S07.E03: The Queen's Justice

[Tikichick]

30 minutes ago, WebosFritos said:

Does Dany even know much about maesters? She grew up in Essos and probably learned her Westerosi history from Viserys, who definitely wasn't the best teacher. She said herself that she didn't really receive a "formal education". In her first meeting with Jon she sounded like her family had just been on a holiday and Westeros should welcome her back. For the people who are around Dany's age or younger, the Targaryens are a part of history. On the other hand, the War of the five Kings is real to them and has had big consequences on their lives for the last few years. She can't just ignore the fact that Westeros is not the same place anymore. She needs allies and Jon, as a member of an ancient house that has been ruling the North one way or another for thousands of years, is an important ally for her. He grew up in Westeros and she needs him on his side. She invited him knowing he had stories to tell about what he had seen beyond the Wall but she antagonized him as soon as he got in. She told Tyrion that Jon had refused to call her Queen yet she was the one who kept calling him "my lord" while Jon referred to her as "your grace". She told Jon he was in open rebellion of her Throne but she hadn't even set foot in Westeros when he was named King in the North. It's absurd to think he would give up his title just because an unproven Targaryen has come back.

Did Tyrion seriously think Jon would bend the knee? He knows what has happened to the Starks, he has met Ned, Cat, Robb, Jon and Bran, he got to spend a lot of time with Sansa and he knows they're a proud and stubborn family. He couldn't seriously believe they would let bygones be bygones, could he? Dany desperately needs new advisors. She can't just count on Varys and Tyrion.

But Tyrion knows having a maester is the way of life there.

Did she have any inkling Jon would have stories from beyond the Wall, or even any real interest?  I think her focus is distinctly southern at the moment, with the North only a means to an end.

[YaddaYadda]

Would the Citadel send her a maester though? 

[GrailKing]

35 minutes ago, WebosFritos said:

Did Tyrion seriously think Jon would bend the knee? He knows what has happened to the Starks, he has met Ned, Cat, Robb, Jon and Bran, he got to spend a lot of time with Sansa and he knows they're a proud and stubborn family. He couldn't seriously believe they would let bygones be bygones, could he? Dany desperately needs new advisors. She can't just count on Varys and Tyrion.

By the wording of the letter he sent Jon, I'm sure Tyrion wouldn't expect Jon to bend the knee; and after the small banter about Sansa and seeing Davos, I'm also sure he feels Jon has competent advisers.

[Macbeth]

29 minutes ago, WebosFritos said:

Did Tyrion seriously think Jon would bend the knee? He knows what has happened to the Starks, he has met Ned, Cat, Robb, Jon and Bran, he got to spend a lot of time with Sansa and he knows they're a proud and stubborn family. He couldn't seriously believe they would let bygones be bygones, could he? Dany desperately needs new advisors. She can't just count on Varys and Tyrion.

Tyrion didn't expect Jon to bend the knee.  That's why his message to Jon requesting his presence didn't include the order that he would need to bend the knee as Dany had requested.  Tyrion knew that if that was in the message Jon wouldn't come. 

He knew enough about Jon that he could foresee that he could become an ally.  He just wanted to get Dany to meet Jon. He cautioned both of him.  He told Jon he can't expect troops to assist him based on one meeting, and he told Dany that they are courting Jon with the dragon glass to become another ally.

Tyrion and Varys are really good at making alliances and keeping the peace.  Tyrion has proven just because he won one battle that doesn't make him a war-time consiglieri. 

You know Grey Worm is cursing Tyrion's name as he is now stuck at Casterly Rock surrounded by enemies.  "I knew not to listen to that piece of shit."  If Grey Worm survives - as he is a general - he should be the war-time consiglieri.

[Drogo]

43 minutes ago, WebosFritos said:

Dany desperately needs new advisors. She can't just count on Varys and Tyrion.

Luckily this guy's all better.  She could use this advice now.

