S01.E07: The Other Side

[A Boston Gal]

Nothing to see here...

Edited May 26, 2017 by A Boston Gal

[nodorothyparker]

59 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I 'jokingly' asked some coworkers in office chat whose attic I'd be hiding in if Handmaid's Tale happened. I admit I was curious to see reactions of typical 30-something men.

Across the board, the reaction was 'Honestly, this seems like the least likely possible dystopia ...'

No one offered to let me hide in their attic. 

And that's why I don't find Luke being slow to realize the mounting danger unrealistic.  Most women I know who don't have a political or religious motivation to not be paying attention look at this story and see the parallels and the warning.   Many men, even ones I know to generally be into dystopia, find it to be kind of far-fetched if not histrionic. 

[kieyra]

2 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

And that's why I don't find Luke being slow to realize the mounting danger unrealistic.  Most women I know who don't have a political or religious motivation to not be paying attention look at this story and see the parallels and the warning.   Many men, even ones I know to generally be into dystopia, find it to be kind of far-fetched if not histrionic. 

Meanwhile, the coming zombie apocalypse is worth people's serious analysis.

[nodorothyparker]

Yep.  I've wasted hours dissecting various survival strategies and how they're depicted in certain medium with some of these guys but The Handmaid's Take scenario they find too unrealistic even when I point out how accurately Atwood predicted things like a cashless society as a means of control.

[kieyra]

2 hours ago, A Boston Gal said:

Quick, semi-off topic Q: is there ANY way to fast forward on the Hulu app, so I don't have to rewatch the first 1/2-2/3 of this episode, and can pick it up from where I left off - in the white bus where Luke is being a jerk?

What platform are you using? Like, a laptop, a phone, a TV?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

Still do NOT buy that the Mexican guy made the connection between GileadJune and Luke's wife. It's a stretch.

I don't think he just made the connection after he got to Gilead. I think he knew who she was before he left Mexico (probably thanks to intelligence from other Mayday members like Emily) and he was just waiting for an opportunity where he could be alone with her and speak with her freely. I'm sure there other Mayday members in positions in Gilead who have access to things like the handmaids' records (maybe a disgruntled aunt who works at a red center or someone in the Gilead administration) and could dig around to see what the handmaids' real names are. Despite being renamed when they're moved to a new house, they must keep track of the handmaids by some other system so that they know which women have been placed in different homes, especially since they get moved around. Normally that information won't be very useful since it's not like Mayday can just bust in and rescue the handmaids, but knowing who she was ahead of time let the assistant dig around to see if anyone had reported her missing, get some information about her family (to offer as proof that he wasn't just saying, "Oh, hey, I know who your husband is. John Smith, right?"). Maybe this will be the tipping point that convinces her to join Mayday and start spying on the commander. Now that she's seen that he's not the nice guy he presented himself as, maybe she'll be even more eager to report what she hears.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Do You Have Questions About Life In The Handmaid's Tale's Gilead? Ask A Man!

Ladies: take a break. In Episode 7, a man is talking.

[rubinia]

3 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

The MOST annoying part to me was the scene where they had to give up the backpack. It get that it was meant to focus on the seriousness of the run, and also to allow for the camera shot of the photo album, but then they ALL got into the TRUNK OF A CAR! How is THAT not supposed to signal that you are running? And June rationally pointed out that people NOT on the run also carry backpacks, but didn't follow up the idiot coyote's argument with the fact that people with a CHILD carry them out of necessity. 

I thought it was weird to say that seeing someone with a backpack looked suspicious, but seeing someone just holding a bunch of photo albums WOULDN'T look suspicious?

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, rubinia said:

I thought it was weird to say that seeing someone with a backpack looked suspicious, but seeing someone just holding a bunch of photo albums WOULDN'T look suspicious?

Luke's not known for his brains.

[tvsoothesthespirit]

I might have liked it better if we had seen these events first through June's eyes, then through the eyes of the rescued, trainee handmaiden. I like that the women are the storytellers.

IMHO, that's what is the remarkable part of the series. Even though men have stolen all of the power (although there are always ways for the powerless to subvert it) we see this entire society through the eyes of women.

