S07.E20: 'Til DeAth Do Us Part

[Spencer Hastings]

19 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Welp just in case anyone doubted it, there's an article now on ew with an interview with Marlene and the first question she makes an explanation that originally she wanted Wren to be AD and then tries to explain why she retcon the whole thing that ad had to be a series regular or something that makes no sense because Alex wasn't a series regular.  Yes she's Spencer's twin but.. we haven't seen Alex once before this season so the hell?

I stand by my "Someone found out that Wren was A so Marlene panicked and made some shit up" theory. 

[WhosThatGirl]

13 minutes ago, Spencer Hastings said:

I stand by my "Someone found out that Wren was A so Marlene panicked and made some shit up" theory. 

And I think you're correct.

[Froippi]

so we our suppose to believe Alex use Aria fear of losing Ezra to Nicole against her with that dam file oh gosh yea that makes total fucking since it still doesn't explain why she hated Alison, Emily, and Aria so much i get the other two

[GaT]

2 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

Oh and the latest doctor's office calls you back at night rather than during office hours or by making you come in for an appointment so they can discuss further options.

Obviously the doctor knew that the wedding was the next day, so instead of going to the church & yelling "I object" when the "If anyone here has any objections to this couple getting married, let them speak now or forever hold your peace." part comes, the doctor just decided to call her the night before & save himself a trip.

[ottoDbusdriver]

18 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Now I'm going to eh wonder if certain scenes in other episodes/scenes were meant to be Alex.

Was that Alex or Spencer in the bunker in the woods ? Charlotte was A at that point, but had Alex already started working with her ?

[M1977G]

To quote an old hip hop song, that finale and really the whole series was "like, Woah." As in, what the hell has been going on here? ITA about the lameness of Spencer twinsies. Total letdown and disregard of fan intelligence and all the promises IMK made to fans over the years. Weak sauce all around with new and marginal characters suddenly becoming so central. 

So, despite all the exposition in the finale, and frankly, at most other key turning points in the show, I have some major confusion. First, what professional writers don't know the principle of "show, don't tell" in writing? If you have to explain everything to the viewer or reader, you didn't do a good job with the writing. Second, can someone explain how the overall A-UberA-AD arc really worked? It seems even Alex hadn't plotted everything from the beginning, so I just don't get the logistics. TBH, I never fully understood how Mona lost the game all those seasons back. So, ultimately, did the bullying make Mona crazy and Ali gets to live happily ever after? I always have been dissatisfied with Ali's return and mostly just being forgiven for all her cruelties, lies, manipulations, and general bullshit. Part of me had wanted Ali to be tied up with AD, or have Paige/Mona/Lucas be involved because all this started with Ali being a bully psycho mean girl. What did Ian's death and those top secret NAT Club secrets have to do with all this in the end? How was Sydney so involved? What was with all those dolls? Why the hoodie uniform obsession? Imma stop with my questions because there are no real answers.  

[marinaalexis]

7 minutes ago, M1977G said:

I always have been dissatisfied with Ali's return and mostly just being forgiven for all her cruelties, lies, manipulations, and general bullshit.

100% this! I'm so glad someone else feels the same way as me. It was so disgusting to see her waltzing around town with the Liars, crying happy tears over their friendship when she was the one who almost ruined it a million times. I'm so sad that we didn't get a scene with just the four core Liars in this episode, Ali doesn't deserve to be there with them.

Edited June 28, 2017 by marinaalexis

[Froippi]

17 minutes ago, marinaalexis said:

100% this! I'm so glad someone else feels the same way as me. It was so disgusting to see her waltzing around town with the Liars, crying happy tears over their friendship when she was the one who almost ruined it a million times. I'm so sad that we didn't get a scene with just the four core Liars in this episode, Ali doesn't deserve to be there with them.

its funny cause of one the original scrips I heard was her killing of Alison but she took it back after 1 day

[mac123x]

22 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Was that Alex or Spencer in the bunker in the woods ? Charlotte was A at that point, but had Alex already started working with her ?

If I remember correctly, Alex exposited that she stayed in London after Charlotte returned to play the game some more, and didn't get to Rosewood until after she died, meaning that only the sketchy scenes they flashed back to in the finale were Alex-playing-Spencer.  Chronologically, I think her first appearance on-screen was with Hanna being tortured in the barn in 7.01.

 

That raises another time-line hole I think -- The PLLs started getting texts from Emoj-A pretty much immediately after Charlotte died.  Did Alex teleport to Rosewood upon hearing of her demise?  More importantly, why am I bothering?  I will listen to a couple of podcasts later this week about it, but after the holiday I doubt I'll remember this show at all.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Spencer Hastings said:

I stand by my "Someone found out that Wren was A so Marlene panicked and made some shit up" theory. 

