S03.E05: Dating in the Dark

[MegD]

2 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I too felt bad for the twins having to hear all about their baby sister's potential vagina while they're TRYING TO EAT. Jesus, Jazz. And for her to say that her vagina is going to be "part of the family" so they have to talk about it? By that logic, every woman alive should be talking about their vaginas with their brothers. No. No ma'am.

The question she was asked to bring up the bottom surgery was "How's high school?" WTF kind of answer is "well I've been jetting around the country looking for America's next top vagina and the last guy said I'd need to use my colon so it's going to lubricate and smell." The boys look so uncomfortable. One of them even says that they are eating at the moment. She also completely glosses over that the first guy told her the same thing about the colon usage. "Even if my brothers would prefer to not hear about my future vagina, it's not going to matter because they're going to hear about it anyway. She is a new part of the family basically and they have to be introduced to her." That right there summed up why I am starting to dislike Jazz so much. That's just bratty, rude and self-centered to an extreme. I suspect that she's a lot like this off camera as well. It's just too bizarre to be just for the cameras.

[chickenella]

20 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

I'm over the voice Jazz keeps slipping into. I'm sure it's a habit she's picked up, but it's super annoying.

Are you referring to the baby voice she uses every so often? If so, it's driving me crazy, too. Strange thing, I had a friend many moons ago who Jazz reminds me of. She was 1/2 Italian 1/2 Portuguese, had the same olive skin as Jazz and similar facial features. She was beautiful and exotic looking. But she'd go into that baby voice also! It was usually when she was trying to get her way with the parents. Arrrgh!

[Fostersmom]

6 hours ago, chickenella said:

Are you referring to the baby voice she uses every so often? If so, it's driving me crazy, too. Strange thing, I had a friend many moons ago who Jazz reminds me of. She was 1/2 Italian 1/2 Portuguese, had the same olive skin as Jazz and similar facial features. She was beautiful and exotic looking. But she'd go into that baby voice also! It was usually when she was trying to get her way with the parents. Arrrgh!

That's the one. God knows, I'm sure I did similar things when I was her age, but damn, it's annoying. As I'm sure I was too. I just didn't have a TV show where everyone else could see and hear it. 

[Impatient]

Has Noelle had the bottom surgery yet?  She strikes me as someone no psychiatrist would ever diagnose as having any serious mental health issues.  So i am sure if she can pay for it, she could have done it.  Or maybe she's on the show to get the money for surgery?

 

i was just thinking that if we are talking about manipulating plot lines for the show's success, it would be great to have Noelle there as the calm reasonable person for Jazz to experience this with.  

That's supposed to be a baby voice?  I thought it was supposed to be a woman with an accent of some kind.  It is grating.

[SongbirdHollow]

I worry about Noelle. Sure, she handles everything with aplomb but she also has a very flat affect. I'm not sure it's good to internalize things that much. Careless words she shrugs off, but I think there are deeper hurts that she should talk about. I hope she has the support she needs. 

[Impatient]

I did notice that jeanette and Greg seemed more subdued.   I think the producers read these kinds of comments at various internet locations and it affects the things that are said on the show..  Or maybe focus groups for reactions?  I don't know the time frame between filming and airing.  But Just things like Jazz being a spoiled brat, disrespectful, etc.  Could be coincidence but this last episode was so toned down, it was striking.

 

also, how did they do the dating in the dark?  Were the actors wearing white opaque contact lenses?  It looked like it.  Also, objects were casting shadows, so clearly there was light in the room.  

 

What was the point of the love connection between Jazz and her "match"?  I mean, seriously, i know there are very nice people in the world who would not be bothered by Jazz's status.  And could develop a really excellent romance.  But i don't think any of them are 19.  People grow into their sexual preferences and at adolescence, the thing that defines you is your peer group.  So are they setting up a "why doesn't he call?" Situation?  

 

I love Noelle but she needs a lot of help in transitioning.  I am surprised the show isn't helping her look more feminine.  Do they want there to be a contrast with Jazz that is striking, so they can make a case for the approach Jeanette made such pioneering strides in?  Just things like tweezing her eyebrows and better application of makeup.  And hair.  It's like they aren't helping her at all.  I believe Noelle could be way more convincingly feminine and also, just for her own self-confidence, more attractive.

