These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[ILoveReading]

So the other reviewer just posted, an basically she said,

One Dean line made her laugh out loud

That wasn't how she pictured Adam returning.

Something happens that pleasantly surprised her.

She a loved a couple of Dean's moments. 

The two people I consider press seemed very reserved vs the "fan press' that gushed over it. 

[gonzosgirrl]

On 12/11/2019 at 9:51 PM, ILoveReading said:

 

This person is a big Cas fan so it sounds like Dean resumes his role as the family doormat.

Did something get cut from the episode ahead saw? Because I didn't see any thawing of Dean's disdain or any apology from Cas. I mean, he healed Dean's hand, so, yay? I can't imagine what was gasp-worthy in this episode,  either.

[Myrelle]

Cas healing Dean's hand was probably like sex to them. 

[Castiels Cat]

19 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Did something get cut from the episode ahead saw? Because I didn't see any thawing of Dean's disdain or any apology from Cas. I mean, he healed Dean's hand, so, yay? I can't imagine what was gasp-worthy in this episode,  either.

Errr... it wasn't quite as bad as before. They weren't obviously avoiding each other... it was almost as if Rowena's dialogue was the token palm rub to keep the storyline going.

[juppschmitz]

8 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

So the other reviewer just posted, an basically she said,

One Dean line made her laugh out loud

That wasn't how she pictured Adam returning.

Something happens that pleasantly surprised her.

She a loved a couple of Dean's moments. 

The two people I consider press seemed very reserved vs the "fan press' that gushed over it. 

Which are the "press" ones?

[Castiels Cat]

Speculation about Amara after midseason finale:

The flashback Cas gave Michael does not give any reason to suspect Amara corrupted Chuck imo.

Chuck's behavior on other worlds is consistent with what we are seeing now,  per AU Michael especially, and consistent with Amara's perspective as the wronged victim of Chuck's villainy. The Darkness and the Light are metaphysical concepts that many religions have. As other posters have noted, both are required for the universe to go on. She also healed him. She was extremely clear in her mission that she was trying to get his attention because she was angry. She had been wronged by him and it was righteous anger. Chuck admitted it. Metatron tacitly admitted this too. It's safe to assume that everything we were told by male characters about her was a lie, alternative truths, Propaganda. It was a feminist storyline, prescient of ME TOO.

Did she every lie? I assume she will be pivotal later in the season and will be forced to choose between Team Dean and Chuck

[Bali]

Here is my Bitter Speculation: Rowena told Sam, Dean and Cas that Michael and Adam weren't in the cage because ALL doors were flung open. So, does that mean Lucifer's was also? Or is Lucifer in the empty now and not in Hell somewhere? I REALLY do NOT want Lucifer back. So, please tell me he's in the empty.

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

Speculation about Amara after midseason finale:

The flashback Cas gave Michael does not give any reason to suspect Amara corrupted Chuck imo.

Chuck's behavior on other worlds is consistent with what we are seeing now,  per AU Michael especially, and consistent with Amara's perspective as the wronged victim of Chuck's villainy. The Darkness and the Light are metaphysical concepts that many religions have. As other posters have noted, both are required for the universe to go on. She also healed him. She was extremely clear in her mission that she was trying to get his attention because she was angry. She had been wronged by him and it was righteous anger. Chuck admitted it. Metatron tacitly admitted this too. It's safe to assume that everything we were told by male characters about her was a lie, alternative truths, Propaganda. It was a feminist storyline, prescient of ME TOO.

Did she every lie? I assume she will be pivotal later in the season and will be forced to choose between Team Dean and Chuck

What if Amara is a duality? Both Darkness and the Light and we really only need her? Then they can kill Chuckless. I know they'll never go that route, but it would be interesting. 

[ILoveReading]

The more I think about it, the more I don't want Benny back next ep since its a Berens ep.

I wouldn't put it past him to have Benny betray Dean. so that Dean can have an 'ephinany" that Cas is the one who has been there for him. 

