S02.E06: Scientology and Celebrity: The Betrayal of Paul Haggis

[msrachelj]

10 hours ago, juliet73 said:

I don't think Katie or Nicole will ever say anything, not just because of money or a legal contract, but because they  both moved on with their lives. I think the little time they were involved with the "church" wouldn't add anything to what has already been said or known so it's not worth it for them to put themselves out there, IMO.   

except that it is the morally correct thing to do and in that case, they are not doing the right thing. they could possibly make a difference in the lives of , even one, of the cult's victims if they spoke out and told their personal stories , especially since it has to do with the disgusting tom cruise. 

[DkNNy79]

4 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

that's the reason i am not a big fan of katie. of course we don't know exactly what the deal is. but i find it very off-putting that miss holmes has not spoked out. she has her child,  unlike nicole. who i also hope someday is able to tell her story. 

my question is. what could possibly happen to her if she speaks out? is there a legal agreement that she only gets to keep her child if she keeps mum on cruise and scientology. is that actually a legal thing? it sounds like it should not hold up.

Well there is the harassment factor...  Especially since she was married to "Mr. Scientology."  We've seen how nasty these scientologists get.  Maybe she doesn't want to put up with it, especially since her daughter is still young.

There are other folks speaking out about scientology.  Actual former scientologists who can attest to the abuses they've suffered or seen inflicted on others.

[msrachelj]

On 9/20/2017 at 2:29 PM, Whimsy said:

I actually think it may help her career, quite honestly.

That's interesting, to me, that anyone would think that.  Tom Cruise has been a bigger star than Travolta for a very long time.  I don't think Travolta has really been relevant for like 10-15 years.  Besides the recent OJ Simpson show, the most recent role I can identify on IMDB that had any sort of "buzz" was Hairspray in 2007.  I think TC's star is finally dimming, though, and I am SOOOOOOO happy!

i agree. she doesn't have much a career as of now. her father's a lawyer . can't he figure something out.. she'd probably make a lot of money on a tell all book.

i can't hate john travolta. i don't understand how he can stay in this cult. i believe he joined after his girlfriend died. forget her name, she was an actress and older than he was.

on the other hand, i can't stand tom cruise, he seems like an horrible little troll and a phony piece of shit. 

[msrachelj]

On 9/20/2017 at 10:54 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I can and do expect more from Katie.  She's really disappointed me.  Katie got out with her child because she was front and center, and even participated in the alienation of Nicole's kids.  It is no coincidence that Nicole gave an interview speaking of the pain she feels that her kids call her "Nicole", and Katie quickly gives an interview stating Nicole's kids call her "mom".  Total bitch move, and done to show the world that Katie is the superior parent, and Nicole is a massive loser who cannot hold on to her own kids.  With the unspoken suggestion that Nicole sees her adopted children as inferior.

There are normal, everyday people risking themselves to expose the evils of Scientology.  They are not millionaires, like Katie.  They don't necessarily have ironclad contracts protecting their children, like Katie.  I really don't care if Katie loses some money by speaking out.  She is independently wealthy, and young and capable of making millions more.  If she spoke out, and Cruise punished her, that would be one of the biggest steps in crumbling Scientology.  Katie holds that in the palm of her hand, and does nothing with it.  I don't respect her.  Others do and that's fine.

Katie could even continue to be a coward and let people around her leak anonymously.  There are a large number of people in Katie's life who know the truth, and they're only holding back out of respect for Katie's wishes, IMO.  I will not apologize for having these feelings.  I just won't.  We're watching a show in which people have lost everything for Scientology, and continue to risk everything.  It's hard to deny that Katie has given up nothing.  And she is the most protected out of all the people we have seen.  She's not staying silent to protect her child - it's clear Tom doesn't want Suri, and/or the agreement keeps him from her.  She's not staying silent to protect her two other "children" - she clearly has no interest in them.  She's apparently staying silent to protect her multi-millions.  I refuse to make excuses for her.  This is just my honest opinion.  But Katie has always been this way, I don't know why I expected more of her. 

agreed! this being all for herself and fuck everyone else makes her look like a spoiled little selfish brat. protecting your child or not. i think little very rich and privileged suri would weather it just fine. and in the end she could look up to her mother as having done something fine and selfless instead of being all out for herself, the little bitch. 

[smorbie]

18 minutes ago, DkNNy79 said:

I finally got to watch the episode last night.  OMG - she looked like a total idiot.  The lies that these folks spew in the name of their "church."

I have always hated her.  I can't hear her voice without wanting to knock her into next Tuesday.  I couldn't figure out why.  She can't act, but there are a lot of people on television who can't really act. 

When I read upthread the description of her as "smug", I realized that's exactly why I can't stand her.  She's smug, and everyone she plays is smug (because she can't act).

As she sat there lying, I could tell she knew she was lying, and not just because I had just read the policy for myself.  She had that superior, I'm-so-much-smarter-than-you look on her stupid face.

