S08.E09: Playing Family Picnic

[lezlers]

55 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I am not seeing where anyone mentioned it being normal or good parenting. We don't know what happened behind closed doors. We don't know how Randy and his wife reacted to the situation. Not everyone has to display their anger for years, and in public in order to show they are upset at situations their children created. We don't know what they said to their daughters or how they chose to handle it. 

We may not have been desperate to want to become pregnant. Some girls and even some guys do at a young age. How I made choices as a young person, I can't put on someone else. Besides, it was just my assessment of what I think happened to these girls. I certainly don't know if they were all desperate. Heck, I don't even know what their relationships were like with the fathers of their babies. I can only form an opinion on Chelsea because of what I have viewed on this show. 

I must've misread the couple of posts I was responding to.  They seemed to think my statement that "3 out of 4 daughters ending up pregnant as teens = you're doing something" wrong was incorrect, like it's just something that could happen despite having involved, caring, observant, proactive parents.  I stand by my statement that it doesn't.  

Edited September 9, 2017 by lezlers

[SPLAIN]

44 minutes ago, TeenMomAngerMgmt said:

Throw me in on team "Jenelle is the worst". Because she is literally the worst. Also Brittany is great and I'm kinda here for her snark.

Add me to the group.

Can someone here clarify where is this information about Chelsea's sisters and at what age they became pregnant? Were they in long-term relationships? Were they one-night stands? I must have missed all of this along the way.

[Scarlett45]

29 minutes ago, SPLAIN said:

Add me to the group.

Can someone here clarify where is this information about Chelsea's sisters and at what age they became pregnant? Were they in long-term relationships? Were they one-night stands? I must have missed all of this along the way.

Her eldest sister became pregnant in college (and did finish I think she was 21 or so) by a guy that's now her husband. Her other sisters became pregnant at 18/19years old and one is married The other is a single Mom still I believe. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Scarlett45

[SPLAIN]

44 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Her eldest sister became pregnant in college (and did finish I think she was 21 or so) by a guy that's now her husband. Her other sisters became pregnant at 18/19years old and one is married The other is a single Mom still I believe. 

Thanks Scarlett.

Geez. I was expecting to read all of them had become pregnant at the tender ages of 13, 14 or even 16. They were all adults with the exception of Chelsea. Are they supposed to be married first before having intercourse? I am surely not bothered in the least that they were not married before having children. I don't believe marriage is required. I am lost as to what it was two parents are supposed to do when they have adult children who are of legal age to do whatever it is they want. It sounds like with the exception of Chelsea and the one sibling, the others were in relationships. People do have sex. People who plan to be committed down the road do tend to have sex and they may not always use protection because the trust, faith, and love already exists. I'd be pretty damn upset if my parents had tried to get me to be on birth control when I was a legal adult. That is my damn business! 

As for Chelsea, even though she was a minor at the time, her body is her body and if she chose to be on birth control pills instead of something else, that is her business as well. To be honest, I don't remember what form of BC she used. Chelsea has mentioned having severe issues with her periods. That may have played a part in what kind of birth control she used. When I was a teen and I was taken to get birth control, I was given the options of what I wanted. The doctor didn't ask my mom what I wanted. He asked ME. He proceeded to inform my parent of my choice and she was okay with it. My parent did ask about the side effects of the various birth control options, but overall, she felt whatever I wanted was my choice. This was back in the ancient days.

Edited September 9, 2017 by SPLAIN

[Scarlett45]

15 minutes ago, SPLAIN said:

Thanks Scarlett.

Geez. I was expecting to read all of them had become pregnant at the tender ages of 13, 14 or even 16. They were all adults with the exception of Chelsea. Are they supposed to be married first before having intercourse? I am surely not bothered in the least that they were not married before having children. I don't believe marriage is required. I am lost as to what it was two parents are supposed to do when they have adult children who are of legal age to do whatever it is they want. It sounds like with the exception of Chelsea and the one sibling, the others were in relationships. People do have sex. People who plan to be committed down the road do tend to have sex and they may not always use protection because the trust, faith, and love already exists. I'd be pretty damn upset if my parents had tried to get me to be on birth control when I was a legal adult. That is my damn business! 