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, Bali said:

So, please tell me he's in the empty.

He's in the Empty.

Not that that matters one little bit if when they want to bring him back.

[Aeryn13]

I doubt Benny will be back. He is a Dean-character. I also doubt the Purgatory stuff will get much play. It's probably a lot of Chuck bla-bla-ing his bad writing at Sam. Hopefully to be capped off with him undoing their connection and muhaha-ing into the sunset.

[gonzosgirrl]

34 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I doubt Benny will be back. He is a Dean-character. I also doubt the Purgatory stuff will get much play. It's probably a lot of Chuck bla-bla-ing his bad writing at Sam. Hopefully to be capped off with him undoing their connection and muhaha-ing into the sunset.

When Jensen got Ty to do the cameo in his episode, they mentioned that he was busy with other projects, so given that and, as you said, his place in the series, I don't think we'll get an appearance. In fact, I won't be surprised if some monster tells him how Benny died ugly after Dean sent him back there. They rarely miss an opportunity to heap guilt on Dean's shoulders, deserved or not. I got excited about the possibility for a hot minute last night, and then I remembered that this is Dabbernatural, and I don't want them anywhere near Benny.

[Aeryn13]

I`m not sure we`re gonna see the trip to Purgatory even. From the promo, I couldn`t tell if it was gonna be in it or just Chuck/Sam and Chuck`s sepia-tinted stories.   

I read that Misha isn`t in episode 9 so how would that go? Offscreen? 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Aeryn13

[Bobcatkitten]

17 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

When Jensen got Ty to do the cameo in his episode, they mentioned that he was busy with other projects, so given that and, as you said, his place in the series, I don't think we'll get an appearance. In fact, I won't be surprised if some monster tells him how Benny died ugly after Dean sent him back there. They rarely miss an opportunity to heap guilt on Dean's shoulders, deserved or not. I got excited about the possibility for a hot minute last night, and then I remembered that this is Dabbernatural, and I don't want them anywhere near Benny.

Knowing now that they are going to purgatory it makes no sense they brought Ty back for that blink-and-you-miss-it cameo. It would have made perfect sense to see Benny in Purgatory.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Knowing now that they are going to purgatory it makes no sense they brought Ty back for that blink-and-you-miss-it cameo. It would have made perfect sense to see Benny in Purgatory.

It could work if that was a vision of the future, and Dean brings Benny back from Purgatory to help with the fight against Chuck and it goes badly and it ends up with a version of that Atomic Monsters scene. Fat chance, but maybe?

[Bali]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

He's in the Empty.

Not that that matters one little bit if when they want to bring him back.

Thank you. I know it doesn't make a difference and TPTB are in love with Nickafer. But I never saw that as anything other than annoying. Lucifer should have been the scariest thing on this show, not comic relief.

[Aeryn13]

14 minutes ago, Bali said:

Thank you. I know it doesn't make a difference and TPTB are in love with Nickafer. But I never saw that as anything other than annoying. Lucifer should have been the scariest thing on this show, not comic relief.

In that very first episode where he wasn`t even seen but was "courting" Nick as a vessel, playing mind games with a man who had lost his wife and child, he was an otherworldly, terrifying and cruel presence. They never got back to that place. 

[ILoveReading]

From @Myrelle in the Supernatural Ending thread.

Quote

I'm feeling a Dean Dying type of vibe from the show right now.

Not sure why, but it feels like it felt in S3 to me.

I'm  actually ok with Dean Dying as long as he goes out heroically.

This is the feeling I get right now too.  Dean just seems to tired and worn out right now.  It seems death is the only way he can truly rest. 

I think a lot will depend on whether Eileen survives the next ep.  (Please let her I can't deal with more mopey Sam).   If she dies than I'm convinced Sam will sacrifce himself and Dean will end up running a bar and Lisa will walk in in the end. 

If she survives the next ep (and the season) then I lean toward Sam getting his happy hending.   And Dean dying. 

