S02.E08: The Greatest Good

[smorbie]

2 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

First, she wasn't declared a suppressive person. That's a thing, not just a label and when it happens there are notices that go out to all, etc. She was kicked out of SeaOrg housing because she refused to join the SeaOrg, but she was considered still a "public" (non-clergy) CO$. As for the school piece, I don't think SeaOrg members paid much (or anything) for CO$ schools. They are subsidized by publics and the church. So she didn't need to pay tuition. And based upon my years as a kid taking public transit to middle and high school, bus drivers would seldom refuse to let a kid on the bus who didn't have the fare, especially if they actually had books and looked like they were going to school. And isn't all of this irrelevant? Whether she had someone who could look out for her or not, does it make what her mother did any less fucked up? Plenty of stories we've heard have ended with "and I called my dad/ a friend/ my brother and s/he took me in". I haven't heard anyone claim that those folks stories were suspect because they had friends or relatives outside the church. And she doesn't really owe y'all an explanation. 

No, you're totally right.  It is a horrible story.  Maybe it's because she's a public figure and I know things about her that makes me have so many questions.  I don't know.  All I know is that something about her puts me off.  Illogical? Sure?  And it's not that I flat out don't believe her, it's just that I needed more details.

And I have wondered, on these very pages how anyone who walked away was able to survive.  Chris something or another, who does a blog on youtube, actually helped me with that.

I just can't imagine how a child ever made it on her own.

[MrSmith]

10 hours ago, smorbie said:

No, you're totally right.  It is a horrible story.  Maybe it's because she's a public figure and I know things about her that makes me have so many questions.  I don't know.  All I know is that something about her puts me off.  Illogical? Sure?  And it's not that I flat out don't believe her, it's just that I needed more details.

And I have wondered, on these very pages how anyone who walked away was able to survive.  Chris something or another, who does a blog on youtube, actually helped me with that.

I just can't imagine how a child ever made it on her own.

Two quotes spring to mind....

"Necessity is the mother of invention.", author unknown

and

"Life will find a way.", Dr. Ian Malcolm, Jurassic Park

[buttercupia]

I find it really  interesting and sadly not surprising that an African American woman's story would be met with so much questioning and suspicion.

Mimi is a badass and a survivor, and she owes zero gap-filling to anyone.

Christi had so much pain in her eyes. It just broke my heart.

[sigmaforce86]

On 10/18/2017 at 3:57 PM, LilWharveyGal said:

Thanks to A&E's schedule change, the show is now on past my bedtime and I have to watch the recording (and comment) a day or two later.  I wonder if others are in the same boat.

With the 10pm slot I can't watch it until Thursday (Wed nights are too busy).  This board isn't so bad but catching up on Mike and Leah's insights on twitter is hard when it's a few days later.  They and their followers usually have some interesting comments.

14 hours ago, Omeletsmom said:

The problem I have with this episode is that I get the impression that these people would have been shitty parents with or without Scamology.  It just gave them a rationale for their behavior.  I don't care what religion you are, when that organization tells you to abandon your children and you willingly DO IT, there is something fundamentally wrong with you as well as with your religion.

I do feel for these women, Christi especially, but I don't know that their lives would have been a whole lot better if their mothers had never joined the CO$.

Not arguing but I think their lives would or could have been better because the secrecy and sequestering wouldn't have been there.  Imagine if they had batcrap crazy parents but went to public school, saw TV, had access to news and had a wider group of friends and knew about police help, CPS, school counselors and even the possibility of psychiatric drugs (especially for Christi's mom).  They may have ended up in foster care and it's true in a lot of cases those homes aren't great and can even be worse but they would have at least had a chance to report their problems and have people care about helping them instead of being told it's your fault, you're just tiny adults who need to evolve now go do four more hours hard labor so we can feed you dry ramen

 

I have no idea who Mimi is, didn't know her before and haven't looked her up but I believe her story about surviving and faking it for years.  I was reminded of that girl (forgot name) in the Homeless to Harvard movie - she faked it for a long time too, made good grades, impressed her teachers and was smart enough to not reveal she was homeless on her essay until after she turned 18 because she didn't want to go back to a group home.  I wonder how many kids have done that and might be doing it right now

[CaughtOnTape]

Did anyone watch the extra chat afterwards?  What that woman said to Mike was incredibly powerful and I hope it eased him some.  

Mimi's story broke my heart.  That poor woman having to realize she wasn't as important to her mother as she should've been.  That type of thing punches a hole in you that I don't think ever heals.

Every time I watch this show I feel like calling my dad and thanking him for not pushing his views on me as a kid.  I was raised Catholic and did all the Catholic things required (first communion, etc) but around 13 my parents stopped requiring that we go to church and I was allowed to make my own decisions regarding how I chose to view God and religion.  I am not part of any organized religion now because I find it all to be bullshit.  I make my own decisions regarding who/what I believe in.  The fact that my parents did this (and without a lot of fan fare, just one day my mom didn't say "time for church" and that was that) makes me incredibly grateful.