 

that guy saying Noelle was going to have a much harder time at parties than a normal girl?  Yes.  "Normal" was a jarring bucket of cold water.  But true and the comment of the sorority girl (who seemed to have her own issues....  Anorexia maybe?) that she couldn't speak for her sorority but they are all such wonderful loving girls.....  Yeah right.  Oddly enough, i think Jazz might do fine getting accepted into a sorority but would never be treated like a sister.  They would set Jazz up to offer contrast, in the way Jazz uses Noelle.  Or perhaps more accurately, the way the show uses Noelle.

 

sander and Griffin are clearly setting some boundaries on that show.  Not going to the gay pride event, minimal interactions with the family on camera.  And i am trying to imagine this.  If this situation was occurring with my brothers and i made this announcement, they'd be all over me for using the word "area" to describe penis.  And they would have a MILLION questions about surgery that involved taking a piece of your colon and that would have an odor.  I don't mind the producers creating situations but this was really fake-sounding.

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought that odd voice Jazz goes into was an imitation of a cartoon character.....lol.  If it's a baby voice....oh my....that is annoying.  But, Jazz is really much more immature than most girls her age, imo.  

I can't help but suspect that Jazz's mom has some kind of disorder where the child brings attention to the the mother. (Munchausen by prox?)  I don't think that she has made Jazz a transgender, but, that she has capitalized on the situation.  And perhaps fed into the anxiety problems.  I do think their relationship is co-dependent and that Jazz actually leaving home and attending college is uncertain.  I don't know what mom would do without being Jazz's everything.  I hope that mom can separate herself and lose the dysfunction. I'm a little surprised that therapist haven't noticed this, but, for years Jazz saw a very familiar lady, who was good friends with her mom and who had been her therapist since Jazz was a young child. (Shown in previous seasons.)  Then, mom sends Jazz to a family member therapist, cousin Debbie.  Well......why not go to an objective professional, who can really be more open minded and really work for Jazz's benefit.  It all seems fishy to me.  

IMO, Dad doesn't intervene, because he knows there's not much he can do. Dysfunction in a family is complicated.  And there are the grandparents....everyone plays in on this.  I noticed the older daughter has not been on camera much lately.  Maybe, she's not on board.  

They strike me as as family who would put Jazz earnings from the show into trust, so she can use it for her medical needs down the road, with the rest going for college.  There should be enough by now for both.  I wish they would go out on top with their show and not continue, since, being on reality tv offers a certain amount of risk and is perhaps not the best option for someone with Jazz's sensitivities. 

[surveyandprotect1]

39 minutes ago, Impatient said:

I did notice that jeanette and Greg seemed more subdued.   I think the producers read these kinds of comments at various internet locations and it affects the things that are said on the show..  Or maybe focus groups for reactions?  I don't know the time frame between filming and airing.  But Just things like Jazz being a spoiled brat, disrespectful, etc.  Could be coincidence but this last episode was so toned down, it was striking.

 

also, how did they do the dating in the dark?  Were the actors wearing white opaque contact lenses?  It looked like it.  Also, objects were casting shadows, so clearly there was light in the room.  

This episode ended filming on November 14th 2016. There was a big clue dropped for someone who was looking for it in the final scene. I highly doubt the producers changed anything based on the reaction to last week's episode. This episode was most likely edited about 6 months ago.

 

The dating in the dark scene was filmed using night vision IR cameras. I own several of them. The only visible light in the room was from a redish glow of IR light which is nearly invisible to the human eye. It is possible to get shadows to occur when using multiple IR cameras in close proximity. IR will highlight white objects, such as teeth and eyes and cause odd reflections like you noticed in their pupils. No special contacts needed for this effect.

[mangosplums]

I feel bad for Noelle. As someone else said, she handles things really maturely, but she can't be feeling great inside. I wonder if there are surgeries that exist that can feminize your voice, that and jaw surgery would make her pass pretty well. 

[JocelynCavanaugh]

8 hours ago, chickenella said:

Are you referring to the baby voice she uses every so often? If so, it's driving me crazy, too. Strange thing, I had a friend many moons ago who Jazz reminds me of. She was 1/2 Italian 1/2 Portuguese, had the same olive skin as Jazz and similar facial features. She was beautiful and exotic looking. But she'd go into that baby voice also! It was usually when she was trying to get her way with the parents. Arrrgh!

