S01.E08: Episode 8

[OtterMommy]

Quote

 After Rasselas' revelation, Lydia can put everything in place to take down Margaret Wells once and for all. But she'll need Cunliffe's help and her discovery that Emily has escaped could bring her plans crashing down. If Cunliffe has now become her enemy, Lydia must act quickly to deal with the threat. Which of them can earn the Spartans' trust? Harriet and North unite in one final attempt to steal her children back from Benjamin Lennox. Lucy learns a new skill which could change her future. Will Margaret make a decision for Fanny that's popular in the house? 

[kieyra]

Someone mentioned in the ep 7 thread that Wikipedia has spoilers up for episode 8. I couldn't resist and had a look. Warning, the spoilers do look plausible. I wonder how someone got ahold of the info if it's real. I'm at work so I don't want to check and see if the episode got leaked/torrented (it does air a few days earlier in the UK, but even that hasn't happened yet). 

[dmc]

15 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Someone mentioned in the ep 7 thread that Wikipedia has spoilers up for episode 8. I couldn't resist and had a look. Warning, the spoilers do look plausible. I wonder how someone got ahold of the info if it's real. I'm at work so I don't want to check and see if the episode got leaked/torrented (it does air a few days earlier in the UK, but even that hasn't happened yet). 

Thanks this wasn't here when I posted:)

Edited May 12, 2017 by dmc

[JennyExiled]

I can't wait to see how this wraps up! Is it Wednesday yet? :) 

[dmc]

So I like this series but the writing was stronger the first half of it...it veered toward soap opera the last half...not that I don't love a good soap opera but it needs to decide what it's going to be a drama or a period gossip girl.  I am fine with either but not both. 

 

Well...I guess I am glad that Charlotte isn't really with Mrs. Quigley and does in fact plan to help her mother.  Going to be honest, I wasn't fond of the Marney story line because it was poorly written and not well developed...it was like that talked twice and then all of sudden star crossed lovers..it needed more build up than that.  I was glad that Charlotte had Lady Caroline speak for Marney.  If you didn't catch Charlotte watching Marney kiss Lady Caroline on the cheek...why do I have a feeling next season Marney may be with Lady Caroline...
 

Oh Haxby...the writing fell short for this one as well.  He was written complicated and then veered into the Marvel villain category...since when is Haxby loyal to Sir George...he seemed to hate him the whole season.  Now all of sudden George is dead and everything gets better for him but he has to see justice for George...that makes NO sense...

 

Lucy will be more into dominating customers like Mary...she had a lot rage in there. Lucy doesn't annoy me like everyone else...but her writing is inconsistent as well. 

 

Thank God Amelia is okay.

Edited May 17, 2017 by dmc

[Elivesta29]

Lucy never annoyed me - I'm pretty tolerant of characters though. I just agree that the writing was a bit off for her. I agree that the first few episodes were the strongest. I enjoyed episode 8 though, they did wrap things up and set up stories for the next season. I am glad they did because Margaret almost lost everything and Lucy and Charlotte both seemed like they weren't going to last much longer in the family business. Which would have been odd as girls like Lucy and Charlotte hardly had better option(as was discussed in previous episode threads). Charlotte now has an end goal - which is really something she needed,as her hedonistic harlot lifestyle was clearly not working for her anymore. 

Lucy pretty much had to come to some sort of place where she could find some control in her life. Even just being able to say out loud what she felt was a big stepping stone. An innocent faced dominatrix thing could work for her. 

[dmc]

20 minutes ago, Elivesta29 said:

Lucy never annoyed me - I'm pretty tolerant of characters though. I just agree that the writing was a bit off for her. I agree that the first few episodes were the strongest. I enjoyed episode 8 though, they did wrap things up and set up stories for the next season. I am glad they did because Margaret almost lost everything and Lucy and Charlotte both seemed like they weren't going to last much longer in the family business. Which would have been odd as girls like Lucy and Charlotte hardly had better option(as was discussed in previous episode threads). Charlotte now has an end goal - which is really something she needed,as her hedonistic harlot lifestyle was clearly not working for her anymore. 

Lucy pretty much had to come to some sort of place where she could find some control in her life. Even just being able to say out loud what she felt was a big stepping stone. An innocent faced dominatrix thing could work for her. 

Same I also tolerant of characters.  I think most of the issues with Lucy people have are actually writing issues not the actual character ones.  She hasn't been consistently written.  So you kind of have to guess why she is one way one episode and another way another episode. 

[rollacoaster]

Oh! I am on FIRE with longing for season two! So many stories to catch up with!

Lucy: Such loathing for the culls! I'm so glad that she has an outlet for her rage and disgust. Loved her cocky attitude at the end. During the training scene, her comment, "I'll pound you....to tripe!" gave me chills. Abused people often repeat the words used to abuse them.

Margaret: Ironic that she was able to do for the Scanwell girl what she couldn't do for her own daughters. Nice moment of tenderness at the end with Fanny.

Emily Rose: Saucy wench! She never doubted her own worth. She and Charles, what a match! Nice to see him show some backbone with his mother. Emily will continue the theme of him being subservient to strong women. Maybe she will appreciate him...but not too much ;).