[Kuther2000]

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I agree that Luke seems like an average guy who isn't perfect and I'm okay with that. Not every guy is awesome yet so many of them seem to find women who love them. Haven't you ever had a friend whose boyfriend or husband was just kind of meh to you and whose flaws were obvious to you, but she seemed perfectly happy with him? When it comes to relationships, I think that there is no Most Perfect Person in the World, but there are people who you will be compatible with, who will get your sense of humor, and who accept you the way you are. For June, that was Luke. I think it would be less realistic if he were portrayed as a perfect fairy tale kind of guy. For me, he represents the average well-intentioned but sometimes clueless guy who exists A LOT in real life. He's not outright misogynistic. He just doesn't always get it because he's a guy so he doesn't have to. I'm not defending him because everyone can make an effort to understand what it's like for someone who's different. He isn't one of those Gilead men who believes his wife shouldn't work and that she should do this or that, but he also wasn't one of the men who was willing to stand up with his wife when she went to protest for her rights.

Yea. Sometimes I don't understand the comments about people not being able to see why June chose Luke. To me, this all boils down to June chose him. She wasn't given to him. She made a decision as a woman about her own life and fate. We shouldn't try to take it away from her just because we don't like Luke. 

11 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I think if this episode was from the POV of Commander Fred or any of the other men actually complicit in the new order, I would come down more in agreement with some of the complaints about this episode being about male perspective.  I mean, I do get where they're coming from.  But haven't we almost from the beginning been asking questions about what Gilead looks like from the outside?  What about the ordinary residents of the former U.S. who are not part of their claustrophobic little neighborhood?  What did they know or think was happening as it was all going down?  I know I've seen it asked here what happened to the men who aren't part of the Eyes or Guardians standing around with guns.  The most unsettling thing about this episode was all of these people still looked like us.  They hadn't donned their obvious color-coded dystopian costumes yet.  Their world was still recognizable.

It makes me happy to realize that people didn't just sit down and take it. There was resistance. They knew that what was happening wasn't right. Although they may have waited too late, they stood up.

20 hours ago, Proclone said:

 Like I said I don't think Luke is some perfect guy.  He cheated on his first wife, but nothing seems to indicate that he wasn't a good husband to June and a good father to his daughter.  I get why people might not like him, but in a series that has a fair amount of characters that have done some horrific things, Luke seems to be getting an inordinate amount of flack IMO.

I have noticed this on other shows as well. Some characters get voted worse person EVA on shows over rapist serial killers. cough **Catelyn Stark** cough

[AllyB]

5 hours ago, rubinia said:

I thought it was weird to say that seeing someone with a backpack looked suspicious, but seeing someone just holding a bunch of photo albums WOULDN'T look suspicious?

And after all of that, when they arrived in the cabin what had June got slung over her back? A backpack! Really shoddy bit of continuity there.

On the timeline. The guy who helped them escape said her mother gave him the snip two years ago after it became illegal. So presumably that was a law of the Commanders' regime rather than the old US. I imagine that law, probably forbidding all forms of birth control, would have been introduced early on, possibly around the same time that the women lost their jobs, had their bank accounts frozen and the protest was attacked. So that would mean June and Luke stayed for 2 years before attempting to leave and that publicly, the initial changes seemed slow. Moira too must have stayed for most of that time as she was in the same training group as June so couldn't have been caught long before her. I wonder what Serena did for all that time. If more than 2 years had passed between her being refused an audience at the meeting of future Commanders and her welcoming her new teal dresses, what did she spend that time doing and how was she still so chipper as she threw away her old outfits and Fred still so solicitous towards her? This episode makes last weeks make even less sense.

And what was Luke showing to the official who gave him June's letter? Some sort of scrap book? He was saying something about a high school with 200.....? What had he thought the meeting was about? Was he trying to identify training centres and convince the officials to somehow stage a rescue mission? Because that's just not realist and even if it was, 3 years on, that's not where June would be.

[kieyra]

Quote

I have noticed this on other shows as well. Some characters get voted worse person EVA on shows over rapist serial killers. cough **Catelyn Stark** cough

Two words: Skylar White.

That said, I understand the frustrations with Luke--after all, he's the show's symbol for the complacency that allows something like this to happen.

[EyesGlazed]

On 5/24/2017 at 6:42 PM, Proclone said:

I'm not trying to be a Luke apologist, but let's not blame him for things that aren't his fault either.  I don't think he's a perfect guy, but I do think he's a realistic character and he bothers me a lot less then he seems to bother many people on this board.  He could easily be someone I know.  He strikes me as a little on the passive side.  He probably thought that eventually everything would go back to normal and he stuck his head in the sand until it was too late. But it's got to be hard to give up your whole life and move to another country with only what you can carry in a backpack (and not even that in the end).  I can't really blame him or June for waiting. I know some people don't like him because of things he said or did in earlier flashbacks.  Sure he wasn't the most enlightened guy in the world, but once again everything he said sounded like something a typical guy I know would say.  

