S34.E14: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished / S34.E15: Reunion

[Runningwild]

I live in the Tampa area. Grew up here. Doesn't bother me. It's usually someone I am happy to see. Or someone I am pretending I am happy to see. 

11 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't really dislike Brad and I call it like I see it.  As I said, I give him the benefit of the doubt as to his intention, but he was dumb to pick him up like that.  Bad optic.

What you just posted supports Michaela's Youtube account.  She said that she hadn't told her alliance about her plans to keep Brad around a while for the fish.  She wanted him to go fishing first, then she would make the case to Cirie and crew to keep her fish ticket around a bit longer.  

Except we saw her interact with Brad. That supports what she told her tribe mates. She said it a couple different ways and it sounded the same every time. 

I'm not usually much of a hugger but I've been small all my life and I'm used to the occasional person picking me up in a bear hug. 

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

I live in the Tampa area. Grew up here. Doesn't bother me. It's usually someone I am happy to see. Or someone I am pretending I am happy to see. 

Except we saw her interact with Brad. That supports what she told her tribe mates. She said it a couple different ways and it sounded the same every time. 

I'm not usually much of a hugger but I've been small all my life and I'm used to the occasional person picking me up in a bear hug. 

She wasn't telling Brad or her tribemates what she was up to.  On Youtube she said she was afraid Brad would go running to Sarah (I think it was Sarah) if she came out and told him she was trying to keep him in the game, but she needed him to stop idol hunting and fish to make it happen.   Everything you have posted is consistent with her Youtube version.

Did any of those times you were lifted in the air by a bear hugger, come immediately after the bear hugger apologized for treating you like a child? :) Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with a bear hug or lifting, but in the context of the situation it was a faux pas.   

[enoughcats]

If Brad had done a shoulder over Tai hug, wouldn't that have put Tai's nose in Brad's armpit?  

Tai is definitely a two arm, whole body involved hugger.  One arm around him would probably get a full hug, regardless of who initiated it.  And Tai is a kisser.  Not a 'social' two inches from the face cheek peck.  I expect Tai's feeling would be hurt if his affections were rebuffed, because is seems for him that they are a part of him, naturally evolved from the life he's lead and survived.

[Runningwild]

38 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

She wasn't telling Brad or her tribemates what she was up to.  On Youtube she said she was afraid Brad would go running to Sarah (I think it was Sarah) if she came out and told him she was trying to keep him in the game, but she needed him to stop idol hunting and fish to make it happen.   Everything you have posted is consistent with her Youtube version.

Did any of those times you were lifted in the air by a bear hugger, come immediately after the bear hugger apologized for treating you like a child? :) Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with a bear hug or lifting, but in the context of the situation it was a faux pas.   

Why would she even have a YouTube version of her!? It wouldn't be necessary if she  didn't think she needed to fix her reputation. I don't care what she said on YouTube. I saw what I saw. As did everyone else. If you want to believe her YouTube story months later after the fact, that's your prerogative. 

 Thai enjoyed hugging and kissing other men. I'm sure he didn't mind filling Brad's torso against his. I doubt there's anything Brad could do that wouldn't offend you.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

Why would she even have a YouTube version of her!? It wouldn't be necessary if she  didn't think she needed to fix her reputation. I don't care what she said on YouTube. I saw what I saw. As did everyone else. If you want to believe her YouTube story months later after the fact, that's your prerogative. 

 Thai enjoyed hugging and kissing other men. I'm sure he didn't mind filling Brad's torso against his. I doubt there's anything Brad could do that wouldn't offend you.

Why wouldn't she have a Youtube channel?  Many of the players are very active in various forms of social media, including Youtube.  It gives them a chance to get more of the story out there, and explain why they did the things they did.  They spend over 900 hours on the island and a little less than 10 hours of it gets aired.  