But I keep coming back to Jensen not liking it.  I can see him disliking a domestic ending.  We know how he felt about the domestic Dean story.  With regards to Dean dying, I can see him not liking it if he dies and Sam and Cas live.  Not only does he lose his imaginary best friend but Dean would be the only one not getting that happy ending. 

I just anyone but Berens was writing the next ep.  He's my least favorite writer.  I have multiple worries

1. This is the ep where Dean prays to Cas.  If he's in purgatory I worry they will bring back Benny and have him betray Dean so Dean can have an "epiphany" that Cas is the one who is always there for him, whether its true or not.

2. That Dean doesn't actually make it into purgatory.  That is just a hallucination God shows Sam.   That the whole ep is Dean preparing and Cas saying hey shouldn't do this and then Sam calling at the end and saying don't do it.  Then Dean praying to thank Cas.

3. That this is a set up by Michael and God.  That the spell is actually what allows God to break apart the connection between him and Sam.  That makes Dean look bad for trusting Michael. 

4.  That Eileen dies.  No Just No for the above reason.   She's with Sam, and God has to deal with her and get her out of the way so he can show Sam his endings. 

5. Why are we only seeing Sam's possible ending?  (Unless purgatory is a vision, which i hope not.).

I looked at the trailer in slow motion, some observations

*Chuck's watch says April 17, 2020.  So I'm guessing the series finale date changed since this aired.

*At about 4 seconds in, Dean looks to be standing in purgatory with Cas and one other person.  Benny?  I'd honestly rather he not show up, especially since this is a Berens ep.  Or it could be Bobby since it looks like a truckers cap.

*6 seconds looks like an unconscious Dean.

*7 seconds.  Dean by himself saying there are monsters every where.

*7-8 seconds.  Someone being thrown out a window and Dean being set on fire.

*9 seconds what very much looks like a dead Eileen.  (Please let this be a vision)  This is followed by Sam kissing Eileen.

12 seconds.  Bobby killing Sam.

[Castiels Cat]

39 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

From @Myrelle in the Supernatural Ending thread.

This is the feeling I get right now too.  Dean just seems to tired and worn out right now.  It seems death is the only way he can truly rest. 

I think a lot will depend on whether Eileen survives the next ep.  (Please let her I can't deal with more mopey Sam).   If she dies than I'm convinced Sam will sacrifce himself and Dean will end up running a bar and Lisa will walk in in the end. 

If she survives the next ep (and the season) then I lean toward Sam getting his happy hending.   And Dean dying. 

But I keep coming back to Jensen not liking it.  I can see him disliking a domestic ending.  We know how he felt about the domestic Dean story.  With regards to Dean dying, I can see him not liking it if he dies and Sam and Cas live.  Not only does he lose his imaginary best friend but Dean would be the only one not getting that happy ending. 

I just anyone but Berens was writing the next ep.  He's my least favorite writer.  I have multiple worries

1. This is the ep where Dean prays to Cas.  If he's in purgatory I worry they will bring back Benny and have him betray Dean so Dean can have an "epiphany" that Cas is the one who is always there for him, whether its true or not.

2. That Dean doesn't actually make it into purgatory.  That is just a hallucination God shows Sam.   That the whole ep is Dean preparing and Cas saying hey shouldn't do this and then Sam calling at the end and saying don't do it.  Then Dean praying to thank Cas.

3. That this is a set up by Michael and God.  That the spell is actually what allows God to break apart the connection between him and Sam.  That makes Dean look bad for trusting Michael. 

4.  That Eileen dies.  No Just No for the above reason.   She's with Sam, and God has to deal with her and get her out of the way so he can show Sam his endings. 

5. Why are we only seeing Sam's possible ending?  (Unless purgatory is a vision, which i hope not.).

I looked at the trailer in slow motion, some observations

*Chuck's watch says April 17, 2020.  So I'm guessing the series finale date changed since this aired.

