S02.E08: The Greatest Good

[Guest]

Quote

Leah and Mike sit down with Mimi Faust and Christi Gordon, whose mothers dedicated much of their lives to the Sea Org; the women share their harrowing stories of neglect and abandonment.

[LilWharveyGal]

Here's a little bit of background on the two guests who will be featured tonight.

[mbaywife123]

i have so much to say, but and backing off as not to offened anyone here. CO$ is evil to the core of it's demented founder LOONY RON Huckster.

[DrivingSideways]

Halfway through this episode.  I don't watch Love & Hip Hop so I wasn't familiar with Mimi Faust prior to this.  Her story is heart wrenching, and she's so magnetic.  A&E, please have Mimi host this show with Leah and Mike from now on.

Wow, as crazy as Mimi's story was, Christi's was even more intense.  It is a testament to the human spirit that these people that have been rejected by their mother, supposedly the closest bond one can have, are able to find love and community elsewhere.

Edited October 18, 2017 by DrivingSideways

[red12]

I empathize with Mimi particularly because I was raised in a predominantly white educational environment and understand how isolating and psychologically damaging it can be to experience a high level of racially based isolation. My family did believe and support me though. I cannot imagine if I did not at least have that protection for my mind and soul.

I have also seen how susceptible my mother can be to extreme religious dogma and charismatic figures. I am thankful that we did not encounter the "perfect storm" of circumstances that would have caused her to betray me to the level these people's parents did. I am reminded when I watch this show how these people could have been me and feel deep compassion for their pain.

[Ruprecht]

That was was hellishly creepy when Mimi talked about being in that room with the Sea Org members chanting for her to sign the agreement. Imagine being so happy after years of separation to have a nice visit with your mother only to have those robots show up. I can only imagine how much of a scene she made for them to open that door and let her go. Just thinking about that stresses me out. 

It was really helpful for Mike to explain why people become ineligible for Sea Org and how the CO$ invents ways to get around the drug history requirements. And I was glad he acknowledged "What these mothers did to their children, I did to mine." 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Ruprecht

[veronicamers]

Wow, I could feel these ladies' pain emanating from the screen. Christi in particular seems like she's dealing with a great deal of trauma as a result of the sexual abuse she suffered. I could physically feel her anxiety...there were moments she seemed to be having a panic attack.

These gals should be extremely proud of themselves for creating their adult lives out of nothing...no emotional, physical, or financial support. No education.

My sister and I joke we were raised by wolves as our parents were aloof, distant, withholding, narcissistic...People will meet our parents and say "Wow. How did you and your sister turn out so normal?" These gals not only had the lack of real support and love, they had an entire cult conspiring to make their lives a living hell. How sickening.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yes, another episode that should make existing Scientology members hang their head in shame and come clean about the farce.  I must admit that I really can relate to much of what they experienced due to my parents joining a church during my childhood that I consider a cult.  Total devotion to what the church says and no real allegiance to your kids if they don't get in line.  Some kids like me, make it out, but, some don't. Mental illness, self harm, substance abuse, relationship issues, etc.  HOW did they make it without an education? That's the big mystery for me.  

There's another thing that I question and that is why the church is hellbent on MINORS signing contracts?  Don't they realize that it's voidable by the minor?  If they change their mind, it's not enforceable.  And probably voidable due to  unconscionability and coercion too.  I guess the church trust the kids won't ever know their real rights. 

I'm just so impressed with this series.  It never disappoints.  And good to see Leah getting work on her new show. (sitcom)

Edited October 18, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[2727]

I've never heard of Mimi so had no preconceptions of her, but she's the first participant on the show that I gave a little side eye to. I just don't see how she was able to couch surf for more than a year ... how many school friends does a 13-year-old have, anyway? Who paid for her school tuition, not to mention toiletries, underwear, haircuts, shoes, etc. She really had zero idea how to get a hold of her older siblings or other family members?

To emphasize, I don't doubt her pain and abandonment, but I wouldn't be shocked to find out she had glossed over some of the details of how she survived, and what help she received.

Comments are down around here. I wonder if a bit of fatigue is setting in.

[SunnyBeBe]

I do wonder about some details at times that sound odd, but, I have to consider how reasonable the story.  I do believe most of what is described.  Granted, it sounds odd that a teen could hang out with friends for years, but, I have actually seen people who do it.  Regardless, she was a minor and they can't be held to the same standard as an adult, in my mind. I wasn't familiar with Mimi either, so, I have no context with which to absorb her story., other than what was revealed on this episode. 

Did the other lady reveal what was wrong with her mother?  She said she had lost touch with reality, but, I wondered why. Does she have dementia,  Schizophrenia, etc. ?

Edited October 18, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, 2727 said:

I've never heard of Mimi so had no preconceptions of her, but she's the first participant on the show that I gave a little side eye to. I just don't see how she was able to couch surf for more than a year ... how many school friends does a 13-year-old have, anyway? Who paid for her school tuition, not to mention toiletries, underwear, haircuts, shoes, etc. She really had zero idea how to get a hold of her older siblings or other family members?

To emphasize, I don't doubt her pain and abandonment, but I wouldn't be shocked to find out she had glossed over some of the details of how she survived, and what help she received.

Comments are down around here. I wonder if a bit of fatigue is setting in.

 

32 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I do wonder about some details at times that sound odd, but, I have to consider how reasonable the story.  I do believe most of what is described.  Granted, it sounds odd that a teen could hang out with friends for years, but, I have actually seen people who do it.  Regardless, she was a minor and they can't be held to the same standard as an adult, in my mind. I wasn't familiar with Mimi either, so, I have no context with which to absorb her story., other than what was revealed on this episode. 

