Impatient

Ginergella, I think you might be off-base about this. I do not think you can link home-schooling to therapy and weight loss. She needs to go to school, go to therapy and lose 30 pounds. Period. IF they say "You get to do home-schooling after demonstrate maturity in these two other areas, they are still conceding. And then, if she continues to go to school but doesn't lost the weight or refuses therapy, they are stuck, because hey, she is being punished for her immaturity already. In fact these are separate areas of her life. Her parents have invested sweat equity and thousands and thousands of dollars in her transition. If she is going to bail on it now (and it is certainly her right to do that if she has changed her mind), she cannot have it be made known to her parents via this passive aggressive behavior. Therapy first and foremost. Jazz is avoiding some really serious discussions and they are not going to go away. Then diet. And if there is any school left at that point, they can discuss it if she can make a concrete argument for why she wants to stop attending classes with her peers. And comes up with a concrete plan to advance her education. But this? No. No dice.

you know, I don't think the TLC money is all that huge. what, maybe $400,000/year? OK, that is a lot of money, but it somes at the cost of opening their child's transgenderism to the world to see. It will contribute to a trust fund as a sort of insurance policy for Jazz, but let's say there are ultimately 5 seasons..... 2 million bucks before taxes. Not that much, really. And I there money for the other kids? I don't know. Seems lie money cannot be the motivation here. That said, it is STILL time to walk away from this nightmare and go into therapy. Al of them, but ESPECIALLY Jeanette. OH and I will say it again. I used to l like Nicole. Not any more.

kylies-lips, how did you find Noelle and Jay on Instagram? Do you know their last names?

I do not think I have ever once heard Jazz mention college except in terms of that's what she will do next. Without any thought as to why or where or what for. Greg mentioned that a gap year might be necessary for Jazz, especially if she has surgery. I think a gap year is necessary for jazz even if she never has surgery. She is so developmentally delayed that I do not think she could possibly do well in college without an additional year of preparation. And that year should be spent doing some kind of volunteer/service work. Building Habitat for Humanity houses? Or working with homeless children? Or with battered women? Something that would drive home to Jazz how privileged she is and how unimportant her problems are in the vast scheme of things.

When Jazz and her Grandma were at the butterfly garden together, her grandmother asks whether the date with Victoria is a sexual date. And Jazz recoils in horror. And at first I thought, "well sure, she's embarrassed that her grandmother is talking to her about a potential affair. She's defining some boundaries." But then! She actually says, "do i seem like a sexual being to you?" She is an almost 17 year old teenager. The very definition of a sexual being. With absolutely no boundaries, perfectly willing to discuss whom she is attracted to, but unwilling to make a choice. Unwilling to say, "i am gay." Or "i am a straight girl. I am attracted to boys." Because i think deep down, Jazz thinks she is a fraud and doesn't deserve to be attracted to anyoe. what if, after all this time, all this hormone blocking (why does Jazz mispronounce the word hormone, by the way? She says "hahr-mone", not hormone. Weird), all of this synthetic estrogen, Jazz realizes she is a straight male? Interested in straight girls? Essentially, these scenes get to the very heart of Jeanette's science experiment: has she created a situation in which Jazz is forced to live a celibate, asexual life? And now, not even able to masturbate? And after so much inappropriate behavior, even being present for doctor's examinations of Jazz's genitalia, Jeanette has the audacity to say, "(discussion of orgasms) is a private thing. I don't feel comfortable discussing that, Jazz doesn't feel comfortable discussing that...." I felt like saying, "Eunuch production complete, eh Jeanette? Now she can be a pretty china doll. Who never leaves the display case. Because you are now initiating a plan of shame." They need to go in to family therapy. The show should stop. All of it should just stop.

Scarlett45, I am far from being a prude but can honestly tell you I do not care what my vagina looks like, have never discussed my vagina even one time with any other women and have never once had anyone bring their vagina up as a topic of conversation.

I really enjoyed Griffin and Sander in this episode. And Ari too, who was being very subtle in trying to encourage Jazz to occupy her mind with things non-transgender. When they were in New York and met up after the Doctor's appointment they all agreed there had been too much discussion of vaginas and they would go ride on the carousel together. And there they are on the carousel and the first thing we hear from Jeanette? Imagine jazz on this carousel with a tissue expander in place. I cannot imagine how frustrating this whole dynamic is for the twins and for Ari. Makes me want to slap them.