I have my own opinions on when people are actual adults compared to legal adults. I know when I was living off of Mommy's dime and she was paying my tuition throughout college it was MY responsibility to use contraceptives effectively, relationship or no relationship (I'm childfree and never wanted kids anyway so she wasn't terribly concerned about that). I don't think being in a relationship makes it better, most relationships end, the biological and cultural reality is that as women the consequences of parenthood fall on them- relationship or not. 

I don't think Randy and Mary were horrible awful parents, or unloving or negligent but SOME type of attitude that doesn't jive with what people would expect from a white collar middle America family about sexuality, parenthood, and professional/career goals was present in that home for all four girls to be parents before they were old enough to buy liquor in the 21st century- not as if we were living in the 1930s or something.  I think that's what shocks people.

 

P.S. Chelsea was 17 when she became pregnant with Aubree and 18 when Aubree was born. Im not shocked or surprised that someone 17/18/19 wishes to engage in partnered sex but that doesn't make you mature or resourceful enough to be a parent in our cultural and economic structure. JMO  

Edited September 9, 2017 by Scarlett45

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, lezlers said:

  I stand by my assertion that 3 out of 4 daughters getting pregnant as teenagers = you're doing something wrong.  

Yeah, that's a pretty big parenting fail. No matter which way you try to spin, it's pretty tacky to have four daughters giving birth out of wedlock before the age of 21. Aubree has no father, Chelsea's niece had no father to take her to the dance, so I'm not getting a "stand-up guy" vibe or the impression that most of these children were the products of serious relationships. That's a whole lot of bad decision making concentrated in one family.

Edited September 9, 2017 by BitterApple

[SPLAIN]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I have my own opinions on when people are actual adults compared to legal adults. I know when I was living off of Mommy's dime and she was paying my tuition throughout college it was MY responsibility to use contraceptives effectively, relationship or no relationship (I'm childfree and never wanted kids anyway so she wasn't terribly concerned about that). I don't think being in a relationship makes it better, most relationships end, the biological and cultural reality is that as women the consequences of parenthood fall on them- relationship or not. 

I don't think Randy and Mary were horrible awful parents, or unloving or negligent but SOME type of attitude that doesn't jive with what people would expect from a white collar middle America family about sexuality, parenthood, and professional/career goals was present in that home for all four girls to be parents before they were old enough to buy liquor in the 21st century- not as if we were living in the 1930s or something.  I think that's what shocks people.

 

P.S. Chelsea was 17 when she became pregnant with Aubree and 18 when Aubree was born. Im not shocked or surprised that someone 17/18/19 wishes to engage in partnered sex but that doesn't make you mature or resourceful enough to be a parent in our cultural and economic structure. JMO  

Of course. That is a whole other topic that can be discussed in length if we had more information on the rest of the girls.  I just don't know much about the rest of the siblings to even go to that length of a discussion. It is just fragments. In technical terms, these girls were adults. Chelsea, the one on the show, was not an adult. I also don't believe it is a black and white issue where the parents are automatically at fault if females in one family all have children before the age of 21. It is just too convoluted. The whole wedlock thing, I am not on board with that kind of thinking.

Edited September 9, 2017 by SPLAIN

[Scarlett45]

I agree with you on the "wedlock" thing. Look at Leah- two marriages under her belt for what? And at 25? Look at Kailyn- 3 baby daddies and a divorce. Can these girls calm down, for a hot minute? You don't have to procreate with or marry every dude who's penis tickles your g-spot. 

[zenme]

Watson looks like Randy, and oddly enough it was most evident when  Chelsea was asking him if he was pooping. 

Is Starbuck's an official sponsor of Teen Mom. Every episode features at least 2 segments featuring a Mom with Starbuck's cup in hand.

[lezlers]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Her eldest sister became pregnant in college (and did finish I think she was 21 or so) by a guy that's now her husband. Her other sisters became pregnant at 18/19years old and one is married The other is a single Mom still I believe. 

Ohhhh, I didn't know that.  I thought they all got pregnant at Chelsea's age when she got pregnant with Aubree.  I stand corrected.

[CofCinci]

19 minutes ago, zenme said:

Watson looks like Randy, and oddly enough it was most evident when  Chelsea was asking him if he was pooping. 

