S02.E01: A Father's Advice

[Wings]

Have they always had a dog or is he new?  

[HeyThere83]

I think it's the fact that they show this and then show them married in a "twist" ending. The kids act weird towards him and they go the whole season without showing how they got together. I mean.....I really wonder what they thought people would conclude from that.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, dcubed said:

I'm quoting you but this isn't specifically to just you but to all  that think that Miguel crushed on Rebecca.  I didn't see that at all.  I saw him crush on their marriage.  I saw him crush on what they had.  When Jack came to stay at Miguel's place he said something along the lines of "the two of you make each other better."  If he crushed on her, she wouldn't have any better to get.  But that's just my take on it. 

That may be. But, they can't tell us that off-screen.  

[debraran]

21 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Have they always had a dog or is he new?  

They get him in this season, they discussed it last season.

[CelticBlackCat]

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

Yes, William is literally telling Beth that it all worked out, because Beth met the awesomeness that was William.  Again, Beth's feelings just do not matter.

I have come to the conclusion that Kate is not a very nice person.  Perhaps being daddy's little princess all those years has made her self centered and entitled?

 

Teenage Kevin's Randall hate really makes me uncomfortable.  It has such ugly undertones that goes beyond sibling rivalry.

Also, I know the brothers fought it out last season, but adult Kevin needs to confront this favortism with his mother.

I also do not need scenes of Rebecca smiling like an idiot while she talks about how her perfect husband pushed a child on a grieving mother.

Yes to all of this!  Randall's attitude that Beth needs to get on board with his desires because it's gonna happen is just wrong.  Beth ended up liking and loving William but she was put upon in the first place with no discussion, not to mention Kevin was in their basement for a whole year?  Yikes.

I'm reserving hatred for Kate but she does get self-centered at times.  Also, if the audition scene had happened in real life, she wouldn't have gotten such a nice speech from the audition man.  When you go to auditions, you are literally groveling for the part and are not there to tell the audition team what you expect out of life.

[OtterMommy]

6 minutes ago, CelticBlackCat said:

Yes to all of this!  Randall's attitude that Beth needs to get on board with his desires because it's gonna happen is just wrong.  Beth ended up liking and loving William but she was put upon in the first place with no discussion, not to mention Kevin was in their basement for a whole year?  Yikes.

To be fair, Kevin wasn't in the basement for the entire year.  Part of the time, he was in Beth's office.

But, I'm completely on board with this frustration about Randall just expecting Beth to get on board with whatever he wants (and then Beth actually doing it...).  I found them to be surprisingly unbelievable in this episode.

[Blakeston]

In the second episode of the series, didn't Miguel say something about how Jack was incredibly lucky to land a knockout like Rebecca? I don't remember the exact words, but he seemed to be saying that Rebecca was out of Jack's league, with her looks being a big part of the reason.

I think that has a lot to do with why people think Miguel was crushing on her all along.

As for Randall's "get on board" speech, it was definitely jerkish. But at least he acknowledged at the end of the episode that it wasn't a good way to treat a partner. I don't recall ever hearing Jack acknowledge that there's anything unhealthy about the way he steamrolled Rebecca when it came to major decisions.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

In the second episode of the series, didn't Miguel say something about how Jack was incredibly lucky to land a knockout like Rebecca? I don't remember the exact words, but he seemed to be saying that Rebecca was out of Jack's league, with her looks being a big part of the reason.

I think that has a lot to do with why people think Miguel was crushing on her all along.

As for Randall's "get on board" speech, it was definitely jerkish. But at least he acknowledged at the end of the episode that it wasn't a good way to treat a partner. I don't recall ever hearing Jack acknowledge that there's anything unhealthy about the way he steamrolled Rebecca when it came to major decisions.

I thought Miguel was recommending Jack go home at a decent hour and not hang out in the bar drinking late by reminding him he was lucky to have Rebecca.   Though I think he did include some compliment about her looks as well, didn't he?   It felt to me like concern for his marriage.   

[DebbieM4]

5 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

To be fair, Kevin wasn't in the basement for the entire year.  Part of the time, he was in Beth's office.

