Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[rmontro]

8 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

This assumes his ending is the bad stuff  supposedly leaked though.  Like Martin said, if the endings deal they might go after him with pitch forks.

I'd be thrilled if the spoilers turned out to be wrong, but I don't think they are (basically).  You can kind of see where they're going with it.  If they aren't going to have Dany go mad, why have the Starks trying to turn the viewers against her?  Like Arya saying "She's not one of us", and Sansa saying "She frightens me"?

But I agree with Umbelina that GRRM would at least write it better, and not be all rushed into at the very end, which feels very unsettling.

[Umbelina]

11 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

snip

This is SO frickin' good!  I posted it after just watching a bit, but now, I think he nailed almost all of it.

Highly recommended.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Umbelina
snipped

[Andromeda]

I realized it's not even character death that annoys me, though there seems to be a lot of it. My issue is unearned story death. The characters should be on a cohesive journey. I don't want to feel that watching them struggle and surmount obstacles over 7 years was as waste of time. Why did we follow this character all these years if they never learned anything or weren't able to apply what they learned?

Which is how I feel about Dany going crazy. If that was her fate, begin her narrative when she arrives at Dragonstone. Fill in backstory with dialogue. We've already heard through the years that she's coming. That's all I would need to know about her, and I would have been eyeing her suspiciously instead of rooting for her.

Same with Jamie, if he's acting toward his sister just as he did when we first met him.

And Bran... What is with that guy? What does he want now? Who knows? Oh, right, a comfortable chair. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Andromeda

[Stallion12]

21 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Well, one thing is certain, GRRM won't rush through the ending, or completely ignore important details such as listening to the sisters reacting to the new about Jon and their father concerning his parents.

I also know GRRM will continue to write his best stuff, the plight of the non-royals, which, could make this ending somewhat joyous.  No more throne!

Dany would not suddenly do a complete out of control turn either, though I'm sure she will in the books, it will be much more earned and believable.

Also, I seriously hope Cersei dies long before the climax ending of GoT.

Kind of interesting, stuff wrong with season 8.

No doubt he'd write it better.

[Stallion12]

15 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I'd be thrilled if the spoilers turned out to be wrong, but I don't think they are (basically).  You can kind of see where they're going with it.  If they aren't going to have Dany go mad, why have the Starks trying to turn the viewers against her?  Like Arya saying "She's not one of us", and Sansa saying "She frightens me"?

But I agree with Umbelina that GRRM would at least write it better, and not be all rushed into at the very end, which feels very unsettling.

He's write it better I agree, but he would know the rumored ending wouldn't go over well, so I'm not saying it's false, but I feel like he's come up with something better.

[rmontro]

15 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

I realized it's not even character death that annoys me, though there seems to be a lot of it. My issue is unearned story death. The characters should be on a cohesive journey. I don't want to feel that watching them struggle and surmount obstacles over 7 years was as waste of time. Why did we follow this character all these years if they never learned anything or weren't able to apply what they learned?

Exactly.

We've watched Dany for years, where she came from, what she went through, the things she overcame.  For years.  Only to give her this empty death at the last hour?  I feel like I've been manipulated.  Like the entirety of watching the show was just a waste of time.  I never really expected Dany to get out of the story alive, but I expected her death to have some small shred of meaning to it.

Cersei was built up as this horrible villain, and Dany was built up as the best chance of unseating her, so of course we're going to root for her.  Just like we wanted to see Joffrey get offed (Jack Gleeson was a brilliant performer).  Just one episode ago she was fighting for the North, for Winterfell, and for the living at great personal cost (not that it was appreciated).

If they wanted to show some character growth, they could have had her turn down the throne in the end, realizing it wasn't what she thought it would be.  But instead they just have her go crazy.  If that's the story they wanted to tell, why not just tell the Mad King's story?  Why drag us through all this, only to disappoint us in the end?

12 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

He's write it better I agree, but he would know the rumored ending wouldn't go over well, so I'm not saying it's false, but I feel like he's come up with something better.

I think he's even made comments before that his ending would probably be different than the TV show's.

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I think he's even made comments before that his ending would probably be different than the TV show's.

Where?

All I've seen him say is that he told them the ending of the major characters and the story, but there are details about secondary characters he will still be working out, and didn't tell them.

[rmontro]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

Where?

All I've seen him say is that he told them the ending of the major characters and the story, but there are details about secondary characters he will still be working out, and didn't tell them.

Sorry, it was only a video clip of him making a comment that I saw long ago, I don't remember where. 

