take on life...or rather Death. As a Reaper she was angry and held a grudge. However, now she sees the "bigger pictured".

I was wondering if Dean had just given up after Cas and Mary. This episode sure painted a bleak picture of Dean, after all those hits, losing Cas and Mary, he couldn't get back up.

The ending was fantastic. I was expecting a reunion but, this really hurt me, very emotional just having the music and looks.

[sugarbabex23]

This episode was just bad. I don't know who wrote this but it was so boring that I zoned out of it.

[Katy M]

First of all, since Sam asked, I think the last case they worked, just the two of them was Hitler.  someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that.

I liked this episode.  I was on the edge of my seat during the teaser and when Dean didn't come back.  Even, though I had to chide myself on that one. Duh, Katy, Dean's not going to die.

I didn't quite understand why the ghosts were upset the doctor was gone, though.  They didn't like him did they?  I also thought it was beyond stupid for Dean to kill himself to ask the ghosts where they were buried.  they had to be close by, right?  

When I first saw Billie, I thought she was going to say that the Empty was being emptied out.  I kind of like the explanation of the first reaper killed after Death becomes Death.  At least they didn't just hand wave it.  Another thing I'm confused about is why the ghosts were stuck in the first place.  A reaper showed up for Dean. What was keeping the others there?   

I think if we've learned anything from Supernatural, it's to stay away from anywhere where anything even remotely creepy took place.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

.  At least they didn't just hand wave it.  Another thing I'm confused about is why the ghosts were stuck in the first place.  A reaper showed up for Dean. What was keeping the others there?

The mom maybe not willing to believe her kid was dead?

[MysteryGuest]

I liked it.  I agree that the MOTW story was a bit weak, but it was really just a means to an end.  We got a deeper look into Dean's grief/depression.  He's been low before, but this is pretty bad.  Luckily, Cas is back, so Dean gets his win!

I enjoyed the brother relationship this week.  Sam was obviously concerned for Dean, and while certainly encouraging him to talk about his feelings, he was pretty great about it.  Dean is legitimately struggling, and neither Sam nor the narrative tried to minimize what he's going through.  I liked that.  The strip club scene was pretty funny.  For a moment there I figured Sam wasn't really Sam.

I have mixed feelings about Billie.  I didn't mind her character, and I love the actress, but the explanation for how she became Death seemed a bit contrived.  My guess is we won't see original Death again, unfortunately.  I was glad to see that Billie came around to realizing that the Winchesters were important.  Poor Dean just looked so done at that point.  

And Cas is back!  He was tearing up a bit, so now I'm back to thinking it's our Cas who's back.  He might have picked up a little something extra while in The Empty, but at least from this brief glimpse of him, he seemed genuinely overcome with emotion.  I can't see "Empty" Cas having that reaction, unless it was a total fake out, but I don't think it was.  

[MysteryGuest]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I didn't quite understand why the ghosts were upset the doctor was gone, though.  They didn't like him did they?  I also thought it was beyond stupid for Dean to kill himself to ask the ghosts where they were buried.  they had to be close by, right?

I just assumed he had trapped them somehow, just like a few other ghosts we've seen in the past.  Dean probably wasn't affected because he wasn't murdered by the ghost?  I don't know, but that makes sense to me.  I would imagine that the ghosts were a mix of dead patients of the live doctor, and others that he killed as a ghost.  It was creepy, but all asylum stories are creepy to me.  If it had been a true MOTW episode, I think they would have fleshed out his back story a bit more.  I did feel bad for the kid, though.  He didn't even want to take that damn mask in the first place.  

[Pondlass1]

This episode was all about Dean.  The monster was where it should be.. The B plot.  I loved it!  Gonna rewind and watch again. 

[catrox14]

Petition for Steve Yockey to take over as showrunner. He's written the 3 most balanced episodes of the show for the past 2 seasons.

[MysteryGuest]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Petition for Steve Yockey to take over as showrunner. He's written the 3 most balanced episodes of the show for the past 2 seasons.

I do like the way he writes both brothers.  He doesn't seem to feel the need to play one against the other.  They can both come off as decent, caring, capable people, and the story still moves forward.  There's plenty of drama in what they have yet to face that they really don't need to manufacture tension between the brothers.  I don't mind the normal ribbing and bitching they might do, because that's typical sibling stuff, but twisting their characters just to make it fit into your story really isn't necessary.  I love episodes where I can actually really like both brothers.