Did the other lady reveal what was wrong with her mother?  She said she had lost touch with reality, but, I wondered why. Does she have dementia,  Schizophrenia, etc. ?

I have to admit for the first time I found myself wondering about Mimi.  There was something off putting about her on the ads they've run all season which feature her.  I didn't feel a lot of sincerity in them for some reason.  Her story was horrible and I can totally believe that it happened.  But, I do have qualms about it, and that hasn't been the case before.  She didn't have any friends and yet she had enough that she could couch surf for a long time.  How did she wash her clothes?  How many people at that school that was supposedly so racist would allow their children to just bring a random kid home with no notice?  How did she past the disconnection policies?  Did no one in sh..ientology notice she was still going to a sch...intology school?  And, like someone said above,how could she have lost touch with her siblings?  She didn't say her mom disconnected from them?  Why didn't her mom disconnect from her?  Why didn't the school or the families?

I just have a lot of questions about this one; I wish I didn't because the story is awful and she deserves to be believed. But, I do.

[LilWharveyGal]

1 hour ago, 2727 said:

Comments are down around here. I wonder if a bit of fatigue is setting in.

Thanks to A&E's schedule change, the show is now on past my bedtime and I have to watch the recording (and comment) a day or two later.  I wonder if others are in the same boat.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, 2727 said:

Comments are down around here. I wonder if a bit of fatigue is setting in.

Could be fatigue, but for me, the problem is A&E's dumb decisions to run the second airing at unbelievably inconvenient times.

[SunnyBeBe]

39 minutes ago, smorbie said:

 

I have to admit for the first time I found myself wondering about Mimi.  There was something off putting about her on the ads they've run all season which feature her.  I didn't feel a lot of sincerity in them for some reason.  Her story was horrible and I can totally believe that it happened.  But, I do have qualms about it, and that hasn't been the case before.  She didn't have any friends and yet she had enough that she could couch surf for a long time.  How did she wash her clothes?  How many people at that school that was supposedly so racist would allow their children to just bring a random kid home with no notice?  How did she past the disconnection policies?  Did no one in sh..ientology notice she was still going to a sch...intology school?  And, like someone said above,how could she have lost touch with her siblings?  She didn't say her mom disconnected from them?  Why didn't her mom disconnect from her?  Why didn't the school or the families?

I just have a lot of questions about this one; I wish I didn't because the story is awful and she deserves to be believed. But, I do.

Valid points, but, I have known teens who are able to stay with friends for long periods of time.  A lot of parents don't watch their kids that close and you can do your laundry, raid the fridge, etc.  AND if she wasn't accurate what other explanation is there?  Recall that the church CLAIMED that Mimi's mother made arrangements for her care in someone's home.  Really?  How would that work?  Mimi's mom was all wrapped up in Sea Org.  How would she have nonScientology friends who were willing to take custody of a teen for 4 years?  And without PAY?  It's my understanding that they don't get a salary, so how would Mimi's mom pay some nonScientology friend to take care of her daughter?  And, I can't see the church paying money for it.  So, I'm not sure what other explanation there could be.  To me, it's odd that CPS wasn't involved. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Diane Mars]

I think that, regarding the "children help", the next EP will be insightful ;)

The thing is that you NEVER have to forget that those people have been damaged, brainwashed, etc... But they are ALL victims.

An example, not sciento related, but really close :'( Let's take an divrorced couple, one child. The mom had the full custody, leaves in the same building that her ex-business office. The mother, a part of accepting an indecent alimony, doesn't let the father take part in anything education related... BUT, the problem is that the mother has a BF in another country and never cared to let her son alone. The son is now 18 y.o. And that's his life since he's 10 y.o. His mother goes away for a few ays, leaves him some money in order to buy food, and that's it. NONE stepped in !!!!! How I know that ? My son in law is his friend, and try to help him to feel "someone who counts" in this world.

No cult, no religion, nothing involved.... Only a selfish and crazy mother. And a coward cokedhead father (even if he's a nice guy, he's a coward !)

[SunnyBeBe]

What I find so incredible is that the KIDS see how convoluted the situation is and the ADULTS do not!  I recall sitting in church and listening to this BS garbage, when I was 10 years old and wondering WHEN  my parents were going to get up and leave the building.  I mean, I was a CHILD and I saw through the BS.  But, my parents STAYED and joined in.  It's unfortunate that adults don't have better judgment and security in their own ability to detect predators.   And after all of these kids, escaped, grew up, and REPORTED it, why no charges against these abusers? What about violation of human slavery?  Child labor law violations?  

[smorbie]

41 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Valid points, but, I have known teens who are able to stay with friends for long periods of time.  A lot of parents don't watch their kids that close and you can do your laundry, raid the fridge, etc.  AND if she wasn't accurate what other explanation is there?  Recall that the church CLAIMED that Mimi's mother made arrangements for her care in someone's home.  Really?  How would that work?  Mimi's mom was all wrapped up in Sea Org.  How would she have nonScientology friends who were willing to take custody of a teen for 4 years?  And without PAY?  It's my understanding that they don't get a salary, so how would Mimi's mom pay some nonScientology friend to take care of her daughter?  And, I can't see the church paying money for it.  So, I'm not sure what other explanation there could be.  To me, it's odd that CPS wasn't involved. 

I know.  I appreciate the help trying to understand it.  I don't doubt that she was thrown out of her mom's house.  I just have questions about what she did afterward.  I do hope that it was the case that she was to stay with people.  I remember the story of the young man, Michael Orr, whose story was so brilliantly told in the Blind Side.  I know God puts angels out there to help some of these lost children, and I hope she was able to find that help.  I just wish they'd talked enough specifics for me to be able to put it all together in my mind.