[Umbelina]

Ha.

I really hope we hear Dany say "You have woken the DRAGON!" to someone before she kills them or begins to burn KL.  Cersei, Varys, Tyrion, someone.

[rmontro]

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Ha.

I really hope we hear Dany say "You have woken the DRAGON!" to someone before she kills them or begins to burn KL.  Cersei, Varys, Tyrion, someone.

Yeah, and then they can print that catchphrase on cups at Starbucks  🙂

[Umbelina]

[Portia4844]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

This is SO frickin' good!  I posted it after just watching a bit, but now, I think he nailed almost all of it.

Thanks for sharing!  I agree.  He did pretty much nail it.

[Lemuria]

If the latest spoiler that Sansa first joins with Tyrion to replace Dany with Jon is true, then we have to ask, is there anyone Sansa won’t betray to get what she wants?  If so, then deep down inside, she really hasn’t changed from season 1. 

And I still have no clue why some people talk about Jon re-starting the Night Watch. To do what, exactly?   Sit on a 700 foot high block of ice and twiddle his thumbs? There’s nothing we need a Night Watch for anymore. The NK, WW and all the wights are gone. The Free Folk aren’t threats (and even if some idiot Northerners continue to think that, Jon doesn’t and certainly wouldn’t do anything to prevent them from moving freely about Westeros). 

[rmontro]

"Wake YOUR dragon with Starbucks coffee"

Maybe that's why Dany went crazy so suddenly, Sansa poisoned her coffee.

Regarding the video three posts above this one, the guy makes a good argument for Bran becoming king (and Sansa as Hand, probably).  The story does start out being mostly about the Starks, although Jon Snow seems the more likely candidate.  If the Throne is to be taken by Starks, however, Snow is part Targaryen.  So the Bran ending sounds very possible.

I like the idea of getting rid of the Iron Throne and turning rule over to a council better, however.  Besides, how long is Bran as the three eyed raven going to live?  I admit his knowledge would be useful in ruling, but isn't he going to become increasingly more wooden?

Anyone notice the new trailers for Dark Phoenix being shown lately?  There are a lot of parallels between her X-Men character and Daenerys.  This movie looks like a more comic-book accurate version of the third X-Men movie, which also told the "Dark Phoenix" story.  The once good Jean Grey becomes increasingly powerful and out of control and has to be killed by the man who loves her, Wolverine.  From the looks of things, Magneto will get that honor in this film.

Edited May 11, 2019 by rmontro

[WindyNights]

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

How about "invented the new Scorpions"?

It's GRRM's folly.  He said he wanted a bittersweet ending, but he overshot that by a wide margin.  I'm trying to think of a more depressing ending, and off the top of my head I can't think of one.  Even in Romeo and Juliet they are joined together in death;  "Oh happy dagger".

It’s only bitter for Jon and Daenerys.

Everyone other heroic characters gets a sweet/bitter-sweet ending.

The world is saved and King Bran with his Hand are going to reshape Westeros and turn into a more utopian place. The game of throne is over thanks to Bran’s powers 

[rmontro]

12 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

It’s only bitter for Jon and Daenerys.

Everyone other heroic characters gets a sweet/bitter-sweet ending.

It's only bitter for Daenerys.  Jon will at least get to spend his days with his direwolf and brothers/friends.

Looks like things turn out okay if your name is Stark.

Tyrion's ending is bittersweet.  He gets to live but has lost his family.

I wonder what happens to Grey Worm?  Has anyone seen any spoilers relating to him?

The game of thrones will never be over though.  Eventually someone, somewhere will be seeking power in some form or other.  Things may get better, but there isn't going to be a utopia.

I guess things may be happier for the faceless commoners and people of Westeros.  The problem is we've never been introduced to them, we haven't spent eight seasons getting to know them, so it's hard to be emotionally invested in them, or take much joy from their betterment.

[Callista]

56 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Anyone notice the new trailers for Dark Phoenix being shown lately?  There are a lot of parallels between her X-Men character and Daenerys.  This movie looks like a more comic-book accurate version of the third X-Men movie, which also told the "Dark Phoenix" story.  The once good Jean Grey becomes increasingly powerful and out of control and has to be killed by the man who loves her, Wolverine.  From the looks of things, Magneto will get that honor in this film.

Well, at least Jean Grey gets resurrected.

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

I wonder what happens to Grey Worm?  Has anyone seen any spoilers relating to him?

