S03.E08: Slip

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, knaankos said:

Haven't seen anyone mention this, but  I loved seeing the "Cheap Seats" twins again on TV. (The guitar store guys). They had a show on ESPN Classic called Cheap Seats in the mid 2000s where they would watch old ESPN telecasts when they showed strange things, like world women's surfing championships or roller derby and basically just make fun. Very underrated show 

Oh Dang! I knew those guys looked familiar. Thank you so much for pointing that out. I would have otherwise missed it. Nice catch!

Also, I should point out that Jimmy's sidekick in Chicago (the large sized man) is played by the same actor (I think) who plays one of the men on the show, "The Last Man on Earth".  If I'm correct about that, his name is Mel Rodriguez. I have always thought that was just an incredibly awful show. But I wanted to point it out in case anyone recognized him but couldn't quite place him.

Edited June 6, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Bryce Lynch]

Mike finding the Good Samaritan to give his family closure made me think of Lydia.

 Part of the reason he spared her and went into business with her, Jesse and Walt was the fact that she demanded that he promise that her body would be found and said she would rather scream and have her daughter killed with her than have her daughter go through life thinking her Mommy abandoned her.  I wonder if the Good Samaritan and Anita's husband crossed Mike's mind at the time.

I got a kick out of Chuck and his detailed pain scale notes.  I always thought the pain scale was a bit silly. How can you tell the difference between a 3 and a 4 and wouldn't different patients give totally different numbers to the same level of pain?  But Chuck had it down to the quarter point. He said something like, "No higher than 5.25." :)

I also liked the subtle little moment when the second drug dealer who came to pay Nacho started to say goodbye to Hector, like Krazy -8 always does, but stopped himself, realizing Hector was just going to ignore him like he always does.

I wonder what type of medication the doctor has Chuck on? Antidepressants? Anti-anxiety?  Tranquilizers? Antipsychotics? Pain killers? Placebos?  I would guess either some sort of anti anxiety meds or placebos.

[rehoboth]

8 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think Jimmy was bluffing and in real life the community service guy would laugh at him and dock his hours.  I'm sure he would have dealt with all sorts of threats and scams from the hoodlums he supervises.  The writing of that scene seemed ham handed and unrealistic by BCS standard, like something I would expect on a far inferior show.

Jimmy was definitely bluffing but when you've got nothing to lose you will try anything to turn things around.  I think the reason the guy went along with Jimmy is that he (and Jimmy) are well aware that he is not doing things entirely by the book.  Not illegal but perhaps not entirely ethical.  He doesn't need anyone taking a closer look at his little fiefdom.

[rue721]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I thought that that was why she initially agreed to look at the oil case. Even if she referred it to a colleague, there might be some compensation for her. Now that she will be keeping  the case, I don't see how she will do justice to both it and Mesa Verde. Paige knows this could  be an issue. Kim already can't keep track of which day she last saw Jimmy.

She could hire a couple associates to work in Jimmy's half of the office. Sublet the space from him.

LOL he would freak out at the suggestion. But she's got too much money and too much work, and there is an unused second office sitting right there...

[MisterBluxom]

23 minutes ago, rehoboth said:

Jimmy was definitely bluffing but when you've got nothing to lose you will try anything to turn things around.  I think the reason the guy went along with Jimmy is that he (and Jimmy) are well aware that he is not doing things entirely by the book.  Not illegal but perhaps not entirely ethical.  He doesn't need anyone taking a closer look at his little fiefdom.

It is also an interesting lesson that someone like Jimmy who has a huge wealth of knowledge about the law and law suits can easily bluff and induce fear into someone who doesn't. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the population can be bluffed in this way. Many people who are in the same kind of position as Jimmy thought this guy was become afraid and lie down for this kind of a bluff. I sure do wish I knew or someone could provide a good estimate as to just what percentage of the population would succumb to this kind of bluff.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

Sadly, I also fear the Mike and Gus' formalized partnership is going to lead to Nacho's demise, and Mike's role in that demise is going help push Mike into being a full time participant in the violent drug trade. Morally and ethically speaking, Jimmy and Mike are dissolving before our eyes. You might say they are breaking bad.

Either something with Gus, or Nacho's own misjudgment will do him in, I think.  Maybe the pill switch will never be detected, but only a few people know exactly where the good samaritan's body is buried.  Giving that info to Mike was unwise.  For Mike, he might feel better that a family will know what happened, but as Gus said, you are trying to correct something that cannot be corrected.  He may have made it worse by involving Nacho.

Was Jimmy trying to play "Smoke on the Water" on his guitar?

[luna1122]

I was so nervous during the pill swap scene. I also loved watching Nacho practice palming the pills off.

I have empathy for Chuck as I would for anyone with a mental illness, but it doesn't mean Chuck's not still an asshole. I also said aloud, while he dreamed of having all his friends in the house 'Chuck, you don't have any friends'.

It's really kind of tragic to watch Jimmy become full fledged Saul. LIke, epic-Shakespearean kind of tragedy.

[Bannon]

21 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Either something with Gus, or Nacho's own misjudgment will do him in, I think.  Maybe the pill switch will never be detected, but only a few people know exactly where the good samaritan's body is buried.  Giving that info to Mike was unwise.  For Mike, he might feel better that a family will know what happened, but as Gus said, you are trying to correct something that cannot be corrected.  He may have made it worse by involving Nacho.

Was Jimmy trying to play "Smoke on the Water" on his guitar?