[SunnyBeBe]

Maybe more details well come out later.  I wonder if the adults who helped her are intimidated to reveal their identify. I'd be careful too.  This group seems to operate with impunity in CA and FL.  I mean, they treat kids any old way and nothing really happens to them.  Very odd, indeed.  

Edited October 18, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[red12]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yes, another episode that should make existing Scientology members hang their head in shame and come clean about the farce.  I must admit that I really can relate to much of what they experienced due to my parents joining a church during my childhood that I consider a cult.  Total devotion to what the church says and no real allegiance to your kids if they don't get in line.  Some kids like me, make it out, but, some don't. Mental illness, self harm, substance abuse, relationship issues, etc.  HOW did they make it without an education? That's the big mystery for me.  

There's another thing that I question and that is why the church is hellbent on MINORS signing contracts?  Don't they realize that it's voidable by the minor?  If they change their mind, it's not enforceable.  And probably voidable due to  unconscionability and coercion too.  I guess the church trust the kids won't ever know their real rights. 

I'm just so impressed with this series.  It never disappoints.  And good to see Leah getting work on her new show. (sitcom)

I have wondered about the minors signing contracts thing too. Like you, I believe it is 1) the kids don't know it's illegal and will receive no education so, as adults who have been programmed by the cult, there is very little likelihood that they will rebel. I think this is why after a certain point, the church workers allow people to leave. They know if things get to a point where police are involved, they are toast. 2) CO$ is desperate for membership. They are wealthy, but do not have nearly the members they say they do and new converts are few and far between. I bet the internet and this show will make it even harder for them to recruit anyone except the most desperate Hollywood social climber or homeless person.

[Absurda]

The ability to mistreat and abandon children without consequences is likely one of the great benefits of an insular cult that does not permit members to criticize each other or the “church”. The authorities wouldn’t know about any individual case unless someone reported it to them, and who is going to do that?

The “church” certainly won’t since they are the ones forcing these things to take place. Other Scientologists won’t because they are not allowed to criticize the “church” or other Scientologists. Reporting someone to the authorities would be criticism. Plus, the “church” teaches that kids are like mini-adults and anything bad happening to then is their own fault. Add to that a mistrust of government and no one in the religion would report this to anyone if they even thought it was wrong (the kids’ parents sure didn’t).

In the Ranches episode they mentioned that when authorities came they shipped the less cooperative kids off camping and only left the reliable, parrot kids to talk to the authorities. Plus, when survivors come forward, the “church” says either “they aren’t affiliated with us” or “that was shut down” or both.

The kids themselves may not report it because they see their current situation as better than being in the system, the only people they know are Scientologists or they don’t know how to report it or who to report it to. Not to mention the “church” would likely brand then liars and runaways. Once the kids are grown up, it’s too late.

As for Mimi not being able to contact her siblings, I could see that. She was 13 when she was thrown out. This was likely before the age of cell phones so she would have needed it written down. At 13 she may not have had an address book or something with her sib’s contact info; I wouldn’t have.

[italianguy626]

18 minutes ago, Absurda said:

As for Mimi not being able to contact her siblings, I could see that. She was 13 when she was thrown out. This was likely before the age of cell phones so she would have needed it written down. At 13 she may not have had an address book or something with her sib’s contact info; I wouldn’t have.

This was state-of-the-art in cellphones in 1989, the year Mimi turned 13 (she was born in 1976). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_MicroTAC

Hella expensive, IIRC, for the phone and for the cell service. I also agree that at 13 she probably wouldn't have contact info for her siblings, especially if they were both out of the house when she got moved to California. She didn't say it, but maybe mom disconnected from her siblings and didn't have current contact info, or wouldn't share it, herself.

I could believe that she was getting by couch surfing. All it would take was a quick explanation to an understanding friend's parent(s) that she got put on the street by her mother. I grew up with kids that slept at each other's homes all the time, even during the school year (my own parents only allowed me to sleep over places or have a friend sleep over every now and then, and never during the school year). I also read somewhere that she connected with her birth father when she was 16, so maybe she got some support in her later teen years from him?

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, Absurda said:

The ability to mistreat and abandon children without consequences is likely one of the great benefits of an insular cult that does not permit members to criticize each other or the “church”. The authorities wouldn’t know about any individual case unless someone reported it to them, and who is going to do that?

The “church” certainly won’t since they are the ones forcing these things to take place. Other Scientologists won’t because they are not allowed to criticize the “church” or other Scientologists. Reporting someone to the authorities would be criticism. Plus, the “church” teaches that kids are like mini-adults and anything bad happening to then is their own fault. Add to that a mistrust of government and no one in the religion would report this to anyone if they even thought it was wrong (the kids’ parents sure didn’t).

 

In the Ranches episode they mentioned that when authorities came they shipped the less cooperative kids off camping and only left the reliable, parrot kids to talk to the authorities. Plus, when survivors come forward, the “church” says either “they aren’t affiliated with us” or “that was shut down” or both.

 

The kids themselves may not report it because they see their current situation as better than being in the system, the only people they know are Scientologists or they don’t know how to report it or who to report it to. Not to mention the “church” would likely brand then liars and runaways. Once the kids are grown up, it’s too late.

 

As for Mimi not being able to contact her siblings, I could see that. She was 13 when she was thrown out. This was likely before the age of cell phones so she would have needed it written down. At 13 she may not have had an address book or something with her sib’s contact info; I wouldn’t have.