The only thing I heard is that he and Jon share a look of horror when Dany orders her men to kill the disarmed soldiers who are surrendering and starts to burn the city (and the people in it obviously.)  The person said they seemed to be on the same "holy shit!  oh no!  "WTF?" page, but then Grey Worm follows Dany's orders and starts killing away with the rest of them.

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

I guess things may be happier for the faceless commoners and people of Westeros.  The problem is we've never been introduced to them, we haven't spent eight seasons getting to know them, so it's hard to be emotionally invested in them, or take much joy from their betterment.

Huge show failing, they had some in the beginning during Arya's and even the Hound travels, but as they got away from source material, they stayed with "stars" especially Cersei and Dany, the most interesting, with some wall stuff, and Sansa torture thrown in, and the horrid Reek stuff. 

1 hour ago, Lemuria said:

If the latest spoiler that Sansa first joins with Tyrion to replace Dany with Jon is true, then we have to ask, is there anyone Sansa won’t betray to get what she wants?  If so, then deep down inside, she really hasn’t changed from season 1. 

And I still have no clue why some people talk about Jon re-starting the Night Watch. To do what, exactly?   Sit on a 700 foot high block of ice and twiddle his thumbs? There’s nothing we need a Night Watch for anymore. The NK, WW and all the wights are gone. The Free Folk aren’t threats (and even if some idiot Northerners continue to think that, Jon doesn’t and certainly wouldn’t do anything to prevent them from moving freely about Westeros). 

That's a theory, and I personally think that part is idiotic.  The last thing Sansa would want is to leave Winterfell and go live in the south again.  Of course, with KL burned, who knows where the capital will end up?

Second part, WE DO NOT KNOW because the writers seemed to have dropped all magical stuff except dragons.  They are leaving a lot of important (to me anyway) things out, like about the NK, the 3ER, if dragons and WW are codependent, etc.  Hopefully they will bother to answer the magical logic stuff at least a bit.  If not, massive fail on their parts.  For example are seasons back to normal now?  Could the threat happen again?  Do they need a wall just in case?  Are they getting along with the wildlings now? 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Umbelina

[spinxella]

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by spinxella

[BadAssRobinArryn]

6 hours ago, Stallion12 said:

He's write it better I agree, but he would know the rumored ending wouldn't go over well, so I'm not saying it's false, but I feel like he's come up with something better.

If GRR Martin changes his long planned ending, just because the Dany stans don't like it, I will lose a lot of respect that I have for him as a writer. But that won't happen anyway, because he will never write book 7.

[Constantinople]

6 hours ago, Andromeda said:

And Bran... What is with that guy? What does he want now? Who knows? Oh, right, a comfortable chair. 

Which is why Bran doesn't want the Iron Throne

But if the Iron Throne were replaced by  La-Z-Boy?

[Indi]

12 hours ago, loki567 said:

D&D are such strange writers and in how they really seem to think it's not a writer's job to give their characters or story inner meaning. Their response of , "Themes are for eighth-grade book reports," is the most unusual thing I can ever remember seeing from two professional writers in an interview about their work. And even their cast members often seem completely befuddled by D&D's refusal to give them any real direction in why their characters to do the things they do. 

The fact that these two hacks will continue to have a very successful career makes me rage. We get people on the show claiming that this and that character are the Smartest Ever, but those characters keep making incomprehensibly dumb mistakes. Like Arya, Sansa, Tyrion, etc... talking about hiding (and actually doing it) in the crypts during a war against the dead. I'm just... smdh... That's the problem, when two writers, that don't complete the brain of a dead mosquito between the two of them, try to write smart characters.

12 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I said the other day that I wanted Jon to have used Sansa or that the Starks came up with this plan after the reveal.

I kind of like the idea that Jon is as much of an ambitious asshole as the rest of them. Plus at least this way Jon wouldn't be an idiot about everything).

Plus, I really want some reason for the cut scene of the Starks reveal. Like did the show really think that Arya and Sansa's reaction to finding out Jon wasn't Ned's bastard wasn't important? Oh yeah, let's just cut this scene for time, no biggie

Imagine if Jon wasn't a flat electroencephalogram. So much much better! He didn't even need to have the throne, just a few misgivings about Dani, like practically everyone else around him.

[loki567]

A lot of these endings do make sense if you think about them and could be appropriately  bittersweetly satisfying in the right writer's (read GRRM, not D&D) hands. And a lot of stuff has already been guessed: 

Tyrion - Hand of the King.

