S03.E20: Chapter Sixty-Four

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

Quote

Jane struggles to find the right words for Rogelio and Xo's ceremony, when she learns about a mysterious letter that Michael wrote before their wedding. Rogelio and Xo are excited for their big day, but Rogelio gets some shocking news that could put things on hold. Once again Rafael is upset with Luisa and asks her to leave, but Luisa has a plan of her own. Meanwhile, Petra is skeptical about Jane's feelings for Rafael which leads her to make a rash decision.

Promo:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Scene:

[Lady Calypso]

I've basically stopped watching since the long hiatus, but tuned it basically because I read the summary to this episode and it mentioned Michael. Yeah, I knew Brett would make a cameo, but it just made it clear as to why I stopped watching and stopped caring. He really brought something to the show that kept me watching. And it really sucks to admit that, because it's not like Michael was the star and he was just a supporting character, but with him dead and the time jump and then the multiple hiatuses, plus with me not liking Rogelio all that much since the time jump and not into Xo/Rogelio, and knowing that Rafael/Petra won't be a thing since Jane/Rafael is endgame, it's just made me realize that I might really have to break up with the show next season, for good. I just haven't enjoyed it as much, even though it's still a lot better than I thought it would be. 

Damn, Rafael's angry outburst at Luisa was harsh, but I was so cheering him on. 

I still like the Villaneueva women scenes. I wish those scenes were enough for me to keep watching. And I like Rafael, and don't hate Rafael/Jane, but it's also not enough to keep me watching. 

Of course Darcy's pregnant. 

Oh man, though. Michael's letter was just...yeah. I just love Jane/Michael so much, and seeing so much of him was just a treat. 

Also, since we're stuck with Luisa, I'm definitely not interested in her and Rose 4.0 (because we all know Rose is getting out of jail and getting back with Luisa).

I also assume Petra won't be shot by her sister, or else that definitely guarantees me not coming back. 

Oh. Hi Tyler Posey. You're...yeah, another reason why I won't be watching. I kind of call bullshit on the white cranes flying away just as she sees her first love. 

[voiceover]

DirecTV says this is the season AND *series* finale!

Really??

[allonsyalice]

1 minute ago, voiceover said:

DirecTV says this is the season AND *series* finale!

Really??

No! they've started filming on the next season!

[SeanC]

I had a big smile at hearing "Una Flor" play again.

[voiceover]

2 minutes ago, allonsyalice said:

No! they've started filming on the next season!

Thanks -- I've never come running to this site faster than I did after I read that!

[mrsbagnet]

This show desperately, desperately needs to get rid of Luisa. She is a drain on show. The idea that she is even the least bit justified in being angry about Raf's rejection is preposterous. Telenovelas often have more than one villain. Time for a new one. Get rid of Luisa and Rose, PLEASE.

[elle]

Mateo said "family dance" and I realized - Where are the girls?

I sure hope those candles where battery operated because when I all of them my first thought was fire hazard!

Was something supposed to have happened after Jane declared that her parents deserved their happy ending and then the screen went white and then cut back to Jane finishing up the ceremony?  I was anticipating seeing young Xo and Ro there.  

I just realized Xo's tiara has sea shells on it!

Edited May 23, 2017 by elle

[LaughingOne]

18 minutes ago, mrsbagnet said:

This show desperately, desperately needs to get rid of Luisa. She is a drain on show. The idea that she is even the least bit justified in being angry about Raf's rejection is preposterous. Telenovelas often have more than one villain. Time for a new one. Get rid of Luisa and Rose, PLEASE.

I don't know, I feel like this is the first time that they're playing Luisa as full-on villain.  It's always been poor, confused, love-addicted Luisa.  They've always given her the yes-she-messes-up-but-she-means-well writing. But yeah, having her turn on Rafael after everything he's done for her and how many times he's forgiven her and everything that Rose did to Rafael and Jane, that's pretty rich.  Anyway, I don't mind making Luisa the villain, so long as they don't extend her sympathy that she doesn't deserve and so long as Rose stays in jail.  On a related, positive note, Bridget Regan's character was just discovered alive on Grey's Anatomy, so fingers crossed that we won't be seeing Rose much next season.

[Last Time Lord]

So, I've never seen this show, before tonight. I usually DVR Supergirl, but I watched it live, tonight, and I kept on watching after it ended, and I watched this episode, and well, let's just say I'm now on episode 3 on Netflix.

[Simba122504]

I figured Tyler was the first love, Adam. Rafael lost everything like predicted. The writers want us to forget Rafael bought a share into the hotel in S1. He used his trust fund. But again, tv writers. If Rafael had to chose between Petra and Jane. He would chose Jane. He knows that and even Petra knows that. But the show will do a love square. Jane, Rafael, Petra,  Adam. Adam is another J/R road block. I liked how simple Xo/Ro's wedding was. Jane's dress didn't look terrible once she put it on. Rose didn't kill Scott but she killed many and shot Michael while pretending to be someone else. I actually liked the Adam/Jane scene because it was so JTV. I'm excited about S4. J/R is and has always been the OTP. The show will throw everything in their way before we get there.

29 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

So, I've never seen this show, before tonight. I usually DVR Supergirl, but I watched it live, tonight, and I kept on watching after it ended, and I watched this episode, and well, let's just say I'm now on episode 3 on Netflix.

You will not regret it. It's such a unique show compared to everything else on American television. Such an awesome series. 

[Last Time Lord]

12 minutes ago, Simba122504 said:

You will not regret it. It's such a unique show compared to everything else on American television. Such an awesome series.