[GrailKing]

After seeing this season so far, I sort of see the bittersweet for the Starks:

Sansa more likely Lady of Winterfell and or QITN, yet her family she yearned for and managed to get back home, are so changed Jon Walking Dead, Bran spaced out and Arya can't settle down still trying to find herself; Sansa  and the siblings will  be or feel alone.

 

 

Sad : (

8 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Luckily this guy's all better.  She could use this advice now.

He's from the NORTH  !

[Macbeth]

11 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Luckily this guy's all better.  She could use this advice now.

And given that Westeros has a teleporter - he should be there next episode.

[GrailKing]

Jorah be a good negotiator between Dany and Jon.

[YaddaYadda]

7 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Jorah be a good negotiator between Dany and Jon.

But first order of business, jealousy.

[GrailKing]

7 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

But first order of business, jealousy.

Man Can't Win; Darrio, the Starks in general and Now Jon up front and center.

Sansa should hook him up, wouldn't that come under her duties?? LOL

[Maximum Taco]

16 hours ago, Tikichick said:

What caught my attention on second watch was listening more intently to the precise words he said -- and how many of them eerily fit to the potential description of the Three Eyed Raven -- immediately before Sansa was called to the gate because Bran himself had arrived.   It's like the words were literally hanging in the air directly above Bran's head, almost an on the nose verbalization of what we understand Bran's status to be.

Yeah I picked up on that too.

Littlefinger is saying all that stuff about fighting every battle everywhere, but now Sansa has a weapon that can actually help her do that. Her brother.

Littlefinger is gonna be in for a rude surprise when he discovers there's someone in Winterfell who actually does know everything.

You know, if Bran stops being a dick bringing up painful memories and starts using his abilities to be helpful.

 

15 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I've only read the books themselves.  Did Martin release all of this background material? 

Did you read A World of Ice and Fire?

A lot of the background is in there. The hot springs are mentioned in the books several times though. Usually when talking about Winterfell's "glass gardens"

So that's another reason to want to be at Winterfell, if they have a greenhouse, they can actually GROW food in winter.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Maximum Taco

[Drogo]

13 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

But first order of business, jealousy.

 

2 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

Littlefinger is gonna be in for a rude surprise when he discovers there's someone in Winterfell who actually does know everything.

...and that Sansa hugs him.

[Tikichick]

37 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

You know Grey Worm is cursing Tyrion's name as he is now stuck at Casterly Rock surrounded by enemies.  "I knew not to listen to that piece of shit."  If Grey Worm survives - as he is a general - he should be the war-time consiglieri.

Sorry, I think that's a disastrous idea.

Grey Worm doesn't know Westeros or the Westerosi at all.  Grey Worm is very knowledgeable and experienced in battle techniques, it's all he knows.  He's darned good at commanding forces on the field, at least commanding Unsullied forces who have the same training he did.  That's a far different thing than understanding overall political and overarching war strategy.

[screamin]

9 minutes ago, Drogo said:

 

...and that Sansa hugs him.

The annoying thing about Jorah coming back and being pardoned by Dany for his Westeros crimes is that he'll displace little Lady Mormont to become the ruler of Bear Island.

[Tikichick]

51 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Would the Citadel send her a maester though? 

That's what I was asking.  I believe simply status as "the Lady of Dragonstone" would be the entitlement.  (Don't breathe a word to Her Grace that I gave her such a title, I have no wish to await dragon's breath.)

Just now, screamin said:

The annoying thing about Jorah coming back and being pardoned by Dany for his Westeros crimes is that he'll displace little Lady Mormont to become the ruler of Bear Island.

I believe Jorah had been disinherited, although his father may have reversed that when he forgave him.  No matter, I see no possibility of writers or producers dislodging Lady Lyanna.

[Maximum Taco]

8 minutes ago, screamin said:

The annoying thing about Jorah coming back and being pardoned by Dany for his Westeros crimes is that he'll displace little Lady Mormont to become the ruler of Bear Island.

I don't think so.