Ironic that everyone guessed about the Spencer twin months ago but Marlene was okay with keeping that steaming pile of shit storyline!

I can't adequately describe the noise I made when Ali proposed and said that Emily always saw her as a beautiful soul. If you're going to insist on Emily marrying her bully, maybe don't go out of your way to remind us of Emily's Stolkholm syndrome and her insistence on turning a blind eye to Alison's bullying, blackmail, and emotional manipulation. Same goes for Aria marrying her creepy Humbert Humbert wannabe-writer stalker.

[mac123x]

I really wish they'd cut to commercial with the person in the black hoodie pulling off masks progressively. 

Melissa mask comes off revealing Mona

Mona --> Paige

Paige --> Sydney

Sydney --> Wren

Wren --> Peter Hastings

Peter Hastings --> Sober coach Dean

Sober coach Dean pulls off the final mask revealing no head, and it turns out that AD was Noel Khan's reanimated corpse.

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God, my one regret in life is that I didn't realize there was a live thread. I don't even regret watching this whole batshit insane dumbass of a show, because it meant I got to pause Hulu for a good five minutes to laugh my ass off at Evil Twin number 2! I mean, an evil twin with a British accent! A British accent that makes Dick Van Dike sound like Dame Judy Dench! Oh Trojan, I love you, but that accent was pretty awful. Honestly, I know I should hate this episode, because of how stupid and contrived it all was, and how this show has squandered all the promise of its early seasons, but I kind of love it. It was so stupid and insane, that it actually transcended awful, and became amazing. I am watching Valhalla fall to the sounds of glorious combat and destruction, and Marlene is my Brunhilda. There is no worse PLL than a boring PLL, and, if nothing else, I wasn't bored. Alright, Ezra/Aria were boring, but what else is new.

Edited June 28, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Chinspinner]

1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh my God, my one regret in life is that I didn't realize there was a live thread. I don't even regret watching this whole batshit insane dumbass of a show, because it meant I got to pause Hulu for a good five minutes to laugh my ass off at Evil Twin number 2! I mean, an evil twin with a British accent! A British accent that makes Dick Van Dike sound like Dame Judy Dench! Oh Trojan, I love you, but that accent was pretty awful. Honestly, I know I should hate this episode, because of how stupid and contrived it all was, and how this show has squandered all the promise of its early seasons, but I kind of love it. It was so stupid and insane, that it actually transcended awful, and became amazing. I am watching Valhalla fall to the sounds of glorious combat and destruction, and Marlene is my Brunhilda. There is no worse PLL than a boring PLL, and, if nothing else, I wasn't bored. Alright, Ezra/Aria were boring, but what else is new.

You weren't bored? The first half was tedious shipping and the second half was tedious exposition; endless exposition that explained nothing of any import.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Chinspinner

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean it was really bad. And I don't know apparently Troian said Marlene told her about this two years prior about the end? Really? I don't know how I feel about that given if that's true, why wasn't the execution better? It was so bad. I can't find anything else to say but that.

And there's nothing creative about pulling the twin thing in the finale of a show just because you can when it makes no sense.

And Ali is terrible. The series should have never brought her back or at least ended with her being the big evil A. The fact that we are just supposed to ignore her awfull behavior because she was only 15 is ridiculous to me. She knew what she was doing to her "friends"at that age. It bothers me so much the Emison relationship because then you have Emily telling teenage girls to not fall into a awful persons trap when she did and still does so to the point of marrying Alison. Like I felt like through this entire season that the Emison romance was tacked on just because Marlene was like "well shippers want this". I still don't even believe Ali is in love with Emily the way Emily loves her, I mean sure they said it to each other last night but even in her speech to Paige about how she feels about Emily, Ali was saying things like "I like the way she looks at me" or something.

This was just terrible. Also I believe Marlene thinks she's going to get some sort of Emily Alison spin off or something, otherwise I really don't know what the first hour was about.

[tennisgurl]

@Chinspinner I actually had more, but it got deleted. The first half was boring, hence the Ezra/Aria comment, but I wasn't bored at all by the second half. It was utter nonsense, but I enjoy when this show just surrenders to its ridiculousness.

