GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Melgaypet]

Sean got badly injured and it was kinda Luke's fault, right? I just remember him being wheeled out of the hospital while Tiff tearfully hugged Robin.

Y'know,back when people were allowed to be nice to Robin. :(

 

Not to ignore the Sonny discussion...but yeah, it was kinda Luke's fault. In that Luke shot him. Granted, he didn't know it was Sean - I think he thought he was shooting one of Frank Smith's goons - but still. Laura and Tiffany were both pretty pissed, as I recall.

 

ETA: I found the clip! Not Frank Smith, but Joe Scully and I'd forgotten that Luke was kind of set up.

 

Edited December 12, 2014 by Melgaypet

[SlovakPrincess]

Lol, well yes that does make it more than kinda his fault! Stupid, stupid Luke.

I also blame him for stupid Sonny because wasn't Sonny initially introduced as Luke's mob contact when he got forced back into the mob?

[SlovakPrincess]

The rewrites of Holly's character were ridiculous. Because I watched her introduction and enjoyed she and Robert falling in love with one another, I was angry, but if I hadn't have seen any of those early years, I probably would have hated her too.

Yeah, the build up to that couple was great from what I've seen. And Robert had that great house with the computer room and sauna - I would've loved living there with him, too!

Edited December 12, 2014 by SlovakPrincess

[sometimesfan]

Yeah, the build up to that couple was great from what I've seen. And Robert had that great house with the computer room and sauna - I would've loved living there with him, too!

 

They were so cute when they were falling in love and didn't want to admit it.

[Ambrosefolly]

At least with the earlier Karen/Sonny clip, Sonny was being painted as a controlling creeper, they weren't trying to romanticize him or even make him sympathetic. He came a cross as a weaselly loser and Karen was allowed to shut him down, topped off with him being juxtaposition against the stoic Dr.Hardy and the powerful Dr. Alan Q. The rest of the clips even when he is in the wrong, the audience was forced fed he was in the right.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Ambrosefolly

[ulkis]

So back in 2003 all the ABC soaps had a "fan fantasy" episode that showed (supposedly) scenarios the fans wanted to see. GH's episode was about Sonny, it was a what-if scenario where he had an out of body experience and ghost Luke was showing him that he had to change his ways or when he really died he'd go to the pits of hell. And at the end of the episode Sonny said basically, "I know I'm awful, but I don't care, I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing." Which was infuriating because it was basically Guza speaking through Sonny and saying "I know he sucks and I don't care, this awful person is still gonna be the star of the show and everyone is going to treat him like a hero."

 

Here is the transcript

 

http://tvmegasite.net/transcripts/gh/older/2003/gh-trans-02-26-03.shtml

 

and the actual episode

 

[Lillybee]

One thing I really hated about Sonny and Jason was that they wanted to take Maxie out because she saw Michael in the wrong place at the right time and were afraid that she would tell what she knew. Spin was able to have them reconsider because he would talk Maxie into perjuring herself.

 

So much for saying the Sonny and Jason always targeted bad people.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Lillybee

[Guest]

At least with the earlier Karen/Sonny clip, Sonny was being painted as a controlling creeper, they weren't trying to romanticize him or even make him sympathetic. He came of course as a weaselly loser and Karen was allowed to shut him down, topped off with him being juxtaposition against the stoic Dr.Hardy and the powerful Dr. Alan Q. The rest of the clips even when he is in the wrong, the audience was forced fed he was in the right.

 

That was my line in the sand where I went from liking Sonny to not being able to stand him.  Sonny was a pariah in the beginning and he slowly began building friendships.  The key was that the friendships he made were with people who had a more fluid moral code and history of law breaking.  It made sense that they didn't ostracize him. 