But, I'm completely on board with this frustration about Randall just expecting Beth to get on board with whatever he wants (and then Beth actually doing it...).  I found them to be surprisingly unbelievable in this episode.

I agree.   They both seemed very different than last season, totally out of character.   I wasn't seeing their usual chemistry either.  

[debraran]

2 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

I agree.   They both seemed very different than last season, totally out of character.   I wasn't seeing their usual chemistry either.  

I thought it was just me, I got a slightly panicky feeling, "what did they do? " wondering if the characters changed, lost the spark, or the writing changed, something seemed off with those two. But it got better. I almost wondered if they were angry at each other when it filmed. The writers seemed to make Randall a jerk and Beth suddenly a patsy. Randall was always perfect and mature,this just seemed like a prelude to a breakdown but that would be overkill with last years so well acted collapse.

Re Miguel, his wife was beautiful and I think he just wanted Jack not to be a jerk and lose her. He said in an interview thoughts on their on screen friendship:

 

When Miguel and Shelly divulge their divorce to their best friends it’s such a shocker and Jack and Rebecca weigh their relationship against it. Emotionally between Jack and Miguel, there’s such a deep trust there. So for Miguel to be doing something like having an affair would be construed as dishonest and distrustful. Jack would be blown away if that was the truth. Emotionally for me and Miguel, for a friend to think that’s something he would do, it’s hallowing. Doing the scene, Milo and I talked about it a lot before we shot it. We talked about what it would feel like for a friend to accuse another friend of something he would never, ever do. Jack accusing Miguel of that really cut him and hurt him, and Miguel had to kind of knock that thought out of Jack’s mind with what he says.

What is it between these two that makes them such great friends given all of their opposite traits?

Each one of them have qualities the other envies, but they do have the same sense of loyalty to each other and their relationships. That’s something they share and they envy each other’s qualities. Miguel is a bit more of an ambitious type. He wants to climb the ladder of success and he wants to bring his friend along with him. He got Jack the job at the construction company. He got him the promotion that helped him provide more for his kids. What Miguel envies about Jack is how romantic he is. The relationship that Jack and Rebecca have carved out for each other. As much as they love each other, Miguel doesn’t have that with Shelly and Miguel wishes he did. The fact that they maybe want to learn from each other keeps them together and so tight.

When you play the past scenes, do you play them like Miguel has always had hidden feelings for Rebecca or do you play it as though they developed later?

Miguel has never had feelings for Rebecca in that way in the past. Miguel is not jealous or envious of Jack having Rebecca, he’s envious of what they have because he doesn’t have that with Shelly. He loves Jack more than anyone. Other than Shelly, maybe. Miguel knows what Rebecca has done to improve Jack’s life and his being. He would never have feelings for Rebecca like that in the past. I play it like, ‘Don’t be stupid, stay on track.’ That’s what I try to do with Miguel.

Are you excited for people to see this other side of Miguel and maybe get some love back from passionate viewers?

I am excited for them to learn more about Miguel, but I don’t mind them having suspicions about him. I like that, actually. A complex story and character is more interesting than handing them exactly what they want. Allowing them to feel one way now and maybe feeling another way later — and the challenge of that as an actor to get there — is super exciting to me with this character and story. Because of the broad strokes I know that not everything people have seen is what they think it is. There’s more behind the curtain and the curtain is being pulled open slowly. That gets viewers to come back every week and learn a bit more about each and every character.

[Guest]

Maybe they should have Jon Huertas doing all the press.  He's far more eloquent and interesting than Fogelman or Ventimiglia.

[Blakeston]

11 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I thought Miguel was recommending Jack go home at a decent hour and not hang out in the bar drinking late by reminding him he was lucky to have Rebecca.   Though I think he did include some compliment about her looks as well, didn't he?   It felt to me like concern for his marriage.   

I think it was deliberately written to be ambiguous - so that it could be used as evidence of how much Miguel cares about Jack and Rebecca being happy together, but could also be used as evidence that Miguel has always found Rebecca to be hot.