Same here.  I don't have a problem with Luke.  It would be unrealistic if he were Superman, or SuperEnlightenedMan for that matter.  And it looks like he has done some growing up and wising up in Little America.  The ending scene with him crying and holding the note was very powerful.

I too appreciated this episode for (1) getting us the hell out of Dodge for a while (meaning the Waterford horrowshow), (2) telling us more of the story of how Gilead took over, and (3) giving us more information about the resistance and the remnants of the U.S.A.

I just wish they didn't have kill off every sympathetic secondary character that we start getting to know.  And I am NOT looking forward to seeing what they've done to OfGlen . . .

[Proclone]

25 minutes ago, Kuther2000 said:

Yea. Sometimes I don't understand the comments about people not being able to see why June chose Luke. To me, this all boils down to June chose him. She wasn't given to him. She made a decision as a woman about her own life and fate. We shouldn't try to take it away from her just because we don't like Luke. 

It makes me happy to realize that people didn't just sit down and take it. There was resistance. They knew that what was happening wasn't right. Although they may have waited too late, they stood up.

I have noticed this on other shows as well. Some characters get voted worse person EVA on shows over rapist serial killers. cough **Catelyn Stark** cough

I don't really understand the comments about not understanding June's attraction for him either.  She was attracted to him, because she was a attracted to him. Nor do I really understand taking the flashbacks we are shown and applying them to the entirety of their relationship, especially since we are talking about years between those flashbacks.  The guy who cheated on his first wife, was older and probably a different man than the one we saw in this past episode.  In reality we don't know much about their relationship or what attracted them to each other.  On the other hand I was struck, that despite really stressful situations in this episode they worked really well together as a team, especially when it came to their daughter.  They managed up until the end of their escape attempt to not let their daughter know how afraid they really were.  If nothing else, June and Luke seemed like good parents.

I might not understand the visceral dislike from some people that Luke seems to garner, but I'd like to say it's kind of refreshing (and apropos give the show's topic) that a male character is the one that's such a polarizing figure.  In my experience it's often female characters that people seem to hate to such a extent given their relatively minor crimes in the show (as compared to other character in their respective shows).  Which I think is part of the casual sexism and misogyny that is rampant in our society.  It's both a function of how female characters are written and how audiences perceive female characters.  I did a bit of acting in high school and college and I had an acting teacher give me this note after a scene, "You can save a bus load of children, bring peace to the middle east, and cure cancer during the course of the play, but if you're a bitch in act one the audience will always see you as a bitch and hate you not matter what."  He wasn't wrong, but is the same true of male characters?  We often forgive male character their faults, or even see them as making them more interesting.  Would a character like House have been as popular if it had been a female character that misanthropic?  Is there a Draco-in-leather-pants phenomena counterpart for a female villainous character?  I can't think of many.

[kieyra]

I think it's also valid to note that Luke, relatively speaking, isn't getting nearly the level of bile as some of those female characters we speak of. Again, Skylar White comes to mind. And, you know, pretty much every female character on The Walking Dead's early seasons, IIRC, except for Michonne--and she doesn't talk much, which is an instant win for any woman/female character.

"I don't know what she sees in him" is fairly chill, comparatively, and I think that's been the most common observation.

(Full disclosure: I don't actually watch this show anymore because it was making me too freaked out and paranoid, but I recognize its importance and timeliness. I also welcome the observations of how Luke is perceived, I'm just offering some counterpoints.)

(O/T: if your depression meter isn't already full, see the new documentary The Keepers on Netflix.)

Edited May 26, 2017 by kieyra

[Scarlett45]

I enjoyed this episode. I liked that we got a glimpse of "in between" USA and Gilead. People were fighting and standing up, trying to help each other even if they didn't succeed. The missing posters along the wall were a powerful cinemographic choice  

 

June's note almost made me breakdown in tears. (It's been a rough day)

[NoSpam]

I'm "Meh" on this episode. Luke is such a passive bro -- did anyone else see the SNL takeoff on THT, where the male friends of the handmaids didn't notice that much has happened? Luke is one of those guys.

 I did manage to watch it all the way through, but I'd prefer to stick with Offred's story, and to wonder if there really is a world outside Gillead that's "normal." This episode made it sound like nothing's changed in Canada, other than a supply shortage. But surely they must be having the same fertility issues that Mexico is having. IMO that makes Gillead less threatening than before.