[SunnyBeBe]

So, you would think that I would know this by now, considering how much of this series I have watched, but, can you join Scientology and NOT sign a contract?  Is the billion year contract only for Sea Org members?  I thought that Leah has signed one and I wasn't aware that she was in Sea Org.

[ZoloftBlob]

The billion year contract is only for sea org members. You can be a Scientologist without being in Sea Org. The advantage to Sea Org is that you don't pay for the many many expensive classes on the bridge and you're sort of clergy in the church. The disadvantages are that you're basically a slave to the church.

[ChickenLatte99]

2 hours ago, buttercupia said:

I find it really  interesting and sadly not surprising that an African American woman's story would be met with so much questioning and suspicion.

Mimi is a badass and a survivor, and she owes zero gap-filling to anyone.

Christi had so much pain in her eyes. It just broke my heart.

Her being African American was what I was alluding to in my previous post. Every single story from the victims has been so unbelievably crazy and bizarre, yet people are questioning Mimi. Based on what others have said, her story falls right in place.

[italianguy626]

48 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, you would think that I would know this by now, considering how much of this series I have watched, but, can you join Scientology and NOT sign a contract?  Is the billion year contract only for Sea Org members?  I thought that Leah has signed one and I wasn't aware that she was in Sea Org.

She did sign a contract, but washed out of the Sea Org early on, IIRC from her biography.

[MrSmith]

3 hours ago, buttercupia said:

I find it really  interesting and sadly not surprising that an African American woman's story would be met with so much questioning and suspicion.

Mimi is a badass and a survivor, and she owes zero gap-filling to anyone.

Christi had so much pain in her eyes. It just broke my heart.

I hope you know that there are plenty of people who are not questioning or suspicious of Mimi any more than they are of any of the stories told on this show. Personally, I don't question or doubt any of their stories because I've known for a long time that CoS is a cult and its member are either Chiroptera guano loco, brainwashed, or both. So I can totally believe these stories we're being told on this show without any hesitation.

[WInterfalls]

1 hour ago, ChickenLatte99 said:

Her being African American was what I was alluding to in my previous post. Every single story from the victims has been so unbelievably crazy and bizarre, yet people are questioning Mimi. Based on what others have said, her story falls right in place.

I mean I didn't want to say it but... Though I think part of it may also be that she is a reality TV personality and we are kind of conditioned to think they will say anything for fame.  (I am in NO WAY saying that about Mimi. I completely believe her.)

 

Look Mimi isn't a perfect person, none of us are.  But if we can believe the horrors of last week's show despite the fact that both of those two had histories of drug abuse (again I'm not blaming them I probably would too). Why can't we believe Mimi despite the fact that she has a sex tape?  Her mother left her life at 13 years old because she was taught to believe that Mimi was not what was important.  She had to pull herself up by herself.  Yes she was a kid and yes it may be hard for you to believe a kid can do it but it actually happens a lot more than you would think. Some people are just survivors and we should be applauding her not helping others tear her down just because you don't know every single detail.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

I find it really  interesting and sadly not surprising that an African American woman's story would be met with so much questioning and suspicion.

Let's not make this about race. Mimi's story is not the only one I've ever questioned. And I don't question its truth or veracity - I question how it came to be. As I said upthread, this show has consistently (and probably, deliberately) glossed over the connecting dots between the time these victims finally escaped the church and how they got to where they are today. I think because that's just a different story to tell. Although the show is called "Scientology and the Aftermath" so I would appreciate an episode or two that chronicled how some of these people managed to rebuild their lives once they were free of the church.

It isn't that I don't believe Mimi or any of these other poor souls. I just don't get, exactly, how she managed to survive on her own, and what little information she provided in the show led to more questions. Didn't any of these people ask her what was going on? How did she pay for school, supplies, clothes, etc.? Those are valid questions. It doesn't mean I don't believe her, it means I want to know more than the show is telling.

[CaughtOnTape]

Does it really matter how she got through her days?  The important parts of the story (and why the show doesn't highlight further information) were told.  It has nothing to do with Scientology which is what Leah is after.  She is letting people tell their incredibly disgusting stories about what family members were forced to do to other family members.  I think it's sort of odd to focus on what she did once she was cast out.  The point is what happened to her while she was there and when she left and how Scientology succeeded in continuing to abuse her even afterwards when her mother died.

I don't think it matters how she fed, clothed or got to school once she left.  She did what she needed to do.  Good enough for me.

Edited October 20, 2017 by CaughtOnTape

[smorbie]

8 hours ago, buttercupia said:

I find it really  interesting and sadly not surprising that an African American woman's story would be met with so much questioning and suspicion.

Mimi is a badass and a survivor, and she owes zero gap-filling to anyone.

