S07.E01: Hyperion Heights

[Rumsy4]

3 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I guess it could be Clone Queen, but then we'd wonder where Wish!Robin is.

Tbh, I forgot about Wish!Robin until you brought him up. But it's unlikely to be Clone Queen. If it is, she won't stop whinign about her HE being ruined becasue she lost Robin again.

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The only character we'd really want a doppelganger for is Hook.

So agree. And I still think it's not very likely to happen.

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

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 And I'll be damned if I stand by and let a bully like you take that way from us anymore.  

Us?  Is that like the Royal "We"?

And we hadn't really seen any evidence of Victoria being a bully trying to take things away from Roni. All we knew was that she was offering money to Roni to sell her business, which is a perfectly legitimate transaction. We didn't see Victoria buying out all the neighboring businesses so that Roni's was alone on the block and losing business. We didn't see her using her sway with the health department or alcoholic beverage commission to crack down on her with fake violations. We didn't see her hired thugs stopping by to "accidentally" break a few bottles if Roni didn't sell. Wanting to buy something doesn't make someone a bully. They need to show us more of Victoria for her to really be a bad guy. Other than her having no legal right for the pressure she puts on Jacinda over Lucy, she seems fairly reasonable, and even with Jacinda, she's not entirely wrong, from what we've seen.

I've come up with yet another way they could have done the Cinderella thing under the curse, and it seems like what would have been more likely if Lady Tremaine had any say in how the curse worked: Lucy is the daughter Victoria adopted from foster care as a way of boosting her public image, but she doesn't really have any motherly relationship with her. The actual work of raising Lucy falls upon Jacinda, the beleaguered nanny. Jacinda and Lucy get along well and have a great relationship, more like a mother and daughter than Victoria's relationship with Lucy, but Victoria takes advantage of her employee, knowing that Jacinda loves Lucy enough that she'll never quit -- stuff like "while Lucy's at school, why don't you take care of the laundry, do the shopping, pick up the dry cleaning, make dinner, clean the house," and she never gets any time off. Anything resembling dating or having a social life is right out. Things get really awkward when Lucy gets it into her head that they're under a curse and that Jacinda is really Cinderella, and really her mother. The episode fits quite well within that. Then Victoria actually has a say over how Jacinda spends her time and whether she knows where Lucy is. Jacinda's in real trouble when Lucy runs away to meet with Henry and when Jacinda gets caught day drinking with Henry. It would also fit with that scenario I had, where Roni has a big "going out of business" party, and Jacinda sneaks out to go but then has to escape when she learns Victoria is coming.

[maryle]

So I did watched the premiere and I am going to be the more objectif I can be.

It was meh at best not the worse thing ever but do not tell me it was not a copy of the original pilote with slight change! 

The first scene with Henry and Lucy was a obvious (parallel ) or copy but with less charisma and hearth! They also give too much exposition to Lucy I felt she just gave the plot for s7 I mean obviously Henry and Lucy will fall in love all over! 

And the acting was suffering from the comparaisong all the actors in the pilotes had more appeal and charisme!

Andrew was ok but I do not really feeling him as a lead! His face is too serious all the time! Cinderella actress was the weakest and the heavy flirting betweenher and Henry in the bar was too soon! Snowing and captain they are not ! In fact they even are not rumbelle! 

The character I did kinda like was Alice, Rodgers and the always grey rumple but it is not enough! I can keep up with the plot coming here! The returning character are releguate in the backseat so not sure if it will be enough for those just watching for them!

For me the worse it the obvious lack of creativity! 

[Camera One]

Reading this thread, there have been so many good suggestions of what they could have done.  I wasn't pre-disposed to dislike Cinderella, but in their enthusiasm to make her a kickass Cinderella who stands up for herself, it didn't give the viewers a chance to like her before she assaulted Henry or before she got fired.  As someone else said, what was the deal with having to steal a knife?  Did the Fairy Godmother give her the dress and the carriage without realizing she was going there to kill the Prince?  

Jacinda's plan to go to that "island" made zero sense.  Maybe it was her dream to live on that island, but if she can't afford a house there, then she shouldn't be taking her kid there.

[KingOfHearts]

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I wasn't pre-disposed to dislike Cinderella, but in their enthusiasm to make her a kickass Cinderella who stands up for herself, it didn't give the viewers a chance to like her before she assaulted Henry or before she got fired.