 

I really liked Sonny and Luke's friendship.  I loved when Luke, Sonny, and Lucy teamed up to take down Scully.  I forgave Sonny a lot of things, for a long time, because he walked into a warehouse to distract Scully while Luke rescued a kidnapped Lucy.  It was fun to watch Sonny baffled at how much joy Luke and Lucy took at scheming.  It was fun to watch Kevin apoplectic over her friendship with Luke and Sonny.  It was hysterical to watch Sonny and Luke watch Kevin go apoplectic because Lucy tended to explain Sonny and Luke related things to Kevin in the club with an audience.  Not to mention the time she decided to punish Mac and Kevin for Norma and Eve and dragged them (pun intended) to Luke's and then proceeded to, well check this out...  I cued it up to the start of the torture but the Sonny related stuff is at 25:20 and 29:15

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uPltbm7iO0Y#t=1179

 

I started getting annoyed with Sonny when Robin would lash out at Mac for not seeing what a great guy Sonny was (despite a brief burning desire to see a Seve and Lorma double date).  I was done with Sonny when Lucky died in the fire and his friendship with Luke was over and when Brenda got committed and Lucy firmly came down on the side of Sonny had hurt her friend Brenda too much.  I was left in a place where Sonny's relationships that I had invested in were ash and Sonny was a joy sucking void that ruined the entire show and yet everyone excused him and forgave him everything.

 

In the end, its the levity that used to counterbalance the dour don that they lost sight of and Sonny is unbearable without it.

Edited December 13, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Carly and Liz are comedy gold

 

 

2008 was the year of Sam.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Box305]

Jesus Christ, Carly was a pain in the ass back then. Wait, what am I saying? She still is. Shrieking harpy.

 

And I couldn't stand this Lucky either. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by Box305

[UYI]

God, those blonde highlights just do NOT flatter Kelly Monaco AT ALL. She was just meant to have darker hair.

 

They're not great on Becky either, but they flatter her a little bit more.

 

"You made a baby, any bitch in heat can do that" is a classic line, IDGAF that Carly's the one who said it.

 

This scene with Carly telling off Sonny could've been awesome if, oh I don't know, SHE HAD ACTUALLY STUCK TO IT. Alas, she didn't...

 

[ch1]

And now he is the greatest father ever and its a crime against humanity that Michael changed his name from Corinthos. 

 

At the end of the day these stories are just pointless because nothing changes.

[peachmangosteen]

When did Jason/Sam start? I'm trying to determine whether or not I can claim teenage stupidity for why I was so into them at first.

[OnceSane]

When did Jason/Sam start? I'm trying to determine whether or not I can claim teenage stupidity for why I was so into them at first.

End of November-early December 2004 for romance, but pregnant Sam moved in with Jason in late May 2004.

Edited December 14, 2014 by OnceSane

[Tiger]

This scene with Carly telling off Sonny could've been awesome if, oh I don't know, SHE HAD ACTUALLY STUCK TO IT. Alas, she didn't...

My favorite 'Carly tells Sonny off' scene was in late 05/early 06, after the train crash during which Carly had escaped from Rose Lawn. She was in a hospital gown on the roof of the hospital and told Sonny and their relationship and co-dependency was a sickness.

And I've been thinking of that scene lately because to me LW is playing Carly's love for Sonny as an addiction/dependency; it's not actually love.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Tiger

[LeftPhalange]

 

This scene with Carly telling off Sonny could've been awesome if, oh I don't know, SHE HAD ACTUALLY STUCK TO IT. Alas, she didn't

 

I LOVED the brief period when Carly hated Sonny after Jax was presumed dead. Too bad it didn't last because  I can't have nice things.

[dubbel zout]

LW is playing Carly's love for Sonny as an addiction/dependency; it's not actually love.

Carly can't ever be without a man. There always has to be someone sniffing around if she isn't in an actual relationship. I wish they'd allow her to be truly alone—no Sonny, no Jason, no Michael, no suitor—and have to fend for herself. But that will never happen.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Carly can't ever be without a man. There always has to be someone sniffing around if she isn't in an actual relationship. I wish they'd allow her to be truly alone—no Sonny, no Jason, no Michael, no suitor—and have to fend for herself. But that will never happen.