For one, I don't think Jorah wants that. Maybe before he wanted to come home and rule Bear Island again, but now I think he just wants to be close to Dany. More likely he becomes one of her Queensguard and forfeits his claim.

For two, I think there's a higher than normal chance he dies, probably next season. Whereas I doubt Lady Lyanna will die.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Maximum Taco

[Affogato]

14 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Not to undercut your point about the Stark children having some basis of knowledge from their upbringing, because I do agree with it.  But I think in the instance of Bran stepping in to run WF the fact that by and large the household staff remained in place to continue their duties they already understood well cannot be overlooked either.  Bran took counsel from learned and experienced members of the household such as Maester Luwin as well.

 

In a semi related vein, we haven't seen that Dany has a maester at Dragonstone yet, have we?   Even on the basis of being simply mistress of Dragonstone, would she not have the right to contact the Citadel and request a maester for her household?

I think they all would have been raised to know a variety of things but Sansa was relatively old when the troubles came down and by all accounts a biddable girl who would have studied what her mother told her, her dream to manage her own castle in the future.  Rob and Jon indubitably were educated. I think at some point there is a matter of time passed in all of this, even in the show Bran was still fairly young when he was injured.

[MarySNJ]

1 hour ago, Maximum Taco said:

I don't think so.

For one, I don't think Jorah wants that. Maybe before he wanted to come home and rule Bear Island again, but now I think he just wants to be close to Dany. More likely he becomes one of her Queensguard and forfeits his claim.

For two, I think there's a higher than normal chance he dies, probably next season. Whereas I doubt Lady Lyanna will die.

Agreed. Jorah has been all about Khaleesi since he fell in love with her. I assume he will resume his place in Daenerys' Queensguard. He forfeited his holdings on Bear Island. What's more, Jeor Mormont's dying wish was for Jorah to join the Night's Watch, so clearly he wasn't expecting or wanting Jorah to come home and take over from the Mormont Ladies. 

The biggest challenge for Jorah is accepting that he is destined to the Friend Zone, probably in perpetuity. 

[domina89]

5 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

The biggest challenge for Jorah is accepting that he is destined to the Friend Zone, probably in perpetuity. 

Nice callback.  

Well something could still happen to Jon- we don't know what his fate might be.  If Jorah and Dany both survive the Long Night, maybe he will get his chance.  I mean, if they are the last two people in Westeros........and there are no sheep (sorry- shameless "10 Things I Hate About You" reference).

[Blonde Gator]

Just because it's so funny, and was such a bone of contention amongst the various shippers on this week's episode.  Enjoy!

[Minneapple]

How the hell do you spell "Daenerys" right but misspell "Jon"?

[DigitalCount]

Daenerys is a fake fantasy name with no real world equivalent, so you have to look it up. But John? Everyone knows how to spell John. Even if it's actually spelled Jon.

[Oscirus]

3 hours ago, Macbeth said:

Tyrion didn't expect Jon to bend the knee.  That's why his message to Jon requesting his presence didn't include the order that he would need to bend the knee as Dany had requested.  Tyrion knew that if that was in the message Jon wouldn't come. 

He knew enough about Jon that he could foresee that he could become an ally.  He just wanted to get Dany to meet Jon. He cautioned both of him.  He told Jon he can't expect troops to assist him based on one meeting, and he told Dany that they are courting Jon with the dragon glass to become another ally.

Tyrion and Varys are really good at making alliances and keeping the peace.  Tyrion has proven just because he won one battle that doesn't make him a war-time consiglieri. 

You know Grey Worm is cursing Tyrion's name as he is now stuck at Casterly Rock surrounded by enemies.  "I knew not to listen to that piece of shit."  If Grey Worm survives - as he is a general - he should be the war-time consiglieri.

Yea Tyrion's a diplomat, not a one size fits all hand. Let him deal with the political stuff and get you someone with military experience. I would say Snow, but we saw how he did in his last war.

Grey Worm's all "this is the second time this fucker's did this to me. He got one more time." 

[Blonde Gator]

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Would the Citadel send her a maester though? 