[catrox14]

Dean: I need a win.

Castiel calls.

I'm fine. This is fine.

http://ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.tumblr.com/post/167324839063/yourfavoritedirector-cas-calling-dean-in-13x05

Okay that looks like Cas' cry face. I'm still a little skeptical but I'll jump on board that' OURCas, train.

Also, head canon is that Cas said "Hello Dean" when he called him. If not, that better be the first thing out of Cas' mouth next week.

[Res]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Still thinking that someday Dean will become Death.

That's how it should be since Dean is the one who killed him. It's past time there should be some kind of repercussion for that. 

[Whodunnit]

Cas is back, Cas is back, Cas is back...

(Happy dance)

I too like when the brothers get to be brothers, and I appreciate the writer that gives us that.

Why didn't they carry the saltrock shotgun? They knew that they were fighting a nasty ghost, this should have been an obvious thing to have on hand.

[Diane]

21 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

Cas is back, Cas is back, Cas is back...

(Happy dance)

I too like when the brothers get to be brothers, and I appreciate the writer that gives us that.

Why didn't they carry the saltrock shotgun? They knew that they were fighting a nasty ghost, this should have been an obvious thing to have on hand.

Dean did have the shotgun, at least I am pretty sure.

[Wynne88]

Loved that Sam checked the reviews for the strip club; seemed perfectly in character.  I thought that Dean's method for talking to the ghosts was also in character with where he currently is, although I did think they went a little overboard with Dean passed out with the bra wrapped around his neck, and putting 4 lbs of bacon on his plate.  Overall, a pretty decent episode at first watch.

[Res]

25 minutes ago, Diane said:

Dean did have the shotgun, at least I am pretty sure.

He did but the ghost threw him and he lost his grip on it. Sam grabbed it up and he used while Dean finished the ghost.

This was probably the best ep in a long while but it was still pretty bad. IMO it's sad that a brother has to get so low and be bow-beat so much before the other one realizes how bad off it is. It's also pretty sad IMO that being nice and then some to the low brother is seen by said brother as something wrong or rather obviously not normal for the other brother. 

Really didn't like that they went so overboard with Dean that passed out while working a case and knowing he had to interview a kid the next morning that was so scared another teen was missing. To me, that was OOC during such a case. At least they didn't make him totally obnoxious eating even if they did go slightly overboard with that too.

So, yes, while this was a decent, semi-enjoyable episode and much better than the last 20-30 episodes, it still was pretty sad regarding the state of the brothers and Dean's psyche in general. The rest I'll take to the vs. thread.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Res

[catrox14]

I really liked the music used with Dean and Billie. Really cool.

[Commando Cody]

This episode started out looking a like an episode of Bones. I thought they were going to find someone's skull and run off.

Then it suddenly looked like another TV show.

 

Every time I saw those damn masks I thought of this. 

 

I wondered what they were going to do with the rest of the time when they killed the monster so quickly.

Also, when i saw the W, I wondered if it stood for Winchester. 

I never liked Billie. I was relieved when they killed off the character, I was disappointed when I saw she was back. I hope I like her better as Death than I did when she was a reaper. I'm more disappointed that they didn't bring back the original Death. 

They have to wait for a reaper to die to get a new Death? Seems like a bad way to choose death. The next reaper might be a real moron. Then what do you do?

The first half of this episode was kind of creepy. It almost looked like a Halloween episode. They spent a lot of time explaining how important The Winchesters are. Old death spent some time reminding them how insignificant they are. Kind of odd. 

I spent most of the episode waiting for someone to say "Are you my Mummy?"

[catrox14]

So, why didn't Cas just teleport to where Dean was? Did he come back human? Or what?

[Myrelle]

I'm still trying to recover from all the beautiful John Showalter shots of BoneWearyDean in this one. Good God.

And Mr. Yockey gave us a decent script, too. Not quite perfect, but good enough, so thank you, sir. I needed that so badly.

I love that Death and Dean remain old friends no matter whose face he/she is wearing. I've never been a big fan of Billie, but she took on some serious gravitas in her new role as Death and she wouldn't allow Dean to lay his weary head to rest even though it was what he wanted to do. Loved that. So much.