 

If it did, Carly really would end up in Rose Lawn. Or Ferncliffe, or some other nature-themed mental hospital. She wouldn't know how to survive, and thus would have a complete mental collapse.

[UYI]

I LOVED the brief period when Carly hated Sonny after Jax was presumed dead. Too bad it didn't last because  I can't have nice things.

 

I was just watching that last night. 

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks Carly, with the curly hair and her teeth clenched, kind of resembles a lion ready to strike in that thumbnail?

 

Just me?

[LegalParrot81]

 

When Luke and Laura returned in late 1993, Luke was forced back into the mob.  That put him at odds with Sean, the then Police Commissioner.

 

Although, when they returned in '93, Luke by all rights had reason not to trust Sean, it was Sean who had set him up for a murder charge that set off  the 1983 Mexico adventure.  Luke wasn't sure that Sean really had turned in his black hat for the white hat.

 

 

Sean got badly injured and it was kinda Luke's fault, right? I just remember him being wheeled out of the hospital while Tiff tearfully hugged Robin.

 

  The scenes with Tiffany and Luke in the hospital  when Tiff found out Luke had been the one to shoot Sean were heart breaking.  Sharon and Tony were very good together.

[SlovakPrincess]

It's sort of infuriating how many chances they've had to let Carly move on and become a better, more self aware person ... only to set her back again and again. The Franco crap which completely ruined this character, having her sleep with Sonny yet again ... Ugh.

I'm a longtime Carly hater, but written much differently in recent years, I could've learned to appreciate her somewhat. Alas...

[peachmangosteen]

End of November-early December 2004 for romance, but pregnant Sam moved in with Jason in late May 2004.

 

Shit, I was 20. I have no excuse!

[dubbel zout]

It's sort of infuriating how many chances they've had to let Carly move on and become a better, more self aware person ... only to set her back again and again. The Franco crap which completely ruined this character, having her sleep with Sonny yet again ... Ugh.

 

And it's not just Carly. Jason was the Borg (it's too early to know what nuJason will be like); Sonny is still total scum. Sam is...I don't know what; Patrick and Nik are complete douches. All these characters have been this way for way too long. Any self-awareness is almost immediately negated. The soap format allows for characters to grow and change, but Ron is unable and/or unwilling to write any compelling character beats.

[UYI]

Shit, I was 20. I have no excuse!

 

To be fair, the brain isn't often fully developed in maturity until the mid 20's ;) .

 

So in other words, at almost 26, my brain should be just fully developed now. Yeah, let's go with that. :P

 

Anyway:

 

This has one of my favorite montages, set to Eric Clapton's "Tears In Heaven". Holly, Sean, Tiffany, Mac & Robin react to Robert & Anna's "deaths." Sean is especially heartbreaking here.

 

The montage starts at 3:28:

 

Edited December 15, 2014 by UYI

[SlovakPrincess]

Now you've done it, UYI. ;) You post these clips and down the Internet rabbit hole I go to find more good stuff.

Spy sex flashback!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KvGcy-rQjMo

[yowsah1]

I started getting annoyed with Sonny when Robin would lash out at Mac for not seeing what a great guy Sonny was

 

And we all saw how Robin's loyalty towards Sonny was rewarded.

 

"Escort Miss Scorpio home."

[nilyank]

 

Escort Miss Scorpio home."

 

 

I never understood why this was considered to be the most horrible thing. Sonny didn't call Robin any names, didn't say it an angry voice, and didn't say it was the end of their relationship. If I am not mistakes, Sonny and Robin said goodbye to each other and there were no hard feelings between them. When she came back to visit during the next Nurses Ball, Robin was happy to see Sonny.

[Lillybee]

Until Sonny still wanting to kill Jax and misaimed and winged Robin in the arm in her own house in front of Emma.

[UYI]

Well, initially, until Robin found out Sonny was married to Carly.

 

 

Although they patched things up at Lila's funeral, which she came back for the year before she returned to PC permanently:

 

[Tiger]

I believe Lila's funeral was the only time Robin interacted with TB's Carly and I loved how they played that scene.

