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  On 5/27/2021 at 3:14 AM, Umbelina said:

I thought that as well, it's been far too long since we've had that issue on the show, and for something that is supposed be pretty common?  That's too long.

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I agree that it's been too long since they've had the issue on the show. In fact, it's only been mentioned once or twice. So if it happens now, outside of Gilead to Serena, it wouldn't really be comeuppance. It would just be the writers throwing in a spoonful of Miracle Whip 3/4ths of the way through the fruit salad.

  On 5/27/2021 at 12:31 PM, LordOfLotion said:

I agree that it's been too long since they've had the issue on the show. In fact, it's only been mentioned once or twice. So if it happens now, outside of Gilead to Serena, it wouldn't really be comeuppance. It would just be the writers throwing in a spoonful of Miracle Whip 3/4ths of the way through the fruit salad.

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Except the truth of the times is that most babies are miscarried, or shredders, and that's IF the couple can even get pregnant.

Serena having a surviving healthy child would be the seriously strange thing to happen in this world.  

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It seems unlikely the child wont be healthy. 

1. Serena actually has decent medical care. If something is wrong with the baby, they'll find out early. 

2. There's little to no significant drama to Serena having a miscarriage/stillborn/severely handicapped child. Sure, Serena is as sad as a sociopath can be,  but its over and done. Whereas Serena's perfect child ripped from her arms? Thats *DRAMA*!

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  On 5/27/2021 at 10:48 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

It seems unlikely the child wont be healthy. 

1. Serena actually has decent medical care. If something is wrong with the baby, they'll find out early. 

2. There's little to no significant drama to Serena having a miscarriage/stillborn/severely handicapped child. Sure, Serena is as sad as a sociopath can be,  but its over and done. Whereas Serena's perfect child ripped from her arms? Thats *DRAMA*!

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Even if they find out early that something is wrong, what difference would that make? Serena wouldn’t have an abortion.

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  On 5/27/2021 at 10:59 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

I suppose my point is that while it would be sad for Serena if something was severely wrong, there's really no great drama in the Waterfords having a child with severe issues. They'd likely just reject it.

There is some drama in Serena needing to choose between her own life and the child's but that's a tricky topic even for this show.

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Oh I think it's a great topic for this show.  Tackle abortion!  They already have, by making any woman who had one that they could catch a handmaid.

Actually THIS is what makes the most sense to me going forward.  Serena helped make abortion a crime after all.

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  On 5/27/2021 at 10:48 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

Whereas Serena's perfect child ripped from her arms? Thats *DRAMA*!

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I can picture that. First we have Fred's trial. With Serena's help Fred is found guilty and sentenced (life w/o parole or death sentence, it makes no difference). Now he's out of the picture, just like Serena wanted. Then we get Serena's trial. Amazingly, it seems to be going well for her, even the witnesses (June et. al.) are worried that she will get off, or that she will get off with a light sentence.  Her lawyer tells her there is hope, they put forth a good case.

The jury is back, everyone files into the courtroom.  A juror looks at Serena with an almost imperceptible hint of a smile.  But Serena goes into labor right before her verdict is read. She is rushed to the hospital, she has a natural birth with all the pain, and the contractions, and the pushing, and the screaming. She gets a beautiful baby, she holds her, she kisses her, she's crying tears of joy (pun not intended), she's thanking her god for this miracle.

Then Tuello shows up. She was found guilty. Because of the crimes she has committed and because she now faces a long sentence (it would be great if it was life w/o parole), she has been declared an unfit mother. Her parental rights are terminated. Social Services is here to take the child. She has no friends or family in Canada and no one is going to send a baby girl back to Gilead.  Her child will be put up for adoption. Serena will never see her again. She will be raised by other people. The child will call them mom and dad. They will never take her to see Serena in jail. They will never send her letters or pictures. Serena will never know where her daughter is. She will not see her grow up. She will have lost her forever.

Cue flashforward a few years in the future. Serena is in jail and miserable. She is talking to her lawyer, asking, for the millionth time to try something, anything to get her some access. A picture, even from a distance, a word, the tiniest bit of information about her daughter. Her lawyer tells her all avenues are exhausted. Serena needs to accept her reality. The lawyer leaves, Serena goes back to her cell, which is now a run of the mill, regular cell. No special treatment for convicted criminals. Lights out, all prisoners must follow the same schedule, after all..

The next morning they find Serena hanging in her cell. Fade to black.

More than DRAMA, that is KARMA!!! Poetic justice, as they say.

 

Edited by WearyTraveler
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  On 5/27/2021 at 10:59 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

I suppose my point is that while it would be sad for Serena if something was severely wrong, there's really no great drama in the Waterfords having a child with severe issues. They'd likely just reject it.