I find it hilarious that you think Michaela's reputation was harmed by her "blackmailing" Culpepper by saying "Go fish."   Oh, the scandal!  Varner x1000!!! :)

[MissEwa]

54 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

Thai enjoyed hugging and kissing other men. I'm sure he didn't mind filling Brad's torso against his.

Huh? I am a straight woman and quite affectionate and yet if a man I wasn't really *really* close to lifted me off the ground into a hug you can be sure I would mind. 

Brad's apology came off an insincere - like he'd seen how he came off on TV and wanted to do damage control. The pick-up hug was a power move over someone smaller and weaker than him, in a situation where it's impossible for that person to object. 

[cooksdelight]

28 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

Huh? I am a straight woman and quite affectionate and yet if a man I wasn't really *really* close to lifted me off the ground into a hug you can be sure I would mind. 

Brad's apology came off an insincere - like he'd seen how he came off on TV and wanted to do damage control. The pick-up hug was a power move over someone smaller and weaker than him, in a situation where it's impossible for that person to object. 

Totally agree. Which is probably why Brad had his head down through most of the reunion. He's not happy with how he came off on international TV.

[simplyme]

I think people with different views on Michaela and Brad can debate until they're blue in the face (or their fingers fall off). I think this is one of those cases where folks just have to agree to disagree. I'd hate to see anyone losing fingers over Survivor without even playing it. :P

As for Brad picking up Tai when he hugged him, I do think he sincerely felt crappy after watching himself. I don't think he was intentionally trying to pull a power move.  I do think Brad is clueless about how condescending or disrespectful he can come across to others without realizing it. @Winston9-DT3 described the general societal rules really well, IMO. None of this makes Brad an evil person. It means he's socially unaware in certain situations... which is probably true of most people, but what those situations are vary based on their life experiences. So I'm certainly not going to get out the pitchfork and torches for the guy because of that hug when I felt he was trying to apologize, but man, it honestly made me wince in sympathy for both of them. 

[MissEwa]

38 minutes ago, simplyme said:

As for Brad picking up Tai when he hugged him, I do think he sincerely felt crappy after watching himself. I don't think he was intentionally trying to pull a power move.  I do think Brad is clueless about how condescending or disrespectful he can come across to others without realizing it.

I don't think it was necessarily intentional - I think that's kinda how Brad relates to people. 

I guess I just don't have a lot of time for these performative apologies. If Brad felt bad for how he treated Tai, he's had nearly a year to apologise, sincerely, off-screen - and Tai *told* him at FTC how he felt, so it's not like he had to watch it back on TV to know. I'd have understood it a bit more if Jeff had forced them into it, like he tends to do, but Brad jumped up and did it umprompted, and it just felt showy and fake. 

[Nalan]

All right.  I watched the finale two days ago, but still haven't said my own piece.

I enjoyed all three challenges in the finale.  The first one felt like a brand-new one to me, while the second and third ones were the ones won by Keith and Jaclyn in San Juan Del Sur.  I was shocked Brad did so well with the second one, especially considering he didn't get the same advantage for it that Keith did.  But yeah, I agree with the sentiment that it was boring that he pretty much just won all three of them.

While it was sad to see Cirie go out the way she did . . . I'm honestly not that sympathetic.  She got the ball rolling for her own ouster when she screwed Andrea over and then tried to screw Sarah over with her steal-a-vote advantage.  And I'm not upset at the show for all of the idols and advantages.  They had no way of knowing that Tai would hoard both of his till close to the end of the game, or that Troyzan would also hold on to his.

Oh, and I just have to vent about this since I'm surprised that no one else has.  It just disgusts me that such a female-heavy post-merge game turned into a completely male-heavy endgame just from their alliance imploding.  And what's worse is that Cirie, whom I love, is the one to thank for said implosion by turning on Andrea at least one Tribal Council too soon.  Damn it, Cirie!

I actually think that Tai screwed himself over by not going along with Aubry's plan at F5.  If Troyzan had gone, Brad has no goat, and it's easy to just get rid of Aubry at F4.