Is Starbuck's an official sponsor of Teen Mom. Every episode features at least 2 segments featuring a Mom with Starbuck's cup in hand.

They must be a sponsor/paid placement otherwise the logo would be blurred or covered. 

[HeySandyStrange]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I agree with you on the "wedlock" thing. Look at Leah- two marriages under her belt for what? And at 25? Look at Kailyn- 3 baby daddies and a divorce. Can these girls calm down, for a hot minute? You don't have to procreate with or marry every dude who's penis tickles your g-spot. 

LOL funny, this makes me think about what I've been learning in Human Sexuality about mating selection and how we women have developed ,since cavemen times, an evolutionary laundry lists of traits we search for in the best mate before we go through the hard process of letting them impregnate us. It's like evolution failed these chicks. Fuck, our Neandrethal ancestor's  probably thought harder then some of these TMs about the men that would be their partners and babies' fathers.  They just rush into marriage and/or pop out babies with no thought given to compatibility, long term prospects for said relationship, or whether the dude shows any interest in devoting himself to his partner or children.

Edited September 9, 2017 by HeySandyStrange

[lezlers]

16 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

Thanks Scarlett.

Geez. I was expecting to read all of them had become pregnant at the tender ages of 13, 14 or even 16. They were all adults with the exception of Chelsea. Are they supposed to be married first before having intercourse? I am surely not bothered in the least that they were not married before having children. I don't believe marriage is required. I am lost as to what it was two parents are supposed to do when they have adult children who are of legal age to do whatever it is they want. It sounds like with the exception of Chelsea and the one sibling, the others were in relationships. People do have sex. People who plan to be committed down the road do tend to have sex and they may not always use protection because the trust, faith, and love already exists. I'd be pretty damn upset if my parents had tried to get me to be on birth control when I was a legal adult. That is my damn business! 

As for Chelsea, even though she was a minor at the time, her body is her body and if she chose to be on birth control pills instead of something else, that is her business as well. To be honest, I don't remember what form of BC she used. Chelsea has mentioned having severe issues with her periods. That may have played a part in what kind of birth control she used. When I was a teen and I was taken to get birth control, I was given the options of what I wanted. The doctor didn't ask my mom what I wanted. He asked ME. He proceeded to inform my parent of my choice and she was okay with it. My parent did ask about the side effects of the various birth control options, but overall, she felt whatever I wanted was my choice. This was back in the ancient days.

Eh, agree to disagree.  When I was 18 I might have been a legal "adult" but I sure as hell wasn't mature enough to become a mother. Neither were any other 18 year olds I knew.  Hell, your brain is still developing at that age! There's nothing wrong with having sex, but having sex is not the same as having protected sex.  And that's awesome that mom let you pick what kind of birth control you wanted to be on as a teenager.  I'm guessing you were probably a mature and responsible young adult. I love me some Chelsea, but the girl was a dingbat when she got pregnant (as most teenage girls are.)  I was a dingbat at that age, too.  If you're willing to risk it with your kids, that's great.   When my daughter becomes sexually active, however?  If she's living under my roof and is still in high school, she's going to be on semi-permanent birth control.  Of course I'll try to get her to agree to it on her own, first (I plan on telling her how horrific being pregnant is, vs how hard having a baby is.  I think that's better intervention.  OR maybe hire her out to babysit a small infant who wakes up every two hours for a night.  That'd probably be effective) but if she's still not biting, more drastic measures might have to be taken (although I doubt a doctor would actually do that without the actual patient's consent.  I'm just referring to my made up reality in my head.)  I'm not willing to risk my daughter making her life 500% harder in order to be the "cool" mom.  

[BitterApple]

51 minutes ago, lezlers said:

 I think that's better intervention.  OR maybe hire her out to babysit a small infant who wakes up every two hours for a night.  

When my niece was in high school she worked afternoons as a teacher's assistant at a daycare. Two years of changing diapers and cleaning up puke was all the motivation she needed to put college, career and friends ahead of motherhood. She learned very quickly there's a whole other side to child rearing besides dressing babies in cute outfits and parading them around.