Christi had so much pain in her eyes. It just broke my heart.

There's an accusation behind that statement, and I don't appreciate it.  I also said I had a hard time with the red haired woman's story.  AND I said that I didn't doubt Faust, but that I had questions.  There seemed to be a lot of glossing over of facts.

Plus, let's face it, the leaked sex tape story does hurt her credibility.  

She's black.  Big deal. She's also gorgeous and a survivor.  

By the way, you don't have any idea what race I am.  My cats are Maine C**** (from the avi) - that's all you know.

[StatisticalOutlier]

7 hours ago, WInterfalls said:

Yes she was a kid and yes it may be hard for you to believe a kid can do it but it actually happens a lot more than you would think. Some people are just survivors and we should be applauding her not helping others tear her down just because you don't know every single detail.  

But what if the details that are presented don't make sense?

 

4 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

I don't think it matters how she fed, clothed or got to school once she left.  She did what she needed to do.  Good enough for me.

Well, it kind of matters if she said she did it a certain way and that way doesn't add up to the viewer.  I watched the episode with an uncritical eye (had never heard of Mimi before), but I'm pretty sure she said they threw her out without even giving her bus fare, and then said she went to a pay phone and called someone, and then said she'd taken the bus somewhere.  And I thought, "How?" 

[juliet73]

It's not that I don't believe Mimi - I do.  I think why I (and maybe others) have additional questions about her story is because when she started to talk about it, she spoke in detail about about her mom looking for spiritual guidance, her siblings and their plans, going to Clearwater and her experiences there, then moving to California and being bullied because she was the only African American student at the $cientology school, etc.  She even spoke at length about when she was being escorted out the door and staying at her friend's house the first night.  Then she jumps 4 years later.  A non $cientology family took her in.  A few years later, mom wants to see her so she can pressure her to join the sea org.   She declines...again.  More time passes, she has her own apartment and is doing well and invites her mom over.  Mom tells her she's disappointed with her lifestyle. Now she's 27 and her mom is dying.  She never mentioned when she quit attending the $cientology school or if they found out she was still there and was kicked out, was she in touch with her mother at all or just these few times she mentioned, etc.  When she started talking about her mother being is hospice, she spoke again in a lot of detail.  I know she's not going to explain every minute of her life, but I was curious what she was during those years that weren't mentioned.   

I don't think anyone was questioning her because of her race.  Most of the other interviews we have seen with the kids, they discussed more thoroughly about how the Co$ had changed their life, what they had been doing since leaving the "church" , if they were still in touch with their $cientology parent(s) or have they been disconnected.  Mimi went from sleeping on friend's couches to starring in a reality show.  

Edited October 21, 2017 by juliet73

[italianguy626]

I bet a lot of these questions would be answered if we could see what was left on the cutting room floor. I would guess these interviews are a lot longer but get edited down to fit whatever allotted time they have to showcase that person and their story.

[Cranky One]

10 hours ago, italianguy626 said:

I bet a lot of these questions would be answered if we could see what was left on the cutting room floor. I would guess these interviews are a lot longer but get edited down to fit whatever allotted time they have to showcase that person and their story.

Yes...I'm sure there are a lot of things left on the cutting room floor because it's only a one hour show and they had 2 survivors (because that's what they are) in this episode.

I hope that the people who are telling their stories, and some are truly horrific, get some sort of relief or closure (I'm not even sure what the correct word would be) knowing that someone is in their corner very publicly and is not backing down.

[smorbie]

15 hours ago, juliet73 said:

It's not that I don't believe Mimi - I do.  I think why I (and maybe others) have additional questions about her story is because when she started to talk about it, she spoke in detail about about her mom looking for spiritual guidance, her siblings and their plans, going to Clearwater and her experiences there, then moving to California and being bullied because she was the only African American student at the $cientology school, etc.  She even spoke at length about when she was being escorted out the door and staying at her friend's house the first night.  Then she jumps 4 years later.  A non $cientology family took her in.  A few years later, mom wants to see her so she can pressure her to join the sea org.   She declines...again.  More time passes, she has her own apartment and is doing well and invites her mom over.  Mom tells her she's disappointed with her lifestyle. Now she's 27 and her mom is dying.  She never mentioned when she quit attending the $cientology school or if they found out she was still there and was kicked out, was she in touch with her mother at all or just these few times she mentioned, etc.  When she started talking about her mother being is hospice, she spoke again in a lot of detail.  I know she's not going to explain every minute of her life, but I was curious what she was during those years that weren't mentioned.   

I don't think anyone was questioning her because of her race.  Most of the other interviews we have seen with the kids, they discussed more thoroughly about how the Co$ had changed their life, what they had been doing since leaving the "church" , if they were still in touch with their $cientology parent(s) or have they been disconnected.  Mimi went from sleeping on friend's couches to starring in a reality show.  