*At about 4 seconds in, Dean looks to be standing in purgatory with Cas and one other person.  Benny?  I'd honestly rather he not show up, especially since this is a Berens ep.  Or it could be Bobby since it looks like a truckers cap.

*6 seconds looks like an unconscious Dean.

*7 seconds.  Dean by himself saying there are monsters every where.

*7-8 seconds.  Someone being thrown out a window and Dean being set on fire.

*9 seconds what very much looks like a dead Eileen.  (Please let this be a vision)  This is followed by Sam kissing Eileen.

12 seconds.  Bobby killing Sam.

I assume Chuck means his as in my endings... all the possible endings that he has written up until this point.

There is no reason to think Michael would betray them. Adam trusts their opinion and Michael believed what Cas showed him. Cas showed him enough history to convey the truth of it. The other worlds clearly floored him as well as the fact that God just left him in the Cage during a 11 when he was back. Even Amara was out. There is no reason for Michael to side with Chuck unless he wanted to be in deep undercover.

He is showing Sam because Sam is the only one that can see them.

Benny always wore a fisherman's cap. Benny would never betray Dean and Dean knows that. The Werther Box written by Berens showed us that Benny was the one most trusted by Dean. Dean better resurrect him. 

These writer's are corrupted by the nepotism duo. However I think there are some logical conclusions.

1. Lock Chuck up. Someone takes the Mark. If Sam is still attached Sam goes too and if not he doesn't. It sounds like Chuck took Sam to regain his mojo so... Sam may be okay. If Sam is being locked up he may be ideal to take the Mark. Then Sam cannot hurt anyone. IDK.

2. Chuck makes a deal. He backs off for a price. The clock goes back and it is as if the story never happened. We see the alternative future in which the Winchesters never hunted and the brothers were not very close; Sam is a lawyer and Dean is a mechanic. The world goes on.

3. Chuck makes a deal. He backs off and the clock resets to a pivotal moment in which he doesn't help because they don't want him pulling strings. Most likely Sam is dead because this is about Dean suffering for Chuck. Or he pulls a finger snap and we see all of the saves that Dean pulled off with Chuck's help according to Chuck that he's decided to erase.sam is literally dust.

4. Chuck makes a deal. He backs off and the clock resets to a pivotal moment.  John and Mary never met and Sam and Dean are not even brothers. it's that other alternative universe episode except there's not a case so they never bond.  

5. Dean gets his mojo back and assembles a ragtag team of scrappy antiheroes to take on God tooth and nail. Dean strategizes an out of the box strategy plus plan B. This is usually how finales go.

6. Instead of brother kills brother (Chuck's plan) Dean and Michael team up to give us Son vs. Father (Oedipus). They cannot kill him unless they get creative. Use the Sam connection to transfer his mojo to Sam before killing him and then Amara absorbs the energy from Sam before he explodes. 

7. We get exactly what Chuck wants... SS 2.0 or Demon Dean 2.0 or The End 2.0... but then Chuck gets his as plan B.

On 12/13/2019 at 11:24 AM, Bali said:

Thank you. I know it doesn't make a difference and TPTB are in love with Nickafer. But I never saw that as anything other than annoying. Lucifer should have been the scariest thing on this show, not comic relief.

So was Lilith. So is Jack. So was Cas. If Cas being awoken by Jack was annoying can you imagine how it feels about Lucifer?

Edited December 16, 2019 by Castiels Cat

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Benny always wore a fisherman's cap. Benny would never betray Dean and Dean knows that. The Werther Box written by Berens showed us that Benny was the one most trusted by Dean. Dean better resurrect him. 

Berens isn't the same writer.  I could see him writing Benny turning on Dean every easily.

[Castiels Cat]

On 12/13/2019 at 10:46 AM, Aeryn13 said:

I`m not sure we`re gonna see the trip to Purgatory even. From the promo, I couldn`t tell if it was gonna be in it or just Chuck/Sam and Chuck`s sepia-tinted stories.   