There is some drama in Serena needing to choose between her own life and the child's but that's a tricky topic even for this show.

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Reject it, how?

  On 5/27/2021 at 10:48 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

It seems unlikely the child wont be healthy. 

1. Serena actually has decent medical care. If something is wrong with the baby, they'll find out early. 

2. There's little to no significant drama to Serena having a miscarriage/stillborn/severely handicapped child. Sure, Serena is as sad as a sociopath can be,  but its over and done. Whereas Serena's perfect child ripped from her arms? Thats *DRAMA*!

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I agree it will probably be healthy and her comeuppance will be having to hand over her baby to social services (or worse, Gilead, idk how citizenship would work under these circumstances). 

If it WAS unhealthy in a way that it was doomed and/or threatened the life of the mother she might get an abortion, and now that she has shown she can bear a child were she to be sent back to Gilead she would probably be a handmaid. Honestly, I wouldn't want to see that. I don't need SJ paying her karma in rape. I just want her to be in jail. A real one, not the cell that is nicer (like significantly nicer) than my apartment.

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  On 5/29/2021 at 3:22 PM, The Mighty Peanut said:

If it WAS unhealthy in a way that it was doomed and/or threatened the life of the mother she might get an abortion, and now that she has shown she can bear a child were she to be sent back to Gilead she would probably be a handmaid. Honestly, I wouldn't want to see that. I don't need SJ paying her karma in rape. I just want her to be in jail. A real one, not the cell that is nicer (like significantly nicer) than my apartment.

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I agree. I rather like the idea of her complaining bitterly about her treatment in regular jail and Agent Tuello smirking and pointing out that all she has to do is request to go back to Gilead as a woman who betrayed her husband and who had an abortion rather than birth a child. "I hope you like wearing red" as his parting shot as he leaves her cell. "Let me know when you want to go back."

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  On 5/28/2021 at 5:02 PM, mamadrama said:

That Martha they brought in to help Janine's baby was a famous OBGYN pre-Gilead. 

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That was such a great episode. The way the OB sighed and got emotional when she changed into the white coat and scrubs. I have never forgotten that moment. This show can be an absolute clusterfuck but when it works, it WORKS.

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I'm conflicted-torn between not wanting to see something happen to a baby (or a pregnancy) and not wanting SJ to get to keep a healthy child. I'd settle for a healthy pregnancy and birth followed immediately by the baby being placed with another family.

Despite the pregnancy troubles that the world is meant to be having, so far the births and pregnancies we've seen have been without issue. Janine, June (twice if counting Hannah), and Moira all delivered. 

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Regardless of what happens in Canada both Serena and Fred are done with Gilead. They can never go back. Fred would be killed or sent to the colonies and Serena either killed or made into a Handmaid. I don't know why they keep hanging on. 

The only reason Lawrence got off was a) he is the father of who created the social order and b) there wasn't any concrete evidence he participated with June. 

Look at the guy who list his hand because he was getting BJ's from Janine. 

  On 6/2/2021 at 5:03 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

Except for June's testimony in Canada...

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Well now... if Gilead is listening in. We don't know if the details of her testimony are being released or if it's broadcast.  Unless there is a Gilead sympathizer in the room there then Lawrence will be in double trouble as June spilled the beans on Lawrence not doing the ceremony.

 

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  On 6/2/2021 at 8:35 PM, greekmom said:

Well now... if Gilead is listening in. We don't know if the details of her testimony are being released or if it's broadcast.  Unless there is a Gilead sympathizer in the room there then Lawrence will be in double trouble as June spilled the beans on Lawrence not doing the ceremony.

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There's no reason to think its not an open hearing - Luke was allowed to be there and crowds are protesting and everyone knows there's hearings so its hard to believe Gilead has no spies keeping an eye on what's being said.

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  On 6/2/2021 at 5:01 PM, greekmom said:

The only reason Lawrence got off was a) he is the father of who created the social order and b) there wasn't any concrete evidence he participated with June. 

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and Aunt Lydia helped him blackmail other commanders.

 

  On 6/2/2021 at 5:03 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

Except for June's testimony in Canada...

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That phone call in the promo could get very interesting!

  On 6/2/2021 at 8:35 PM, greekmom said:

Well now... if Gilead is listening in. We don't know if the details of her testimony are being released or if it's broadcast.  Unless there is a Gilead sympathizer in the room there then Lawrence will be in double trouble as June spilled the beans on Lawrence not doing the ceremony.

 

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Of course they are listening.  They have spies too, or rather "eyes" but it looked like that was going out to the world, since it wasn't a Canadian court, but a world court.

  On 6/2/2021 at 10:09 PM, LordOfLotion said:

 

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Oh yay!  This looks seriously good!  Can't wait for the other promos from Israel, etc.

Hello there Nick.