ETA: its interesting, seeing those clips with Robin and SBr's Carly, it really highlights to me why the Carly/Robin dynamic has never worked with LW: she looks so much older than KMc. Not that LW looks old, she looks great for her age, but she definitely looks much older than KMc .

Edited December 15, 2014 by Tiger

[dubbel zout]

LW is physically so much bigger than KMc, too, that she can look like a bully. I'm not saying LW is big, just that most of the other women are so teeny. I think LW does a good job in scenes opposite KMc, BH, KeMo, and VM (when she was on) not to loom over them. It also helps that all of those characters stand up to Carly, so at least there's some parity on a verbal level.

Edited December 15, 2014 by dubbel zout

[Cobalt Stargazer]

LW is physically so much bigger than KMc, too, that she can look like a bully. I'm not saying LW is big

 

According to IMDB, Laura Wright is five-six, but she does look a lot taller than that in comparison to KMc, who is only five-two. Maybe it's because Carly is a natural-born snarler that makes her seem so intimidating.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[SlovakPrincess]

The Lila's funeral scenes were a little schmaltzy but I did enjoy them. Until Jason. Blah. Zzzzzzz. He was so damn boring.

Tracy wasn't taking Lila's death very well, was she?

As for Robin being disgusted the first time she saw Sonny with Carly... imagine how grossed out she'd be if she knew it all started with the dirty hate sex...that Jason walked in on while bleeding from a bullet wound and making sad puppy eyes. Hee hee.

Edited December 16, 2014 by SlovakPrincess

[jennifer6973]

No, she wasn't.  But in all fairness Edward was played by Jed Allen at the time and I think TPTB needed someone grieving who'd worked with Anna Lee more.  I think it was more Jane missing Anna then anything.

[dubbel zout]

I'll never forget Tracy wailing, "I want my mommy!" I had intense secondhand embarrassment for JE on that line. It wasn't the sentiment, it was the words. Yikes.

[UYI]

I'll admit it, Tracy crying out "I want my mommy!" for Lila makes me cry. Every. Time.

 

It's not on YouTube anymore, though. Alan had a similar scene when AJ "died" a year later:

 

 

That said, there is this scene with Alan and Tracy after Lila's funeral:

 

Edited December 16, 2014 by UYI

[Ambrosefolly]

I like Ned, but I am glad that Alan called him out for his treatment of AJ. I kind of hate it that he gets to skate while everyone gangs up on Tracy. I think he treated AJ worse than Tracy in some regards:

 

1. It was more constant. Tracy was often banished.
2. No one took Tracy's opinions of AJ seriously, but held Ned in high regard, he treated him as poorly.
3. In a strange way, Tracy treated AJ more as an equal because she viewed him as a threat/competition, while Ned could run ELQ anytime he wanted to and knew. It was his backing that allowed Michael to take over. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by Ambrosefolly

[SlovakPrincess]

I've never been a big fan of Ned. I only enjoyed him when he slept with his aunt Monica and later committed bigamy. Now that was good, fun soap!

I'm ok with Tracy saying "I want my mommy!", simply because I've seen grown people in real life react that way to a parent's death, just completely regress in the moment. It's pretty upsetting and awkward to witness, but I've seen it. I could see Tracy in particular react that way because, for all her outward hardness, she's immature in certain ways and Lila was probably one of the few people who loved her unconditionally.

[yowsah1]

Here's the video of A.J. and Carly and the fateful encounter on the stairs... which clearly shows that A.J. DID NOT THROW HER DOWN THE STAIRS!!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA9b5s7t4eA#t=275

 

What really sticks out to me in this scene is when A.J. says to Carly, "I feel so much guilt for giving Michael you for a mother..." and then proceeds to lay some very painful truths on Carly.  Firstly, because of the way the incomparable Sarah Joy Brown reacts - she just winds up into this ball of hurt and rage in reaction, you can see he's cut her down to the bone with that comment.  Secondly, because it seems to me if RC really did want to honor GH history the way he claims, he'd have a scene where Michael confronts Carly on a stairs and tells her, "The only thing my father did wrong was give me you as a mother ".  Of course, rather than a dramatic tumble at the end of the scene, Michael walks off and leaves Carly to chew on the bitter realization that karma is indeed a bitch.

