S03.E06: Off Brand

[Juliegirlj]

There are definite similarities between Chuck and Jimmy: both are attorneys that are very good at what they do. Chuck has mental disabilities and quirks, Jimmy likes to march to the beat of his own drum. Both McGill brothers are a bit of a challenge to employ. 

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

I did like the scene with Gus and Lydia.  I wonder, though, did the laundry already come with that undergound space?  Otherwise, how did they dig it out/build it with the heavy laundry building/machinery on top?  I have to wonder, how Gus and Lydia met?  We know from BB that LPH was a subsidiary of the German company Lydia worked for, and that a VP was also in on the drug mfg.  So wast LPH bought out/sold to the German company?  Or did Gus meet Lydia and start LPH already originally with the German company?  How did the conversation between Gus and Lydia disclose that one was interested in selling/making drugs and the other would be willing to help facilitate that?  Did the Mexican cartel ever know the involvement of the German company?  I'd love to know this back story more in depth.

Gus and Lydia are going to need a chemist, too.  

[Hanahope]

59 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Gus and Lydia are going to need a chemist, too

Yup.  How long have they been planning their own meth lab?

[Tatum]

On 5/16/2017 at 6:34 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

While I agree that Jimmy would be taking a big risk by going to Chuck's house, I thought Rebecca's behavior was admirable.

If Jimmy had explained to her that he would like to help, but was afraid of another trap or misunderstanding that would get him disbarred and incarcerated, that would be one thing.  

But, it was clear that Jimmy no longer gave a crap about Chuck, and that was probably shocking to her, as she had seen him as a man with a good heart.

Without that good heart that makes Jimmy care about people, when maybe he shouldn't  (like Chuck and the Kettlemans) he may be nothing more than a shady, criminal lawyer.  I thought it was sad that Jimmy didn't even want to help, as it show he is not our Jimmy anymore.  

Jimmy seems to have lost himself in his resentment towards Chuck, just as Chuck lost himself through his resentment towards Jimmy.

I agree. Rebecca clearly believes that Chuck's anger at Jimmy is brought on by mental illness, and as for Chuck's shenanigans that cost Jimmy a job offer at HHM however many years ago, she probably knows enough about Jimmy to know that it was justified.

 

What I don't get though, is why Jimmy didn't just say, Rebecca, what exactly makes you think I could get Chuck to open the door?? If he was willing to let you sit outside knocking for the last hour, he's not exactly going to throw open the door when you return with me.  And take any hostility out of it.

 

ETA: I think Jimmy does owe Rebecca something here.  None of this was her fault, and she was minding her own business, until Jimmy tracked her down, sent her alarming pictures, then exploited her presence at the hearing to coax a quasi breakdown from Chuck, and now, wants to throw up his hands and say, not my problem, to an understandably alarmed and regretful Rebecca, who's always been kind to Jimmy (that we know of)? Yeah, that's a dick move. He could have easily said, Rebecca, we are the last two people that Chuck wants to see right now. Chuck talks to Howard though and if you call him, I am sure he will keep you abreast of Chuck's health. I am sorry for bringing you into this.

On 5/17/2017 at 0:42 PM, qtpye said:

I really think Kim is very well written.  When Kim saw the commercial there was a glimmer of shock in her eyes.  She has always loved Jimmy, but a woman of her deportment would not be caught dead with Saul Goodman.  The commercial showcased Saul in all his ass clown showy tackiness.  It was poignant to me that when Rebecca was chewing out Jimmy about not helping his brother, She spat out "Chuck was right about you" right in front of Kim.  This commercial is allowing Kim to begin on the road to understanding, that despite being the king dick in dick land, CHUCK WAS RIGHT.  Jimmy might be a ne'er do well scamp with a heart of gold, but Saul is pure shit.  Kim has just been introduced to Saul and she already hates him.

I wish I could like this more than once. Totally agree. I think Kim enjoys some of slippin' Jimmy's antics, but it's a fine line between enjoyment and complete mortification.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Tatum

[JudyObscure]

I like Chuck, I am definitely not a Chuck hater, but every time someone excuses Chuck's behavior because "Chuck has a mental illness,"  I wonder. 

True, Chuck's electrical allergy is psychosomatic, and by definition, I guess, that is a form of mental illness. However, he is not mentally ill in the broader sense of brain diseases like clinical depression, schizophrenia, or bi-polar.  Those are usually understood to mean chemical imbalances in the brain that affect thinking in every area.  For example severe depression can lead to anger issues that would make Chuck constantly angry at Jimmy. Schizophrenia could cause Chuck to think Jimmy is hiding in his house or plotting to kill him.  I just don't see how Chuck's false belief that he feels pain around electricity could cause him to be angry at Jimmy or hold grudges against him since they were little boys. 