I read that Misha isn`t in episode 9 so how would that go? Offscreen? 

Easily solved by Cas and Dean landing in different locations because those rifts can have energy surges. Or they immediately got ambushed and Cas ran off to protect Dean because he's a leviathan magnet... that is canon baby.

[Castiels Cat]

16 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Berens isn't the same writer.  I could see him writing Benny turning on Dean every easily.

Oh...  hmmm...supernatural wiki says it was Berens. I think he can't quit Benny either!

He apparently knows Brokeback Purgatory when he sees it! 😻

The best thing in s 8 was their bromance. The second best thing was Dean's Purgatory bamf bravado. The third thing was Dean's quip about about asking himself when is decapitation not my thing. Full quote: "Because, Sam, Kevin's in the wind, okay, you're sulking around like a eunuch in a whorehouse, and I can't help but ask myself, when is decapitation not my thing?"And the 4th best thing about s 8 was Benny and Cas sniping at each other in Purgatory.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Castiels Cat

[gonzosgirrl]

22 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Oh...  hmmm...supernatural wiki says it was Berens. I think he can't quit Benny either!

I think she means Berens isn't the same writer he was then. All that delicious Koolaid, ya know.

[Bobcatkitten]

I don't expect a Benny return. When the episode aired and everyone started talking about it Ty Olsson quote tweeted something and said #available. But obviously it has already been filmed. 

[Castiels Cat]

About the writers tackling pagan gods...

Please no to pagan gods. Aside from their early efforts at lesser known cthonic deities they have really sucked at pagan gods. Do we want them to badly RIP off other shows.

What they did in hammer of the Gods, to Greek gods and to Osiris is appalling. They had a virgin goddess sleeping with her uncle. They turned a gentle loving beneficent god from a religion that has strict dietary laws consume human offal. These things should be carefully considered when constructing storylines and the same respect that the Judeo-Christian religion is given should be given to living religions. 

Mythology which is rich and varied and very well represented on the internet should be utilized.

Just. Say. No.

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think she means Berens isn't the same writer he was then. All that delicious Koolaid, ya know.

I see.  I think Carver and Glass exerted control. Now it's Dabb and Nep Duo in charge.

[Bali]

13 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

About the writers tackling pagan gods...

Please no to pagan gods. Aside from their early efforts at lesser known cthonic deities they have really sucked at pagan gods. Do we want them to badly RIP off other shows.

What they did in hammer of the Gods, to Greek gods and to Osiris is appalling. They had a virgin goddess sleeping with her uncle. They turned a gentle loving beneficent god from a religion that has strict dietary laws consume human offal. These things should be carefully considered when constructing storylines and the same respect that the Judeo-Christian religion is given should be given to living religions. 

Mythology which is rich and varied and very well represented on the internet should be utilized.

Just. Say. No.

I see.  I think Carver and Glass exerted control. Now it's Dabb and Nep Duo in charge.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm pretty sure that making God the root of all evil (and a talentless hack) is not being too respectful to Judeo-Christian beliefs. Especially the talentless hack bit. Have you seen the sun set over the ocean? That took some talent.

[ILoveReading]

I'm trying to decide if Dean even goes into purgatory or its just some stock footage from s8 and one of Sam's visions.

Because I thought I read somewhere that Misha didn't film for episode 9, (but I don't know for sure) and when talking about episodes he's excited for, Jensen mentioned episode 7 and episode 10 was funny.   Its well known he loved the purgatory storyline and wanted more of it, so why wouldn't he mention being excited about ep 9? 

Jensen only mentioned it because he was asked about Dean and Cas.

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I'm trying to decide if Dean even goes into purgatory or its just some stock footage from s8 and one of Sam's visions.