Brad definitely killed his chances of winning when he booted Tai for the reasons he did.  But he obviously thought that he was the runaway winner if he took Sarah and Troyzan to the end.

I did quite like the new jury format, as well.  You get a feel for whom everyone on the jury is feeling (Sarah for most of the women and Zeke, Brad for Ozzy and Debbie) and whom they aren't (Troyzan only getting one question).  By the end of it, it was clear that it was going to come down to Brad and Sarah.  I think Sarah had a feeling, though, that she'd won.  She barely even reacted all that much when Probst announced her win, while Brad looked so morbid.  And yes, I noticed how the audience had reacted to each of them getting votes.  Lukewarm reactions, at best, for Brad getting votes, but they went completely wild every time Sarah got one.

So Sarah won, and I'm happy!  She really did play a good game, if not a great one, and earned the victory.  I wish she'd gotten a unanimous vote, but with someone like Ozzy, who values the physical game over any other (showing that he still has no damn clue as to how to play the game), Debbie being so bitter, and Sierra just wanting to be loyal to Brad, that wasn't happening.  Still, such a gap between their votes was amazing!

I am definitely interested in this Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers season.  At least it's all newbies, if nothing else.  And oh, my God!  Finally!  After two seasons without them, there is finally a beautiful black man on the show again!  Millennials vs. Generation X only had black women -- CeCe and Michaela -- and Game Changers only did, as well -- Cirie and Michaela.  Finally!  Another black dude will be around!  Wonder what his name is?

Good finale.  Good, good finale.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Nalan

[fishcakes]

36 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

I guess I just don't have a lot of time for these performative apologies. If Brad felt bad for how he treated Tai, he's had nearly a year to apologise, sincerely, off-screen - and Tai *told* him at FTC how he felt, so it's not like he had to watch it back on TV to know. I'd have understood it a bit more if Jeff had forced them into it, like he tends to do, but Brad jumped up and did it umprompted, and it just felt showy and fake. 

When Sarah was in the audience with her family after the votes were read, there was a quick shot of the stage and Brad was hugging and lifting Tai. So I'm guessing he apologized then for the first time, and also did it again when Jeff started interviewing him. So I don't know if that makes the apologies seem less fake, because he initially did it not (necessarily) for the cameras, or more fake, because he did it a second time in a way guaranteed to ensure that everyone knew he did it, but there's probably a good case for either option.

Oh, and @peachmangosteen, you have to watch that second hug again because I just noticed that Troy is making the most hilarious face. He's seated in between the two of them so when the hug happens it's right in front of him and after Brad sets Tai down, Troy is seen throwing up his hands and nervously laughing and making a "waaaat is even happening right now?" face. Honest to God, I wish I had a set of emojis based on little pictures of Troy reacting to things.

[Runningwild]

5 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Why wouldn't she have a Youtube channel?  Many of the players are very active in various forms of social media, including Youtube.  It gives them a chance to get more of the story out there, and explain why they did the things they did.  They spend over 900 hours on the island and a little less than 10 hours of it gets aired.  

I find it hilarious that you think Michaela's reputation was harmed by her "blackmailing" Culpepper by saying "Go fish."   Oh, the scandal!  Varner x1000!!! :)

 Why would she have a YouTube channel?  Because she apparently needs to get the "real story" out there.  Apparently she thinks her reputation was damaged enough that it is required. 

Yes I know they spent a lot of time on the island and hardly any of it is there. If you would read Brad's interviews you'll find out there was a lot of his discussion with Tai that was left out of the edit. It happens. 

I like who I like and I dislike who I dislike. 

[hyukx3]

Every time I see the final tribal, I picture myself as one of the final 3 and think I can give better answers.

Anyway, about Ozzy. He thinks Survivor is a game where you win the money by winning challenges. The main meat of Survivor is not the challenges, it's about voting and tribal council. I've read some Sarah interviews and she said Ozzy lives in his own little world. So true.