I sympathize with Chuck having this painful and inconvenient condition whether it's "all in his head," or not, but I don't think he deserves to get away with things like being mean to Ernesto or ungrateful to Jimmy for all his help, under a blanket excuse of mental illness.  To me it's like saying "I didn't return your calls because I have arthritis,"  if the arthritis is all in my knees.

[RealReality]

On 5/16/2017 at 2:00 AM, millennium said:

As I live and breathe, Lydia Rodarte Quayle.  And Krazy 8.  The laundry.   And Saul Goodman.   At last this show is starting to pay dividends. 

I loved the Saul Goodman commercial.   If it were a real commercial, that guy would make money.

Initially, but when we met Jesse he was cooking, not dealing. 

I'm not ashamed to say I loooooved the commercial.  The star swipes were the best part. 

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I like Chuck, I am definitely not a Chuck hater, but every time someone excuses Chuck's behavior because "Chuck has a mental illness,"  I wonder. 

True, Chuck's electrical allergy is psychosomatic, and by definition, I guess, that is a form of mental illness. However, he is not mentally ill in the broader sense of brain diseases like clinical depression, schizophrenia, or bi-polar.  Those are usually understood to mean chemical imbalances in the brain that affect thinking in every area.  For example severe depression can lead to anger issues that would make Chuck constantly angry at Jimmy. Schizophrenia could cause Chuck to think Jimmy is hiding in his house or plotting to kill him.  I just don't see how Chuck's false belief that he feels pain around electricity could cause him to be angry at Jimmy or hold grudges against him since they were little boys. 

I sympathize with Chuck having this painful and inconvenient condition whether it's "all in his head," or not, but I don't think he deserves to get away with things like being mean to Ernesto or ungrateful to Jimmy for all his help, under a blanket excuse of mental illness.  To me it's like saying "I didn't return your calls because I have arthritis,"  if the arthritis is all in my knees.

I might understand his treatment of Jimmy, in a vacuum.  But he can absolutely miss me with how he treats Ernesto.

[Tatum]

29 minutes ago, RealReality said:

 

I might understand his treatment of Jimmy, in a vacuum.  But he can absolutely miss me with how he treats Ernesto.

Good point.

[ghoulina]

Exactly. Chuck isn't just nasty to Jimmy. He uses Howard. He has been condescending to Kim. He was foul to Ernesto. I even think there were flickers of moments of him being a bit of an ass to Rebecca. 

[Ohwell]

Speaking of Ernesto, I hope we find out what happened to him in a future episode.  I don't want to believe that Kim or Jimmy would just forget about him and not try to help him get another job.

[PeterPirate]

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Yup.  How long have they been planning their own meth lab?

We're going to need a prequel to the prequel to splain everything.  They can call it Methmento.

[Gobi]

5 hours ago, Tatum said:

I agree. Rebecca clearly believes that Chuck's anger at Jimmy is brought on by mental illness, and as for Chuck's shenanigans that cost Jimmy a job offer at HHM however many years ago, she probably knows enough about Jimmy to know that it was justified.

 

What I don't get though, is why Jimmy didn't just say, Rebecca, what exactly makes you think I could get Chuck to open the door?? If he was willing to let you sit outside knocking for the last hour, he's not exactly going to throw open the door when you return with me.  And take any hostility out of it.

 

ETA: I think Jimmy does owe Rebecca something here.  None of this was her fault, and she was minding her own business, until Jimmy tracked her down, sent her alarming pictures, then exploited her presence at the hearing to coax a quasi breakdown from Chuck, and now, wants to throw up his hands and say, not my problem, to an understandably alarmed and regretful Rebecca, who's always been kind to Jimmy (that we know of)? Yeah, that's a dick move. He could have easily said, Rebecca, we are the last two people that Chuck wants to see right now. Chuck talks to Howard though and if you call him, I am sure he will keep you abreast of Chuck's health. I am sorry for bringing you into this.

I wish I could like this more than once. Totally agree. I think Kim enjoys some of slippin' Jimmy's antics, but it's a fine line between enjoyment and complete mortification.

I think the coldness of Jimmy's reaction was due to this being the first time that he heard Chuck say exactly how he felt about him, and how he wanted to destroy Jimmy's legal career. Not just to his face, but under oath no less! Before then, Jimmy could always pretend that things were different between them. Afterwards, he was forced to accept that his brother actually hates him, and will do whatever he can to destroy Jimmy (justified or not).

