S05.E10: Darkroom

[Pickles]

Ok, I am still confused about the grain! Why is this so hard for me? Claudia said the wheat sample was wonderful, blah, blah, blah. I was lost after that. Did she say it was actually a Russian wheat? I thought Elizabeth looked shocked. Sorry if I am being dense! Clearly, the wheat has done me in.

[gesundheit]

Yep, way too slow, and it seems that "extra 10 minutes" thing was something FX guaranteed them for the whole season and there's nothing to show for it.

[gesundheit]

Also, I mean... Pastor Tim's not wrong.

[qtpye]

I too am confused about why they still have to keep running the ops in Kansas...to get more wheat?  I guess I do not find their love all that romantic, because the wedding did nothing for me.  Just another example of how Phillip loves E more then anything and she is (probably) finally returning those feelings.  Also Paige's panic attack mopping was almost as dorky looking as Paige's fighting skills.  The actress was fine in previous season, but really is horrible now that her character is dealing with a lot of complex emotions.

[shura]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Did you catch when Stan's girlfriend said that she wasn't available the following week, because she had to go home? What home? I thought she lived locally?  I wonder if she will be followed to this so called home.

That threw me too, I didn't realize she just flies in to see Stan once in a while. This is not at all like Deirdre's and Ben's deal in Topeka, right?

I am looking forward to Stan and Aderholdt storming a bathroom stall at JFK to grab the Soviet hockey guy and his pouch (yeah, I heard it). I like how Sofia was like "You rented this nice empty apartment in my building, huh... You know, I got a guy now. Gennady... Can the FBI help me with babysitting?"

Quote

OMG. E and P got married for real. With their real names. In Russian. In an orthodox ceremony. And what I think included new rings.

I am a little surprised Philip even thought to have a church ceremony. I'm sure he was not brought up in the USSR thinking that this is how things should be, a religious ceremony per se probably means nothing to him and Elizabeth (as evidenced by his "I know, God, right?" to Elizabeth), it does not in itself make their marriage real. Funny, too, how the priest was telling them that, as soon as one of them gets to Moscow, they need to file the paperwork to make the marriage official with the Soviet state. But it really was something real for them, something they entered into as their real selves, without disguise. 

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

officials at the Rezidentura delivering the fake rock to Tatiana.

Had Philip or Elizabeth ever had contact with anyone at the Rezidentura before this? I thought things were kept separate for everyone's security.

4 minutes ago, shura said:

I am a little surprised Philip even thought to have a church ceremony.

As others have mentioned, it was Nadezha and Mikhail who were married, not Elizabeth and Philip. Philip specifically asked the Orthodox priest to officiate for his ties to Russia. The ceremony wouldn't have been nearly as meaningful to either of them if they'd gone down to City Hall or had some random minister marry them.

[attica]

41 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Did she say it was actually a Russian wheat?

She said it was related to Kazakh wheat (Kazakhstan being a neighbor of Russia now, part of the USSR then), and suggested the US scientists stole it. Which is why, presumably, P&E have to stay on the Topeka case: to ferret out the wheat-thieves. Or something.

Although I thought the wedding came out of left field plot-wise, I still thought it was beautifully acted. So much emotion filling both their faces. But really: that scene could have been dropped into any episode, any season. 

[SunnyBeBe]

6 minutes ago, shura said:

That threw me too, I didn't realize she just flies in to see Stan once in a while. This is not at all like Deirdre's and Ben's deal in Topeka, right?

I am looking forward to Stan and Aderholdt storming a bathroom stall at JFK to grab the Soviet hockey guy and his pouch (yeah, I heard it). I like how Sofia was like "You rented this nice empty apartment in my building, huh... You know, I got a guy now. Gennady... Can the FBI help me with babysitting?"

I am a little surprised Philip even thought to have a church ceremony. I'm sure he was not brought up in the USSR thinking that this is how things should be, a religious ceremony per se probably means nothing to him and Elizabeth (as evidenced by his "I know, God, right?" to Elizabeth), it does not in itself make their marriage real. Funny, too, how the priest was telling them that, as soon as one of them gets to Moscow, they need to file the paperwork to make the marriage official with the Soviet state. But it really was something real for them, something they entered into as their real selves, without disguise. 

I didn't see a religious ceremony as something that P & E would be attracted to, but, hey......love makes you do crazy things.  (Not that a religious ceremony is crazy, but, E would have previously described it in negative terms.  She's never been secret about her viewpoint.)  

Ref. Deirdre's residence.  Stan met her at his gym.  That's how P met his current mark too, right?  lol  Okay.  When P said that he didn't want to see Stan end up like Martha, I got to thinking and trying to envision it.  Stan, cooking himself some tatters in a little old apt.  Naaaaa.....I think he'd bite the bullet and take a bullet or go to prison rather than go Russia.  UNLESS, they threatened his son.  He'd go to protect his on. 