[msrachelj]

23 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

I mean....yeah.  But Nicole isn't exactly some paragon of virtue.  She walked away from her kids.  Sure, they were in the hands of a cult and there was little she could do, but she still walked away.  She won the Golden Globe last weekend and specifically mentioned her kids....only it was just the kids she had with Keith.  She didn't say squat about the other two.  So...it's not like she should be lauded for everything she went through.  She was also complicit to a lot of things and keeps silent even though she had a front row seat for longer than Katie did.  

i never understood how she couldn't hire a high powered lawyer and get at least partial custody of her children. it's not like she couldn't afford it. what was the deal there? how do you walk away from your children. obviously joint or sole custody can be done. katy did it . shame on nicole. i wouldn't leave my cat with tom cruise. of course my cat was my child, so, no way. it looks to the pubic like she ran at all costs only thinking of herself. so here is another reason why we need a tell all from these women . yes, some of us are just curious but they are celebrities and in exchange for boatloads of money, they have given up a lot of their privacy. so their fans, the people who made them rich, deserve an answer.

8 minutes ago, smorbie said:

I have always hated her.  I can't hear her voice without wanting to knock her into next Tuesday.  I couldn't figure out why.  She can't act, but there are a lot of people on television who can't really act. 

When I read upthread the description of her as "smug", I realized that's exactly why I can't stand her.  She's smug, and everyone she plays is smug (because she can't act).

As she sat there lying, I could tell she knew she was lying, and not just because I had just read the policy for myself.  She had that superior, I'm-so-much-smarter-than-you look on her stupid face.

i loved "that 70's show" but i hated her. it could have worked with a different actress altogether. she sounds smug and full of herself. can't stand her. 

[smorbie]

3 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

i never understood how she couldn't hire a high powered lawyer and get at least partial custody of her children. it's not like she couldn't afford it. what was the deal there? how do you walk away from your children. obviously joint or sole custody can be done. katy did it . shame on nicole. i wouldn't leave my cat with tom cruise. of course my cat was my child, so, no way. it looks to the pubic like she ran at all costs only thinking of herself. so here is another reason why we need a tell all from these women . yes, some of us are just curious but they are celebrities and in exchange for boatloads of money, they have given up a lot of their privacy. so their fans, the people who made them rich, deserve an answer.

i loved "that 70's show" but i hated her. it could have worked with a different actress altogether. she sounds smug and full of herself. can't stand her. 

Nicole and Tom shared joint custody of the children, but as a scientologist, he surrounded them with nothing but other mini cabbages when he had them, and subjected them to sciontology teachings and auditing.  It was there that they learned what a horrible person their mother is, and that just acknowledging her endangers their future lifetimes.  Eventually they chose to live with their dad (or his sister, I guess) who continued the poisonous training of their minds.  I'm sure they would no more want to be with Nicole than they would want to spend time with a monster.

That's probably why Katie traded away her chance to talk publicly for the right to have sole custody of her little girl.

I actually have nothing but pity for both of these women.  I can't imagine being married to tiny tommy is fun no matter what the circumstances.  To have to divide my child with him would be unbearable.

[funky-rat]

53 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

i loved "that 70's show" but i hated her. it could have worked with a different actress altogether. she sounds smug and full of herself. can't stand her. 

I thought she was OK on the show, but couldn't stand her any time I saw her off of it.  Then I heard she was playing Karla Homolka in a movie, and as much as I followed that case, I have yet to watch it, and won't.  She's so far from Karla that I can't imagine just how horrible that movie is.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 9:19 AM, CaughtOnTape said:

I mean....yeah.  But Nicole isn't exactly some paragon of virtue.  She walked away from her kids.  Sure, they were in the hands of a cult and there was little she could do, but she still walked away.  She won the Golden Globe last weekend and specifically mentioned her kids....only it was just the kids she had with Keith.  She didn't say squat about the other two.  So...it's not like she should be lauded for everything she went through.  She was also complicit to a lot of things and keeps silent even though she had a front row seat for longer than Katie did.  

Nicole did not walk "away from her kids", but that's been discussed here many times, and I don't care to re-hash it.  The information is here if you're interested.

Are you referring to the Emmys?  She referenced that she wasn't home to tuck her kids in, which is an entirely inappropriate thing to say about two adult children.  Those children have chosen to cut their mother out of their lives, and would not have appreciated being mentioned by Nicole.  Nicole has done nothing but respect her children's wishes, in the hope that one day they'll come back.  I'm not sure what else she could do.  And no, Nicole did not sit quietly and watch two children be alienated from their mother - that was Katie.  Isabella was in Nicole's wedding to Keith Urban in 2006, so they were obviously still in her life.  That same year, Cruise and Katie married, and had been together for a year.  At the wedding, Leah Remini heard Isabella trashing Nicole, and witnessed Connor's silent pain.  Katie was absolutely front and center during the alienation, witnessed it, and participated in it.  The very reason Katie divorced Tom was because she personally witnessed the devastation wrought on Nicole's children.  Katie was lucky that Tom didn't have a new wife to help alienate Suri.  I would like to think that as Suri grew, Katie saw just how treacherous her actions were.  Not that she will admit to it or apologize to Nicole.