Harriet: She's gonna be a spot of trouble for Margaret next season.

Charlotte: Dressed all in white frills, like a bride. Being wedded into a new life with renewed purpose. Loved Caroline's reason for agreeing to help Charlotte with Marney. Total random thought: This actress often plays characters that end up in romantic entanglements with Irishmen.

I love this show so much! The acting, the writing, the costumes, even the music. It has all been so compelling. And, one of the best parts is coming here to see everyone's thoughts on it. :)

[dmc]

1 minute ago, rollacoaster said:

Oh! I am on FIRE with longing for season two! So many stories to catch up with!

Lucy: Such loathing for the culls! I'm so glad that she has an outlet for her rage and disgust. Loved her cocky attitude at the end. During the training scene, her comment, "I'll pound you....to tripe!" gave me chills. Abused people often repeat the words used to abuse them.

Margaret: Ironic that she was able to do for the Scanwell girl what she couldn't do for her own daughters. Nice moment of tenderness at the end with Fanny.

Emily Rose: Saucy wench! She never doubted her own worth. She and Charles, what a match! Nice to see him show some backbone with his mother. Emily will continue the theme of him being subservient to strong women. Maybe she will appreciate him...but not too much ;).

Harriet: She's gonna be a spot of trouble for Margaret next season.

Charlotte: Dressed all in white frills, like a bride. Being wedded into a new life with renewed purpose. Loved Caroline's reason for agreeing to help Charlotte with Marney. Total random thought: This actress often plays characters that end up in romantic entanglements with Irishmen.

I love this show so much! The acting, the writing, the costumes, even the music. It has all been so compelling. And, one of the best parts is coming here to see everyone's thoughts on it. :)

Not random at all I think Lady Caroline and Marney too next season

[HeySandyStrange]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

Not random at all I think Lady Caroline and Marney too next season

I wouldn't mind, Lady Caroline could use a real palate cleanser after having to deal so long with her fool of a husband for so long. On a shallow note, how freaking gorgeous is Lady Caroline's actress?! I got a better look at her this time and she is stunning. And as I thought, very happy to be free and in control of her money. I hope we see her next season. Maybe Marney can be her new Haxby and raise himself up a little more in the world.

I'm glad Harriet got her kids back without having to use any of Margaret's money, but it seemed almost too easy. I'm also happy that William is back, but I'm not feeling the potential love triangle they are setting up between him, Margaret, and Harriet. Their relationship isn't perfect but I like William and Margaret together and I don't want any of the characters to be bogged down in a love triangle.

So Fanny can keep her baby? That is sweet, but I'm a little sad that she was born a girl. Hate to think she will probably grow up and forced into the role of Harlot like Margaret's children.

I was surprised Lucy is going to be a dominatrix. I sort of thought she would go into acting/entertaining, what with her singing and piano playing. I don't really see her as a dominatrix, but whatever gives her some control, I guess.

Glad nothing happened to Amelia, I would've been so pissed if Margaret went through with it.

[OtterMommy]

Damn it, there had better be a season 2!!!

I loved this episode...I made sure not to follow any spoilers other than the official synopsis and it did NOT go the way I had thought it would!  The only part I found unbelievable was that Caroline could just talk to someone and get the Irish guy released.  I mean, had it been Haxby, who was at least sort of a witness, I could understand it--but not a woman who wasn't within miles of the events of that night.

I'm going to be very interested to see *three* dueling brothels if we get another season.  I think Emily Lacy will be quite the force to be dealt with in that case, plus it will put Lydia in quite the cross hairs and she will be on the defensive.

I was sick to my stomach when I thought that Margaret was going to sacrifice Amelia.  I mean, Margaret is by no means a  heroine, but I've always felt that she at least leans to the good.  So, I was GREATLY relieved when she backed out of it (but I will say that I found that whole thing a little hard to believe, but at least it was better than Margaret giving Amelia up to be murdered).

All in all, I found it a more than fitting season finale for what has become one my favorite new shows.

[dmc]

57 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Damn it, there had better be a season 2!!!

I loved this episode...I made sure not to follow any spoilers other than the official synopsis and it did NOT go the way I had thought it would!  The only part I found unbelievable was that Caroline could just talk to someone and get the Irish guy released.  I mean, had it been Haxby, who was at least sort of a witness, I could understand it--but not a woman who wasn't within miles of the events of that night.

I'm going to be very interested to see *three* dueling brothels if we get another season.  I think Emily Lacy will be quite the force to be dealt with in that case, plus it will put Lydia in quite the cross hairs and she will be on the defensive.

I was sick to my stomach when I thought that Margaret was going to sacrifice Amelia.  I mean, Margaret is by no means a  heroine, but I've always felt that she at least leans to the good.  So, I was GREATLY relieved when she backed out of it (but I will say that I found that whole thing a little hard to believe, but at least it was better than Margaret giving Amelia up to be murdered).

All in all, I found it a more than fitting season finale for what has become one my favorite new shows.