I've noticed two different annoying voices: the cartoon baby voice she uses with kittens, and the faaahbulous older woman voice (reminds me of Miss Patty from Gilmore girls) that comes out more during talking heads. Jazz has a lot of personality but at 16 she's still got some learning to do as far as when to rein it in. 

[mangosplums]

1 minute ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

I've noticed two different annoying voices: the cartoon baby voice she uses with kittens, and the faaahbulous older woman voice (reminds me of Miss Patty from Gilmore girls) that comes out more during talking heads. Jazz has a lot of personality but at 16 she's still got some learning to do as far as when to rein it in. 

I don't see anything wrong with either of those voices. Seriously, she's just being silly which is normal for a 16 year old, actually normal for a human being of any age. 

[JocelynCavanaugh]

Just now, mangosplums said:

I don't see anything wrong with either of those voices. Seriously, she's just being silly which is normal for a 16 year old, actually normal for a human being of any age. 

Of course being silly is fine, but it's also normal to find affected voices annoying. NBD. 

[greekmom]

11 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

I feel for Ari, Sander and Griffen...... everything all the time is about Jazz....has Jazz ever had to be there to support her siblings thru good and bad in their lives?  I support Jazz and wish her well in her journey but I get the feeling her life will be one event after another for the next 50 yes that her siblings will be expected to support.  Has Jazz ever sacrificed anything for them?  I hope so.

Agreed. But the show is I am Jazz. Not We are the Jennings. 

[SongbirdHollow]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I can't help but suspect that Jazz's mom has some kind of disorder where the child brings attention to the the mother. (Munchausen by prox?)

This has been mentioned before, but I don't think she has any disorder at all. She's just one of those moms of her generation that are very involved with their kids. And one of her kids is transgender. I've never seen Jeannette asking for or getting off on the sympathy of others. By definition, everyone on a reality show is a famewhore, so yeah, she's that. But I know plenty of moms that are just like her regarding their kids.

[seasons]

On 7/20/2017 at 9:14 AM, Lesia said:

does anybody else see "Tootsie" when they look at Jeanette?

**whispers quietly** Yes.

[mangosplums]

12 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

I feel for Ari, Sander and Griffen...... everything all the time is about Jazz....has Jazz ever had to be there to support her siblings thru good and bad in their lives?  I support Jazz and wish her well in her journey but I get the feeling her life will be one event after another for the next 50 yes that her siblings will be expected to support.  Has Jazz ever sacrificed anything for them?  I hope so.

They seem to be doing fine. I don't see them ~sacrificing~ much for Jazz. They are off living their exciting college lives and learning to become independent people. Not sure kids of that age really want much attention from their parents anyway. 

[SongbirdHollow]

3 minutes ago, mangosplums said:

They seem to be doing fine. I don't see them ~sacrificing~ much for Jazz. They are off living their exciting college lives and learning to become independent people. Not sure kids of that age really want much attention from their parents anyway. 

Yeah, she probably is over-involved with them as well and they are grateful for the break!

[seasons]

Re: the siblings - starting to possibly get a LPBW Molly and maybe even Jacob vibe.

[brilliantbreakfast]

I have friends who are like Jeannette -- totally involved with their kids, wanting all leisure time to be family time, unable to let go and allow their kids to be independent adults.  These moms choose their kids' prom outfits, do their resumes and cover letters, apply for jobs for them, try to get their adult children into the companies they work for, plan their weddings right down to the table decorations, approve the wedding dresses and tuxes, demand that all vacations be family vacations.  They chalk it up to "close families", and I come from a family that was horribly dysfunctional (our mother didn't even like my sister or me) so maybe my view is warped.  Add to the helicopter mom-ing the very understandable desire to protect a child who is "different" and you get Jeannette.  I don't see her as being all THAT much different from the helicopter moms I know.  I do wish, though, that she would have enough boundaries to understand Jazz for what she is -- a kid that needs some personal space to recharge her social jets rather than a social butterfly.  Jeannette is not the first mom to want her kid to be her "mini-me", but Jazz has enough pressures already.