Yeah, the "anonymous arrowhead seeker trespassing  on Pueblo land who discovers a body" news report may lead Hector to suspect a snitch. Then again, Hector needs to become incapacitated pretty soon, and a pill switch leading to cardiac arrest is the best candidate for a cause.

[ghoulina]

9 hours ago, cyberfruit said:

I had my eyes partially covered during the pill switching scene. Also, I think I stopped breathing when Nacho made the switch and started breathing again once he unballed his fists. 

The tension was too much!

That was a really great scene. And I liked that they showed Nacho practicing the night before, to get it just right. There's a bit of Mike in him - no half measures. Plus, as much as I love the hijinks we're exposed to in the Gilligan world(s), I do sometimes think they're almost too perfect. It was nice to see that Nacho had to really work hard to make the switch work. 

 

8 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think Jimmy was bluffing and in real life the community service guy would laugh at him and dock his hours.  I'm sure he would have dealt with all sorts of threats and scams from the hoodlums he supervises.  The writing of that scene seemed ham handed and unrealistic by BCS standard, like something I would expect on a far inferior show.

I agree. That scene just did not work for me. I found it sort of pointless and fairly hard to believe. 

 

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Can't believe the episode actually made me.... well, not like Chuck, but be glad that he seems to be getting better.

Yea, this show has done a great job with Chuck's character. I still think he's awful, but when we see him independently of his brother, and just struggling to overcome his mental illness - I can't help but root for him (even though I think he's overdoing it and the pendulum is going to soon swing the other way. Bug time.) And I'm getting kind of annoyed with Jimmy this week. 

This show!!!!

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Well I bet he does have legal friends who would be happy to do something normal.  Part of his solitude is self-induced.  As for the mental illness, he mentioned medication, I believe.  So it's not that he's trying to outsmart mental illness but rather he was meticulous in tracking the changes in his pain awareness.  And we saw him employing some coping techniques to deal with his anxiety (I'm assuming).  Many of those strategies do engage the brain to prevent worst case scenarios. 

I really enjoyed seeing an inside look at Chuck's therapy.  I know behaviorists often have patients keep records of their pain/anxiety levels just to help them feel on top of the situation.  Then seeing him add on his therapist's trick of naming the colors of the things was cool.  That was a new one to me and you could see how it kept him from descending into a panic attack.

Jimmy's nasty, sneering attitude toward his kind-hearted father was just awful to see. Even his fellow con-man was a little shocked.

With Chuck being so sympathetic this episode and Jimmy so ugly to everyone, I'm wondering if the writers are trying to turn us into liking Chuck best by the end of the season.

[JFParnell]

24 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Was Jimmy trying to play "Smoke on the Water" on his guitar?

it WAS smoke on the water I think!  As a guitar player, Jimmy makes for a fine lawyer :)

Liked the episode. Nacho's scenes, as always, were so captivating -- to impart so much tension, hardly any dialogue, was incredible. Well done Mr. Mando. Very "BB," his time spent rehearsing the toss into the jacket pocket.

Confession time ... I'm the biggest Chuck basher east of the Mississippi, but I have to say the scene with the doctor, admitting it might all be in his head, was quite moving. I felt sorry for him! For maybe the first time! Overall, I can't staaaaand Chuck, but Michael McKean was/is outstanding playing the poor annoying bugger. 

Slip and fall was hilarious -- you have to think that if Jimmy had been in better "slipping" practice he would not have hurt himself.

Glad Mike is giving the good samaritan's family some closure. Thought it was interesting that Mike shook Gus's hand without knowing precisely what he was agreeing to. That's very un-Mike. He's just diving in, it seems.

Boy, Howard was as excised as we have ever seen him, in his argument with Kim. Dude, I'll take the 14K. My gut says they won't kill Kim - I sorta hope she escapes the vortex into the newly emerging world of Saul.

LOVED Jimmy getting the community servant his time off for $700! Yeah, maybe the director guy caved to the threat too implausibly, but, eh ... we'll forgive them :)

[Bryce Lynch]

25 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Either something with Gus, or Nacho's own misjudgment will do him in, I think.  Maybe the pill switch will never be detected, but only a few people know exactly where the good samaritan's body is buried.  Giving that info to Mike was unwise.  For Mike, he might feel better that a family will know what happened, but as Gus said, you are trying to correct something that cannot be corrected.  He may have made it worse by involving Nacho.

Was Jimmy trying to play "Smoke on the Water" on his guitar?

I doubt there will be any blow back on Nacho from the body being found.  Mike, as usual,  came up with a perfect story.  A guy hunting for arrowheads accidentally discovers the body and calls the police.  There is no reason for Hector to suspect Nacho or anyone else in his gang were involved.  

Unless they were sloppy enough to leave DNA, fingerprints, a bullet from a gun they didn't get rid of,  or other evidence on the body, it is unlikely the murder will ever be connected to Hector and his gang.  Again, Mike was smart.  He didn't call in a tip that the cartel killed a guy and buried in the desert.  He just told them he found a body while searching for arrowheads and gave them, as they would say on "Homicide" or "The Wire", a stone cold whodunit.   Even if they do somehow connect the killing to the cartel, it will seem to Hector like bad luck, not betrayal.  

[tiredofwork]

The entire montage with Nacho prepping the pills, then practicing the drop and the planning of having Hector remove his jacket because Nacho had pre-planned and took out the a/c.. then Nacho sweating and about to crap himself. (but at the same time keeping  cool as a cucumber)  was  probably the best scene I ever saw on this show. 