Edited September 9, 2017 by BitterApple

[lilmarysunshine]

52 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Eh, agree to disagree.  When I was 18 I might have been a legal "adult" but I sure as hell wasn't mature enough to become a mother. Neither were any other 18 year olds I knew.  Hell, your brain is still developing at that age! There's nothing wrong with having sex, but having sex is not the same as having protected sex.  And that's awesome that mom let you pick what kind of birth control you wanted to be on as a teenager.  I'm guessing you were probably a mature and responsible young adult. I love me some Chelsea, but the girl was a dingbat when she got pregnant (as most teenage girls are.)  I was a dingbat at that age, too.  If you're willing to risk it with your kids, that's great.   When my daughter becomes sexually active, however?  If she's living under my roof and is still in high school, she's going to be on semi-permanent birth control.  Of course I'll try to get her to agree to it on her own, first (I plan on telling her how horrific being pregnant is, vs how hard having a baby is.  I think that's better intervention.  OR maybe hire her out to babysit a small infant who wakes up every two hours for a night.  That'd probably be effective) but if she's still not biting, more drastic measures might have to be taken (although I doubt a doctor would actually do that without the actual patient's consent.  I'm just referring to my made up reality in my head.)  I'm not willing to risk my daughter making her life 500% harder in order to be the "cool" mom.  

Probably all of them were on Randy's health insurance so, yeah ..... hardly ready for parenthood, imo.

[lezlers]

19 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I agree with you on the "wedlock" thing. Look at Leah- two marriages under her belt for what? And at 25? Look at Kailyn- 3 baby daddies and a divorce. Can these girls calm down, for a hot minute? You don't have to procreate with or marry every dude who's penis tickles your g-spot. 

It's the "parting gift" syndrome.  Some of these girls seem to think every relationship needs a "parting gift" in the form of a tiny human.

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

When my niece was in high school she worked afternoons as a teacher's assistant at a daycare. Two years of changing diapers and cleaning up puke was all the motivation she needed to put college, career and friends ahead of motherhood. She learned very quickly there's a whole other side to child rearing besides dressing babies in cute outfits and parading them around.

Right?  I had my first child when I was 34.  It was hard as hell and I was/am happily married, with a professional job and comfortable income.  I couldn't even imagine doing it in my late teens/early twenties, either on my own or with an uninvolved partner, struggling to make ends meet.  It would have been an absolute nightmare.  I will do every last thing in my power to avoid my daughter going through that, I don't care if she hates me for it.  She'll thank me eventually.  

[GreatKazu]

Have a gay child. That worked for me. 

[Sprockets]

15 minutes ago, lezlers said:

I couldn't even imagine doing it in my late teens/early twenties, either on my own or with an uninvolved partner, struggling to make ends meet. 

That would be a nightmare, but none of these girls has had to do that.  They all have the TM money, and most of them - all except Kail? - have a family support network.  And Kail had Jo, who was always involved, even when she was horrible to him.  

[lezlers]

2 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Have a gay child. That worked for me. 

I read that as I was sitting across the table from my boy and girl.  I instantly looked at them and wondered "which would I prefer to be gay?"  I can't decide....

[Scarlett45]

14 hours ago, lezlers said:

I read that as I was sitting across the table from my boy and girl.  I instantly looked at them and wondered "which would I prefer to be gay?"  I can't decide....

I vote boy. 1. Women who don't want to engage in an heteronormative lifestyle have it harder, sexism is still a thing and men (gay or not) have more leeway to do what they want. 2. Women are still the ones that have to gestate and give birth, we are always going to be more diligent about contraceptives because we suffer the most physical, financial and emotional consequences of becoming a parent (on average- of course there are exceptions to everything). 

 

So I vote boy. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by Scarlett45

[Rebecca]

On 9/7/2017 at 9:56 AM, crazychicken said:

Considering Angie just became a grandmother at age 36 I suspect she lead the charge on teen pregnancy or was pretty close herself.

Yikes. Great grandma between ages 50-55 I'm guessing too. I think the area in which they live plays a major role in the fact all of the Houska sisters had children as teens or close to it. I'm from the Midwest and I had several friends/classmates (at a private school) get pregnant in high school. It was across all sorts of socioeconomic levels and family structures. Girls in two parent households, where the parents held prestigious jobs and had advanced degrees, girls who came from single parent families on food stamps and a combo of those scenarios alike. Some were forced to marry to "rectify" the "mistake" and you can guess how well that worked. I don't know of any family that had 3/4 daughters become pregnant at such an early age, however.