During Tom's marriage to Nicole, he drifted away from Scientology to the extent that Miscavige panicked and began the process of alienation Nicole from Tom and the children.  So no, Nicole absolutely did not see as much as Katie.  Katie came into the picture at the height of Tom's fanaticism, and there was nothing subtle about it.  She was immediately assigned a "minder" and she could not go out alone or give interviews without this person.  A red flag that anyone would see if not blinded by marrying a childhood crush who was seen as a ticket to big roles in Hollywood. 

I don't dislike Katie, and I was very happy that she got away.  All that goodwill has worn off now, because she does nothing to help those who are still trapped.  She's very lucky that she had an intelligent father who was an attorney, and very invested in her welfare.  Considering the length of the pre-nup, he wasn't blinded by Cruise, and no doubt warned Katie endlessly.

[WInterfalls]

1 hour ago, funky-rat said:

Then I heard she was playing Karla Homolka in a movie, and as much as I followed that case, I have yet to watch it, and won't.

Don't bother it's complete garbage. 

I used to really enjoy That 70's  Show, but I can't and won't watch it now because Danny Masterson is like 40% of the show. I can't look at that rapist without wanting to throw things at my TV. I wanted to do it during the episode when he was on for half a second defending Scientology. 

[WInterfalls]

3 hours ago, msrachelj said:

my question is. what could possibly happen to her if she speaks out? is there a legal agreement that she only gets to keep her child if she keeps mum on cruise and scientology. is that actually a legal thing? it sounds like it should not hold up.

It could cost her millions of dollars or depending on the agreements signed possibly contempt of court charges that could actually put her behind bars.  Again we have no idea what she signed just to get away with her daughter. Though I do think it would be unlikely they could revoke her custody agreement.  As someone else mentioned above I'm sure the harassment issue is on that list too.  

[RHJunkie]

4 hours ago, msrachelj said:

that's the reason i am not a big fan of katie. of course we don't know exactly what the deal is. but i find it very off-putting that miss holmes has not spoked out. she has her child,  unlike nicole. who i also hope someday is able to tell her story. 

my question is. what could possibly happen to her if she speaks out? is there a legal agreement that she only gets to keep her child if she keeps mum on cruise and scientology. is that actually a legal thing? it sounds like it should not hold up.

I'm not sure what real legal ramifications there might be but perhaps her silence is motivated by what was communicated beyond legal documents. Maybe she fears for the safety of her and her child should she speak out. Or maybe she just didn't want to disrupt their lives and be headlines news that pits her against the father of her child. Tom admitted that getting Suri away from Scientology was partly the reason for their divorce so obviously Katie knows enough to know that the tenants and workings of Scientology posed a danger to her child. Her secrets could be groundbreaking to the cause but given Scientology tactics, it takes a really brave person to be willing to take on the 'church'. Knowing Leah's personality before this all happened, I'm not surprised in the least that she would use her celebrity and risk her privacy and safety to show the world what Scientology is really about. 

[msrachelj]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

Nicole did not walk "away from her kids", but that's been discussed here many times, and I don't care to re-hash it.  The information is here if you're interested.

Are you referring to the Emmys?  She referenced that she wasn't home to tuck her kids in, which is an entirely inappropriate thing to say about two adult children.  Those children have chosen to cut their mother out of their lives, and would not have appreciated being mentioned by Nicole.  Nicole has done nothing but respect her children's wishes, in the hope that one day they'll come back.  I'm not sure what else she could do.  And no, Nicole did not sit quietly and watch two children be alienated from their mother - that was Katie.  Isabella was in Nicole's wedding to Keith Urban in 2006, so they were obviously still in her life.  That same year, Cruise and Katie married, and had been together for a year.  At the wedding, Leah Remini heard Isabella trashing Nicole, and witnessed Connor's silent pain.  Katie was absolutely front and center during the alienation, witnessed it, and participated in it.  The very reason Katie divorced Tom was because she personally witnessed the devastation wrought on Nicole's children.  Katie was lucky that Tom didn't have a new wife to help alienate Suri.  I would like to think that as Suri grew, Katie saw just how treacherous her actions were.  Not that she will admit to it or apologize to Nicole.

During Tom's marriage to Nicole, he drifted away from Scientology to the extent that Miscavige panicked and began the process of alienation Nicole from Tom and the children.  So no, Nicole absolutely did not see as much as Katie.  Katie came into the picture at the height of Tom's fanaticism, and there was nothing subtle about it.  She was immediately assigned a "minder" and she could not go out alone or give interviews without this person.  A red flag that anyone would see if not blinded by marrying a childhood crush who was seen as a ticket to big roles in Hollywood. 

I don't dislike Katie, and I was very happy that she got away.  All that goodwill has worn off now, because she does nothing to help those who are still trapped.  She's very lucky that she had an intelligent father who was an attorney, and very invested in her welfare.  Considering the length of the pre-nup, he wasn't blinded by Cruise, and no doubt warned Katie endlessly.

katie sounds like she is out for herself and her daughter and the hell with everyone else. nice. i hope her career stays in the can. what a nasty woman.