Why wouldn't they?  She is the de facto head of House Targaryan, and is the holder of Dragonstone.  She qualifies for a Maester as such.

IIRC, bMaester Aemon knew she needed one, when she was still in Essos, I don't recall if he ever acted upon that thought, though, by sending a request to the Citadel.  In the books (but unfortunately not on the show), Sam meets Maester Marwyn (the Mage, who taught Mirri Maz Duur her blood magic, way back when), the only Maester in the Citadel who is "into" magic.....and Maester Marwyn immediately leaves to meet Dany, and that's the last we've heard of him.

[Oscirus]

3 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

I don't think so.

For one, I don't think Jorah wants that. Maybe before he wanted to come home and rule Bear Island again, but now I think he just wants to be close to Dany. More likely he becomes one of her Queensguard and forfeits his claim.

For two, I think there's a higher than normal chance he dies, probably next season. Whereas I doubt Lady Lyanna will die.

and third if he tried that Lyanna would embarrass his ass.

[Blonde Gator]

3 hours ago, screamin said:

The annoying thing about Jorah coming back and being pardoned by Dany for his Westeros crimes is that he'll displace little Lady Mormont to become the ruler of Bear Island.

I wouldn't bet on that. 

Spoiler

Jorah per the spoilers, refuses to take back Long Claw.

  The Jorah we see onscreen wouldn't do that, he is still trying to atone for all of the wrongs he's done, and I believe he'd see usurping the Little Bear (or whichever of her sisters are still alive) would be stupid and unproductive, as the Mormonts have a history of passing down the Mormont name through the women of their family.  Plus, he sees his house is in good hands.

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

I wouldn't bet on that. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Jorah per the spoilers, refuses to take back Long Claw.

  The Jorah we see onscreen wouldn't do that, he is still trying to atone for all of the wrongs he's done, and I believe he'd see usurping the Little Bear (or whichever of her sisters are still alive) would be stupid and unproductive, as the Mormonts have a history of passing down the Mormont name through the women of their family.  Plus, he sees his house is in good hands.

Interesting tidbit I haven't heard speculated.  Wouldn't surprise me on either side of that issue.

[Blonde Gator]

40 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

How the hell do you spell "Daenerys" right but misspell "Jon"?

Apparently, "you know nothing, JoHn Snow" wore off on the author of this meme.  It's kind of funnier this way.

[benteen]

3 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Sorry, I think that's a disastrous idea.

Grey Worm doesn't know Westeros or the Westerosi at all.  Grey Worm is very knowledgeable and experienced in battle techniques, it's all he knows.  He's darned good at commanding forces on the field, at least commanding Unsullied forces who have the same training he did.  That's a far different thing than understanding overall political and overarching war strategy.

Grey Worm should put Casterly Rock to the torch.  I think it would be epic though if he and the Unsullied marched through the Westerlands all the way to King's Landing.  That's the kind of story you hear in the histories of Westeros.

Jorah is not going to usurp Lyanna.  He'll stay by Dany's side, where he wants to be and he'll be much safer there.  Jorah would probably like to see Bear Island again but I'm pretty sure Lyanna would want no part of him and would have him locked up at the very least, maybe executed.  Jon probably wouldn't want to do that because Jorah is Lord Mormont's son and because of what Sam did for him but I think he would listen to his lords on this one.

[Francie]

4 hours ago, screamin said:

The annoying thing about Jorah coming back and being pardoned by Dany for his Westeros crimes is that he'll displace little Lady Mormont to become the ruler of Bear Island.

Bear Island knows no other liege lady than Lady Lyanna. 

[benteen]

What might be as bad as the armorer not knowing to use leather while making armor is in the same scene Maester Wolkan not knowing what the longest winter in the last 100 years was.  Seriously?  You're a freakin maester who went to the Citadel for years.  You would think that to them, the longest winter in 100 years would be as common knowledge as George Washington being the first president of the United States is to us.