I see a connection in the makeup of Nacho/Mike/Walter White.   These characters are all sociopaths with a soul.. (yes their soul's do get lost eventually) but they have inherent decency, they are extremely analytical and never go into anything spontaneously.  The time, intricacy and patience to plan, enact,  rehearse, rehearse and rehearse to get it right is impressive on Nacho's part.  Really much more like Mike than Walter though.

I am about through with Chuck and with Kim.  I want this direction to now be the "Ne'er do wells" that Jimmy/Saul will start associating with, working for and walking that fine line with.  I believe enough of Jimmy has been seen, lets get past it onto Saul.

I am reading in these posts people saying there will be a downfall of Kim.., I suppose that is speculation and not spoiler??  I am thinking that at this point she is going to consume herself in the accounts/clients that are now coming to her and make the absolute right decision to bail on Saul for her career.  However, I do think she will be someone that for the rest of her life will be defined by her work as opposed to relationship, family, etc..

[Ohwell]

Meh.  I still don't like Chuck, I never will, and I don't give a damn that he's getting "better."  He's the most tiring character on the show and I sincerely hope the writers don't have him back next season.  If he is, then I'm out.

I'm tired of Kim, too, and although I wish her well, I don't want to see her next season either. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Ohwell

[Jextella]

6 hours ago, Diamond Dog said:

The other key moment was Chuck's explanation about how is illness is as "real as that chair" because it was a heartbreaking moment of realization about how the disease has stifled him. For the first time, Chuck was being vulnerable, and it was a very touching moment. 

This scene reminded me of the 2001 movie A Beautiful Mind - a biography of nobel prize winner John Nash who was a paranoid schozophrenic.  I may not have this completely right going on memory 'n all, but if I'm not mistaken, for a long time, John had recurring moments of paranoid delusion during which he would see a little girl .   One day, it struck him that the delusions couldn't be real because the girl in them never ages.  He needed "proof" and this realization was it.   It was kind of like Chuck's realization that he is delusional learning he had a battery in his pocket for two hours without suffering adverse consequences.

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

Sadly, I also fear the Mike and Gus' formalized partnership is going to lead to Nacho's demise, and Mike's role in that demise is going help push Mike into being a full time participant in the violent drug trade. Morally and ethically speaking, Jimmy and Mike are dissolving before our eyes. You might say they are breaking bad.

Yes, I blelieve there was an interview in which the writers said the same.  Both Mike and Jimmy are  breaking bad :)

Edited June 6, 2017 by Jextella

[JFParnell]

5 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Then seeing him add on his therapist's trick of naming the colors of the things was cool.  That was a new one to me and you could see how it kept him from descending into a panic attack.

Thank you! Embarrassing but I was totally asleep at the switch on that one -- I was like "wait, what's with the colors? did I miss something?" 

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I was so nervous during the pill swap scene. I also loved watching Nacho practice palming the pills off.

I have empathy for Chuck as I would for anyone with a mental illness, but it doesn't mean Chuck's not still an asshole. I also said aloud, while he dreamed of having all his friends in the house 'Chuck, you don't have any friends'.

It's really kind of tragic to watch Jimmy become full fledged Saul. LIke, epic-Shakespearean kind of tragedy.

I dtill think Chuck's illness is a manifestation of his assholery, that he convinced himself that electricity attacked him because doing so allowed Chuck to control and manipulate Jimmy, Howard , and everbody else. He's only now ending his delusion because the delusion has lost much of its ability to manipulate other people, especially Jimmy, and in fact, the delusion now acts as something which prevents Chuck from having his revenge on Jimmy,  which is what Chuck wants above anything else now. Thus, the delusion must end.

Chuck's the worst kind of A-hole; one whose brain won't even admit that it wants to be an A-hole.

[Jextella]

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I dtill think Chuck's illness is a manifestation of his assholery, that he convinced himself that electricity attacked him because doing so allowed Chuck to control and manipulate Jimmy, Howard , and everbody else. He's only now ending his delusion because the delusion has lost much of its ability to manipulate other people, especially Jimmy, and in fact, the delusion now acts as something which prevents Chuck from having his revenge on Jimmy,  which is what Chuck wants above anything else now. Thus, the delusion must end.

Chuck's the worst kind of A-hole; one whose brain won't even admit that it wants to be an A-hole.

Intersting theory, i.e. the illness is a form of manipulation. It doesn't work on Jimmy anymore.  Similar stuff happened to Jimmy last episode.  His charms failed to sway person after person.  It wasn't working any more. 

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, JFParnell said:

it WAS smoke on the water I think!  As a guitar player, Jimmy makes for a fine lawyer :)

Liked the episode. Nacho's scenes, as always, were so captivating -- to impart so much tension, hardly any dialogue, was incredible. Well done Mr. Mando. Very "BB," his time spent rehearsing the toss into the jacket pocket.

Confession time ... I'm the biggest Chuck basher east of the Mississippi, but I have to say the scene with the doctor, admitting it might all be in his head, was quite moving. I felt sorry for him! For maybe the first time! Overall, I can't staaaaand Chuck, but Michael McKean was/is outstanding playing the poor annoying bugger. 

Slip and fall was hilarious -- you have to think that if Jimmy had been in better "slipping" practice he would not have hurt himself.

Glad Mike is giving the good samaritan's family some closure. Thought it was interesting that Mike shook Gus's hand without knowing precisely what he was agreeing to. That's very un-Mike. He's just diving in, it seems.

Boy, Howard was as excised as we have ever seen him, in his argument with Kim. Dude, I'll take the 14K. My gut says they won't kill Kim - I sorta hope she escapes the vortex into the newly emerging world of Saul.