[StarryNight]

On 9/30/2017 at 0:21 PM, Cardie said:

Putting the ladder together with Kate's guilt: Jack gets to the house before the fire dept., sees that Kate is at the window unable to get out of her room because of flames, climbs up and pulls her out but falls in the process and dies. He's just come from work and does not encounter the flames directly. Thus what he has with him and its not being singed or smudged with smoke.

I like this theory. Randall may have been out with the mystery girl, and Kevin is off with Sophie.

[laurakaye]

22 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

To be fair, Kevin wasn't in the basement for the entire year.  Part of the time, he was in Beth's office.

But, I'm completely on board with this frustration about Randall just expecting Beth to get on board with whatever he wants (and then Beth actually doing it...).  I found them to be surprisingly unbelievable in this episode.

I swear, I have watched this show from the beginning, and I didn't realize that Kevin had been living with Beth and Randall for an entire year.  And why was that, exactly?  He walked off the set of his show, sure - but wasn't he supposedly on a hit tv show?  Why would he need to crash in his brother's basement?  Where did his tv money go?  And then in this episode, Kevin is suddenly buying out an incredibly popular restaurant to celebrate his and Kate's birthdays so they can have the place to themselves.  I understand that he is starring in a Ron Howard film, but is he suddenly rich again?  The contradictions are enough to give me whiplash.

 

14 hours ago, debraran said:

Re Miguel, his wife was beautiful and I think he just wanted Jack not to be a jerk and lose her. He said in an interview thoughts on their on screen friendship:

When you play the past scenes, do you play them like Miguel has always had hidden feelings for Rebecca or do you play it as though they developed later?

Miguel has never had feelings for Rebecca in that way in the past. Miguel is not jealous or envious of Jack having Rebecca, he’s envious of what they have because he doesn’t have that with Shelly. He loves Jack more than anyone. Other than Shelly, maybe. Miguel knows what Rebecca has done to improve Jack’s life and his being. He would never have feelings for Rebecca like that in the past. I play it like, ‘Don’t be stupid, stay on track.’ That’s what I try to do with Miguel.

I appreciate you quoting this interview, and maybe this belongs in the Unpopular Opinion thread, but the bolded line really bothers me.  Why do the actors have to fill us in on their motivations?  If they are good at creating a character, they shouldn't have to tell us.  We would already know, or at least suspect.  My take on Miguel is that he did indeed have feelings for Rebecca...because last season, we see that they've gotten married to each other.  So for the actor to say he never had feelings for Rebecca in that way - I find that super frustrating and completely at odds with what we have been shown on the show.  At some point, the story has to take over and the feels have to take a backseat.  I get rather offended when the cast tells us how to feel about what they're showing us.  It's as if they think we're too busy searching for a fresh box of tissues to see the cracks in the storylines. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by laurakaye

[OtterMommy]

7 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

I swear, I have watched this show from the beginning, and I didn't realize that Kevin had been living with Beth and Randall for an entire year.  And why was that, exactly?  He walked off the set of his show, sure - but wasn't he supposedly on a hit tv show?  Why would he need to crash in his brother's basement?  Where did his tv money go?  And then in this episode, Kevin is suddenly buying out an incredibly popular restaurant to celebrate his and Kate's birthdays so they can have the place to themselves.  I understand that he is starring in a Ron Howard film, but is he suddenly rich again?  The contradictions are enough to give me whiplash.

The way I remember it, Kevin had a swanky hotel in NYC, but felt "lonely," hence moving in with Randall, Beth, their girls, and Randall's dying father--in their 3 bedroom house.  It doesn't sound like he moved in with Sophie at any time, as Sophie mentioned in this episode that she is her mother's caregiver.

I'm not exactly sure how time works on this show.  I guess they'll start each season on the birthday, but it seemed to me that the action of season 1 took place over only a few months (also, we learned early on that William only had a few months to live).

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

The way I remember it, Kevin had a swanky hotel in NYC, but felt "lonely," hence moving in with Randall, Beth, their girls, and Randall's dying father--in their 3 bedroom house.  It doesn't sound like he moved in with Sophie at any time, as Sophie mentioned in this episode that she is her mother's caregiver.