[Macbeth]

Oh Tyrion.  How does he not recognize that he only won the Battle of Blackwater by his use of wildfire that killed so many?  You can't conquer Westeros through, for the most part, diplomacy.  

Oleanna was right as usual.  Dany needs to be a dragon and conquer.  Unfortunately.

I don't blame the citizens at the capital for cheering Euron.  They probably won't survive Dany's take over.

In a related note.  Davos was great as always.  He was cool to Tyrion that he was on the other side of the Battle of Blackwater, but he didn't tell Tyrion that his own son had died there.  He knew that information would not be conductive to negotiations.  He rocks as always.

[Dev F]

4 hours ago, screamin said:

The annoying thing about Jorah coming back and being pardoned by Dany for his Westeros crimes is that he'll displace little Lady Mormont to become the ruler of Bear Island.

Others have addressed the question of whether Jorah would really displace Lady Mormont, but this conversation made me wonder something else: How is Jorah wandering around Westeros, telling people his real name, when he's an infamous slaver and a wanted fugitive? The whole basis of his character is that he can't go home unless he somehow earns a royal pardon, but then . . . he just goes home anyway, and faces no consequences as a result?

[Tikichick]

Just now, Dev F said:

Others have addressed the question of whether Jorah would really displace Lady Mormont, but this conversation made me wonder something else: How is Jorah wandering around Westeros, telling people his real name, when he's an infamous slaver and a wanted fugitive? The whole basis of his character is that he can't go home unless he somehow earns a royal pardon, but then . . . he just goes home anyway, and faces no consequences as a result?

I'd honestly lost track of Jorah's crimes in the tidal wave of details of this saga.  I guess the most convenient explanation would be that he essentially has a royal pardon via the "rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, aka the Breaker of Chains".  Perhaps the fact he also supported Danaery's efforts to break those chains could be used to balance his crime?

[Blonde Gator]

9 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Others have addressed the question of whether Jorah would really displace Lady Mormont, but this conversation made me wonder something else: How is Jorah wandering around Westeros, telling people his real name, when he's an infamous slaver and a wanted fugitive? The whole basis of his character is that he can't go home unless he somehow earns a royal pardon, but then . . . he just goes home anyway, and faces no consequences as a result?

Show Jorah actually received his pardon from Robert Baratheon (post-humously) when he was in Mereen (for his prior work spying on Dany).  When Dany found out, she kicked him out (where he ultimately met up with Tyrion....sold to slavers....hit the fighting pits.....reunited with Dany, yada yada).  So even though he no longer has the pardon with him, it was no doubt recorded and documented by the Royal keeper of the records in the Red Keep, and perhaps elsewhere.  But, to coin a phrase, it is known.

Edited to add:  Jorah's dishonor is well known in the North, and I seriously doubt any of the Northern Lords would happily allow him to usurp Lyanna either, even if Jorah wanted that, which of course, he doesn't.  He's Dany's creature now, and wants exactly nothing to do with ruling the North, except to aid Dany's ambitions there, if she is serious about eventually reuniting the Seven Kingdoms (doubtful, IMO, as the bigger picture emerges).

Edited August 3, 2017 by Blonde Gator

[Dev F]

33 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

Show Jorah actually received his pardon from Robert Baratheon (post-humously) when he was in Mereen (for his prior work spying on Dany).  When Dany found out, she kicked him out (where he ultimately met up with Tyrion....sold to slavers....hit the fighting pits.....reunited with Dany, yada yada).  So even though he no longer has the pardon with him, it was no doubt recorded and documented by the Royal keeper of the records in the Red Keep, and perhaps elsewhere.  But, to coin a phrase, it is known.

Hmm, I guess I assumed that he was given a proffer of some sort rather than a final pardon, and that he'd have to return to Westeros to accept it. That seems to be how Dany interprets it when she finds out about it later: "Go back to your masters in King's Landing. Collect your pardon if you can." And it seems odd that Varys would give Jorah a get-out-of-jail-free card without some mechanism for ensuring that he wouldn't accept the pardon and then start pissing all over the Spider's work. (Which is exactly what he ended up doing, but I assumed that it was because he weighed the pardon against his love for Dany and decided the latter was more important, not because he knew he'd have the pardon to fall back on either way.)