Sansa - rules the North alone. 

Arya - wanders alone because she's unwilling to conform to Westeros' power structure. 

Jon - My hope is that him returning North isn't about restarting the Night's Watch, it's just about reuniting with Sam, Tormund, Gilly, and the remaining the Night's Watch/Wildlings. Those are the people he's closest with and Jon finding some peace would be a decent ending. 

Dany - she's always been a much more morally ambiguous character in the books and the fact she'll potentially start sliding down the great to insane Targaryen scale is plausible. Of course, the show shot itself in the foot there by not foreshadowing that at all and just turning her into a vehicle to deliver "awesome," moments. 

My only real WTF, that sounds terrible, is Bran being king. I just cannot imagine satisfyingly getting him from where he is in ADWD to king at the end of the series. If that's really GRRM's plan, he might be playing it a little too clever for his own good. 

I think I'd prefer f!Aegon as king over that scenario. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by loki567

[WindyNights]

5 hours ago, rmontro said:

It's only bitter for Daenerys.  Jon will at least get to spend his days with his direwolf and brothers/friends.

Looks like things turn out okay if your name is Stark.

Tyrion's ending is bittersweet.  He gets to live but has lost his family.

I wonder what happens to Grey Worm?  Has anyone seen any spoilers relating to him?

The game of thrones will never be over though.  Eventually someone, somewhere will be seeking power in some form or other.  Things may get better, but there isn't going to be a utopia.

I guess things may be happier for the faceless commoners and people of Westeros.  The problem is we've never been introduced to them, we haven't spent eight seasons getting to know them, so it's hard to be emotionally invested in them, or take much joy from their betterment.

the game of thrones is over. 

Bran can see anyone anywhere at anytime. You cannot play the game with Bran there. Littlefinger learned that to his sorrow

[WindyNights]

40 minutes ago, loki567 said:

A lot of these endings do make sense if you think about them and could be appropriately  bittersweetly satisfying in the right writer's (read GRRM, not D&D) hands. And a lot of stuff has already been guessed: 

Tyrion - Hand of the King.

Sansa - rules the North alone. 

Arya - wanders alone because she's unwilling to conform to Westeros' power structure. 

Jon - My hope is that him returning North isn't about restarting the Night's Watch, it's just about reuniting with Sam, Tormund, Gilly, and the remaining the Night's Watch/Wildlings. Those are the people he's closest with and Jon finding some peace would be a decent ending. 

Dany - she's always been a much more morally ambiguous character in the books and the fact she'll potentially start sliding down the great to insane Targaryen scale is plausible. Of course, the show shot itself in the foot there by not foreshadowing that at all and just turning her into a vehicle to deliver "awesome," moments. 

My only real WTF, that sounds terrible, is Bran being king. I just cannot imagine satisfyingly getting him from where he is in ADWD to king at the end of the series. If that's really GRRM's plan, he might be playing it a little too clever for his own good. 

I think I'd prefer f!Aegon as king over that scenario. 

Although, he had the least screentime/page time out of the main characters, Bran's the most important one. 

The Memory of Man, the Three Eyed Raven, the future king of Westeros, a god, the last son of Eddard Stark, the First POV etc.

[loki567]

That's similar to Arya's "You will close many eyes," thing. Sure, it's foreshadowing. Doesn't make it narratively coherent or satisfying. 

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, Lemuria said:

If the latest spoiler that Sansa first joins with Tyrion to replace Dany with Jon is true, then we have to ask, is there anyone Sansa won’t betray to get what she wants?  If so, then deep down inside, she really hasn’t changed from season 1. 

And I still have no clue why some people talk about Jon re-starting the Night Watch. To do what, exactly?   Sit on a 700 foot high block of ice and twiddle his thumbs? There’s nothing we need a Night Watch for anymore. The NK, WW and all the wights are gone. The Free Folk aren’t threats (and even if some idiot Northerners continue to think that, Jon doesn’t and certainly wouldn’t do anything to prevent them from moving freely about Westeros). 

I would guess to protect the children of the forest?

[BooBear]

11 hours ago, Andromeda said:

 My issue is unearned story death.

Me too and what straight up infuriates me is that I thought I found a show where that kind of thing would never happen. Thus my loyalty. It wasn't like going to see a movie where you aren't sure what you are going to get.  I am also sad for the death of entertainment. There have been so many poor endings (lost, dexter) and poor movies I have to wonder if entertainment is simply not capable of doing it any longer.   I feel like this show "broke the wheel" of Hollywood. I think millions will stop even watching tv shows going forward because it is clear that there is a generation of people working in entertainment who are talentless. I had been considering getting rid of cable before this but afterward.. I will definitely do that. Honestly some of the "You tube" theories were better than the show so I will get my quality fix there. 