On 9/7/2017 at 11:18 AM, GreatKazu said:

Apparently, Jenelle's abusive father is blameless. 

It really makes me sick how his role, or lack thereof, constantly gets overlooked. I guess it's easy to just blame the parent (Barb) that stuck around. 

On 9/7/2017 at 11:26 AM, BitterApple said:

Regarding the shower, I thought it was hilarious how Brianna said ON CAMERA that the only reason they were having it was for the presents. I'm sure that made their family feel just wonderful. 

Hopefully they already knew she was a whiny, rude, demanding asshole and they only came to try and get their piece of the pie by being in tv.

On 9/7/2017 at 11:28 AM, DangerousMinds said:

IMHO, Jenelle is a sociopath, and Barb is not, job or no job.

This. Jenelle's father sounds like one as well with his callous comments and behavior. It can be genetic. If Barb was like Jenelle, Barb's three grandchildren would be in foster homes right now instead of being raised by Barb. There is no comparison, imo.

 

On 9/8/2017 at 10:16 AM, Uncle JUICE said:

Again I'm not watching any of this stuff, so I could be wrong, but something just occurred to me. Won't the reunion show this year be REALLY weird because of this literal fifth wheel? She's the only ne who's not making any real money, whose situation has not markedly improved, who hasn't had a ton of surgeries, who isn't hawking products...not to mention she doesn't have the same tattoo as everyone else. It seems like it'll be almost awkward enough for me to watch. 

Oh she has, can't you tell? That ass ain't real. She had a bunch of surgeries recorded and aired just like Kailyn, with the same doctor. I believe she even had a "labiaplasty" ?. I think she's had the second most surgeries after Kailyn on this show, maybe more. She's also been on at least one other reality show aside from TM3.

EDIT TO ADD: She already has plans to have even more procedures done now that she had Stella. What is the point if she's so careless about getting pregnant right after? She wants ANOTHER labiaplasty. 

https://www.google.com/amp/hollywoodlife.com/2017/07/20/briana-dejesus-plastic-surgery-post-baby-body-teen-mom-dr-miami/amp/

On 9/8/2017 at 0:55 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I don't think they HAD to relay on WIC and Food Stamps when Nova was born. I think as an unemployed single mother Brianna qualified for them so she got them. If they hadn't veen available I don't think Nova would've lacked for any of the things she currently has (nor do I think the family would've struggled to put food on the table although things would've been tighter). 

Exactly what I was thinking. I don't think there's any proof either way but I have always assumed that Chelsea received assistance like food stamps before she had the MTV income even though Randy could've provided for all her needs (and did for other things). I know a lot of the girls I previously mentioned did so. (I'm extremely liberal and not judging. It is what it is.)

Edited September 10, 2017 by Rebecca

[ReadMeLattice]

 The simple fact that abortions are not really an option among Houska circles probably plays a role in girls from their backgrounds getting and staying pregnant. Some people even believe using plan B is wrong, or it could be hard to obtain. I was raised to believe that birth control was mandatory and if it failed, to use plan B, and if that failed, abortion or adoption. Raising the baby myself would have been the radical thing to do if I had been 18-24 and unmarried, much less 16. My parents and teachers would have been horrified. In their circles, birth control is probably not discussed as frequently and openly and abortion or, to a lesser extent, adoption would be the more radical, nonconformist thing to do. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by Lm2162

[DangerousMinds]

Abortions not an option, but everyone is having premarital sex.

[lezlers]

2 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

 The simple fact that abortions are not really an option among Houska circles probably plays a role in girls from their backgrounds getting and staying pregnant. Some people even believe using plan B is wrong, or it could be hard to obtain. I was raised to believe that birth control was mandatory and if it failed, to use plan B, and if that failed, abortion or adoption. Raising the baby myself would have been the radical thing to do if I had been 18-24 and unmarried, much less 16. My parents and teachers would have been horrified. In their circles, birth control is probably not discussed as frequently and openly and abortion or, to a lesser extent, adoption would be the more radical, nonconformist thing to do. 