It really is. I think I was put off by the premise, but I'm really enjoying it.

Trying to not get too attached to the Michael/Jane relationship, since I know what happens. That is not working out very well.

[twoods]

1 hour ago, Last Time Lord said:

It really is. I think I was put off by the premise, but I'm really enjoying it.

Trying to not get too attached to the Michael/Jane relationship, since I know what happens. That is not working out very well.

Have fun binging on this show- it's amazing. Yes, it is definitely hard not to get attached to Michael because Michael and Jane are so cute.  It just gets worse as he's cute with her family as well. I think that's why it's hard for people like myself to watch this show after what they did to Michael because it still hurts. I still go on this board to read what's going on because I am curious to see how the characters are doing after the time jump- I just can't watch right now because there will be tears. Maybe next season...

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

No! they've started filming on the next season!

They have been renewed but I don't think they've started filming yet.  That will probably happen later this summer unless there are some scheduling reasons (afraid of writers strike, pregnancy of actress) that they wanted to get ahead of.

3 hours ago, LaughingOne said:

I don't know, I feel like this is the first time that they're playing Luisa as full-on villain.  It's always been poor, confused, love-addicted Luisa.

I agree.  I loved Bridget Regan but Rose should be d-o-n-e. Petra used to be a second tier "villain" on the show in that she would make mischief but was still given a sympathetic POV as opposed to Rose's first tier villain full of murder and mayhem.  Or at least that's the role Petra played in Season 1.  In seasons 2 and 3, I've felt they gave her more and more sympathetic writing and had her up to less mischief so she no longer serves that second tier villainess role.  I could see Luisa playing that part. 

I really liked the finale.  I thought Michael's scenes lacked the energy that his usually had but that could just be my reaction as one of the few who liked the character but also felt his fate had to happen. So maybe the reaction is wrapped up in my weird feelings rather than the scenes.

I love how beautiful the storm made everything look with the candles, shadows and darkness.  I did roll my eyes that some guy would keep a random letter he found and then bring it to a hotel just after a hurricane. And I questioned Petra's memory of Rafael "choosing" Jane.  He was done with Petra in season 1 in the pilot. It's not like he wanted to be with Petra and Jane and had to choose.  He had already opted out of Petra.

And don't get me started of the logistics of TV money.  Like Simba said, IIRC, the hotel was somewhat independent of his father. The trust fun was something he had access to before Emilio died and while I'm no lawyer, I would think it'd be independent of his father's estate. 

[NeenerNeener]

I giggled inappropriately when they played "Come on Eileen" during that scene with Scott on the beach.

[Jillybean]

Why was Darcy at the hotel during the wedding?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Awww, when the narrator said that he loved Xiomara, I may have gotten a little misty-eyed. Of course, I always cry at weddings and whenever we see Michael flashbacks so I was already ready to start crying again. Does that mean the narrator is Alba's husband?

When Xiomara said in a previous episode that she wanted a big poufy fairy tale dress, I thought it was going to be a lot bigger. Her dress was not inappropriately poufy or immature for someone her age the way the wedding planners said it would be. Sheesh.

Like Jane, I am a planner. I make lists (and spreadsheets) but when I was planning my wedding, I knew I had to let go of my control freak tendencies. Our backup plan in case of rain was to send everyone to the reception site and to get married in the pouring rain, just the two of us with my best friend officiating. I was hoping it wouldn't come to that but I knew that if it did, I would be okay with that because the most important thing was that we got married then and there. Thank goodness we didn't end up with a hurricane though!

I wasn't crazy about the Petra is jealous of Jane storyline. I know it's realistic considering what happened in the past, but in Rafael's defense, it's not like he just started cheating on Petra out of the blue. Their marriage was on the rocks when he met Jane. Petra was already cheating on him and scheming against him, so yes, it sucks that he ended up with Jane but it's not like Petra was some sweet docile innocent wifey who was jilted unexpectedly.

In addition, the two things that she got visibly jealous about in this episode were ridiculous. First she saw Jane and Rafael hugging. Sorry, lady, but that's what BFFs do. Secondly, she got pissy because Rafael promised Jane that Rogelio and Xiomara could get married at the hotel. I know there was a storm and she was trying to accommodate the surge of last minute guests who were coming over from Chuck's hotel, but come on. If you promise someone they can get married, you let them get married - ESPECIALLY if there's a hurricane.

I don't blame Rafael at all for the way he responded at the end of his fight with Petra about Jane. I refuse to be with someone who is going to be blatantly jealous of someone else who will ALWAYS be a part of my life.

It's about time Anezka and Luisa teamed up. It's a telenovela so it was inevitable that two of the bad guys would come together to take down the protagonists. I know that Luisa was hurt by Rafael's outburst, but does she really expect him to forgive the woman who kidnapped his son and murdered his father? Her excuse that Rose isn't like that anymore isn't good enough for me. Great that she isn't kidnapping and murdering people NOW, but what about the people who she already kidnapped and murdered? Does she expect all to be forgiven and forgotten just because she isn't currently kidnapping and murdering people?

I feel like Rose's defense of "my face twin did it" was a stretch. If only Scott and the real Eileen were there when it happened, how would Rose know that Eileen killed Scott to protect her deal with Rose? There's assumption and then there's actually knowing. It sounds a little too convenient to me that Rose is pinning another murder on someone else.

Now that Luisa is in charge, will Jane and Alba lose their jobs at the Marbella? Ha, is Rafael going to move in with Alba and Jane? If I recall correctly, Petra owns some of the hotel, right? So does that mean Luisa can't fire her? I'm assuming that Luisa is Team Anezka so she won't be fond of Petra. Maybe instead of shooting Petra, Anezka will pretend to be Petra and work with Luisa at the Marbella.