EVERY WORD OF THAT

I didn't know anything about her before the show, but I looked her up afterwards to try to understand her story.  It did start with the pay phone and bus ticket.  Her mother was SeaOrg.  It doesn't seem like her child would have a lot of spending money. And all the kids at school hated her because of her race.  But they let her go home with them, for years and years and years?

I know that kids can make it on their own and, as I said, I don't doubt her story.  But, there aren't enough details to make the story make sense to me.

The self-leaked sex tape I actually understand.  This is a young girl who didn't have any parental attention.  It seems as though mom was so busy trying to find spiritual answers that she focused on that more than on her child.  

I'm sure her mom was a good mother to the other children.  Didn't she say her brother was at GA Tech?  She apparently had raised good, smart kids. But, I guess, she pooped on by the third one.

[Neurochick]

On October 19, 2017 at 7:19 PM, Rlb8031 said:

And she doesn't really owe y'all an explanation. 

Amen to this, Mimi really doesn't, none of them do.  If everybody went into details about how they got from point A to point B, every show would be four hours long.

Christi's story...OMG.  I could see in her eyes, and her voice how severe the damage was and my God, her mother; I wonder what happened to her in those years Christi didn't see her.  I wonder what happened to Christi's sister.  

Edited October 21, 2017 by Neurochick

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Amen to this, Mimi really doesn't, none of them do.  If everybody went into details about how they got from point A to point B, every show would be four hours long.

And maybe it was the editors, and not Mimi, who omitted details and entire time periods.  It is a presentation, after all, and we see only part of the interviews.  But I would think the show would want to present a cohesive story, and preferably one without holes that make people think, "How did she take the bus if she says they didn't give her bus fare?"  It's been explained here, but (1) we don't know that that's what actually happened to her, and (2) most people don't have the benefit of other people's experience in trying to get on a bus in Los Angeles without having the proper fare, to know that it's even a possibility.

I assume the show wants the victims they feature to appear credible, since they're asking viewers to believe things that are, to a lot of us, literally unbelievable, as in completely unfamiliar and outside the bounds of what most of us consider acceptable behavior, much less by a purported religious organization.  So it seems to me they would work extra-hard on how their stories are presented, to make it so people have no choice but to believe every word.  Maybe they just dropped the ball on this one, but it's unfortunate. 

[juliet73]

6 hours ago, Neurochick said:

 

Christi's story...OMG.  I could see in her eyes, and her voice how severe the damage was and my God, her mother; I wonder what happened to her in those years Christi didn't see her.  I wonder what happened to Christi's sister.  

Per Christi's twitter:  

Christi Gordon‏ @Clear2Insanity  Oct 17

Replying to @KathieDavid @LeahRemini @MimiFaust

They couldn't include it all...20 years...she wasn't ok for so long but she's better now...and my best friend

 

She also said via twitter:

Christi Gordon‏ @Clear2Insanity  Oct 17

I can't tell you how many of my friends family's never recovered from Scientology..I know how fortunate I am to have my sissy

[Victoria Winters]

Mimi is a very strong woman which is how she survived this. When watching her I also felt somehow not as sorry for her and wondered why? I've come to the conclusion that it's her strong personality compared to all the others who really came across as victims. She is that type A that always gets  misunderstood and sometimes less sympathy cause they seem so strong.

[Eater of Worlds]

On 10/18/2017 at 4:57 PM, smorbie said:

I know.  I appreciate the help trying to understand it.  I don't doubt that she was thrown out of her mom's house.  I just have questions about what she did afterward.  I do hope that it was the case that she was to stay with people.  I remember the story of the young man, Michael Orr, whose story was so brilliantly told in the Blind Side.  I know God puts angels out there to help some of these lost children, and I hope she was able to find that help.  I just wish they'd talked enough specifics for me to be able to put it all together in my mind.

Please don't accept Michael Oher's story as accurately told in the movie.  They put stuff in there that were blatantly lies just for the sake of the story.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 9:31 AM, red12 said:

I empathize with Mimi particularly because I was raised in a predominantly white educational environment and understand how isolating and psychologically damaging it can be to experience a high level of racially based isolation. My family did believe and support me though. I cannot imagine if I did not at least have that protection for my mind and soul.

I have also seen how susceptible my mother can be to extreme religious dogma and charismatic figures. I am thankful that we did not encounter the "perfect storm" of circumstances that would have caused her to betray me to the level these people's parents did. I am reminded when I watch this show how these people could have been me and feel deep compassion for their pain.

And wasn't she in Atlanta prior to moving?  Atlanta has it's racial issues, without a doubt, but it also has a strong African-American culture.  I can't imagine the shock of going from one extreme to the other.  