You might say that Chuck has taken it up to 11. :)

[Tatum]

16 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I think the coldness of Jimmy's reaction was due to this being the first time that he heard Chuck say exactly how he felt about him, and how he wanted to destroy Jimmy's legal career. Not just to his face, but under oath no less! Before then, Jimmy could always pretend that things were different between them. Afterwards, he was forced to accept that his brother actually hates him, and will do whatever he can to destroy Jimmy (justified or not).

You might say that Chuck has taken it up to 11. :)

Yes but the hearing didn't just hurt Chuck and Jimmy. It also caused distress to Rebecca, a completely innocent party. Because Jimmy directly caused that, I think he owed her more than, fuck Chuck, not my problem. For Rebecca's sake, not Chuck's

[ByTor]

On 5/15/2017 at 11:19 PM, Sharper2002 said:

Lydia's back, eh? She annoyed me to now end on Breaking Bad

Ugh, same.  I hope this is the only time we get stuck with her; I don't ever again want to have to hear her lisping for Stevia.

Edited May 20, 2017 by ByTor

[Bannon]

20 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Exactly. Chuck isn't just nasty to Jimmy. He uses Howard. He has been condescending to Kim. He was foul to Ernesto. I even think there were flickers of moments of him being a bit of an ass to Rebecca. 

I think Chuck has essentially an antisocial personality disorder (which is a very interesting condition for a brilliant attorney), and his belief in his inability to tolerate electricity is simply a tool he can use to attack and control others, and rationalize, often just to himself, his poor treatment of others. I go back to the flashback of his flinging Rebecca's phone across the room. He can't just leave the room, while Rebecca is on the phone. He is enraged that her attention isn't solely on him, so pronounced is his narcissism, but he can't admit that to himself, so he tells himself the phone causes him pain, but doesn't just remove himself from the pain, but instead violently attacks the object that Rebecca is using to give someone else attention. Then, when called out on his awful behavior, he, ironically, pretends to lie about being an anti-social jerk, when that is EXACTLY what he is.

This is as good a writing job, matched by the actor and direction, that I've ever seen on television, in terms of fleshing out a character. It stands with Carmela Soprano, Al Swearingen, dare I say Walter White, and the other great portrayals. The awesome thing about this show is that Jimmy McGill/Saul Goodman, Mike Ehrmantraut (who we really didn't get to see fully fleshed out in BB), and Kim Wexler are about at the same level.

[ShadowFacts]

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

This is as good a writing job, matched by the actor and direction, that I've ever seen on television, in terms of fleshing out a character. It stands with Carmela Soprano, Al Swearingen, dare I say Walter White, and the other great portrayals. The awesome thing about this show is that Jimmy McGill/Saul Goodman, Mike Ehrmantraut (who we really didn't get to see fully fleshed out in BB), and Kim Wexler are about at the same level.

I agree the writing is really on a high level.  I would like to see a little more of Kim's back story to get a better read on her.  I also think Chuck has probably enough co-morbidity to keep a good mental health professional busy for quite a while.  If he is beginning to take steps to right his ship, I would be interested to see that, but if he's not going to try a fresh start as Howard suggested, I'm not that into more of his pathology. 

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

I agree the writing is really on a high level.  I would like to see a little more of Kim's back story to get a better read on her.  I also think Chuck has probably enough co-morbidity to keep a good mental health professional busy for quite a while.  If he is beginning to take steps to right his ship, I would be interested to see that, but if he's not going to try a fresh start as Howard suggested, I'm not that into more of his pathology. 

Looking at the titles for upcoming episodes, I suspect a resolutipn is near.

[Auntie Anxiety]

Quote

Yes but the hearing didn't just hurt Chuck and Jimmy. It also caused distress to Rebecca, a completely innocent party. Because Jimmy directly caused that, I think he owed her more than, fuck Chuck, not my problem. For Rebecca's sake, not Chuck's.

If Rebecca had visited Chuck from time to time after their amicable divorce, she would have gotten some inkling that Chuck was going off the rails. He wouldn't have been able to keep up the appearance for long. So Rebecca was innocent only because she didn't really care all that much while Jimmy did all the heavy lifting. I don't think he owed her anything, actually. In some ways, she owed HIM an apology for having her head in the sand.

[J----av]

On 2017-05-17 at 8:35 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

 

After Chuck stole that same client from Kim.  For no reason other than to just be petty and hurt Jimmy. 

No, it is not wrong for a victim to seek justice.  But the way Chuck did it is wrong. 

Chuck justifies all his actions by making sure they are legal, there is no other higher standard, or indeed no other standard at all to consider.  He basically said so, almost word for word, in this hearing.  What is legal is not always what is ethical or morally correct, though, which is what he fails to see again and again. 

LOL seriously? Its amazing the writers can get people to think Jimmy is more in the right then Chuck. I guess they did the same thing with Walt and Skyler too though

[J----av]

On 2017-05-17 at 11:27 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

I loved the commercial.  