Anyway, Aria/Ezra are just the worst couple ever. I mean, even beyond the ickiness of how they met (including Byron giving his approval to this dickhead), they just don't work as a couple. Like, even the day before their wedding, Aria is lying to him about not being able to have kids, which is a pretty huge thing to lie about, and when he calls her out on it, she gets all defensive and first says its not his business, and than says she thought he would walk out on her, and neither of those look good for their future relationship. For one thing, yeah, its totally his business that his wife cant have kids, even if its more Arias business. They're supposed to be a team, and you don't hide such a big thing from your teammate. And second, its not a good sign when you go into a marriage thinking your husband might ditch you for something not even your fault. Good Lord, I actually was siding with Ezra for a minute there! ERZA!

Also, I freaking hate how everyone treats Mona like total shit, when everyone else, especially Ali, get let off scot free for their awful things, but Mona gets treated like a leper, no matter how much she tries to help. At least Mona gets a happy ending, making dolls with a hot French guy and the requisite French beret. And, because its Mona, she's also imprisoning Alex and Mary in a creepy dollhouse. How the hell that works, I don't know, but its very Mona. Mona is just the best kind of crazy. The only spin off I could possibly get behind in Mona focused.

You know who I really feel for? Poor Toby. How many times has the poor guy been raped now? Get that poor man a therapist stat. One outside of the tri state area!

Everything with Evil Twin was my favorite, just because it was so stupid, I loved it. Trojan was just hamming it up for all its worth, even playing another stupid "crazy" villain, who has motivations that don't really make any sense, and can do pretty much anything and are everywhere for no reason. Also, she killed Wren and carries his ashes around in a necklace. Like you do.

[Jack Shaftoe]

This was quite possibly the worst TV episode I have watched in its entirety. I would like to believe that the writers were trolling on purpose because come on, you can take a bunch of random 12 year olds and come up with a more coherent plot and far more naturally sounding dialogue. Troian's accent was appalling and as someone who has a twin I am almost personally insulted by all the evil twins and inability of every character to recognize which twin they are talking with. And once again the villain's motivation and background make no sense even by the extremely low standards of this show - "you were all so close that I became jealous". Say what? This happened right after the Liars had spent five years apart from each other. Once again the Liars do nothing to actually expose the villain apart from Spencer's hilarious lock-picking efforts and the villain is mind-blowingly inept whenever she in on screen. I never liked Wren but I don't think he is malicious or stupid enough to go along with the plans of an obvious lunatic. Why did Alex took a break from harassing the Liars for a year? Why the hell didn't Spencer attack Mary when she unlocked the cell? Why on earth would Alex use Mona as a minion, isn't she supposed to have cared for Charlotte? Why were Veronica and Ashley present at Aria's wedding? Fake!Spencer even said Veronica even provided security for some reason!? Why did I watch this trainwreck to its bitter end?!?

Everyone is desperate for babies - is this a fifties show or something? So many "callbacks" to earlier seasons that came off as forced - like the scrabble scenes - even the same music as in 1.19, Liars The New Generation, etc.  Well, at least I got plenty of unintentional comedy moments from this finale, that's something.

Quote

Hanna says: “Out of all the insane theories we’ve jumped to, Spencer having an evil twin…” This is supposed to be a tipped wink, a wry nod to the audience, a self-referential joke, but no; referencing your own ineptitude does not excuse bad writing.

Yes, that is something that so many writers doesn't seem to get. Are we supposed to feel better that the writers are aware how dumb the plots they write are? This is not a parody show, at least not an intentional one, I don't think.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Jack Shaftoe

[AftermathTV]

1 hour ago, Froippi said:

its funny cause of one the original scrips I heard was her killing of Alison but she took it back after 1 day

That's the only full circle moment I wanted

[Perfect Xero]

"Toby, this is Jenna. Turns out that I'm a good guy this week, I know, but between me doing this and helping Ali and Emily torment a teenage mean girl at school, where I apparently work with them now, my legacy is assured. Big news: Spencer isn't Spencer! What do you mean that this doesn't make up for me raping you all those times when we were teenagers?"

 

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Veronica Hastings + Peter Hastings = Melissa

Jessica DiLaurentis + Peter Hastings = Jason

Jessica DiLaurentis + Kenneth DiLaurentis = Alison

Mary Drake + Peter Hastings = Spencer & Alex

Mary Drake + Pastor Ted = Charlotte

 

Melissa, Spencer/Alex, Jason = paternal half siblings

Alison & Jason = maternal half siblings

Charlotte, Spencer/Alex = maternal half siblings

Charlotte, Alison, Jason, Spencer/Alex = maternal cousins

Keep in mind that because Mary and Jessica are identical twins the maternal cousins are also half siblings on a genetic level with Jason and Spencer/Alex being genetic full siblings.

