S11.E01: Great Scot! The Hurricanes Are Coming / S11.E2: A Sheep Is Going to Eat Us!

[AZChristian]

But what's striking is that when they were on the bus and Jen said that, the kids were happy, but noticeably behaving (compared to what we'd seen them doing before).  So not only were the kids happy, so was everyone around them (including tour guides and other tourists).  As I mentioned upthread, I've been on that tour bus.  Adults cannot even hold kids on their laps; to me it was striking that Will and Zoe were not only not standing up, they were sitting in their own seats, and they were not pitching fits or disobeying.  So they CAN behave.  They just don't see a lot of need to do so unless their choices truly are, "Follow the rules, or you don't get to do this activity."

[Snow8585]

Or follow the rules and you do not get ice cream.

[UniqueHandle]

@TwirlyGirly and @SMama 3/4 of my kids are the same way. Super great eaters. I remember when my oldest son was in preschool. On the first day, the class had to introduce themselves and say what their favorite food was. All these cute little 3 year olds said they liked grapes and cookies and hot dogs. When it was my sons turn, he stood up and said, "my name is Alex, I am tree (three) and I like eggplant parmajohn." 

I think the servings at restaurants are way too big. I usually order off of the appetizer menu or the kids menu, and it's usually not an issue. The last time we went to Disney, I asked if I could order off the kids menu and I was told it would not be a problem but I would be charged regular menu price for my meal.  It then became an internal brain battle of; do I pay $18 for a hamburger the size of a quarter or $18 for a burger I will never finish? 

Re: Jen and Bill's parenting... I wonder if the kids behave differently when the cameras are rolling. Chelsea from Teen Mom 2 bitched about discussed not long ago that Aubrey is a perfect angel 99% of the time until the cameras come out and then she acts out. She likes to show off for company. I know as a kid, I was the opposite. My brother and I were complete jerks when we were alone with mom but as soon as my dad came home or we were around other people, we were the best behaved kids in the world. My kids are the same way. Everywhere we go I hear "your kids are so good" "your kids have such good manners" "your kids are so polite"... I have no idea what people are talking about. All they do is argue with each other all day long. However, bribing your kids with food, especially the kid that is as big as you are already, is probably not the best idea. If you want to bribe, find another currency... stickers, kiddie tattoos, etc. 

[Libby]

I don't think that it matters if TLC is purposely showing the childrens' bad behavior for ratings or not. Are they purposely showing Bill and Jen not knowing how to deal with the situation? Do Bill and Jen secretly handle the situation great off camera? I don't think so. There is no way that Jennifer Arnold would let herself be protrayed in a bad light if she knew any better. Children misbehave sometimes. Parents rarely seem to do nothing to improve the situation, like Bill and Jen.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Libby

[SunnyBeBe]

On 9/28/2017 at 5:11 AM, RemoteControlFreak said:

Ages 4 and 6 is not too young to be taught manners and respect, but it may be too late. These children are undisciplined brats because their parents have not taught them to behave otherwise.  Bill and Jen present good behavior as an option, not as a requirement.  This never works.  It seems like the parents care more about having their kids like them and be their friends and so they are afraid to impose negative consequences for bad behavior.  The fallout from this will only get worse as the kids get older.

I wonder if they ever insist that the kids pay attention and comply with what the parent is saying.  The kids just seem to be oblivious to the fact that a parent is speaking to them.  After ruling out hearing problems, I'd address that pronto.  I doubt their teacher tolerate that at school.  

Edited October 1, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[BizBuzz]

Hello All!  It's been a while since we have had lively discussions in this forum, eh?  Let's remember that we can attack the show and not the posters.  Please remember our #1 rule at PTV ... BE CIVIL.  For some reason, this show likes to bring out strong viewpoints from both sides, please remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and as long as posters are not attacking other posters, we are ok.  Carry on.

[floridamom]

Will is 7 years old....is he in first or second grade at school? Is he in a regular classroom or a specialized one because of his start in life? Anyone know?