This is a good point.  I was born and raised in California where it's somewhat unusual to start having babies super young.  My brother, however, lives in Tucson, Arizona.  I was pretty shocked seeing just how many very young mothers lived out there.  When I went out for the birth of my nephew at age 24, I was pretty much considered a spinster for being unmarried and childless.  It was strange.  I remember talking to one girl from Sacramento who just moved there who didn't have kids.  I think she was MAYBE 20.  When I went back to visit a year later she had a baby.  Of course.  

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

 The simple fact that abortions are not really an option among Houska circles probably plays a role in girls from their backgrounds getting and staying pregnant. Some people even believe using plan B is wrong, or it could be hard to obtain. I was raised to believe that birth control was mandatory and if it failed, to use plan B, and if that failed, abortion or adoption. Raising the baby myself would have been the radical thing to do if I had been 18-24 and unmarried, much less 16. My parents and teachers would have been horrified. In their circles, birth control is probably not discussed as frequently and openly and abortion or, to a lesser extent, adoption would be the more radical, nonconformist thing to do. 

I agree. A lot of women have abortions- I am strongly pro-choice, but of course I understand why women may not want to discuss if they have had one, 1st off its no one else's business, and 2ndly there are crazies out there who will harass you for being a "baby killer". 16&Pregnant did one special on young girls that chose abortion and they got 3 girls to volunteer, one who was already a Mom and featured on 16&PREGNANT but decided another child wouldn't be good for their family (she and the dad were living together and raising the child together). 

In Chelsea's 16&PREGNANT she did discuss the option of adoption and Randy said that she had a strong enough family and support system that it wasn't necessary. I wasn't getting the impression that he was knocking adoption, but that it was for girls who had NO parents, no help, or their family was struggling to put food on the table and keeping the baby would mean others wouldn't have the things they needed. Chelsea being mature enough to parent or having other dreams/goals wasn't a consideration.

@DangerousMinds- YUP.....

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, lezlers said:

This is a good point.  I was born and raised in California where it's somewhat unusual to start having babies super young.  My brother, however, lives in Tucson, Arizona.  I was pretty shocked seeing just how many very young mothers lived out there.  When I went out for the birth of my nephew at age 24, I was pretty much considered a spinster for being unmarried and childless.  It was strange.  I remember talking to one girl from Sacramento who just moved there who didn't have kids.  I think she was MAYBE 20.  When I went back to visit a year later she had a baby.  Of course.  

It's like that here in Vegas as well. I know girls who are 25 and already on second marriages. I grew up in Boston where most people don't even start to think about marriage until their late 20s/early 30s, so it was a huge culture shock for me. 

[guilfoyleatpp]

1 hour ago, lezlers said:

This is a good point.  I was born and raised in California where it's somewhat unusual to start having babies super young.  My brother, however, lives in Tucson, Arizona.  I was pretty shocked seeing just how many very young mothers lived out there.  When I went out for the birth of my nephew at age 24, I was pretty much considered a spinster for being unmarried and childless.  It was strange.  I remember talking to one girl from Sacramento who just moved there who didn't have kids.  I think she was MAYBE 20.  When I went back to visit a year later she had a baby.  Of course.  

 

3 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

It's like that here in Vegas as well. I know girls who are 25 and already on second marriages. I grew up in Boston where most people don't even start to think about marriage until their late 20s/early 30s, so it was a huge culture shock for me. 

Same. Moved to Portland from the Bay Area last year. I'm old as fuck and had my first at 40. I went from being among 35+ moms to being around 20 something moms. It's fucking weird. Oh, also, girls get "promise rings" at 14 (per the other kids in the neighborhood) if they've been "dating" their boyfriends for 18 months or more.

My parents wouldn't let me go on dates until I was 16. That was in the 80s.

[Christina87]

15 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I vote boy. 1. Women who don't want to engage in an heteronormative lifestyle have it harder, sexism is still a thing and men (gay or not) have more leeway to do what they want. 2. Women are still the ones that have to gestate and give birth, we are always going to be more diligent about contraceptives because we suffer the most physical, financial and emotional consequences of becoming a parent (on average- of course there are exceptions to everything). 

 

So I vote boy. 