Yeah this was weird maybe because Haxby told Lady Caroline he lied so she was a witness to that.

[Riplet68]

Found that very satisfying!  

my hopes for season two:

charlotte let's her mom in on what she's doing

caroline gets her some with Irish dude

no triangle between Margaret and harriet

we see funny shenanigans with Emily and dude

charlotte has some awesome plans for quigley

Distracted by handmaids tale right now

[rollacoaster]

3 hours ago, dmc said:

Not random at all I think Lady Caroline and Marney too next season

The actress that plays Caroline is so gorgeous! She has the perfect lovely face for these period costume pieces. I'd be down for her to enjoy Marney, and it could be beneficial for him, too.  

The actress I was referring to as ending up with Irish love interests was the actress playing Charlotte, Jessica Brown Findlay, who played Lady Sybil on Downton Abbey.  She married an Irish man on that show, and then had Marney on this show.  

[dmc]

33 minutes ago, rollacoaster said:

The actress that plays Caroline is so gorgeous! She has the perfect lovely face for these period costume pieces. I'd be down for her to enjoy Marney, and it could be beneficial for him, too.  

The actress I was referring to as ending up with Irish love interests was the actress playing Charlotte, Jessica Brown Findlay, who played Lady Sybil on Downton Abbey.  She married an Irish man on that show, and then had Marney on this show.  

Oh :) I see 

 

You're right she does always end up with Irish people.  I thought you meant lady Caroline.

[kieyra]

Wow, I have to say that I never expected neat resolutions to the absolute Armageddon of last week. No, I am not complaining--I expected the finale to be hugely depressing, and frankly I watch enough depressing shows as it is.

Betsey and her cull even got to have sex in a bed instead of up against a wall! 

Was that longing that Harriet showed for Mr. North? Sign of trouble ahead?

(I agree we NEED a second season now. Last week I was here posting that I didn't see how they could do a second season--because I expected this week to end in disaster and death.)

Someone here pointed out in an earlier thread that Lucy should be a dominatrix. Good call. And good catch by Nancy, realizing that Lucy's disgust and anger are their own product to be sold.

Re: Lady Caroline ... I called out the actress's looks in her first episode. She looks like a china doll.

(Everyone on the show is interesting to look at, which is a kind of casting I always love. I don't mean everyone has to be pretty, I just mean interesting-looking. And those same people must have cast the utterly slappable faces of Lord Howard and Joffrey Jr.)

I like that the show didn't let Quigley off the hook as villain--midway through I saw the possible takedown of Cunliffe coming through the women working together, but I thought Lydia might get in on the setup as some sort of sisterhood/redemption arc. I'm glad the show isn't going to forget she cooperated in kidnapping, rape and murder. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by kieyra

[OtterMommy]

2 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Was that longing that Harriet showed for Mr. North? Sign of trouble ahead?. 

I'm not sure how I feel about that, honestly.  Personally, I'm not usually a fan of love triangles as they are so rarely done well (and, when they are done well, they are devastating).  I also feel that, going into a supposed 2nd season, we already have A LOT going on and a North/Harriet/Margaret triangle would be just a bit too much--I'm far more interested in the Margaret/Lydia/Emily professional triangle.

However, I can also see how Harriet having some sort of feelings towards North would be natural.  He was kind to her and helped her get the one thing she ever wanted.  In fact, he was probably the only man who had ever done anything for her without expecting anything in return.  I think, instead of a triangle, it would be more realistic to have Harriet have unrequited feelings for North (which I still think would be too much, but at least it wouldn't "clutter" Margaret's story as much).

[stanleyk]

On 5/17/2017 at 8:12 AM, dmc said:

So I like this series but the writing was stronger the first half of it...it veered toward soap opera the last half

This is where the show kind of fell down for me. I started out loving it, and I still did enjoy it through the series, but I was wanting more "day in the life" realism about life for these women at this time. And then the melodrama ticked way, way up: murders and cover-ups and more murders and shadowy high-powered rings of rapist/murderers. It all got a bit silly and it moved far away from where I thought the show was starting out: how this world worked, how the women in it did what they could to protect themselves and each other. I was more interested in that. 

On a tiny nitpick, I'm usually good at suspending disbelief, but I did have to question how Fallon planned to get away with murdering Cunliffe - the coachman had to either have known he was already in the carriage or have, you know...noticed someone getting in if they didn't come together. I guess he could pay him off or whatever, but that detail for some reason was annoying me.

I did like the idea of turning Lucy into a dominatrix - it might make her a little more interesting. I found her (or the writing for her) to be inconsistent and annoying, so this development could work for me. And I liked getting Lucy into Quigley's house with vengeance on her mind and ditching the ill-developed Marney character and romance.

And are we going to get a third house, run by Emily Lacey and Son Quigley? Yes please!

19 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I wouldn't mind, Lady Caroline could use a real palate cleanser after having to deal so long with her fool of a husband for so long.