[lorikauai]

So basically all 4 girls end up with their abusers? How romantic.

 

The evil twin plot was so incredibly stupid. I have seen this done a million times better on daytime soap operas, probably because soap writers actually write long arcs that make sense. They don't just toss out a bunch of clues and red herrings and then try to figure out how to tie it together later. 

 

Like others, I thought the finale made it even more clear that Wren was supposed to be A instead of Cece/Charlotte/Charles. This show had so much wasted potential. The first 2 seasons were pretty solid, but when they stopped using the books as a general guide the writers got lost. I was angry about the show revealing Toby and Ezra as A and then taking it back. Toby had legitimate reasons to want revenge and Ezra was a creepy stalker/statutory rapist. However, the show really jumped the shark when it brought back Ali from the dead and took away everything that made her entertaining. I can't think of anything interesting that happened because of Ali's return. It made the show so much worse. 

[cdp73]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain the first scene.  Why was Lucas tap dancing and why was Jenna on a horse?

[lorikauai]

3 minutes ago, cdp73 said:

I'm still waiting for someone to explain the first scene.  Why was Lucas tap dancing and why was Jenna on a horse?

Mona was imagining that while looking in her snow globe. Honestly they should have had the whole show be Mona's imagination considering how ridiculous the plot became. I know it's hackneyed, but so is every other plot line on this show. 

[mac123x]

Just now, lorikauai said:

Mona was imagining that while looking in her snow globe. Honestly they should have had the whole show be Mona's imagination considering how ridiculous the plot became. I know it's hackneyed, but so is every other plot line on this show. 

The writers were being meta and oh-so-clever, basically an homage / fuck you to the fans that speculated they'd use the "all a dream" copout.  Instead they went with the secret twin copout.

[Artsda]

8 hours ago, GaT said:

I can say I am mad about Aria's infertility plot. Plain stupid. Because yes, 3 doctors can say with 100% accuracy you can't have children. That can happen only if you don't have ovaries or uterus.

I didn't even think this was real, I figured it was AD manipulating the results. I bet they'd end up with a miracle baby.

What I didn't understand was that why AD had a soft spot for Aria so much? 

[Perfect Xero]

Oh man, I just remembered Byron said that he couldn't give Ezra his blessing because Ezra never tried to assure them that he was good for Aria or do anything to win their approval, which meant that they had already given him their blessing because he cared more about Aria than them. It reminded me of this scene:

Edited June 29, 2017 by Perfect Xero

[RachelKM]

I enjoyed the hell out of this epic cluster-fuck of a finale.  I have never laughed so hard so often while watching this show.  It was part fan fic realization, part self satire, part self-serious bullshit extravaganza.... I have no idea if any of it was intentional by the writers, except maybe the reference to the moms getting out of the basement; but it was delightful.

Speaking of the moms, the only spin-off of this shit-circus I would ever want would be Real Wine Moms of Rosewood.  

Also, HAHAHAHA.... Aria got married in half a dress (which by virtue of mass was 50% less ugly than the first dress) in Our Lady of Perpetual Murder.   What was the rehearsal like?  Ok walk with your groomsmen partner to the row of pews where Ian tried to kill Spencer and release one another's arms and go to your side of the alter..... And now for the recessional, please exit the doors, go no further than where Charlotte landed and turn to throw the pedals.  

Edited June 29, 2017 by RachelKM
I cannot type... or spell.

[dwmckim]

10 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Welp just in case anyone doubted it, there's an article now on ew with an interview with Marlene and the first question she makes an explanation that originally she wanted Wren to be AD and then tries to explain why she retcon the whole thing that ad had to be a series regular or something that makes no sense because Alex wasn't a series regular.  Yes she's Spencer's twin but.. we haven't seen Alex once before this season so the hell?

Here's the exact quote:

Quote

Originally my mind was going to Wren as A.D., but we had to be realistic and there have been times when we really needed a character who wasn’t a series regular and we couldn’t get them on the show. The show is so deeply rooted in mythology and I’ve always said you have to know the ending before you know the beginning or else it won’t make sense, so that dictated that we needed to make A.D. someone who was a series regular.

What i gather that she's saying is she originally wanted it to be Wren but was too afraid that when it came time to finally shoot the series' end, the possibility that they wouldn't have been able to get Julian Morris available for them was too real and they would have been completely screwed.  (Even though they did get Wren in the finale, they still didn't have him available long enough to tape all the things they wanted for him including an on-screen death scene).   What she means by "has to be a series regular" is an actor that is a contract player on the show as opposed to one that appears as a guest/recurring status because those actors you know you'll have with no other commitments in the way; they signed a contract guaranteeing their availability to tape episodes of the show.