[Madding crowd]

1 hour ago, surveyandprotect1 said:

This episode ended filming on November 14th 2016. There was a big clue dropped for someone who was looking for it in the final scene. I highly doubt the producers changed anything based on the reaction to last week's episode. This episode was most likely edited about 6 months ago.

 

The dating in the dark scene was filmed using night vision IR cameras. I own several of them. The only visible light in the room was from a redish glow of IR light which is nearly invisible to the human eye. It is possible to get shadows to occur when using multiple IR cameras in close proximity. IR will highlight white objects, such as teeth and eyes and cause odd reflections like you noticed in their pupils. No special contacts needed for this effect.

Since the rest of us are not privy to behind the scenes stuff, we can only comment on what we see. I am aware of the things that go on in reality TV, but again can only talk about what i see on the show. I saw no reason for Jazz to talk to her brothers about her potential vagina, or to tell them while they were eating about a possible odor. That is just obnoxious. I don't even talk to my husband about gyno things because he is not really interested. I did have a bit of an issue with Jazz sharing the pride parade float with a survivor from Pulse but she was obviously asked to do so. 

[ClareWalks]

1 hour ago, mangosplums said:

I feel bad for Noelle. As someone else said, she handles things really maturely, but she can't be feeling great inside. I wonder if there are surgeries that exist that can feminize your voice, that and jaw surgery would make her pass pretty well. 

I don't think there are voice-feminizing surgeries (although it's possible, not sure), but some transgender women go to speech therapy to train their voices to sound more feminine. So that is definitely an option for Noelle if she chooses to pursue it. There are some notable trans women (Caitlyn Jenner and Jennifer Finney-Boylan come to mind) who tried a little speech therapy but felt it was too affected for their comfort. It probably takes a long time to feel natural. Of course, as a cis woman with a booming deep alto, I am not thrown by the voices at all ;)

[Twopper]

I am a bit confused about the trip to the University in Gainesville; I thought they said they were stopping on their way to the Pride event in Orlando, but I thought they lived in south Florida.  The background scenes look like they live in south FL to me.  I have spent a lot of time with family in Orlando, and I think Gainesville is north of Orlando so it would not be on the way from south Florida.   Maybe I misheard them (I didn't dvr the episode).

If Jazz wants "alone" time in a crowd wearing rainbow wings is not the way to go.  Also I thought being on the float was the best thing for her as she was out of reach for people to touch her,  Was there only one float? And why did Jeanette get to ride it?  I felt a little sad for Noelle who had to walk in the parade while Jazz rode; Jeanette should have switched places with Noelle.

I like the idea of "dating in the dark" for adults; I know this was set up for the show, and the other 6 were almost certainly actors or would-be -actors.  I would hope in reality  Noelle would not reject a boy who just wanted to be friends.  One can gain a lot of knowledge about boys from having friends who are boys before one has boyfriends.   Also friends who are boys have other friends who are boys so it can be a great way to meet someone who wants to be a boyfriend.

I found myself focused more on Noelle than Jazz in this episode.  I don't think Noelle is stupid, and I am sure she knows if life is difficult for her in high school that it will be somewhat similar in college. The advantage in college ( especially a very large university) is that there will likely be more organizations where she will fit in.   I don't know how scripted the meeting with the boys was, but the guy was right that she will have a more difficult time fitting in than most girls.  He knows it, and Noelle knew it as well.  Was Noelle the person having electrolysis ( I missed that episode)?  I think she could also use some voice training  and a trip to a make-up artist who can help her with make-up suggestions that would draw attention away from her more masculine features.   And back to Jazz---- the hormones seem to have given her breasts and hips, but there is still something about her movements that seems a bit male to me, and I am not sure if I am really seeing that or if it is because I know she is MTF.   Maybe an episode where they go to an old fashioned charm school where they learn manners, how to sit and walk like a lady? 

I would like to see more Gregg, and less Jeanette.  I thought Jeanette's idea to send Jazz to a relative for therapy was wrong.  The only thing I could figure was that the show wanted a therapy session, but no therapist would agree to filming so they went with the relative.  I am not always a big supporter of therapy, but I think they could benefit from some family therapy.  The lunch in Gainesville was awkward; a conversation about the Pride event rather than the bottom surgery would have been more appropriate, but then it wouldn't have centered on Jazz.  I am glad she likes soccer.  Maybe she should take a break from being a spokesperson for transgender children and teens and spend more time developing other aspects of her life.   At one point she was on a soccer team.