But if we never get a better explanation, I suppose it's not totally nonsensical to assume that the pardon still stands.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Dev F

[benteen]

Jorah is essentially a Kingsguard (or Queensguard) for Dany, giving up everything to serve her.

[Francie]

42 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Hmm, I guess I assumed that he was given a proffer of some sort rather than a final pardon, and that he'd have to return to Westeros to accept it. That seems to be how Dany interprets it when she finds out about it later: "Go back to your masters in King's Landing. Collect your pardon if you can." And it seems odd that Varys would give Jorah a get-out-of-jail-free card without some mechanism for ensuring that he wouldn't accept the pardon and then start pissing all over the Spider's work. (Which is exactly what he ended up doing, but I assumed that it was because he weighed the pardon against his love for Dany and decided the latter was more important, not because he knew he'd have the pardon to fall back on either way.)

But if we never get a better explanation, I suppose it's not totally nonsensical to assume that the pardon still stands.

Robert pardoned him.  Dany would pardon him.

The only one who would care is Ned.

And Ned's dead, baby. Ned's dead.

[MrWhyt]

4 hours ago, Dev F said:

Others have addressed the question of whether Jorah would really displace Lady Mormont, but this conversation made me wonder something else: How is Jorah wandering around Westeros, telling people his real name, when he's an infamous slaver and a wanted fugitive? The whole basis of his character is that he can't go home unless he somehow earns a royal pardon, but then . . . he just goes home anyway, and faces no consequences as a result?

How infamous is he? people in The North might know who he is but would any in oldtown? king's landing? There is no internet, no national news, we can't be sure how widely information is spread in Westeros.

[polyhymnia]

On 7/31/2017 at 0:36 PM, nodorothyparker said:

It almost always seemed to be under Stannis.  I was kind of disappointed when they were doing Dragonstone: Makeover Edition in the season premier that we didn't get any of what made Stannis's court so weirdly endearingly gothic except for her pulling down one tattered fiery heart banner.  No piles of burned gods or burned anything.  No fetuses preserved in jars.  Not even a clearly visible assprint on the Painted Table or dried up jars of leeches or anything.  That would have been quite the welcome to Westeros.  Now we just get bright days and picturesque views for the dragons to frolic in.

When she arrived in episode 1 I turned to Mr. Polyhymnia and wondered if she would find Melissandre's room of weird potions and the creepy bedroom of jarred fetuses because I cannot imagine Stannis and Selyse took those with them on the trip North.

Edited August 7, 2017 by polyhymnia

[DarkRaichu]

11 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

Littlefinger is gonna be in for a rude surprise when he discovers there's someone in Winterfell who actually does know everything.

 

And another one coming who can actually be anyone she wants.  I bet that would surprise mr all knowing littlefinger to no end :D 

10 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Sorry, I think that's a disastrous idea.

Grey Worm doesn't know Westeros or the Westerosi at all.  Grey Worm is very knowledgeable and experienced in battle techniques, it's all he knows.  He's darned good at commanding forces on the field, at least commanding Unsullied forces who have the same training he did.  That's a far different thing than understanding overall political and overarching war strategy.

Agreed. Gey Worm is an excellent Captain, he is good at following orders and would improvise  tactics in battlefield to win.  However, he is not really a war general / strategist.  He does not really see the big picture

 

7 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

Part of the Maesters' raison d'etre is to serve as advisors to the various houses of Westeros.  Knowing that everything is political (i.e. agenda driven), it would make even more sense that the Citadel send Dany a maester, to keep an eye on her, as it were.  The maesters supposedly serve the castle, not the occupant (as we saw with Grand Maester Pycelle), but bottom line, they serve the rest of the Maesters.  It's actually one of GRRM's most under-rated plots/themes, IMO.   While the maesters collocated within the houses of Westeros help the country and the people, their real purpose is to serve and perpetuate the mission of the Citadel (which may have changed over time, who knows?  The glass candles have my antennae twitching, truthfully).