I don't think Luke was responsible for everyone getting killed on the way out. Zoey herself said "We'll leave after dark," so it was clear that they weren't taking extra time to go into the church and convince Luke to go with them. I wish a few more of the rebel force had managed to escape, though.

What the heck was Nick talking about when he first went into the meeting at the makeshift US Embassy? He said something about "high schools where they could hide 200 a piece." I wish they'd been clear what he was talking about.

Edited May 26, 2017 by NoSpam

[nodorothyparker]

54 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I think it's also valid to note that Luke, relatively speaking, isn't getting nearly the level of bile as some of those female characters we speak of. Again, Skylar White comes to mind. And, you know, pretty much every female character on The Walking Dead's early seasons, IIRC, except for Michonne--and she doesn't talk much, which is an instant win for any woman/female character.

Or every current female character who isn't always smiling and proactive in an audience approved fashion.  Just this past season one character got the bitch stamp for snapping at people while grieving while another earned it for walking down the street and not interacting pleasantly enough with someone she didn't want to talk to.  So Luke is still getting off relatively easy in this.

It honestly hadn't registered with me until it was mentioned, but I'll agree that seeing a male character be the focus of so much disproportionate ire for a change is fascinating.

[Shangrilala]

Quote

He really played the scenes very well, and the ending, I will admit, he pulled a Elisabeth with the close up camera work on his face as he processed getting June's note. 

I thought the very last scene was the best we've seen from the actor (part of why I don't like Luke could have to do with acting choices).  You know that when they handed that envelope he thought she was dead, then realizing she was alive, what she asked of him ("save hannah" - as a mom, THAT is the point that made me cry), but back to the sheer relief that she was alive and there was just the slightest glimmer of hope.  The actor did a good job with that.

Timeline question:  they say June is 31.  It's been 3 years.  That means she was 28 when she fled and Hannah was supposed to be 5 at the time.  That means she bad Hannah at we, but was pregnant at 22.  So....when did she meet and marry Luke?  Thinking they should have made her a few years older here.  She met Luke as a professional, not a student. Right?

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, NoSpam said:

What the heck was Nick talking about when he first went into the meeting at the makeshift US Embassy? He said something about "high schools where they could hide 200 a piece." I wish they'd been clear what he was talking about.

 

I think he was tracking and trying to pinpoint "training centers" for the Handmaids.  Wasn't high school mentioned earlier as a place they were taking the red-tagged women?  Looked like he was putting together research of some kind to try to find June?

I'm hoping they will connect the dots to the Mexican Ambassador's assistant and Luke.  Was he given her data by another member of Mayday who was in the records department, or was it perhaps Nick?  Nick would probably know all about her, in case she were to run, and if he is a member of Mayday, he would know others that would have that.  He seems to make the most sense in a connect-the-dots way, but I suppose the assistant could have other connections.  Nick's the one that knew her name though...

Edited May 26, 2017 by Umbelina

[NoSpam]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

I think he was tracking and trying to pinpoint "training centers" for the Handmaids.  Wasn't high school mentioned earlier as a place they were taking the red-tagged women?  Looked like he was putting together research of some kind to try to find June?

I'm hoping they will connect the dots to the Mexican Ambassador's assistant and Luke.  Was he given her data by another member of Mayday who was in the records department, or was it perhaps Nick?  Nick would probably know all about her, in case she were to run, and if he is a member of Mayday, he would know others that would have that.  He seems to make the most sense in a connect-the-dots way, but I suppose the assistant could have other connections.  Nick's the one that knew her name though...

Oh, that makes sense about the schools. Although they are all shapes and sizes -- my siblings went to a school that housed over 1,000, and mine held only 200. I guess he didn't realize that June would be long gone -- they might not have shared with the general public that handmaids were being outplaced to Commanders' homes.

From what we saw in the makeshift embassy, it looks like data has been collected on the missing. They had all of the flyers and pictures in the hallway; it's likely that was compiled in some kind of database. Perhaps after the Assistant saw June, he tapped into that data? There is a big missing piece, which is how he knew to connect "Offred" to "June." I suppose Gilead *could* be tracking original names, since their names were used in the Red Center.

[AllyB]

1 hour ago, NoSpam said:

Oh, that makes sense about the schools. Although they are all shapes and sizes -- my siblings went to a school that housed over 1,000, and mine held only 200. I guess he didn't realize that June would be long gone -- they might not have shared with the general public that handmaids were being outplaced to Commanders' homes.