About Jeff. When he said the outplay part is about building camp and winning challenges, he missed out one important aspect of Survivor. Trying to outplay when you don't have immunity, which goes back to my previous point. Maybe that's outwit, but if you outwitted someone, then you outplayed them too is how I feel about it. I don't know if they switch the final tribal council to an open discussion format and diced it into components of outwit, outplay, outlast to stamped out bitter jury votes, but you can't fixed people like Ozzy, how they see the world with their stupid eyes.

About Debbie. She said Sarah lied to everybody and she doesn't respect her game or her as a person. But when Debbie is in the game, she has no problem lying to people. She's such a hypocrite. Such a stupid eccentric dumbass. What's worse is she's smart enough to know lying is part of Survivor. Even Jeff said so during the final episode. Deceit is part of the game. The game show host said so himself. After 30+ seasons, we still got stupid contestants like this. So Debbie is smart enough to know this, but when she's voted out, she turned 180 and thinks whoever lied their way to the final is shit. No, fuck you Debbie, you're shit.

[Nashville]

15 hours ago, Drogo said:

"50 Shades of Tan."      -Khaleesi

Four words kept going through my head every time I saw this iteration of Sierra:  "Poor man's Sandra Bullock".

On the plus side, at least Sierra dropped the Bo Derek/"10" cornrows she'd worn in (I believe) the previous TC.  Definitely a hair-don't.

[MissEwa]

16 hours ago, Drogo said:

"50 Shades of Tan."      -Khaleesi

My favourite thing about this image is how Sierra and Zeke's legs shrink down into teeny little stumps. I *know* it's the angle but it makes me laugh to imagine them walking around on their stubby little legs. 

[marsdude89]

47 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Four words kept going through my head every time I saw this iteration of Sierra:  "Poor man's Sandra Bullock".

On the plus side, at least Sierra dropped the Bo Derek/"10" cornrows she'd worn in (I believe) the previous TC.  Definitely a hair-don't.

I assumed Cirie did the cornrows for her. Bit of an interesting look... In general, Sierra always looks so severe when she shows up on the jury, I find. All that makeup, I guess. I recently rewatched Worlds Apart and remarked to my girlfriend when Sierra first appeared on the jury, "I can barely see her eyes with all that eyeshadow."

[Guest]

13 hours ago, fishcakes said:

When Sarah was in the audience with her family after the votes were read, there was a quick shot of the stage and Brad was hugging and lifting Tai. So I'm guessing he apologized then for the first time, and also did it again when Jeff started interviewing him. So I don't know if that makes the apologies seem less fake, because he initially did it not (necessarily) for the cameras, or more fake, because he did it a second time in a way guaranteed to ensure that everyone knew he did it, but there's probably a good case for either option.

Oh, and @peachmangosteen, you have to watch that second hug again because I just noticed that Troy is making the most hilarious face. He's seated in between the two of them so when the hug happens it's right in front of him and after Brad sets Tai down, Troy is seen throwing up his hands and nervously laughing and making a "waaaat is even happening right now?" face. Honest to God, I wish I had a set of emojis based on little pictures of Troy reacting to things.

To me, Brad doing a second hug/lift, strictly for the cameras, makes it more fake.  But his whole presence seemed 100% fake to me.  Maybe 98% because what was odd was you could see on his face and in his body language the entire time that he knew he'd made an ass of himself.  And the outfit just amplified it.  It was a strange mix of try-hard and given-up.

What I noticed about the hug/lift was that Tai's legs go to encircle Brad but he catches himself and stops about halfway (thank god).  I would've preferred Tai drop his arms and slide off as a signal of his realizing once again Brad, in mid-apology, is condescending to him.  But, no, instead he goes for the opposite-- the leg hug.  Never a good look.  Tai reminds me of a puppy that a mean kid kicks and abuses but as soon as the kid shows an iota of warmth, the puppy leaps in his arms and licks his face.  