I don't remember all the details (I think my brain blocked out some of the aftermath of Michael's shooting), but do Jane et al know that it was Rose who shot Michael? Even though Rose didn't kill Scott, can't they still charge her with some of the other stuff that they know she did?

 

[swimmyfish]

Is that really the end of the Rose/Sin Rostro storyline? I won't be sorry if it is, but it seems awfully anticlimactic.

Also, while Rafael has many legitimate reasons to be angry at Luisa over her continued relationship with Rose, saying that she was crazy, 'just like her mother' was completely uncalled for. Also, I'm so very tired of the machinations over who owns the hotel, so I probably wouldn't have cared that Raf got kicked out anyway, but still - this is yet another reason that I've never really trusted him.

As for Adam, well - I guess you're nice, but honestly? The show is going to have to do a lot of work to get me to care about this guy. I'm also incredibly wary that he just happened to move in to the apartment where Jane & Michael had lived. There may have been a whole theme of fate running through the episode, but I will not be surprised if Adam turns out to be a crazy stalker.

On the other hand, I am very happy Xo and Ro finally got married! Also, Alba yelling at Xo because she didn't want to make her cry was so sweet, and a really good showcase for Ivonne Coll, who doesn't always get to go big and zany like the rest of the cast does.

Also, I didn't think Jane's dress was so bad? I mean, it's big, but the theme was a Fairy Tale Wedding, and it seemed to go right along with that.

[Joana]

OMG, we saw Michael!!! And... that about sums up my feelings about this episode. It would be really nice, though, if Jane had in any shape or form acknowledged that the woman who KILLED her husband was now in prison, or if anyone else on the show had noticed it, but I guess you can't have it all.

I cannot emphasize how over Luisa and Anezka I am at this point. I loved Luisa. She used to be such a loveable mess, but now she's just a mess and it's irredeemable. And while I was never fully on board with having Anezka on the show, I thought her presence would at least make for some interesting storylines. This is just stale and tired. Not to mention the way they've playing her has been mostly ridiculous.

It was all just so neat and formulaic. Of course Darcy would be pregnant. Not a doubt Michael would give his blessings to Jane from his grave. I doubt he even gets mentioned more than a couple of times next season. OF COURSE Jane runs into her old flame just in time to make another love triangle/rectangle/whatever. It's going to the way of Susan/Mike/Ian on Desperate Housewives, I can bet. 

I guess this show really is a telenovela, just without the sillyness and the goofyness and the ironic distance it used to have and that it made it so great - at least for me. And I've watched far too many telenovelas in my life to ever be enthusiastic about one again. So, so long show, we had a nice time.

10 hours ago, LaughingOne said:

 On a related, positive note, Bridget Regan's character was just discovered alive on Grey's Anatomy, so fingers crossed that we won't be seeing Rose much next season.

LOL, I haven't seen those episodes, but it's like the biggest non-spoiler ever. :D I fully expected it ever since her character was first mentioned. Did it happen just when Meredith and Nathan finally confessed their undying love for each other? I swear the GA and JtV writers should get together and write what would be the mother of all telenovelas, they certainly have the material. 

[Simba122504]

On 5/23/2017 at 6:40 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Awww, when the narrator said that he loved Xiomara, I may have gotten a little misty-eyed. Of course, I always cry at weddings and whenever we see Michael flashbacks so I was already ready to start crying again. Does that mean the narrator is Alba's husband?

When Xiomara said in a previous episode that she wanted a big poufy fairy tale dress, I thought it was going to be a lot bigger. Her dress was not inappropriately poufy or immature for someone her age the way the wedding planners said it would be. Sheesh.

Like Jane, I am a planner. I make lists (and spreadsheets) but when I was planning my wedding, I knew I had to let go of my control freak tendencies. Our backup plan in case of rain was to send everyone to the reception site and to get married in the pouring rain, just the two of us with my best friend officiating. I was hoping it wouldn't come to that but I knew that if it did, I would be okay with that because the most important thing was that we got married then and there. Thank goodness we didn't end up with a hurricane though!

I wasn't crazy about the Petra is jealous of Jane storyline. I know it's realistic considering what happened in the past, but in Rafael's defense, it's not like he just started cheating on Petra out of the blue. Their marriage was on the rocks when he met Jane. Petra was already cheating on him and scheming against him, so yes, it sucks that he ended up with Jane but it's not like Petra was some sweet docile innocent wifey who was jilted unexpectedly.

In addition, the two things that she got visibly jealous about in this episode were ridiculous. First she saw Jane and Rafael hugging. Sorry, lady, but that's what BFFs do. Secondly, she got pissy because Rafael promised Jane that Rogelio and Xiomara could get married at the hotel. I know there was a storm and she was trying to accommodate the surge of last minute guests who were coming over from Chuck's hotel, but come on. If you promise someone they can get married, you let them get married - ESPECIALLY if there's a hurricane.

I don't blame Rafael at all for the way he responded at the end of his fight with Petra about Jane. I refuse to be with someone who is going to be blatantly jealous of someone else who will ALWAYS be a part of my life.

It's about time Anezka and Luisa teamed up. It's a telenovela so it was inevitable that two of the bad guys would come together to take down the protagonists. I know that Luisa was hurt by Rafael's outburst, but does she really expect him to forgive the woman who kidnapped his son and murdered his father? Her excuse that Rose isn't like that anymore isn't good enough for me. Great that she isn't kidnapping and murdering people NOW, but what about the people who she already kidnapped and murdered? Does she expect all to be forgiven and forgotten just because she isn't currently kidnapping and murdering people?