The outside world does know quite a lot about how the handmaid system works. We know at least one aunt escaped to Canada and gave an interview to the Toronto Star that detailed everything about how they work. Gilead had some very 'good men' working on a way to spin that and tell their version of how things are for handmaids. Luke is just delusional. Tbh, I don't know why people are assuming that Luke is some sort of reformed rebel freedom fighter now. It seemed to me like he is just this guy who keeps trying to insert himself into a resistance movement that's not that interested in dealing with him because he's obsessively focused on one, unworkable idea. While he waited for the official in the hallway he seemed a mix of desperate to make his point while resigned to being ignored. Then almost surprised and thankful when she came for him, despite him being called to the embassy. It really gave me the impression that he regularly doorsteps them to share his 'intelligence' and ideas and that normally they can't get away fast enough.

And his interactions with the mute woman he escaped with just seemed like same old Luke. Paternalistic, telling her what to do, insisting she doesn't give into what she wants - to go back to her apartment - because he knows what's best for her and she should stay outside. Then he kept on insisting how good everything was, when she clearly wasn't feeling it. While I can see that in some circumstances his actions might be the best way to help his friend from giving into feelings of depression. For this particular character, who's major flaw was his cheery dismissal of his wife's feelings and fears, writing him doing something so similar to another woman does not show growth. It shows the same man, acting the same way in spite of the world changing.

Edited May 26, 2017 by AllyB

[NoSpam]

2 hours ago, AllyB said:

 Luke is just delusional. Tbh, I don't know why people are assuming that Luke is some sort of reformed rebel freedom fighter now. It seemed to me like he is just this guy who keeps trying to insert himself into a resistance movement that's not that interested in dealing with him because he's obsessively focused on one, unworkable idea.

 

Yes, ITA. He seems to think that everyone would benefit from his opinions, despite not knowing anything about anything. . His incessant mansplaining is insufferable to me.

I was hoping they'd kill him off, but now that they have to td two seasons... I'm not sure I'll be cheering if June reunites with him.

[Kuther2000]

3 hours ago, AllyB said:

The outside world does know quite a lot about how the handmaid system works. We know at least one aunt escaped to Canada and gave an interview to the Toronto Star that detailed everything about how they work. Gilead had some very 'good men' working on a way to spin that and tell their version of how things are for handmaids. Luke is just delusional. Tbh, I don't know why people are assuming that Luke is some sort of reformed rebel freedom fighter now. It seemed to me like he is just this guy who keeps trying to insert himself into a resistance movement that's not that interested in dealing with him because he's obsessively focused on one, unworkable idea. While he waited for the official in the hallway he seemed a mix of desperate to make his point while resigned to being ignored. Then almost surprised and thankful when she came for him, despite him being called to the embassy. It really gave me the impression that he regularly doorsteps them to share his 'intelligence' and ideas and that normally they can't get away fast enough.

And his interactions with the mute woman he escaped with just seemed like same old Luke. Paternalistic, telling her what to do, insisting she doesn't give into what she wants - to go back to her apartment - because he knows what's best for her and she should stay outside. Then he kept on insisting how good everything was, when she clearly wasn't feeling it. While I can see that in some circumstances his actions might be the best way to help his friend from giving into feelings of depression. For this particular character, who's major flaw was his cheery dismissal of his wife's feelings and fears, writing him doing something so similar to another woman does not show growth. It shows the same man, acting the same way in spite of the world changing.

I dont know that seems to be alot to take out of one scene. It is quite possible Luke is working for the people or he may just be trying to work out solutions to get his own family back. If a woman was doing the same thing with the paperwork and ideas, I would never fault her.    Luke and the mute lady, I don't think Luke is being patronizing to her. When we first saw her she is completely traumatized. When we see her three years, she looks vibrant. Luke has probably assisted her all those years the worst years. He doesn't want her to go backward on her progress. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by Kuther2000
Spelling error

[AllyB]

1 hour ago, Kuther2000 said:

I dont know that seems to be alot to take out of one scene.

You think? And I didn't even mention how he gave me the rage when he got out of that manual doored lift and just walked off. Leaving the woman left in the lift to close them behind him if she ever wanted to continue to her floor. He's such a thoughtless person that I even have a suspicion that the reason he missed out on getting coffee was because he faffed about for half an hour telling his flatmate what she should do and telling her how nice everything was instead of just going and getting the damn coffee when he said he would. (That's obviously just my little head cannon but it sure fits his MO.)