I have a question about the woman Stan and Aderholdt are grooming. How do they get into that building without being seen?  If they are showing up once a week, wouldn't their appearances raise suspicion if she is being watched?  The minute the KGB saw Stan enter this building, they'd be all over it.  Maybe, I'm too paranoid.  It just seems like somewhere else might have been more prudent.  Like a room over the restaurant that she frequents. There would be legitimate reasons for people to go in to eat. 

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Pastor Tim's diary was a little hard line.  If he really feels like that then I really do wonder why he hasn't turned in the Jennings.  Unless he is as conflicted as everyone on the show and the diary is just his way of working his shit out.  

 

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

That was my thought.  He's using the diary to vent, and is actually extremely conflicted on how to deal with this situation.  Honestly, given his wife's freak out last season when Pastor Tim went missing in Africa, I presume both he and she are terrified as to what would happen if they gave any outward sign of being less than supportive of Paige. 

I liked that it seemed like a natural progression from the last time he and Paige talked and she seemed to be less than enthusiastic about praying. I've just always seen Pastor Tim as having a huge ego even when his intentions were good, and I can see him working himself into thinking he's worried about her soul in response to picking up on the fact that his influence with Paige is simply waning. If she was a regular teenager who was just getting bored with her religious phase he'd probably also have sad things to think about it. 

It also made me think that this was a real downside to religion. Like now on top of everything else she has to worry that her soul is in danger. 

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Apparently, I had the opposite reaction to the marriage scene as most of you.  I was in shock and then thought it a little funny.  All the talk about God, the Holy Spirit, etc.  That is just not E at all.  In fact, I was shocked that she would go for such a thing with a straight face.  Yes, she certainly loves P and she wanted to be married, but, all that religious talk......it really seemed like something that was NOT a P & E thing.  As long as they are happy......

 

I don't think there's any reason they'd react to the religious stuff as religious stuff. It's a wedding ceremony and that's the only thing they'd be getting out of it. Many people who aren't religious have church weddings. It was even better that it was so old-school with the chanted intonation etc. The ritual is the important part. And of course the fact that all this ritual was tied directly to Russian history--it's in Russian, they're using their real names, they're speaking their vows in the language, the rings (THANKS FOR THAT INFO PINK RIBBONS!) and the crowns. Doesn't matter if they aren't religious, that symbolism would still resonate for them. (They certainly knew what to say when.) That's going to make far more of an impression than the two of them smirking at references to Biblical figures. 

Which reminds me of how the show started with Philip drinking kvass and getting to enjoy it (remember when he had to pretend he wasn't a big fan of caviar that he actually liked with Stan?). I wondered if he had any Proust Madeleine moments there!

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I kept trying to imagine how enraged Paige would have been if someone had sneaked into her room and read her diary.  OMG.....she would have blown a gasket.  In fact, didn't that happen?  Did E read something that she had in her room some time ago?  I may have that mixed up with another similar teen.  She's so upset with Pastor Tim, but, she's the snoop.  I'll be glad to see Pastor Tim go, but, that girl needs to go to acting classes or something.

 

Heh. Yup. I think you're remembering when Elizabeth found Paige practicing her signature to sign her own permission slip for camp. Of course Paige was defiant about it and pointed out that she'd thrown it away.

 

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Alexei has done quite a 180 since the beginning of the season. I guess even in America life isn't that great when your wife and son hate you.

Also I think his attitude at the start was somewhat forced anyway. He was determined to quell any doubts he had by focusing on the positive of the US and the negative of the USSR. But of course he's homesick at times.

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I've never been a Paige fan, but, she was smart enough to recognize that Henry would be better off at boarding school.  Yay.

But then, that also supported her own angst position. Whether Henry would or wouldn't be better off at boarding school, this was a way to point out her own predicament. Henry would be getting away from the horrors that she faced at home and also she could point out how lucky he was to be a kid who knew what he wanted and knew where he "belonged." 

But I liked Philip's response that Henry was a kid. Throughout the show Philip almost never says anything about Henry besides that he's a kid, and therefore he could be anything. I hope they do eventually make something explicit out of this. Philip sees himself as having made a choice when he was a kid that he wasn't ready to make and he'd have good reason to see Henry doing the same thing.

Had Philip or Elizabeth ever had contact with anyone at the Rezidentura before this? I thought things were kept separate for everyone's security.

Yes, we've seen them do the rock drop before.

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, whiporee said:

The stuff in Moscow has to be going somewhere, but I can't at all figure how it merges into the overall story arc. It's deep and meaningful and all that, but we really didn't need to see two minutes of Oleg's family eating in silence. We don't know enough about any of them -- including Oleg -- to care that much. Seeing the rezidentura last night just reminds me how much a hole Oleg going to Moscow has left in the show. Not just because of him, but we used to have two levels of intrigue going on. Now we've got none.

It just might be possible (although very unlikely) that the stuff in Moscow may be a setup for us for a big and important surprise. There are any number of surprises that could happen.

1) Oleg's father could be guilty of participating in some scam with the food. It just might be him the KGB is investigating and not Oleg.  It could have been arranged for Oleg to join the KGB - not because someone wanted him to work for them - but because someone figured it would be a better way to keep a close eye on him in order to bust his father.