1 hour ago, WInterfalls said:

Don't bother it's complete garbage. 

I used to really enjoy That 70's  Show, but I can't and won't watch it now because Danny Masterson is like 40% of the show. I can't look at that rapist without wanting to throw things at my TV. I wanted to do it during the episode when he was on for half a second defending Scientology. 

i used to love it also. now i can't watch the reruns now because of those two.

i have heard about danny masterson doing something dastardly but i did not know what it was. can someone give me the short story on it? thanks.

[laurakaye]

On 9/19/2017 at 10:05 PM, sistersledge said:

Next week looks brutal.

As much as I love Leah and everything she's doing, I'm not sure I can handle next week's episode, based on the teaser.  I may just come here and read this thread instead.  I thought about the voice on that tape recorder for hours, and the fact that it may have been directed at an 8-year old.

 

On 9/19/2017 at 11:57 PM, ParadoxLost said:

Agree.  That was very effective.  Also liked the subtle roll to clips of Kidman and Holmes that you can get away with minimal harassment if you keep your mouth shut.  There was a fair bit of telling without saying as they rolled the clips in certain parts of the episode referring to media/gossip without saying it.

I thought that segment was masterfully done.  It was actually more powerful than Leah speaking their names, because most people who are invested in this show know that both women were tied to Cruise and have not spoken openly about him or their experiences.  Just showing their faces, as well as the others shown, spoke volumes: as in, here are the current celebrities involved in the CO$ who refuse to see what is right in front of them.  I wonder how much backlash Leah is receiving from this collection of people, let alone Miss Cabbage and the mini-cabbages.  She is made of way stronger stock than I.  She's kind of amazing.

 

On 9/20/2017 at 11:09 PM, ParadoxLost said:

Its likely what Haggis said.  By the time you figure out that the OT levels don't make sense, your entire family and circle of friends are Scientologists.  It becomes easier not to leave unless something makes it more uncomfortable to stay or easier to go.

Here's what I wonder...by the time anyone manages to climb to the level of Xenu the Great or whatever - at that point, they've been in for so long, they're completely indoctrinated and likely have family and friends within the CO$.  So do most people take the Xenu story in full belief?  Or is it at this point that they begin to realize that they've spent the last decades in a huge lie?  I just wonder if any of the other Level 8's (not sure if that's the correct number) seek out any others of that level to see if their beliefs match up, or if they simply take it at face value because they know no other way and are afraid to find out the truth.

[msrachelj]

13 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

I'm not sure what real legal ramifications there might be but perhaps her silence is motivated by what was communicated beyond legal documents. Maybe she fears for the safety of her and her child should she speak out. Or maybe she just didn't want to disrupt their lives and be headlines news that pits her against the father of her child. Tom admitted that getting Suri away from Scientology was partly the reason for their divorce so obviously Katie knows enough to know that the tenants and workings of Scientology posed a danger to her child. Her secrets could be groundbreaking to the cause but given Scientology tactics, it takes a really brave person to be willing to take on the 'church'. Knowing Leah's personality before this all happened, I'm not surprised in the least that she would use her celebrity and risk her privacy and safety to show the world what Scientology is really about. 

i have so much respect for leah. she is brave. i call b.s. on being harassed if katie were to speak up.

leah is doing fine. katie would have a strong ally in her, and her father is obviously a smart lawyer. 

it appears that katie cares about no one else's welfare but hers and her childs. 

[Chaos Theory]

So people who don't make enemies of Scientology are evil?  Isn't that what Scientology does?  

[smorbie]

23 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

As much as I love Leah and everything she's doing, I'm not sure I can handle next week's episode, based on the teaser.  I may just come here and read this thread instead.  I thought about the voice on that tape recorder for hours, and the fact that it may have been directed at an 8-year old.

 

I thought that segment was masterfully done.  It was actually more powerful than Leah speaking their names, because most people who are invested in this show know that both women were tied to Cruise and have not spoken openly about him or their experiences.  Just showing their faces, as well as the others shown, spoke volumes: as in, here are the current celebrities involved in the CO$ who refuse to see what is right in front of them.  I wonder how much backlash Leah is receiving from this collection of people, let alone Miss Cabbage and the mini-cabbages.  She is made of way stronger stock than I.  She's kind of amazing.

 

Here's what I wonder...by the time anyone manages to climb to the level of Xenu the Great or whatever - at that point, they've been in for so long, they're completely indoctrinated and likely have family and friends within the CO$.  So do most people take the Xenu story in full belief?  Or is it at this point that they begin to realize that they've spent the last decades in a huge lie?  I just wonder if any of the other Level 8's (not sure if that's the correct number) seek out any others of that level to see if their beliefs match up, or if they simply take it at face value because they know no other way and are afraid to find out the truth.

You are NOT allowed to talk about the OT levels.  So, going to someone else and asking what his opinion was would get you declared.  you would lose your family, your friends, and maybe your job.  If you decided to try to stay by admitting to the crime of talking about your religion to fellow sheeple, you would get to pay thousands and thousands of dollars for many months of auditing.