I feel like Rose's defense of "my face twin did it" was a stretch. If only Scott and the real Eileen were there when it happened, how would Rose know that Eileen killed Scott to protect her deal with Rose? There's assumption and then there's actually knowing. It sounds a little too convenient to me that Rose is pinning another murder on someone else.

Now that Luisa is in charge, will Jane and Alba lose their jobs at the Marbella? Ha, is Rafael going to move in with Alba and Jane? If I recall correctly, Petra owns some of the hotel, right? So does that mean Luisa can't fire her? I'm assuming that Luisa is Team Anezka so she won't be fond of Petra. Maybe instead of shooting Petra, Anezka will pretend to be Petra and work with Luisa at the Marbella.

I don't remember all the details (I think my brain blocked out some of the aftermath of Michael's shooting), but do Jane et al know that it was Rose who shot Michael? Even though Rose didn't kill Scott, can't they still charge her with some of the other stuff that they know she did?

 

 

Yeah, he was done with her at the start of S1. Petra knows if given the choice between she and Jane, Rafael will always pick Jane. Even he knows it deep down. As long as they're together in a romantic sense, she will never not be insecure about Jane and it's not like it's all in her head. It's true. I knew we were heading into a love square. Jane, Rafael, Petra, Adam. A show like this always has a love triangle/square to keep the OTP apart until TPTB put them together for good. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Simba122504
Missing "a"

[Primetimer]

And more less-than-burning questions from the season finale.

View the full article

[elle]

5 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I giggled inappropriately when they played "Come on Eileen" during that scene with Scott on the beach.

Were you still giggling when the ear worm that it is was still playing in the wee hours of the morning (and even now)? 

3 hours ago, Jillybean said:

Why was Darcy at the hotel during the wedding?

She had met with Ro and Xo to to discuss custody and got stuck there (conveniently!) by the hurricane.

Secondly, she got pissy because Rafael promised Jane that Rogelio and Xiomara could get married at the hotel. I know there was a storm and she was trying to accommodate the surge of last minute guests who were coming over from Chuck's hotel, but come on. If you promise someone they can get married, you let them get married - ESPECIALLY if there's a hurricane.

I did not think that Petra was over reacting to the news that Rafael had said that the venue needed to be kept open for the Ro/Xo wedding because he promised Jane because at that point I would have expected her to say something about the hurricane bearing down on them and the need to shelter all the people from the other hotel and that the wedding could take place somewhere else than that big room if at all!

And what hotel in Miami does not have a hurricane disaster plan?

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Awww, when the narrator said that he loved Xiomara, I may have gotten a little misty-eyed. Of course, I always cry at weddings and whenever we see Michael flashbacks so I was already ready to start crying again. Does that mean the narrator is Alba's husband?

When Xiomara said in a previous episode that she wanted a big poufy fairy tale dress, I thought it was going to be a lot bigger. Her dress was not inappropriately poufy or immature for someone her age the way the wedding planners said it would be. Sheesh.

(in reverse order)

We did not get to see Xo's original dress, or at least I did not, other than it hanging on the back of the door and then covered in mud.  I thought what the put together for her was very nice, colorful and original.

I don't think LLN is Alba's husband, at least I hope not.  It is more fun if he is not connected directly to anyone in the story for me.  Time for me to mention my Alba love!  Loved the scene with her and Michael, of course she would know about the letter.

I don't know about the rest of you but if I found a loose floor board in my living room, I would immediately fix it.  The last thing I would do is reach my hand in the gaping hole!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 minutes ago, elle said:

We did not get to see Xo's original dress, or at least I did not, other than it hanging on the back of the door and then covered in mud.

She was wearing it when Jane came home with Mateo to tell her that Rogelio needed to talk to her (to break the news about Darcy's pregnancy). She was doing her final dress fitting.

[Joana]

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

And it really sucks to admit that, because it's not like Michael was the star and he was just a supporting character,

This is what I disagree about. It probably wasn't planned, but I think Brett Dier had become a co-protagonist, and so had Yael Grobglas. It's highly likely not something that the writers had envisioned in the beginning and it was something that simply developed organically over time, but at one point those two got as much screen time as Rodriguez and Baldoni and their characters were as central and important for the story.

In retrospect, it seems clear that something happened after S2 that made them go back to the original plan, with Michael out of the picture and Petra more relegated to the background. I still think it's extremely disappointing, but of course, it's just water under the bridge now.

[Ms Lark]

Oh, crap. Jane is falling for the Teen Wolf. Not a great choice, I have never been a fan since I don't think Tyler Posey is a very good actor. Kinda cute, but that's it. Guess it's enough for some, but not me. Oh, well.

Nice seeing Michael again. I'm so sorry they killed him off.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Ms Lark said:

Oh, crap. Jane is falling for the Teen Wolf. Not a great choice, I have never been a fan since I don't think Tyler Posey is a very good actor. Kinda cute, but that's it. Guess it's enough for some, but not me. Oh, well.

Nice seeing Michael again. I'm so sorry they killed him off.

Posey is a terrible actor. His one saving grace is that he's not nearly as bad as he was during the first season of Teen Wolf. It looked like Matthew del Negro played the weather man. He also played Posey's character's dad on Teen Wolf.

I miss Michael so much. I would not welcome another go around of the Jane/Raf/Petra love triangle.