Plus gay guys are so much fun! ? for some reason in college, the gay guys in my choir loved me. I loved them too!!! They threw me a "gay birthday party" where I got to be the "queen among the queens." Ahhhhhh I miss them so much! 

People in my area (and I come from a small, conservative, southern town) usually don't get married or have children until their late twenties. I just can't imagine a scenario where most of my high school friends were popping out babies and hoping to move in with the father after graduation to be supported. That is absolutely not the culture here! I'm 29 and not married, and while sometimes I do feel like the last spinster on earth, the reality is that many girls I went to school with still aren't married, and probably at least 50% of the boys. In fact, many of the girls I went to high school with were virgins at graduation, including myself, and including most of the popular girls. I don't think most people were waiting until MARRIAGE per say, but most at least wanted to wait until a serious college or early 20's relationship. I feel that when we did start having sex, it was easier to handle than it would have been at sixteen. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by Christina87

[jacksgirl]

Late to the party. Jenelle and UBT need a swear jar. Five bucks for every f bomb. 

[MargeGunderson]

7 minutes ago, jacksgirl said:

Late to the party. Jenelle and UBT need a swear jar. Five bucks for every f bomb. 

To pay for the inevitable therapy those kids are going to need.

Edited September 10, 2017 by MargeGunderson

[Sprockets]

1 hour ago, jacksgirl said:

 

Late to the party. Jenelle and UBT need a swear jar. Five bucks for every f bomb. 

 

The words they use are the least of their problems.  

[GreatKazu]

The words they use are a big part of their problems. Their words are directed at those poor children. It can be piercing to their soul. Being called a "fucking f*ggot" or "fucking queer" by UBT is vile, homophobic, and can scar those boys for life. Plus, any slur he directs at those children are words that will be carried on to other children, and later in life at other adults. Even  "fucking stupid" bothers me tremendously when said in the presence of children. I can see Jace calling out boys for dressing a certain way and saying they are f*ggots or queers. 

It isn't as if Jenelle and UBT are having these adult conversations about the state of our country, our government or even problems that are plaguing them at home where they are using curse words as a way to express themselves or just to vent in the privacy of their bedroom or away from the kids, as many parents sometimes do. Those two talk like that all.the.time.  No toddler needs to pick up on that language (as Doris has declared in her legal documents) and use those words elsewhere. Every time they feel angry or upset, they will resort to using that language because that is what Jenelle and UBT resort to anytime they are angry, and they are angry a lot. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Sprockets]

13 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Every time they feel angry or upset, they will resort to using that language because that is what Jenelle and UBT resort to anytime they are angry, and they are angry a lot. 

Maybe.  I think it's important to differentiate between the simple use of a particular word and actual verbal abuse.  

Verbal abuse is never acceptable.  

I do think it is a bit precious to get upset about the mere use of this one word, though.  Even to the extent of paying a fine, as was suggested???  Surely adults can use whatever language they choose in their own homes.  It's just a word.  And no, kids are not allowed to use it, just like they aren't allowed to drive or use the stove.  

[GreatKazu]

No doubt verbal abuse is being used towards those children. Nothing will get me to believe otherwise.

[Sprockets]

3 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

 

No doubt verbal abuse is being used towards those children. Nothing will get me to believe otherwise.

 

I'm sure you're right.  

[Rebecca]

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

No doubt verbal abuse is being used towards those children. Nothing will get me to believe otherwise.

"Fucking Kaiser is fucking crying again! Shut up you stupid, sissy fucking faggot with a queer for a dad. Do you want your fucking nose put in the fucking corner again? I should beat your fucking ass for being such a whiny fucking bitch!" *

Yeah...the words are just meaningless and don't cause further harm. ? 

*Not a real quote but I'm betting it's not far off when the cameras aren't there. We've heard them say variations of all of that. Ugh. Please let Nathan's mom get custody!!!!

Edited September 10, 2017 by Rebecca

[SPLAIN]

3 hours ago, Sprockets said:

I do think it is a bit precious to get upset about the mere use of this one word, though.  Even to the extent of paying a fine, as was suggested???  Surely adults can use whatever language they choose in their own homes.  It's just a word.  And no, kids are not allowed to use it, just like they aren't allowed to drive or use the stove.  