Before Snow was a bandit who knocked Charming out, we had known for her two episodes already. We saw them happily married, going to great lengths to save each other. In the present, Mary Margaret was a sweet schoolteacher paying for her own rent. She even bailed Emma out of jail. When Bandit Snow comes in, you know that she either had a change of heart or deep inside she wasn't an assailant. There's cohesion between her real identity and cursed self. The same might be true of Murderella, but not in a likable way.

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Jacinda's plan to go to that "island" made zero sense.  Maybe it was her dream to live on that island, but if she can't afford a house there, then she shouldn't be taking her kid there.

I laughed during the scene she pointed it out to Lucy, since we never actually got to see it. Not even a badly CGI'ed one out in the distance. It's one of the main characters' primary motivations, and we don't even get to see it. 

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As someone else said, what was the deal with having to steal a knife? 

What was she planning to do? Strangle him?

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The sword fighting made me cringe a little bit as well.  I appreciate that they want to show a woman as someone who could fight and be more than a damsel, so I feel a bit guilty critiquing it, but it was a little overdone.  She was able to grab a sword and fight like an expert against all of the guards in a large gown and heels and get away with ease.   It just seemed like they were trying to hard to show what a spunky heroine she was (same with her slugging Henry and stealing the bike), but I think it would have worked a little better if it had been toned down just a bit.  Part of it might have been how it was choreographed, because it just was not that convincing. 

Somehow Henry was able to fight off the remaining guards and escape unscathed. He didn't know that Tremaine framed Murderella, so he was essentially helping a murderer escape while putting the lives of innocent guards at stake. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

This is an exclusive look at the story that Henry was inspired to write at the end of the episode!

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Once upon a time, there lived a beautiful princess who dreamed of living on a island.  She confided her innermost desire to a stranger she just met at a tavern.  He promptly sold her out because he had never heard of public transportation.  The End.

-----------

Just kidding, he just rewrote his first book except switched all the genders.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Camera One

[kingshearte]

I have to admit, I had a chuckle when he replaced "Insert poetic opening here" or whatever with "Once upon a time." Because that's definitely a solid and specific enough opening* that once you're through that hurdle, the rest will just come flowing out effortlessly. Only a true literary genius could come up with that stunner of an opening.

"It was a dark and stormy night..." would have been better.

* That totally isn't already the actual title of your first book...

[KingOfHearts]

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I have to admit, I had a chuckle when he replaced "Insert poetic opening here" or whatever with "Once upon a time."

We're supposed to believe he continued writing, but it seemed like he was just as stuck. Writing "Once upon a time" was some kind of triumph, but that was probably the opening line to his first book. It's not creative. He hasn't learned anything new. We don't know if he got any bright ideas. Even August would have probably gotten some better campy fanfiction by now. If Henry had said, "Oh yeah! I'm going to base it on my current experiences!" or "I'll make a new curse in Seattle!" that would have been slightly more substantial. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

That was actually inspired by true events.  When Adam and Eddy sat down at a computer to come up with this retread, uh, I mean requel.  

Edited October 8, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

8 minutes ago, Camera One said:

requel.  

Trademark pending.

The OUAT Facebook page says, "this new beginning has as much heart and magic as ever", which is funny considering that's exactly what's wrong with it. The premiere didn't have the heart or the magic, and that's why there's a resounding "meh". It didn't have the same spirit as rest of the show. It's not terrible that it wants to be its own thing, but it's not very good by itself either. I guess it's better than S6.

[Camera One]

I found it one level worse than S6, if only because the acting was generally subpar, so I'm not invested in what happens to anybody.  It's like if every character in Season 6 was Jasmine since she was one of the new characters in Season 6 and I wasn't too invested in her.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Camera One

[rogvortex58]

Bad continuity. Henry is wearing a green sweater when he greets Lucy at the door. Then the sweater changes when they’re in the apartment.

Unforgivable. Have Adam and Eddy no decency?

[Dianthus]

I got a text earlier from a OUaT watching friend, and I was, like, "oh yeah, that." So, you can see how excited I was for this whatever it is. Nothing I've read/heard about this has me feeling good about it. Haven't thought about Burn Notice in ages.

[Camera One]

7 minutes ago, rogvortex58 said:

Bad continuity. Henry is wearing a green sweater when he greets Lucy at the door. Then the sweater changes when they’re in the apartment.

Unforgivable. Have Adam and Eddy no decency?

Henry at the door in the green sweater was filmed at the end of Season 6.  Someone was washing that sweater and accidentally spilled bleach into the machine, so it had lost much of its green color by the time Andrew wore it again when Season 7 was filmed.  Hope that helps!  

[rogvortex58]

Seriously?