LOVED Jimmy getting the community servant his time off for $700! Yeah, maybe the director guy caved to the threat too implausibly, but, eh ... we'll forgive them :)

Give Jimmy a break on the guitar playing...he has a bad back. :)

Mando is amazing at acting without words.  His facial expressions and body language say more than most actors get across with pages of dialogue.  

I have always been on the (very roomy) "Chuck is not THAT bad" bandwagon, but the scenes with the doctor and seeing him shopping really made me feel for him.  Chuck shopping reminded me a bit of Walt's "fugue state" in the grocery store (without the nudity).  I was hoping it was the same store, but it wasn't.  

Yes, I wonder what Gus wants from Mike.  It will be interesting to see what allows them to make their business relationship public, without fearing repercussions from Hector and the cartel.  The writers might be trying to fill in a potential plot hole there.  Perhaps Gus simply gets promoted above Hector and his minions and full control of the territory and doesn't have to worry about what they think.  Also, Hector doesn't know that Mike's fight with Tuco was a setup, so while he might not like Mike, he wouldn't necessarily be seen as someone who schemed against the cartel.  

I thought Jimmy should have come up with something way more creative to get the $700 and himself the dealer out of trash duty.  

[benteen]

9 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think Jimmy was bluffing and in real life the community service guy would laugh at him and dock his hours.  I'm sure he would have dealt with all sorts of threats and scams from the hoodlums he supervises.  The writing of that scene seemed ham handed and unrealistic by BCS standard, like something I would expect on a far inferior show.

The BCS writers also wrote Breaking Bad, which featured a scene where the characters created and used a super magnet to pull off a mission, which I thought was one of the most ridiculous things possible.  So they have their moments too and as much as I love BB, there were times where the only reason Walt and Jesse survived the stuff they did was because of their plot armor.

I do agree that in real life, the parole guy wouldn't have budged and docked his hours.  I had no issue with him doing that two weeks ago, when Jimmy spent his entire community service on the phone.

[Jextella]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

When Chuck was talking  to the doctor, it almost seemed as if he would explicitly acknowledge Jimmy's crucial role in leading him to the realization that his illness was in his head, as a result of having arranged to have the phone battery planted on him. I half expected  him to reach out to Jimmy as a result, only to be immediately crushed by the news regarding his malpractice insurance.

Something is up with that whole scene.  More to come for sure.  

This scene made me think we are seeing the beginnings of a war between the two brothers. Both Jimmy and Chuck have had layers of themselves peeled off because they weren't working any more.  Jimmy's charisma and Chuck's delusions.  Without these suits of armor, they are more raw which makes timing ripe for a blood bath!

I also sensesed that Chuck has begun the process of building an army.  The doctor will be one of his minions.  She seemed a bit enamored by and sympathetic to Chuck.

[Bryce Lynch]

10 hours ago, mattie0808 said:

^^^Me too! Even though we pretty know where this is headed. That was intense. I thought Nacho might give himself a stroke by accident, lol.

He should have just hired a professional, Huell Babineaux, to switch the pills.  :)

57 minutes ago, benteen said:

The BCS writers also wrote Breaking Bad, which featured a scene where the characters created and used a super magnet to pull off a mission, which I thought was one of the most ridiculous things possible.  So they have their moments too and as much as I love BB, there were times where the only reason Walt and Jesse survived the stuff they did was because of their plot armor.

I do agree that in real life, the parole guy wouldn't have budged and docked his hours.  I had no issue with him doing that two weeks ago, when Jimmy spent his entire community service on the phone.

Blasphemy!  The magnet caper was awesome....like funyuns!   :)

Edited June 6, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, benteen said:

The BCS writers also wrote Breaking Bad, which featured a scene where the characters created and used a super magnet to pull off a mission, which I thought was one of the most ridiculous things possible.  So they have their moments too and as much as I love BB, there were times where the only reason Walt and Jesse survived the stuff they did was because of their plot armor.

I do agree that in real life, the parole guy wouldn't have budged and docked his hours.  I had no issue with him doing that two weeks ago, when Jimmy spent his entire community service on the phone.

Ridiculous plot armor is more tolerable when it comes with large doses of humor. The giant magnet scene was at least really funny. They were going for some humor with the community service scene (which had its central purpose being to show Jimmy how much money even street-level drug dealers had to throw around for very basic legal work) , but I really wish they had been a bit more clever. 

[benteen]

6 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

He should have just hired a professional, Huell Babineaux, to switch the pills.  :)

Blasphemy!  The magnet caper was as awesome....like funyuns!   :)

Well, I didn't say I hated it.  I just found it ridiculous.  The train robbery I LOVED.  Not the very last part of it of course....

Quote

I mostly just felt embarrassed for Jimmy. Even in the flashback, rummaging through old coins he'd hidden as a kid, like he was breaking open his piggy bank. What kind of occupation is that for a grown man? What a waste.

Yeah, that was a real low point for Jimmy and showed him at his most pathetic. 

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, benteen said:

Well, I didn't say I hated it.  I just found it ridiculous.  The train robbery I LOVED.  Not the very last part of it of course....

Yeah, that was a real low point for Jimmy and showed him at his most pathetic. 

I loved the magnet and the train robbery, but I thought the train robbery was less plausible than the magnet caper.  

[ShadowFacts]

28 minutes ago, JFParnell said:

Slip and fall was hilarious -- you have to think that if Jimmy had been in better "slipping" practice he would not have hurt himself.

I'm not usually much for slapstick and I don't like to see people get hurt in real life, but I did have to laugh at that, it was so extreme.  The stuntman surely felt that one.