I don't hate Luke, I don't think he is a bad guy but he clearly is a thoughtless man who wanders through life with a sense of entitlement he would never acknowledge because he thinks of himself as a great guy. He's the type of person who would give you everything he thinks you need, regardless what you actually wanted or needed, while congratulating himself on his own loveliness. I'd say he genuinely cares for the woman he is with and his friendship is better for her than being alone but he's still acting like he knows best. He's still essentially the exact same guy he was before his escape. Despite everything he has experienced, he hasn't really grown. And that's a problem because that lack of awareness can be a factor in allowing regimes like Gilead to come to power.

Spoiler

And that all actually tallies well with the book and how casual misogyny still exists post Gilead.

 Tbh, if these small character moments are a deliberate choice by the writers then that's fantastic and I'm loving the direction they are going in. If it's not deliberate then it's really worrying that the writers of this show have learned so few of the lessons of the book.

Edited May 26, 2017 by AllyB

[Eureka]

8 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I think he was tracking and trying to pinpoint "training centers" for the Handmaids.  Wasn't high school mentioned earlier as a place they were taking the red-tagged women?  

High schools would probably would be a good place to find fertile young women too. She never mentioned school in Gilead in the book. Do you think the little kids are sent to any kind of school? What about the people who are teens in present-day Gilead? Would there still be high schools?

[A Boston Gal]

21 hours ago, kieyra said:

What platform are you using? Like, a laptop, a phone, a TV?

Figured it out, thanks, Kieyra. Slow learner, here! ;)

[JasonCC]

In some ways the subtle things like the "gender traitors" and "death to fags" graffiti was the most chilling. It wasn't like the Commanders or Guardians likely did that....it was just other people emboldened by what was happening politically. Kind of like the morning of November 9th, 2016 when suburban gay couples found notes like this on their cars.

[Kuther2000]

16 minutes ago, JasonCC said:

In some ways the subtle things like the "gender traitors" and "death to fags" graffiti was the most chilling. It wasn't like the Commanders or Guardians likely did that....it was just other people emboldened by what was happening politically. Kind of like the morning of November 9th, 2016 when suburban gay couples found notes like this on their cars.

You will see you. What does that even mean? My God. At least read what you wrote  before putting that on someone's car. It makes you seem dumb besides being homophobic.

[Baltimore Betty]

13 minutes ago, Kuther2000 said:

You will see you. What does that even mean? My God. At least read what you wrote  before putting that on someone's car. It makes you seem dumb besides being homophobic.

Thank you!

The level ignorance is alarming.

[chocolatine]

12 minutes ago, Kuther2000 said:

You will see you. What does that even mean? My God. At least read what you wrote  before putting that on someone's car. It makes you seem dumb besides being homophobic.

That's exactly the point. People who write such things aren't usually known for their intellect.

[JasonCC]

One point about the "makeshift" consulate in Toronto. I wonder if that was more just a headquarters for Mayday. If Canada is doing the right thing and not recognizing the Republic of Gilead wouldn't the American consulates and embassies be arms of the remaining USA out of Anchorage?

[Umbelina]

48 minutes ago, JasonCC said:

One point about the "makeshift" consulate in Toronto. I wonder if that was more just a headquarters for Mayday. If Canada is doing the right thing and not recognizing the Republic of Gilead wouldn't the American consulates and embassies be arms of the remaining USA out of Anchorage?

I didn't think it was really a USA consulate either, and I doubt Gilead had one, since no one is recognizing/trading with Gilead (from the last episode.)  A Mayday headquarters?  Maybe.  I did think it was set up for the "Little America" or whatever they called it, ex pat's.

2 hours ago, AllyB said:

You think? And I didn't even mention how he gave me the rage when he got out of that manual doored lift and just walked off. Leaving the woman left in the lift to close them behind him if she ever wanted to continue to her floor. He's such a thoughtless person that I even have a suspicion that the reason he missed out on getting coffee was because he faffed about for half an hour telling his flatmate what she should do and telling her how nice everything was instead of just going and getting the damn coffee when he said he would. (That's obviously just my little head cannon but it sure fits his MO.)

I don't hate Luke, I don't think he is a bad guy but he clearly is a thoughtless man who wanders through life with a sense of entitlement he would never acknowledge because he thinks of himself as a great guy. He's the type of person who would give you everything he thinks you need, regardless what you actually wanted or needed, while congratulating himself on his own loveliness. I'd say he genuinely cares for the woman he is with and his friendship is better for her than being alone but he's still acting like he knows best. He's still essentially the exact same guy he was before his escape. Despite everything he has experienced, he hasn't really grown. And that's a problem because that lack of awareness can be a factor in allowing regimes like Gilead to come to power.