[Camera One]

Sorry, I was joking.  I wonder if it was color-correction?  The continuity team couldn't have been that negligent, could they?  Never mind; it's this show.  And did that hideous sweater come in two colors? 

I went to rewatch to see the color change in his shirt (yep, I have nothing else to do tonight).  I saw a few scenes here and there, and the current-day stuff was very disjointed with illogical jumps.  I mentioned how Victoria somehow knew Henry's last name when she barged in to Roni's.  Later, after a scene with Henry/Hook at the police station, he randomly wanders to the community garden and sees Lucy.  Is this neighborhood *that* small?   Victoria also threatened Henry, by saying he would "be sorry you ever set foot on this street".  On this STREET?  

Edited October 8, 2017 by Camera One

[andromeda331]

29 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Sorry, I was joking.  I wonder if it was color-correction?  The continuity team couldn't have been that negligent, could they?  Never mind; it's this show.  And did that hideous sweater come in two colors? 

I went to rewatch to see the color change in his shirt (yep, I have nothing else to do tonight).  I saw a few scenes here and there, and the current-day stuff was very disjointed with illogical jumps.  I mentioned how Victoria somehow knew Henry's last name when she barged in to Roni's.  Later, after a scene with Henry/Hook at the police station, he randomly wanders to the community garden and sees Lucy.  Is this neighborhood *that* small?   Victoria also threatened Henry, by saying he would "be sorry you ever set foot on this street".  On this STREET?  

Seriously? Victoria is so powerful that all she owns is one street? How is that scary or evil? 

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, rogvortex58 said:

Bad continuity. Henry is wearing a green sweater when he greets Lucy at the door. Then the sweater changes when they’re in the apartment.

Unforgivable. Have Adam and Eddy no decency?

Is this a trick question?

[tennisgurl]

I wish I could quit you, show! I cant say I hated this or anything, it had some good moments and interesting ideas, but it mostly seemed like a mediocre remake of the original pilot, with lots of the beats of the first episode, but without the real emotions or magic or mystery. 

I cant say I got too attached to any of the new characters, including Henry, who is basically a whole new character now. He has some aspects of kid Henry, but not enough to make me feel really connected to him. Lucy is a more precocious Henry, but without the sympathetic history of isolation and abuse. Jacinda is a String Female Character who is basically a walking cliche of what a String Female Character should be. She yells at her boss even when she knows she needs the job (and for a guy who was supposedly such an asshole, he seemed quick to give her the job back even after she quit and stormed off in a huff) and as Cinderella she steals from people trying to help her, and tries to straight up murder people. I dont think having your princess heroine being such an asshole right away is such a great idea. When we saw Snow knocking Charming out, he was actually a threat to her, and we had already spent some time with them and saw their love for each other that they will have. Here, she knocks out and steals from a guy who was going to take her anyway to the place she was going, and almost stabs the prince in revenge in her first appearance. Its not a good first impression for a show like this. 

So the real evil this season is...gentrification! Our evil villain wants to diabolically make a juice bar! Who in Seattle would possibly like such a horrific thing?!?! Look, show, if your going to have Lady Tremaine as some evil landowner or something who wants to force the locals out to make way for hipster stuff or something, maybe they should actually show why this is such a bad thing? We dont see locals being unable to pay rent due to skyrocketing prices, or being unable to afford the new local coffee place or grocery story or see a vibrant community that is being threatened. We see her being evil in the fairy tale world (what is it with this show and killing fairy godmothers? This one was especially brutal too) but I dont really care about defeating her in Seattle. 

The worst part seems to be the lack of magic and adventure here that we had in the pilot, which this episode was so desperate to be like. In the pilot, we saw Storybrooke as a magical, mysterious place, and we got to see the supporting characters and guess what they were like in the fairy-tale world, and got to see hints of their true idenities. The fairytale world seemed otherworldly and epic, and the real world had an also otherhworldly magical realism vibe. The magic world here was just anothe rgeneric forest and CGI castle that could exist anywhere, and I never got a feeling for Hyperion Heights as an actual place. It felt so generic, without any interesting new mysteries. 