Michael opened the fissure (or whatever), so maybe he picked an appropriate spot?  They get out, say, "hey, here's the flower right here!" and jump back.  Done in 5 minutes. 😖

[gonzosgirrl]

47 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Michael opened the fissure (or whatever), so maybe he picked an appropriate spot?  They get out, say, "hey, here's the flower right here!" and jump back.  Done in 5 minutes. 😖

That's not even enough time for Sam to hit a dog!

Seriously though, if Dean goes to Purgatory without leaving a giant, flashing neon "I'M NOT DEAD, I'M IN PURGATORY" sign, with arrows pointing at the rift (and possibly draw a big red X on the floor just in case they miss the twelve hour window), then I just don't know.

[ahrtee]

17 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

That's not even enough time for Sam to hit a dog!

Seriously though, if Dean goes to Purgatory without leaving a giant, flashing neon "I'M NOT DEAD, I'M IN PURGATORY" sign, with arrows pointing at the rift (and possibly draw a big red X on the floor just in case they miss the twelve hour window), then I just don't know.

OTOH, since they're best buds with the Queen of Hell and there's a back door from Hell into Purgatory (just turn left past Bobby's old cage) can't she just send some of her minions to pick flowers for them?  No need for a 12-hour deadline.  Or a rift.  

[bethy]

19 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

These things should be carefully considered when constructing storylines and the same respect that the Judeo-Christian religion is given should be given to living religions. 

5 hours ago, Bali said:

Maybe it's just me, but I'm pretty sure that making God the root of all evil (and a talentless hack) is not being too respectful to Judeo-Christian beliefs. Especially the talentless hack bit. Have you seen the sun set over the ocean? That took some talent.

Yeah. This show hasn't been respectful of Judeo-Christian beliefs since they made angels "dicks." They are pretty equal-opportunity disrespecters of religion. 

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, bethy said:

Yeah. This show hasn't been respectful of Judeo-Christian beliefs since they made angels "dicks." They are pretty equal-opportunity disrespecters of religion. 

They don't have him eat human offal as shown in Hammer of the Gods. It's one thing to have God and angels as characters and anthropomorphize them with larger than life human qualities. The Greeks did this and Supernatural is borrowing from this tradition. When they are bad they are very very bad ...

However they went off the rails in their depiction of Lord Ganesha who is a gentle and benevolent God that billions worship and who would not be served offerings of flesh. Kali... yeah... she is the Goddess of destruction with a murder cult of worshippers... go wild with her...

And frankly isn't Hinduism the most celebrated religion on the planet. Ganesha and Kali don't need to slaughter humans because there are billions of people in temples praying to them and making offerings to them. That episode was not thought through at all.

AND THEY WROTE A VIRGIN GODDESS AS NOT A VIRGIN AND SLEEPING WITH HER UNCLE WHEN ONE OF HER DEFINING ATTRIBUTES IS "VIRGIN GODDESS".

They don't research or use the research well and creatively.

When they show Chuck start to Hannibalize people... then they have treated Christians with the same disrespect they treated Hindus.

[bethy]

20 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

They don't have him eat human offal as shown in Hammer of the Gods. It's one thing to have God and angels as characters and anthropomorphize them with larger than life human qualities. The Greeks did this and Supernatural is borrowing from this tradition. When they are bad they are very very bad ...

However they went off the rails in their depiction of Lord Ganesha who is a gentle and benevolent God that billions worship and who would not be served offerings of flesh. Kali... yeah... she is the Goddess of destruction with a murder cult of worshippers... go wild with her...

And frankly isn't Hinduism the most celebrated religion on the planet. Ganesha and Kali don't need to slaughter humans because there are billions of people in temples praying to them and making offerings to them. That episode was not thought through at all.

AND THEY WROTE A VIRGIN GODDESS AS NOT A VIRGIN AND SLEEPING WITH HER UNCLE WHEN ONE OF HER DEFINING ATTRIBUTES IS "VIRGIN GODDESS".

They don't research or use the research well and creatively.

When they show Chuck start to Hannibalize people... then they have treated Christians with the same disrespect they treated Hindus.