The ghost story was good and creepy. I really felt for the mom and the poor kid in this one. But yes, that was the B story. Dean and Death were what this one was all about. And Dean's need for a win that came in the form of a resurrected Cas. Lovely.

Cannot wait to re-watch this one in the morning.

[flyinghigh]

Finally!! 

Really liked the episode. And not just because it was Dean heavy. We got to understand the grief, the pain - the utter dejection Dean is going through. After the last couple of episodes where Dean is shown to be so mean to Jack, this was so overdue.

And Sam was so supportive of Dean. He finally understood how broken Dean is. I loved their conversation about the strip club. Sam is so obvious!! Loved loved that interaction.

Then Dean and Billy. Except the first episode in which Billy appeared, I never really liked Billy. I don't know - never warmed up to her character I suppose. When she was killed off, I thought she had served her purpose. But this episode, she was amazing. Very calm and controlled. I liked the way she handled Dean's grief. There is so much that had to be said about Dean's state of despair, the grief that Dean is going through and it was through her character we got a glimpse of it, IMO.

 When one Winchester is dead, it is so difficult to understand the distress, the pain, the anxiety and the nervousness of the other - no wonder death of one brings the other to the edge.

Dean made me skip a heart beat - no no no - you cannot die. Like not FOREVER. " You have work to do"

Stellar performance form Jensen!! 

The grieving mother, the troubled teen, - MOTW - I found it very interesting - kept me on edge - specially when Dean decided to die to find out about the ghosts' bodies.

About Cas returning - I still think too much importance is given to this character.  In this episode, he is a win for Dean.  So ok I suppose. But for me he is one character who comes in the category of what is dead should remain dead. 

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Petition for Steve Yockey to take over as showrunner. He's written the 3 most balanced episodes of the show for the past 2 seasons.

He is the one who wrote this episode? 

Yes please!!

[flyinghigh]

4 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

This episode was all about Dean.  The monster was where it should be.. The B plot.  I loved it!  Gonna rewind and watch again. 

love the episode too!!

4 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

My guess is we won't see original Death again, unfortunately.  

Unfortunately. 

All said and done, Billy cannot come anywhere near the original Death. 

Kuddos to the actor who played DEATH, original one that is.

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I even enjoyed Sam - he's so much more likeable when he just smiles/lightens up once in a while.

agree!!

[flyinghigh]

I liked the library of Death - maybe we will get more scenes in there.

Overall, a  decent episode. 

Maybe we should consider sending the writer a fruit basket. 

We need good writing for both Sam and Dean, and we got it in this episode.

Edited November 10, 2017 by flyinghigh

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

So, why didn't Cas just teleport to where Dean was? Did he come back human? Or what?

I haven’t seen yet, but I’d assume that his wings are still clipped? None of the angels, except possibly Lucifer, have been capable of teleporting since the fall at the end of s8? 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Wayward Son
R

[Omegamom]

Ahhh. Liked it. That ending! (I do like that Cas threatened the Empty Creature with just being too damned annoying for eternity... ;-) )

I still want the original Death back, but Billie-as-Death is better than Billie-as-Reaper.

(Hi, guys!)

Edited November 10, 2017 by Omegamom
More stuff to add.

[Roselle]

Whoever is responsible for it (Yockey?), this was a real callback to what makes SPN so addictive - it included a virtual tick-list of the essentials...Opportunities for JA's unique emotional acting to absolutely shine; a decent (albeit in the end, simple) ghost story; brotherly concern; a bit of slapstick in the dodgy mastication and sex-mad cliches; long, loving shots of the Impala (beautiful shiny reflection of the lit cross towards the end there. Oh, and a beautifully synchronised door slam - I always imagine the actors want to bust out a high 5 when they hit it so perfectly!). And CAS!!!! 

I wasn't keen on the clueless-Dean-for-plot elements - after all these years he really doesn't need his brother to tell him to burn stuff - and yes, Billie will never fill her predecessors awesome shoes, but otherwise this felt like a blast from the past, it showed a writer who actually cared, and was great.

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, Omegamom said:

Ahhh. Liked it. That ending! (I do like that Cas threatened the Empty Creature with just being too damned annoying for eternity... ;-) )

I still want the original Death back, but Billie-as-Death is better than Billie-as-Reaper.

(Hi, guys!)

It's good to see you, Omegamom. I've missed you.

[Katy M]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So, why didn't Cas just teleport to where Dean was? Did he come back human? Or what?