Consider the 2nd generation scientologist.  He has been brought up in scientology schools, is not allowed to watch television that might be problematic for scientologists, gets NO news whatsoever because someone might mention the word (WORD!) scientology, and isn't allowed to discuss his or his parents' progress up the bridge.

Would that child even know anything about CPS?

[SunnyBeBe]

Good point, but, upthread, I meant that if Mimi was on the streets at 13-14, that someone might have called CPS.  And she wasn't enrolled in school.  There are laws about that. And you have to have your birth certificate to enroll, so.....it was a lot of issues for none of the authorities to have gotten involved.  But, it happens. Look at the kids of famous celebrities who grow up in all kinds of hell and people just look the other way.  

Edited October 18, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[ParadoxLost]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Valid points, but, I have known teens who are able to stay with friends for long periods of time.  A lot of parents don't watch their kids that close and you can do your laundry, raid the fridge, etc.  AND if she wasn't accurate what other explanation is there?  Recall that the church CLAIMED that Mimi's mother made arrangements for her care in someone's home.  Really?  How would that work?  Mimi's mom was all wrapped up in Sea Org.  How would she have nonScientology friends who were willing to take custody of a teen for 4 years?  And without PAY?  It's my understanding that they don't get a salary, so how would Mimi's mom pay some nonScientology friend to take care of her daughter?  And, I can't see the church paying money for it.  So, I'm not sure what other explanation there could be.  To me, it's odd that CPS wasn't involved. 

I actually wonder if she was sleeping on the couches of Scientologists.  Wasn't the school she went back to because she didn't know where to go run by Scientologists?  If that is the case, it doesn't seem like they pushed beyond making her homeless.  I wonder if there is enough of a difference between SeaOrg and regular Scientologists that non SeaOrg Sientologists are used to unsupervised Sea Org member's kids hanging around and the "they are adults" thing stops them from getting anymore involved than letting them crash from time to time.

 

9 hours ago, Ruprecht said:

That was was hellishly creepy when Mimi talked about being in that room with the Sea Org members chanting for her to sign the agreement. Imagine being so happy after years of separation to have a nice visit with your mother only to have those robots show up. I can only imagine how much of a scene she made for them to open that door and let her go. Just thinking about that stresses me out. 

That was weird even for Scientology so I looked at Mimi's wiki.  It seems like the timeline fits with when Mimi appeared in a Pharell/Jay Z music video. So that explains it. The reconciliation was BS.  It was a recruitment of someone Scientology adjacent that they thought might gain some celebrity.

[SunnyBeBe]

I don't know about her staying with other ScientologistS, AFTER they escorted her off the Sea org property.  Maybe.....I thought that you couldn't associate with a "SUPPRESSIVE PERSON".  It's sort of like their bad energy creates negativity that blocks you from clearing the planet.   I think that's their language. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

And after all of these kids, escaped, grew up, and REPORTED it, why no charges against these abusers? What about violation of human slavery?  Child labor law violations?  

Yeah.... sadly no. 

Look up Tranquility Bay or Spring Creek Lodge Academy or Cross Creek or just WWASP. 

It's pretty much perfectly legal to have your children locked up in residential boarding schools for "treatment". The schools I am mentioning? Aren't Scientology related. Kids actually died at Tranquility Bay. There's been multiple lawsuits with very few wins for the victims because their parents paid for their schooling and 'therapy'. In the eyes of the law, a bunch of kids pushing boulders around with an adult supervising isn't "slave labor", it's "caring parents paying for a unique school experience".

And sadly the statute of limitations probably doesn't help. And most of these kids don't come out of these places with real skills or with any support structure so they end up looking like unreliable complainers who maybe do drugs... not great witnesses. 

[Rlb8031]

32 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Good point, but, upthread, I meant that if Mimi was on the streets at 13-14, that someone might have called CPS.  And she wasn't enrolled in school.  There are laws about that. And you have to have your birth certificate to enroll, so.....it was a lot of issues for none of the authorities to have gotten involved.  But, it happens. Look at the kids of famous celebrities who grow up in all kinds of hell and people just look the other way.  

Here is an article from 2012 where she talks about her experience in slightly more details. It seems that the school she was in (which was run by the same folks that ran the Ranches), was home to not only kids of SeaOrg members, but more importantly the kids of rich CO$ members like the Haggis', the Archers, the Travoltas, etc. So if you believe that those folks raise their kids the Scientology way, then when those kids show up at home with another kid no one asks "where's your mom, what are you doing here, do your folks know you spent the night, etc." And when you think LA rich folks generally, even among non-CO$ members the number of free range kids (think about those Bling Ring kids a few years back) seems higher than one would normally expect. I have no doubt she was able to survive for a bit. More importantly, she said that the first person she stayed with ultimately gave her a job as a teen so she was able to have cash to support herself. Most importantly, she was seemingly never named a suppressive person, she was just kicked out of SeaOrg housing once she refused to be a member. So other CO$ could still associate with her, which is why she was allowed to continue going to their school.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2012/08/08/voice-exclusive-vh1s-mimi-faust-on-scientology-at-13-they-told-me-i-was-a-freeloader/

Edited October 19, 2017 by Rlb8031

[WInterfalls]

43 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don't know about her staying with other ScientologistS, AFTER they escorted her off the Sea org property.  Maybe.....I thought that you couldn't associate with a "SUPPRESSIVE PERSON".  It's sort of like their bad energy creates negativity that blocks you from clearing the planet.   I think that's their language. 

That would only be if she is a DECLARED SP. She wasn't declared she just wasn't allowed to stay on SO property without joining the SO. 