I'm not exactly sure how time works on this show.  I guess they'll start each season on the birthday, but it seemed to me that the action of season 1 took place over only a few months (also, we learned early on that William only had a few months to live).

I think probably we missed the summer, like when the show wasn't on, time still marched on.  When the show picked up, Kevin had already had his audtion, gotten the part, and started filiming.  Randall and Rebecca were already pretty far along in the adoption talking process (not to each other of course).  Kate and Toby were firmly moved back in and Kate had had time to lose 2 dress sizes, whether or not we can see it doesn't matter. She said she lost 2 dress sizes, so she did.  That doesn't happen overnight.

So, we had Thanksgiving and Christmas last year and Valentine's day maybe.  Thanksgiving was the 8th episode.  Valentine's day was the 15th, and they had 18, so it seems like it was at least 7 months.  And, like I said, I think time marched on without us watching.

[OtterMommy]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

So, we had Thanksgiving and Christmas last year and Valentine's day maybe.  Thanksgiving was the 8th episode.  Valentine's day was the 15th, and they had 18, so it seems like it was at least 7 months.  And, like I said, I think time marched on without us watching.

I think so, too...although it just seems a bit odd to have 6-7 months in detail and then nothing.  But, on the other hand, I get that they sort of have to treat each season as a year, thanks to the way they set up the show (with the birthday).  It just feels a bit uneven to me.  But, I'm nitpicky...

[KikiBda]

I think I missed something....where was Jack when is wife came to get him to come home?  Then the next thing was the house burned.  Same night? What house? 

 

Someone help please. Thanks 

[bettername2come]

1 minute ago, KikiBda said:

I think I missed something....where was Jack when is wife came to get him to come home?  Then the next thing was the house burned.  Same night? What house? 

 

Someone help please. Thanks 

It's two different events/time periods.

[Crs97]

Jack was at Miguel's place when Rebecca came to get him.  The Pearson home burned, but we don't know the timeline yet.

[debraran]

This conversation with the adoption is crazy....these are 2 adults. Randall's concerned about legit things, you don't have to have a troubled foster child with severe issues but his wife is a little too "whatever". Find it strange.

[Chewy101]

On 9/26/2017 at 11:42 PM, NeverLate said:

I love them all, warts and all. I think Toby is a very insecure man, but he loves Kate. We have seen her without him.

Far as I can tell, she was no worse off and FREE. Toby is toxic and now she has tied herself to him. But who isn't toxic on this show. 

There are warts, and then there controlling manipulative abusers.

 

On 9/27/2017 at 8:13 AM, Mrs. DuRona said:

  On 9/27/2017 at 7:12 AM, Haleth said:

I'm not sure adopting an older child is a wise compromise.  Beth better be 100% sure it's what she wants to do before bringing another child into their lives

Rebecca gave Randall that speech about how she wasn't sure about him for awhile, but Jack just knew, even in the hospital. This show is all about taking leaps with no real certainty. They are are all ruled by their emotions.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 10/3/2017 at 6:23 PM, laurakaye said:

I Why do the actors have to fill us in on their motivations?  If they are good at creating a character, they shouldn't have to tell us.  We would already know, or at least suspect.  

So much this.  My first thought was..that was freaking lotta words needed to explain what the show itself should have demonstrated to us (although, yes, the actor is very articulate).

[NeverLate]

9 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

Far as I can tell, she was no worse off and FREE. Toby is toxic and now she has tied herself to him. But who isn't toxic on this show. 

There are warts, and then there controlling manipulative abusers.

 

Rebecca gave Randall that speech about how she wasn't sure about him for awhile, but Jack just knew, even in the hospital. This show is all about taking leaps with no real certainty. They are are all ruled by their emotions.

I don't believe Toby is toxic or an abuser, or that Kate is tied to him. The guy at the camp she went to, now he was an abuser! 

[Chewy101]

8 hours ago, NeverLate said:

I don't believe Toby is toxic or an abuser, or that Kate is tied to him. The guy at the camp she went to, now he was an abuser! 

I think she has a type. She is so insecure, she leans toward the controlling ones. Even her twin had to fire her when he realized how she was letting him do it with work as well.