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 2:57 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I do wonder about some details at times that sound odd, but, I have to consider how reasonable the story.  I do believe most of what is described.  Granted, it sounds odd that a teen could hang out with friends for years, but, I have actually seen people who do it.  Regardless, she was a minor and they can't be held to the same standard as an adult, in my mind. I wasn't familiar with Mimi either, so, I have no context with which to absorb her story., other than what was revealed on this episode. 

Did the other lady reveal what was wrong with her mother?  She said she had lost touch with reality, but, I wondered why. Does she have dementia,  Schizophrenia, etc. ?

 

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 4:13 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Valid points, but, I have known teens who are able to stay with friends for long periods of time.  A lot of parents don't watch their kids that close and you can do your laundry, raid the fridge, etc.  AND if she wasn't accurate what other explanation is there?  Recall that the church CLAIMED that Mimi's mother made arrangements for her care in someone's home.  Really?  How would that work?  Mimi's mom was all wrapped up in Sea Org.  How would she have nonScientology friends who were willing to take custody of a teen for 4 years?  And without PAY?  It's my understanding that they don't get a salary, so how would Mimi's mom pay some nonScientology friend to take care of her daughter?  And, I can't see the church paying money for it.  So, I'm not sure what other explanation there could be.  To me, it's odd that CPS wasn't involved. 

Agree with both of these posts.  Mimi could have been staying with kids whose parents weren't very present in the home.  She could have been wearing her friend's clothing, etc.  There's also a possibility that some of these parents were very aware of Mimi's situation, but continued to care for her and even buy her clothes without letting on they knew she was homeless.

Bottom line - I have two stories, and one is Scientology's.  I will always and forever believe Scientology is the liar.  I'm not familiar with Mimi outside of this episode, but I highly doubt Leah and Mike would have a liar and exaggerator on the show.  They are very carefully sticking to what can't be litigated.  They haven't even covered Lisa McPherson.  These guests are being vetted hard, so I place my trust in Leah and Mike.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 4:57 PM, smorbie said:

I know.  I appreciate the help trying to understand it.  I don't doubt that she was thrown out of her mom's house.  I just have questions about what she did afterward.  I do hope that it was the case that she was to stay with people.  I remember the story of the young man, Michael Orr, whose story was so brilliantly told in the Blind Side.  I know God puts angels out there to help some of these lost children, and I hope she was able to find that help.  I just wish they'd talked enough specifics for me to be able to put it all together in my mind.

She was part of a 42 minute episode.  She could hardly give every minute of her life, therefore things would obviously be left out.  She said they threw her out without giving her any money, and she's a liar because she was able to make a phone call and get on the bus?  She could have called collect.  She could have snuck on the bus, inspired the bus driver's sympathy to let her on free, or happened to have a couple of dollars in her keeping.  Very simple explanations rather than assuming she's a liar.

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 5:38 PM, red12 said:

I have wondered about the minors signing contracts thing too. Like you, I believe it is 1) the kids don't know it's illegal and will receive no education so, as adults who have been programmed by the cult, there is very little likelihood that they will rebel. I think this is why after a certain point, the church workers allow people to leave. They know if things get to a point where police are involved, they are toast. 2) CO$ is desperate for membership. They are wealthy, but do not have nearly the members they say they do and new converts are few and far between. I bet the internet and this show will make it even harder for them to recruit anyone except the most desperate Hollywood social climber or homeless person.

I think the contract is more spiritual than legal.  Regardless, I'm sure these contracts were never seen by a non-Scientology lawyer.  Scientology seems to have such a grip on lawyers, doctors, and the local law, that they remind me a little of the FLDS communities.  

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 7:58 PM, ParadoxLost said:

I actually wonder if she was sleeping on the couches of Scientologists.  Wasn't the school she went back to because she didn't know where to go run by Scientologists?  If that is the case, it doesn't seem like they pushed beyond making her homeless.  I wonder if there is enough of a difference between SeaOrg and regular Scientologists that non SeaOrg Sientologists are used to unsupervised Sea Org member's kids hanging around and the "they are adults" thing stops them from getting anymore involved than letting them crash from time to time.

 

That was weird even for Scientology so I looked at Mimi's wiki.  It seems like the timeline fits with when Mimi appeared in a Pharell/Jay Z music video. So that explains it. The reconciliation was BS.  It was a recruitment of someone Scientology adjacent that they thought might gain some celebrity.

She did say she returned to her Scientology school.  She was kicked of the property "awarded" to a Sea Org member, but she was not kicked out of Scientology.  If the Scientologist parents of her classmates are typical Scientology parents, I doubt they noticed much about their own children.  They were too busy with daily auditing and working to pay for the half-million dollars worth of classes.  Their adults living in children's bodies (and their friends) were on their own.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 9:03 AM, ZoloftBlob said:

I hate to say this but....

There wasn't a whole lot going on at the child torture camp that... was illegal. That is why the therapeutic boarding school industry went on for so long.