"Great services, great products, and most of all, that face! You're a star! Wrap it all up in your natural charisma, and bam! You belong on TV! Better watch out for autograph hounds and paparazzi!"

I could really see it working on small business owners.  It would play to their desire for more business, their pride in their business and their vanity, all at once.

Jimmy really should have pursued a career in advertising.  But, I guess you can't make a show about an advertising guy.  

 

  I heard that Mad Men show did pretty well for itself

[J----av]

On 2017-05-17 at 3:44 PM, ghoulina said:

I think Jimmy knew it was likely a mental issue. Especially after the doctor revealed that she'd turned a button on his bed on and Chuck had no clue. But I think Jimmy also knew there was no telling this to Chuck. He knew how strongly Chuck believed it was a physical illness and he didn't see a point in challenging him. He just wanted to be there for him and do whatever he needed to in order to make Chuck comfortable. 

 

Opinions obviously vary wildly, but I would not compare Chuck and Hank. I loved Hank! He was rough around the edges sure, but I think he loved his family and was fiercely loyal - neither of which I'd ascribe to Chuck. Hank was Walt's adversary, but he was ultimately just a man doing his job. For Chuck, it seems entirely personal. I did not get any joy out of that false confession video. I thought that was horrible, but then I never rooted for Walt the way I do for Jimmy. I don't feel I need to vilify the people Jimmy comes up against. I just find Chuck to be a miserable person, period. He's miserable to Kim and has been kind of unfair to Howard as well. Let's not even talk about how gross he was to Ernesto. For me, it's not just about the sibling crap; I just think Chuck is an ass. 

 

Waiting for a lone "ding, ding, ding"....

 

Very valid points. Chuck was disgusted with the billboard shennanigans, but that was done because Jimmy was trying to fuck with Howard, whom he thought had an inexplicable grudge against him. At that time he saw Howard as his nemesis, the one holding him back. If his intro to law had been handled differently, we may never have had the billboard stunt. (Personally, I loved that stunt and don't see much wrong with it. Certain lawyers use all kinds of shady methods to drum up clients, so whatever.)

 Its been well established that Jimmy has been doing shady things since he was a child. People defending Jimmy's actions reminds me of people defending Walt saying he was only rying to help his family

[kieyra]

There's actually a Jimmy V Chuck thread now:

[Jextella]

On 5/20/2017 at 0:32 PM, Bannon said:

I think Chuck has essentially an antisocial personality disorder (which is a very interesting condition for a brilliant attorney), and his belief in his inability to tolerate electricity is simply a tool he can use to attack and control others, and rationalize, often just to himself, his poor treatment of others. I go back to the flashback of his flinging Rebecca's phone across the room. He can't just leave the room, while Rebecca is on the phone. He is enraged that her attention isn't solely on him, so pronounced is his narcissism, but he can't admit that to himself, so he tells himself the phone causes him pain, but doesn't just remove himself from the pain, but instead violently attacks the object that Rebecca is using to give someone else attention. Then, when called out on his awful behavior, he, ironically, pretends to lie about being an anti-social jerk, when that is EXACTLY what he is.

This is as good a writing job, matched by the actor and direction, that I've ever seen on television, in terms of fleshing out a character. It stands with Carmela Soprano, Al Swearingen, dare I say Walter White, and the other great portrayals. The awesome thing about this show is that Jimmy McGill/Saul Goodman, Mike Ehrmantraut (who we really didn't get to see fully fleshed out in BB), and Kim Wexler are about at the same level.

Couldn't agree more.   For me, BCS is a page turner, and I actually find it far more nuanced than BB. So much so that I have to rewatch to make sure I get everything.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Jextella

[Juliegirlj]

Jimmy was on the right track when he questioned why Chuck kept his "illness" a secret from Rebecca. Chuck admitted he may not have been so secretive, had he contracted a more main stream illness. He claims that he is of sound mind, and that his illness is a physical malady, yet, his actions speak otherwise. So, deep down, Chuck may realize the truth. 

[Tatum]

14 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

If Rebecca had visited Chuck from time to time after their amicable divorce, she would have gotten some inkling that Chuck was going off the rails. He wouldn't have been able to keep up the appearance for long. So Rebecca was innocent only because she didn't really care all that much while Jimmy did all the heavy lifting. I don't think he owed her anything, actually. In some ways, she owed HIM an apology for having her head in the sand.

Was she supposed to break into his house? Camp out on his lawn? It's clear he went to great lengths to hide his aversion to electricity from her. She likely wasn't invited back. Chuck had her current contact information which suggests she'd made attempts over the years to keep in touch. And she came running as soon as Jimmy asked. He brought this to her attention under the pretense of needing her help, when in actuality, he was hoping her presence would cause Chuck to unravel. And now she knows and can't do a damn thing to help. 