2) Even more likely ... Oleg's mother could be carrying a grudge and/or involved in some plot with some other people who have been imprisoned and have remained in prison in the past to "stick it to the Commie" (similar to "stick it to the man") and they may be planning to do something to get even with the bastards who imprisoned them and (probably) tortured them as well. The more I think of it, the more likely this may be a real possibility (going after his mother instead of his father). Why?

If I was Oleg's mother and I had been imprisoned and tortured by a bunch of Commie creeps, I would never forget and I would never forgive. What about you? Would you ever forgive? Would you ever come around to the POV that they were right and you were wrong? Would you ever decide that you had learned your lesson and the time was now right for you to kiss their (collective) asses?  Well ... I dunno ... but if it was me, I think the answer would be ... "NYET!!!" and ... Fuck 'em! as well.   I would be livid as well!  Livid as Hell! I would just be out of my mind angry!  I would be willing to give up my life just to get even with those creeps.

I wonder if anyone here has any specific ideas about any of the following questions:

1) What is it that Oleg's mother could have done during or after WW2 to get herself imprisoned and tortured?  How would Oleg's father have fit in? (He probably could not have participated if he then became a Transportation Minister. Or could he?)

2) Would she have deserved prison and/or torture for any of the possible reasons above?

3) What kind of plot could she have been secretly working on during all the years after the war and with whom would she be working and how much damage could they possibly do to the sitting Russian Government?

4) If she gets caught (which almost certainly will happen), what would it mean for Oleg and his dad? And, who else from Oleg's past would find out about this and how would it impact Philip and Elizabeth?

5) If I was Oleg's mom, I would have carried around a real serious plot to get even with the bastard Commies for messing up my life and my marriage and the death of my younger son would be a real big problem. I would want vengence with t a capital "V". How about you?

Anyway, I am not through my questions. Not by any means. But I don't know where to go from here. I'd love to hear from you. Do you think there might possibly be anything to my ruminations? Or am I just disappointed by a lack of action this season and clutching at straws? Am I just trying to generate some action - or engaging in some revenge fantasy?  I truly would love to know.

Edited May 10, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Chaos Theory]

I know it's been awhile but didn't Elizabeth think Clark and Martha's ceremony was vaguely sweet and wonder if there relationship (which was in crisis at the moment) would have been different if they had said the words.

i think this was them just saying the words.  

There are very few people who could legally do the ceremony and they wanted not Philip and Elizabeth to marrry or any of their American personalities but the people they really were so that left them with limited options.

[SunnyBeBe]

MissBluxom,

I am intrigued by the notion that perhaps Oleg's father could be in trouble with the KGB, as you suggested.  I had not considered that.  RECALL, that when Oleg got this job, the man told him to NOT BE SURPRISED at who was at the top of this? Also, in the scene last night around the dinner table with Oleg and his parents....the food seemed to be plentiful.  Just saying.....  WHY they are investigating Oleg is my most intriguing issue right now.  

[MisterBluxom]

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

It is weird how much I am siding with the hardline Russians and was rather offended for them even though Pastor Tim might not have been wrong.  P&E have found a reasonable way to get rid of Pastor Tim without killing him and have gotten Paige's permission to do it and at the same time bringing her further in the world.  Now that is a long con.  

Pastor Tim's diary was a little hard line.  If he really feels like that then I really do wonder why he hasn't turned in the Jennings.  Unless he is as conflicted as everyone on the show and the diary is just his way of working his shit out.  

 

Well, if you were a member of the flock belonging to Pastor Dim and you found out that he had turned in P & E, how would you feel about that? Supposing that you believed in all the background to the Church and the relationship between the Pastor and the Parishoners, how would that impact your belief system? Do you think that you would carry on just like before and that you would accept the Bastard Dim as your good friend and pastor and someone you could rely on and respect and trust?

Personally, I think that I would have gone out to a bake shop and purchased a big old Lemon Pie and taken it to church and walked up to Bastard Dim during his sermon and tossed it right into his squinty little face. How's about you?

Obviously, you can tell that I have no respect for the entire setup. But I think it would be wrong for me to carry on and talk about how terrible all religions may be because so many people do believe and respect the priests and pastors and it would be wrong for me to carry on and engage in a bunch of name calling. The members of this board who are "true believers" really do deserve better than that.

Edited May 10, 2017 by MissBluxom

[clb1016]

1 hour ago, whiporee said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one perturbed by the pace this season. We're watching grain grow. 

Claudia is really, really, really bad at running these two. She told a) and obvious lie about the grain b) an obvious lie about the disease and c) she didn't read the room at ALL in regards to telling them to keep fucking their grain-related marks. 

The stuff in Moscow has to be going somewhere, but I can't at all figure how it merges into the overall story arc. It's deep and meaningful and all that, but we really didn't need to see two minutes of Oleg's family eating in silence. We don't know enough about any of them -- including Oleg -- to care that much. Seeing the rezidentura last night just reminds me how much a hole Oleg going to Moscow has left in the show. Not just because of him, but we used to have two levels of intrigue going on. Now we've got none. 