She may be the new heroine of the show, as the only character we've seen who is both pragmatic and strongly moral. Though of course with her wealth and standing, she has the privilege to be moral without sacrifice, which someone in Margaret's position arguably does not. While Margaret certainly has a sense of right and wrong, her position (and her need to protect herself and her children) makes her choices a little harder than Caroline's.

19 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

 I mean, had it been Haxby, who was at least sort of a witness, I could understand it--but not a woman who wasn't within miles of the events of that night.

I believe her testimony, though, was not about what happened that night, but about the fact that Haxby confessed to lying in order to get Charlotte and Marney arrested. So - if Haxby's testimony were all that tied Marney to the murder - I can see how her stating that he admitted he'd made it up would lead to Marney's release.

[dmc]

4 minutes ago, stanleyk said:

This is where the show kind of fell down for me. I started out loving it, and I still did enjoy it through the series, but I was wanting more "day in the life" realism about life for these women at this time. And then the melodrama ticked way, way up: murders and cover-ups and more murders and shadowy high-powered rings of rapist/murderers. It all got a bit silly and it moved far away from where I thought the show was starting out: how this world worked, how the women in it did what they could to protect themselves and each other. I was more interested in that. 

On a tiny nitpick, I'm usually good at suspending disbelief, but I did have to question how Fallon planned to get away with murdering Cunliffe - the coachman had to either have known he was already in the carriage or have, you know...noticed someone getting in if they didn't come together. I guess he could pay him off or whatever, but that detail for some reason was annoying me.

I did like the idea of turning Lucy into a dominatrix - it might make her a little more interesting. I found her (or the writing for her) to be inconsistent and annoying, so this development could work for me. And I liked getting Lucy into Quigley's house with vengeance on her mind and ditching the ill-developed Marney character and romance.

And are we going to get a third house, run by Emily Lacey and Son Quigley? Yes please!

She may be the new heroine of the show, as the only character we've seen who is both pragmatic and strongly moral. Though of course with her wealth and standing, she has the privilege to be moral without sacrifice, which someone in Margaret's position arguably does not. While Margaret certainly has a sense of right and wrong, her position (and her need to protect herself and her children) makes her choices a little harder than Caroline's.

I believe her testimony, though, was not about what happened that night, but about the fact that Haxby confessed to lying in order to get Charlotte and Marney arrested. So - if Haxby's testimony were all that tied Marney to the murder - I can see how her stating that he admitted he'd made it up would lead to Marney's release.

Yes still liked it a lot but the first half and the second half were two different shows. We go from Lucy silent carriage ride home from the Reptons to...the finale which was just crazy off the hook so much happened. I prefer the first half and I think a lot of things that were being explored or were complex were just kind of dropped.  I would have preferred some characters to be more developed as well.  All and All I want to see it return but not sure which version will return.

[tennisgurl]

I do think the first half was stronger in writing (I'm more interested in the period and the characters than in the drama), but I still liked the more melodramatic second half, and I thought this was a strong ending. I'm super excited to see season 2! We have lots of good set up for a kick ass season.

I love Emily Lacey, she's such a saucy harlot. I love how she just pushed her way into Mrs. Quigley's house and just takes over instantly. She's not the nicest person, but she is a scrappy survivor, and I love seeing her fight to move up in the world. And I'm kind of shipping her and Charles, as weird as it is. I don't know if she actually gives much of a crap about him, but I think she could at least learn to like or appreciate him, and he clearly gets heart eyes over her. Of course he hooks up with a strong willed harlot, just as he finally breaks away from his mom, a strong willed harlot. I'm looking forward to them running their own brothel together.

I'm already calling Marney becoming Lady Caroline's new piece on the side, or her new Haxby. Lord knows he's better company. Lady Caroline is so gorgeous, she really looks perfect for the time period. Its too bad Charlotte wasn't interested in being her ally, Lady Caroline seems like a pretty awesome woman.

Thank God Amelia is alright! I know that Margaret is a rather morally ambiguous character, but selling out poor, sweet Amelia to be raped and god knows what else is a huge line to cross. Glad she couldn't bring herself to go through with it. Then she put out the harlot Bat Signal, and that creep got all kinds of dead. Amelia's mom has really chilled out since the first episode, even giving a more Amelia style sermon about Gods forgiveness. Didn't see that coming. And Amelia is made of pretty strong stuff, using herself as bait. I hope she gets a happy ending with her girlfriend.

I'm ready for Lucy to become a more empowered dominatrix, and for Charlotte to devote her time to taking down Mrs. Quigley. One of the biggest issue in the second half of the season was the daughters didn't really have much direction in their plots, with Charlotte in her not super developed romance, and Lucy in full PTSD all the time. Hopefully this gets them more to do.

[snowwhyte]

I thought this was a great season finale. Maybe things were resolved a bit too neatly but if there isn't a second season I am ok with how it ended. 

I suggested earlier that Emily Lacey might become a dominatrix because of her strong personality and disdain for people. I am glad that Lucy is working through some of her anger but I don't think that anger is necessarily a good thing in a dominatrix. She has already stabbed someone, I worry that she might go too far. I would think being a dominatrix would require her to be even more perceptive as she needs to judge the limits of her customers. We've seen that she has a poor ability to read people. I'm hoping for the best though and it was nice to see Nancy giving her the guidance and support she has been lacking until now.