28 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I doubt there will be any blow back on Nacho from the body being found.  Mike, as usual,  came up with a perfect story.  A guy hunting for arrowheads accidentally discovers the body and calls the police.  There is no reason for Hector to suspect Nacho or anyone else in his gang were involved.  

Unless they were sloppy enough to leave DNA, fingerprints, a bullet from a gun they didn't get rid of,  or other evidence on the body, it is unlikely the murder will ever be connected to Hector and his gang.  Again, Mike was smart.  He didn't call in a tip that the cartel killed a guy and buried in the desert.  He just told them he found a body while searching for arrowheads and gave them, as they would say on "Homicide" or "The Wire", a stone cold whodunit.   Even if they do somehow connect the killing to the cartel, it will seem to Hector like bad luck, not betrayal.  

Mike's story was good, good enough for the tribal police, and maybe you're right that Hector won't get suspicious.  But then again, Hector's been having a run of bad luck, having his truck hijacked, another truck seized at the border and his business searched.  I think it would be natural to start thinking of somebody close to him being disloyal.  I think Nacho is living dangerously.

As for Mike being so very smart, I don't and never did get on that train.  He's already made some mistakes and failed to think of possible consequences.  Ditto Nacho.  Yes, he is motivated by familial love and protecting his father, but he's in deep with Hector, and his own dealing.  Mike was able to discover that he was dealing on the side, and if Mike can, so can Hector.  Nacho was present when the truck driver was shot, we saw that I think, and for him to know where the body of the good samaritan was, it's at least an even bet he was there, too.  He knows a lot, he handles the money, and for those reasons alone, he should be more careful than he is with handing out info to Mike or anyone else.   He could have just said he didn't know where the body was and that be the end of the conversation. 

[peeayebee]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So Jimmy really hurt his back in the slip-n-fall stunt. Is that typical of that kind of scam?

Since it was being filmed, Jimmy had to make it look real -- Strike that: It had to be real.

 

7 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The BS he used on the douche drill sergeant supervisor was also off.  A guy like that, who saw right through the drug dealer (it was made clear he needed to be somewhere to deal, not be with his baby) and any number of slackers, would be smart enough to understand he would be covered by the government with legal representation for acting under his job.

I may have to watch again, but I thought the drug dealer was being honest about needing to see his baby. Yes, Jimmy saw thru his lie that he didn't have any money, that he had a wad in his sock, but I believed the reason he gave for needing time off.

 

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Even if we assume the threat would have worked, I still think it was lazy, clichéd writing.  The "I'll bury you in paperwork and legal fees!" trope had been done so many times.  The BB, BCS writing team is normally 100 times more creative in coming up with schemes that characters use to accomplish goals.

I think the threat Jimmy made being so basic and unimaginative was intentional on the writers' part. It's a link betw fun, creative Jimmy and corrupted Saul. Jimmy is changing and leaving behind his humanity, which includes his humor, charm, and fun. Yes, Saul in BB was likable at times, but I think the pendulum right now is swinging far past where it'll end up stopping. 

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

I was so nervous during the pill swap scene. I also loved watching Nacho practice palming the pills off.

I have empathy for Chuck as I would for anyone with a mental illness, but it doesn't mean Chuck's not still an asshole. I also said aloud, while he dreamed of having all his friends in the house 'Chuck, you don't have any friends'.

It's really kind of tragic to watch Jimmy become full fledged Saul. LIke, epic-Shakespearean kind of tragedy.

Ditto.

Isn't it amazing just what kind of effect a good director can have on the audience? This director seems to be magnificent.

I get the feeling that this director could take a simple - almost meaningless scene - and make it seem very exciting and have people sitting on the edge of their seats. Seems to me this is a very important lesson to be learned by other shows. Many other shows just don't seem to realize the value or importance of making scenes achieve big impacts. Or maybe I just don't understand what is going on behind the scenes? After all, I have no experience in creating video drama. So I may very well just not understand why more shows don't make their scenes have far greater impact.

Would anyone care to try and explain what might be going on behind the scenes to me?

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I'm not usually much for slapstick and I don't like to see people get hurt in real life, but I did have to laugh at that, it was so extreme.  The stuntman surely felt that one.

Mike's story was good, good enough for the tribal police, and maybe you're right that Hector won't get suspicious.  But then again, Hector's been having a run of bad luck, having his truck hijacked, another truck seized at the border and his business searched.  I think it would be natural to start thinking of somebody close to him being disloyal.  I think Nacho is living dangerously.

As for Mike being so very smart, I don't and never did get on that train.  He's already made some mistakes and failed to think of possible consequences.  Ditto Nacho.  Yes, he is motivated by familial love and protecting his father, but he's in deep with Hector, and his own dealing.  Mike was able to discover that he was dealing on the side, and if Mike can, so can Hector.  Nacho was present when the truck driver was shot, we saw that I think, and for him to know where the body of the good samaritan was, it's at least an even bet he was there, too.  He knows a lot, he handles the money, and for those reasons alone, he should be more careful than he is with handing out info to Mike or anyone else.   He could have just said he didn't know where the body was and that be the end of the conversation. 

Mike is a genius at investigations, that is why he was able to find out about Nacho.   If Hector had so little trust in Nacho, that he would suspect it was him and not some random guy with a metal detectctor stumbling over the body, he would already be in a hole in the desert, not Hector's second in command. 

[nodorothyparker]

The scenes of Nacho practicing and practicing the pill swap were terrific.  Too often we see characters do something like that that we know should take some degree of practice and skill like it's nothing and we mostly accept it because there is a certain amount of suspension of disbelief in TV viewing, but it's nice to get some acknowledgement that like Mike throwing the shoes over the wire it generally doesn't go right the first time and you have to work at it.  The suspense in everything through the actual swap was cranked up so high I felt like I couldn't breathe.