Edited December 18, 2014 by yowsah1

[SlovakPrincess]

Gee Carly, maybe you shouldn't yank yourself backwards while standing on the stairs. Idiot. Although I do buy that Carly would convince herself AJ pushed her and truly believe it.

AJ clutching his flask nervously like Gollum stroking his precious was a little funny.

I always forget how pretty Sarah Brown is. Probably because I find Carly's personality so ugly.

[yowsah1]

Gee Carly, maybe you shouldn't yank yourself backwards while standing on the stairs. Idiot. Although I do buy that Carly would convince herself AJ pushed her and truly believe it.

 

What kills me is that everybody else believed it - even Edward, who was right there and heard A.J. cry out "Carly!" in horror as he saw her fall down the stairs.  Because guys who fling women down staircases always call out afterwards, or some such hooey.  I always had my doubts that Sonny believed A.J. threw her - him saying he believed it always came off as a tactical decision rather than a deeply held belief to me.  But this was really the beginning of the end for any fair writing for A.J. and also the beginning os Sonny and Carly eating the show and turning into the vile, hypocritical, monumental assholes we all know and hate today.

[Chairperson Meow]

Question. My memory is um foggy on this. If there were to be a switch in Morgan's paternity or parentage......who would he be or who would his father be?

I'm thinking Ric. Didn't he and Carly have a ONS? Lorenzo?

Could Faith have tricked AJ and switched the kids? What happened to Faith? I forgot. Could Lorenzo have kidnapped Real Morgan? Or could Ric have switched them?

[WhoaWhoKnew]

I don't remember Ric and Carly sleeping together. He did drug her and lead her to believe he raped her. She did a paternity test while she was still pregnant and Sonny was established the father.

Edited December 21, 2014 by WhoaWhoKnew

[OnceSane]

Ric and Carly never had sex; he tried to convince her otherwise, however.

I highly doubt Faith switched Real!Morgan for a fake one. Why would she? Didn't they plan to sell Morgan and Kristina or put them in foster care or something? (AJ only wanted Michael.)

[Tiger]

I highly doubt Faith switched Real!Morgan for a fake one. Why would she? Didn't they plan to sell Morgan and Kristina or put them in foster care or something? (AJ only wanted Michael.)

It really would be the ultimate revenge on Sonny to take his child and for Sonny to then cluelessly raise another kid.

This is Ron's GH. Faith could be alive and she could have raised the real Morgan as her own.

That would actually be a really cool story, that Faith switched out Morgan and then faked death and then raised the real Morgan as her own.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Tiger

[Chairperson Meow]

I wonder if Real Morgan is a Mensa Member with an even temper and a fabulous head of hair. Maybe he has great taste in women.

[Ambrosefolly]

I highly doubt Faith switched Real!Morgan for a fake one. Why would she? Didn't they plan to sell Morgan and Kristina or put them in foster care or something? (AJ only wanted Michael.)

The only thing is that everyone would be cursing AJ as he spearheaded the kidnapping. 

[yowsah1]

Question. My memory is um foggy on this. If there were to be a switch in Morgan's paternity or parentage......who would he be or who would his father be?

 

As I pointed out in another thread, A.J. was on canvas then.  He and Carly could have had a bout of hatesex.

[Chairperson Meow]

This intrigues me as BC resembles Stewart Damon (young SD), has SK, SBu, and Miller's eyes (those light piercing eyes), and even has a slight resemblance to BW. That is interesting.

[TeeVee329]

I like Morgan well enough, but the "He's a honorary Q, him and Kiki!" push during Alice's heart surgery story killed any interest I had ever in him being a real or honorary Quartermaine.