On an over-reaching point, I think the runners have forgotten the central question of this show -- will these two wacky spies get caught? It's been a long time since we've had any real threat of that -- Groovyhair was the last real exposure threat P&E faced. We've had other sources of drama, but I think the farther the show gets from its central premise, the less urgency it has and therefore it becomes less compelling. The internal dynamics of P&E are interesting, but not compelling. What's compelling is these two people who are in a foreign land and trying to survive and undermine American influence, and how that all intersects with basic human decency and danger. We're just not seeing a lot of that this season, and it'd be nice to get back to it. 

The first season seemed to set the table for a show about two sleeper spies living next door to an FBI agent.  (Although I have to admit that I had a problem with Season 1 because P&E seemed more like a hit squad than spies.  I mean, really, what the hell was the body count for Season 1?)  The tension arose from the friendship between the two families and whether this would lead to Stan capturing P&E or P&E having to dispose of Stan; either outcome would be a huge betrayal leading to pain and heartache for the survivors.

Now Stan is basically a single guy living next door to his best friend Phil's family; he has't shown any suspicion of them in years; and if he eventually does catch on to them, it will only be because of info he gets from some other op he's running with another Russian immigrant.

Yes, Oleg needs to get back on American soil for more secret meetings with Stan.

And PLEASE, no more Paige.  The actor isn't up to the demands of the role.  TPTB should have recognized this a couple of seasons ago and done a work-around in terms of plotting.

[stagmania]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I framed it that way because I perceive it as a minority opinion. Not sure why you are taking offense to that statement. I'm trying not to impose my opinions on others who are enjoying this season. Its unfortunate that the forum is a "drag" for you. I welcome the discussion and the varied opinions. Please don't direct your unhappiness with this forum at me. I tried to state my comments as just that...my comments, my opinions. I had no intention of "framing" those comments as a general perspective of this show.

Apologies, my quickly typed response seems to have given the wrong impression-I did not take offense to your statement, and I wasn't intending to direct my thoughts about the forum specifically at you. I'm simply noting that over the last few weeks the discussion here has been overtaken by negativity. People are certainly entitled to their feelings about the show and to express it however they choose, but wading through the same repeated complaints every week is a bit draining, and can quickly kill any enthusiasm for discussion of the show, which I do actually enjoy (it's why I'm here!). 

38 minutes ago, shura said:

I am a little surprised Philip even thought to have a church ceremony. I'm sure he was not brought up in the USSR thinking that this is how things should be, a religious ceremony per se probably means nothing to him and Elizabeth (as evidenced by his "I know, God, right?" to Elizabeth), it does not in itself make their marriage real. Funny, too, how the priest was telling them that, as soon as one of them gets to Moscow, they need to file the paperwork to make the marriage official with the Soviet state. But it really was something real for them, something they entered into as their real selves, without disguise. 

I thought it was more that this ceremony was kind of his only option if he wanted a real marriage with their real names-it's not like they could do that at City Hall. And I imagine something about the deeply Russian ceremony was touching for them, and helped them connect back to their roots.

[misstwpherecool]

This whole season seems to be about laying down plot points so they can show them in the previous episode recaps before the new epi starts.

I think P just told E Stan is off limits period.

Also is this marriage "legal"? Is P thinking down the road a spouse doesn't have to testify against one another. Or was he worried about more zen moments with the wheat guy.

Poop in a locker just made a kid suicidal. Ironic because Taun is a piece of poop.

Did Oleg make an ally?

Defector smiles showing front teeth. lol

[TimWil]

Tweet by François Picard:

Stan Beeman for FBI Director.

[sistermagpie]

45 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

1) What is it that Oleg's mother could have done during or after WW2 to get herself imprisoned and tortured?  How would Oleg's father have fit in? (He probably could not have participated if he then became a Transportation Minister. Or could he?)

 

She didn't do anything. She was put in the camp to put pressure on her husband and keep him in line.

41 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I know it's been awhile but didn't Elizabeth think Clark and Martha's ceremony was vaguely sweet and wonder if there relationship (which was in crisis at the moment) would have been different if they had said the words.

 

Yup, she said that--this was I think definitely a call-back to that.

20 minutes ago, misstwpherecool said:

Also is this marriage "legal"? Is P thinking down the road a spouse doesn't have to testify against one another. Or was he worried about more zen moments with the wheat guy.

 

It's not legal--as the priest said, they'd have to file paperwork back in the USSR. But they would still be considered husband and wife in the US, I'd expect. They have a marriage license even if they didn't have a ceremony, it's not their real names and it's not filed anywhere that we know of. 

[shura]

3 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I thought it was more that this ceremony was kind of his only option if he wanted a real marriage with their real names-it's not like they could do that at City Hall. And I imagine something about the deeply Russian ceremony was touching for them, and helped them connect back to their roots.