[Camera One]

The problem with Cinderella's "sassy" introduction exists on a smaller scale with Lucy.  Are we supposed to think it's cute when she says stuff like "This place is a dump!" and looking at his manuscript and going, "You have some work to do"?  Young Henry in the pilot was pretty brash drinking the orange juice, but he actually did show his weakness quickly when Emma threatened to use her superpower.  His request was simple - please come home with me.  As a new viewer, we would be like Emma and not really buy into the Curse stuff, so it was a believable scenario.  A kid finds out his real birth mother and seeks her out.  Later on in the car, Henry elaborates on the Curse, but he doesn't announce that Emma's parents are in Storybrooke.  He just says Emma's in the book.  I remember in the pilot, in the first little bit, I initially thought for some reason that Henry might be Snowing's child.  After six seasons, we know too much for this same setup (with opposite genders) to work, even if the writing and the acting was up to par (which they weren't).

Lucy says this:

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It's up-and-coming because my step-grandma, Cinderella's step-mom, is trying to bring people from this world in, so all the fairy-tale characters move out. Move away. Get separated. Just like you lost Cinderella, everyone will lose each other forever. 

First of all, exposition fairy alert.  Secondly, we needed to see this in the first episode, and the explanation should have happened after.  We should have seen Victoria evicting tenants.  We should have seen people we recognize as being friends/families in fairy tales being driven apart and leaving Hyperion Heights.  This should have been the first glimpse that we had of Hyperion Heights - Henry should have observed people moving out, separated people crying, etc.  That would have provided some urgency, some desperation.  Lucy could have been trying to stop this from happening because her best friend from the Enchanted Forest was being evicted, etc.  As it stood, what was the hurry?

Edited October 8, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

It's hard for me to get why HH is such a wonderful neighborhood that people shouldn't want to move out. If it's the whole city or a small town like Storybrooke, then I can understand. But in a big city, there's public transport and cars and...uber, even if you moved away. It's not like HH is in a magical bubble that keeps it hidden. The concepts that worked with Storybrooke fall flat with setting the story in a Real World setting like Seattle.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Rumsy4

[tennisgurl]

I think the only real feeling I had was when Rogers/Hook was looking at the picture of Emma with a contemplative expression. If nothing else, seeing Colin playing a new character might be fun, even if him being a cop isn't exactly what I wanted when I used to ponder on what Hooks curse persona would be like. I always pictured him running a bait shop or doing some attached to the ocean. 

[Camera One]

That police station looks so small, with a single hallway.  Are we supposed to believe Sad Rogers had never met Detective Creeper before?  

The best way to find a stolen car is to "pound the pavement"?  Uh, is this 1915?  Even Storybrooke had patrol cars.

Nothing about Hyperion Heights screams "big city neighborhood" except for the establishing shots of Seattle.

I would say Henry's apartment is neater than Jacinda/Lucy's apartment, so the "this place is a dump" comment is even more ridiculous.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

As if age differences couldn't get weirder, Roni is both Lucy's step-great-great grandmother and her grandmother. Rogers is her step grandfather, and also her great-grandmother's lover. Weaver is her great-grandfather, which isn't too bad, but Gideon is her great-uncle. This show has gone through six generations of characters. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

"this place is a dump" comment is even more ridiculous

It sounds so elitist, and doesn't make Lucy endearing. It makes her sound "snarky" like her grandmother Regina. I guess some things are inherited even without the DNA. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Since Henry now thinks that Storybrooke is a fictional place, where does he think he was raised and by whom? (A mundane version of) Regina? Emma? Both? Parents made up by the curse?

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

It sounds so elitist, and doesn't make Lucy endearing.

It's weird because based on her fake background, she shouldn't be elitist.  What would she say about Mr. Cluck's?  This is supposedly a kid who hangs out at an abandoned community garden.  

She also doesn't go to school.  Another thing she inherited from her father.

[scenicbyway]

So I watched it.  (I still can't bring myself to watch last year's finale).

 

I thought it was fine.  It felt like a new show and I wonder if a reboot like this would've been more successful 5 years from now when a new audience might've engaged?

 

Lucy calling Henry's place a dump was odd considering where she lives with her mother?

 

I found Alice just weird neither interesting or scary?  I guess another Jefferson?

 

Hook as an earnest cop is precious but honestly I've been watching the show for the last 5 years because of the Hook/Emma storyline.  So Hook without Emma?  No thanks.

 

Rumple plays himself?  Regina is just "Regina in the city" without the baggage of Snow, which I actually liked.

 

As for the new characters...I can't stand Cinderella, the ridiculous dress, ditching Henry and her whiny HH self.  There is no chemistry with Henry.  She just seems like a brat.

 

I also found Gabrielle Anwar unwatchable.  With villians of the past they've always had a spark or twinkle in their eye.  She was just a dud, no excitement behind her role.

