GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[HeatLifer]

Patrick continues to be an idiot a mere year later. Aw, Robert's always right.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I figured out why it seemed as if RC's OLTL was better than what he's done on GH so far. I was invested in OLTL even at its worst because of familial bonds, that is why the Jessica paternity musical chairs still burn.

 

OLTL had a matriarch. No. It had two. Vicki Lord and Dorian. Y&R had one in Katherine until recently and AMC had several. These characters were almost never sidelined and where the glues that held their canvas together. If GH had one of those typer characters, at least one of the gatherings during these holidays, would be spent in one of their homes and it'll center around family, not plot point pairings like we were subjected to on GH.

 

I don't blame RC for the lack on GH, Vicki and Dorian type characters are decades in the makings. He couldn't make any current character a matriarch or patriarch IMO. Someone like Tracy Quartermaine wouldn't work though she  has the longevity. She lack the relationships ( must have at least 3 loving relationships with offsprings. She is also too humorless and caustic to be that for her family. Monica. Nope. She's too meek and have been sidelined too much in the past decade. Laura has been gone for far too long to qualify. Same with Anna. Alexis is too young but if she stops acting like a teenager in the body of a middd aged woman, she could head the Davis/Cassadine/Morgan crew one day.

 

I am sleep deprived but right now, I can only think of two men who could have been patriarchs in the past decade. Edward and Alan but unfortunately neither where ever given their due since Sonny's mob took over, and Guza killed them to boot.

ETA - Forgive me Mac. He could have been it for the Scorpio/Jones girls if Georgie and Robin were still around and he got more screen time. Mac doesn't get nearly enough credit for raising those girls as a single parent. 

[amaranta]

OLTL had a matriarch. No. It had two. Vicki Lord and Dorian. Y&R had one in Katherine until recently and AMC had several. These characters were almost never sidelined and where the glues that held their canvas together. If GH had one of those typer characters, at least one of the gatherings during these holidays, would be spent in one of their homes and it'll center around family, not plot point pairings like we were subjected to on GH.

 

I liked that aspect of OLTL and I do miss it.  Long ago, in the 1980's and the pre-mob days (which is when I started watching), I did think they were setting up Monica Q and Leslie Weber to have that dynamic, and for their rivalry and relationship as frenemies to grow in a similar way.  But that soon got shot to hell.

 

And I remain bitter to this day about Alan's death.  He was just coming into his own as show patriarch, and ... gone.

 

Tony and Genie could have grown there eventually, but TPTB had to undermine GF (IMO) resulting in her departure, and Geary apparently has to keep having "I'm a bad ass" story lines, even when he looks like he's about to fall over.  Who knows?  Maybe Geary had a deep seated fear of being relegated to the patriarch slot and that's when they started retconning about Luke never wanting kids, not wanting to be a family man.

 

 

It's kind of weird to be watching a show where most everyone is related to each in other in some way, yet there is still no sense of family.

 

 

ETA: You gotta love spell check.  Deep seated became deep sedated.  Yeah, I changed it. :-)

Edited December 28, 2014 by amaranta

[Box305]

 

And I remain bitter to this day about Alan's death.  He was just coming into his own as show patriarch, and ... gone.

 

I stopped watching/caring about the show for a long time after they killed Alan. I was pretty pissed about it. 

[sometimesfan]

I stopped watching/caring about the show for a long time after they killed Alan. I was pretty pissed about it. 

 

I'm still pissed.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I stopped watching/caring about the show for a long time after they killed Alan. I was pretty pissed about it. 

 

 

 

I'm still pissed.

 

Me three. It was the most insulting (to me and to the actor) way to treat Alan/Stuart.  And since they were going to do that, to have him die alone.

 

Fucking Guzasshole.

[Harmony233]

I bought some lucy and scott edits and its pretty darn depressing seeing the Q living room filled up.THis was back when Ned wanted to run ELQ and him and alan were fighting for control and Alan was determined not to allow tracy to get her hands on it.Not only did killing off Alan hurt monicas character.I really think it hurt tracys too.Her and alans rivlary was fun.