I was glad to see that Marney was actually a pretty decent guy after all. I suggested it when he was introduced but if he isn't going to be with Charlotte I would like him to show lady Caroline a good time. She had no particular reason to help Charlotte or Marney but she did it because it was the right thing to do. Let her enjoy her widowhood.

They removed any doubt about Lord Fallon being a bad guy. He was definitely involved with the murdering rapists club and he killed Cunliffe. Possibly he'll be next season's main villain as I doubt he would be willing to accept his offer for Lucy being rejected. 

On an unrelated topic, there's a new British historical drama called Jamestown which focuses on the lives of three early female settlers in America. It's not available in the US but for those Brits looking for a replacement show now Harlots has finished its on Sky. 

[dleighg]

23 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I'm glad Harriet got her kids back without having to use any of Margaret's money, but it seemed almost too easy.

I have read conflicting things about freedom in England for "imported" slaves at that time, and thought that perhaps the horrible American might not have won his case going before a court here, hence he was willing to just give up.

[snowwhyte]

I thought he was probably unwilling to take on William and he didn't seem to have much support from the people in the tavern so he let them go. I wouldn't be surprised if he went to court to try to get them back but hopefully the show allows that to be the end of the matter.

[dleighg]

So no one is going to hang for Sir Howard? The matter will just drop and they'll put it down to thieves?

[dmc]

5 minutes ago, dleighg said:

So no one is going to hang for Sir Howard? The matter will just drop and they'll put it down to thieves?

Honestly this was my favorite part of the finale when Charlotte is like I guess it was just villains and lady Caroline is like Yep I'm free

[ciprus]

I can't pinpoint why, but I felt this finale was a bit anticlimactic. Things resolved too easily. I felt like it would have benefitted from a longer season, maybe even just 10 episodes to resolve everything. I didn't buy that no one is going down for the murder of Sir George.

I'm so happy it seems like they're going for a second season, since I really love the vibe of this show. I love that everyone is morally grey in some way. Though I agree with everyone who said that the first half was decidedly better written. 

So glad Margaret didn't have Amelia killed. I didn't think she would, but I wasn't sure how desperate she was. 

Have anyone heard anything about the ratings for the show? Is it heading for renewal? It seems like it's been flying under the radar, I just happened to stumble over it myself.

[dleighg]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

Honestly this was my favorite part of the finale when Charlotte is like I guess it was just villains and lady Caroline is like Yep I'm free

So for those with more understanding of these times than I have: is she fundamentally in a better place being a widow of a (what? peer? whatever he was) than as an unmarried maid of good fortune? Is this a better outcome for her than never having married in the first place? Is she in control of her money now, or does it got back to her father or brother?

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, dleighg said:

So for those with more understanding of these times than I have: is she fundamentally in a better place being a widow of a (what? peer? whatever he was) than as an unmarried maid of good fortune? Is this a better outcome for her than never having married in the first place? Is she in control of her money now, or does it got back to her father or brother?

As a widow, she does have a modicum of independence she wouldn't have had as a never married woman.  Mostly, she is less under the thumb of her father (or male guardian).  She would also have any money her husband brought into the marriage, although it sounds like she had all the money to begin with.  I guess the fact that her husband would no longer be frittering away her fortune is a good thing for her.  She would also have more of a say (but not "a say") in who she remarries.

[dmc]

29 minutes ago, dleighg said:

So for those with more understanding of these times than I have: is she fundamentally in a better place being a widow of a (what? peer? whatever he was) than as an unmarried maid of good fortune? Is this a better outcome for her than never having married in the first place? Is she in control of her money now, or does it got back to her father or brother?

Also how much money is there I know she had a fortune but wasn't Howard like running through it...she fired Haxby but he would probably know

Edited May 18, 2017 by dmc

[lonestar]

Is Lucy going to be a dominatrix now?

[Sienna]

On 5/18/2017 at 3:54 PM, snowwhyte said:

 

I would think being a dominatrix would require her to be even more perceptive as she needs to judge the limits of her customers. We've seen that she has a poor ability to read people.

 

^Completely agree.

I'm really hoping that scene was just Nancy teaching Lucy how to work out her demons. Maybe Lucy has it in her to be a Domme someday, but I don't think she's reached that stage of maturity yet. I did love the interaction between them though, and it cemented Nancy as my favorite character.

[JennyExiled]

On 5/18/2017 at 6:12 PM, OtterMommy said:

As a widow, she does have a modicum of independence she wouldn't have had as a never married woman.

But wouldn't the bulk of the money go to Sir George's next male heir? We know they didn't have a child. Maybe I've just been watching too much Downton Abbey, but I wouldn't think the money would just go to the wife. It seems so unlikely. Perhaps a small allowance. Of course if her family is well off, they could help her any way they choose. I'm sure she's glad to be free of Sir George regardless!    

The resolutions might have been a bit too tidy (getting Harriet's children back was really just too easy), but I loved the story lines set up for a possible second season. Overall I was really pleased with this finale! 