Well, he hasn't had wings for quite some time.  I'm not sure why they would have grown back in the Empty.

[Affogato]

10 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

 

And Cas is back!  He was tearing up a bit, so now I'm back to thinking it's our Cas who's back.  He might have picked up a little something extra while in The Empty, but at least from this brief glimpse of him, he seemed genuinely overcome with emotion.  I can't see "Empty" Cas having that reaction, unless it was a total fake out, but I don't think it was.  

I really thought that too. Of course that doesn’t mean much. Is the empty inside hi m, an alternate personality? 

What does Cas remember? 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Affogato

[gonzosgirrl]

9 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I do like the way he writes both brothers.  He doesn't seem to feel the need to play one against the other.  They can both come off as decent, caring, capable people, and the story still moves forward.  There's plenty of drama in what they have yet to face that they really don't need to manufacture tension between the brothers.  I don't mind the normal ribbing and bitching they might do, because that's typical sibling stuff, but twisting their characters just to make it fit into your story really isn't necessary.  I love episodes where I can actually really like both brothers.

Yes! I know I give Sam a lot of grief in the BvJ thread, but this episode here? This is exactly what I was talking about - not only that I actually liked both brothers, but that I felt they liked each other. I miss that so much, and the bone thrown (heh, I said bone thrown) in this episode was delicious. There's a world of difference between condescending and indulging, teasing and mocking, and it was bridged beautifully this time.

Count me among those who was not a fan of Billie (the character, not the actress), but I think bringing her in as Death was a great idea. The fact that the fourth and arguably most powerful Horseman is now a woman aside, it was a SPN-logical way of bringing back the character. No hand-waving that Dean didn't really kill Death. No she-was-really-Death-all-along. It's a bit of a simple explanation, but it works for me. I will miss Julian though - he was the best. I wonder if just the fact of becoming Death changed Billie's nature against her will (for want of a better term). She still really wants to hate the Winchesters, but something bigger than her (bigger than Death!) wants -- needs -- them in the world. But despite her own nature, she was still almost-kind to Dean, begrudgingly respectful, if exasperated. Kinda like, you know, Death. *g*

I can't say enough about Jensen's performance. I was cringing with each word that he said in his conversation with her, because I believed every one of them. I love that when he was so empty (The real Big Empty, IMO) that he didn't matter, he still thought about the ghosts trapped - and that's all he asked for. *sob*

And this right here - I want to squeeze Yockey for this:

https://twitter.com/SleepyPanda76/status/928850698531364864

Quote

Fun fact: There’s no insert shot, but the dope kit with the two syringes Dean pulls out of the duffle has a piece of masking tape on it that reads: “Dr. Robert. For Emergency.” #Supernatural

Ahhh, continuity and canon is my jam, and this is saaaweeeeeeeet!

Apart from Dean eating like a pig, and please. Just. STOP!, the only thing I didn't like about this episode is knowing that Perez is writing the follow-up. Bleh.

[companionenvy]

That last scene was so fantastic. Although yeah, missed opportunity for a "Hello Dean." 

Cas may be altered in some way. But I'm totally convinced that this is our Cas in one form or another.

[DittyDotDot]

We all need a win once in a while, don't we?

I really liked this one even though I had my hopes up for something more out-of-the-box. They did a nice job of grounding the case of the week with their characters. Nice job how they used Sam at the top of the hour as the McGuffin. It's nice when they have me guessing at the start of the episode instead of me messing around playing solitaire. It seems the show has gotten really fond of those end of the episode musical montages...not that I'm complaining.

Not sure how I feel about Billie being Death. I mean, I love Billie and all, just that if she's the new Death that means we won't get original Death back again and I do love me some Death. Plus, it seems a little too easy. Like there was no death for over a year...whatever.

I love how they showed Dean falling further and further until he hit rock bottom here. He was just so tired and weary. And, Dean asked for a win and it appears he got one. I'm guessing they will think it was Billie who brought Cass back now? Oh, and because it can't be said too much, Cass is back, baby! Love that.

10 hours ago, Katy M said:

Another thing I'm confused about is why the ghosts were stuck in the first place.  A reaper showed up for Dean. What was keeping the others there?   

I'm guessing it was like the ghosts in Asylum, they couldn't let go for some reason. Maybe it was the doctor's ghost keeping them there, or their own pain and anger, or both?