Your original post seemed to suggest they treat Judeo-Christian religion with some level of respect. I was simply saying they don’t.

[Shannonsspirit]

4 minutes ago, bethy said:

Your original post seemed to suggest they treat Judeo-Christian religion with some level of respect. I was simply saying they don’t.

All beings in Supernatural are given the worst characterizations.

The Darkness is a petty, vindictive irrational "victim" who wanted solitude. Then as Lucifer points out "whines" when she gets it.

God is a petty, bored puppeteer for his own cruel amusement.

The Empty Entity is a petty, vindictive insomniac.

[ILoveReading]

As much as I would hate this, I can see it happening exactly his way.  Sam and Dean given busy work until the finale when Sam has to die so God dies, Jack takes over, eliminates all the Supernatural.  Dean does....stuff, and then retires and opens a bar. 

I can see Jensen disliking that ending. 

[gonzosgirrl]

13 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

As much as I would hate this, I can see it happening exactly his way.  Sam and Dean given busy work until the finale when Sam has to die so God dies, Jack takes over, eliminates all the Supernatural.  Dean does....stuff, and then retires and opens a bar. 

I can see Jensen disliking that ending. 

"redux" 

I hope this woman's head is as far up her ass as it appears to be. Sadly, this is far too Dabb to dismiss out of hand.

 

[Aeryn13]

I'm 50/50 on ot right now but I think there is a chance Chuck does away with the connection he has with Sam in the next episode. Dabb said he would be fully powered again and Rob said it was the first on Chuck's agenda. In the promo he does something to the wound.

It would also track with ep 10 featuring Chuck enjoying his newfound power by writing the brothers as yokels.

Jack is coming back around ep 11 or 12. It would be deeply ironic if Dabb threw even Sam out of his own story to make room for Jack like it happened to Dean last year. Now Dabb does write Sam-stanning eps but when it comes to Jack? I think he picks Jack.

It could still give Sam a leg up in the mytharc in the Finale of course because lol-canon.

[7kstar]

 

5 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

As much as I would hate this, I can see it happening exactly his way.  Sam and Dean given busy work until the finale when Sam has to die so God dies, Jack takes over, eliminates all the Supernatural.  Dean does....stuff, and then retires and opens a bar. 

I can see Jensen disliking that ending.

If this is the ending, well 14 and 15 will be left off my re-watch list.   I would hate it too.

I wonder how much money the show would continue to earn in streaming?

[ILoveReading]

Quote

YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE UNTIL IT’S GONE – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) hit the road to help an old friend, but it appears that their luck may have finally run out and they are the ones who may be in need of rescue. John Showalter directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb (#1510). Original Airdate 1/23/2020.

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-spoilers-the-heroes-journey/201766/

This is the episode I've been dreading. 

I still think the idea that Dean can't change a tire because God gave him that ability, or that Sam has never had a cold because of God wanted to him to be healthy stupid beyond words. 

I hope this is more of a curse rather than a statement that Sam and Dean really were just puppets with no free will, or God protecting them.

 

[DeeDee79]

35 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-spoilers-the-heroes-journey/201766/

This is the episode I've been dreading. 

I still think the idea that Dean can't change a tire because God gave him that ability, or that Sam has never had a cold because of God wanted to him to be healthy stupid beyond words. 

I hope this is more of a curse rather than a statement that Sam and Dean really were just puppets with no free will, or God protecting them.

 

Not surprised that Dabb wrote the episode. 😒

[gonzosgirrl]

7 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

Not surprised that Dabb wrote the episode. 😒

God the showrunner as the ultimate puppet master with control over every aspect of his actors' creations' fates. Yeah, that won't be awful at all.

[Featherhat]

Free will to follow or not, fuck up or not is a very important part of many if not most world religions. Lots of books, movies, tv shows etc have explored that concept. For SPN to now decide it didn't ever even exist at least as far as Sam and Dean are concerned seems some pretty extreme character assassination for them for the sake of what was a very dubious storyline to begin with. 