Edited May 27, 2017 by Guest

[fishcakes]

Ha, I noticed Tai did that with his leg on both hugs. I don't think he was getting grindy; I think he was trying to anchor himself a little better because otherwise Brad would have crushed the life out of him to hold him up while his legs just dangled there.

Quote

I would've preferred Tai drop his arms and slide off as a signal of his realizing once again Brad, in mid-apology, is condescending to him.  But, no, instead he goes for the opposite-- the leg hug.  Never a good look.  Tai reminds me of a puppy that a mean kid kicks and abuses but as soon as the kid shows an iota of warmth, the puppy leaps in his arms and licks his face.

I too would have liked it if he'd not validated Brad to that extent, but in Tai's defense, it's hard to extricate yourself from a bear hug. I had a boyfriend who would pick me up during hugs, which I didn't really mind except when he wouldn't put me down immediately. I'd try to get loose but couldn't, and it was kind of scary even though I knew he didn't mean me any harm. Just that reminder that there are people who can physically overwhelm you if they want to is not a good feeling.

Edited May 27, 2017 by fishcakes

[needschocolate]

I tend to erase the details of most seasons about a week after the reunion, so perhaps someone else can confirm if this is true - Brad is the only survivor player to look more than 10 years older at the reunion than he did on the island.

9 hours ago, hyukx3 said:

About Jeff. When he said the outplay part is about building camp and winning challenges, he missed out one important aspect of Survivor. Trying to outplay when you don't have immunity, which goes back to my previous point. Maybe that's outwit, but if you outwitted someone, then you outplayed them too is how I feel about it. I don't know if they switch the final tribal council to an open discussion format and diced it into components of outwit, outplay, outlast to stamped out bitter jury votes, but you can't fixed people like Ozzy, how they see the world with their stupid eyes.

My gut feeling is that the whole "outwit, outplay, outlast" was just a catchy marketing phrase and they are now trying to assign definitions to each word.  However, the definitions overlap and the words don't necessarily cover everything.  

15 hours ago, simplyme said:

I think people with different views on Michaela and Brad can debate until they're blue in the face (or their fingers fall off). I think this is one of those cases where folks just have to agree to disagree. I'd hate to see anyone losing fingers over Survivor without even playing it. :P

As for Brad picking up Tai when he hugged him, I do think he sincerely felt crappy after watching himself. I don't think he was intentionally trying to pull a power move.  I do think Brad is clueless about how condescending or disrespectful he can come across to others without realizing it. @Winston9-DT3 described the general societal rules really well, IMO. None of this makes Brad an evil person. It means he's socially unaware in certain situations... which is probably true of most people, but what those situations are vary based on their life experiences. So I'm certainly not going to get out the pitchfork and torches for the guy because of that hug when I felt he was trying to apologize, but man, it honestly made me wince in sympathy for both of them. 

It would be difficult to be on Survivor, not only because of the challenges, the starvation, the dehydration, the weather, the lack of sleep, the annoying tribe-mates, and the bugs, but you would also have to make sure that you never do and say anything that could make you look bad once the show is edited.  If you do look bad, then you need to go on social media or give interviews so you can tell the world how it really happened or how you want them to think it happened.  

[piewarmer]

On 5/25/2017 at 2:28 AM, Nashville said:

Was it just me, or did anybody else think when Aubry made her first Jury appearance she looked absolutely smoking hawt...?  :)

The jury was so distractingly glam this time - at one point I wondered if I was watching a Whitesnake video, wind machines and all.

[MissEwa]

9 hours ago, needschocolate said:

My gut feeling is that the whole "outwit, outplay, outlast" was just a catchy marketing phrase and they are now trying to assign definitions to each word.  However, the definitions overlap and the words don't necessarily cover everything.    