 

I really do miss when the show had stories pre mob crap.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Harmony233

[TheGourmez]

But he was pretty! So, so pretty.  :-)

 

 

Ah, Coop. We let him get away with so much because he was so, so pretty. I see him on commercials on Hulu sometimes. Couldn't act at all.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I had nightmares from watching Alan stumble out of the MC amidst a hail of bullets. She gets a bad rep but I thought Natalia Livingston was outstanding during that crises.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Can someone explain this to me like I'm a big-head, know-it-all mooch that recently made out with my ex-husband/mothers' ex-lover/ex-boyfriends' brother?

 

Tiger, when Duke first came back to town, it turned out that he was actually Cesar Faison, only he was wearing a latex mask that fooled everyone, including Anna. Olivia had visions of him as Faison, but I don't think anyone believed her. Faison-as-Duke is the one who shot Jason in the back and kicked him into the Port Charles harbor, creating Dock and Roll, the greatest GH moment in years. I'm surprised the echoes of the hosannas that were shouted on that day can't still be heard, because it was that awesome.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[SlovakPrincess]

Apropos of nothing, I am in the final stretch of the 1981 Ice Princess story. There is a weather changing machine. An underground lair. A tropical island. A character named Nigel Pennysmith. And it all still makes miles and miles more sense than the storytelling of current GH. At least the story follows a logical if bizarre path and the motivations of the characters made solid sense.

However, years and years later, it's hard not to be like ugh, the fucking Cassadines. While the original three brothers (Mikkos, Tony, Victor) had an interesting competitive dynamic in this story, I can't enjoy it because I know those Cassadine fuckers are just going to replicate like cockroaches and haunt the show forever in increasingly stupid ways.

And we ended up with gross nasty Stavros and unkillable Helena, who I couldn't even stand in the 90s. Fucking Helena. I want that little old lady murdered now. For serious.

[ulkis]

I am totally agreed that Helena needs to be done now.

[dubbel zout]

Apropos of nothing, I am in the final stretch of the 1981 Ice Princess story. There is a weather changing machine. An underground lair. A tropical island. A character named Nigel Pennysmith. And it all still makes miles and miles more sense than the storytelling of current GH. At least the story follows a logical if bizarre path and the motivations of the characters made solid sense.

 

That's the thing. The Ice Princess story was completely nuts, but it had an internal logic that totally worked. I don't think any of Ron's stories now have any of that. He's more concerned with moving the pieces so that it gets him to where he wants to go. So what if it means characters are dumbed down and/or act out of character? As long as it makes his plot point, it doesn't matter.

[Francie]

That's the thing. The Ice Princess story was completely nuts, but it had an internal logic that totally worked. I don't think any of Ron's stories now have any of that. He's more concerned with moving the pieces so that it gets him to where he wants to go. So what if it means characters are dumbed down and/or act out of character? As long as it makes his plot point, it doesn't matter.

Yep, the story itself was fantastical, but it followed the mechanics of good story-telling. The situation was unreal, but the characters' motivations, actions, and reactions were realistic.  And there was no see-sawing in the characterization of the characters just to mold to the pre-destined conclusion of the plot, which is one of Ron's hugest flaws.

 

This is a small point, but I remember watching at the time, and gasping aloud from shock when the alarm went off and we found out it was because Alexandra (and one of the Cassadine brothers too?) had walked into the freeze compartment and froze to death.  Now I can see that it was the writers' way of clearing out the "dead wood" before the climax, but it served the story in terms of ramping up the stakes.  And never for a second did I think she was going to come back to life.  Mikkos either. When it was done, it was done. 

[SlovakPrincess]

No, don't give away the ending, I'm watching it in real time!

I kid, I kid! I do know how the story ends, I'm just enjoying discovering how it all unfolds. I'll be sorry to see Alex go when she dies - I've grown fond of that ruthless bitch and I like the actress. The Mikkos actor really kills it, too. I can't believe he makes it work but he does.

Luke and Laura are actually the least interesting part of it for me. Watching Robert run around the island like a shirtless jungle boy and getting to know Tiffany are the highlights.

[MSquared]

 

The Mikkos actor really kills it, too. I can't believe he makes it work but he does.