 

44 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

Here is an article from 2012 where she talks about her experience in slightly more details. It seems that the school she was in (which was run by the same folks that ran the Ranches), was home to not only kids of SeaOrg members, but more importantly the kids of rich CO$ members like the Haggis', the Archers, the Travoltas, etc. So if you believe that those folks raise their kids the Scientology way, then when those kids show up at home with another kid no one asks "where's your mom, what are you doing here, do your folks know you spent the night, etc." And when you think LA rich folks generally, even among non-CO$ members the number of free range kids (think about those Bling Ring kids a few years back) seems higher than one would normally expect. I have no doubt she was able to survive for a bit. More importantly, she said that the first person she stayed with ultimately gave her a job as a teen so she was able to have cash to support herself. Most importantly, she was seemingly never named a suppressive person, she was just kicked out of SeaOrg housing once she refused to be a member. So other CO$ could still associate with her, which is why she was allowed to continue going to their school.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2012/08/08/voice-exclusive-vh1s-mimi-faust-on-scientology-at-13-they-told-me-i-was-a-freeloader/

Yes ok this gives us more context.  I never really questioned her story just figured they didn't get into the details all that much.  And NO ONE in her circle would ever have suggested CPS be called or anything like that.  Reporting a Scientologist to the authorities is a High Crime after all.   

[juliet73]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I do wonder about some details at times that sound odd, but, I have to consider how reasonable the story.  I do believe most of what is described.  Granted, it sounds odd that a teen could hang out with friends for years, but, I have actually seen people who do it.  Regardless, she was a minor and they can't be held to the same standard as an adult, in my mind. I wasn't familiar with Mimi either, so, I have no context with which to absorb her story., other than what was revealed on this episode. 

Did the other lady reveal what was wrong with her mother?  She said she had lost touch with reality, but, I wondered why. Does she have dementia,  Schizophrenia, etc. ?

 

7 hours ago, 2727 said:

I've never heard of Mimi so had no preconceptions of her, but she's the first participant on the show that I gave a little side eye to. I just don't see how she was able to couch surf for more than a year ... how many school friends does a 13-year-old have, anyway? Who paid for her school tuition, not to mention toiletries, underwear, haircuts, shoes, etc. She really had zero idea how to get a hold of her older siblings or other family members?

To emphasize, I don't doubt her pain and abandonment, but I wouldn't be shocked to find out she had glossed over some of the details of how she survived, and what help she received.

 

I believe Mimi's story.  She joined the Co$ 30 years ago so I think she might be fuzzy on some of the details which is understandable.  I thought her one (only) friend was a non $cientologist, but I didn't understand how they could have met because she was always at the Co$. Also, why would she have the friend's phone number, but not her brother or sister's?  Also, I didn't understand how Mimi was able to come back and go to school?  That didn't make any sense at all.

Mimi also said she did some horrible things in her life so I wouldn't be surprised if she was "with" people just to have a place to stay for a few days.  

It sounded to me like Mimi's mom was under some kind of hypnosis when it came to her daughter.  She mentioned that her mom would be "zoned out" when it came to her to sign the contract and also when she was escorted off the property. 

As for Christi, my heart broke for her.  Everything she said was just awful. I didn't understand why the grandmother allowed this to happen to her and her sister.  I didn't think Grandma was a $cientologist.  

I think Christi's mom literally went mad!  

[pinguina]

Christi and Mimi's childhoods were awful!  I can't imagine a parent (mother or father) who would callously abandon their child. Yes, I know it happens in this world but it still boggles the mind.  One of the saddest part for me was how Mimi kept hoping her mom would speak out and grab her and say that they were both leaving.  The heartbreak she must have felt when she realized it wan never going to happen~~  I just can't imagine it.  Also Christi talked about the unsafe places that she was left and her mother being clueless and blaming her and her sister.  But I guess that is part of the "laws" of this cult.  That a  person is to blame for being caught in a situation where they have no power or voice to change it.  

[Neurochick]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Valid points, but, I have known teens who are able to stay with friends for long periods of time.  A lot of parents don't watch their kids that close and you can do your laundry, raid the fridge, etc.  AND if she wasn't accurate what other explanation is there?  Recall that the church CLAIMED that Mimi's mother made arrangements for her care in someone's home.  Really?  How would that work?  Mimi's mom was all wrapped up in Sea Org.  How would she have nonScientology friends who were willing to take custody of a teen for 4 years?  And without PAY?  It's my understanding that they don't get a salary, so how would Mimi's mom pay some nonScientology friend to take care of her daughter?  And, I can't see the church paying money for it.  So, I'm not sure what other explanation there could be.  To me, it's odd that CPS wasn't involved. 

I don't get all these questions about Mimi, it feels as though people think she's lying or something.  I think she may have had to do some not good things in order to survive; maybe she didn't want to share those with a very judge-ey public.

[Maelstrom]

16 minutes ago, pinguina said:

But I guess that is part of the "laws" of this cult.  That a person is to blame for being caught in a situation where they have no power or voice to change it.  

Sadly, this is the best encapsulation of CO$ that I’ve seen.

Last night’s episode was truly brutal, and I have nothing but the utmost respect for both of those women for putting themselves back together. You could tell that Christi’s story was so difficult for Mike knowing his own kids grew up in the Sea Org, too.

[veronicamers]

5 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I don't get all these questions about Mimi, it feels as though people think she's lying or something.  I think she may have had to do some not good things in order to survive; maybe she didn't want to share those with a very judge-ey public.