9 hours ago, Whodunnit said:

Why didn't they carry the saltrock shotgun? They knew that they were fighting a nasty ghost, this should have been an obvious thing to have on hand.

They had it, Sam was using it to shot the doctor ghost while Dean was burning the masks. And Dean had one when the doctor ghost first attacked them and threw him against the wall.

8 hours ago, Res said:

Really didn't like that they went so overboard with Dean that passed out while working a case and knowing he had to interview a kid the next morning that was so scared another teen was missing. To me, that was OOC during such a case.

Or, was it really smart to show how Dean just didn't have two shits to give anymore and was just going through the motions trying to believe he had two shits to give even if he didn't?

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So, why didn't Cas just teleport to where Dean was? Did he come back human? Or what?

I was hoping Cass had been "rebuilt" and would be back to full power--wings and all--but I guess maybe not? It should be interesting to see their explanation. 

7 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

Also, when i saw the W, I wondered if it stood for Winchester. 

Oh, I knew we were in the Winchester section, but I laughed just as hard as I did the Bobby Singers in Heaven as though everything in the universe is based off the English language. ;)

[Bobcatkitten]

It's hard to find much wrong with this episode. It hit on all cylinders. 

Dean's two major scenes - with Billie in the vault and Sam at the end - were mesmerizing to watch. Kind of like a car accident, you want to look away because it's awful and hurts but you can't.

I liked the Death explanation. I think it worked well and Billie rocked her role last night. I liked seeing Sam trying to help his brother and really listen. He pushed a bit, but in a good way. And he saved Dean from the drill. 

The scene where they are talking about the strip club was gold. The morning after was a bit over the top for Dean but I can live with it. 

Those plague masks are always creepy as hell and add a drill and it's even worse. I got a skosh confused on why the ghosts couldn't move on but I wouldn't have wanted them to cut from other areas to flesh it out. 

I see some people saying Dean was out of character to not want to go back but he has always been willing to sacrifice himself. And plus - he's suicidal guys. Nothing he does should make sense in that context. That's the point of grief and depression - it kind of takes over your life and not in a good way. 

[Boopsahoy]

11 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Best episode in a long time. One quibble with the stupid Dean-eats-like-a-pig trope,  but on the whole, an excellent episode. Creepy as hell, although I don't think the MOTW was even close to the point of this episode. It was gut-wrenching to hear Dean's conversation with Billie, but sadly, I believed every word of it. And he's still my hero, more than ever.

And Billie as the new Death makes more sense than just about anything they've done of late.

And Jensen killed it. I even enjoyed Sam - he's so much more likeable when he just smiles/lightens up once in a while.

Jensen killed me! I swear that man can make me cry with just a look.

17 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

It's hard to find much wrong with this episode. It hit on all cylinders. 

Dean's two major scenes - with Billie in the vault and Sam at the end - were mesmerizing to watch. Kind of like a car accident, you want to look away because it's awful and hurts but you can't.

I liked the Death explanation. I think it worked well and Billie rocked her role last night. I liked seeing Sam trying to help his brother and really listen. He pushed a bit, but in a good way. And he saved Dean from the drill. 

The scene where they are talking about the strip club was gold. The morning after was a bit over the top for Dean but I can live with it. 

Those plague masks are always creepy as hell and add a drill and it's even worse. I got a skosh confused on why the ghosts couldn't move on but I wouldn't have wanted them to cut from other areas to flesh it out. 

I see some people saying Dean was out of character to not want to go back but he has always been willing to sacrifice himself. And plus - he's suicidal guys. Nothing he does should make sense in that context. That's the point of grief and depression - it kind of takes over your life and not in a good way. 

I swear just before he had the idea to kill himself I turned to my husband and said Dean seems almost suicidal...Jensen really played the last couple of episodes in such a way to make it believable.

[Pondlass1]

I've watched it 3 times in a row.  Haven't done that since Regarding Dean.  You see little things - like when they're creeping forward with flashlights, Dean checks behind him - as anyone would in real life, but in TV-land the creeping person in a creepy house rarely looks behind. Jensen does this stuff.

I wasn't keen on the actress portraying Billie at first.  I thought she overdid it.  But I loved those Bone Weary Dean scenes last night.   Jensen brings out the best in fellow actors.  It was a brilliant scene.  As was the scene with Sam.   And it was cool that Dean was given the job of talking to the kid.  And - YAY - we didn't have to sit through the life history of the monster in the mask.  And the Baby shots were beautifully done.