I will try to end on a positive upbeat note.  The kitten is cute. 

[mangosplums]

9 minutes ago, Twopper said:

 

And back to Jazz---- the hormones seem to have given her breasts and hips, but there is still something about her movements that seems a bit male to me, and I am not sure if I am really seeing that or if it is because I know she is MTF.   Maybe an episode where they go to an old fashioned charm school where they learn manners, how to sit and walk like a lady? 

 

I really think this is because you know she's MTF. Most women don't move in a stereotypical lady-like manner, but you don't question it because they are female. I'm pretty sure if you interacted with or observed Jazz without knowing she was MTF you'd never think for  a second she was trans, and you'd think she came across in mannerisms, vocal patterns and general behavior as female, albeit with a more self-assured, confident, extroverted way about her than your average teenage girl. I know she talks about being introverted on the show, and in many ways she is, but there's certain ways in which she commands a room and is extroverted more than your average person. 

13 minutes ago, Twopper said:

 

I found myself focused more on Noelle than Jazz in this episode.  I don't think Noelle is stupid, and I am sure she knows if life is difficult for her in high school that it will be somewhat similar in college. The advantage in college ( especially a very large university) is that there will likely be more organizations where she will fit in.   I don't know how scripted the meeting with the boys was, but the guy was right that she will have a more difficult time fitting in than most girls.  He knows it, and Noelle knew it as well.  Was Noelle the person having electrolysis ( I missed that episode)?  I think she could also use some voice training  and a trip to a make-up artist who can help her with make-up suggestions that would draw attention away from her more masculine features. 

Yeah, when Noelle was asking how she'd be accepted at a sorority or a frat party and then said she wanted to be accepted by a sorority because that would make her feel she was fully a girl... that made me sad. That is just not realistic for Noelle. The type of people in a Florida college frat environment are the not types of people Noelle should be trying to become a part of. She will never be accepted by them, it's futile. Noelle needs to go to a different kind of liberal arts college and become friends with a friend group that is less stereotypical and more diverse and open-minded than the people Jazz's brothers are friends with. 

Just now, mangosplums said:

I really think this is because you know she's MTF. Most women don't move in a stereotypical lady-like manner, but you don't question it because they are female. I'm pretty sure if you interacted with or observed Jazz without knowing she was MTF you'd never think for  a second she was trans, and you'd think she came across in mannerisms, vocal patterns and general behavior as female, albeit with a more self-assured, confident, extroverted way about her than your average teenage girl. I know she talks about being introverted on the show, and in many ways she is, but there's certain ways in which she commands a room and is extroverted more than your average girl. 

Yeah, when Noelle was asking how she'd be accepted at a sorority or a frat party and then said she wanted to be accepted by a sorority because that would make her feel she was fully a girl... that made me sad. That is just not realistic for Noelle. The type of people in a Florida college frat environment are the not types of people Noelle should be trying to become a part of. She will never be accepted by them, it's futile. Noelle needs to go to a different kind of liberal arts college and become friends with a friend group that is less stereotypical and more diverse and open-minded than the people Jazz's brothers are friends with. 

[mangosplums]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

 I did have a bit of an issue with Jazz sharing the pride parade float with a survivor from Pulse but she was obviously asked to do so. 

why would you have an issue with that?

[surveyandprotect1]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

Since the rest of us are not privy to behind the scenes stuff, we can only comment on what we see. I am aware of the things that go on in reality TV....

That's understandable. I like to provide a little bit of a different perspective and additional knowledge when possible.

[ClareWalks]

I agree with those that think Jazz carries herself or moves in a less than graceful way, but I don't view it as masculine, just my opinion. I have seen lots of men who move with grace and ease (several American Ninja Warrior competitors come instantly to mind), and seen lots of women who are a bit more ungainly. It doesn't seem to be a masculine/feminine dichotomy, although there might be things about her movement or posture that are more common in teen boys than in girls.

[surveyandprotect1]

35 minutes ago, Twopper said:

I am a bit confused about the trip to the University in Gainesville; I thought they said they were stopping on their way to the Pride event in Orlando, but I thought they lived in south Florida.  The background scenes look like they live in south FL to me.  I have spent a lot of time with family in Orlando, and I think Gainesville is north of Orlando so it would not be on the way from south Florida.   Maybe I misheard them (I didn't dvr the episode).