Or give any "ammunition" to the cult in order to drive their smear campaign. Take a look at Tony Ortega's blog. They are slandering Mimi's character and most of it is related to her love life/choice of partners. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by veronicamers

[Whimsy]

I had no idea who Mimi was.  I always wondered when we would get to her story since she's in the opening credits for this season.  I believe her.  First, when a child goes through trauma, there is often gaps in memory.  I personally have swiss cheese for memories from my childhood.  That may be some cause for any inconsistencies (if there are any) and she may also just be trying to fill in holes.  But, that doesn't change the trauma.  I felt horribly for both of these women.  They both went through horrific events they shouldn't have had to all in the name of this "religion".  I want it shut down so fast.  I know it won't be fast, but I just want it to be.

[tobeannounced]

Maybe it was poor editing, but Mimi's story left me with a lot of questions too. I have teenagers, so I really wanted more details on how she survived. And if she wasn't comfortable telling all of her story, all you have to do is say, There's some things I really don't want to talk about.

[DrivingSideways]

The church didn't deny that custody of Mimi was given away by her mom at 13, just the circumstances.  That said it all to me.  I mean, is there ever a good reason for a mother of supposedly sound mind and health to give her daughter away?  I filled in the blanks in my head in terms of how she survived... and yeah, I assumed she probably had to do things that made her grow up fast.  She seems like a straight shooter to me.  There are serial killers whose moms stand by their side, it's unimaginable to think that Mimi and Christi's moms abdicated their maternal duties so easily.

But I get it - there are other stories that made me question... like last week's episode about the Ranches.... I don't doubt the stories necessarily, but for a children's torture camp, it seemed very well photo-documented. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

But I get it - there are other stories that made me question... like last week's episode about the Ranches.... I don't doubt the stories necessarily, but for a children's torture camp, it seemed very well photo-documented. 

I hate to say this but....

There wasn't a whole lot going on at the child torture camp that... was illegal. That is why the therapeutic boarding school industry went on for so long.

The Ranches, complete with eight year olds being washed with metal brushes? Isn't even half as bad as some that didn't get shut down forever. The problem is that a lot of times, brutal as the stories sound... there's not something actionable. I mean, with the metal brush story, the victim even conceded he was just scratched, physically. Or not being allowed to call their parents or being locked in a room or doing physical labor. None of these things are technically a crime and when it comes to minors, you also want to remember that the parents were choosing to put their children in these schools. So for example, if a teen ran away and complained about the school? The parent can legitimately say "this is a boarding school, I approve of their methods" and then would probably cite the teen's bad behavior as to why they are going there. These places always have awesome photos ... thet were probablypretty honest about the hard physical labor too...

[MrSmith]

What my wife and I find amazing about all this is that you see an episode and then think "OK. This is the most depraved that Scientology and its members can possibly be" and then you watch the next episode and they manage to crank the depravity up another notch.

[Rlb8031]

12 hours ago, juliet73 said:

 

I believe Mimi's story.  She joined the Co$ 30 years ago so I think she might be fuzzy on some of the details which is understandable.  I thought her one (only) friend was a non $cientologist, but I didn't understand how they could have met because she was always at the Co$. Also, why would she have the friend's phone number, but not her brother or sister's?  Also, I didn't understand how Mimi was able to come back and go to school?  That didn't make any sense at all.

Think about it this way. She was nine when she left Atlanta. Cell phones weren't a common thing among teens/20-somethings at the time. So the only way to keep in touch would have been to call her brother and sister at their homes. Her brother was living in a dorm so that was a pay phone in the hall or a phone in his room, but his number would have changed every 9-10 months. Her sister was living with friends for 1-2 years and then she went off to college so it would have been the same deal. The only way the brother and sister would have been able to reach out to her would have been if the mother had shared their contact information, but they moved from FL to LA in less than a year and based on the story, it was likely Mom didn't keep in regular contact. So as a child Mimi would have had to relied on calling stable adults in Atlanta who's numbers she knew by heart to try and track down her brother and sister. I can completely see how she could fall out of regular contact. 

My mom comes from a huge family and even with today with FB/ Internet/ texting etc. there are aunts and uncles I have that I can't get into contact with without going through 2-3 intermediaries to get their information. Having a ten year old not able to contact family back in the 80's isn't at all suspect to me.

[ChickenLatte99]

11 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don't get all these questions about Mimi, it feels as though people think she's lying or something.  I think she may have had to do some not good things in order to survive; maybe she didn't want to share those with a very judge-ey public.

I can guess why people question her stories vs. the others, but I won't go there. I think she was telling the truth. I don't blame her from withholding the "terrible things" she had to do to survive.

[funky-rat]

1 hour ago, Rlb8031 said:

Think about it this way. She was nine when she left Atlanta. Cell phones weren't a common thing among teens/20-somethings at the time. So the only way to keep in touch would have been to call her brother and sister at their homes. Her brother was living in a dorm so that was a pay phone in the hall or a phone in his room, but his number would have changed every 9-10 months. Her sister was living with friends for 1-2 years and then she went off to college so it would have been the same deal. The only way the brother and sister would have been able to reach out to her would have been if the mother had shared their contact information, but they moved from FL to LA in less than a year and based on the story, it was likely Mom didn't keep in regular contact. So as a child Mimi would have had to relied on calling stable adults in Atlanta who's numbers she knew by heart to try and track down her brother and sister. I can completely see how she could fall out of regular contact. 