[Camera One]

14 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

I also found Gabrielle Anwar unwatchable.  With villians of the past they've always had a spark or twinkle in their eye.  She was just a dud, no excitement behind her role.

I know she's supposed to be really good but I haven't seen her in anything before, and I agree she was very shaky and bland.  It seems like she didn't have a good handle on the lines or maybe the lines were just too poorly written.  She just seemed to be pursing her lips the whole time.  It's almost laughable how at the office, the assistant was telling everyone not to maintain eye contact with her, yet she personally goes to individual business owners to get contracts signed and actually walks into the police station instead of placing a discreet call.  If the pub was being converted to a juice bar the next day, why would Roni still be serving drinks?  Shouldn't she have been packing?  There's just way too much that makes zero sense and not in the intriguing way.  I mean, the viewer saying "What the hell?" every 5 minutes isn't always a good thing, A&E.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Camera One

[txhorns79]

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Lucy calling Henry's place a dump was odd considering where she lives with her mother?

I thought her comment was so odd.  Does she similarly think her mother lives in a dump?   

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I also found Gabrielle Anwar unwatchable.  With villians of the past they've always had a spark or twinkle in their eye.  She was just a dud, no excitement behind her role.

I didn't understand why they made her up so harshly.  Those drawn on eyebrows are terrible.   

Edited October 8, 2017 by txhorns79

[KingOfHearts]

Victoria is just kind of there. Even the Black Fairy, as badly written as she was, had some energy and fun. When Tremaine shouted that Murderella killed the prince, she didn't even seem panicked or shocked. She called them, cold-faced. Her intimidation speech to Henry was a far cry from Regina's to Emma in the pilot. The Devil Wears Prada scene was so canned and didn't make her the evil pantsuit the writers were hoping for. 

If she had a "not worth my time" non-reaction to everything, that might be entertaining. I actually liked her line, "Surprise". It was so devoid of giving any flip. Sadly, I think she's just going to be evil-sorceress-with cleavage-and-sob-story #48.

[tessaray]

Not to defend Lucy saying that Henry's apartment was a dump but I was thinking that she was probably raised more or less in Victoria's home (or else why would VB want them back so desperately?) and compared to that, it likely is.  

I did like Lucy in some scenes but there's a really fine line between sassy/spunky and flat out obnoxious.       

[Camera One]

She seemed to be raised in some sort of cave according to the Season 6 finale.  If anywhere was a dump, that was probably it. 

I guess we'll find out to what extent she has Curse memories.  One would think she hated living in Victoria's house.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Camera One

[jmonique]

Well. This is pretty dreadful.

And by "dreadful," I mean "doubt I'll watch it even just to kill time on a Friday dreadful." Every minute of this was forced beyond belief.

And if this is happening now, when the heck were the first six seasons set in? Pre-2000?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

31 minutes ago, jmonique said:

And if this is happening now, when the heck were the first six seasons set in? Pre-2000?

No, early 2010s. According to a showrunner interview I saw a week or two ago, time moved faster in the New Enchanted Forest.

[Love]

So I'm really confused.  I know it's an alt universe but is this Cinderella supposed to be the same character as the previous?   Not that it matters but she would have been about 10 years older than Henry.  Then no mention of her first child?  Or maybe she doesn't exist in this universe??  I must have missed something along the way.  

[Camera One]

6 minutes ago, Love said:

So I'm really confused.  I know it's an alt universe but is this Cinderella supposed to be the same character as the previous?   Not that it matters but she would have been about 10 years older than Henry.  Then no mention of her first child?  Or maybe she doesn't exist in this universe??  I must have missed something along the way.  

It's not the same Cinderella.  It's a Cinderella from a different Realm that we've never seen before, a different realm with a different Cinderella, a different Alice, etc, who are completely different people.  So it's not an alternate universe per se.  The Henry we know and "love" grew up, jumped into a portal and somehow went to this other random realm.  Apparently, there are endless Realms out there, each with their own Cinderella, Snow White, etc.  Does that make sense?  It's rather difficult to explain.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

20 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Before Snow was a bandit who knocked Charming out, we had known for her two episodes already. We saw them happily married, going to great lengths to save each other. In the present, Mary Margaret was a sweet schoolteacher paying for her own rent. She even bailed Emma out of jail. When Bandit Snow comes in, you know that she either had a change of heart or deep inside she wasn't an assailant. There's cohesion between her real identity and cursed self. The same might be true of Murderella, but not in a likable way.