Zoe is 4, so she should be in pre K...what about her> These kids can't seem to speak...why the need for speech therapy? Thanks for filling me in.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, floridamom said:

Will is 7 years old....is he in first or second grade at school? Is he in a regular classroom or a specialized one because of his start in life? Anyone know?

Zoe is 4, so she should be in pre K...what about her> These kids can't seem to speak...why the need for speech therapy? Thanks for filling me in.

It was my understanding that the speech therapy was due to developmental delays, plus, English was not their first language. 

[camom]

A lot of kids get speech therapy at school, so that isn't a big red flag to me.

In a preview, Will said that other kids called him a baby.  I doubt it was because of his size.  I think it's more likely because he acts like a toddler and sucks his thumb.  I hope the parents don't assume everything is a bias against their size.  

[Mindthinkr]

I just had a 2 and 4 year old over for dinner. Their parents have great manners and are very cognizant of imparting them into their children. They prompted with the please, thank you etc although the kids have gotten the knack of how  they are expected to act and try their best. At times they might seem a bit unruly. They are kids. Their minds are growing at Warp speed. No parent can helicopter without becoming the bad guy or just exhausted. It takes consistently, not a prompt or correction here and there. First and foremost parents need to set the example. They need to use please and thank you. Jen and Bill seem as tho they know how to handle themselves personally and professionally. I'm sure at some point Zoey and Will will get a clue. When it's no longer cute. 

[Absolom]

I'm around quite a few young children and Will did not act like the average upper middle class 7 year olds I see regularly.  He didn't even make it to the five year olds a lot of the time.  Bill didn't help at all by not moving to intervene with things like the cannon plus egging on the pirate thing at the tea party.  Not cute Bill.  Zoe's running off is common for two and a half to three year olds.  Last year I read an internet rumor that Will needed to repeat kindergarten.  I don't remember where any more.  

[Libby]

I believe that in the Houston episode, which is current, Will is 7 1/2 and Zoey is about to turn 6. When the Scotland episode began, words appeared on the screen that said "18 months ago". At the point that the Scotland/England episodes were filmed, I think that Will had just turned 6 and Zoey was 4 1/2.

I agree that Will acts extremely young for his age. I just wanted to point out that in the Scotland/England episodes the kids were 18 months younger than they are now.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Libby

[Absolom]

Thanks.  I don't remember their ages unless it's in front of me.  So Will was a year or two behind my expectations in Scotland and Zoe was a year and a half to two years behind.  That is not shocking for kids with their backgrounds.  The parental behavior is still worrisome because it won't lead to progress for the kids in the form of improved behavior.   Hopefully as the kids have progressed in school the parents have learned some new techniques.  My daughter has begun volunteering in the classroom and is having to learn to control groups of five or so kids and can see how her son stacks up against kids his same age.  It's made her less tolerant and she wasn't a pushover.  I remember Will taking food from the pantry at the same time as grandson.  Will was 4 and grandson was 18 months maybe.  Jen let Will keep his ill-gotten gains and eat them.  Daughter took them away and said no crackers for you until tomorrow. 

[kokapetl]

Expecting Jen to order from the kids menu seems kind of degrading.  

For children aged 4 and 6, I don’t think they were that unruly. And I can’t honestly fault their parents for their parenting style, the children spent the most critical part of their childhoods in third world orphanages. I imagine instructions from a parent that are bluntly “shut up and sit in your spot” would damage trust from a child that was basically warehoused. 

[skippy]

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 9:07 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I can't imagine a child directly disobeying a parent, grandparent and a stranger who is directing them in front of their parent.  It really boggles the mine. (They can't get away with that crap at school.) 

Really?  Well take it from a teacher, most public schools today have no discipline.  Most administrators don't support a teacher who tries to discipline, so the teacher gives up. Too many administrators and Boards of Education are afraid of the parents of misbehaving children.  Yes, they can get away with that crap at school.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, skippy said:

Really?  Well take it from a teacher, most public schools today have no discipline.  Most administrators don't support a teacher who tries to discipline, so the teacher gives up. Too many administrators and Boards of Education are afraid of the parents of misbehaving children.  Yes, they can get away with that crap at school.