[cambridgeguy]

2 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Bran can see anyone anywhere at anytime. You cannot play the game with Bran there. Littlefinger learned that to his sorrow

But only when he gives a damn.  He sure took his sweet time revealing LF's actions, didn't bother telling anyone about Cersei not holding up her end of the bargain, didn't give Dany and Jon a heads up about those ballistas, etc.

In fact, we still don't know why he was so insistent on Jon knowing about his true parentage.  Was it just because he felt Jon deserved to know the truth or does he want him on the throne for some reason?  Because aside from giving him extra motivation to brood that knowledge has made everyone miserable.

[BooBear]

12 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I think Dany would have been happy living a quiet life.  She was doomed by her brother and his idiotic tales of glory and flowers in the streets and rejoicing in Westeros when Targs came back to rule.

I always felt for her too. I feel like she was sort of made to believe she had a destiny and when people see her as power mad I don't see it that way. I see it has her believing she would be "the one" and she had a mission that was larger than her. I am sure she, Dany, the woman would be happy being married and a mother.  It would have been tragic if Dany had believably lost her mind... it would have been tragic if Jon had believably loved her and had to kill her ... but none of it is really believable. 

- Not believable that Dany would lost her mind on this storyline,

- Not believable that Jon ever loved Dany.

- Not believable that Jon's only choice is to kill Dany.  

[SeanC]

4 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

But only when he gives a damn.

The 3ER considers his survival the categorical imperative, so if nothing else he will always act to ensure his continued existence — which means he effectively cannot be deposed.

People have been talking about the implications for succession (something that it looks like the show isn’t going to address for any major house — the characters have their whole lives ahead of them, so that’s fine), but I would assume based on this that Westeros is now a 3ER-ocracy; when Bran dies, whoever gets chosen to have the whole history of the world downloaded into them will take his place.  Basically an eternal god-king.

[Affogato]

22 hours ago, Indi said:

Someone at r/freefolk is claiming they saw a clip and the Dothraki raping really happens, but it looks like Dani didn't order that. I really want to believe that.

It is  established that rape and pillage are standard procedure for Dothraki at war. Wife of Khal exempt. Without a clip it would be a given this happened especially after the disaster at winterfell. The remaining Dothraki would want to let loose. 

I think the Dothraki are based on the Mongols, who were Caucasian, although POC, Chinese, were absorbed into the horde and also raped and pillaged, leaving genetic markers through Europe  

If that makes anyone feel better.  

I think Dany has been dragging these armies aound without considering the culture shock involved for all concerned and possibly different customs in the aftermath of war is part of it. 

[Eyes High]

3 hours ago, loki567 said:

A lot of these endings do make sense if you think about them and could be appropriately  bittersweetly satisfying in the right writer's (read GRRM, not D&D) hands. And a lot of stuff has already been guessed: 

Tyrion - Hand of the King.

Sansa - rules the North alone. 

Arya - wanders alone because she's unwilling to conform to Westeros' power structure. 

Jon - My hope is that him returning North isn't about restarting the Night's Watch, it's just about reuniting with Sam, Tormund, Gilly, and the remaining the Night's Watch/Wildlings. Those are the people he's closest with and Jon finding some peace would be a decent ending. 

Dany - she's always been a much more morally ambiguous character in the books and the fact she'll potentially start sliding down the great to insane Targaryen scale is plausible. Of course, the show shot itself in the foot there by not foreshadowing that at all and just turning her into a vehicle to deliver "awesome," moments. 

My only real WTF, that sounds terrible, is Bran being king. I just cannot imagine satisfyingly getting him from where he is in ADWD to king at the end of the series. If that's really GRRM's plan, he might be playing it a little too clever for his own good. 

I think I'd prefer f!Aegon as king over that scenario. 

As someone familiar with ASOIAF book fandom, I think Tyrion being Hand to the endgame ruler, Sansa ruling the North, Arya going wandering, Dany going full tyrant and dying as a result, and even Jon going back to the wildlings or taking the black again would not shock anyone. Those possibilities have been discussed for years. And among the show-only watchers, I think of those outcomes, only Jon rejoining the wildlings would be a complete surprise. My partner is a casual viewer with no interest in the books and they were completely unsurprised by Dany’s dark turn and had even predicted it, as have many casual viewers. 