Even in  the show Arch-Meister said the Citadel records the whole history of Westeros.  Even if they do not recognize Dany as true leader, shouldn't they at least send a Maester to record the history in the making?  How often does an exiled princess come back with THREE dragons in tow???  

At the very least, there should be a Maester or two who are dragon nerds and would love to see 3 dragons up close.  Dragons were supposed to be extinct at this point

Edited August 4, 2017 by DarkRaichu

[Francie]

My top 10-ish observations on the *cough* 4th *cough* watch through:

10. Davos: "The place has changed." Ha -- I missed this on prior runthroughs.

9.  "This is Jon Snow." [long pause] "He's King of the North." I love Davos to death. I'm hoping he makes it through to the end. 

8. "They're hard to miss." The snark is strong with this one. 

7.   "You stand in the presence of Daenerys Targaryen .... Protector of the Seven Kingdoms ...." Hold up.  She's done nothing but land on a volcanic rock island, sent a bunch of trained warriors to sack a castle, and is sitting on a throne. What the fuck is she doing saying she's protected anything in the Seven Kingdoms? Talk about somebody putting something they never did on their resume. 

6. More on that point .. "You stand in the presence of Daenerys Targaryen ... Protector of the Seven Kingdoms..." Jon: Can I have the dragonglass to protect the Seven Kingdoms from an invading force? Dany's first response:  No.  FU, Miss "Protector." Protector of your Entitlement, maybe.

5. I made it through the Dany/Jon scene until "the dead." Gah, even with Jon Snow's snark and the presence of Davos and Tyrion, this scene remains insufferable. The entitlement of Daenerys Stormborm, Teenage Wife of a Warlord; Crosser of the Desert; Slave Owner; Murderer of Lawful Merchants; Renigger of Deals; and Blockbuster Video Lifetime Membership Card Holder is tiresome. Oh so tiresome. 

4. I could very much do without Euron's "making me hard" comment. 

3. The Ellaria/Cersei/Tyenne scene. One of the best of the series. 

2.5 Sam followed the instructions for curing greyscale. 10 points for Gryffin.... oh, I mean, bad Sam Bad, bad Sam. 

2. Love the heroic, sweeping version of Rains of Castamere that play over Jaime's walk. I'm quite certain we'll be hearing that again. 

1.5.  Casterly Rock is supposed to look like a rock in the shape of the lion, and not castle-like at all. Utter fail on the show's part on that one. 

1.   Diana Rigg never hit a false note once. She, Johnathan Pryce, Charles Dance and other a few others are largely responsible for elevating this show to a wonderful, intelligent drama. 

Oh, and Dany's "my brothers are dead" comment? I hoping that's just a cigar being a cigar and not foreshadowing of one brother not being so dead, after all.  

Edited August 4, 2017 by Francie

[Francie]

6 hours ago, Macbeth said:

Oh Tyrion.  How does he not recognize that he only won the Battle of Blackwater by his use of wildfire that killed so many?  You can't conquer Westeros through, for the most part, diplomacy.  

Oleanna was right as usual.  Dany needs to be a dragon and conquer.  Unfortunately.

I don't blame the citizens at the capital for cheering Euron.  They probably won't survive Dany's take over.

In a related note.  Davos was great as always.  He was cool to Tyrion that he was on the other side of the Battle of Blackwater, but he didn't tell Tyrion that his own son had died there.  He knew that information would not be conductive to negotiations.  He rocks as always.

The Battle of the Blackwater was lost .... until Tywin and Loras Tyrell and their respective armies showed up. Yes, without Tyrion, the battle would have been lost. He slowed down Stannis and took out much of his forces. But it ultimately would have been a losing cause, without his father. 

[Dev F]

3 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

How infamous is he? people in The North might know who he is but would any in oldtown? king's landing? There is no internet, no national news, we can't be sure how widely information is spread in Westeros.