I'm finding myself in a strange position here after spending seasons mostly defending Chuck as a character.  Because I'm not completely convinced that he's truly serious about wanting to get better as much as wanting to provide himself with some cover and thinking it's simply a mind over matter thing.  He's a monster control freak, so to him it probably stands to reason that if he really commits to it he should be able to control this too.  I think he's more concerned about how pathetic he came out of that disciplinary hearing looking, even before he gets whatever the news is about his malpractice insurance.  It's been in Howard's interests up to this point to smile and nod and go along with Chuck, but Chuck knows that Howard had a front-row seat to his meltdown and that if there's any fallout to be had it will likely be coming from Howard's direction first.   But Chuck's now got documentation that he's seeking treatment, so who can possibly fault him for that?

Sure, the lawsuit threat to the community service guy was a little cliched, but I didn't get the impression it wasn't supposed to be.  Jimmy is devolving into Saul now and it's the lazy obvious sort of thing Saul would do.  I'm currently in the middle of a season 3 rewatch of Breaking Bad and he is always looking for an easy lawsuit there.  Community service guy is clearly used to dealing with the dead-eyed blue collar level of offenders who sign their releases and do their time with maybe only the usual amount of grumbling about what a dick he is.  The reality is that a lot of people who don't regularly deal with lawyers are intimidated just by the idea of being sued exactly because of what Jimmy threatened.  If you're an hourly employee who can't afford years of legal fees and court time, what does it really cost you to sign a form and avoid the hassle?  It was cheap and ugly because it was supposed to be.

[SunnyBeBe]

59 minutes ago, JFParnell said:

 

Confession time ... I'm the biggest Chuck basher east of the Mississippi, but I have to say the scene with the doctor, admitting it might all be in his head, was quite moving. I felt sorry for him! For maybe the first time! Overall, I can't staaaaand Chuck, but Michael McKean was/is outstanding playing the poor annoying bugger. 

Slip and fall was hilarious -- you have to think that if Jimmy had been in better "slipping" practice he would not have hurt himself.

Glad Mike is giving the good samaritan's family some closure. Thought it was interesting that Mike shook Gus's hand without knowing precisely what he was agreeing to. That's very un-Mike. He's just diving in, it seems.

 

Ref. boldface above.  I think I take that position in the bashing dept. . lol  I still can't stand Chuck.  My only option is to ff through his scenes. I didn't last night, but, think I will next time, since it seems he will never go away.  My take is that Chuck hasn't received word from the insurance company yet. I think his mood will not be as good once he does.   

I suspect that there is just something inside Jimmy that makes him Saul like, but, it's exacerbated when he observes perceived injustices.  For example,  how a drug dealer casually throws around $700.00 and the lengths that he (a professional, though now unlicensed) has to go to in order to get that kind of money.  It's still low and not right, but, I can empathize with him.  

I agree with Bannon, above about Kim.  If she spreads too thin, it's going to be bad.  With complex civil/regulatory matters, she needs help.  She needs a team of support staff.   I do worry for her.  

[Blakeston]

I could have bought the community service supervisor giving in if he was the "who cares about this job, I just want to get my paycheck and go home" type. But they'd already established that he savored having power over these people, and he was all about keeping them in line.

No way would he give that up, and swallow his pride, and let one of the convicts blatantly win a battle with him, over a ridiculous threat that would have gotten Jimmy into far more trouble than him.

[Bryce Lynch]

3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I thought that that was why she initially agreed to look at the oil case. Even if she referred it to a colleague, there might be some compensation for her. Now that she will be keeping  the case, I don't see how she will do justice to both it and Mesa Verde. Paige knows this could  be an issue. Kim already can't keep track of which day she last saw Jimmy.

When I rewatched the scene from last week when Kim took the 5 minute nap in the car, I started to wonder if sleep deprivation might lead to Kim having some sort of accident.  When she awakened so jarringly by the alarm, it reminded me of someone waking up after dozing off at the wheel, while driving.  

[scenario]

8 hours ago, Bannon said:

The most ham handed element of the community service scene is that the city would likely be required to pay for his defense, and that's before we get to the qualified immunity element. There's a reason police officers are so seldom sued personally, and the same principle would likely apply here. The writers of this show are usually better than this, and I wish they had written something more clever.

The pill switch was terrific, and I suspect Chuck is getting better only because he knows his "illness" won't let him control Jimmy like it once did, and Chuck really wants tevenge on Jimmy

Love that they showed that slip 'n fall guys sometimes get hurt.

The suit wouldn't work. Jimmy knows it. The community service guy knows it. But it would make the CS guy run around in circles filling out paperwork and and annoying both him and his boss. CS guy will probably end up getting transferred to a different job that he doesn't like just to shut Jimmy up. 

[nodorothyparker]

Sure, community service guy is one of those guys who's going to exercise his little bit of power where he can because there's really no consequences for him not to.  And yeah, Jimmy will get in trouble if he makes good on his threat, which isn't likely to go anywhere.  But the complaint may also cause trouble with his job if it turns into a he said she said of Jimmy inciting his fellow offenders to also complain about him abusing his power of the clip board.  That's probably worth at least a news article or two and department scrutiny, especially if it does turn into a drawn out legal proceeding.

I think we're seriously underestimating how much the average person does NOT want to be sued or bogged down in any kind of lawsuit if there's any easy out that doesn't really cost them anything.