 

John Colicos...He had a wonderful history of playing baddies...Balthazar on the original Battlestar Galactica; a Klingon, first an adversary of Kirk's then a friend of Jadiza Dax's and Worf's, on Star Trek and DS9.  I always had the dream of bringing him  back after the Natasha reveal and rehabbing him, setting it as if he were forced to create the weather machine, et al, because of Helena to protect his daughter.  

[SlovakPrincess]

Mikkos isn't completely hateful. I mean, he wants to rule the world, but I think he's just insane enough to think he really will be a benevolent dictator and bring peace to the world (after threatening it and controlling it, of course).

At least he had aspirations beyond kidnapping and resurrecting his fellow villians for no good reason. Not that I would want Ron to bring him back now. He'd just end up kidnapping Robin.

[ulkis]

"Only you have the power to make my weather machine work again, Robin!"

 

"I'm pretty sure I don't, I'm a doctor, not a repairman . . . "

 

"You only think you don't know how to repair it, muahaha!"

[TeeVee329]

"Only you have the power to make my weather machine work again, Robin!"

 

"I'm pretty sure I don't, I'm a doctor, not a repairman . . . "

 

"You only think you don't know how to repair it, muahaha!"

 

I mean, Robin did cure being dead.  Making a weather machine work should be no problem!

[SlovakPrincess]

At this point, Robin should go evil, since it's obviously the only way to get ahead in life in the GH world. Take over the machine and freeze the world, honey! You've earned it with your endless suffering!

Edited December 31, 2014 by SlovakPrincess

[TeeVee329]

Sabrina: Nooo, Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrobin just froze all of Puerto Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrico!

 

Robin: Muahahaha!

[Tiger]

Before Robin freezes Pu-where-toe-RRRRRReeeeeee-cooooo, she needs to freeze Franco, Nina, Kimi, Spencer, Both Lewq's, Dewq, Magdalene, Felix, Jakeson, and Shawn . . .

And then give Joss a hammer and let her smash the frozen popsicles to smithereens!

[ulkis]

Sabrina: Nooo, Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrobin just froze all of Puerto Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrico!

 

Robin: Muahahaha!

 

But then Sabrina will unfreeze it with looooooooooooooove!

[KerleyQ]

At least he had aspirations beyond kidnapping and resurrecting his fellow villians for no good reason. Not that I would want Ron to bring him back now. He'd just end up kidnapping Robin.

 

 

At this point, I assume there's a "Take A Number" dispenser somewhere for villains to wait their turn at kidnapping Robin. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

The Sonny shooting Carly in the head was bad but don't intention count for nothing? He didn't intend to harm her, he happens to be a mobster with terrible aim.

 

I am not also not seeing how Jason being a contract killer has anything to do with Carly falling in love with her kidnapper. 

 

If you're referring to the part where Sonny's actual intention was to kill Lorenzo, then I guess intention does matter. In fact, looking at it that way, it's actually Lorenzo's fault that Carly got shot since he didn't stand up and give Mini McMoobster a clear shot at his back, thus putting her out of harm's way. Admittedly, it does tickle the shit out of me to think that Sonny is so stupid that he could mistake helping someone give birth for trying to kill them, which meant that he probably thought Morgan was made of flour at first. That doesn't mean I'm comfortable with giving him a pass for trying to kill Lorenzo, and by Sonny's own code (ha), Lorenzo was perfectly justified in trying to kill him right back.

 

Also, one of the points against Carly being in a relationship with Lorenzo was that he tried to kill Jason, who was.....wait for it.....a killer himself. Even if I was inclined to be verklempt at the idea of Borgy dying, which I'm not, at several points Jason talked about how dangerous his life was. For Sam, for Liz and Jake, etc, so he was aware that there were risks, even with the brain damage. The day Cesar Faison shot him and booted him into the harbor, I threw a parade in my living room, and I'm only tolerating the 'new' version of Jason because he isn't a robot pretending to be a real boy.

 

Also squared, Carly's forgiven worse than being kidnapped, and most of it, including that bullet in the head, was Sonny's doing. Her relationship with him has always been a trainwreck that's destroyed almost everything in its path - Lorenzo, Jax, and A.J. were all sacrificed on the bloody altar of Sonny and Carly's 'love'. I don't expect Carly to ever have normal, human logic at this point. Someone who first showed up in town with a chip on her shoulder because her bio mom didn't raise her in a brothel was a lost cause from the start, IMO.