[Chinspinner]

2 hours ago, dwmckim said:

Originally my mind was going to Wren as A.D., but we had to be realistic and there have been times when we really needed a character who wasn’t a series regular and we couldn’t get them on the show. The show is so deeply rooted in mythology and I’ve always said you have to know the ending before you know the beginning or else it won’t make sense, so that dictated that we needed to make A.D. someone who was a series regular.

This only pisses me off even more. If they needed a series regular, why did they not use a series regular (character as well as actor); someone who was actually in a position to carry out half of the shit attributed to AD (of course no one but an omniscient demi-God could do everything AD was supposed to have done).

If Marlene had come to me (or anyone with an iota of talent) with this criteria; we need a series regular, someone contractually obliged to appear in the finale, they would have laughed and responded, "contractual obligations have nothing to do with it; a mystery requires a series regular, someone the audience is familiar with, to have a satisfying conclusion. Having anyone else will just piss people off. Now, we can tie together most of the unfinished plots by making it one or more of the following: Spencer, Ezra, Emily, Ali, Paige, Mona, Caleb, Toby, (and if available) Melissa, Jason, Lucas, Jenna, any of the parents... just tell us which of those you would like to be AD, and we'll write it for you. We'll even throw a death in there to raise the stakes and give some emotional punch, and a misdirect so that the final reveal is even more shocking."

Marlene's response, while dribbling down her chin: "Spencer's twin." She truly is incompetent.  

Edited June 29, 2017 by Chinspinner

[AftermathTV]

I do have to wonder if part of the "thinking" behind the Alex origin was tied to Marlene hearing about Tatiana Maslany.

"Hey that's cool, let's make Troian do it! The awards will come flowing in". 

[Chinspinner]

21 minutes ago, AftermathTV said:

I do have to wonder if part of the "thinking" behind the Alex origin was tied to Marlene hearing about Tatiana Maslany.

"Hey that's cool, let's make Troian do it! The awards will come flowing in". 

Haha, I wonder what she thought when she heard "Gawd Blimey Gov'ner, I gone done it, ain't I" coming out of Troian's mouth.

[Jack Shaftoe]

It's kind of feels like Marlene and company got pissed that most fans hated the Charlotte reveal and decided to try to come up with something similar, yet even dumber.  Oh, you hated the secret sibling? Now we give you the evil twin whose mother is also an evil twin! You didn't like that everything happened so fast in 6.10 and it was mostly telling instead of showing? Well, we will now have a 90 minutes finale but we will devote half of it to the most boring romance plots possible. You disliked the fact that the Liars couldn't catch Charlotte and she had to basically reveal herself on her own? Well, we will do it again and once again we will have Mona as the only one with half a clue but this time we will not bother with any explanation as to why the murderous villain didn't kill her or why the villain took a one year sabbatical. You didn't like the fact that the villain's motivation was "Well, she is crazy, so her actions don't have to make sense", so we did that same thing again.  You didn't like the fact that Charlotte's wrath was aimed at innocent people instead of those who had actually wronged her - we will do it again and add a nonsensical story of the new villain suddenly being obsessed with Toby of all people. You were pissed that the trans character was the villain and we assured you we would try to redeem her? Well, scratch that. she was an evil maniac all along and the protagonists were utter fools to trust her. Sort of like you, viewers, to trust anything we say. MWAHAHAHA! Please watch the Addison spin-off.

On a different note, why on earth did Archer marry Alison? If it was for the money, Charlotte could have, you know, not left it to Alison in the first place. Why did Chatlotte need to fake her recovery instead of just escaping, with the help of Archer if necessary?

Quote

The show is so deeply rooted in mythology and I’ve always said you have to know the ending before you know the beginning or else it won’t make sense,

I love how Marlene boldly implies that the ending makes sense and that it was actually planned in advance. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Jack Shaftoe

[Snow Fairy]

People in Radley knew papa Hastings is the father of Mary's child? They gave him the baby. So why didn't they call, hey, there is another one, a twin, want that one too?

I should really stop thinking about the plot holes

[JenJenBosco]

2 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

People in Radley knew papa Hastings is the father of Mary's child? They gave him the baby. So why didn't they call, hey, there is another one, a twin, want that one too?

I should really stop thinking about the plot holes

I think that's my thing too.  I need to stop thinking about the holes in the story.