  On 6/2/2021 at 10:16 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

My only quibble over Serena being made a handmaid (because yay, who doesn't deserve it more?) is that I don't know that a woman of her age will be able to pump out all that many more babies. Likewise June, to be honest.

I find myself wondering what happens to the women who age out? 

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Colonies I'd bet, for most of them.  Especially anyone who isn't important in some way.

Aunts seem to have a built in protection as well, probably from blackmail.

Serena might be able to push out one more kid.

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  On 6/2/2021 at 11:08 PM, Umbelina said:

That phone call in the promo could get very interesting!

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If it were me? I'd be suggesting that Serena's Gilead boy be traded for Hannah. That way, Lil Fred Jr. can be raised in his homeland as Serena and Fred should appreciate, and Gilead gets the good vibes politically for releasing a child to the natural parents now living in Canada.

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  On 6/2/2021 at 11:14 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

If it were me? I'd be suggesting that Serena's Gilead boy be traded for Hannah. That way, Lil Fred Jr. can be raised in his homeland as Serena and Fred should appreciate, and Gilead gets the good vibes politically for releasing a child to the natural parents now living in Canada.

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Cool idea!

  On 6/2/2021 at 11:20 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

On paper, its a win win for everyone. And hard for Fred and Serena to raise a legit objection.

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I can think of a ton of objections though, they are not the people who are raising Hannah, and by Gilead laws consider Hannah to be THEIR child.

That said, they may try this, but it will fail.

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  On 6/2/2021 at 11:14 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

If it were me? I'd be suggesting that Serena's Gilead boy be traded for Hannah. That way, Lil Fred Jr. can be raised in his homeland as Serena and Fred should appreciate, and Gilead gets the good vibes politically for releasing a child to the natural parents now living in Canada.

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Despite their support for Gilead and Gilead ways, Fred and especially Serena will never give up Freddy Jr. To Fred he's a status symbol. To Serena it's her end game - a child and a chance for her to be a mother.

  On 6/2/2021 at 11:08 PM, Umbelina said:

and Aunt Lydia helped him blackmail other commanders.

 

That phone call in the promo could get very interesting!

Of course they are listening.  They have spies too, or rather "eyes" but it looked like that was going out to the world, since it wasn't a Canadian court, but a world court.

Oh yay!  This looks seriously good!  Can't wait for the other promos from Israel, etc.

Hello there Nick.

Colonies I'd bet, for most of them.  Especially anyone who isn't important in some way.

Aunts seem to have a built in protection as well, probably from blackmail.

Serena might be able to push out one more kid.

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Actually - wasn't it Nick that saved Lawrence from the noose but Aunt Lydia who got him a seat on the council again?

I re-watched the youtube clip of the courtroom and besides Tuello, the female lawyer working with Tuello, Luke there were only a handful of reporters and they were behind a glass and no recording - only notepads and pen.

Would a reporter be an eye or spy? Sure. My point was that the court wasn't televised or being live streamed. 

I wonder at this point if show wont just break the Waterfords by keeping Serena in the plot and killing Fred or just sending him to jail till plot requires his presence.  I know Yvonne is super popular but her too I cant see how long they can drag her storyline. Unless she does a full change of heart by placing her in the Handmaid situation. 

The same with Aunt Lydia. She is so cray cray that I think she is crazier than Janine at this point.  I would like someone like Aunt Ruth be in the place of the role Aunt Lydia plays in the Testaments. 

Next week's episode does look good but so sad that Ester is a Handmaid at like 14/15 years old. 

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  On 6/2/2021 at 11:58 PM, greekmom said:

Despite their support for Gilead and Gilead ways, Fred and especially Serena will never give up Freddy Jr. To Fred he's a status symbol. To Serena it's her end game - a child and a chance for her to be a mother.

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I genuinely don't see why what Fred and Serena want is an issue - thats the fun of this idea.

They are both very likely to go to prison outside Gilead. So its not like they will be raising Freddy jr. Freddy Jr. would be going back to his homeland where he would be cared for by some kind Commander family while Fred and Serena deal with their legal challenges. IF Serena or Fred somehow get off, they will then be deported to Gilead, where Freddy waits. 

Now do we KNOW that Fred is dead and Serena a likely handmaid if they get sent back, sure! But they can't raise the baby themselves because they are in jail awaiting trial and they profess to love Gilead so whats the problem? :)

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We've had some fairly decent spoilers up until these final two episodes.

I do know that several recappers/reviewers were given all the episodes early, EXCEPT the final two.  I hope that means something shocking, such as, even more forward progress in the stories!

I have an idea what it might mean, but it could be too early for that.  My other guess is Fred and possibly Serena deported back to Gilead, the cliff hanger of course being what will Gilead do with them?  