[italianguy626]

35 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

i have so much respect for leah. she is brave. i call b.s. on being harassed if katie were to speak up.

leah is doing fine. katie would have a strong ally in her, and her father is obviously a smart lawyer. 

it appears that katie cares about no one else's welfare but hers and her childs. 

Have you been watching the same show we all have? The lengths this cult will go to smash SPs is legendary. Hell, they broke into IRS offices to try to gather dirt on the agency. I don't blame Katie one bit for keeping a low profile.

I have a kid and if there was a possibility that an organization was going to go after my kid, I'm going to be damn sure to do whatever it takes to protect the kid.

I don't get the level of vitriol that is being expressed for Nicole and Katie.

Edited September 22, 2017 by italianguy626
PMIF

[msrachelj]

2 minutes ago, italianguy626 said:

Have you been watching the same show we all have? The lengths this cult will go to smash SPs is legendary. Hell, they broke into IRS offices to try to gather dirt on the agency. I don't blame Katie one bit for keeping a low profile.

I have a kid and if there was a possibility that an organization was going to go after my kid, I'm going to be damn sure to do whatever it takes to protect the kid.

I don't get the level of vitriol that is being expressed for Nicole and Katie.

i stand by what i said. they were in a cult, they were both married to one of the biggest pieces of shit in it and i bet they have information that could help others or help bring down the organization.. i guess i feel differently about trying to be selfless if at all possible. 

[MelissaMinion]

On 9/19/2017 at 10:57 PM, ParadoxLost said:

I hate bringing this up because I find Prepon smug and annoying.  Plus I think she is one of the worse Scientologists because there is no way she doesn't know what Danny Masterson has allegedly done and what Scientology covered up for him given she was his costar and her former relationship with his brother.

But while I think her statement about never having seen anything about Scientology's prejudice (and worse) about homosexuality is a lie.  And I've seen a nutball interview where she speaks gibberish about the tone scale to prove it.  It also comes in an episode where Haggis recounted that he was surprised that Scientology didn't back him up about prop 8.  Haggis read all the books too.  There is definitely some deluding themselves going on with celeb Scientologists. 

You make a good point. Haggis did have access to that same material over the years, and yet his expectation was that Scientology would agree with his position. It makes me wonder how much of the studies are glossed over by celebrity members.  Or are quietly explained away by handlers..."well, yes, this was written in the 1950s, remember..."

I would like to know  the average amount of time it takes a person to pass each OT level, but it would need to be normalized for different levels of income and free time. Because if the breakdown is celebrities spending much less time on each level, that could be explained away with saying regular public doesn't have the money or the free time to blast through them.

And that takes me back to Miscavige. His early study to become an auditor was fast-tracked; rushed through because they wanted him to be presented as the youngest certified auditor..., and I'm really not sure he went any further up the bridge than he did as a teen. 

[MsNewsradio]

24 minutes ago, italianguy626 said:

Have you been watching the same show we all have? The lengths this cult will go to smash SPs is legendary. Hell, they broke into IRS offices to try to gather dirt on the agency. I don't blame Katie one bit for keeping a low profile.

I have a kid and if there was a possibility that an organization was going to go after my kid, I'm going to be damn sure to do whatever it takes to protect the kid.

I don't get the level of vitriol that is being expressed for Nicole and Katie.

Agreed. I'm sorry, but I'm certainly not going to vilify Katie or Nicole because of their not speaking out. As it has been said many times, no one here knows the exact specifications of the agreement that allowed Katie to leave with the custody arrangement she has with Suri. Her child is 11 years old. Even if there were no provisions in the agreement regarding speaking out against the CO$ and the only threat was the harassment, I still wouldn't open my child up to possible attacks like that. They have proven to be an incredibly insidious and relentless organization. For crying out loud, they installed members as neighbors living next to Mike Rinder and his current wife to spy on them!  If it were me, I would be keeping my mouth shut too, at least until my children were grown. If the stories about Katie and the divorce are true, she literally had to flee. Calling her selfish seems to be a bit much. 

 

Nothing that Nicole or Katie are being accused of ("abandoning" Connor and Isabella to escape, helping turn them against their mother as an SP) are unique to them in Scientology - many are actions that other people who have spoken on Leah's show have engaged in themselves with their own families and friends - the only difference is they aren't celebrities. Yes, those people are speaking out now, but for many it is after years of being silent. And that silence is predicated on the lasting psychological (and sometimes physical) effects of being in a cult, and the fear of the repercussions of said cult. I'm not judging the people who have gone on Leah's show for not speaking up sooner, and I'm not going to judge Nicole and Katie for their inaction simply because they have higher profiles. There is nothing to say that Nicole or Katie won't speak out in the future. 

[WInterfalls]

1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

i have heard about danny masterson doing something dastardly but i did not know what it was. can someone give me the short story on it? thanks.