I'm so happy this morning I'm not even going to harp on Dean (again) with food dangling from those sumptious lips.

Hope the ratings are good.  Anyway, I'm a happy camper this morning despite waking up to 5 cm of snow !  Thank you Yokey! Dabb must've been on holiday or something when this  episode was produced....

Edited November 10, 2017 by Pondlass1

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I've watched it 3 times in a row.  Haven't done that since Regarding Dean.  You see little things - like when they're creeping forward with flashlights, Dean checks behind him - as anyone would in real life, but in TV-land the creeping person in a creepy house rarely looks behind. Jensen does this stuff.

I wasn't keen on the actress portraying Billie at first.  I thought she overdid it.  But I loved those Bone Weary Dean scenes last night.   Jensen brings out the best in fellow actors.  It was a brilliant scene.  As was the scene with Sam.   And it was cool that Dean was given the job of talking to the kid.  And - YAY - we didn't have to sit through the life history of the monster in the mask.  

I'm so happy this morning I'm not even going to harp on Dean (again) with food dangling from those sumptious lips.

Hope the ratings are good.  Anyway, I'm a happy camper this morning despite waking up to 5 cm of snow !  Thank you Yokey! Dabb must've been on holiday or something when this  episode was produced....

I fear a little for this - I never saw it trending on Twitter in the three hours of airing, and I saw Grey's Anatomy/Grey's 300th with 3 of the top 10 trends for much of that time. I never feel like the ratings have as much to do with the airing episode as it does with the week(s) before - ie, give me a reason to tune in next week. I just hope whatever it is, it doesn't discourage them from more writing and attention to details like this one.

I was also v v happy that Dean told Sam what happened with only a little push. Only good can come from them being up front with each other.

[Myrelle]

I loved that Dean's reaper was was all "Oh no! Dean Winchester is in the Veil..." and then Death showed up.

[catrox14]

So that beautiful episode really happened? I wasn't dreaming?

I still laugh that Sam trying to cheer Dean up seems OOC to me. Ah well. Guess I was wrong about him being possesed by Jack. I appreciate it none the less.

Yockey impresses me. He treats all the characters with "respect" by which I mean he doesn't diminish one to give another a voice. They all feel fully realized  and important to the piece even if not the center of the story.

Cas wasnt on screen but his important was felt despite his absence because of his relationship to Dean.

Edited November 10, 2017 by catrox14

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Wow!  I was really blown away by this one.  @Diane, I think you had a good one to finally watch live!  I felt like it hit all the right notes, starting with the good creepy ghost story.  Plus, plague masks always make everything more sinister to me.  Another weird Lore reference/coincidence maybe?  Episode 6 of the podcast, to which I listened earlier this week, was about Dr. Walter Freeman, “the father of the icepick lobotomy”.  Check him out:

There’s the ghost.  I wonder if the writers have been listening to Lore also?  For the “You know You watch too much SPN thread: I can’t help but think what a great spn episode that would make with every podcast ep I hear.  But back to our show:

At first, I was sure that Jack had somehow taken over Sam’s body in order to get out of the bunker for a while and make Dean like him more.  But the researching a strip club’s reviews gave him away.  Such a wonderfully weird, cute Sam thing to do and Jack wouldn’t know that.  Still, it was fun to get a few extra insights into Sam’s character.  Last year we finally learned some of Sam’s actual musical tastes and now it’s movies and self-deprecating humor. 

I’ve got to admit, I’m not crazy about Billie now being Death – but mainly only because that means I probably won’t get Julian Richings back, and I do want him back again!  So I might have to fanwank that the Real Death is hanging out eating pizza in Chicago taking a well-deserved break (especially after dealing with the Winchesters and their penchant for starting apocalypses) and letting Billie ‘play’ Death for a time like Dean had to play Death for a day back in S6 – maybe to teach her a lesson also, since I think it’s wonderfully ironic that with her promotion, Billie got some insider info about the Winchesters and all her threats about not letting them come back next time they died were for naught.  Oh, how that must rankle!  Lol.  I did like everything she said though, especially about Dean being important.  I also imagine there was a similar alarm set off back in Red Meat when Dean ‘killed’ himself: ‘Dean Winchester is in the veil!’.  That is NOT supposed to happen.  I’m surprised there weren’t alarms blaring and red lights flashing too. 