I think the poster was just being snarky and a bit facetious about the swear jar. Sometimes humor is interjected around these parts particularly when discussing serious matters. As for it just being a word, it is depending on the circumstances and the context in which it is being used.  When it comes to Jenelle and UBT, it seems to be a word that is used under many circumstances and it is thrown out there with such ease, that I find it uncomfortable knowing how often it is used when the cameras are not there and when their children are not behaving in a perfect manner. I see how easily frustrated Jenelle and UBT get  when it comes to dealing with the children and the times they act up. @Rebecca's post is a perfect example of what I am trying to convey. I know that is exactly what is happening in the Eason house with those kids. 

Those kids won't know not to use those crude words because the parents say those words frequently and constantly. Pretty soon, Jace, Maryssa, Kaiser will be saying those words when they get mad, frustrated, impatient, or sad.

ETA: I just remembered a scene where Jenelle was talking to Jace because he was using swear words at school. A very eye-rolling scene as the person who uses swear words all the time in front of her kids, is telling her kid he shouldn't be cussing.

 

Quote

Maybe.  I think it's important to differentiate between the simple use of a particular word and actual verbal abuse.  

That would be fine in a normal situation or a normal family home. However, David and Jenelle's abode is far from normal and their use of cuss words is inappropriate under most circumstances and IMO it is not about differentiating as much as pointing out the obvious which is, two so-called adults are talking and yelling while using crude and profane language in the company of children and surely are using that same language at the children. 

Edited September 11, 2017 by SPLAIN

[AmyFarrahFowler]

On 9/6/2017 at 1:02 PM, lezlers said:

That's what I kept thinking.  I was unaware that Jenelle suffers from a condition that renders her unable to leave her home without David being attached to her.  I can't even imagine how my husband would react if he was working on something for the house and I was just sitting on the stoop bitching about being "bored, dude!"  I'd probably be getting a divorce right now. She did the same thing with picking up the keys to the rental.  Following David around because she wanted to pick up the keys when he was trying to move stuff and TELLING her to just go get them.  David is a total psycho but Jenelle is fucking exhaustingly codependent.  You're bored?  TAKE YOUR FUCKING KIDS AND GO SOMEWHERE THEN!  Gah.  I can't with her.

My fantasy is that she would call Barb on this day and suggest they get together and take the kids to the park. Does she even know how far that would go in Barb's heart and attitude? It might also enrage UBT so I guess we'll scratch that.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On 9/10/2017 at 10:40 AM, guilfoyleatpp said:

 

Same. Moved to Portland from the Bay Area last year. I'm old as fuck and had my first at 40. I went from being among 35+ moms to being around 20 something moms. It's fucking weird. Oh, also, girls get "promise rings" at 14 (per the other kids in the neighborhood) if they've been "dating" their boyfriends for 18 months or more.

My parents wouldn't let me go on dates until I was 16. That was in the 80s.

Yeah....I had my first at 31 and second at 33...and I'm an "old" mom in my little area....they all had babies mid-20s or earlier for the most part. Some grandmas that pick up their grandkids from time to time at my kiddos' daycare are only a couple of years older than me. 

It's crazy how different areas have different "norms" when it comes to the age when women have kids, and that often, these norms can exist among the area's different socioeconomic groups (like Chelsea's family). I think it's important to remember the geographic cultural norms Chelsea and her sisters grew up around (even if they weren't all modeled by her dentist-father) definitely influenced things. 

[FozzyBear]

On 9/7/2017 at 6:06 PM, GreatKazu said:

Or these girls were desperate to keep the guy and did a Kail - trap babies. I have always felt Chelsea wanted a baby as a way to get Adumb to commit to her. They could have been given all the talks in the world, but if they were wanting to keep a guy, nothing matters. 

I don't think Chelsea got pregnant on purpose, but I do think she had unprotected sex to keep Adam happy.

[Scarlett45]

42 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

I don't think Chelsea got pregnant on purpose, but I do think she had unprotected sex to keep Adam happy.

I kind of don't agree. I think Chelsea didn't MIND if she got pregnant. She wasn't driven to work or go to college and she had a lot of fantasies of having a "family". 

If she was interested in not being pregnant she would've used some type of contraception without consulting Adam. I can believe the "no condom to keep the guy happy", but that doesn't explain not using a hormonal method.