I've been trying to think of whether I would have liked Snow if "Snow Falls" had been her introduction. Maybe not as much, but I think there are some key differences from Murderella. For one thing, what we saw of Snow was an extension of the Snow White story that we already know -- she was kicked out of her home by the Evil Queen, so she had to have been desperate, and she was mostly attacking the Queen's coaches, so she was essentially stealing back her own stuff that was stolen from her. She was planning to kill the Evil Queen we know from the fairy tale had already tried to kill her. With Murderella, it's a contrast with what we already know -- she's out to kill the prince that we expect her to be falling in love with. We haven't seen anything of the prince to know whether or not she's justified, and we're picturing the prince we know as a good guy. Then there's the fact that Snow was defending herself against Charming when she hit him, and in the rest of the episode he went on to save her, and then she saved him, sacrificing her revenge murder plan in order to save him. Murderella, in contrast, attacked someone who was trying to help her, and although she didn't go through with killing the prince, she didn't do anything good to win us over. She also didn't do anything good in the present-day story. She was kind of a bitch throughout. So, I think Snow would still have been more likeable if we'd met her in "Snow Falls," but there was the additional advantage of having seen her and Charming being good together, seeing them being good to Cinderella, and seeing everything Regina had done to them before we knew Snow was going to try to kill her.

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

We should have seen Victoria evicting tenants.  We should have seen people we recognize as being friends/families in fairy tales being driven apart and leaving Hyperion Heights.  This should have been the first glimpse that we had of Hyperion Heights - Henry should have observed people moving out, separated people crying, etc.  That would have provided some urgency, some desperation.  Lucy could have been trying to stop this from happening because her best friend from the Enchanted Forest was being evicted, etc.  As it stood, what was the hurry?

Yeah, we don't know how Lucy figured things out, and why now? In season one, Emma's birthday was part of the prophecy. That's why it was important that she come to town then. But there's no reason why Lucy would have sought out Henry right at this time. We also don't know who in Hyperion Heights is a fairy tale character. I don't think we saw any of the extras (what few there were) in the fairy tale world. We saw nothing of the gentrification. The only thing we knew was happening was Roni selling her bar, and she acted rather "yeah, whatever" about that, so it didn't seem like a tragedy.

I'm working on my "there, I fixed it" version. The fixes are ridiculously easy, especially if you're cribbing from season one.

[txhorns79]

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Apparently, there are endless Realms out there, each with their own Cinderella, Snow White, etc.  Does that make sense?  It's rather difficult to explain.

I think that's a good explanation.  I actually am fine with the idea that there are a lot of different variations of the fairytale characters out there, and it's an interesting way to revisit some of the old stories.  As an aside, when I was young in the 80s, one of the networks ran the Chinese(?) version of Cinderella, with the talking magical fish, as part of their Saturday morning cartoons.  It was fascinating to see a completely different version of the same story.     

Edited October 9, 2017 by txhorns79

[KingOfHearts]

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and seeing everything Regina had done to them before we knew Snow was going to try to kill her.

And when Snow was going to kill her, she had forgotten Charming's existence due to a potion. It wasn't just some blind vengeance quest tethered to her character's natural state.

[Camera One]

29 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

As an aside, when I was young in the 80s, one of the networks ran the Japanese(?) version of Cinderella, with the talking magical fish, as part of their Saturday morning cartoons.  It was fascinating to see a completely different version of the same story.     

That would be interesting.  It's a shame this show has no interest in actually and truly exploring different versions.  

[Shanna Marie]

26 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

And when Snow was going to kill her, she had forgotten Charming's existence due to a potion. It wasn't just some blind vengeance quest tethered to her character's natural state.

I was thinking about her dark fairy dust plan in "Snow Falls," where she planned to use the dust to turn Regina into a bug and squash her, but she ended up using it on the trolls to save Charming. Even if that had been the first episode, it fits with what we know of the Snow White story, that the Evil Queen had sent a huntsman to kill her and had driven her out of her own home, so killing the person who took over her kingdom didn't seem like such a terrible thing. But by then we'd also seen the aftermath of the apple scheme, had seen Regina interrupt the wedding with threats, had seen the curse hit and Snow separated from her baby. We didn't have a lot of sympathy for Regina. And then Snow didn't go through with it because she chose to save a life instead. But by season seven, all they bothered to do was tell us the prince was bad, and I guess that made it okay for Murderella to want to kill him, except then maybe he wasn't so bad and it was all a scheme by Lady Tremaine? We're getting into Regina territory here, where her (step) mother was the real evil, and she knew her (step) mother was evil and had abused her, and yet she focuses her revenge on someone else.