[NeverLate]

2 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

I think she has a type. She is so insecure, she leans toward the controlling ones. Even her twin had to fire her when he realized how she was letting him do it with work as well.

I think Kevin leans on her, as much as she does him. They are twins. I have twin nieces, they do twin things.

[SnarkySheep]

On 9/26/2017 at 10:10 PM, ShawnaLanne said:

I think there is some testosterone involved yes,  but they are severely co dependant. I think he'd still have problems.

But don't forget, less than they were...in the beginning, Kate's actual job was as Kevin's assistant. He cut her loose around the time that she and Toby got more serious.

[Barlowe]

On 2017-10-02 at 9:20 PM, OtterMommy said:

To be fair, Kevin wasn't in the basement for the entire year.  Part of the time, he was in Beth's office.

But, I'm completely on board with this frustration about Randall just expecting Beth to get on board with whatever he wants (and then Beth actually doing it...).  I found them to be surprisingly unbelievable in this episode.

I might have missed it but wasn't the basement her office?

[OtterMommy]

10 hours ago, Lilacly said:

I might have missed it but wasn't the basement her office?

No.  In the episode where she and William enjoyed some special brownies, she then "moved Kevin down to the basement."

[ShawnaLanne]

22 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

But don't forget, less than they were...in the beginning, Kate's actual job was as Kevin's assistant. He cut her loose around the time that she and Toby got more serious.

I had forgotten that. Hmm. 

[Sweet-tea]

On 9/26/2017 at 9:24 PM, Laurie4H said:

Her face a bit chubby but nothing drastic.

The one thIng that bothers me about this show as several others are the monologues.  Randall's perfection speech and Rebecca's speech to Jack at the end.  People don't deliver such contrived speeches like that like.

I agree. It takes me out of the show. The monologues are the reason I stopped watching Grey's Anatomy years ago. The show is full of speeches. Same goes for Scandal. I only lasted one season. I couldn't stand it. 

I was pleasantly surprised by the scene with the director. I like that they didn't go the normal route of Kate coming in there, blowing everyone away with her talent and then being told she's too fat. The director knocked her right off her pity pot. 

I see trouble ahead for Randall and Beth. I couldn't believe it when he told her she needed to get her arms around the idea of adopting a child, like it was a done deal and she had no say. That would've really ticked me off!

Sometimes the jumping back and forth between past and present gets on my nerves. I'm just getting into a story and then they switch to something else. 

The fire was shocking. I was expecting a car accident. 

[debraran]

I think they set it up for everyone to think it was a car accident but it was too easy and done often. A fire is more dramatic. I wish they would stay a little longer with stories like the foster child.  Randall with his children, Randall waiting for a fake Mom to show up, Randall with his children, it works some shows, others is feels choppy.

[Chewy101]

On 10/7/2017 at 11:30 PM, NeverLate said:

On 10/7/2017 at 9:03 PM, Chewy101 said:

I think she has a type. She is so insecure, she leans toward the controlling ones. Even her twin had to fire her when he realized how she was letting him do it with work as well.

I think Kevin leans on her, as much as she does him. They are twins. I have twin nieces, they do twin things.

I have identical twin cousins, and they have never caused one another to sabotage themselves for the sake of the other. Kevin realized Kate is hurting herself working for him and he let her off the hook. They have still been there for each other as siblings (as much as her jerk fiance lets her, anyway). When he heard how she viewed their working relationship and then fired her, I thought it was very selfless and sweet, and completely thinking of her. Twin connections are awesome. 

[Chewy101]

On 9/27/2017 at 9:26 AM, doodlebug said:

From what we've seen, Kate is, at best, mediocre and her voice is not anywhere close to the standard required of a professional.  I don't think she could get past the audition for The Voice at this point, let alone be competitive.  And it is exceedingly strange that a 37 year old woman who hasn't sung regularly in years, who lives in LA and has some showbiz connections; would actually think she had a shot at a professional singing career with virtually no preparation. 

Whatever drove Rebecca (who at least had talent) seems to be driving Kate as well.