He is under investigation by the LAPD for at least 3 rapes. The victims are all former Scientologists who were told by the church to keep quite and also interrogated and punished for the crime of having been raped.  Tony Ortega has the stories of all three.

https://tonyortega.org/2017/03/03/lapd-probing-scientology-and-danny-masterston-for-multiple-rapes-cover-up/

https://tonyortega.org/2017/03/08/danny-masterson-victim-c-gets-support-from-a-veteran-actress-but-will-lapd-answer-the-call/

https://tonyortega.org/2017/03/11/source-scientology-made-danny-mastersons-victim-b-search-past-lives-to-explain-being-raped/

Also this topic has been discussed a lot in the High Profile Scientologists thread.  

[Auntie Anxiety]

There's an interesting article in today's Daily Mail UK. Here Is the headline:

EXCLUSIVE: She was Scientology royalty - served as L Ron Hubbard's 'Commodore Messenger' - but Janis Grady tells how an excoriating rant by leader David Miscavige over lack of preparation for a visit from Tom Cruise made her flee the church

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4817386/Janis-Grady-Scientology-royalty-reveals-fled.html#ixzz4tRAJTd6I 

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

On 9/20/2017 at 0:48 AM, dwarmed said:

lso, I'm intrigued by celebrities denying they are part of Scientology. Are they even allowed to do that? I would think they would get into trouble for that, if they are expected to publicly represent Scientology and recruit others.

 They might be permitted to, under the umbrella of "acceptable truth."  I believe that's what it's called, it's been a long time since I've read about it.

Basically, you are allowed to lie if it benefits Scientology.

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

i stand by what i said. they were in a cult, they were both married to one of the biggest pieces of shit in it and i bet they have information that could help others or help bring down the organization.. i guess i feel differently about trying to be selfless if at all possible. 

I am not trying to be argumentative so I hope it doesn't come across that way. I'm genuinely curious. What kind of information could either of them have to bring down Scientology? So far what is already known from others is lots of first hand stories of abuse and enslavement of children. Even with those kinds of horrible stories, it will be hard to use them legally to bring down the "church", so I'm wondering what Katie and Nicole might have seen that would help more than that? It's super unlikely that they saw any of the stuff going on in the Sea Org or the Hole. I doubt they know anything about the financial shenanigans.  I'm sure they could expound about the vileness that is Cruise, but if people can find a way to ignore what is already known to be going on in COS, it's likely they will ignore anything told about Cruise - who people already know is a grade A ass. 

[Lady Iris]

6 hours ago, smorbie said:

mini cabbages

Hah! I crack up everytime I see a cabbage reference now! Whoever coined it is simply brilliant and I applaud you. I wish there was a way to let Leah and Mike know of the moniker that's been bestowed upon The Big Cabbage.

[kieyra]

I'm also guessing Nicole and Katie would be getting less grief (and we wouldn't be hearing the phrase "abandoned her kids" about kids who stayed in the church with the other parent) if they were men instead of women.

[ketose]

8 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

Katie fell off the map basically once Dawson's Creek ended. She landed the Batman role but really, her career has never been something wildly magnificent even when she was with Cruise. She's been pretty low key since her split with Cruise and more so than just acting opportunities, I think that she retained full custody of Suri because she agreed to keep her mouth shut about Cruise and Scientology.

Katie didn't even make it to the second Batman movie.

[Waterlilly]

Read "The Unbreakable Miss Lovely". By Tony Ortega. You will be amazed by the lengths they will go to destroy someone.

[TheGreenWave]

Thought that just popped into my head on this episode, but not surprising considering the stories of others: I thought it was interesting that Paul stated he was "using" CO$ tactics back at the friends who confronted him about the resignation letter and he couldn't believe they didn't realize it.  Now, granted I don't know the particulars of the "tactics" other than they sound very ordinary self-help to me, but it is almost like they retrain you on how to think and that is extremely difficult to stop in your day-to-day.  No matter how long some of these contributors are out, they still fall into the CO$-isms and use cult-talk in the interviews.  It has got to be a long re-learning process on how to be/think normally.

[Auntie Anxiety]

TheGreenWave, if you read the above article that I referred to, you'd see yet another Co$ survivor who still has trouble shutting those thoughts down. She writes in her memoir that when whenever she hurts herself (by accident), she reverts to the Co$ "blame-responsibility"  brain-washing. She knows it's crazy but...... I think it's probably like an adult who realizes that his/her parents were messed up and wants to be different, but in times of stress, falls back on those deeply ingrained patterns. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Auntie Anxiety

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

 They might be permitted to, under the umbrella of "acceptable truth."  I believe that's what it's called, it's been a long time since I've read about it.

Basically, you are allowed to lie if it benefits Scientology.

That reminds me of something.  One thing I found amusing was that Tommy Davis lying about disconnection is what sent Haggis on his path to learning what Co$ had been up to.

It was the karmic justice of it and how Haggis was so affronted that Davis ignored LRH's teaching..."don't lie in PR."