Well, I would think if anyone else knew, it would be the maesters of Oldtown, who run Westeros's main information-spreading system. If nothing else, I'd imagine Jorah would be concerned that they might know, and would be apt to either seek help elsewhere or at least be a little more discreet about sharing his real identity.

[Raachel2008]

3 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

How infamous is he? people in The North might know who he is but would any in oldtown? king's landing? There is no internet, no national news, we can't be sure how widely information is spread in Westeros.

What really matters in the end is if the North remembers, and the North remembers. Lyanna is a 10 years old girl, but I have a hard time seeing that kid accepting to be pushed aside by her uncle who tainted the family name by being a slave  trader, or the Northen houses backing up him. Right now, being pardoned by Robert means nothing to the North, it he happens to be pardoned by Dany it means nothing for the North unless Jon bends the knee - and we don't know if he will. Even if he does, I don't  think Jorah would ever want to rule Bear Island. And assuming Dany becomes queen, the North bend the knee and all, I'm sure people would point to her why it would be a bad decision.

[benteen]

37 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Well, I would think if anyone else knew, it would be the maesters of Oldtown, who run Westeros's main information-spreading system. If nothing else, I'd imagine Jorah would be concerned that they might know, and would be apt to either seek help elsewhere or at least be a little more discreet about sharing his real identity.

He would probably be known a little bit in the Reach since he married Lord Hightower's daughter.  But outside of The North, King's Landing (Robert and his small council were familiar with his situation) and Oldtown, he really wouldn't be known that much.  They probably wouldn't care either at this point, save for the North.

[screamin]

On 8/2/2017 at 8:30 PM, Tikichick said:

In a semi related vein, we haven't seen that Dany has a maester at Dragonstone yet, have we?   Even on the basis of being simply mistress of Dragonstone, would she not have the right to contact the Citadel and request a maester for her household?

The maesters in Oldtown are so hidebound conservative that they hadn't even updated their books on the fact that Commander Mormont was dead and had been for some while, even though a raven surely arrived long before Sam did with the news. They found that a cure for greyscale entailed danger of contagion for the curer and they immediately banned the cure instead of trying to figure out how to make it safer. I'd guess they'd wait till Dany was celebrating her tenth year on the throne before deciding if she was going to stick or not - be a pity to waste a maester who'd get slaughtered if she were overthrown in a month...

[Constantinople]

10 hours ago, benteen said:

Grey Worm should put Casterly Rock to the torch.  I think it would be epic though if he and the Unsullied marched through the Westerlands all the way to King's Landing.  That's the kind of story you hear in the histories of Westeros.

Jorah is not going to usurp Lyanna.  He'll stay by Dany's side, where he wants to be and he'll be much safer there.  Jorah would probably like to see Bear Island again but I'm pretty sure Lyanna would want no part of him and would have him locked up at the very least, maybe executed.  Jon probably wouldn't want to do that because Jorah is Lord Mormont's son and because of what Sam did for him but I think he would listen to his lords on this one.

I've been wondering if Grey Worm ends up writing the Westerosi version of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabasis_(Xenophon)

I also agree that Jorah will go where Daenerys goes

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

I also agree that Jorah will go where Daenerys goes

Not sure why people debating this.  He is the type who'd rather stay close to his love even though they can never be more than friends ;)

[Macbeth]

I have to say Euron won me over this episode, with his entire exchange with Jaime.

I loved that he was taunting Jaime with his desire to compare notes on what would please Cersei in bed.  After the "Does she like a finger in the bum" comment it looked like Jaime was going to kill him.  But Euron diffused the situation with "sh. sh. sh... We'll talk later."

The look on Jaime's face with priceless.

Loras is laughing in the afterlife.  Jaime gave him such a hard time,  He was a complete douche to a guy who didn't want to marry Cersei in anyway.  Was being forced to.  And he was gay.  So unless Tywin was in the bedroom with a sword threatening them death if they did not copulate - sex was never going to happen.