They live in South Florida. The travel sequence doesn't make much sense, but then again it was filmed over multiple days. Travel time from their location to Gainsville is 4 hr 30 minutes and then 1 hr 45 minutes back down to Orlando.

[greekmom]

2 hours ago, seasons said:

Re: the siblings - starting to possibly get a LPBW Molly and maybe even Jacob vibe.

You've peeked my interest. Please explain as I don't understand the meaning of LPBW Molly and Jacob.

Thanks

[okerry]

13 hours ago, MegD said:

"Even if my brothers would prefer to not hear about my future vagina, it's not going to matter because they're going to hear about it anyway. She is a new part of the family basically and they have to be introduced to her."

Jazz is quickly learning to have no boundaries and to just bulldoze anyone else's. That's a very bad way to go through life, no matter who you are.

4 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

I worry about Noelle. Sure, she handles everything with aplomb but she also has a very flat affect. I'm not sure it's good to internalize things that much. 

This may well be the result of anti-depressants. That's exactly what happens to someone who's on them.

[Madding crowd]

48 minutes ago, mangosplums said:

why would you have an issue with that?

Because Jazz has nothing to do with the nightclub, doesn't know the people involved and is not personally affected by this tragedy. I would rather have the survivors and friends and families of the victims. Just an opinion.

[Granny58]

20 hours ago, gingerella said:

One thing that struck me was that even though Noelle's match didn't want to date her romantically, I think it IS a win for her that she has a Herero guy who would like to get to know her better. To me that isn't a loss for her, it's a win! He is willing to go out with her in public as a friend and get to know her, even if just as a friend, I think that would be great for her to have a hetero male pal her own age. Go Noelle...!

Maybe this generation is different, but "in my day" that was a kiss off.  

[Scarlett45]

Just now, Granny58 said:

Maybe this generation is different, but "in my day" that was a kiss off.  

I'm 31 and I absolutely considered that a "kiss off", socially polite but a "kiss off" none the less. 

@gingerella I'm not dismissing the harassment and violence transwomen/Girls often face, but I don't consider "willing to go out together in public" a victory for ANYONE. Noelle is a person not a science experiment. Saying a cis hetero guy being seen with her in public is a victory is a VERY low bar IMO. 

[Granny58]

13 hours ago, MegD said:

new part of the family basically and they have to be introduced to her

that was so bizarre.  My brothers and I have NEVER EVER discussed my vagina or their genitalia.   

[okerry]

36 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

One thing that struck me was that even though Noelle's match didn't want to date her romantically, I think it IS a win for her that she has a Herero guy who would like to get to know her better. To me that isn't a loss for her, it's a win! He is willing to go out with her in public as a friend and get to know her, even if just as a friend, I think that would be great for her to have a hetero male pal her own age. Go Noelle...!

The worst part of this would be Noelle thinking that because this guy is willing to go out with her as a friend - though in truth it's probably because he was set up by production to do that, but I digress - the worst part would be Noelle jumping to the conclusion that if he's open to being a friend, he's open to being a boyfriend.

That won't happen - not with a straight male. It's not "hate" or "transphobia." It's just nature and what they're physically attracted to. Do gay men "hate" women because they don't want to sleep with them? Of course not. It's just their nature and what they're physically attracted to.

30 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

that was so bizarre.  My brothers and I have NEVER EVER discussed my vagina or their genitalia.   

Exactly. Sisters do not introduce their vaginas to their brothers in any way, shape, or form - not without a huge load of lifelong problems as a result. Again, Jazz seems to have no idea what appropriate boundaries are.

ETA: Okay, Jazz, you insist you are a girl no different from any other. Well, these are the things girls live with. Boundaries become very important, both out of respect for yourself and for those around you. Can anyone imagine if a FTM transgender person said, "My penis is now part of the family and my sisters need to be introduced to it?" 

Edited July 21, 2017 by okerry

[Twopper]

1 hour ago, mangosplums said:

 I did have a bit of an issue with Jazz sharing the pride parade float with a survivor from Pulse but she was obviously asked to do so. 

I could be wrong about this, but I had the impression this was not an event with lots and lots of  floats.  Probably most floats belong to specific groups and the one she was on was for well-known people in the community. 