I completely empathize with Dean when he said he just needed a win.  I’ve felt that way myself a time or two.  I imagine most of us have at one time or another. 

The end was just perfect. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by RulerofallIsurvey

[Pondlass1]

12 hours ago, catrox14 said:

http://ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.tumblr.com/post/167324839063/yourfavoritedirector-cas-calling-dean-in-13x05 

Cas calling Dean in 13x05

Jesus fuck let’s talk about THE LIGHT hitting Dean’s face as he realizes who it is????? WHAT A FUCKING PERFECT BIT VISUAL.

Yeah - the point she makes about the light hitting Dean's face at that moment.  Loads of little attention to detail morsels like that.  It was a well crafted beautiful thing.  Overhead shots, beautiful Baby... things like that.... They must've found some unspent budget somewhere.

[Diane]

What a beautiful episode.  The camera work was just amazing, it was shot so well. Sam trying anything to try and help Dean, loved him yelping strip clubs, too funny. The MOTW was legit creepy.  Dean sacrificing himself to save other people, just another day.  Loved that it is still being pointed out that he work that they do is important, that Dean is still needed.  He needed to hear that and yes we all need a win every once in a while.  Cas is back!!!!

[strippedhalo]

I was cringing a bit for Dean during the first half, with the eating and the passing out and the needing Sam to tell him to burn all the masks, but I think this episode more than made up for that in the second half.  I did not like reaper!Billie at all, but Death!Billie is much better so far.

Some little funny moments, too.  Dean trying to get the motel doors to open by waving his hands at a non-existent sensor cracked me up, as did the reaper's little freak out at realizing there was a Winchester in the veil.  And Sam reading strip club reviews, awwww.

Edited November 10, 2017 by strippedhalo

[Aeryn13]

Wow, the first decent episode in a long while. We may have lost Glynn but so far we haven`t lost Yockey. And he delivered a much needed win for me.

Not everything was perfect but it was so much better than the last few episodes. The ghost story was actually pretty good and creepy.

I also liked Billie far more than in her previous appearances but it always followed the same spiel:  snarky remark and threats - helping anyway - snarky remark and threats. Now that she sees the bigger picture, she has a lot more gravitas. I really enjoyed her convo with Dean. Who wasn`t suicidal per se but accepting of death because of his wearyness. That seems to throw her for a loop.

Didn`t have that much of a problem with Dean "killing" himself as, at that point, he fully expected to come back and it was clearly done just to work the case. Was it a big, perhaps unnecessary risk? Maybe. But it was a clear distinction between that risk and how accepting he became once Billie entered the picture.

The reaper being all "Dean Winchester is in the veil" was awesome. It reminded me a bit of "Dean Winchester is saved". The brothers truly have become known players on the cosmic board.

Okay, so the gross eating and sleeping on the floor, snoring stuff was too OTT humor to me but the show has really done this for many years now and it is much easier to forgive in an otherwise good episode.

We also got a Deansel in distress moment, making that 5 for 5 this Season but in the context of this episode, at least it made sense. 

I liked the win with Cas being back. Having the scene like this, just musical montage, no word and simply staring at each other from the distance made it more impactful to me.

I liked Sam fine in this episode but I also found him to be completely different to the Sam in episodes 1-4 who pushed and pushed and pushed.

Overall, a much appreciated win from Yockey. Kudos, dude.       

[Pondlass1]

33 minutes ago, strippedhalo said:

Dean trying to get the motel doors to open by waving his hands at a non-existent sensor

Bet that was an ad lib.  

[gonzosgirrl]

26 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Didn`t have that much of a problem with Dean "killing" himself as, at that point, he fully expected to come back and it was clearly done just to work the case. Was it a big, perhaps unnecessary risk? Maybe. But it was a clear distinction between that risk and how accepting he became once Billie entered the picture.  

I know it's giving way too much depth to a show that doesn't much earn the assumption any more, but part of me wonders if maybe Dean secretly hoped, even just a little, that by dying, he would meet a reaper and get an answer one way or the other about Mary's fate. In hindsight, I'm surprised that wasn't what he asked for in his deal with Billie. It's kind of crazy that he just happened to have Dr. Robert's kit-o-death in his back pocket. Which begs another question I will take to the All Episodes thread...