The Ranches, complete with eight year olds being washed with metal brushes? Isn't even half as bad as some that didn't get shut down forever. The problem is that a lot of times, brutal as the stories sound... there's not something actionable. I mean, with the metal brush story, the victim even conceded he was just scratched, physically. Or not being allowed to call their parents or being locked in a room or doing physical labor. None of these things are technically a crime and when it comes to minors, you also want to remember that the parents were choosing to put their children in these schools. So for example, if a teen ran away and complained about the school? The parent can legitimately say "this is a boarding school, I approve of their methods" and then would probably cite the teen's bad behavior as to why they are going there. These places always have awesome photos ... thet were probablypretty honest about the hard physical labor too...

Exactly.  And as for the molestation - well rampant molestation has taken place in some of the highest institutions for decades.  I'm not surprised at all about these camps.  And I believe them completely.  In non-Scientology camps, children have died in similar situations.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 10:32 AM, ChickenLatte99 said:

I can guess why people question her stories vs. the others, but I won't go there. I think she was telling the truth. I don't blame her from withholding the "terrible things" she had to do to survive.

I'm there with you, and it's not always a conscious judgment.  

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 7:19 PM, Rlb8031 said:

First, she wasn't declared a suppressive person. That's a thing, not just a label and when it happens there are notices that go out to all, etc. She was kicked out of SeaOrg housing because she refused to join the SeaOrg, but she was considered still a "public" (non-clergy) CO$. As for the school piece, I don't think SeaOrg members paid much (or anything) for CO$ schools. They are subsidized by publics and the church. So she didn't need to pay tuition. And based upon my years as a kid taking public transit to middle and high school, bus drivers would seldom refuse to let a kid on the bus who didn't have the fare, especially if they actually had books and looked like they were going to school. And isn't all of this irrelevant? Whether she had someone who could look out for her or not, does it make what her mother did any less fucked up? Plenty of stories we've heard have ended with "and I called my dad/ a friend/ my brother and s/he took me in". I haven't heard anyone claim that those folks stories were suspect because they had friends or relatives outside the church. And she doesn't really owe y'all an explanation. 

WORD.

And I noticed her sex tape has been thrown into the arena - something the show specifically did not mention (but something the church would smear her with).  I wonder if one of the male victims would be disbelieved if he had a sex tape.

[Neurochick]

Here's how I see it.

I don't think these people should EVER go into details about what they had to do to survive.  If they mentioned those details, or if they said they didn't want to talk about them, the "church" would say, "AH, HAH, THAT'S why we kicked them out!" or use what they said to prove they were liars.  

And as RLB8031said:

Quote

Plenty of stories we've heard have ended with "and I called my dad/ a friend/ my brother and s/he took me in". I haven't heard anyone claim that those folks stories were suspect because they had friends or relatives outside the church. And she doesn't really owe y'all an explanation. 

So why question Mimi?

[smorbie]

5 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

On 10/18/2017 at 4:57 PM, smorbie said:

I know.  I appreciate the help trying to understand it.  I don't doubt that she was thrown out of her mom's house.  I just have questions about what she did afterward.  I do hope that it was the case that she was to stay with people.  I remember the story of the young man, Michael Orr, whose story was so brilliantly told in the Blind Side.  I know God puts angels out there to help some of these lost children, and I hope she was able to find that help.  I just wish they'd talked enough specifics for me to be able to put it all together in my mind.

She was part of a 42 minute episode.  She could hardly give every minute of her life, therefore things would obviously be left out.  She said they threw her out without giving her any money, and she's a liar because she was able to make a phone call and get on the bus?  She could have called collect.  She could have snuck on the bus, inspired the bus driver's sympathy to let her on free, or happened to have a couple of dollars in her keeping.  Very simple explanations rather than assuming she's a liar.

Where did I say she was a liar?  I said I had questions. 

[CaughtOnTape]

11 hours ago, smorbie said:

Where did I say she was a liar?  I said I had questions. 

I think that's her point.  The underlying suggestion that those answers would somehow make her story more believable in essence makes it sound like those questioning her about mundane details that don't matter are saying she's lying or exaggerating her truth.  Like I said before, why does it matter how she got on a bus or made a phone call?  It's almost as if the answers are being harped on so you can go "Well there's no way a 13 year old could do that so she's exaggerating.".  Those details don't have a thing to do with how she made it through Scientology or her mother abandoning her.  That is peripheral information that would not add and should not take away from the crux of the story which is that her mother abandoned her at 13 years old for her church which is what this entire season is about.  There have been quite a few stories this season where stupid details were left out and they weren't questioned or asked to fill in the blanks.  I mean...we can all sit here and claim there's nothing racial about it but...if it's assumed that her answers to these questions would make her story more believable then I don't see the stretch in believing that she's being held to a higher standard because she's a minority.

Edited October 23, 2017 by CaughtOnTape

[CaughtOnTape]

On 10/20/2017 at 5:34 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

But what if the details that are presented don't make sense?