^This.  I left for college in 1991.  I knew a very small handful of people who had "car phones" - none of them were at college with me.  The college I went to did NOT supply phone lines.  The jack was in the room, but if you wanted a phone, you had to go through the phone company, and they were harsh with college students, charging higher fees and deposits, and insisting the bill go to one adult (my mom - who then divied up the phone bill between me and my roommate, then sent a check with the bill on to her mother, who then also put a check in ,and it got paid).  So many kids in the dorm didn't even have a phone in their room -they used calling cards, and the pay phone in the lobby.  And a friend who was at a school that did supply phone lines - her number changed constantly, as she was moved from room to room as the semesters ran on.  So I get that.  Plus you know her mother would be zero help.

[MrSmith]

1 hour ago, Rlb8031 said:

Think about it this way. She was nine when she left Atlanta. Cell phones weren't a common thing among teens/20-somethings at the time. So the only way to keep in touch would have been to call her brother and sister at their homes. Her brother was living in a dorm so that was a pay phone in the hall or a phone in his room, but his number would have changed every 9-10 months. Her sister was living with friends for 1-2 years and then she went off to college so it would have been the same deal. The only way the brother and sister would have been able to reach out to her would have been if the mother had shared their contact information, but they moved from FL to LA in less than a year and based on the story, it was likely Mom didn't keep in regular contact. So as a child Mimi would have had to relied on calling stable adults in Atlanta who's numbers she knew by heart to try and track down her brother and sister. I can completely see how she could fall out of regular contact. 

My mom comes from a huge family and even with today with FB/ Internet/ texting etc. there are aunts and uncles I have that I can't get into contact with without going through 2-3 intermediaries to get their information. Having a ten year old not able to contact family back in the 80's isn't at all suspect to me.

Not to mention that long distance was not cheap in those days, either. It wasn't until the mid- to late-90's that it started to actually get cheap, what with all those 10-10-xxx (ex: 10-10-811) numbers you could dial to get long distance cheaper. Those started out at around 10 or 15 cents per minute and competition quickly ramped the price down to 5 cents and finally to 2 or 3 cents. By comparison, long distance calling without the use of those numbers was 25 cents or more per minute at first, ended up around 8 to 10 cents per minute, and finally went "free" or "included" once mobile phones really became ubiquitous (for long distance calling) around 2005. We had actually gotten service from Vonage in 2002 with a number that was local to the area we most frequently called long distance; at $25 a month at the time, it was actually still a bargain for us.

Source: Me. I worked for GTE/Verizon from 1997 to 2008.

[Rlb8031]

Just now, MrSmith said:

Not to mention that long distance was not cheap in those days, either. It wasn't until the mid- to late-90's that it started to actually get cheap, what with all those 10-10-xxx (ex: 10-10-811) numbers you could dial to get long distance cheaper. Those started out at around 10 or 15 cents per minute and competition quickly ramped the price down to 5 cents and finally to 2 or 3 cents. By comparison, long distance calling without the use of those numbers was 25 cents or more per minute at first, ended up around 8 to 10 cents per minute, and finally went "free" or "included" once mobile phones really became ubiquitous (for long distance calling) around 2005. We had actually gotten service from Vonage in 2002 with a number that was local to the area we most frequently called long distance; at $25 a month at the time, it was actually still a bargain for us.

Source: Me. I worked for GTE/Verizon from 1997 to 2008.

You're right. I've completely forgotten how I almost went broke as a late teen talking on the phone long distance to my friends that were at college in different states. A one-hour call could be $10 or more!!!! 

[smorbie]

17 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I actually wonder if she was sleeping on the couches of Scientologists.  Wasn't the school she went back to because she didn't know where to go run by Scientologists?  If that is the case, it doesn't seem like they pushed beyond making her homeless.  I wonder if there is enough of a difference between SeaOrg and regular Scientologists that non SeaOrg Sientologists are used to unsupervised Sea Org member's kids hanging around and the "they are adults" thing stops them from getting anymore involved than letting them crash from time to time.

 

That was weird even for Scientology so I looked at Mimi's wiki.  It seems like the timeline fits with when Mimi appeared in a Pharell/Jay Z music video. So that explains it. The reconciliation was BS.  It was a recruitment of someone Scientology adjacent that they thought might gain some celebrity.

Oh, I figured the reconciliation was a farce.  No way mama would want to take that child back except as a sacrifice to lrhuckster.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Wow, I could feel these ladies' pain emanating from the screen.

Here's what's so impressive about this show. Every week we hear from different people who claim their lives have been traumatized, one way or another, by Scientology. And every week the CO$ issues some statement saying so-and-so is a liar and so-and-so is making this up and so-and-so was kicked out of the church etc. If we were to accept the constant denials of the church, it would mean Leah and Mike are doing the most phenomenal casting job in the history of show business. I mean, wow! These actors are Oscar-caliber good, right? Where are Leah and Mike finding all these wonderful, believable actors, and why aren't they all in films and television shows? They're so damn believable and compelling, right? Week after week - really impressive acting, according to the CO$.

Quote

 I recall sitting in church and listening to this BS garbage, when I was 10 years old and wondering WHEN  my parents were going to get up and leave the building.  I mean, I was a CHILD and I saw through the BS.  But, my parents STAYED and joined in. 

It's interesting you bring that up because I experienced something similar in my youth. Adults seem more easily hoodwinked - it reminds me of The Emperor's New Clothes. Look to the children for honest reactions. Adults have too much baggage; children are too naive to be enraptured. They just see what they see. Adults are looking for meaning or purpose or whatever so they project. Children aren't really capable of doing that, they are only aware of their basic physical and emotion needs.

Quote

 I have teenagers, so I really wanted more details on how she survived. 

This has been an ongoing omission with this show. We hear a lot from survivors but we never really hear much about how they managed to survive once they left the church. There's always a huge gap between the tragic story and where they are today. I imagine it's because that part of the story would make a different kind of show. I agree though it always leaves me wondering how they managed to piece together any kind of normal life without school or money or support. 