I've seen that with high school students, but, not little kids their age. 

[SMama]

I have, sadly since first grade. And yes, a lot of administrators are afraid of the parents of unruly kids. Right after banning a group of incredibly disruptive children from a field trip, they were allowed to attend. I was a chaperone and let me tell you, they ruined the experience for all the other kids. My daughter is naturally well behaved (not taking any credit for her calm nature), perhaps because of what happened during her sixteen months in an orphanage. Kids like that really upset her, and it is why I chaperone on her field trips.

[Whyyouneedaname]

36 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I've seen that with high school students, but, not little kids their age. 

I have relatives that teach kindergarten & some of the language she tells is heard in her classroom would make a sailor blush.....not that it goes unpunished but that's what they hear at home and think nothing of repeating.

[SunnyBeBe]

13 minutes ago, Whyyouneedaname said:

I have relatives that teach kindergarten & some of the language she tells is heard in her classroom would make a sailor blush.....not that it goes unpunished but that's what they hear at home and think nothing of repeating.

OMG.  That's pretty wild.  Kids repeat what they hear at home. That's for sure.  Sometimes, it's innocent though, because they don't realize what they are saying. 

[Mindthinkr]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

OMG.  That's pretty wild.  Kids repeat what they hear at home. That's for sure.  Sometimes, it's innocent though, because they don't realize what they are saying. 

When I hear a four year old utter profanity my head spins like Linda Blair. You said what? (That last question I keep to myself lest I encourage said child to repeat it.)

[BitterApple]

On Sunday, October 01, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Absolom said:

 Hopefully as the kids have progressed in school the parents have learned some new techniques.  

I think Jen's biggest mistake is she over analyzes everything and talks too damn much. She needs to stop negotiating, stop giving options and stop counting to three a hundred times before her kid will listen. Just tell Zoe to get her butt off the floor and if she doesn't, put her in the stroller. If she cries, so what, she'll live. I know they mean well, but they give those kids way too much power. 

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I think Jen's biggest mistake is she over analyzes everything and talks too damn much. She needs to stop negotiating, stop giving options and stop counting to three a hundred times before her kid will listen. Just tell Zoe to get her butt off the floor and if she doesn't, put her in the stroller. If she cries, so what, she'll live. I know they mean well, but they give those kids way too much power. 

Amen.  I feel like no one has ever looked at them in the eye and said when mommy/daddy speak to you they mean business.  When your kids ignore you, there world needs to shut down until things are set into perspective.  This can be done calmly and reasonably.  It's like they are scared of imposing themselves on the kids. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[hoosier80]

It's one thing to want your kids to be happy all the time, but when their behavior could cause physical injury or damage to their surroundings (stores, castle antiques, etc.), then it's a problem.  If they grow up to be running around, doing whatever they want (except when it benefits them - bribed into behaving), it'll be detrimental to them.  I could see other kids, teachers, future employers avoiding them, which would not make them happy in the long run.   I understand that they want to make the kids lives better.   Their are counting to 3, but what happens if they get to 4?   Didn't seem like much of anything.  I agree that Zoe shouldn't have had ice cream.  If she started to cry and have a hissy fit, oh well.  That's the consequences when you don't pay attention to me or daddy (or misbehave).  Would have been a huge lesson for her.

My brother remarked a while back that when our parents said to behave, we knew exactly when we had better stop whatever we were doing.  Some places we weren't even told we had to behave - it was expected.   Mom said she started in really early with the discipline.  Learned quickly never to do whatever it was we did again.  Most of the time we could tell from a look or the sound of our parents' voices - time to knock it off or there will be consequences.  We had privileges taken away, not promised if we were well behaved we'd get something.  Sometimes we'd get something for good behavior, but it was never promised in advance.

[lookeyloo]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Amen.  I feel like no one has ever looked at them in the eye and said when mommy/daddy speak to you they mean business.  When your kids ignore you, there world needs to shut down until things are set into perspective.  This can be done calmly and reasonably.  It's like they are scared of imposing themselves on the kids. 