Yes and no. For many Soviet citizens, especially of the kind P and E are, with their upbringing, a religious wedding was not really their roots. A Soviet person wouldn't automatically think "church" when thinking about getting married. They really would think "City Hall." One (Soviet) Russian word meaning "to make a marriage official" was "raspisat'sya," which literally means "to sign on the line." And Claudia or some other commanding officer from the embassy could probably officiate for them (provided it was permitted, desirable, precautions taken to protect their identities, etc.)

But I absolutely agree that, as a symbolic act, this was the best for Mikhail and Nadezhda. Nothing "official" or "legal," all that was irrelevant for them, I think. It was just real and true, with their real names, real language, real feelings. Even Elizabeth got into it.

[MisterBluxom]

41 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

MissBluxom,

I am intrigued by the notion that perhaps Oleg's father could be in trouble with the KGB, as you suggested.  I had not considered that.  RECALL, that when Oleg got this job, the man told him to NOT BE SURPRISED at who was at the top of this? Also, in the scene last night around the dinner table with Oleg and his parents....the food seemed to be plentiful.  Just saying.....  WHY they are investigating Oleg is my most intriguing issue right now.  

 

Well SUNNY,

I'm guessing that we stand alone in this. But wouldn't it be something if it came to pass that way? I am salivating at the thought. I will keeping a sharp eye out and looking for any further developments in this direction. I guess there isn't very much time to go. But, it sure would be fantastic if anything along these lines came to pass.

Here's hoping!

[Sighed I]

Well, put me into the "Loved This Episode" column. I haven't had time to post much, but I feel like the last few episodes have been really terrific and look forward to watching this one again tonight.

The wedding came as such a surprise and was mesmerizing, beautiful and romantic, no small feat considering the setting (Where were they anyway? An underground tunnel of some kind?). I've always felt Philip's love for Elizabeth has driven the development and growth of a real relationship between them; I find those moments when she recognizes, once again, the depth of his devotion so moving. It's like he keeps surprising her, and slowly but surely the real Nadezhda emerges, letting him deeper into her heart. Le sigh. ;)

I interpreted the Oleg and family dinner scene as none of them knowing what to say now that the truth about his mother's imprisonment was out. What was the reason for his father silently spooning another helping on their plates? I'm not sure. In some ways it seemed like a knee jerk reaction of a man of who's used to being in charge, kind of "I don't know what to say or do so I will do this relatively meaningless gesture because at least I'm doing something." Or perhaps it was an acknowledgment that "this shit is all kinds of awkward, but we are still a family". Of course, I could just be looking at this waaaay too deeply. ;)

Not super thrilled to have Paige back after such a brief respite, but I found her scenes better than usual this week. I loved the ending montage and am going to have to look for screencaps of Pastor Tim's diary. I rewound the scene and tried freezing the different shots, but it was hard pausing the DVR at exactly the right spot each time. I may be wrong, but I felt like that Philip at least recognized some of the truth in PT's words. I think Elizabeth did too, though to a much lesser extent, when she and Philip both look at Paige and she looks at them like, "yeah, Mom and Dad, this is kinda how I've been feeling; do you get it now?"

Is it just me, or does anyone else think with Claudia back in charge of P/E, PT's "job offer" will result in the Groovy family ending up six feet under?

[Ina123]

33 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Well, if you were a member of the flock belonging to Pastor Dim and you found out that he had turned in P & E, how would you feel about that? Supposing that you believed in all the background to the Church and the relationship between the Pastor and the Parishoners, how would that impact your belief system? Do you think that you would carry on just like before and that you would accept the Bastard Dim as your good friend and pastor and someone you could rely on and respect and trust?

While it would be doubtful that I would ever be a member of Pastor Tim's church (he's much too liberal for me), if I were to find out my pastor had turned in sleeper spies for the USSR I think I would stand up and cheer. There simply are lines that need crossing.

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

While it would be doubtful that I would ever be a member of Pastor Tim's church (he's much too liberal for me), if I were to find out my pastor had turned in sleeper spies for the USSR I think I would stand up and cheer. There simply are lines that need crossing.

I suspect the parishioners would be a lot more horrified to know he was protecting them. 

[Chaos Theory]

30 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

While it would be doubtful that I would ever be a member of Pastor Tim's church (he's much too liberal for me), if I were to find out my pastor had turned in sleeper spies for the USSR I think I would stand up and cheer. There simply are lines that need crossing.

I don't know my issue would be him breaking the seal of the confessional.  I know there is a line but where is it?  Would he rat me out for cheating?  If I confessed to a hit an run in my teen years?   I am not religious at all but I always thought that the confessional was one of those things that was sacred.  I would see Pastor Tim informing on anyone as a betrayal. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[SunnyBeBe]

I've always found it a little odd that Pastor Tim has so much alone time with Paige.  I can see it while at his house for babysitting, but, packing food boxes.  No one else to help? Just odd.  I guess it's needed to move the story along. 

I don't think that E or P believed the part that Claudia gave about that wheat strain being something that the Soviets were already working on.  lol  The look from E.....she knows that 's not true.  