[OtterMommy]

53 minutes ago, JennyExiled said:

But wouldn't the bulk of the money go to Sir George's next male heir? We know they didn't have a child. Maybe I've just been watching too much Downton Abbey, but I wouldn't think the money would just go to the wife. It seems so unlikely. Perhaps a small allowance. Of course if her family is well off, they could help her any way they choose. I'm sure she's glad to be free of Sir George regardless!    

The resolutions might have been a bit too tidy (getting Harriet's children back was really just too easy), but I loved the story lines set up for a possible second season. Overall I was really pleased with this finale! 

Actually, probably not.  Since they didn't have any children, he had no claim on her money outside of her marriage.  Depending on whether her father was alive or not, it is possible (if her father was dead) that the money would go to HIS next male heir, but not Sir George's.  Since she clearly was not destitute and didn't seem to have any worries after the death of her ne-er-do-well husband, my bet is that her father is still alive and she is not suffering any financial hardships.

[snowwhyte]

His title and entailed estate would go to his next male heir. His wife should get half of what's left from what I've read but it does depend on contracts, wills etc. I would also like to think that Caroline has family that will look after her interests. She's only been a minor character but I hope they follow up with her next season. She provides an interesting contrast. She might be wealthy but that didn't prevent her from being trapped in a relationship with a man she despised.

[abbyzenn]

I really enjoyed this show - although I'm not sure enjoy is quite the right word.  It was eye opening and covered a bit of history that we don't learn in schools.

I don't think Lucy should become a dominatrix - she'd end up killing every client.

Was surprised how quickly Emily Lacy's house took off - it was certainly busy and looked a bit higher class than Margaret's.

Although I'm glad she got her children back I can't root for Harriet.  She was so cold to Margaret in the last episode when she threatened to report her if Margaret didn't give her the money.

I felt sorry for Charlotte, I think she feels betrayed by both her mother and Marney.  Jessica Brown Findlay is a wonderful actress and so beautiful.  In some of her outfits she was absolutely stunning.  

The judge's murder was quite surprising and thought at first it was something Margaret had arranged with Nancy.  

Hoping for a second season.

[nodorothyparker]

Took me a full week to remember to get around to watching this.  It had a lot of balls in the air going into the finale and some of the resolutions felt a little pat, but I'll take them.  There's just something I really like about this show and how female-centric it is on a subject that's usually relegated to male gaze and titillation.

The resolution of Harriet's story with Georgian-era Joffrey felt a little too easy, but I could also see where being challenged in a tavern full of people who clearly don't give a shit to try to intervene he would just say fuck it.  He's sailing out in a bit anyway and he still gets the plantation back in Virginia or wherever free and clear now without the hassle or embarrassment of his father's slave family.  I'm not bothered by Harriet threatening Margaret last episode as they were both mothers so desperately tunnel visioned on trying to save their children, but now that the money's been returned and she has the kids I can't imagine things are going to be easy between them going forward.  Margaret seemed to be softening there at the end looking at Fanny and her new baby.  Are all these kids now going to be allowed to live in the brothel like little Jacob or where do they go?  There are certainly accounts of children living in brothels of the time, but that also risks getting into the really unsavory territory of child prostitutes and grown men paying young boys or girls for services, and I can't really fathom modern audiences accepting the show going there.

The AV Club reviewer made the comparison of Charlotte choosing to ingratiate herself in the Quigley house to typically male focused mafia or crime family stories and I can see the parallel.  Charlotte and Lucy and Charles too are all second generation of this and they've seen their mothers do things and what they've done to each other to try to stay in business.  Charlotte may be pissed at Margaret right now for pushing her into the business but she was also seeing that that was all set in motion when Lydia Quigley bought what was probably a terrified 10-year-old for a pittance all those years ago.  Margaret doesn't know anything else and can only make choices within the framework of what she knows and thinks is realistic for her.  Margaret can be a lot to take, especially when she's letting her ruthlessness and fiercely unsentimental practicality take precedence over remembering that she's dealing in and with human beings, but I still like her.   She's not completely gone into mercenary Disney villain territory the way Quigley is.

Good for Emily for making the most of the hand she was dealt and coming out of it with something to show for it.  I love how so much of the women's stories were about the choices that money can buy you.  I hope that Caroline doesn't disappear from the canvas now that she's rid of her odious husband and has about as much autonomy as woman of this time period can hope for.   I'm also fine if they keep Haxby around to just so we watch various people fire him.  Maybe the Reptons have an opening.  Someone has to take care of the goat, after all.

If we hopefully get a second season, I'm going to need Lucy to pick a persona and actually stick with it.

[Nedsdag]

On 5/17/2017 at 6:44 PM, rollacoaster said:

The actress I was referring to as ending up with Irish love interests was the actress playing Charlotte, Jessica Brown Findlay, who played Lady Sybil on Downton Abbey.  She married an Irish man on that show, and then had Marney on this show.  

Good call! As a Downton Abbey fan, I noticed this as well. Marney is a hottie. Where do English casting directors find these hot Irish actors? Is there a county in Ireland where they're grown?