Normally I think the line about I don't want to date, but we could be friends is a "kiss off."  In the case of this reality show, I thought it might be a way to bring him into the show for some reason.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Twopper
adding a sentence

[Impatient]

I am going to watch the episode again but I do want to add a few points.
 

I do agree that Noelle got a brush off from the hetero guy  It is one of the reasons I wondered why the show isn't helping her be more feminine.  And how on earth are the producers of this show going to try to make it seem like the cute 19 year old boy who asked for Jazz's number, is going to pursue a romantic relationship with her?  I just do not think t is even possible and wonder what kind of manipulation this is.....

[ClareWalks]

9 minutes ago, Impatient said:

And how on earth are the producers of this show going to try to make it seem like the cute 19 year old boy who asked for Jazz's number, is going to pursue a romantic relationship with her?

It wasn't the 19-year-old dropout who got her number, it was the sophomore who loves kitties. Although yeah, that entire scene was quite staged.

[woodscommaelle]

There was a quick reaction shot of Noelle at Pride looking so fucking over it when yet another fan asked Jazz for a pic.  If there was a caption bubble above Noelle's head, it would have said 'come the fuck on!'

Didn't realize she wasn't on the float with Jazz.  Dislike :(

[mangosplums]

6 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

I worry about Noelle. Sure, she handles everything with aplomb but she also has a very flat affect. I'm not sure it's good to internalize things that much. Careless words she shrugs off, but I think there are deeper hurts that she should talk about. I hope she has the support she needs. 

I agree. I see a lot of people here praising Noelle, saying that she is handling things much better than Jazz, and that Jazz could take some lessons from her. I see it differently.

I may be wrong, but my impression of Noelle is that what people are taking as her mature attitude is really a symptom of a deep depression and a lack of emotion and hope. 

I think Jazz has crazy mood swings and is rude at times because she's fighting for herself, she has hopes and dreams, she has passion and desire inside her. Noelle seems a bit dead inside to me, that is why she seems so measured and reasonable. 

Edited July 21, 2017 by mangosplums

[Me from ME]

Quote

Maybe an episode where they go to an old fashioned charm school where they learn manners, how to sit and walk like a lady? 

Yes, yes, one thousand times yes! With an emphasis on table manners.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Me from ME
Fat fingered spelling mistake.

[SunnyBeBe]

I hope that I don't sound insensitive or out of the loop on this, but, I just can't understand why Jazz and some others on her show seem to think that any intelligent person would have no concern with a perspective mate not having female anatomy.  If you want to mate, it's important.  I wonder if they have any discussion of moderation in their judgments and how people aren't just crazy for not dating transgender individuals. 

[keetmommy]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I hope that I don't sound insensitive or out of the loop on this, but, I just can't understand why Jazz and some others on her show seem to think that any intelligent person would have no concern with a perspective mate not having female anatomy.  If you want to mate, it's important.  I wonder if they have any discussion of moderation in their judgments and how people aren't just crazy for not dating transgender individuals. 

I have thought same thing. I don't know many high school boys who are not part of the LGTB world not having an issue dating a trans girl. I also don't mean any disrespect by the comment but I was thinking same thing  the other night watching it.

[Otter]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I hope that I don't sound insensitive or out of the loop on this, but, I just can't understand why Jazz and some others on her show seem to think that any intelligent person would have no concern with a perspective mate not having female anatomy.  If you want to mate, it's important.  I wonder if they have any discussion of moderation in their judgments and how people aren't just crazy for not dating transgender individuals. 

If you're insensitive, than I am too.  It's baffling.  I just started watching this again and why I stopped midway through the first season was if anyone *was* baffled (which I was) we were labeled "haters".  I remember two scenes from the first season.  One was a friend of the twins who, just a kid, asked the twins questions about what being transgender meant.  Both kids jumped on their friend as if he was judging.  He wasn't!  The second was Jazz and Jeanette were having lunch at an outdoor cafe and some boys from Jazz's school walked by and didn't stop to ask Jazz out -- at least that's how Jeanette took it.  She jumped on them!   

I don't know why I watch it now.  

[ClareWalks]

Just now, Otter said:

The second was Jazz and Jeanette were having lunch at an outdoor cafe and some boys from Jazz's school walked by and didn't stop to ask Jazz out -- at least that's how Jeanette took it.  She jumped on them!   