[Ellaria]

55 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Apologies, my quickly typed response seems to have given the wrong impression-I did not take offense to your statement, and I wasn't intending to direct my thoughts about the forum specifically at you. I'm simply noting that over the last few weeks the discussion here has been overtaken by negativity. People are certainly entitled to their feelings about the show and to express it however they choose, but wading through the same repeated complaints every week is a bit draining, and can quickly kill any enthusiasm for discussion of the show, which I do actually enjoy (it's why I'm here!).

No need to apologize. It can be frustrating when others appear to be criticizing a show that you enjoy. Even though I am disappointed with this show this season, I still enjoy it and I look forward to watching it. (That probably sounds silly.) At its worst, it is still better than the vast majority of shows on TV.

The acting is terrific. KR's performance chills me to my bones. And MR is probably one of the best on TV right now. Stan's character arc frustrates me to no end...perhaps because I have spent too long anticipating the inevitable reveal that may never come.

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don't know my issue would be him breaking the seal of the confessional.  I know there is a line but where is it?  Would he rat me out for cheating?  If I confessed to a hit an run in my teen years?   I am not religious at all but I always thought that the confessional was one of those things that was sacred.  I would see Pastor Tim informing on anyone as a betrayal. 

I don't know if that would count as a seal of confessional. But clearly he's never been trustworthy entirely--he tells his wife things people tell him.

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don't think that E or P believed the part that Claudia gave about that wheat strain being something that the Soviets were already working on.  lol  The look from E.....she knows that 's not true.  

I don't think it was necessarily that they didn't think it was true but that it was a pathetic way to try to get them mad. They didn't "steal" the wheat just because it's that variety. Wheat isn't a state secret. They're testing different strains and that wheat was probably hardy. It was just a sad way to try to claim some credit for the stuff and make Philip and Elizabeth feel more invested in the thing. Especially since they'd get that stealing engineered wheat is stealing actual research.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Alexei has done quite a 180 since the beginning of the season. I guess even in America life isn't that great when your wife and son hate you.

Also I think his attitude at the start was somewhat forced anyway. He was determined to quell any doubts he had by focusing on the positive of the US and the negative of the USSR. But of course he's homesick at times.

There's also the fact that Alexei has been in the States for a while now and settled into a routine. It's not as easy to write off the stuff that bothers him as adjustment issues anymore.

The bullying of Pasha continues to make me sick. Wouldn't Alexei have enough clout to demand that Pasha go to a private school, or at least one where he would be happier?

1 hour ago, misstwpherecool said:

Also is this marriage "legal"? Is P thinking down the road a spouse doesn't have to testify against one another.

I suppose, depending on the situation, one of them could say, "Hey, we aren't legally married, so I'll be happy to testify," but in general, no one is going to ask for documentation. And spousal privilege is taken pretty seriously. I can't imagine Philip or Elizabeth turning on the other, though, unless it's something truly gigantic.

[Sighed I]

58 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

 

Well SUNNY,

I'm guessing that we stand alone in this. But wouldn't it be something if it came to pass that way? I am salivating at the thought. I will keeping a sharp eye out and looking for any further developments in this direction. I guess there isn't very much time to go. But, it sure would be fantastic if anything along these lines came to pass.

Here's hoping!

You're not alone. :) I remember throwing out the possibility several episodes ago, but I believe I posted late in the week and no one commented on it. IIRC, every time we see a dinner scene at Oleg's family's place, there's quite the quantity and variety of dishes spread out on the table. In any case, involved or not, the Minister (and his family) benefits greatly from the unequal distribution of food and resources.

That said, I'm also entertaining the notion that the KGB has gotten wind of the CIA's interest in Oleg and are sniffing around, trying to figure out why that is. As time goes on, the more I'm leaning in this direction, especially with his partner's line about Oleg having nothing to worry about as long as he didn't commit high treason. Hello, foreshadowing. Run, Oleg, run!

[tennisgurl]

Damn the shipper inside of me, that wedding got me freaking the hell out with glee. I swear, I'm watching this show as a great work of fiction filled with suspense and complicated issues surround right and wrong and identity and loyalty and all that jazz, but during that wedding, I just wanted Philip and Elizabeth to be happy! It was so sweet and meaningful, and while neither of them are religious, I can see why this meant something to them. They got to speak their real language and use their real names, which are things that they haven't gotten to actually do in years, and it just got me. P and E might have done horrible things, but I still love them and their connection to each other. Even Elizabeth seemed blown away by this level of romance! Oh Philip, you softie!

I'm so torn on this season. On the one hand, I love all the characters and am so invested in their struggles that I would totally watch them just sit around and make pasta, and I would still be revited. And I have a lot of faith in these writers that this is all, in fact, going somewhere. That all being said, this season is going SO slow. Even by this shows slow burn standards, this is just glacial. We have lots of plots going, but nothing has actually happened yet, and the season is getting close to the end! I know they cant all be as action and drama filled as last season, but something would be nice!