[RichiesOlderBro]

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

I am not trying to be argumentative so I hope it doesn't come across that way. I'm genuinely curious. What kind of information could either of them have to bring down Scientology? So far what is already known from others is lots of first hand stories of abuse and enslavement of children. Even with those kinds of horrible stories, it will be hard to use them legally to bring down the "church", so I'm wondering what Katie and Nicole might have seen that would help more than that? It's super unlikely that they saw any of the stuff going on in the Sea Org or the Hole. I doubt they know anything about the financial shenanigans.  I'm sure they could expound about the vileness that is Cruise, but if people can find a way to ignore what is already known to be going on in COS, it's likely they will ignore anything told about Cruise - who people already know is a grade A ass. 

No way Katie or Nicole can single handedly bring down the billion dollar corporation that Scientology has become. That stuff only happens in the movies. 

 

And what does 'bring down' mean anyhow??

[smorbie]

2 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

Hah! I crack up everytime I see a cabbage reference now! Whoever coined it is simply brilliant and I applaud you. I wish there was a way to let Leah and Mike know of the moniker that's been bestowed upon The Big Cabbage.

I didn't come up with that, though I will take credit for mini cabbages.  I think she's very active on twitter and responds to people sometimes.  I'm not on twitter, and don't want to be, or I would tell her.

3 hours ago, italianguy626 said:

Have you been watching the same show we all have? The lengths this cult will go to smash SPs is legendary. Hell, they broke into IRS offices to try to gather dirt on the agency. I don't blame Katie one bit for keeping a low profile.

I have a kid and if there was a possibility that an organization was going to go after my kid, I'm going to be damn sure to do whatever it takes to protect the kid.

I don't get the level of vitriol that is being expressed for Nicole and Katie.

Me, either.  Walk a mile in their shoes.  Ever been stalked?  I have. I had to drop out of sight, change jobs, move, and change my phone number multiple times to finally get some peace.

And I'm not a public figure.  And I wasn't running away from some crazy wanna-be religion.

[smorbie]

2 hours ago, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

 They might be permitted to, under the umbrella of "acceptable truth."  I believe that's what it's called, it's been a long time since I've read about it.

Basically, you are allowed to lie if it benefits Scientology.

1 hour ago, ketose said:

Katie didn't even make it to the second Batman movie.

I think she was replaced because tiny tommy didn't want her smooching with another man.  That's what I read

Edited September 22, 2017 by smorbie
changed mind about wisdom of comment. Move along.

[DkNNy79]

4 hours ago, italianguy626 said:

Have you been watching the same show we all have? The lengths this cult will go to smash SPs is legendary. Hell, they broke into IRS offices to try to gather dirt on the agency. I don't blame Katie one bit for keeping a low profile.

I have a kid and if there was a possibility that an organization was going to go after my kid, I'm going to be damn sure to do whatever it takes to protect the kid.

I don't get the level of vitriol that is being expressed for Nicole and Katie.

Agreed.  

It's the first hand accounts of abuse from former members that are compelling and have any weight.  

[Chaos Theory]

Katie Holmes was never the best actress in the world.  My interpretation of the relationship between her and Tom was that was part of the attraction at least on Tom's part.   Nicole Kidman is a talented actress who at one point was getting alot of attention and I doubt Tom's ego could handle it.  Katie Holmes at her best is a supporting actress with limited range.   That is perfect for a guy who needs to be the star of the show.   Then again she is smarter then anyone thought she would be.  Maybe not the best actress but smart enough to see the warning signs and get out before her daughter was turned into the second coming of L Ron Hubbard.  

For the record I don't blame Nicole or Katie at all for for keeping their mouths shut about Scientology.  No one should be forced to get into a fight they don't want to be in.  I admire people who do but forcing Nicole and Katie into a battle they don't want to be in is just as bad if not worse then some of the practices of scientology.  No one should be forced into uncomfortable situations.  

[Neurochick]

On September 20, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Auntie Anxiety said:

Katie Holmes may never write a tell-all and even though she isn't a great actress (although I did love her in Dawson's Creek.....what was that? Like a thousand years ago?), she was smart enough to keep Suri safe from those monster cabbages.

When I heard that Katie Holmes is (allegedly) with Jamie Foxx, I laughed and thought; that must piss Tom Cruise off.  Why?  Well, both Cruise and Foxx were in "Collateral" in 2004.  Though Tom Cruise was the star, most critics praised Jamie Foxx's performance; and during that time he was also in "Ray" for which HE won an Oscar.  Does Tom Cruise have an Oscar?  I don't think so.  

Sometimes you don't need to say anything.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Neurochick

[TVbitch]

Just got caught up. I've been waiting for Leah to start naming names. Go Leah! 

[Reppiks2897]

On 9/19/2017 at 9:33 PM, MelissaMinion said:

Oh, MY. Well, Laura Prepon, if you're going to be filmed saying you haven't seen any Scientology info that is detrimental to homosexuality, what does that say about you? 

-Are you just a failed student of Scientology? Because the info is right there....maybe you should go back and re-read? Maybe you missed a word?

-Or, are you just too lazy to look beyond the Celebrity Level Scientology you've been spoon fed?

 

I need to stop now. Her little video clip has gotten me upset.