Bran ending up king would be truly shocking for all but a handful of fans, though, even in the book fandom where pretty much every theory imaginable has been exhaustively discussed. It will be a real surprise.

On another note, I think a lot of caution and skepticism is warranted for any "leaks" now popping up about 8x05 and 8x06. There was absolutely nothing for months, and now that it's clear after 8x04 where things are going, fleakers are anxious to put their two cents in. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Eyes High

[Stallion12]

5 hours ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

If GRR Martin changes his long planned ending, just because the Dany stans don't like it, I will lose a lot of respect that I have for him as a writer. But that won't happen anyway, because he will never write book 7.

Again this assumes the horrible ending is correct. He's even said fans guessed the ending correctly. I don't remember anyone guessing king bran.

[loki567]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

As someone familiar with ASOIAF book fandom, I think Tyrion being Hand to the endgame ruler, Sansa ruling the North, Arya going wandering, Dany going full tyrant and dying as a result, and even Jon going back to the wildlings or taking the black again would not shock anyone. Those possibilities have been discussed for years. And among the show-only watchers, I think of those outcomes, only Jon rejoining the wildlings would be a complete surprise. My partner is a casual viewer with no interest in the books and they were completely unsurprised by Dany’s dark turn and had even predicted it. 

Bran ending up king would be truly shocking for all but a handful of fans, though, even in the book fandom where pretty much every theory imaginable has been exhaustively discussed. It will be a real surprise.

You could make Hot Pie the king. That would be a surprise. Doesn't mean it's plausible. 

Bran doesn't have a claim, a desire to be king, or any connection to the Southern side of the story since book two. I mean hell, how are they even going to get Bran down there in the last two episodes? 

If the rumor is true and GRRM/D&D were looking for a slightly outside-the-box king, I wish they would have just gone Gendry. 

[merrick715]

19 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

Again this assumes the horrible ending is correct. He's even said fans guessed the ending correctly. I don't remember anyone guessing king bran.

Some book fans have theorized that Bran ends up being the King

Edited May 11, 2019 by merrick715

[Eyes High]

11 minutes ago, loki567 said:

You could make Hot Pie the king. That would be a surprise. Doesn't mean it's plausible. 

Bran doesn't have a claim, a desire to be king, or any connection to the Southern side of the story since book two. I mean hell, how are they even going to get Bran down there in the last two episodes? 

If the rumor is true and GRRM/D&D were looking for a slightly outside-the-box king, I wish they would have just gone Gendry. 

Isaac filmed at Italica along with Sophie, Maisie, John Bradley, Peter, Liam, Lino, Joe, Gwendoline, and the others. Assuming the Bran council spoilers are wrong, it could be Bran doing an astral projection being there "in spirit"--there must always be a Stark in Winterfell, after all--but if Sansa, Robin and Brienne can make it to KL by the end of 8x06, there's no reason why Bran can't as well (and the way the writers are writing S8, the Starks breaking the "Stark in Winterfell" rule seems like no big deal).

...I do wonder who's supposed to be taking care of Winterfell if Bran, Sansa, Brienne, and Arya are in the south, though. Who's left, Maester Wolkan? When the Seville filming spoilers first came out last year, many fans assumed that Sansa, Bran and Arya were in the south because Winterfell had been destroyed by the NK and everyone had fled south, but Winterfell is just fine and presumably someone needs to be around to run things.

The other thing that bugs me about the Dragonpit information in light of what we now know is that in 8x04, it looks like Bronn will end up with Highgarden. One would assume therefore that if he were Lord of the Reach that he would be attending this council scene or Tyrion's trial or whatever it is along with the other lords and ladies of Westeros. As far as we know, however, Jerome Flynn wasn't in Seville. So what gives?

As for Gendry, Joe Dempsie amusingly but not incorrectly said in a recent interview that Gendry "isn't quite bright enough to rule," which coming from someone who knows the endgame almost sounds like a tacit admission that TV Jon (whom the writers clearly think is dumb as hell) won't rule either.

22 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

Again this assumes the horrible ending is correct. He's even said fans guessed the ending correctly. I don't remember anyone guessing king bran.

Peter Dinklage said that "a version" of what he had guessed for Tyrion's fate is what ends up happening. If the Bran thing is right, that probably means that Peter Dinklage guessed that Tyrion would be Hand to the endgame ruler, but didn't get the endgame ruler right.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

6 minutes ago, loki567 said:

Bran doesn't have a claim, a desire to be king, or any connection to the Southern side of the story since book two. I mean hell, how are they even going to get Bran down there in the last two episodes? 