[mac123x]

4 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

You disliked the fact that the Liars couldn't catch Charlotte and she had to basically reveal herself on her own? Well, we will do it again and once again we will have Mona as the only one with half a clue

Mona and a blind girl and a horse!  It'll be hysterical!

4 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Why did Chatlotte need to fake her recovery instead of just escaping, with the help of Archer if necessary?

Because security was really good at Wilby, which explains why Wrollins was later able to abduct Ali and take her to the lake to murder her, and how Ali and Aria were able to sneak back in undetected after Wrollins died.  Wait...

2 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

People in Radley knew papa Hastings is the father of Mary's child? They gave him the baby.

I don't think that was Peter.  It was an extra from the set of Mad Men.

[Peanut6711]

3 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

People in Radley knew papa Hastings is the father of Mary's child? They gave him the baby. So why didn't they call, hey, there is another one, a twin, want that one too?

I should really stop thinking about the plot holes

This!  And why do they even deliver babies at Radley to begin with?  I don't buy that she couldn't have been safely and securely transferred to a hospital to give birth. But what bugs me even more about these Spencer/Alex birth sequences is the ridiculous nods to a 1920's era instead of what 1990!  It's another way MK is attempting to delude the viewer into missing the many plot holes, like the ultrasound which would have shown twins months before. Did Mary also not receive any prenatal care? 

[Bort]

26 minutes ago, Peanut6711 said:

This!  And why do they even deliver babies at Radley to begin with?  I don't buy that she couldn't have been safely and securely transferred to a hospital to give birth. But what bugs me even more about these Spencer/Alex birth sequences is the ridiculous nods to a 1920's era instead of what 1990!  It's another way MK is attempting to delude the viewer into missing the many plot holes, like the ultrasound which would have shown twins months before. Did Mary also not receive any prenatal care? 

Mary DID know months in advance, didn't tell Peter, sold Alex, gave part of it to the obgyn/Radley staff as a bribe/hush money.  ::desperately fanwanking::

[Sakura12]

The last time I watched this show, Caleb was the best boyfriend, now I guess he's the worst. The liars didnt trust Allison and now Emily is dating her. 

I'm glad I gave up the show then. Instead of wasting my time on a show that never made any sense and just wanted to shock instead of making a compelling mystery.

I think I would've been happier if they went with them all being in a mental institution called Rosewood.

 

Jason needs to ask every girl he meets to take a DNA test to make sure they are not his sister.

[tennisgurl]

4 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

I should really stop thinking about the plot holes

I'm still trying to figure out why Radley was apparently in some kind of time loop in the early to mid 90s where it was perpetually 1954 inside.

[mishap]

I have only watched this show on Netflix/ hulu.    I started when I wanted a show with a lot of seasons, that I could get into and binge watch when I felt like it.   It was awful, campy fun, for the most part.    Not meant to be taken seriously. 

But even with my attitude, I feel like this was a stupid finale. 

They could have gone the 'Newhart' route, and it was all a dream.  Hmm -- I wonder if any of you are familiar with that reference.  haha. 

Aria's first wedding dress was terrible.  Unflattering and pretty darned ugly.  The second one was not beautiful, in my opinion, but it seemed a lot more suited to Aria than the first one. 

I'm going to google what 'shipping' is.  I am guessing slang for relationship?  Sailing off into the sunset? 

Yes, I am too old to be watching this show! 

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, mishap said:

They could have gone the 'Newhart' route, and it was all a dream.  Hmm -- I wonder if any of you are familiar with that reference.  haha. 

Or they could have gone the St. Elsewhere route -- there was a snowglobe in play -- and Rosewood and PLLs were all in Mona's mind.

[Froippi]

idk i still feel like Ezra was right on calling Aria out about not being able to have babies it seems Aria kept coming up with excuses why she didn't tell him earlier and they were further from the truth it seem this was just thrown in as a plot device for Ezra to get kidnapped by AD cause he was asking to many questions

[Mrs. DuRona]

"I may not be able to see, but I can smell bitches from a mile away" needs to be on a tshirt.  Also, it reminded me why I fell in love with this show in the first place.

It was a good finale, but so rushed.  They really should have taken the whole back end of the season to build this.  I didn't mind the twin "twist", I figured it was either that or Wren because he was supposed to be Uber A back in the day.  

I am going to miss this batshit crazy show, but not enough to watch PLL: The next generation.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, mishap said:

Aria's first wedding dress was terrible.  Unflattering and pretty darned ugly.  The second one was not beautiful, in my opinion, but it seemed a lot more suited to Aria than the first one. 