[ILoveReading]

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-spoilers-the-trap-images-description/201532/

Promo pics for ep 9.

I don't like when Berens writes arguments between the characters because he never paints and accurate picture.

[Aeryn13]

Bringing this over from Unpopular Opinions:

Quote

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-spoilers-the-trap-images-description/201532/

Promo pics for 9.  Ugh.  I don't like Berens when he writers arguments between the characters because he never presents an accurate picture.

I have serious doubts about Eileen surviving this ep.

Yuck. An argument between Dean and Sam in a Berens ep? I know how that one is gonna go.

Going by the pics: 

Scenario A) Chuck shows Sam Purgatory with Dean and Cas in it and how they are in trouble to get Sam to agree to somehow undo the whatever-bond they have. He then takes Sam to the bunker to gloat and Dean gets angry. 

Scenario B) Dean and Cas somehow show up to that casino set and Chuck threatens Sam so Dean agrees to do something-something. And Sam is angry at Dean throwing away their best option. That would not track too well with the pic of Chuck and Sam at the bunker and what could Dean do really that Chuck can`t do? At least Sam having to agree to some ritual makes a tiny amount of sense.  

Either way, I do believe Purgatory will be a short side quest that doesn`t amount to much. 

IF it is in the ballpark of scenario A) somewhere, it would kinda track a bit more with Dean dying at the end. 

Also, yes, Eileen might be a goner here. I figured she would just leave. Or maybe Chuck sends her to the same "I didn`t kill them" place as he did Becky and family.  

[ILoveReading]

8 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Scenario A) Chuck shows Sam Purgatory with Dean and Cas in it and how they are in trouble to get Sam to agree to somehow undo the whatever-bond they have. He then takes Sam to the bunker to gloat and Dean gets angry. 

Misha posted a pic of him and Shoshanna on the casino set so either Cas features in one of Sam's visions someone how Dean finds about about Sam and sends Cas to save the day. 

https://www.thetvaddict.com/2020/01/08/supernatural-photos-s15e09-the-trap/

Sam pics but this says that Sam is in an AU.  So maybe all the bunker stuff is AU.

If Eileen dies than my guess is that Sam will be the one dying at the end of the series.

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

Misha posted a pic of him and Shoshanna on the casino set so either Cas features in one of Sam's visions someone how Dean finds about about Sam and sends Cas to save the day. 

 

Certainly possible. Maybe that`s "the prayer" scene. Cas somehow makes it to that casino set - not that he should be any help against Chuck - but Sam tells him to save Eileen and he does. And Dean is angry that Sam "stayed behind". No good scenario here.

 

[ILoveReading]

So it does seem Eileen survives this episode.   She posted this on December 5.

According to Jason Fischer's quote of the day board they were filming ep 12.

[Aeryn13]

Okay, if she survives ep 9 AND stays around, I upgrade the chances of her being a valid endgame for Sam by 90 %. And them having a kid that they name "Dean". And the chances of Dean dying also considerably. 

I wonder if they will actually have the balls to flat-out steal the final scene from Vampire Diaries. I mean, would they really think that noone would notice that?  

[ILoveReading]

33 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I wonder if they will actually have the balls to flat-out steal the final scene from Vampire Diaries. I mean, would they really think that noone would notice that? 

I've always felt we were watching the last ep of SPN when that aired.

[Smad]

5 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Sam pics but this says that Sam is in an AU.  So maybe all the bunker stuff is AU.

Except if the bunker stuff is AU, how did Chuck get there? We know from episode 2 that he can't leave SPN-prime (as Amara said, he can't leave this world).

[ILoveReading]

7 minutes ago, Smad said:

Except if the bunker stuff is AU, how did Chuck get there? We know from episode 2 that he can't leave SPN-prime (as Amara said, he can't leave this world).

Sorry, that should have been Sam's vision of an AU not an AU itself.

Not that it it matters if something couldn't be done before.