This is how I feel too. I know they're the supposed cornerstones of the game but they're really just meaningless words. Outwit is a little bit specific, but outplay could refer to any element of gameplay, and outlast is... what happens when you outwit and outplay. I go back and forth on this FTC format but dividing it into those three categories made bits of it repetitive and missed some things all together. 

[simplyme]

5 hours ago, MissEwa said:

This is how I feel too. I know they're the supposed cornerstones of the game but they're really just meaningless words. Outwit is a little bit specific, but outplay could refer to any element of gameplay, and outlast is... what happens when you outwit and outplay. I go back and forth on this FTC format but dividing it into those three categories made bits of it repetitive and missed some things all together. 

I agree with this. I like the new FTC format but wish they wouldn't try to fit the format to three marketing words they made up eons ago. I'd prefer if they did something like looked at social, physical, and mental as the three dominant facets of play if they need a structure for the jury discussion.

[SVNBob]

2 hours ago, simplyme said:

I'd prefer if they did something like looked at social, physical, and mental as the three dominant facets of play if they need a structure for the jury discussion.

That's kinda what they were trying to do with their catchphrase words.  It's just that there's only one exact correlation.  "Outwit" is definitely linked to the mental game.  It was trying to shoehorn social and physical into Outplay and Outlast that made it clunky.

[MissEwa]

Outwit is definitely strategy/social. Outplay could be challenges, but it could also be strategy. My problem (and I fully admit I think this is just my brain) is that I never read 'outwit, outplay, outlast' as A, B, C but as A + B = C, like a niftier, more logo-friendly way of saying 'if you outwit and outplay, you'll outlast', so seeing people be asked what they did to outlast always seems weird. 

I can't remember but I feel like using these words to define good gameplay has only started happening relatively recently? Like I don't remember it coming up as much in earlier seasons - there's often a 'well, xx won because they outwit, outplayed and outlasted' throwaway in an interview but it's gone to a new level the past few seasons (and in this FTC especially). 

[needschocolate]

2 hours ago, MissEwa said:

My problem (and I fully admit I think this is just my brain) is that I never read 'outwit, outplay, outlast' as A, B, C but as A + B = C, like a niftier, more logo-friendly way of saying 'if you outwit and outplay, you'll outlast', so seeing people be asked what they did to outlast always seems weird. 

I agree - your interpretation is the way I looked at it too (great brains think alike?).

However, even this isn't universally true - or at least, it isn't necessarily true in the inverse.  While players who outwit and outplay will outlast, not everyone - *cough...Troyzan...cough* - who outlasts has outwitted or outplayed.  There is usually one who was dragged/carried to the end because they won't get votes.   And they often think that they have a chance to win, because they "must have done something right to make it to the end" and it usually dawns on them during the FTC that they were the goat.  

Except for Russell Hantz, who I don't think ever figured out that he was the goat.   

[Rockfish]

On 2017-05-25 at 11:13 AM, dolphincorn said:

More like a phys-ed teacher who has to teach one period of science a day because of budget cuts. I think I was in his class in 1979. He was also a Mormon.

I'm getting caught up on the thread (slowly), but it would be wrong of me not to say, "Spot on!" Best description ever, lol. He also drove a station wagon with spilled Cheerios everywhere.

[simplyme]

11 hours ago, SVNBob said:

That's kinda what they were trying to do with their catchphrase words.  It's just that there's only one exact correlation.  "Outwit" is definitely linked to the mental game.  It was trying to shoehorn social and physical into Outplay and Outlast that made it clunky.

Pretty much. :) And @MissEwa summed up my thoughts pretty well with:

8 hours ago, MissEwa said:

Outwit is definitely strategy/social. Outplay could be challenges, but it could also be strategy. My problem (and I fully admit I think this is just my brain) is that I never read 'outwit, outplay, outlast' as A, B, C but as A + B = C, like a niftier, more logo-friendly way of saying 'if you outwit and outplay, you'll outlast', so seeing people be asked what they did to outlast always seems weird. 