It seems to me and my friends that modern parenting is all about talk talk talk and choices choices choices. We are older and we parented differently.  Our children fall into the same way Jen parents.  I deal with my grandchildren the way I dealt with their father and his brother.  No means No.  I say what I mean and mean what I say.  They are mostly well behaved with me until a parent shows up and then the granddaughter has a meltdown.  And then there is talking talking talking blah blah blah.  

[SunnyBeBe]

23 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

It seems to me and my friends that modern parenting is all about talk talk talk and choices choices choices. We are older and we parented differently.  Our children fall into the same way Jen parents.  I deal with my grandchildren the way I dealt with their father and his brother.  No means No.  I say what I mean and mean what I say.  They are mostly well behaved with me until a parent shows up and then the granddaughter has a meltdown.  And then there is talking talking talking blah blah blah.  

You may be right.  Only, the meltdowns when parents walk in don't work with me. I say, Oh no....you don't get away with that with me and you're not going to do it now that your parents are here either.  And they learn it doesn't work, so it eventually stops.  Of course, the parents get miffed, but, that's okay.  lol  Their child's welfare is more important than their hurt feelings.  

Edited October 4, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[lookeyloo]

13 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

You may be right.  Only, the meltdowns when parents walk in don't work with me. I say, Oh no....you don't get away with that with me and you're not going to do it now that your parents are here either.  And they learn it doesn't work, so it eventually stops.  Of course, the parents get miffed, but, that's okay.  lol  Their child's welfare is more important than their hurt feelings.  

I'm glad that works for you.  My daughter in law is their mother.  It is different with mothers that are not actual daughters.  At least for me. We get along fabulously but I have never interfered with her parenting.  She is very generous with me as far as the children go.  Never has limited me in any way.  So, on that one I'll just leave it to her.   As long as they behave on my watch I'm good.

[Mindthinkr]

28 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

You may be right.  Only, the meltdowns when parents walk in don't work with me. I say, Oh no....you don't get away with that with me and you're not going to do it now that your parents are here either.  And they learn it doesn't work, so it eventually stops.  Of course, the parents get miffed, but, that's okay.  lol  Their child's welfare is more important than their hurt feelings.  

I remember a tantrum my kid did once at the beginning of a grocery isle. Full blown fit. I told her to behave, that she was welcome to throw a fit if she wanted to, but I was here to shop and off slowly I went. It lasted all of a few seconds until she realized that it wasn't going to get her what she wanted. She quit and caught right up to me before the end of the isle.  End of hissy fits. 

[Hpmec]

Some of the posters here would be aghast if they witnessed the behavior in a public school classroom today. I taught full time back in the 1980's and returned to the classroom as a substitute in a suburban "Blue Ribbon" district ten years ago. In the last decade, I've noticed a decidedly downward spiral in student behavior. It doesn't matter if I'm in Kindergarten or 12th grade. Too many kids are simply out of control. They get up and wander around at will. They waste a tremendous amount of time chatting with friends, texting under the table, and generally being defiant. There are few, if any, consequences. The district has even given in to all the nonsense by removing traditional desks in some elementary classrooms and replacing them with low lying tables scattered haphazardly around the room and big bouncy balls for the kids to "sit" on --I kid you not. Kids are rarely even expected to sit and do their own work. Working (or rather not working) "with a partner" is the norm. Lax parents and permissive teachers and school administrators empower kids to misbehave. Jen and Bill are no different from many parents today who think the world of their kids and are loathe to set and enforce limits. I didn't notice much change  in Will and Zoey's behavior between the time of the overseas vacation and the 18 months later at home episode. Zoey, however, is exceptionally bright and seems to have learned some self discipline. Will just runs rampant-- and it isn't a pretty sight. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Hpmec

[LadyStClaire]

On September 20, 2017 at 5:43 PM, alegtostandon said:

Will thought the Castle Tour Guide took them to the dining room to serve them lunch-lol! That kid is always ready to eat.