The second dress looked like a white version of the mustard yellow dress she wore to the dinner they had at the Lost Woods earlier in the episode. It was fine as a regular dress but it didn't seem like something to get married in. It was definitely better than that hideous sack she wore for the original wedding though. That thing looked like the sad dress you would find hanging at the back of the anthropologie clearance rack that no one wanted to buy. I can hear Tim Gunn saying, "It just looks sad."

[rogvortex58]

I liked the AD reveal with the pretend mirror. Even though classic removing of the hood would have been my preference.

Still, not a bad twist. Wish I hadn't already figured it out though. They made the clues and the motive kind of obvious.

Edited June 30, 2017 by rogvortex58

[dwmckim]

Now that i've had time to process and gather my thoughts, here's why i consider the finale (heck, the whole last season) a Massive Fail.

Throughout the show's history, there's been countless open mysteries, unanswered questions, unexplained occurrences, and sketchy red-herring characters.

Viewers of the show get invested in these.  We expect them to have a payoff.  

The finale ignored just about all of them.  

PLL wasn't ultimately about never firing the Chekhov's Gun, it made a whole firearms factory and kept them all under lock and key.

This was my biggest fear about the timejump from 6A to 6B - there were all these open mysteries, and by jumping forward five years, they were all mostly doomed to become irrelevant.  And that's EXACTLY what happened.  The show's writing staff just didn't care at all about revisiting any open threads.  But these were the elements that people who cared about the show kept tuning in for - they wanted those answers, those wrap-ups.

Just as important as answering the questions you introduce in the story, you need to have satisfying resolution to the characters.  All those sketchy characters may have been red herrings in the end, but the viewers were still invested in and care about the characters.  Just because they're herrings doesn't mean they're disposable; they need to have their own epilogues as to WHY they were the way they were - what were their motivations for such actions?  How much did so-and-so know about this-and-that?  Show dIdn't care about any of this so any viewers who did care about this stuff had all that time just wasted.

Then they couldn't even use what they did give us to its full potential.  How much more satisfying would it have been if during alex's backstory exposition, she could have talked about "Even though that was the last time I physically last saw Charlotte. we kept very closely in touch and she let me have a taste of what playing the game was like.  When one of her dolls was taking off to spend some time in another country beyond her reach, she called in a favor to her London Correspondent to keep things in play - I was the one who put that blood in your bag.  What an intoxicating thrill that was and I totally understood what Charlotte meant about how you didn't want to stop playing once you got a taste of it!"  That would have taken care of one loose thread and expanded the backstory/motivations of this "new" character.  

This had the potential to be such an incredible show - true to the show's title, the concept of the Unreliable Narrator could have been a major central theme.  When we got "answers", we had a hard time trusting how much of them were actually true?  When Ali and later Charlotte had their huge exposition episodes, we knew there must be things they were both lying about and leaving out - and we waited patiently to find out just what secrets they were still keeping and was was the "real" story behind their stories?  Those never came.  What exactly was Ali's relationship with Cyrus; why was Sara helping and so seemingly devoted to Charlotte; just how much did Jenna and Melissa know about the various A teams and what were their specific roles regarding each?  None of those will ever be touched upon now.  

So much wasted opportunities.  All those wasted years.  IMK does not know how to run a show and i will never make the mistake of watching anything she's attached to ever again.  

Edited June 30, 2017 by dwmckim

[CraftyHazel]

This all shoulda-coulda-woulda been better written and planned by anyone willing to put in a little effort.

Spencer/Alex could have been switched at the dollhouse by Charlotte, setting all of this in motion long before this season.  (This is when IMK claims they decided to give Spencer a twin.)  When Ali begged her friends to come back and help get Charlotte released, "Spencer" (actually Alex) could have been the first to agree to help, making the others wonder why, and yet think nothing much of it.  Two seasons of Spencer being a bit off, possibly to the point of Veronica wondering if she might not need to be recommitted could have followed before things began to fall into place, with a scene of RealSpencer locked up somewhere...hospital, another dollhouse, etc.  Spencer and Alex could have been adopted by different people without having to go to the Jessica/Mary/Peter Hastings story, which was stupid.  There could have been a lot less exposition.  Things could have been better explained than "Alex wants Spencer's friends and boyfriend".  Spencer's time in Radley could have genuinely cracked her and she set up the whole switch with Alex, having learned about her from Wren or Cece.  They could have had ONE of the girls not end up with their high school romances.  (I vote for Aria.)  They could have gone back to the fact that Ezra is, in fact, a creep and let him be A.D.

Anything but what they did.  Sloppy.

[rogvortex58]

I won't lie. I felt it was very anti-climactic. Instead of a series finale, we just got another season finale.