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And that all actually tallies well with the book and how casual misogyny still exists post Gilead.

 Tbh, if these small character moments are a deliberate choice by the writers then that's fantastic and I'm loving the direction they are going in. If it's not deliberate then it's really worrying that the writers of this show have learned so few of the lessons of the book.

I agree.  If Luke is an "average guy" then God help us all.  I have a strong feeling that they are going to reform him though, because of what the Mexican Ambassador's assistant said about him.  Luckily we've see some real "average guys" including the now dead guy that helped them escape, possibly the undercover Mayday guy Nick (which is where the show seems to be going with him) and the guy with the gun and the dog at the lake.

[PsychoDrone]

I think Luke is getting a bad rap.  His character is truer than people want to give credit.  Think about history and the Holocaust.  Plenty of stories where people stuck around thinking that it wouldn't get so bad or happen to them.  And, history shows how that turned out.  The female leader pulling the gun on him reminded me about Harriet Tubman threatening slaves in the underground railroad.  The Israelites, during the exodus, wanted to go back to Egypt and be slaves.  As frustrating as it is to see him acting that way, it's not wholly unbelievable.  Unfortunately, his actions put others at risk.

This episode took us away from the "action", but it was good to see.  I am curious to see how the rest of the world/country is dealing with the new status quo.

Edited May 26, 2017 by PsychoDrone

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, PsychoDrone said:

I think Luke is getting a bad rap.  His character is truer than people want to give credit.  Think about history and the Holocaust.  Plenty of stories where people stuck around thinking that it wouldn't get so bad or happen to them.  And, history shows how that turned out.  The female leader pulling the gun on him reminded me about Harriet Tubman threatening slaves in the underground railroad.  The Israelites, during the exodus, wanted to go back to Egypt and be slaves.  As frustrating as it is to see him acting that way, it's not wholly unbelievable.  Unfortunately, his actions put others at risk.

This episode took us away from the "action", but it was good to see.  I am curious to see how the rest of the world/country is dealing with the new status quo.

I TOO had the mental image of Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad during that scene. 

[AllyB]

3 hours ago, PsychoDrone said:

I think Luke is getting a bad rap.  His character is truer than people want to give credit. 

It's exactly because his character is so true to life that people find him so irritating. Few of us know a Fred Waterford, he's not the kind of person most people have the misfortune to interact with. But we all know a Luke. We all probably even like, care about, or even love a Luke. He's not a villain, he's pretty much just a normal, average guy. In lots of ways he is the good man he thinks he is. But he's also the archetype of the good man who did nothing and allowed evil to flourish. And it is shown in lots of small little ways that part of the reason he did nothing, was because at first he didn't really mind the changes because they weren't all that at odds to his deep seated sense of privilege. 

[NoSpam]

8 hours ago, JasonCC said:

One point about the "makeshift" consulate in Toronto. I wonder if that was more just a headquarters for Mayday.

They had portraits of former Presidents, which made me think consulate.

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, NoSpam said:

They had portraits of former Presidents, which made me think consulate.

That's a bit strange though, since the USA still exists, but it's only Hawaii and Alaska, but maybe those representatives feel that escapees from Gilead are still their citizens?

[NoSpam]

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

That's a bit strange though, since the USA still exists, but it's only Hawaii and Alaska, but maybe those representatives feel that escapees from Gilead are still their citizens?

Yes, I figured all the "Little America" residents were still citizens of the US. And that might have been a US consulate. No reason why the US wouldn't be helping Mayday.

Im an expat myself (an Italian living in the US), and that center Luke went to felt a lot like my Italian consulate. Mine even has all the random fliers in the waiting area, though they aren’t all for missing persons (some fliers are, though) 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

That's a bit strange though, since the USA still exists, but it's only Hawaii and Alaska, but maybe those representatives feel that escapees from Gilead are still their citizens?

I would certainly think the USA feels Gilead escapees to Canada (and other parts) are still their citizens, just displaced due to circumstances. It's probably logistically easier to have them form communities in Canada than try to get every single US citizen that escaped Gilead on a plane to Alaska or Hawaii. 

[Eureka]

20 hours ago, Shangrilala said:

 

Timeline question:  they say June is 31.  It's been 3 years.  That means she was 28 when she fled and Hannah was supposed to be 5 at the time.  That means she bad Hannah at we, but was pregnant at 22.  So....when did she meet and marry Luke?  Thinking they should have made her a few years older here.  She met Luke as a professional, not a student. Right?

 Wondered about that too. In the book she's 33. Don't know why they aged her down.