[Ohwell]

Jimmy did what he had to do (used Rebecca) to save his ass, but also to show that Chuck was mentally ill, and if that meant bringing back Rebecca under false pretenses, then so be it.  If Rebecca had taken time to talk to Jimmy and ask why he did it, just what is the relationship between him and Chuck, instead of being butt hurt and snapping back at him, then maybe I could have given her a pass.  

I defended her last week for taking the cell phone call because I really didn't think she was being rude, but this week she annoyed me because she strikes me as very self-centered.  Go back to your concerts, indeed.

[ByTor]

16 hours ago, J----av said:

I heard that Mad Men show did pretty well for itself

Maybe (I'll never understand why, I thought it was insanely overrated), but since this show is about a lawyer, no, this couldn't be about an advertising guy.

[Tatum]

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Jimmy did what he had to do (used Rebecca) to save his ass, but also to show that Chuck was mentally ill, and if that meant bringing back Rebecca under false pretenses, then so be it.  If Rebecca had taken time to talk to Jimmy and ask why he did it, just what is the relationship between him and Chuck, instead of being butt hurt and snapping back at him, then maybe I could have given her a pass.  

I defended her last week for taking the cell phone call because I really didn't think she was being rude, but this week she annoyed me because she strikes me as very self-centered.  Go back to your concerts, indeed.

I disagree. There's no one in Albuquerque that thinks Chuck isn't mentally ill, including those who indulge him. And if Jimmy needed a live demonstration for the hearing, that still didn't require Rebecca's presence. He brought her there to prompt an emotional outburst that would discredit not his mental health- his space blanket kind of takes care of that- but his motivation for wanting Jimmy disbarred. 

 

I understand why he did it and I don't blame him for not going with Rebecca, but he brought her back and I think he owed her more than a shrug and a dismissal. She could have asked him what caused this split, but I think he should have offered an explanation regardless. 

[Auntie Anxiety]

Exactly how has Rebecca been communicating with Chuck since their divorce? Chuck doesn't use a phone, he doesn't use a computer. If Rebecca had to resort to snail mail, don't you think a light bulb would have gone off in her head that it is highly unusual that a high powered lawyer like Chuck was so difficult to get a hold of? Wouldn't she have tried to find out what was going on with him? 

[Bryce Lynch]

On 5/19/2017 at 4:05 PM, RealReality said:

I'm not ashamed to say I loooooved the commercial.  The star swipes were the best part. 

I might understand his treatment of Jimmy, in a vacuum.  But he can absolutely miss me with how he treats Ernesto.

Chuck really wasn't bad to Ernie until Ernie lied to cover for Jimmy.  Before that he was his usual politely condescending self towards Ernie.

Ernie was put into a difficult situation, but anyone who takes sides against his boss and lies to protect a guy who committed a crime against and humiliated that boss should expect to get fired.  

Ernie was being a good guy and a good friend by lying for Jimmy, but a bad employee.

[J----av]

3 hours ago, ByTor said:

Maybe (I'll never understand why, I thought it was insanely overrated), but since this show is about a lawyer, no, this couldn't be about an advertising guy.

Why?

 

Also pretty sure you completely missed what he was saying

[ByTor]

5 minutes ago, J----av said:

Also pretty sure you completely missed what he was saying

Who's "he"? Do you mean what @Bryce Lynch said?  Pretty sure you completely missed what he was saying.  You can't make a show about a lawyer who became a "criminal" lawyer into a show about an advertising guy.
 

Edited May 22, 2017 by ByTor

[Bryce Lynch]

14 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Who's "he"? Do you mean what @Bryce Lynch said?  Pretty sure you completely missed what he was saying.  You can't make a show about a lawyer who became a "criminal" lawyer into a show about an advertising guy.
 

I was actually joking and referring to Mad Men.  

But it is true they couldn't suddenly change BCS into a show about an ad guy, when we already know Saul Goodman is a lawyer years later from BB.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[RealReality]

13 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Chuck really wasn't bad to Ernie until Ernie lied to cover for Jimmy.  Before that he was his usual politely condescending self towards Ernie.

Ernie was put into a difficult situation, but anyone who takes sides against his boss and lies to protect a guy who committed a crime against and humiliated that boss should expect to get fired.  

Ernie was being a good guy and a good friend by lying for Jimmy, but a bad employee.