Please forgive if too many words! The peritoneum is the membranous wall lining the abdominal cavity. The colon is not the peritoneum. Dr. Ting said to Jazz, "you have enough tissue to build labia. That as what I was mainly interested in." He did NOT say, as Jazz reported, that she has the ideal amount to make a vagina. He told her she would not be appropriate for a tissue expander, which is still preferable to a peritoneal graft (the latter is quite an invasive procedure), presumably because her penis and testicles are simply too small. Now I did look up the literature on the use of peritoneal grafts to build vaginas; it was developed for women who have congenital conditions in which they are born without vaginas. A long-term study of 68 such women found general satisfaction with their vaginas, but they do close up if not dilated daily; the literature warned of its being treated by the body, as wound repair. Infection is also an issue. And the study was not all that long term (10 years I think); I would imagine that with time there are abdominal issues with scar tissue from the peritoneum graft. The issue with weight was not addressed correctly. Greg and Jeannette asked Dr. Ting if Jazz's weight was an issue that might prohibit her from having the surgery. Dr. Ting said he had performed SRS on people whose BMIs were higher than Jazz's. But that is not Marci Bower's issue. She has emphasized that Jazz would be, by far, the youngest and most suppressed person to undergo SRS. That in order to get IRB approval (institutional review board) to allow such a ground-breaking, and ethically questionable surgery in their hospital, on such a young person, would require the letters from 2 therapists and normal weight (among other things) to assure the reviewers that Jazz was of sound mind. I am sure if she were self-harming by cutting for example, that would also be grounds for denying approval for the surgery. A binge eater unwilling to address her addiction in therapy is not exactly a safe bet for long-term success. As to jazz's weight. She is, when at her peak weight, significantly more overweight than 30 pounds. She could stand to lose 50 pounds. I know this because I have been her size. I am thinner now, but could still stand to lose 30 pounds. But I am at the upper end of middle-aged, and that IS a very different thing from being 50 pounds overweight at 16. It IS annoying that they edit so extensively. It is difficult to get an idea of jazz's weight issues because from one scene to the next her weight can vary by 20 pounds! I am sure she has lost some of the weight, but we never see her at a normal weight for a girl her age. I don't like Jazz's friends. Michaela, and Nicole and the gay guys from the LGBT support group ---- all so consumed with their own agendas. Not genuine people in the slightest. Michaela seems so much older than these teens are. And the extremely theatrical make-up is just a shock every time they do a close-up. Is she some actress they have brought in for a story line? Very odd. Ahhh. Have now just googled Michaela Paige and see that she is indeed a ringer brought in for the addition of drama. Irritating. The guys who dared her to drop her plaster piece onto the ground and shattering it, were just so irritating all the way around. Do any of these kids respect ANYTHING? Including their own efforts, their own art? Admittedly, it is decades since I was 16, but seriously, I would NEVER have dared her to do that, no matter how desperately I was trying to be cool. And I would have said "No! Be careful! You might drop it!!!" How awful to be so added, so young. This is petty and superficial, but Jazz's lips are driving me crazy. She seems obsessed with pursing her lips, with smacking her lips, with caressing her lips. At some point, I suspect, someone told her that her mouth is an attractive feature and she is now fixated on it. It has become a tick, and she needs to lose it. This applies to her hair too. When she was playing basketball with her dad, her hair was dirty and in the way. she doesn't seem to understand, braids, and buns and pony tails are appropriate for different activities. In a lab course in school for example, or working with food at an after school job, she would have to set her hair aside, and remove it as an attention-getting device. As with so much in jazz's life, setting aside attention-getting devices is simply not tolerated. That said, Victoria strikes me as a nice girl I guess, but I agree with jazz, she is intimidating. Not a good match for Jazz. Jazz likes boys. Victoria likes girls. WHY is jazz scarfing down French fries on her "date"? And Michaela commenting that watching Jazz opening up as being a beautiful thing seemed bizarre. Jazz's friend from middle school who was along on that date was by far the nicest girl there. I am surprised the producers cannot fathom nice genuine warmth.

Just wanted to add I think Greg is feeling manipulated by Jeannette. When she revealed Marci booked an OR for a tissue expander, Greg looked to be experiencing controlled fury. He is more vocal now with the doctors, he is more prominent in all these discussions. He is clearly considering possible outcomes. He is not allowing Jeannette and Jazz to steamroll him as he has n the past. I hope he pushes for them all to get FAMILY therapy. It is the single-most important thing he could do for ALL his kids. Is Dr. Ting trans?