  On 6/3/2021 at 5:02 PM, Umbelina said:

We've had some fairly decent spoilers up until these final two episodes.

I do know that several recappers/reviewers were given all the episodes early, EXCEPT the final two.  I hope that means something shocking, such as, even more forward progress in the stories!

I have an idea what it might mean, but it could be too early for that.  My other guess is Fred and possibly Serena deported back to Gilead, the cliff hanger of course being what will Gilead do with them?  

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There are some spoilers that leaked about a baby crossing gilead-canada border but it isn't clear in which direction and there was a spoiler photo of fred from the last episode entering a van which is supposidly the Eyes and tuello is right there.

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(edited)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPq4Pf3DLXY/?utm_medium=copy_link

I think Fred is seeing the writing on the wall that he is no longer an asset for Gilead - just a liability and they don't want him back. Lawrence again baffles me bc he was there when she took all those kids out (read them a story). Glad June isn't negotiating. Poor Ester - I hope she doesn't end up at Jezabels. I was hoping for more. 

Edited by greekmom
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  On 6/3/2021 at 10:26 PM, greekmom said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPq4Pf3DLXY/?utm_medium=copy_link

I think Fred is seeing the writing on the wall that he is no longer an asset for Gilead - just a liability and they don't want him back. Lawrence again baffles me bc he was there when she took all those kids out (read them a story). Glad June isn't negotiating. Poor Ester - I hope she doesn't end up at Jezabels. I was hoping for more. 

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Was that a Nick utterance? Will he do more than mumble and look tense? I truly cannot wait. 
 

Ah, June and Luke, they have to try but they are just going to get their hearts broken again. 

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OK, what are our guesses on how and why Nick and June meet up, and have we seen that house before?  Guess away!

Nick's supposed to be in charge of all forces in Chicago now, so he would certainly have the freedom to do/go where he wants to go, but how would June get that message?  Through Mayday?  He just sent a note?  

I'd guess it's in Canada, he certainly wouldn't want June to cross the border.

Does it have anything to do with June's phone call with Lawrence?

Is Nick still Mayday, or associated with Mayday, or pretending to be Mayday, but still can't leave Gilead due to his war crimes during the initial insurrection that murdered the three branches of the US Government?  So, he's fighting against Gilead where he can, but has to do it as a double agent?

Does Tuello know about him, is he one of his?

 

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  On 6/4/2021 at 12:12 AM, Umbelina said:

OK, what are our guesses on how and why Nick and June meet up, and have we seen that house before?  Guess away!

 

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Nick wanted some Tim Horton's coffee. 😁

If Nick is in Canada, will he stay? Is he allowed to stay? Does Canada know he's there? What Did Nick DO???? All of these questions had better be answered, lol. I love this show, but the bungling of the Nick storyline is just bonkers. And so help me god if they try to do any sort of "love triangle" BS, I'll scream. This is not the appropriate time for romantic tension! 

 

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  On 6/4/2021 at 5:22 PM, Stiggs said:

Nick wanted some Tim Horton's coffee. 😁

If Nick is in Canada, will he stay? Is he allowed to stay? Does Canada know he's there? What Did Nick DO???? All of these questions had better be answered, lol. I love this show, but the bungling of the Nick storyline is just bonkers. And so help me god if they try to do any sort of "love triangle" BS, I'll scream. This is not the appropriate time for romantic tension! 

 

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I am almost wondering if it's a dream.

That would suck.  Also, cheap shot producers if true.

Who knows?  Maybe he shows up. Confirms he is Mayday, even though he's a desperate criminal according to the world court. He and June take off to JOIN THE FIGHT!

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  On 6/6/2021 at 8:31 AM, Hathaway said:

I am almost wondering if it's a dream.

That would suck.  Also, cheap shot producers if true.

Who knows?  Maybe he shows up. Confirms he is Mayday, even though he's a desperate criminal according to the world court. He and June take off to JOIN THE FIGHT!

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Maybe he came with Commander Warren when the latter went to see Fred. There was that scene where Warren and Fred were talking, and I doubt it was in Gilead.

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This is from reddit. u/HandmaidHaven posted a summary for episode 9. She posted very accurate spoilers for 1-8 a few weeks ago so I thought I'd share here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/coconutsandtreason/comments/nt1zvp/episode_9_summary_spoilers/

  Reveal spoiler

 

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(edited)
  On 6/6/2021 at 3:21 PM, LordOfLotion said:

This is from reddit. u/HandmaidHaven posted a summary for episode 9. She posted very accurate spoilers for 1-8 a few weeks ago so I thought I'd share here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/coconutsandtreason/comments/nt1zvp/episode_9_summary_spoilers/

  Reveal spoiler

 

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Oy. I hope there's another twist. 

  Reveal spoiler

 

Edited by Brn2bwild
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