IMO, there was always a disgusting air of condescenion towards Ernie.   Furthermore IMO, you should have more than a employee/boss relationship with a guy that is coming to your home every day and taking care of you, and then having to leave to go to work.  If Ernie wanted to be a dick about things he could have turned down the assignment, or not taken any care at all.  He could have just dropped the stuff off in the kitchen and been on his way.  He didn't need to take the time or energy to put things away in a nice way to make sure that Chuck was taken care of.  Frankly, it strikes me that no one else would be interested in taking the assignment, so I doubt he would be fired for not doing a great job.  But he cared about Chuck and so he did.

[ShadowFacts]

45 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Exactly how has Rebecca been communicating with Chuck since their divorce? Chuck doesn't use a phone, he doesn't use a computer. If Rebecca had to resort to snail mail, don't you think a light bulb would have gone off in her head that it is highly unusual that a high powered lawyer like Chuck was so difficult to get a hold of? Wouldn't she have tried to find out what was going on with him? 

Good point.  Maybe he was sending Hallmark cards.  When you care enough to send the very best.  But seriously, how did anybody ever get in contact with him aside from Howard, Jimmy or Ernie going over to his house?  Not a very efficient way to handle questions from clients or colleagues.  Snail mail is way too slow for pressing issues.

3 minutes ago, RealReality said:

IMO, there was always a disgusting air of condescenion towards Ernie.   Furthermore IMO, you should have more than a employee/boss relationship with a guy that is coming to your home every day and taking care of you, and then having to leave to go to work.  If Ernie wanted to be a dick about things he could have turned down the assignment, or not taken any care at all.  He could have just dropped the stuff off in the kitchen and been on his way.  He didn't need to take the time or energy to put things away in a nice way to make sure that Chuck was taken care of.  Frankly, it strikes me that no one else would be interested in taking the assignment, so I doubt he would be fired for not doing a great job.  But he cared about Chuck and so he did.

I think he treated Chuck with more decency than Chuck treated him.  Chuck wanted him to be insubordinate to make his Jimmy-like scheme work, and when it did, he tossed him aside. 

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

I understand why he did it and I don't blame him for not going with Rebecca, but he brought her back and I think he owed her more than a shrug and a dismissal. She could have asked him what caused this split, but I think he should have offered an explanation regardless. 

And he just might have offered an explanation a little later, but Rebecca burst in just as he and Kim were celebrating and I think he was too emotional (and relieved) to offer her an explanation right there and then.  I still think she could have/should have stayed and talked to him but we'll just have to agree to disagree, and move on.

[PeterPirate]

I think that if Rebecca doesn't barge in, she and Jimmy never talk again.  

I don't think Jimmy is all that loyal to people who can't help him. Where was he the five years before he got arrested in Chicago?

For that matter, where was Jimmy once he learned that Chuck was the one who was backstabbing him? Did he once reach out to Chuck unless it was to further his own interests in one way or another? Not that I recall.  

[Tatum]

12 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Good point.  Maybe he was sending Hallmark cards.  When you care enough to send the very best.  But seriously, how did anybody ever get in contact with him aside from Howard, Jimmy or Ernie going over to his house?  Not a very efficient way to handle questions from clients or colleagues.  Snail mail is way too slow for pressing issues.

I don't think he really had any pressing issues though. His parents were gone, Jimmy and his colleagues were aware of the situation, and they said in the pilot he had been away from HHM for a year on "sabbatical", and his cases were being handled by other staff. Not sure Chuck ever had friends outside of the legal circle who knew of his health problems. Really, Rebecca is pretty much the only one out of the loop that would have been interested, I think.

As far as how much contact she tried to maintain, who can know? Chuck would have been sick a year before the show started, and became sick shortly after his divorce, and it's not clear how far into that year the aborted reconciliation dinner took place. If Chuck disconnected his personal phone service and was no longer reachable at HHM, should Rebecca have boarded a plane to visit her ex husband in Albuquerque, immediately assuming something bad had happened?

Perhaps the writers are trying to portray her as someone who was willfully ignorant about her ex in order to avoid any obligation to help him, and now that it's been forced to her attention, wants to blame the one person that has taken care of him. I really don't see it that way though. I see her as someone who cares deeply about her ex, but had made the decision with the divorce to maintain strict boundaries, and that means not showing up at his house uninvited when she can't get him on the phone. She's sent pictures and a letter from Jimmy explaining that Chuck is mentally ill and a danger to himself, and she immediately comes running. Only to find out that her presence was only a vehicle to prompt a humiliating breakdown for Chuck, which now makes him even worse off emotionally than he was before.  And now he won't come out of the house or answer the door. She feels worried and regretful, and for some inexplicable reason, thinks Jimmy can help her make it right. And he basically shrugs her off. I just think, although I like Jimmy and he's a good person, that was a really shitty thing to do. It would have taken him 5 seconds to tell her that Chuck was never going to open the door for Jimmy, but Jimmy could give her Howard's number if she didn't have it and Rebecca could rely on Howard for updates on Chuck.