[Chairperson Meow]

I've watched Bullet of Love a few times, yet still I wonder has Sonny huffed gas? Was he huffing aerosol hairspray cans before he went in and that's why he couldn't tell that she was in labor? Or maybe he dropped out before biology class and never saw a woman give birth? Sonny does not seem the educational film type.

*To be fair, I wonder if many Port Charles citizens huff gas.

[SlovakPrincess]

I'm pretty sure the current writers do ...

[KerleyQ]

If you're referring to the part where Sonny's actual intention was to kill Lorenzo, then I guess intention does matter. In fact, looking at it that way, it's actually Lorenzo's fault that Carly got shot since he didn't stand up and give Mini McMoobster a clear shot at his back, thus putting her out of harm's way.

 

 

In PC logic, it's totally Lorenzo's fault.  I mean, Julian was a big bad meanie pants for not wanting Sonny or his goons to kill him.  (If Julian was really twisted and manipulative, he'd have said "OK, Sam, to prove I love you and Danny, I'll give Shawn one shot at me.") 

[Chairperson Meow]

I think now it's okay to not like Sonny. But like before 2012, one had to love The Sonny. He had a literal giant glass house on a hill. I do find it awesome that Frank moved him to the burbs. Trick or treat!

Jason Morgan, I believe we are to fear now. But 2012 and before, we had to love. I'm not sure what this new Jason is, but he's not Morgan. Jason Quartermaine is my guess. Traumatized Jason Quartermaine, and we should love him.

But I think Ron is into Morgan as the next big hunk. Which is funny because imo Chad Duell will get the accolades Ron and Frank so desire (and so buy.)

[formerlyfreedom]

Folks, some posts are going to be moved from here to the Sonny topic - let's keep it on GH History in here please, and not discussion of the current storyline, and thank you!

[jsbt]

I think now it's okay to not like Sonny. But like before 2012, one had to love The Sonny. He had a literal giant glass house on a hill. I do find it awesome that Frank moved him to the burbs. Trick or treat!

 

Sonny has lived in that ridiculous house since at least 2004 or 2005.

[dubbel zout]

Why did he move out of the penthouse? Was it when Morgan was born and he and Carly reconciled?

[jsbt]

I remember there were old rumblings that Maurice was feeling insecure and wanted a proper, big set a la Wyndemere, so he got "Greystone" (so fucking stupid). But that was during the period when we blamed just about everything on MB and his ego re: Ted King, and I think only half of those stories are potentially true.

[Tiger]

Sonny has lived in that ridiculous house since at least 2004 or 2005.

I think he moved in shortly before the kids were kidnapped in early 2005. I remember there being an issue where the woman who decorated the house was suspected of being involved.

[jsbt]

I never noticed before but I think it does vaguely resemble the Corleone compound from The Godfather, Part II. I wonder if that was intentional. You never know with that old regime.

[cheyz]

TB's Carly oversaw the decorating, although they were broken up at the time and I don't think she ever lived there. But she had taken college courses in decorating, and of course she knows Sonny best ;-)

[Tiger]

TB's Carly oversaw the decorating, although they were broken up at the time and I don't think she ever lived there. But she had taken college courses in decorating, and of course she knows Sonny best ;-)

Wasn't her name Jordan . . . Julia . . . Something with a J?

I remember being really surprised she never slept with Sonny.

[dubbel zout]

Was that the character played by Kristin Minter? Wasn't she a lawyer or something? I seem to remember she arranged for the house sale and did some decorating, then Carly swanned in and said it was all wrong and redid it.

Edited January 6, 2015 by dubbel zout

[Cobalt Stargazer]

According to Kristin Minter's IMDB page, she played Jordan Baines for all of one episode in 2004. I have no recollection of her, but that doesn't surprise me.

[jsbt]

IIRC Jordan was one of those chicks they tried out to keep Sonny in heartthrob form while casting about for his next big thing to keep him hot. It did not work out with her or Reese - God, what a debacle. Kari fucking Wuhrer. I've watched her for decades and have yet to see her play a convincing human being. She's gotten much worse with age.