[JyDanzig]

For the season as a whole, they have done such a fabulous job of handling Michael's death.  I've seen some people decry that development as a gimmick, which I think is such a dishonest criticism.  This is a story about something real.  People find true love with partners who die too soon, and then have to figure out what to do next.  I find it remarkable how this show has managed to maintain it's fun, romantic tone in a way that also respects the enormity of Jane's loss.

And I complain about most TV deaths these days.  Either they're killing a character because their story has come to an end, and that feels false, because in reality (premature) death is not a dramatically tidy end to an arc, but a horrible halting of it mid-stream.  Or the death itself is effective -- sudden and unexpected and with a million other things going on -- but then the aftermath disappoints.  The showrunners got their dramatic death, but going forward you keep thinking how much better the stories would be were that character still alive.

Jane this season is one of the few times I've seen those competing imperatives balanced perfectly: the death itself was honest and raw, and I've been just as interested in the story of how the surviving characters move forward as I had been in watching Jane & Michael's relationship progress before.  Impressive job, show.

On last night's episode specifically: tough to live up to season 2's incredible finale, but I was happy with this.  Some of the hurricane antics were pushing the limits of believability, but it was redeemed by how well-executed it was from a production standpoint... the rain, the sounds of the storm, the candlelight.  The feel of it was wonderful, and really helped compensate for too many eye-roll moments in the script.

I LOVE the idea of going full villain with Luisa.  They've never done that angle with her before, but have now morally implicated her in so many of Rose's crimes that it's time.  I hope we see a lot of this next season (from the beginning I've wanted Yara Martinez to be upped to regular, and I'm going to keep hoping).  You can get to real tragedy with Luisa -- think of her scene in last year's finale, where she was telling Raf how hard it had been to move on from Rose, but how Susanna was showing her it was possible.  Since then she's made only terrible decisions, but there's a lot of pathos in that crazy reveal -- the person who finally lets you believe you can move on turns out to be the person you are moving on from.  It's wacky and melodramatic, but also dark and abusive.  It's easy to see how Luisa would end up concluding she really did have to hold onto this relationship no matter what, it would feel like there really could not be anyone else out there for her.

Aneszka I am ready to be done with.  I suppose the Petra cliffhanger did it's job, in that I'm in suspense because I do not want something else horrible to happen to her -- hasn't she suffered enough?  Can't something just go right for her finally?  If next season is any version of extended Petra pain out of this (several episodes of her recovering from being shot, or whatever), I am going to be so pissed off.  The Petrafied story was the worst thing this show has ever done and I am not interested in another version of it.

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Awww, when the narrator said that he loved Xiomara, I may have gotten a little misty-eyed. Of course, I always cry at weddings and whenever we see Michael flashbacks so I was already ready to start crying again. Does that mean the narrator is Alba's husband?

My immediate thought there was "is the narrator Mateo?!", followed by "though that makes the Fabian story narration kind of creepy..."

5 hours ago, swimmyfish said:

Is that really the end of the Rose/Sin Rostro storyline? I won't be sorry if it is, but it seems awfully anticlimactic.

 

5 hours ago, Joana said:

OMG, we saw Michael!!! And... that about sums up my feelings about this episode. It would be really nice, though, if Jane had in any shape or form acknowledged that the woman who KILLED her husband was now in prison, or if anyone else on the show had noticed it, but I guess you can't have it all.

I've always been convinced that Sin Rostro has to be part of the plan for the final arc of the series (have we done an infamous prison escape yet for Rose?  Since she's supposed to be based on El Chapo), and a part of that was her being responsible for Michael's death.  I thought it would have to be Jane who was ultimately the key in Rose's final downfall.  But the fact that the show does not seem to be treating Rose as the killer is throwing me.  Does that just feel too dark to handle, so they're going to ignore it and act like it was just a tragic medical accident?

But I would guess there has to be more with Rose.  "Is this the end of that story?  Feels really anticlimactic" was exactly what I said to myself when Rose seemed to have died in the hospital, and we know how that turned out...

Edited May 23, 2017 by JyDanzig

[tennisgurl]

This episode just confirms something I have suspected for quite awhile: I still love this show, and I'm sure I always will, but I will never love it like I used to, before Michael died. I am still heartbroken by Michaels death, and I don't think I will ever really be over it. I just loved Michael and I loved Jane/Michael so much, that any relationship she has will just pale in comparison, especially because I'm still sure that Raf/Jane are endgame. She might have a thing with this Adam guy, but I still know that, according to the rules of television, Raf and Jane will end up together. I just cant get interested in that.

I was really happy to see Michael flashbacks (Michael and Alba! My heart!), and some more about him and Jane. I get why they did the flashforward, and I think they handled it as well as possible, but I'm still disappointed we didn't get more flashbacks to everyone's reactions to Michaels death, and the impact it had on everyone. It feels like, in their hurry to get back to their fun, romantic tone, they just glossed over the death of a major and beloved character.

If we are still going to be stuck with Louisa, I would prefer her as a straight up villain than just a pathetic, love sick idiot. Granted, I cant imagine her ever being much of a diabolical mastermind, but at least we wont be forced to sympathize with her. Shacking up with the person who killed her father, kidnapped her nephew, and murdered Michael makes her a villain already in my book. She has no moral high ground when it comes to Rose, and while Raf might have been harsh with her, it wasn't wrong at all.

I did enjoy the wedding and Xo and Rogelio finally getting together, but I was too emotional thinking of Michael to really enjoy it.

[Joana]

1 hour ago, JyDanzig said:

I've always been convinced that Sin Rostro has to be part of the plan for the final arc of the series (have we done an infamous prison escape yet for Rose?  Since she's supposed to be based on El Chapo), and a part of that was her being responsible for Michael's death.  I thought it would have to be Jane who was ultimately the key in Rose's final downfall.  But the fact that the show does not seem to be treating Rose as the killer is throwing me.  Does that just feel too dark to handle, so they're going to ignore it and act like it was just a tragic medical accident?