 

Well, it kind of matters if she said she did it a certain way and that way doesn't add up to the viewer.  I watched the episode with an uncritical eye (had never heard of Mimi before), but I'm pretty sure she said they threw her out without even giving her bus fare, and then said she went to a pay phone and called someone, and then said she'd taken the bus somewhere.  And I thought, "How?" 

This is the point people are trying to make.  She doesn't owe you an explanation for what she went through as a kid in order to survive in order to satisfy your thought process so you can either set her in the "believed" pile or the "mmmmdon't think so" pile in your head.  Her story was hardly any more or less outrageous than anyone else's yet people are still harping on how she got on a bus.  What could she say that would satisfy you?  You're already looking for a reason to discount her because it won't "add up" to you.

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

I think that's her point.  The underlying suggestion that those answers would somehow make her story more believable in essence makes it sound like those questioning her about mundane details that don't matter are saying she's lying or exaggerating her truth.  Like I said before, why does it matter how she got on a bus or made a phone call?  It's almost as if the answers are being harped on so you can go "Well there's no way a 13 year old could do that so she's exaggerating.".  Those details don't have a thing to do with how she made it through Scientology or her mother abandoning her.  That is peripheral information that would not add and should not take away from the crux of the story which is that her mother abandoned her at 13 years old for her church which is what this entire season is about.  There have been quite a few stories this season where stupid details were left out and they weren't questioned or asked to fill in the blanks.  I mean...we can all sit here and claim there's nothing racial about it but...if it's assumed that her answers to these questions would make her story more believable then I don't see the stretch in believing that she's being held to a higher standard because she's a minority.

I'm not talking about details that were left out.  I'm talking about details that she volunteered that don't match up.  And that's something that people use to determine a person's veracity. 

 

58 minutes ago, CaughtOnTape said:

This is the point people are trying to make.  She doesn't owe you an explanation for what she went through as a kid in order to survive in order to satisfy your thought process so you can either set her in the "believed" pile or the "mmmmdon't think so" pile in your head.  Her story was hardly any more or less outrageous than anyone else's yet people are still harping on how she got on a bus.  What could she say that would satisfy you?  You're already looking for a reason to discount her because it won't "add up" to you.

I most certainly am not looking for a reason to discount her, and I'm not even saying I do discount her broader story that she escaped Scientology.  I'm saying that the discrepancy that exists in saying "they didn't even give me bus fare" followed by, "I made a call from a pay phone" and "I took the bus" popped into my mind, and I came here and saw that other people had noticed it, too. 

If she had said, "I took a bus" without having previously said that they kicked her out without even giving her bus fare, then no discrepancy.  Or if she had said, "I called a friend" without specifically mentioning a pay phone right after she said they didn't give her any money, then I might have thought, if I thought at all which I probably wouldn't because she hadn't made a point of saying they didn't give her any money, "She must have used a phone at a store or something," like people who didn't have money for a pay phone used to do. 

She's the one who made statements that conflict with each other.  And like I said upthread, maybe this is sloppy work by the editors, but if you're asking me to believe that an entity that calls itself a religious organization is doing all these literally unbelievable things, then you'd be well served by making sure all the mundane details, the relatable stepping stones under a person's horrific story, make sense.

[LegalParrot81]

I interpreted the comment of  "they didn't even give me bus fare", about not being so much that she did or did not have money in her pocket, but rather that the cult didn't find out or care if she was going to be able to fend for herself, they just showed her the door.  

I think ultimately it comes down to editing.  We do not see every minute of every interview.  This particular episode was not edited well. JMO

Edited October 23, 2017 by LegalParrot81

[mattie0808]

1 hour ago, LegalParrot81 said:

I interpreted the comment of  "they didn't even give me bus fare", about not being so much that she did or did not have money in her pocket, but rather that the cult didn't find out or care if she was going to be able to fend for herself, they just showed her the door. 

That's certainly what I presumed, as opposed to "it would be likely impossible and rather inconsistent with her story for her to have the change/couple of bucks on her person at age 13 to make a local call and get on a local bus." The point is, her mother and the other Scientologists present that day put her out while making no effort in any way to try to provide for her, or enable her to provide for herself. That she was, in fact, able to provide for herself is not so much a contradiction as a testament to her survival skills and strength. That they didn't care whether she was able to fend for herself (or, potentially were happy to have who-knows-what happen to her to get her to come crawling back) is the point of the show, that Scientology is an abusive cult that harms and destroys lives and families as part of its standard operating procedure.

 

For me, details about how she survived are interesting (I'd love to read or see that somewhere if she's done that), but not necessary. There are details like that in all of these stories, IMO, that there's little time or need to specifically go into.

[funky-rat]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 7:34 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

But what if the details that are presented don't make sense?