Maybe they can tell that part next season.

[WInterfalls]

On 10/18/2017 at 2:13 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Valid points, but, I have known teens who are able to stay with friends for long periods of time.  A lot of parents don't watch their kids that close and you can do your laundry, raid the fridge, etc.  AND if she wasn't accurate what other explanation is there?  Recall that the church CLAIMED that Mimi's mother made arrangements for her care in someone's home.  Really?  How would that work?  Mimi's mom was all wrapped up in Sea Org.  How would she have nonScientology friends who were willing to take custody of a teen for 4 years?  And without PAY?  It's my understanding that they don't get a salary, so how would Mimi's mom pay some nonScientology friend to take care of her daughter?  And, I can't see the church paying money for it.  So, I'm not sure what other explanation there could be.  To me, it's odd that CPS wasn't involved. 

I was discussing this situation and discussion with my brother today and he said "you know that happened with my friend J right?" When my brother was in high school his friend J at 16 had a falling out with his parents over his unwillingness to submit to the idea of arranged marriage and other overly American behaviors (they were first generation Indian immigrants) and he spent a year or so couch surfing. Remembering back he would stay with us for a few days at a time and then he would "go home" for a while then be back a few days later.  He ate dinner with us a lot even if he wasn't staying the night.  Apparently when he was "going home" he just went to another of his friends houses; some had parents that were not very attentive.  My parents knew he and his parents didn't get along so well so they never said no but apparently never suspected J was homeless.  He had a job, kept his grades, and no one else ever knew.  So I mean Mimi's story makes sense to me.  

[smorbie]

21 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don't know about her staying with other ScientologistS, AFTER they escorted her off the Sea org property.  Maybe.....I thought that you couldn't associate with a "SUPPRESSIVE PERSON".  It's sort of like their bad energy creates negativity that blocks you from clearing the planet.   I think that's their language. 

that's part of my problem, I think.  She was escorted out of the building with nothing, but she had enough money to call a friend.  Okay.  Then the next day she had enough money to buy a bus ticket and go BACK to the scientology school because she didn't know what to do.  Okay, sort of.

But, here's where my problem really begins.  Wouldn't the school eventually be notified of her status as a suppressive person?  I mean, WAS she even really declared at that point.  

She makes it sound like this went on for a while.  Wouldn't she have run out of money for the bus?

I don't know.  I believe her story, and I'm uncertain about her story at the same time.

She's not the only one.  The red haired woman who lost her brother told a terrible story, but somehow I got the feeling that she was mostly upset about losing her land.

The stories are horrible and most of them ring true from sentence one.  But, just these couple....I have questions.  I'm not saying they aren't true; I just wish there had been more detail and clarification given.

[Omeletsmom]

The problem I have with this episode is that I get the impression that these people would have been shitty parents with or without Scamology.  It just gave them a rationale for their behavior.  I don't care what religion you are, when that organization tells you to abandon your children and you willingly DO IT, there is something fundamentally wrong with you as well as with your religion.

I do feel for these women, Christi especially, but I don't know that their lives would have been a whole lot better if their mothers had never joined the CO$.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The problem I have with this episode is that I get the impression that these people would have been shitty parents with or without Scamology.  It just gave them a rationale for their behavior.  I don't care what religion you are, when that organization tells you to abandon your children and you willingly DO IT, there is something fundamentally wrong with you as well as with your religion.

Agreed. But it's worth noting that when Mimi's mother came to her apartment for the first time, Mimi was under the impression that everything went well. It was only a week later when her mother phoned and said she disapproved of her lifestyle. It appears that Mimi returned to the church and told everyone her daughter seemed to be doing just fine and then they started telling her, "No, she's not fine, she's doing terribly." Her mother was easily influenced/brainwashed by outsiders. 

[Rlb8031]

53 minutes ago, smorbie said:

that's part of my problem, I think.  She was escorted out of the building with nothing, but she had enough money to call a friend.  Okay.  Then the next day she had enough money to buy a bus ticket and go BACK to the scientology school because she didn't know what to do.  Okay, sort of.

But, here's where my problem really begins.  Wouldn't the school eventually be notified of her status as a suppressive person?  I mean, WAS she even really declared at that point.  

She makes it sound like this went on for a while.  Wouldn't she have run out of money for the bus?

I don't know.  I believe her story, and I'm uncertain about her story at the same time.

She's not the only one.  The red haired woman who lost her brother told a terrible story, but somehow I got the feeling that she was mostly upset about losing her land.

The stories are horrible and most of them ring true from sentence one.  But, just these couple....I have questions.  I'm not saying they aren't true; I just wish there had been more detail and clarification given.

First, she wasn't declared a suppressive person. That's a thing, not just a label and when it happens there are notices that go out to all, etc. She was kicked out of SeaOrg housing because she refused to join the SeaOrg, but she was considered still a "public" (non-clergy) CO$. As for the school piece, I don't think SeaOrg members paid much (or anything) for CO$ schools. They are subsidized by publics and the church. So she didn't need to pay tuition. And based upon my years as a kid taking public transit to middle and high school, bus drivers would seldom refuse to let a kid on the bus who didn't have the fare, especially if they actually had books and looked like they were going to school. And isn't all of this irrelevant? Whether she had someone who could look out for her or not, does it make what her mother did any less fucked up? Plenty of stories we've heard have ended with "and I called my dad/ a friend/ my brother and s/he took me in". I haven't heard anyone claim that those folks stories were suspect because they had friends or relatives outside the church. And she doesn't really owe y'all an explanation.