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, scenario said:

The suit wouldn't work. Jimmy knows it. The community service guy knows it. But it would make the CS guy run around in circles filling out paperwork and and annoying both him and his boss. CS guy will probably end up getting transferred to a different job that he doesn't like just to shut Jimmy up. 

Oh, it wasn't terrible, in terms of writing, but the bit about the guy having to spend his own money on his defense was just kind of stupid. No, there isn't a city employee in Albuquerque who fears being forced to pay for a defense in a civil suit, based on what the employee did on the job. A little more attention to detail would have resulted in a better scene.

[Wouldofshouldof]

There was a throwaway sight gag in Breaking Bad where Walt barges into Saul's office and Saul was stretched out on the floor with some kind of massage doohickey.  It wasn't explained what he was doing in that scene - I wonder if his back never recovered from the slip & fall at the guitar store...

[Bannon]

17 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

When I rewatched the scene from last week when Kim took the 5 minute nap in the car, I started to wonder if sleep deprivation might lead to Kim having some sort of accident.  When she awakened so jarringly by the alarm, it reminded me of someone waking up after dozing off at the wheel, while driving.  

Yeah, there are many credible scenarios for Kim being out of Jimmy's life. I'm kind of dreading some of them.

[benteen]

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Yeah, there are many credible scenarios for Kim being out of Jimmy's life. I'm kind of dreading some of them.

I think Kim will survive till the end of Better Call Saul.  Chuck I think will be a goner.

[scenario]

4 minutes ago, benteen said:

I think Kim will survive till the end of Better Call Saul.  Chuck I think will be a goner.

Chuck may end up as a goner or he may end up as a part time player in the background of a few episodes. I could see him trying to make trouble for Saul and the drug dealers and ending up dead that way. 

[Atlanta]

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

Yeah, the scene where Kim, after conversing with guitar strumming Jimmy, decides to handle the oil field guy's regulatory issues herself, as opposed to referring it out, could go two ways. It may set the stage where she gets spread too thin, what with her handling MV's regulatory issues with expanding into multiple states, she makes a major mistake, and the whole thing comes crashing down. Or, she does a great job with MV and oil guy, and starts to be seen as a real up and comer in the regulatory compliance subset of the legal trade (which of course has always been part of Chuck's big reputation), and this becomes her ticket out of Albuquerque, maybe to a city as big as Houston, Dallas, or Phoenix.

My hope is this. I know characters in the BCS/BB world usually come to a tragic ending, but I'd like for her to be the exception. Maybe she hires an associate to help with the work.

Howard didn't need to be such a jerk to her. Isn't that low for such a successful partner in a big law firm? Kim would never do that sort of thing. Sorry, Howard, you enabled Chuck and his issues. Now the cat's out of the bag and you're whining that you may need to reassure your clients? Boo freakin' hoo.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Atlanta

[ShadowFacts]

59 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Mike is a genius at investigations, that is why he was able to find out about Nacho.   If Hector had so little trust in Nacho, that he would suspect it was him and not some random guy with a metal detectctor stumbling over the body, he would already be in a hole in the desert, not Hector's second in command. 

I didn't say he had so little trust in Nacho.  But, he would be foolish to be completely trusting.  Any "employer" without basic oversight can be robbed blind.  Hector suspected (wrongly) that the truck driver that Mike hijacked was complicit, so he killed him.  Nacho has already tried to arrange Tuco's and Hector's deaths (which we know were not successful) and he's been blabbing to an outsider;  I don't think chances of his own long-term survival are high. 

Did Chet say that Jimmy's mom gave him Little Debbies?  I was a little distracted. 

[Auntie Anxiety]

32 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I think we're seriously underestimating how much the average person does NOT want to be sued or bogged down in any kind of lawsuit if there's any easy out that doesn't really cost them anything.

My ex-husband was a lawyer (now disbarred) and just the mere fact that he was an attorney (and an asshole) would make average people quake in their boots. When we were divorcing, he even tried this same threatening b.s. on me, countersuing for no reason when HE was the one who wasn't paying his share of child support to the tune of thousands of dollars. Since he could represent himself in court (and I had to hire a lawyer), he thought I'd just give up. Sadly, it did cost a fortune to get what was rightfully theirs. But the strategy definitely works and that's why people settle out of court.

37 minutes ago, Wouldofshouldof said:

There was a throwaway sight gag in Breaking Bad where Walt barges into Saul's office and Saul was stretched out on the floor with some kind of massage doohickey.  It wasn't explained what he was doing in that scene - I wonder if his back never recovered from the slip & fall at the guitar store...

Great catch on that, Wouldofshouldof. Those scenes in BB made me laugh. Not sure if I'm conflating the shows, but did Jimmy have someone walking on his back when he lived in the nail salon? Maybe he has always had a bad back from all his slippin' incidents?

I want to believe that Jimmy is pushing Kim away because he knows he's not good for her and he loves her enough to let her go.

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, tiredofwork said:

The entire montage with Nacho prepping the pills, then practicing the drop and the planning of having Hector remove his jacket because Nacho had pre-planned and took out the a/c.. then Nacho sweating and about to crap himself. (but at the same time keeping  cool as a cucumber)  was  probably the best scene I ever saw on this show. 

I see a connection in the makeup of Nacho/Mike/Walter White.   These characters are all sociopaths with a soul.. (yes their soul's do get lost eventually) but they have inherent decency, they are extremely analytical and never go into anything spontaneously.  The time, intricacy and patience to plan, enact,  rehearse, rehearse and rehearse to get it right is impressive on Nacho's part.  Really much more like Mike than Walter though.