And she plays a lesbian on Orange is the New Black...  also some of the actors that are in that show are gay, I wonder how they feel about that now knowing how Scientology stands against it.  

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

OK, question for all you helpful PTV'ers out there: when do you think will A&E rerun this episode? And/or, when will it be available thru the On Demand feature???

I missed it on Tuesday night and ambled confidently on over to On Demand---not there. 

I scrolled thru all the LRS&TA episodes scheduled to rerun next Tuesday and sgain---zippo!!!!

Guess it might be available on the website but I really prefer watching on the big screen. Or am I missing it somewhere on teevee?

TIA for any guidance. 

[smorbie]

6 hours ago, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

OK, question for all you helpful PTV'ers out there: when do you think will A&E rerun this episode? And/or, when will it be available thru the On Demand feature???

I missed it on Tuesday night and ambled confidently on over to On Demand---not there. 

I scrolled thru all the LRS&TA episodes scheduled to rerun next Tuesday and sgain---zippo!!!!

Guess it might be available on the website but I really prefer watching on the big screen. Or am I missing it somewhere on teevee?

TIA for any guidance. 

It was on Comcast's On Demand the next day.  I rewatched it.

[msrachelj]

23 hours ago, RichiesOlderBro said:

No way Katie or Nicole can single handedly bring down the billion dollar corporation that Scientology has become. That stuff only happens in the movies. 

 

And what does 'bring down' mean anyhow??

never mind

Edited September 23, 2017 by msrachelj
addition

[laurakaye]

Does anyone think that Leah's show could help blacklist any actors who are members of the Co$?  Or does Hollywood not work that way?  I mean, I would love to never have to see Tom Cruise's manic face on my television screen ever again (currently seeing him every single day in the promo for his new movie).  I suppose Prepon has OITNB going for her, unless they kill off her character.  Just curious if that's even a possibility...it would be amazing if the celebrities the CO$ worked so hard to recruit no longer had the ability to work in their chosen field, thus undermining their "celeb" cred. 

[Auntie Anxiety]

41 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Does anyone think that Leah's show could help blacklist any actors who are members of the Co$?

One would think that the actors who support gay marriage, LGBT causes, etc. would refuse to work with other actors who are in the Co$. Unfortunately, many actors have little self-awareness about how hypocritical they are (Question: How many climate change activitist actors took private jets to the fund-raising event for Hurricane Harvey or scream about global warming while on the air-conditioned red carpet?). If other actors would boycott or blacklist, it would shine a bright light on this crazy cult.

[absnow54]

28 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

One would think that the actors who support gay marriage, LGBT causes, etc. would refuse to work with other actors who are in the Co$

By that logic, they'd be refusing to work with almost everyone who associated with a religious organization. I'm not trying to defend Scientology, but there were a lot more church's on that list supporting Prop 8, and scriptures that can be interpreted as anti-LGBT. I know Scientologists are fickle when it comes to following L. Ron's writings to the letter, but I guess I don't see the difference between a Christian saying they support LGBT causes and a Scientologists saying it, when the books they believe in say equally bad things.

[DkNNy79]

49 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

One would think that the actors who support gay marriage, LGBT causes, etc. would refuse to work with other actors who are in the Co$. Unfortunately, many actors have little self-awareness about how hypocritical they are (Question: How many climate change activitist actors took private jets to the fund-raising event for Hurricane Harvey or scream about global warming while on the air-conditioned red carpet?). If other actors would boycott or blacklist, it would shine a bright light on this crazy cult.

Agreed.  They are not so noble.  Look at all the actors who work with Woody Allen.

[Auntie Anxiety]

2 hours ago, absnow54 said:

By that logic, they'd be refusing to work with almost everyone who associated with a religious organization. I'm not trying to defend Scientology, but there were a lot more church's on that list supporting Prop 8, and scriptures that can be interpreted as anti-LGBT. I know Scientologists are fickle when it comes to following L. Ron's writings to the letter, but I guess I don't see the difference between a Christian saying they support LGBT causes and a Scientologists saying it, when the books they believe in say equally bad things.

Yeah, I know it gets complicated and I knew it when I posted the comment. Just in my own mind, I make a distinction between religions and cults. I also make a distinction between people who are willing to admit that they don't buy all of a religion's tenets and those who refuse to even acknowledge that their cult doesn't think gays or lesbians deserve to exist and that that person is to "blame" for having certain sexual preferences. Just my opinion. 

From watching the program and the testimonials, apparently when you're knee deep in it, you don't think about all the nastiness. Nice to see that members have epiphanies and begin to question the lunacy.

[AZChristian]

Actors are like a large segment of humanity (sadly):  They are willing to compromise their beliefs in the name of a paycheck.  

"Yes, I'm VERY concerned about global warming.  Oh, you're going to pay me to appear at a political rally to support encouraging people to 'Go Green'?  And you'll send a private jet?  Awesome.  What time shall I drive my Hummer to the airport to catch the plane?"

[kieyra]

Actors are also very skilled at marketing, i.e., acting.