Jeanette's mom fascinates me. She is obviously a smart woman. But 2 things about her always distract me: the wig, of course. But more than anything, the crossed eyes. Can she see anything? I agree that the other kids are starting to express how ridiculous this whole fixation on all things trans is..... They should be in family therapy. Together. ALL of them

I don't think so Gingerella. Marci bowers herself, has fathered children (no other verb that would be less charged: sired? Produced?), has been married to a woman as a man, and then later as a woman. Her own story is far from routine. And I would imagine Jazz and her family seemed refreshingly "normal", compared to some of the drama I am sure her other patients bring to her.

Doodlebug, that is so true and I confess I never really thought much about it: the vagina does NOT have a great deal of nervous innervation. I should have thought about that (tampons really are undetectable after insertion). The peritoneum, on the other hand, is very well innervated. I wonder if Dr. Ting or Dr. Bowers have addressed that in their discussions with Jazz and her family? By the way, to those who think it is disrespectful to call Marci Bowers by her first nae, I couldn't disagree more strongly. For the longest time, doctors insisted on being called by their formal noames,, but sociologists quite rightly pointed out that this creates a barrier between doctor and patient. Makes it harder for empathy tp exist between them. if I were Marci bowers, I would want my patients to use my first name.

Don't remember exactly who said what, but just adding my 2 cents worth. First, as a geneticist, i can tell you for sure, there is no way to say "puberty started a year earlier". Also, just because a sibling undergoes puberty at a particular age, does not at all suggest another sibling is going to experience the identical schedule. There is no evidence to suggest age of puberty onset is determined by a single gene. So it is multi-allelic, which means all kinds of things (modifiers) can contribute to variation. Secondly, the statement (no matter how forcefully made), that puberty begins in the brain, is misleading. There ARE neurosecretory cells in the brain that do release hormones and hormone releasing factors, so I am not arguing that, but that is a far cry from suggesting puberty is an innate program regulated almost exclusively by the brain. The fact is we really don't know all that much about the neurohormonal program. We don't know how testosterone interacts with those cells or what the interplay over time is. To suggest otherwise is just, forgive me, annoying. It implies some superior knowledge that does not (yet) exist. This is evident in one other fact we occasionally discuss, namely Jazz has many male features that appear to be growing more pronounced, despite being a flawless trans girl: her lack of a q-ratio curve, for example. She complains of having a large midriff and no waist, often. This suggests the female pattern of tiny waist, wide hips (the ratio being the "Q-ratio") may be genetically determined apart from fetal differentiation of sex. In other words, how a woman (or man) is built may relate to factors that interact with hormones but are not solely due to hormones alone. Her facial features are becoming more masculine. Her brow line for example, is heavier and more pronounced than it was and more pronounced than normally seen in a woman. I mention these things because they should be considered in decisions Jazz makes, to be more and more feminine (see SRS below). That is the reason I personally am fascinated by this. It is, unbelievably, a human experiment on public display!!!!! Think of what might happen if a researcher wrote a grant proposal that said, "we will program a 3 year old child to become the gender opposite that determined by sex chromosome contribution, using synthetic hormones at puberty and hormone blockers (for endogenously derived hormones) prior to, and during that time." The world would accuse that researcher of playing God, of being Dr. Frankenstein, or Hitler. But the parents are able to make these decisions with absolutely no external over-sight or regulation! I suspect the enormity of it all is weighing on Greg and he is in an untenable situation: either capitulate to his wife and child, and allow irreversible mutilation, or put an end to it all (by refusing the surgery), and at least minimize the criminal liability that I suspect will begin ten years or so down the line. His insistence that Jazz is not yet mature enough stems from his observation, I believe, that he is allowing something to happen to her, that she has no understanding of, but that he DOES understand. Years from now, Jazz accusing him (you KNEW and you let it all happen anyway!!!!) must be haunting his dreams. There is so much research, reported in peer-reviewed literature, that shows that people who have SRS commit suicide at rates that exceed those of trans people who do not have the surgery. Why is this never ever discussed? Do Jeanette and TLC believe the ONLY acceptable end to the series is Jazz, shiny new "beautiful" vagina installed, married to a cis heterosexual man, with three children (from ova donated by Ari) in tow? How about the end of the series being, Jazz decides to go into intensive therapy for 5 or 10 years, and contemplates what she wants to devote her life to? Without having SRS?

So was there no episode this week?

I too am a scientist and was appalled at the arrogance of Jazz and Noelle, criticizing the work of the very experienced and reasonable scientist. So much so that it was the first time I found myself disliking Noelle.