I have no idea what the deal was with Oleg and his parents eating dinner together in silence, or why his dad kept slopping food onto his plate. I think it could be read as "Oleg's dad wants to do something, even if its something random, to show that he still has some power and can provide for his family" or maybe "Eat lots of food now, son. Where you will probably be going, there wont be second helpings". Also, I know this has always been a thing on this show, but it seemed extra noticeable this episode, why the hell does Moscow always look like its being filtered through a blue lens? I get that they're trying to set a tone of a difficult and more somber place, but oh my God turn a light on every once in awhile! Was not one single human being in that city having a good day in the 80s? Is the sun just different in Moscow than anywhere else in the world? If I jumped on a plane right now and headed to Russia, would I get off the plane only to see the world turn blue? Does turning on a damn light conflict with party doctrine?

Philip feels all kinds of guilty about spying on Alexi, especially when he admitted that he felt homesick sometimes, no matter how much he rambles about how awesome the USA is and how the USSR is The Worst. And the return of Tatiana! I really miss the stuff at the Rezidentura this season.

I know that Paige was certainly psychologically damaged by finding out who her parents really are, but damn Groovy Hair. Worse than child molesters? That's going a bit far, isn't it Pastor? Maybe he was just venting, but it still seems to be a pretty intense assessment. I know P and E aren't exactly good guys, but they have tried to be good parents and they very much love their kids. Plus, from everything we`ve seen, they've both been in the KGB since they were very young, and have been trained and indoctrinated into this life for most of their lives, and while this doesn't really excuse the bad things they've done, it does add some sympathy for them to me, and it explains why they keep doing this despite their conflicted feelings. This is all they know. I guess Groovy Hair couldn't have known all that, but still.

[MisterBluxom]

14 minutes ago, Sighed I said:

You're not alone. :) I remember throwing out the possibility several episodes ago, but I believe I posted late in the week and no one commented on it. IIRC, every time we see a dinner scene at Oleg's family's place, there's quite the quantity and variety of dishes spread out on the table. In any case, involved or not, the Minister (and his family) benefits greatly from the unequal distribution of food and resources.

That said, I'm also entertaining the notion that the KGB has gotten wind of the CIA's interest in Oleg and are sniffing around, trying to figure out why that is. As time goes on, the more I'm leaning in this direction, especially with his partner's line about Oleg having nothing to worry about as long as he didn't commit high treason. Hello, foreshadowing. Run, Oleg, run!

Oh dear. Please excuse me. I really can't stand it when I come up with an idea that I think is original and then I see someone else posting that same idea and claiming it was their idea.

If I did that to you, then I must apologize to you intensely and profusely.  I do hope you will accept my apology. It was definitely not intentional.

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I suspect the parishioners would be a lot more horrified to know he was protecting them. 

But .. but .. but .. my recollection is not exactly crystal clear. But I don't believe he was ever told they were "sleeper spies".

In fact, I don't believe he was ever told they were spies of any kind.

My recollection is that he was told they "work for a foreign government" and that could include all kinds of things. For example ... oh dear ... I better stop here before I get into some serious trouble because I truly just do not remember exactly what he was told.

I must retract my previous statements if indeed he was ever told they murdered people or that they actively engaged in treason against the USA. Treason would definitely consist of working as spies for the USSR. I sure do hope he was never told they worked as spies. But I just don't remember.  Maybe I will try to go back and find out the exact wording of what Paige told him.

After all, when talking to a priest or a lawyer and being promised "legal confidentiality", I'm pretty sure that does not include any confessions of murder or treason. If you are talking with a priest or a lawyer and you are told that you have "client confidentiality", and then you tell the lawyer or the priest that you are planning to murder someone or engage in acts of treason against your country, I think it's pretty clear they should and they will turn you in for that.

If I previously posted remarks that said Pastor Tim would be wrong for turning in the Jennings after he was informed they had done either of those two things, then I must retract those statements and apologize.

Edited May 10, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Sighed I]

19 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Oh dear. Please excuse me. I really can't stand it when I come up with an idea that I think is original and then I see someone else posting that same idea and claiming it was their idea.

If I did that to you, then I must apologize to you intensely and profusely.  I do hope you will accept my apology. It was definitely not intentional.

No need to apologize!! Great minds think alike and all that ;) Plus it's nice to know it's not just me kicking the theory around.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Sighed I

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

But .. but .. but .. my recollection is not exactly crystal clear. But I don't believe he was ever told they were "sleeper spies".

In fact, I don't believe he was ever told they were spies of any kind.

Yes, he knows they're spies. He claims he "knows what spies do." So no, he doesn't know any specific things they've done, including murder, but he immediately suspected bad stuff and certainly knows they're committing treason. His wife made it even more clear she knows exactly what they are.

Also, they're not sleeper spies. They're actively spying.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I liked that we got to see a light shone on Pastor Tim's dark thoughts in the "Darkroom." Elizabeth was certainly correct that we all hold part of ourselves back. For good reason, too. I don't think finding out your parents are Russian spies is anywhere near sexual abuse. What about kids whose parents are in the FBI or CIA, like Kimmy?  Obviously, that is not a crime but the parallels are there.  Their parents may keep it a secret to protect their kids and to protect their "mission." That also betrays their trust but for the same valid reasons. Would Pastor Tim really write all the same things about Kimmy and her situation? It makes me wonder how much he understands about Elizabeth and Philip. Maybe he totally gets it and is rightfully scared to turn them in. Or maybe he doesn't really get it and is just "holier-than-thou."