If the rumor is true and GRRM/D&D were looking for a slightly outside-the-box king, I wish they would have just gone Gendry. 

Bran will come down for the postwar conference, same as Sansa.

The endgame ruler is one of the things D&D have known right from the beginning, so that's not going to be their own invention.  It's something that I've absolutely read meta about in the fandom, though it was certainly not the most popular theory, since Bran's prong of the story has struggled as far as pacing goes.

[merrick715]

5 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

As for Gendry, Joe Dempsie amusingly but not incorrectly said in a recent interview that Gendry "isn't quite bright enough to rule," which coming from someone who knows the endgame almost sounds like a tacit admission that TV Jon (whom the writers clearly think is dumb as hell) won't rule either.

21 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

That makes me think Edric Storm will end up being the ruler of Storm's End.  The show transferred a decent amount of book Edric's storyline to Gendry. In the books, Robert actually recognizes that Edric is his bastard son, which means Edric received a similar education as Jon.

[Stallion12]

17 minutes ago, merrick715 said:

Some book fans have theorized that Bran ends up being the King

Years ago when he said that?

[Eyes High]

31 minutes ago, merrick715 said:

That makes me think Edric Storm will end up being the ruler of Storm's End.  The show transferred a decent amount of book Edric's storyline to Gendry. In the books, Robert actually recognizes that Edric is his bastard son, which means Edric received a similar education as Jon.

I agree. Gendry is woefully unprepared to be a lord, as the Chrys Watches GOT recap pointed out (maybe Davos can teach him how to read, at least), and TV Gendry has always been an Edric/Gendry composite character. In the books, Edric Storm is safely tucked away in Essos, which seems like a possible setup for him to return at the end of ASOIAF to be legitimized and continue House Baratheon. Book Gendry is ignorant of his birth and seems likely to marry Willow Heddle as one character (Hyle Hunt?) predicts in AFFC.

That weird 8x04 scene where Tyrion promises Bronn Highgarden seems to me like a strong indication that Tyrion's going to survive and end up in a position of considerable power. Bronn has bowed out of the KL battle, meaning he's pretty much guaranteed to survive to the end, and he has threatened to kill Tyrion unless he obtains Highgarden for him. What would be the point of that scene unless Tyrion is in a position to deliver on that promise? If he's tossed in prison for treason and executed, it hardly matters. And if he can't deliver on that promise, then Bronn will kill him, and that doesn't seem like a likely end for the character (particularly since GRRM probably has no idea what to do with Bronn). So Tyrion is likely going to be running shit by the end of the show, whether it's as Bran's Hand or as something else, since he will be sufficiently powerful to deliver on his promise to Bronn (or else die). He has been set up to have at least one extremely powerful ally in Bronn, since Tyrion and Bronn always got on very well as long as Bronn was being paid. (Bronn even guilted Jaime into visiting Tyrion while he was imprisoned in Season 4, which is probably the closest thing to genuine feeling he has ever shown.)

We are going to see Highgarden in exterior shots if WOTW is to be believed, so this Highgarden thing is definitely being addressed in 8x06.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Eyes High

[Affogato]

30 minutes ago, loki567 said:

You could make Hot Pie the king. That would be a surprise. Doesn't mean it's plausible. 

Bran doesn't have a claim, a desire to be king, or any connection to the Southern side of the story since book two. I mean hell, how are they even going to get Bran down there in the last two episodes? 

If the rumor is true and GRRM/D&D were looking for a slightly outside-the-box king, I wish they would have just gone Gendry. 

Not paying attention to history means you will repeat it? If Bran is the keeper of history  his seat on the iron throne takes on a symbolic meaning that Gendry would not. 

They really arent working towards this, though. I mean coherently. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Affogato

[MrsR]

Well, Bran is Jon's heir.

It's going to be Jon who wins the throne only to abdicate.

Next up, Bran.

Nothing is going get by Bran. No amount of scheming and backstabbing will work around Bran.

And he'll live a long time.

Edited May 11, 2019 by MrsR

[Stallion12]

And the franchise will die, and Martin would dodge the pitch forks. He hasn't done anything for people to accept it. He's also extremely hated, if this was the endgame, they had to build towards it. It's not bittersweet it's just bitter.  Better they just have a council of equals with all the surviving characters on it.