So, my "fixed" version, trying to keep more or less the same story but doing it better: Since it looks like the invading someone else's story thing might be an issue, I guess we'll keep Henry's motivations for leaving home. But our flashbacks would be entirely different. We start with a POV shot, seeing through the eyes of someone moving through a town. We see that he's following a woman wearing a cloak with a hood. At moments, we see that under the cloak she's barefoot and wearing a tattered blue ballgown. She seems aware she's being followed, and is nervous. She leads her follower into an alley and seems ready to fight when she turns to look and sees him holding out a glass slipper. "You dropped your shoe," he says. She pats the pocket of her cloak, finding her remaining shoe. Then we see that it's Henry. In other flashbacks, we see him helping her escape, with the help of various people we also see in Hyperion Heights -- we see enough of these people to recognize their cursed selves. Henry and Cinderella help each other out of some fixes as they get to his motorbike and flee.

In the present, let's go with the nanny to Victoria's adopted daughter idea. We see Jacinda looking at the epic to-do list Victoria left for her, but she's barely started on her chores when she gets a call from the school that Lucy isn't there. Jacinda starts to protest that she dropped her off, but stops herself and says she has an appointment and she'll be in school later. Then she goes out frantically searching for Lucy, ending up at the police station, where the cops just laugh about a kid ditching school until Officer Rogers offers to help. As they search the neighborhood together, we see people moving out of apartment buildings with "soon to be a new luxury development from Belfry Enterprises" signs in front. Rogers talks to various people in the neighborhood -- people we recognize from the flashbacks. While they search, Jacinda tells Rogers about how Lucy has recently got it into her head that Jacinda is her real mother and that they're under a curse. She read a book and has become obsessed with this idea, when it's just a fantasy. Jacinda wonders if it has to do with Lucy being adopted and wanting to know about her birth parents. They find Lucy, and Jacinda takes the book away from her, giving it to Rogers, who gets pensive when he flips through it and sees one of the illustrations.

Meanwhile, after getting rid of Lucy, Henry gets a not!Uber pickup call at Roni's bar, but no one's there other than Alice, who doesn't want a ride. He goes inside to look for the rider, but the bar's deserted. She invites him to the blowout going-out-of-business party she's having that night. I guess he needs something else to do, so maybe his car still gets stolen, and Rogers helps him find it, but without the weirdness of him having to rat out Jacinda to get Victoria to help (why would she have his car? Would she want him getting involved? So why would she have done anything to keep him around the neighborhood? But if she didn't do it, then why would she be able to find it when the police couldn't?). Jacinda takes Lucy to school and hangs out at the coffee shop across the street, where she chats with Tiana, her one friend, since waiting for Lucy at school is her only chance at a social life. They talk about how many businesses are having to close, and Tiana's worried that this one will close, too. She has hopes of opening her own place, but rents are really going up in this neighborhood, and her savings won't be enough. She mentions the party at Roni's and invites Jacinda, even offering to lend her something to wear. Jacinda refuses, saying she can't get away, but while they've been talking about the party, Lucy has come in and heard it all. She says they'll find a way for Jacinda to go. But when Victoria gets home, she notices that the chores haven't been done. Jacinda has to get busy and can't go out. Lucy pitches in once Victoria is off in her home office, and Tiana shows up and helps out, then gets Jacinda all dressed up, and they sneak out. At the party, Jacinda and Henry meet and hit it off. We also see other characters we recognize from the flashbacks, and the cops are all there, celebrating Rogers' promotion. As midnight draws near, Roni says something about Victoria coming with the papers, and Jacinda panics and flees out the bathroom window. She leaves something behind (a handbag? bracelet?) that Henry picks up. Rogers notices and comments about it being bad luck to lose a lovely lady like that. He offers to help find her -- since he knows who she is, after helping her find a missing child. Henry puts two and two together and figures that this is the woman Lucy thinks is Cinderella. Victoria shows up at the bar and Roni gives her rousing speech of defiance, after which the party goes on.

[StaceyNotStacie]

I have to admit that when I saw Alice with the flannel at the beginning of the episode, I thought she might have been a SORASed Captain Swan daughter. 

I'm not hating this. I'm willing to see it through as to where they are going with the story.  If this lasts long term (longer than the fall season), I hope the stepmother is a temporary character. She was the only thing I didn't care for. 

[Scarlett45]

I stopped watching mid season 6 because I just didn't care that much. I decided to give the reboot a try because "why not". Let's see if I stick around. The little girl that plays Lucy is a good actor (better than Jared Gilmore was at that age), but I'm not swept up in the magic the way I was with season one. 