I am about through with Chuck and with Kim.  I want this direction to now be the "Ne'er do wells" that Jimmy/Saul will start associating with, working for and walking that fine line with.  I believe enough of Jimmy has been seen, lets get past it onto Saul.

I am reading in these posts people saying there will be a downfall of Kim.., I suppose that is speculation and not spoiler??  I am thinking that at this point she is going to consume herself in the accounts/clients that are now coming to her and make the absolute right decision to bail on Saul for her career.  However, I do think she will be someone that for the rest of her life will be defined by her work as opposed to relationship, family, etc..

I agree with some of what is being said here about Nacho/Miike/Walter bu they definitely aren't sociopathic, which is a condition characterized by, among other things, poor impulse control, and an inability to feel morally remorseful. None of the three are impulsive, as you note, and all three demonstrate remorse, not for being caught in a misdeed, but genuine moral regret about the harm caused to others. They frequently proceed with their chosen business despite that regret, but they do feel the regret. A sociopath has no such feelings of regret, which is one reason why sociopaths can be sort of uninteresting, if malignant, people.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Bannon

[PeterPirate]

I wonder if Kim will have Jimmy work on the Oil Field client case surreptitiously. 

Iirc, Marco sang the song "Butthole" in his introductory scene, which has the same melody as "Smoke On The Water". 

Edited June 6, 2017 by PeterPirate

[Bryce Lynch]

28 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I didn't say he had so little trust in Nacho.  But, he would be foolish to be completely trusting.  Any "employer" without basic oversight can be robbed blind.  Hector suspected (wrongly) that the truck driver that Mike hijacked was complicit, so he killed him.  Nacho has already tried to arrange Tuco's and Hector's deaths (which we know were not successful) and he's been blabbing to an outsider;  I don't think chances of his own long-term survival are high. 

Did Chet say that Jimmy's mom gave him Little Debbies?  I was a little distracted. 

I think there would be zero reason for Hector to suspect Nacho and he is currently his most trusted employee.  If Mike had called in a tip about a cartel murder, then, yes, Hector would have reason to suspect all who were involved or knew about the murder.  But, the way he called it in should not make Hector suspect anyone ratted him out. Also, if he had been ratted out, you would expect the police to make arrests or at least search his businesses and home and question people.  There would be no good reason for a rat within his organization to call in the body, without also implicating Hector.   Mike's plan was perfect. 

Yes, Marco said that Jimmy's Mom gave him Little Debbies.  I was eating a Little Debbies cupcake while watching the show. :)

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I wonder if Kim will have Jimmy work on the Oil Field client case surreptitiously. 

Iirc, Marco sang the song "Butthole" in his introductory scene, which has the same melody as "Smoke On The Water". 

I hope the writers don't write Kim so stupid that she would do that. There isn't any need to advance the plot, with so many possible avenues, for Kim to be a moron about Jimmy, just when she is in the verge of tremendous professional success. One of the things I love about Gilligan & Co.'s writing is that they rarely ever resort to writing a major character as being an unrealistic idiot (except for comic effect), for purposes of plot advancement.

The body wasn't buried that deep, which was realistic, given it was an unplanned murder, and animals will dig up shallowly buried carrion pretty reliably. The body's discovery shouldn't be a shocking development for Hector

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

I could have bought the community service supervisor giving in if he was the "who cares about this job, I just want to get my paycheck and go home" type. But they'd already established that he savored having power over these people, and he was all about keeping them in line.

No way would he give that up, and swallow his pride, and let one of the convicts blatantly win a battle with him, over a ridiculous threat that would have gotten Jimmy into far more trouble than him.

Yeah, if they had just wtitten the guy as a lazy clock watcher, then Jimmy threatening to keep him tied up in paperwork, meeting with superiors, and city-paid lawyers, on baseless complaints, because Jimmy expertise as a lawyer dealing with city government gave him insight as to how to keep the bureaucracy chasing it's tail, it would have been better written.

It's not a big deal to me, but usually these writers don't make this sort of mistake.

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I hope the writers don't write Kim so stupid that she would do that. There isn't any need to advance the plot, with so many possible avenues, for Kim to be a moron about Jimmy, just when she is in the verge of tremendous professional success. One of the things I love about Gilligan & Co.'s writing is that they rarely ever resort to writing a major character as being an unrealistic idiot (except for comic effect), for purposes of plot advancement.

The body wasn't buried that deep, which was realistic, given it was an unplanned murder, and animals will dig up shallowly buried carrion pretty reliably. The body's discovery shouldn't be a shocking development for Hector

Good point about the characters not being written to do gratuitously stupid things.  The only exception I might suggest is Jesse stealing from Fring, but he was pretty mentally and emotionally screwed up at the time.   

Agree about the body.  

[Bannon]

11 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Good point about the characters not being written to do gratuitously stupid things.  The only exception I might suggest is Jesse stealing from Fring, but he was pretty mentally and emotionally screwed up at the time.   

Agree about the body.  

That didn't strike me as unrealistically dumb, given Jesse had the classic personality of a drug addict. The dumbest unrealistic thing that major characters did on Breaking Bad was not killing Jesse with a faked self-overdose in a drug house, when Walt was insisting that Gale was an unacceptable subordinate, and only Jesse would do, but I understand why the writers did it. The writers did not expect Jesse to be such a wildy popular character with the fans, the show wasn't yet the monster hit it was at the end of the show, and they decided killing him off was too risky. Show business is a business, first and foremost.  

Edited June 6, 2017 by Bannon