So I wish they'd just stop with the marketing words and go for what they're actually trying to analyze.

And then we can all hop on our maaaaaagical ponies and ride away up the rainbow together...

[MissEwa]

On the other hand, as meaningless as the whole 'outwit, outplay, outlast' break-up of FTC is, it doesn't leave a lot of room for 'I'm doing this for Monica/my six kids/fertility treatments/my mom/my fourteen cats' sob stories, so maybe I *do* like it. 

[Hanahope]

I guess one nice thing about the 'roundtable' forum method at FTC is that those people that would go first in asking their questions, now get a chance to respond to later questions/remarks.  I appreciated that someone did finally address Troyzan and at least gave him the opportunity to make his case.  Then Troy at the end, seeing that he had no chance to win, at least was appreciative of his time out there.

I didn't care much for Tai's game play this season, and his wishy-washiness never sat well with me.  But man if I didn't feel so uncomfortable the way Brad just lit into him about the idols.  I have a feeling that if Brad had handled that differently, he might have gotten an idol and a vote (if Tai did still end up on the jury).  But Brad's overbearing attitude played through.

And while I do respect Brad's obvious smarts in those puzzles, clearly being a professional athelete helped him through the physical part of the challenges so that he wasn't as worn out (physically and mentally) when he got to those challenges.  Plus, his physicallity helped him (and his team) win quite a few reward challenges where he got to eat semi-regularly (certainly more than other contestants).  So yeah, I'm all for Sarah bringing that up at tribal to deflect the "he won five immunities" argument.

Honestly, when you have a tribal where everyone but one person (whom no one voted for) is playing some immunity idol, so that one person goes home, you have too many immunity idols.

I liked that Sarah did change up her game, didn't play as "goodie two shoes" as she did her first time.  Sometimes you have to do that to win, but you also need to do so in such a way that you don't alienate the other players (like Brad did).

I don't think the Survivor reunion was the place to hawk your book Varner.

I do hope we see again Malcolm, Michaela, Zeke, Sierra and Ciera.  I'm good if we never see Varner, Tony, JT, Brad, Troy, Ozzy, Tai again. They are all pretty much one-note players.  I guess we can see Caleb again, since both times he's played, he went out so early that he's really made no impact one way or the other.  Sandra's a bit one-note too, but she's more entertaining that the others.

I think Cirie is done, this season seemed to take a lot out of her.   Andrea did better I hear, but here she is at 100 days played and I have no memory of her first two times.  That means she's not very memorable.  I definitely agree that Cirie blew it by voting out Andrea and not taking the opportunity to vote out Brad when they had the chance (coz they never did again).

[Nashville]

3 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I didn't care much for Tai's game play this season, and his wishy-washiness never sat well with me.  But man if I didn't feel so uncomfortable the way Brad just lit into him about the idols.  I have a feeling that if Brad had handled that differently, he might have gotten an idol and a vote (if Tai did still end up on the jury).  But Brad's overbearing attitude played through.

Personally, I never did understand the basis on which Brad thought his ultimatum to Tai should work.  It just never made sense to me on either a logical or strategic basis.  What exactly was Tai supposed to be getting out of the arrangement that he didn't already have?

[ProfCrash]

http://my.xfinity.com/blogs/tv/2017/05/26/survivor-game-changers-castaway-cirie-sarah-gangsta-cop-suit/

"Holmes: Another big moment was Brad choosing Sarah over Tai. Based on what I’ve seen, which is only an hour of every three days, that seemed like a huge mistake. As someone who was out there, did you appreciate what a big threat Sarah was?
Fields: We did and we should give Brad a pass because Brad still could have won. The night that Aubry went home, we all talked. We knew that Brad would be thinking old-school style. He’s old-school…so am I…but that’s the thing, you have to evolve with the game. But we knew Brad would be thinking, “Everyone’s pissed at Sarah. Troyzan hasn’t really played. They’re going to be too angry to see the forest for the trees so they’re going to give it to me because everyone’s mad.” So, we all planned to give Sarah a dirty look so Brad would take Sarah. And he did, so that was his fatal flaw. This game was not about people’s feelings. It was almost like a professional poker game. You don’t care about how people feel. The only thing you care about is who made the better plays. As a group, that’s what we were looking at."