 

Well, it kind of matters if she said she did it a certain way and that way doesn't add up to the viewer.  I watched the episode with an uncritical eye (had never heard of Mimi before), but I'm pretty sure she said they threw her out without even giving her bus fare, and then said she went to a pay phone and called someone, and then said she'd taken the bus somewhere.  And I thought, "How?" 

 

1 hour ago, LegalParrot81 said:

I interpreted the comment of  "they didn't even give me bus fare", about not being so much that she did or did not have money in her pocket, but rather that the cult didn't find out or care if she was going to be able to fend for herself, they just showed her the door.  

I think ultimately it comes down to editing.  We do not see every minute of every interview.  This particular episode was not edited well. JMO

I just assumed that meant that they gave her nothing when she left.  She could have had a calling card - those were very popular back in the day, and could be gotten very cheaply.  Also, being a school student, she could have had a bus pass.  Mr. Funky grew up in a medium-sized city and being a student got him a bus pass, since his only options to get to school were to walk, ride his bike, or have someone drop him off.  Walking/biking weren't great options in the snowy winter, or extreme cold, or rain.  And his mother sure as heck wasn't taking him to school, so he'd take the city bus with his student pass.  There are ways to keep going.  And if she was making friends with affluent kids, I'm sure some held her secrets, and helped her out when they could.  Yes, she got a bad edit.  Her story is hers and I don't question it, but it might have been better of the show to say "There are some details she prefers to keep to herself" and this discussion wouldn't even be happening.  Like a lot of others, I'd never even heard of her before this episode.

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, funky-rat said:

I just assumed that meant that they gave her nothing when she left.  She could have had a calling card - those were very popular back in the day, and could be gotten very cheaply. 

Ha!  I thought you meant calling card back in the day was referring to something from an Edith Wharton novel.

 

3 hours ago, funky-rat said:

Her story is hers and I don't question it, but it might have been better of the show to say "There are some details she prefers to keep to herself" and this discussion wouldn't even be happening.  Like a lot of others, I'd never even heard of her before this episode.

Yeah, I'd never heard of her either and still know only what I've read here. 

I tend to agree with you, but don't all of the victims have details that they prefer to keep to themselves, but there was no call or even reason for the show to make a statement like that for them.  No clue why the show chose to present her story they way they did, but they know the COS picks at everything, so you'd think they'd be super careful about not giving them any ammunition whatsoever, if making a cohesive presentation for the viewers isn't incentive enough.

[Guest]

Please move on from whether or not you believe Mimi. The horse is dead; repeated beatings are unnecessary.

[MamaMax]

This was the first episode where I wavered a bit in my belief that LRH's beef with Psych science was due to its rejection of him and his theories, along with his level 1000  Personal Craziness Quotient.  The tall lady's story about her mentally ill mom made me think that perhaps LRH knew a large percentage of his most ardent supporters would be mentally ill and/or emorionally disturbed or damaged.  That the attitude toward psych was all about keeping them crazy. Keep them thinking that only his "technology" (GOD I hate it when they call it that!) had the answers.

Opinions?

[MrSmith]

7 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I'm not talking about details that were left out.  I'm talking about details that she volunteered that don't match up.  And that's something that people use to determine a person's veracity. 

 

I most certainly am not looking for a reason to discount her, and I'm not even saying I do discount her broader story that she escaped Scientology.  I'm saying that the discrepancy that exists in saying "they didn't even give me bus fare" followed by, "I made a call from a pay phone" and "I took the bus" popped into my mind, and I came here and saw that other people had noticed it, too. 

If she had said, "I took a bus" without having previously said that they kicked her out without even giving her bus fare, then no discrepancy.  Or if she had said, "I called a friend" without specifically mentioning a pay phone right after she said they didn't give her any money, then I might have thought, if I thought at all which I probably wouldn't because she hadn't made a point of saying they didn't give her any money, "She must have used a phone at a store or something," like people who didn't have money for a pay phone used to do. 

She's the one who made statements that conflict with each other.  And like I said upthread, maybe this is sloppy work by the editors, but if you're asking me to believe that an entity that calls itself a religious organization is doing all these literally unbelievable things, then you'd be well served by making sure all the mundane details, the relatable stepping stones under a person's horrific story, make sense.

I just figure she spent an hour pan-handling. The number of pan-handlers in Minneapolis is astounding to me. Even more astounding is that commuters who  see  these  people day in and day out actually stop to give them money. In Rochester, MN one of the news stations busted  a well-known female panhandler sitting behind a strip mall in her new Cadillac counting out the thousands she'd made that day. She freely admitted she makes far more pan-handling than she could possibly earn at a job, short of something like an executive. So imagine how easy it would be for  a 13 year old  to get strangers to give her money. After all, she'd be legitimately down on her luck, upset about what happened with her mother, and all of that would  show plainly in  her  demeanor. Hell, I would have given her money and I don't give money to pan-handlers.

[evansmom10]

For some reason, this one killed me. This is just awful.