[merrick715]

27 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

That weird 8x04 scene where Tyrion promises Bronn Highgarden seems to me like a strong indication that Tyrion's going to survive and end up in a position of considerable power.

I think Tyrion will end-up, in a place of power but Bronn won't get a reward. Bronn is barely a supporting character in the books, but his role on the show has expanded. Since the show cut out Willas and Garlan Tyrell, and Bronn is a fairly popular character, the show had Tyrion promise Bronn Highgarden.

Quote

And the franchise will die, and Martin would dodge the pitch forks. He hasn't done anything for people to accept it. He's also extremely hated, if this was the endgame, they had to build towards it. It's not bittersweet it's just bitter.  Better they just have a council of equals with all the surviving characters on it.

Why should Martin dodge the pitchforks? The endgames of the major characters on the show will be the same as Martin's ending. I think the only difference between the show and the book is Martin will spend more time on the journey the characters will go through, so it doesn't feel rushed as it does on the show.

Edited May 11, 2019 by merrick715

[Leila6]

11 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Nothing is going get by Bran. No amount of scheming and backstabbing will work around Bran.

In theory, that’s correct and it might work better in the books. But in the show, Bran has been weirdly withholding of information and just seems to spend his days flying around in ravens for little apparent reason.

I also hate the answer of a god-king, despite its antecedents in fantasy and sci-fi, because it’s a cop out for humanity. I didn’t peg GRRM as endorsing that kind of idea.

[Raachel2008]

9 hours ago, rmontro said:

It's only bitter for Daenerys.  Jon will at least get to spend his days with his direwolf and brothers/friends.

Looks like things turn out okay if your name is Stark.

Tyrion's ending is bittersweet.  He gets to live but has lost his family.

I’m sorry but how Jon’s ending is not bitter? He has to live knowing he killed the woman he loves; and depending on which (f)leak fully aware that maybe they were all played. Guilty doesn’t even start to cover it and if you think that Jon wouldn’t feel remotely devastated by that then you are not paying attention. Also, does anyone really believe the Starks are going to spend their days together? Never mind Arya leaving, it is clear that they won’t be anywhere close each other when all is done.

I hate how every single character minus Sansa was/is being destroyed for this ending. I’m on board with everyone saying that this would not be a bad ending if there had been character development and all. But as it is they made people dumb on purpose and that is just criminal.

[SeanC]

38 minutes ago, merrick715 said:

I think Tyrion will end-up, in a place of power but Bronn won't get a reward. Bronn is barely a supporting character in the books, but his role on the show has expanded. Since the show cut out Willas and Garlan Tyrell, and Bronn is a fairly popular character, the show had Tyrion promise Bronn Highgarden.

Book Bronn has established himself as Lord Protector of Stokeworth.  I expect he'll end the books a well-off lord, but not with anything nearly so big as Highgarden.

29 minutes ago, Leila6 said:

In theory, that’s correct and it might work better in the books. But in the show, Bran has been weirdly withholding of information and just seems to spend his days flying around in ravens for little apparent reason.

While TV Bran tends to come across as useless, he seems to do just enough to make sure things work out the way he wants them to.

[screamin]

56 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

We are going to see Highgarden in exterior shots if WOTW is to be believed, so this Highgarden thing is definitely being addressed in 8x06.

Honestly, if Bronn really ends up getting to rule Highgarden and its huge population of "peasants who do what they're told" (as he remarked approvingly) because of a promise he extorted with a death threat, but was too cowardly to back up by fighting for the side that was to keep that promise, I will be SO pissed. The Queen of Thorns' people deserve better than that craven asshole.

[Stallion12]

1 hour ago, merrick715 said:

I think Tyrion will end-up, in a place of power but Bronn won't get a reward. Bronn is barely a supporting character in the books, but his role on the show has expanded. Since the show cut out Willas and Garlan Tyrell, and Bronn is a fairly popular character, the show had Tyrion promise Bronn Highgarden.

Why should Martin dodge the pitchforks? The endgames of the major characters on the show will be the same as Martin's ending. I think the only difference between the show and the book is Martin will spend more time on the journey the characters will go through, so it doesn't feel rushed as it does on the show.

Because it's not going to go over well, and he will get backlash, it'll be d@d s fault, but the fans will be pissed if the rumored ending is true, it's just bitter, not bittersweet. They will blame Martin. This of course, assumes the rumors are true. Martin has said he doesn't want an ending that pissed everyone off, and this ending will do that. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Stallion12