ITA that dressing Zoey in the princess dress with the tiara gave the kids the idea that this was a Disney castle with the Disney princesses roaming around.  It's sad, both Bill and Jen are afraid to discipline Zoey because of her 'meltdowns'. 

My nephew, who is now 10, sucked his thumb whenever he was tired or nervous til he was 8. I use to tell my brother I was afraid of other kids making fun of him. They tried to break him of it. All of a sudden, one day, he stopped. I'm sure he noticed other kids were not sucking their thumbs. 

My sister went to Scotland earlier this year. She loved the Haggis. Now I know why, she loves liver & liverwurst, I cannot stomach either one. 

The scenes in Houston broke my heart. When we were kids, we lived in Houston in an area called Nottingham Forest. This was the mid 60's. I remember one hurricane, I think it was Inez. Our street flooded, my mom was pregnant & due any day & my dad was unable to get back into town. I just remember dead armadillos floating around.

They must also be afraid to discipline Will, who needs it much more than Zoey does! "Chip chop settle down" should not have been tolerated, as well as him messing with the cannon! Not to mention how he acted in London! Going to throw a stick into that fountain as well as running back and forth, when his grandfather wanted to take a picture of him and Zoey.

[LadyStClaire]

On September 22, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Kid said:

I totally agree. Those kids are cute but they were out of control and that isn't cute.  Especially Zoe. She and I would've had a come to Jesus moment.

With all due respect, Will was just as out of control, touching things he had no business touching! The cannon was one such object. 

[BitterApple]

I think the Scotland trip was just an epic disaster no matter which way you cut it. I understand they need things to film, but this is one of those instances where Jen should've either gone on her own, or taken Bill with her and flown the grandparents in to watch the kids. Will and Zoe were most definitely poorly behaved but there was also nothing on the itinerary that would've appealed to small children. 

[LadyStClaire]

On September 27, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Snow8585 said:

This episode was worse than the first. Although London and Scotland are lovely places.  If TLC is showing us the best this family has to offer than one can only imagine what goes on in their very expensive 2.1 million dollar home when the cameras are not rolling. And it's not about the travel. Will had no interest in engaging with his parents during what could have been a teachable moment using the map even before they went on the trip.  He is better behaved than Zoey now and that is sad. Jen and Bill use food to bribe the kids and that is disgraceful at this point. All Jen and Bill do is make excuses for very rude, disrespectful,uncontrollable , poor behavior. If this behavior is related to the kids' Achon condition and developmental delays, Jen is and has been in the best position to get treatment for them. And whatever she is doing, it isn't working.   I believe that this is it folks, Jen and Bill feel they are doing a great job raising their kids and their kids are fabulous. Jen and Bill are not going to change. Jen will work hard getting acclimated in a new job and Bill will do whatever he feels like doing. I do not believe they will ever get control of the kids now and be able to teach them proper behavior and manners. Those kids are in for a rough ride and no amount of fancy tea parties or travel or toys or food will fix that.

You are so on point, with this comment!! 

[Sommer]

The name should be changed to  The Theme Couple.all the "essentially seemingly exponentially predilection ugh I can't and Will spitting at his dad and hitting his mom and punched the table saying "I'm not going anywhere" was scary. But they again pretended like he never acted like that before. And all the Whooooaaaaa William and Yeaahhhhhh William!!! The pressure Jen is under to keep her everything is perfect persona must be awful for her and Bill letting those kids walk on countertops and laughing when Jen walked in on that she was soooo pissed bet she ripped him a new one when the crew left!! They keep,insisting Will puts others before himself and I'm like is this the same show? He won't even share a plastic shovel or book with Zoey he runs the entire house 

[humbleopinion]

Will is the emperor with no clothes...Bill's mother sees it but is hesitant to call the parents out to start disciplining so she just fades into the background...

Bill's dad eggs Will on and Bill's stepmom mistakens their small stature as a reason to continue to baby both kids, both are unhelpful.

Bratty behavior looks ugly on TV.