Initially I had this hope that AD would try to fulfill Charlotte's endgame for the liars and Rosewood to honour her. Like maybe there was this big plan in mind after she got out and left Alex not just her money, but her legacy.

But AD had her own agenda. And we never got to find out what Charlotte's endgame was. I always assumed it would involve another attempt to destroy Radley, like she already tried.

Alas though, all Alex really wanted was the life she felt she was owed. Understandable when you look at the character. But kind of underwhelming. For her the game was just a means to an end. Whereas Mona and Charlotte lived for it. Which kind of makes her the lesser A between the three of them.

Also, if they wanted to callback to the Halloween special with the twins way back in season 2, why not just have AD's name be Alice?

[AftermathTV]

1 hour ago, rogvortex58 said:

I won't lie. I felt it was very anti-climactic. Instead of a series finale, we just got another season finale.

Initially I had this hope that AD would try to fulfill Charlotte's endgame for the liars and Rosewood to honour her. Like maybe there was this big plan in mind after she got out and left Alex not just her money, but her legacy.

But AD had her own agenda. And we never got to find out what Charlotte's endgame was. I always assumed it would involve another attempt to destroy Radley, like she already tried.

Alas though, all Alex really wanted was the life she felt she was owed. Understandable when you look at the character. But kind of underwhelming. For her the game was just a means to an end. Whereas Mona and Charlotte lived for it. Which kind of makes her the lesser A between the three of them.

Also, if they wanted to callback to the Halloween special with the twins way back in season 2, why not just have AD's name be Alice?

Hello scififan2009!

[dreamcatcher]

On 6/29/2017 at 8:26 AM, dwmckim said:

Here's the exact quote:

What i gather that she's saying is she originally wanted it to be Wren but was too afraid that when it came time to finally shoot the series' end, the possibility that they wouldn't have been able to get Julian Morris available for them was too real and they would have been completely screwed.  (Even though they did get Wren in the finale, they still didn't have him available long enough to tape all the things they wanted for him including an on-screen death scene).   What she means by "has to be a series regular" is an actor that is a contract player on the show as opposed to one that appears as a guest/recurring status because those actors you know you'll have with no other commitments in the way; they signed a contract guaranteeing their availability to tape episodes of the show.

If I remember correctly, it was pretty much confirmed that Julian came back for season 6 and was supposed to be Charles but couldn't commit the time that required so he was completely forgotten. So even though that happened to her once again, she couldn't take the time to book the actor well in advance to make sure she could tell the story she AND the viewers wanted and something that could make sense? Wren was there from the beginning, he had ties to everyone and they could use Alex's story. Like he pretty much stalked Melissa as a way to get into the gang because he wanted the life he missed out on. Or whatever, just about anything else than what we got. The fact that she went with what was convenient with both Charlotte and Alex is infuriating.

i'm not going to discuss all the plotholes, but I got confused with Mona's involvement. At the beginning we know she show Wren, but when she got out she knew that Wren wasn't AD. She was working with Alex to figure out who she was, but then who did she call in the "plan b, tell me who you are" scene? I don't think Alex would be like "yeah I didn't want to tell you before, but I'm Spencer's twin and I'm currently chasing her and Ezra around with an axe in x address. Hope I see you soon guuuurl!" 

[rogvortex58]

1 hour ago, AftermathTV said:

Hello scififan2009!

Busted. :)

[CloudySky]

I stopped paying close attention to the show and creating theories after the Charles reveal and barely remember the plot episode to episode. I tried giving it another real chance with the time jump but when they pulled out the mission impossible masks I went NOPE and only watched for the interactions between the characters.

So this finale was exactly what I expected. Not exciting nor disappointing. It was no longer possible for me to be disappointed because expectations were that low and there were no real stakes because the foundation was so weak.

It's too bad that they even managed to make the friendship between the girls become hollow. That was the only strength the show had left.

Everything became way too convuluted and disingenuous (the realness of the characters and their actions is what kept the show grounded the first couple of seasons) so I was relieved to see 2 small rays of realness.

The first was the disfuntion that is Haleb. Despite the "happy ending" I was left with the feeling that they need a lot of work and therapy for their relationship to last, but at least it seemed real. The second was Emison. I'm glad Emily was still paranoid and called Alison out when Alison was only trying to propose. It also left me with the feeling like haleb that despite the deep love there, there are some issues that need to be worked on and the characters and audience are aware. Unlike the fakeness that is Ezria and Spoby who were fucked up from the start and will forever be fucked up no matter how many parents give their blessing.