I found it seriously off-putting, especially as they made it clear that his death was the result of shooting. I stopped hoping for some kind of big pay-off as it occurred to me a while ago that it's probably not where the show is going (there was this strange lack of urgency about finding Rose/Sin Rostro while Michael was alive still), but to have this connection go completely unnoticed by literally everyone really pissed me off.

I agree that Petra being Petrafied for so long was the show's biggest misstep. And already at the time I thought it was quite out of character for the show to keep it going as long as it did and I found it weird. In hindsight, they were probably trying to buy some time preparing for Michael's death.

[Ms Lark]

2 hours ago, JyDanzig said:

My immediate thought there was "is the narrator Mateo?!", followed by "though that makes the Fabian story narration kind of creepy..."

I thought that for a second myself, but Mateo probably wouldn't have such a heavy accent, either.

[bettername2come]

I'm a little disappointed there wasn't a crime related cliffhanger this season. Those usually weigh on my brain over the summer and make me want to see the series again and look forward to it. Overall I liked it, didn't love it.

Tyler Posey, I love you, but you're a mediocre actor and if you screw up this show, I'm gonna be pissed. So use this opportunity to step up your game and believably play an adult character.

[DeathQuaker]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I feel like Rose's defense of "my face twin did it" was a stretch. If only Scott and the real Eileen were there when it happened, how would Rose know that Eileen killed Scott to protect her deal with Rose? There's assumption and then there's actually knowing. It sounds a little too convenient to me that Rose is pinning another murder on someone else.

Except IIRC the Narrator confirmed that is what really happened right after she said it; Rose might not be trustworthy, but if the Narrator said that's how it really happened, it probably did (the Narrator has been misleading sometimes, but I don't think he's outright lied before).  Also, the scenes they showed weren't filmed in a dream sequency sort of way--it seemed to be them showing what really happened. How did Rose know? Well, she knows she didn't do it, so it had to have been the real Eileen. (Or possibly the real Eileen told Rose she had to kill him to cover both their tracks, which would also explain why she was so weirdly paranoid the last time she was at the Marbella.)

Tangentially, I will have "Come On Eileen" going through my head for the rest of the week. Thanks, show.
=====

Other stuff on the episode in general...

The wedding was sweet, and it was interesting that they did another big hurricane episode. I really liked Jane's arc in this episode and how she came to writing the ceremony. On the other hand, the way Ro and Xo were REALLY pushing Jane around like a pair of bridezillas (with Ro the worse of the two of course) was grating on me, as was Jane's unwillingness to express reasonable boundaries in this area, and I thought they were going to have that come to a head and I don't remember that really happening, unless it was when I got up to check my laundry or switched over to Call the Midwife for a second. (Which is possible)

Loved Alba's speech to Xo.

Michael's flashback return was lovely.

I used to like Anezka but have tired of her. In a show full of deeply complex shades of gray characters, she comes off as extremely two dimensional and cartoonish--has she ever had any actual development? People grow and change and devolve on this show all the time and she's always just exactly the same. If she stays and actually has a real arc, that might be worth seeing. If she's still a cartoon, they need to figure out something else.

The relationship stuff is getting dizzying. I'd actually like to have seen Raf and Petra be in a real relationship for a bit before it went all wonky--it was way too quick that they were just truly acknowledging their feelings last week and seeming like they were getting ready for a longer story and then that falls apart. Now Jane with the returning feelings but then with the old ex (who brought Michael's letter). I get that keeping everyone in a romance spin keeps up the drama but gah.

I have almost zero interest in Darcy's return.  Plenty of story could have come from just Xo and Ro truly learning to live married life together, and throwing her in for baby drama feels cheap and lazy, and the writers can do better than that when they try.

On Luisa: I'm going to play devil's advocate for her. Which, as the terminology describes, is not to excuse or defend her actions, but to offer an alternate point of view on her situation: I recall in Season 1, they made frequent references to Luisa supporting or protecting her brother when he was in his rakish playboy days (I accidentally typed "playbody" at first, interpret as you will), and that the reason he had backed up her malpractice insurance was in part because he owed her more than that for how she was there for him. Luisa has also defended him from his father, who was IIRC never nice to him save maybe toward the end of that season--she sided with him on several arguments. She has generally shown genuine love and support for him, and whenever she has argued with or defied Rose, it has been for Rafael's sake (including her insistence upon seeing him when she believed he had cancer). She was clearly heartbroken and in pain when she believed he had cancer both in this episode and the prior one, and was willing to leave Rose to go care for him (they only fell into the trap because Rose chose to go with Luisa. Had Rose decided to stay while Luisa went the whole scenario would interestingly have been very different.).   AND YET: when Luisa started relapsing and losing it, Rafael largely wrote her off as a whacko and has never seemed to take anything but cursory interest in her recovery; when she tried to tell everyone about her and Rose's relationship, he sided WITH Rose and helped ship Luisa off to the asylum when she was telling the truth. He's generally never believed her even when she's told the truth (and I'm not sure she's really ever lied to him, but I'm not doing a rewatch to check) or supported her during her many rough times. He's never let her know his children. ((Good reasons why, but again we're playing devil's advocate) And then he outright used her love for him against her by making her believe he was dying to try to pull her into a trap. AND YES: Rose killed her father, who was also an evil criminal planning to run away to Croatia, who had written Raf out of his will, who had generally treated both Luisa and Raf horribly, and who generally was an all around asshat. No tears to be shed over him, related to anyone or not (and the only person he IS actually related to is Luisa, and it's her right to forgive his murderer or not). And Rose may not have changed personality wise, but all evidence the show provides seems to be that she has indeed kept her promise to Luisa and not killed anyone since their deal made on the submarine. (I love that this show leads me to write sentences like that.) Soooooooo.... from looking at it that way, I can see why Luisa would finally turn against the not-actually-brother who has generally seen her as a useless whackjob and never appreciated her support (save for covering her malpractice insurance) and made her believe he was DYING just so he could have her girlfriend arrested for a murder it turns out she didn't commit. (Even if she committed lots of other murders.) And again, all this is to say... I can see where this development comes from. Yes, I am fully aware she is the girlfriend of a brainmeltingly gorgeous horrible murdering sociopath. Yes, I am fully aware she makes terrible, terrible, terrible decisions and often has failed to fully bear the consequences or be accountable. And I am NOT defending anything on those notes--you can't. Just noting it's way more complicated than that.  And this is still an interesting path... that could make her a fascinating villain if done right. (And you don't have to like the villain anyway, it's what they're there for.)