She jumped on them because they called Jazz a tranny freak, or something like that, as they passed by.

[Otter]

Just now, ClareWalks said:

She jumped on them because they called Jazz a tranny freak, or something like that, as they passed by.

I'll defer to your memory, but if so, what a great teaching moment and isn't what this show is supposed to be about?  If Jazz is immature, so are the peers, especially 3 or 4 years ago.  If those boys said that, and I assume they did, Jeanette had no right to berate them.  She's the bully and if she puts her child out and I mean out, stuff happens.  Jazz at a tender age couldn't handle it then and can't handle it now.  Jeanette has, through this show and for her own grandioise before the show, put her child into the public eye like a two-headed cat or something.  Jazz couldn't consent to what was done to her -- she's a medical experiment.  And that's tragic.

[ClareWalks]

3 minutes ago, Otter said:

I'll defer to your memory, but if so, what a great teaching moment and isn't what this show is supposed to be about?  If Jazz is immature, so are the peers, especially 3 or 4 years ago.  If those boys said that, and I assume they did, Jeanette had no right to berate them.  

Yeah, Jazz told her mom to drop it immediately, I think Jeanette was bothered much more than Jazz was. Jazz was like "whatever, it happens." Seems like this season, Jazz would have to stand up and deliver A Big Speech, which makes it seem all the more staged.

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, mangosplums said:

I agree. I see a lot of people here praising Noelle, saying that she is handling things much better than Jazz, and that Jazz could take some lessons from her. I see it differently.

I may be wrong, but my impression of Noelle is that what people are taking as her mature attitude is really a symptom of a deep depression and a lack of emotion and hope. 

I think Jazz has crazy mood swings and is rude at times because she's fighting for herself, she has hopes and dreams, she has passion and desire inside her. Noelle seems a bit dead inside to me, that is why she seems so measured and reasonable. 

I don't know Noelle well enough to make that comment, but I don't think so. As someone with a naturally mellow/non reactive temperament, I have often been told I am "cold" or I don't care or I'm pretending to be happy.....I'm not someone that wears their emotion on their sleeve or goes up and down easily, but I am not depressed or anything of that sort. Depression is a serious concern with a lot of LGBT youth and I don't want to make light of it, but I don't see Noelle as depressed because of that. Maybe she's like me and is just more of a mellow person?

[stacyasp]

37 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don't know Noelle well enough to make that comment, but I don't think so. As someone with a naturally mellow/non reactive temperament, I have often been told I am "cold" or I don't care or I'm pretending to be happy.....I'm not someone that wears their emotion on their sleeve or goes up and down easily, but I am not depressed or anything of that sort. Depression is a serious concern with a lot of LGBT youth and I don't want to make light of it, but I don't see Noelle as depressed because of that. Maybe she's like me and is just more of a mellow person?

Maybe the problem is they are truly fighting biology!!! No one ever says that cause we have to tow the politically correct line.  Perhaps therapy and really deep therapy is called for not pretending you're something your not no Matter how much you want to believe things 

Edited July 22, 2017 by stacyasp

[RemoteControlFreak]

On 7/20/2017 at 10:41 PM, surveyandprotect1 said:

Good question, but no. I have a close friend who was featured on a major reality show and filled me in on all the secrets. Most reality shows work the same if they follow the format that I am Jazz follows. They use a fairly standardized filming sequence and production methodology. This show (Jazz)  in particular I know more about because I live right around the corner from where its filmed.

Correct. I have some behind-the-scenes experience with reality shows as well and you are correct about the format and production timing and approach.

[chickenella]

9 hours ago, woodscommaelle said:

Didn't realize she wasn't on the float with Jazz.  Dislike :(

I just re-watched this tonight, didn't notice it before, maybe because she was wearing the sunglasses. I agree that Noelle should have been the float, she is just as much a star as Jazz. Wasn't Jazz's sister next to her on the float? Should have been Noelle.

How old is Noelle? Is she a few years older than Jazz? She strikes me as such. And I also thing she's just mellow, not depressed. I hope I'm right. But if she is depressed, I wonder if it might be an effect from the hormone therapy? She must be taking some sort of hormones, she's got breasts.