[Sommer]

I agree Humble, I did see Bills stepmom tell Zoey to stop with the grapes in Bills mouth she told Zoey to eat her food. They do baby them for sure. Bill is so strange with the hovering over these kids whenever they are eating. He won't eat on camera anymore and acts weird with food too. Instead he hovers over them like they are 2 years old. I have not seen one episode where him and Jen let those kids just be yet in their side interview the gush how the kids have become "so independent"! Huh??  Let them play for gods sakes let them eat in peace. Its awful. I can't believe the million dollar mansion they bought in Florida for 4 little people. Not being mean it's just that's a lot of house to be hovering in one room over the two angels all day. Will was already destroying the crown molding in the Houston house crashing into it riding his tricycle inside all the time and throwing toys and no one said a word ever. She should stop with all her elaborate themed parties these two won't even remember she wants to be sure people see it. Those kids and adults were coworkers and their kids Zoey didn't know not one of them they would come up to her and awkwardly pet her. A pet themed tea party the kid had tea with Jen one time!  And Bill should probably keep his "pixie haircut addiction" to himself he lied to Jen and that haircut ages her and makes Zoey look like Will jr.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Sommer

[walnutqueen]

There's a wall of difference between "crown molding" and baseboards.  ;-)

I remember lots of thing from my early childhood; no reason to think these kids will develop amnesia and forget every single thing their parents did for them.  Besides, they can always roll the tape (this version of home movies).  Many of us go through a shallow phase when we try to forget or diminish our parents' efforts, but then we grow up and appreciate the little moments of joy - even amidst the most trying of childhood times.  These kids may be coddled or even spoiled (I have no insight), but they certainly don't rise to the level of total little monsters (and I DO have some insight into that!).  I highly doubt they are bad citizens in the making ...  ;-)

Some people like pixie cuts.  Perhaps Bill is one of them.  Some don't.  No need to paint Bill as a liarface, or bring back hairgate yet again.  As Joey would say, "It's a moo point".

I think the kids are young enough and well adjusted enough to make the move without too much angst & drama - gators in the swimming pool be damned.

Edited January 20, 2018 by walnutqueen

[AZChristian]

11 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

There's a wall of difference between "crown molding" and baseboards.  ;-)

Thank you!

[Snow8585]

On 1/20/2018 at 10:01 AM, humbleopinion said:

Bratty behavior looks ugly on TV.

I hope Jen and Bill realize that their shelf life on TV is almost over.  Jen and Bill have accomplished what they wanted from life and they should get off TV for the sake of their family.  If they do not, then its about the money. They could easily keep fans up to speed on social media. But they do not get paid $$$$$$ for that.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Snow8585
add something

[Absolom]

I fear it's been about the money and "fame" for a long time now.  A few episodes, a season or two at most, is when it's about the lofty goal of educating the audience about little people.  Besides the Roloffs had already been there and done that.  And that is if they accept the production team's bait of that's why they're producing the show.  It isn't.  It's all about money from step one with TLC and the production company.  They left the learning behind long ago. 

[BitterApple]

9 hours ago, Snow8585 said:

I hope Jen and Bill realize that their shelf life on TV is almost over.  Jen and Bill have accomplished what they wanted from life and they should get off TV for the sake of their family.  If they do not, then its about the money. They could easily keep fans up to speed on social media. But they do not get paid $$$$$$ for that.

I agree. As with any family-based reality show, the love affair wears off when the kids outgrow the cutesy stage and their made-for-tv antics are no longer funny. The Kleins have reached that expiration date. I'm sure they've read the barrage of negative comments they've received, so if they continue to do the show despite Will and Zoe now being the target of criticism, then yes, 100% it's all about the money.

Edited January 22, 2018 by BitterApple

[Honey]

As a rule I don't particularly care for kids.  I did at one point like Will and Zoey, but not anymore. They are just straight up brats.  It's too bad because it clearly isn't their fault, I don't think either one of them have ever heard the word no.  Both of them need a good spanking. I don't even think I can watch the show anymore because they annoyed me so much.