I just finished binging this show and it's still sticking with me. I hope they have a second season as well. I also want to see what happens to Fanny and her baby as well as how Charlotte will try to bring down Lydia and what will go on with Emily and Charles.

By the way, has anyone noticed that the character Fanny has the same first name as the title character in John Cleland's classic novel Fanny Hill? The book was written in the early 1800s about young girl who turns to prostitution after her parents died. I'm sure Cleland's book and Daniel Defoe's The Adventures of Moll Flanders were the inspiration for Harlets as well.

[rozen]

Harriet needs to gtfo here with this mooning over Mr. North business*. You already bilked the woman out of her money, threatened her and her children's lives, let her husband guilt trip her into taking you back, and now you're going to try to sleep w/ her man? Girl, shut up and be happy  you have your kids back.

Hopefully Lucy keeps going back to Nancy for domme lessons, otherwise she's going to wind up killing someone. There doesn't seem to be a 'high class' version of Nancy in any of the houses we've seen, so Lucy could be very popular very quickly.

Not surprised Emily Lacey's house would take off. She's good at her job, and now she's got baby-face George's contacts to come by and visit. Looking forward to S2 of her nipping at Margaret and Quigley's heels.

 

*Also tired of writers introducing one  male and one female PoC character, and then forcing them to fall for each other. There's nothing about Norths' character thus far that makes me think Harriet is even his type.

Edited May 28, 2017 by rozen

[rollacoaster]

6 hours ago, rozen said:

*Also tired of writers introducing one  male and one female PoC character, and then forcing them to fall for each other. There's nothing about Norths' character thus far that makes me think Harriet is even his type.

WORD.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I finally had time to watch the season finale - wooooo!

One of my favorite moments in this episode was Caroline asking Charlotte who killed her husband and Charlotte's obvious lie of "Um, villains?" and then Caroline saying that now she's free. Now she doesn't have to watch her husband spend her entire fortune, sleep with his mistress in her house, and deal with his general immaturity.

I was surprised that they were able to tie up so many loose ends in one episode. I am glad that Charlotte is staying at Mrs. Quigley's house only to get some vengeance for her mother. When she started talking to Daniel, I was afraid it was going to be an annoying self-sacrificing "I don't deserve your love" speech which seems to unmerited due to the fact that their relationship consisted of hooking up after she got kicked out, finding out Lucy killed George, Charlotte and Daniel being thrown in jail for George's murder, and then each of them being released from jail separately - all over the course of, what, two days? It's hard for me to buy that they have an intense love for each other when they've barely spent any time together.

I'm looking forward to the house of Emily Lacey and Charles next season!

[Riplet68]

Just binged season one.  So glad lord pansy is gone.  Lucy’s turn around was only pointed at in last scene.  Lucy watched “Betsy” and the under judge going at it and was surprised Betsy liked him, it and was still going to charge him.  She then saw Nancy slap the dude to get him to leave off with nomrepurcusdions, and Nancy showed her how to get some power back.  The last scene is her happily walking up to Margaret and confidently saying she was ready.

id forgotten Fallon had killed the judge.  I wanted to hate like him.  Now it will just be fear for Lucy unless they show the marquess is pulling his strings.

[aradia22]

I get it. Babies are cute. But also, realistically, what would they do with a baby? They're already living two to a room. And it's a girl and like Margaret pointed out, she prayed her babies wouldn't be girls because all that was ahead for them was prostitution.

Fallon was surprisingly hard to recognize without the wig.

I've soured on Lucy. What someone said the last episode about her offering to go confess rang true again. She offered to go with Fallon so her mother could reject the contract and protect her. If she really wanted to do things, she'd just do them. Going to Nancy later was more of the same.

I know I should like Emily but she's still too mouthy. She gets annoying quickly.

Poor Amelia. I do appreciate that no one is pure so everyone can be manipulated and blackmailed. It makes the show more interesting. Though I do wish the characters I like would start winning. Of course it's all a matter of being able to out-scheme your opponents.

I feel like Lydia got nothing out of her devil's bargain with Conliffe. 

Facing off with Benjamin was a whole lot of nothing.

This is why I can't like Charlotte. With all her mother's told her, she was still stupid enough to go with Lydia. Does she know about Emily? Surely she knows about girls being locked in the house. Even if Lydia is offering freedom... why would you trust her? She has no power or leverage or means of defending herself once she's locked in the house. She's emotional and acting hastily now. Give it time and she'll see how Quigley is much worse than Margaret.

Emily is an idiot. She should have taken her chances ratting out Lydia. Coming at her like this is insanity. A snap of Quigley's fingers and one of the footmen kills her and dumps her body in the river. If they was any logic to this world, Lydia would cut her losses and just kill Emily AND Charles. 

Margaret and Will facing off was like Shakespearean drama. Margaret has been dealing with hell and one of her idiot daughters just abandoned her to side with her greatest enemy. I can see why she'd be feeling insecure and jealous. On the other hand, William has his own moral code. I get why he would have wanted to help Harriet to absolve himself of his sins as an accomplice. 