But... IF DONE RIGHT. The whole problem with Luisa is that she shows up, says a couple things, then disappears and we forget about her. Half of her story is told in exposition rather than shown, which is massively problematic. Her most recent appearances have been her and Rose having the same argument over and over and over again... up until this episode. I am all for Luisa being a villain and being around... but only if she's really around and given the development and arc needed to really make this story work. If she just keeps disappearing with an arc that comes and goes in fits and starts, what's the point? Writers, you can do so well on this when you try. Don't fail us.

This whole season's been a bit bumpy compared to the first two seasons and I'm hoping for a smoother ride next year. Sorry for babbling so much.

[NeenerNeener]

8 hours ago, elle said:

Were you still giggling when the ear worm that it is was still playing in the wee hours of the morning (and even now)? 

I didn't actually hear it until 5:30 this morning, and it was finally pushed out of my head by an Adele song on my way to work an hour later. But yeah, that is still a pernicious little tune, even 40+ years after it was written.

I still can't believe they used it in that particular scene since we all knew what was about to happen to Scott.

I'm having a hard time believing that Rafael and Petra are "falling back in love" when at the start of Season 1 they pretty much laid out that she married him for his money and he married her as a "screw you" to his father's right hand man, her previous fiance.

Edited May 24, 2017 by NeenerNeener

[Joana]

25 minutes ago, DeathQuaker said:

On the other hand, the way Ro and Xo were REALLY pushing Jane around like a pair of bridezillas (with Ro the worse of the two of course) was grating on me, as was Jane's unwillingness to express reasonable boundaries in this area, and I thought they were going to have that come to a head and I don't remember that really happening, unless it was when I got up to check my laundry or switched over to Call the Midwife for a second. (Which is possible)

 

That's another thing that's been turning me off this show big time lately. The relationship between the three of them seems somehat... incestuous, for lack of better word. I definitely don't mean anything sexual by that (*shudders*), it's just that they totally lack any boundaries and their dynamics are often not just parents-children inappropriate, but inappropriate full stop. I get that some families are tighter than others, but there's tight and then there's suffocating. They should seriously expand their social circles a little. That's another place where Michael's death has left a void - we all remember Brogelios, but he also had a very sweet relationship with Xiomara. Now that's gone and they really haven't replaced it with anything. It almost makes me glad that Darcy is back because at least it means that Xioamara will have to deal with someone outside her immediate family.

12 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

I'm having a hard time believing that Rafael and Petra are "falling back in love" when at the start of Season 1 they pretty much laid out that she married him for his money and he married her as a "screw you" to his father's right hand man, her previous fiance.

Yeah, but it was also established that they had a good time together and cared for each other for a while, at least. And I can totally buy that - those two are a lot alike and I can see how it would be something that both draws them together and drifts them apart. Exploring that would be interesting, but it's all moot now because it's obvious the writers were never serious about putting them back together to begin with.

[Irlandesa]

9 hours ago, Joana said:

This is what I disagree about. It probably wasn't planned, but I think Brett Dier had become a co-protagonist, and so had Yael Grobglas. It's highly likely not something that the writers had envisioned in the beginning and it was something that simply developed organically over time, but at one point those two got as much screen time as Rodriguez and Baldoni and their characters were as central and important for the story.

In retrospect, it seems clear that something happened after S2 that made them go back to the original plan, with Michael out of the picture and Petra more relegated to the background. I still think it's extremely disappointing, but of course, it's just water under the bridge now.

Except unlike Petra and Rafael, the show didn't really follow him in other romantic relationships or familial relationships.  His airtime seemed to largely correlate with his relationship status with Jane.  So when they geared up to the wedding and post-wedding, his airtime did spike.  But given the fact that they never built him out, I don't think the plans for him ever changed.  The creator admitted he stayed around longer than originally intended and they did question whether or not they were doing the right thing, but that was largely out of affection for the actor than story purposes.

1 hour ago, DeathQuaker said:

On Luisa: I'm going to play devil's advocate for her.

I'm going to respond to your whole post but I deleted most of it for space.  (But people should read it to know what I'm responding to.)  My recollection is a bit different.  They did having a loving relationship.  I have no doubt that Luisa did support Raf at times.  But they also largely implied that, as an alcoholic, Luisa had let Rafael down quite a few times to the point that it was really difficult for him to trust her.