Edited January 6, 2015 by jsbt

[Tiger]

According to Kristin Minter's IMDB page, she played Jordan Baines for all of one episode in 2004. I have no recollection of her, but that doesn't surprise me.

I definitely remember her being around for a few months in late 04/early 05.

[TeeVee329]

Talk of Laura in the spoiler/rumor thread reminded me of one of my favorite moments from her 2013 stint, her slapping the crap out of Luke when she caught him shooting a comatose Nikolas up with adrenaline.

 

Edited January 6, 2015 by TeeVee329

[jsbt]

I would post the clip where she freezes Stavros with this primal howl and insane look in her eyes through the glass as they cut to black - kudos to FV, who I think directed that episode - but I have done that a dozen times.

 

Ron got that right. Luke was going to do it but Laura shoved him away and snarled "our daughter!" and did it herself. If it was Guza Laura would have been crying in the corner.

Edited January 6, 2015 by jsbt

[WhoaWhoKnew]

Do we know anything about Elizabeth's mother?

[dubbel zout]

No. We don't even know her name.

[UYI]

It says on Wikipedia (which in itself is a red flag that it's false) that her name is Andrea Trent Webber. How someone came up with THAT name, given that it was probably made up out of thin air, I have no idea.

 

I can't help but wonder if the only reason that they never cast Sarah and Liz's parents is because RDA dared to become famous and he was the only one they would consider to return as Jeff, even though he would probably never come back in a million years. If that's the case, then all it has lead to is a pair of VERY shitty parents who clearly give zero fucks about their youngest daughter (and maybe even their offscreen oldest daughter) and everything she's been through (and I'm saying this as someone who's not really a Liz fan at all). 

[Ambrosefolly]

Okay, I didn't watch any GH before Lucky came to town, but thanks to the wonders of YouTube, I have been able to catch up as much as my schedule will let/availability of the clips, and I read GH history on various fansites when I can. I didn't see any clips of Sly with his father, but did see clips of Sly, and he seemed like a pretty well adjusted kid  that was well liked by everyone (Julie Barrett even called him cool). And he seemed to mourn his father, because he was having nightmares as Jenny told Laura. While I don't have any trouble believing that one can mourn a parent, even if he/she was abusive, it didn't seem that was how the relationship was presented when I started watching. Was there any indication there was any type of abuse he received from Bill as Bobbie mentioned, or is RC rewriting history for the Fluke story?

[UYI]

 

 

I thought I had read there was mention of another Spencer sister in the beginning but it was quickly dropped. Of course, Bobbi showed up in early 78/79(?) and, I might be confusing this Pat sister from somewhere else. I also think RC is reinventing how & when Bobbi and eventually Luke wound up in Port Charles. From what I recall, they both had come from Florida with Ruby and never were in PC before then. I guess RC is taking some (non) creative licensing. It's been done before and I'm sure it will be done again.

 

Bobbie was introduced in late 1977, two days before Gloria Monty took over as EP from Tom Donovan. In fact, she was originally just referred to as Barbara or Barbara Jean. Monty was originally going to nickname her Barbie, but JZ didn't think she "had that kind of a body" (her words--of course, not being blonde probably played a factor here, too) for that nickname to work, so they decided on Bobbie.

 

From what I understand, Pat was referenced early on in the late 70's by Bobbie and Luke (this was WAY before I was born), but never shown onscreen.

Edited January 8, 2015 by UYI

[SlovakPrincess]

I don't recall Bill ever being abusive to Sly. They had a good relationship when they first came on (really, much like Luke and Lucky's early close relationship). Sly really liked Julia when she dated Bill and didn't like it when Bill dumped her for Holly.

Bill lost his way out of greed, and may have started spending less time with Sly or getting irritable (around the time Holly skipped town with all his money). But I don't think he was abusive. And then he died and Sly was very sad.

[Harmony233]

I wasn't much of a Bill fan but he was hardly abusive.There was a custody battle between Bill and his his ex-wife nancy and Bill was clearly the better parent as nancy just wanted Bills money and manipulated sly.