59 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I think that if Rebecca doesn't barge in, she and Jimmy never talk again.  

I don't think Jimmy is all that loyal to people who can't help him. Where was he the five years before he got arrested in Chicago?

For that matter, where was Jimmy once he learned that Chuck was the one who was backstabbing him? Did he once reach out to Chuck unless it was to further his own interests in one way or another? Not that I recall.  

I agree with the top sentence. She had served her purpose.

 

I do think Jimmy still cared about Chuck deeply even after the betrayal. Remember he sat with Ernie and gave him like 3 pages of instructions on the right kind of apples and newspapers to buy.

[Clanstarling]

For me it boils down to this. Is Rebecca justified at being upset with Jimmy for bringing her to the hearing and using her? Absolutely. To hate him? You bet. He made her part of his scorched earth defense, and despising him is not unreasonable from her perspective.

To expect him to help her get Chuck to open the door, or that Jimmy owes Chuck anything at this point. Nope.

Even if she missed the intervening years of the deterioration of their relationship, after Chuck's rant on the stand, how could she miss how much Chuck hates Jimmy and that he would never answer the door for him. Not to mention the fact that Jimmy was at the hearing because he broke down Chuck's door.

She's not wrong to feel what she feels. She's just wrong to expect Jimmy to feel what she thinks he should feel.

[Tatum]

14 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

For me it boils down to this. Is Rebecca justified at being upset with Jimmy for bringing her to the hearing and using her? Absolutely. To hate him? You bet. He made her part of his scorched earth defense, and despising him is not unreasonable from her perspective.

To expect him to help her get Chuck to open the door, or that Jimmy owes Chuck anything at this point. Nope.

Even if she missed the intervening years of the deterioration of their relationship, after Chuck's rant on the stand, how could she miss how much Chuck hates Jimmy and that he would never answer the door for him. Not to mention the fact that Jimmy was at the hearing because he broke down Chuck's door.

She's not wrong to feel what she feels. She's just wrong to expect Jimmy to feel what she thinks he should feel.

Fair enough. How I see it though, is Jimmy going with Rebecca to see Chuck is a favor for Rebecca, not Chuck.

It's a moot point, because there's nothing Jimmy could do to help her get through the door (legally), but assuming he could- he wouldn't be going with Rebecca for Chuck's sake. He would be going with Rebecca because she's panicked and it's because of Jimmy that she feels that way. He could have defused the situation by explaining that neither one of them was going to be invited in, and if she wanted access to Chuck, here are some people she can try. He wouldn't have to get into the whole emotional debacle, he wouldn't have to go with her, all he would have to do is decline in a way that doesn't basically say, yeah, I lied to get you here, with your unknowing assistance I outed Chuck as  crazy, vindictive, and unreliable, he'll never speak to you again due to how humiliated he is, and yeah, sucks to be you right now. Well, back to my drink.

[Eulipian 5k]

I think Lydia will be a lot less edgy around Gus than anyone else from BB because she knows Gus is a very, very, cautious man.

[Adiba]

I see the Issue with the Rebecca situation from both sides-- as others have stated, after seeing what went down at the hearing, why on earth would she expect Jimmy to want to risk going to Chuck's or that Chuck would want to speak to either of them, let alone allow either of them in? On the other hand, why didn't Jimmy just say as much to Rebecca? I was talking to the TV during that scene, lol.

I am assuming the writers needed to show a breaking point for Jimmy-- that he was done, emotionally, after hearing Chuck's rant about him-- and show the snap that caused Saul to emerge finally.

[Bryce Lynch]

16 hours ago, RealReality said:

IMO, there was always a disgusting air of condescenion towards Ernie.   Furthermore IMO, you should have more than a employee/boss relationship with a guy that is coming to your home every day and taking care of you, and then having to leave to go to work.  If Ernie wanted to be a dick about things he could have turned down the assignment, or not taken any care at all.  He could have just dropped the stuff off in the kitchen and been on his way.  He didn't need to take the time or energy to put things away in a nice way to make sure that Chuck was taken care of.  Frankly, it strikes me that no one else would be interested in taking the assignment, so I doubt he would be fired for not doing a great job.  But he cared about Chuck and so he did.

I'd have to watch those Ernie/Chuck scenes again, but the way I remember it, Chuck seemed appreciative of Ernie's efforts, but in his politely condescending way, had to point out a few things he wanted done slightly differently, in particular the variety of apples.  The condescending part was when asked Ernie if he needed to write it down and said it is OK if he had to.  Even that might have been in response to the nervous look on Ernie's face.  He was never mean spirited toward Ernie, until Ernie took Jimmy's side against him, by lying about calling him to the copy shop.