12 hours ago, swimmyfish said:

Also, while Rafael has many legitimate reasons to be angry at Luisa over her continued relationship with Rose, saying that she was crazy, 'just like her mother' was completely uncalled for.

It was harsh...but only on Luisa's mother whose mental illness, if I recall correctly, was rather innocent.  It did not involve running off with a woman who ran a drug operation, killed her spouse/lover's father, was responsible for the death of a cop and other crimes.

1 hour ago, NeenerNeener said:

I'm having a hard time believing that Rafael and Petra are "falling back in love" when at the start of Season 1 they pretty much laid out that she married him for his money and he married her as a "screw you" to his father's right hand man, her previous fiance.

The post-marriage stuff is what is making it difficult for me.  I think Jane and Raf are end game. I've believed that since the first episode, believed it during Jane's engagement and marriage and believe it now.  However, I don't think Raf and Petra are quite done.  I think they were "over" in this episode just long enough to make viewers wonder if Jane would approach Raf.  I see it as similar to last week's door fake out.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

that is still a pernicious little tune, even 40+ years after it was written.

It's old but not quite that old! It was released on June 25, 1982, so it will be 35 years old next month :)

[NeenerNeener]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It's old but not quite that old! It was released on June 25, 1982, so it will be 35 years old next month :)

Wow, for some reason I associate that song with high school, and I was well out of high school by 1982. Prince, The Psychedelic Furs and Dexys Midnight Runners were all getting air play at the same time?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

Wow, for some reason I associate that song with high school, and I was well out of high school by 1982. Prince, The Psychedelic Furs and Dexys Midnight Runners were all getting air play at the same time?

Hey, the 80s were a weird time!

[djinn]

On May 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, LaughingOne said:

I feel like this is the first time that they're playing Luisa as full-on villain.  It's always been poor, confused, love-addicted Luisa.

I agree. I think it's time for Rose to step aside and Luisa to step up as the villain. I can't imagine why she would be with Rose or even defend her, after everything that Rose has done.

On May 23, 2017 at 2:53 AM, Irlandesa said:

I thought Michael's scenes lacked the energy that his usually had

In a way, it was perhaps a stylistic choice. This was Jane saying her final goodbyes to Michael; she will truly move on in the next season. So it seemed to me to be a memory, that was just starting to fade a bit, lose some color. Very realistic, actually.

 

I was so relieved and happy that Xo and Ro got married. And it turned out to be a very lovely wedding, with true, raw emotions. Both Xo AND Ro will get their wishes too; no more babies for Xo, but a new baby for Ro. Happy ending for these two!

[Last Time Lord]

On 5/22/2017 at 11:32 PM, Last Time Lord said:

So, I've never seen this show, before tonight. I usually DVR Supergirl, but I watched it live, tonight, and I kept on watching after it ended, and I watched this episode, and well, let's just say I'm now on episode 3 on Netflix.

So, update to this, if that is allowed.

On season 2, now.  Man, you guys were not kidding about this show.

[AnushkaR]

On 5/23/2017 at 10:52 PM, Irlandesa said:

Except unlike Petra and Rafael, the show didn't really follow him in other romantic relationships or familial relationships.  His airtime seemed to largely correlate with his relationship status with Jane.  So when they geared up to the wedding and post-wedding, his airtime did spike.  But given the fact that they never built him out, I don't think the plans for him ever changed. 

I agree. To me his parents almost felt like an afterthought. Even there it seemed like they were created for Jane not him. Michael had no story with them. 

[Irlandesa]

24 minutes ago, AnushkaR said:

To me his parents almost felt like an afterthought.

I don't think they were an afterthought but I do agree with your point that they were created for Jane.  They were.  Or, at the very least, as something Jane and Michael had to face. 

[AudienceofOne]

On 23/05/2017 at 7:33 PM, NeenerNeener said:

I giggled inappropriately when they played "Come on Eileen" during that scene with Scott on the beach.

Giggled? I roared with laughter. I think they named her Eileen just so they could use that song.

[Bouffe]

Oh, Luisa's turning full on villain! I might get on board with that, as long as she is not the same old love sick mess we have seen so far. It was fun for a while but now it just drags. Same with Rose...

The whole wedding fiasco was funny and I loved how it turned out in the end. 

Alba screaming to Xo how much she loves her was an awesome, powerful scene.

Jane/Raf = loved it. 

I enjoyed the Michael flashbacks with Alba. It was very sweet!

Eileen + song + dead Scott = me LMAO!!!

[betsyboo]

15 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

So, update to this, if that is allowed.

On season 2, now.  Man, you guys were not kidding about this show.

welcome aboard! I watched S 1 and most of 2 on vacation at Christmas - 34 eps in 8 days! lolol

[elle]

On 5/23/2017 at 9:34 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

She was wearing it when Jane came home with Mateo to tell her that Rogelio needed to talk to her (to break the news about Darcy's pregnancy). She was doing her final dress fitting.

Now I wish I had seen it as well as having the original wedding happening without a missed dove.  It would have been nice to have someone tell Jean Luc that their opinions were not heeded nor needed.

[Last Time Lord]

I am now 100% caught up on the show, and this finale, which was good when I watched it blind became so much more when I watched it with the context of the full series.

[betsyboo]

12 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

I am now 100% caught up on the show, and this finale, which was good when I watched it blind became so much more when I watched it with the context of the full series.

Wow! I can't believe you finished that fast! Did it live up the promise delivered in the finale you saw first??

[Last Time Lord]

9 minutes ago, betsyboo said:

Wow! I can't believe you finished that fast! Did it live up the promise delivered in the finale you saw first??

Oh, yeah. And then some.