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think that's a good explanation.  I actually am fine with the idea that there are a lot of different variations of the fairytale characters out there, and it's an interesting way to revisit some of the old stories.  As an aside, when I was young in the 80s, one of the networks ran the Chinese(?) version of Cinderella, with the talking magical fish, as part of their Saturday morning cartoons.  It was fascinating to see a completely different version of the same story.     

I like the idea of seeing different takes on fairy tale characters, that's kind of why I liked this show. But we were always told, OUAT was showing the "real" story behind all those different stories we've seen. So now they are saying there is a real version of the character from each story that's out there?

It seems like they just wanted to push a reset button so they didn't have to think about what they've done in previous seasons.

[UGAmp]

Ehhhh. I was pretty ready for OUAT to be done and was watching it more out of habit as opposed to really being invested. I might give this a couple of episodes and see if it works its magic (no pun intended) like the first couple of seasons of the original did. 

Adult Henry was... not the worst. I do not care for Cinderella so if she’s the lead that does not bode well for me. She doesn’t seem like a good actress and they seem to be a mismatched pair. She even looks several years older than him but maybe my brain is still trained to picture Jared Gilmore. 

I never watched Burn Notice so I only know Gabrielle Anwar from the movie Wild Hearts Can’t Be Broken. My sister and I watched that movie on repeat after our mom recorded it on vhs for us. It also starred Michael Schoeffling from Sixteen Candles. It was the best! 

I noticed the nod to Hook’s, uh, hook in the scene where he had the storybook and saw Emma’s picture. He had a black glove on his hook hand and his other hand was bare. He seemed to show the most potential for recognition of his past. We’ll see!

[madfortv]

I'm a new viewer and I didn't care much for the show. I'll probably give it another chance and watch this week.  Roni and the policeman  Hook who was helping find the car were likeable.  The actress playing Cinderella puzzled me. I did not like the character and was bored anytime she was on the screen. It wasn't clear why that actress was selected to be Cinderella.  Lucy and Henry were just OK. Maybe it was their dialogue or the jumping back and forth between the past and the present but nothing really engaged me as a viewer or made me care about the characters.

With the hype for the show, I watched a few clips from the old show.  Maybe those were the best moments, but I found the old show and characters much more appealing and engaging. It is one of the reasons I watched the premiere for season 7.  I had been thinking I might have missed out by not watching the old show. Nah, maybe not.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I am SO late getting to comment here.  I actually watched the ep Saturday.  'Cause, believe it not, I have better things to do on my Friday evenings than to sit at home and watch this show.  ;)  Anyway, I have been thinking of what I wanted to say.  If anything.  And that's just it.  I can't really think of anything I really wanted to say.  The episode was meh.  Even Hook couldn't really bring it up.  I remember reading an early review that called his cursed persona very DeckHand Hook, and I think that was pretty accurate.  I liked DeckHandHook for that one episode, but if I have to watch it all season - I just don't think I can.  

Well, I am off to read the comments now.  I'm sure there are much better ones than mine, and I'm hoping to find some good snark, because this show just begs for it!

[Shanna Marie]

So, does Weaver/Rumple know who he really is, or is he fully under the curse? If he knows who he really is, then why is he still here instead of heading to Maine to be with his family and be in a place where he has magical powers? What would be in it for him to be a corrupt cop in Seattle that would be better than being with his wife and son and being the Dark One?

Which brings up the question of how long they're going to keep the memory part of this curse in place. With Storybrooke, they were trapped there much of the time, and it was a place where they were at least with all their friends and family. But they're trying to get people out of Hyperion Heights, so it doesn't seem like they're trapped there. If they had their memories, Rumple and Hook would be right out of there and heading to Storybrooke to be with their wives. Regina might hang around wherever Henry was, but if Henry is stuck in this world, why would he want to stay in Seattle? Why not take his wife and child to Storybrooke, where he can at least be around his parents and grandparents, and where the odds of finding/creating a portal to Cinderella's world would be a lot better (and why would she want to go back there where she has no family rather than be where her daughter would be surrounded by family)? So if they break the memory curse, they'll need to come up with a good reason why most of the main characters are hanging around in Seattle rather than heading to Storybrooke.

[Camera One]

32 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

So if they break the memory curse, they'll need to come up with a good reason why most of the main characters are hanging around in Seattle rather than heading to Storybrooke.

It's really tough to leave a tight-knit community like Hyperion Heights.  They've been through so much together.