[HeySandyStrange]

2 hours ago, AllyB said:

It's exactly because his character is so true to life that people find him so irritating. Few of us know a Fred Waterford, he's not the kind of person most people have the misfortune to interact with. But we all know a Luke. We all probably even like, care about, or even love a Luke. He's not a villain, he's pretty much just a normal, average guy. In lots of ways he is the good man he thinks he is. But he's also the archetype of the good man who did nothing and allowed evil to flourish. And it is shown in lots of small little ways that part of the reason he did nothing, was because at first he didn't really mind the changes because they weren't all that at odds to his deep seated sense of privilege. 

Well, June was fairly passive herself (and still is to an extant) until it was to late. Yes, she wanted to leave earlier but she didn't exactly push hard or try to make a run for it herself, as far we can tell. It's that whole thing about the frog in boiling water that jumps out right away vs. the frog in lukewarm water that doesn't realize the temperature is rising. Even Moira, Emily, Nick, and the two different men who helped June and Luke apparently stuck around as things hurdled downhill and got caught up in the Gilead horror show. That's how a lot of otherwise good people can ignore evil, because they don't realize it is happening before it is too late. And the unfortunate truth is that to a lot of people are Lukes, not matter how smart, educated, or self-aware they may believe themselves.

[NoSpam]

Any theories on why they took Luke in the ambulance and were concerned he stay alive? I'd have thought they'd be happy to kill him. They got the two things they wanted, Hannah and June. Why keep Luke alive and rush to the hospital?

[dleighg]

3 hours ago, NoSpam said:

Any theories on why they took Luke in the ambulance and were concerned he stay alive? I'd have thought they'd be happy to kill him. They got the two things they wanted, Hannah and June. Why keep Luke alive and rush to the hospital?

Not that explains anything, but one of the ambulance guys said something like "keep him alive- the boss (or whatever word he used) wants to question him."  I agree, it's kind of a weak justification. I guess they might want to know who helped them, but that's a lot of effort to go through.

[PsychoDrone]

15 hours ago, AllyB said:

It's exactly because his character is so true to life that people find him so irritating. Few of us know a Fred Waterford, he's not the kind of person most people have the misfortune to interact with. But we all know a Luke.

Not only do we all know a Luke, but many of us ARE Luke.  You find out a person's character in adversity.  Think about the female leader.  She is credited as being a bad ass and hate that she was killed.  We don't know her former life, but she may have been an elementary school teacher or something else fairly tame.  She may have had her Luke moment(s), but rose to the occasion to save others.  Luke may redeem himself too or not.  Regardless, I'm all in for this show.

[Kim0820]

On 5/26/2017 at 9:58 AM, Eureka said:

High schools would probably would be a good place to find fertile young women too. She never mentioned school in Gilead in the book. Do you think the little kids are sent to any kind of school? What about the people who are teens in present-day Gilead? Would there still be high schools?

 

I had wondered just how old a girl had to be to be considered a handmaid.  They are going by the Bible and its times.  Handmaids could be as young as 14.  Though they haven't shown that.   But it fits with their horrible view of things.  

 

14 hours ago, Umbelina said:

That's a bit strange though, since the USA still exists, but it's only Hawaii and Alaska, but maybe those representatives feel that escapees from Gilead are still their citizens?

 

Yes, once in Canada, would you make for Alaska?  I would think the remnant of the US would consider Gilead escapees their citizens.  It is very likely they want as many as possible to help them get the US back.  

[AllyB]

25 minutes ago, Kim0820 said:

Yes, once in Canada, would you make for Alaska?  I would think the remnant of the US would consider Gilead escapees their citizens.  It is very likely they want as many as possible to help them get the US back.  

If I was an American refugee, unless I planned on joining the resistance, I doubt I'd stay in Canada. The vast majority of Canada's population live within 100 miles of the US border. If Gilead could pretty much take over 48 states of the US in a few short years, I would feel very insecure in most Canadian cities. It would just be too easy for Gilead to attack. I'd probably base myself in Nova Scotia and apply for visas to any country with less repressive regimes.

[WaltersHair]

Quote

Same here. I woke up to a pilot of some new show (hate Hulu's auto-forward feature).

And now, strangely enough, that is no longer happening. Is that you watching Gilead-Hulu?

[Guest]

On 5/24/2017 at 10:32 AM, PreviouslyTV said:

Ladies: take a break. In Episode 7, a man is talking.

View the full article

Reading this was worth having to struggle through this terrible episode. 

I wish whoever shot Luke had deadlier aim.