Ernie seems to be a very, nice guy, and he was a good friend to Jimmy.  But, when you chose to be loyal to your friend, in a way that will negatively impact your boss, you should expect your boss to be angry.  

[Jextella]

51 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I'd have to watch those Ernie/Chuck scenes again, but the way I remember it, Chuck seemed appreciative of Ernie's efforts, but in his politely condescending way, had to point out a few things he wanted done slightly differently, in particular the variety of apples.  The condescending part was when asked Ernie if he needed to write it down and said it is OK if he had to.  Even that might have been in response to the nervous look on Ernie's face.  He was never mean spirited toward Ernie, until Ernie took Jimmy's side against him, by lying about calling him to the copy shop.

Ernie seems to be a very, nice guy, and he was a good friend to Jimmy.  But, when you chose to be loyal to your friend, in a way that will negatively impact your boss, you should expect your boss to be angry.  

Just a few scenes later we're shown Jimmy telling Omar that he's low maintenance.  Seems like an intentional contrast by the writers.  Chuck going on and on about his choice of apple and Jimmy who could care less about his office and beverage needs (I think they were beverages).

I don't think Chuck was being condescending to Ernesto.  He was just being his prickly, picky and needy self.  I can see why he'd ask Ernesto if he needed to write it down.  Lot's to keep track of where Chuck is concerned.

(Although,  I can't get down on Chuck too much - especially where apples are concerned.  A Fiji would rot before I'd eat it, but a Red Delicious would be gone in a heartbeat (with some peanut butter or slice of cheese)).

Edited May 22, 2017 by Jextella

[ghoulina]

On 5/20/2017 at 11:58 PM, J----av said:

LOL seriously? Its amazing the writers can get people to think Jimmy is more in the right then Chuck. I guess they did the same thing with Walt and Skyler too though

I think they're both wrong and they're both right, in different ways. Legality doesn't mean everything to me, though. So my opinion may be different than others. 

As for Skyler and Walt, I was on HER side way more often than his. 

3 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

I think Lydia will be a lot less edgy around Gus than anyone else from BB because she knows Gus is a very, very, cautious man.

This is a very good point. The Lydia we saw was dealing with the aftermath of losing Gus. Not saying she's ever the bastion of tranquility, but yea....she might not be so uptight. 

[Tatum]

13 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

 

As for Skyler and Walt, I was on HER side way more often than his. 

 

I never got the hate for Skyler. I found her much more sympathetic and palatable than Walt.

[ghoulina]

7 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I never got the hate for Skyler. I found her much more sympathetic and palatable than Walt.

Same. Sure, there were times when Skyler could be a bit much. But I never understood why people expected her to just accept Walt's behavior. He was clearly lying his ass off and never coming home. Name me one wife who wouldn't get up in arms if her husband started acting like that. 

[JudyObscure]

I hate Skylar and it has nothing whatsoever to do with Walt.  I would hate her if she was married to the kindest man on earth and I would hate her if she was married to a serial killer. She had every reason to be angry at Walt as time went on  and in a contest of who has done the most horrible things or who is most likely to burn in Hell it would be Walt, of course, but that has nothing to do with why I can't stand her. 

 From the first episode, I found her smug, controlling and self-centered, always confident they she is in the right,  smarter and better than everyone else.  The sort of woman who would call her husband to dinner and then snap at him like you would a dog, if he wasn't there in twenty seconds.  The kind of woman who, minutes after swearing to her husband that she wouldn't humiliate him in front of his nemesis by asking him for money -- asks him for money. The kind of woman who would set up a big lie about sewage regulations in order to take a man's  business away from him and never blink an eye.  The sort of woman who would refuse to forgive her sister for giving her a stolen present, even after she begged for forgiveness ten times a day, everyday for weeks.  The kind of woman who would take away her son's new car, that he is absolutely thrilled with, even though a simple lie about "gift from online donor," would have explained it.  Why because she is the biggest control freak in the entire world and that car hadn't been her idea.

 At one point, during a fight, Walt tells Skylar that for the entire duration of their marriage he hadn't got his way about one single thing. I had no trouble believing him and I noticed that she didn't come up with an example of that being untrue.  I've never known any murdering drug dealers, but I've known women like Skylar and I couldn't stand them.

[Ohwell]

...and the kind of woman who would serve her husband turkey bacon.

[qtpye]

12 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

...and the kind of woman who would serve her husband turkey bacon.

I think it was worse...tofu bacon (saying this as someone who likes tofu).

[Ohwell]

3 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I think it was worse...tofu bacon (saying this as someone who likes tofu).

OMG.  Tofu?