I am pretty sure this tells you how many people felt about Brad. They knew how he would see the jury and plotted to make sure that Sarah ended up in the final three so she would win and not Brad. So either they really liked Sarah and how she played and wanted to see her rewarded or they really did not like the idea of Brad winning during the game.

[Nalan]

7 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

So either they really liked Sarah and how she played and wanted to see her rewarded or they really did not like the idea of Brad winning during the game.

Um . . . or both.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 5/26/2017 at 2:40 PM, meep.meep said:

Tai in Survivor has always reminded me of what professional poker players say about playing with amateurs.  They screw up the pro's games because they do wildly unexpected things.  In Survivor, people think they have corralled Tai and they know what he will do, and then he does exactly the opposite.

Ah!  One of the reasons I love him. I love this post.  Thanks

[simplyme]

Quote

Tai in Survivor has always reminded me of what professional poker players say about playing with amateurs.  They screw up the pro's games because they do wildly unexpected things.  In Survivor, people think they have corralled Tai and they know what he will do, and then he does exactly the opposite.

Good catch, @Ms Blue Jay . I missed this.

In support of  @meep.meep's point, I offer the words of Mark Twain (1835-1910):

"There are some things that can beat smartness and foresight? Awkwardness and stupidity can. The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot."

I would argue that there's a difference between stupidity and ignorance, of course. You may be a brilliant person in many ways and yet be ignorant in how to use a sword. But the point stands that amateurs are scary because they're unpredictable.

[Daisy]

On 5/28/2017 at 4:21 PM, simplyme said:

Pretty much. :) And @MissEwa summed up my thoughts pretty well with:

So I wish they'd just stop with the marketing words and go for what they're actually trying to analyze.

And then we can all hop on our maaaaaagical ponies and ride away up the rainbow together...

I like how @MissEwa summed it up because that's how it was for me. but I think that's the beauty of this game. It can mean so many things. like as much as we want to get mad at Ozzy - there was a time (and there are a lot of people to this day) who do think if you dominate challenges (Outplay) that means more than OutWitting. 

And I think OutLast is what you always want to do - from day 1. You don't want to be the first bootoff and you don't mind being the goat because for some being 3rd is literally the best you can do, and who wants to do the double Francesa? hehe so I hope they never stop with the Out Wit, Out Play Out Last. (I think it's just up to the finalists to strongly define what it means for their game. it would be nice if JEFF acknowledged different ways to play though)

[Nashville]

On 6/7/2017 at 0:54 PM, simplyme said:

Good catch, @Ms Blue Jay . I missed this.

In support of  @meep.meep's point, I offer the words of Mark Twain (1835-1910):

"There are some things that can beat smartness and foresight? Awkwardness and stupidity can. The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot."

I would argue that there's a difference between stupidity and ignorance, of course. You may be a brilliant person in many ways and yet be ignorant in how to use a sword. But the point stands that amateurs are scary because they're unpredictable.

Same thing in chess; rank neophyte chess players who know little more than "the little horsie goes two straight and one over" can (and have) beat grandmasters.  That's because GMs are accustomed to opponents whose every move is strategically based.  They will look for that strategy, identify it, and plan their counterattack accordingly.  They can't help it.  Long, hard-fought experience has hammered into them that by the time you reach this rarefied strata of play, there IS no other way to play.

Which means when playing against an opponent who is more or less aimlessly pushing wood, the GMs will drive themselves insane looking for a deeper strategy which doesn't exist.