CHRIST. I did not see that coming. Conliffe wants Amelia? I thought maybe he'd sacrifice Lydia. Even with everything that's happened, THIS is the Moral Event Horizon. I know she waited until the last moment, but I'm glad that in the end, Margaret couldn't sacrifice Amelia. That would have been a bridge too far.

I was hoping that Lydia going to Fallon would mean someone would just kill Conliffe.

WOO! Happy dance. Fuck you, Haxby! Glad Caroline saw through him. "I am a widow. I suffer no man's guidance now. In full command of my wits, I say take your things and go."

NOW? NOW Margaret finally sees the spy? Again, he doesn't dress inconspicuously and he's been hanging around for AGES.

WOO! Someone killed Conliffe! I love this episode!

LOL, Ratface saw Fallon. How does no one ever see him? He wasn't even hiding behind anything. 

Is Lucy going to be a dominatrix now? I feel like she has the wrong temperament. She might actually kill someone... else. 😉

Daniel's right that Charlotte is an idiot for not just leaving. But also, Charlotte thinking she can take Lydia down from the inside is... interesting if probably incredibly foolish. We shall see!

I have faith in Will but I don't doubt that Harriet is into him now and at some point will try to steal him from Margaret.

That was a cute line at the end but I have no faith that Lucy is actually ready for a damn thing.

[aradia22]

Quote

 I was surprised Lucy is going to be a dominatrix. I sort of thought she would go into acting/entertaining, what with her singing and piano playing.

At this time period, that would still probably make her a prostitute. Many opera singers, ballet dancers, etc. were mistresses or at least slept with "patrons."

I'd rather they write Daniel Marney off the show but if he stays around, I support him getting involved with Caroline. As everyone has said, she deserves some pleasure in her life. I wonder how her widowhood works though. I guess if the money was her inheritance and not tied to the estate then maybe it wouldn't go to the next relative who inherits the baronet title?

I'm on the side of being happy that the show got more melodramatic (I found the first half of the season confused about what it wanted to be and boring) and that the messy storylines wrapped up fairly neatly because I was also worried that everything was going to be a miserable clusterf**k.

Quote

 Are all these kids now going to be allowed to live in the brothel like little Jacob or where do they go?

I'm more like... how many rooms does this town house have? And it better be a well-behaved baby. What if it keeps crying? Also, these are a lot of new mouths to feed.

[Scarlett45]

I’ve loved season 1 so much- off go season 2!! Maybe I’ll finally catch up to “real time” soon. 

P.S. William is a good man-but NOOOOO to a love triangle. 

[Domoarigato]

On 8/3/2019 at 5:31 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I’ve loved season 1 so much- off go season 2!! Maybe I’ll finally catch up to “real time” soon. 

P.S. William is a good man-but NOOOOO to a love triangle. 

Same! Just started watching three days ago after realizing Hulu is now included with Sprint. On to season 2! 

[Roseanna]

On 5/22/2017 at 11:37 PM, JennyExiled said:

But wouldn't the bulk of the money go to Sir George's next male heir? We know they didn't have a child. Maybe I've just been watching too much Downton Abbey, but I wouldn't think the money would just go to the wife. It seems so unlikely. Perhaps a small allowance. Of course if her family is well off, they could help her any way they choose. I'm sure she's glad to be free of Sir George regardless!    

The resolutions might have been a bit too tidy (getting Harriet's children back was really just too easy), but I loved the story lines set up for a possible second season. Overall I was really pleased with this finale! 

 

On 5/23/2017 at 12:34 AM, OtterMommy said:

Actually, probably not.  Since they didn't have any children, he had no claim on her money outside of her marriage.  Depending on whether her father was alive or not, it is possible (if her father was dead) that the money would go to HIS next male heir, but not Sir George's.  Since she clearly was not destitute and didn't seem to have any worries after the death of her ne-er-do-well husband, my bet is that her father is still alive and she is not suffering any financial hardships.

 

On 5/23/2017 at 12:47 AM, snowwhyte said:

His title and entailed estate would go to his next male heir. His wife should get half of what's left from what I've read but it does depend on contracts, wills etc. I would also like to think that Caroline has family that will look after her interests. She's only been a minor character but I hope they follow up with her next season. She provides an interesting contrast. She might be wealthy but that didn't prevent her from being trapped in a relationship with a man she despised.

Downton Abbey was a special case because 1) the estate was entailed (inheritance only according the male line) 2) the marriage contract where all the wife's money was with the entailed estate (believing there would be a son to inherit) 3) the couple had children, albeit no sons.  

Let's compare Sense and Sensibility by Jane Austin where the widowed mother of Edward, Robert and Fanny Ferrars had full control about her fortune and could give it who she wanted. 

In this case, sir George was wasting his wife's money (which was legally his), so it wasn't tied with his estate (if he had one), and they had no children. So if Caroline's guardian had done his job well when negotiating her marriage contract, her husband's heir by a male line couldn't inherit her fortune but only his.

Unlike Ottermommy, I bet her father is dead and he had made her his heiress.