I think Paige watching her parents develop those pictures was the closest she's been to seeing them in action, doing their job. Even watching Elizabeth kill their attacker and getting self-defense training is more about protecting Paige than it is a showcase for Elizabeth's spy skills.

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But then, that also supported her own angst position. Whether Henry would or wouldn't be better off at boarding school, this was a way to point out her own predicament. Henry would be getting away from the horrors that she faced at home and also she could point out how lucky he was to be a kid who knew what he wanted and knew where he "belonged." 

I thought it interesting that she used the word "different" to describe Henry. I think one interpretation of that could be that Paige sees herself and her parents as needing to be committed to a noble cause, whereas Henry is more superficial, so to speak. He would be fine in a boarding school bubble, not really questioning it but unquestionably benefiting from it. I don't necessarily see Henry that way and Philip is right, he is still a kid so it's probably unfair to put him in that box.

[teddysmom]

Quote

On an over-reaching point, I think the runners have forgotten the central question of this show -- will these two wacky spies get caught? 

ITA.  Previous seasons have been full of "omg are they going to get caught, is Martha going to figure this out, etc." 

This season it's "how much longer can we lie about this wheat fiasco", "I'm kinda into Tai-Chi,  wink wink, if you really want to know"  "Will you marry me in the basement of an abandoned warehouse? I know it's not Vegas, or Niagara Falls, or even our backyard, but imagine tying someone up and torturing them for information in the corner over there. It'll be like our first date". 

[MisterBluxom]

This is so embarrassing for me because this is my favorite TV show of them all. My face is red.

I just watched the end of Season 3 Episode 13 and Paige is on the phone talking to PT and she tells him, "They're not who they say they are. They are Russians."

I didn't watch the entire episode. But I did listen to that conversation and I did not hear Paige tell PT that Phillip & Elizabeth are spies. If someone did tell him that P &T are spies, it must have happened in some other conversation. If anyone knows exactly what he was told and who told him, I sure would appreciate knowing when and where that happened. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by MissBluxom

[AV8n]

I'm waiting for the big clergy showdown between Pastor Tim and Father Andrei. My money's on the Russian.

Speaking of betting, what are the odds that Oleg isn't his father's son? His mother said she did what she had to do to survive the labor camp - and I didn't get the impression that meant washing dishes.

[MisterBluxom]

2 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

ITA.  Previous seasons have been full of "omg are they going to get caught, is Martha going to figure this out, etc." 

This season it's "how much longer can we lie about this wheat fiasco", "I'm kinda into Tai-Chi,  wink wink, if you really want to know"  "Will you marry me in the basement of an abandoned warehouse? I know it's not Vegas, or Niagara Falls, or even our backyard, but imagine tying someone up and torturing them for information in the corner over there. It'll be like our first date". 

You know, we've seen other shows end that never just answer the central question. I think we might just have to prepare ourselves for something similar here. It may be possible this show will end and we just won't ever find out if they get caught. In a way, that might be a reasonable ending since many spies working in another country just never do get caught. They just kind of disappear from sight and no one knows what happened to them. Given that is true, then P & E just might disappear into the woodwork. I bet many people will feel outraged if that should happen. But I think we just might have to prepare ourselves for that eventuality.

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I didn't watch the entire episode. But I did listen to that conversation and I did not hear Paige tell PT that Phillip & Elizabeth are spies. If someone did tell him that P &T are spies, it must have happened in some other conversation. If anyone knows exactly what he was told and who told him, I sure would appreciate knowing when and where that happened. 

Season four establishes that Pastor Tim knows that they're spies. He even says, when Philip and Elizabeth try to hedge it, that he "knows what spies do." He tries to get Paige to find out specifically what they're doing. Then they bring him a guy from El Salvador who claims that the Soviets saved him. Alice later accuses the Soviets of murdering her husband because he knows too much.

So yes, there is no doubt that Pastor Tim knows that they are spies, whatever that means to him. The phone call from Paige left open the possibility that he might just think they were Russians, but season four did away with that. We didn't see anyone tell him this, it was just established that he understood it.

[MisterBluxom]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

Season four establishes that Pastor Tim knows that they're spies. He even says, when Philip and Elizabeth try to hedge it, that he "knows what spies do." He tries to get Paige to find out specifically what they're doing. Then they bring him a guy from El Salvador who claims that the Soviets saved him. Alice later accuses the Soviets of murdering her husband because he knows too much.

So yes, there is no doubt that Pastor Tim knows that they are spies, whatever that means to him. The phone call from Paige left open the possibility that he might just think they were Russians, but season four did away with that. We didn't see anyone tell him this, it was just established that he understood it.

Thank you Sistermagpie.

[kokapetl]

48 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Damn the shipper inside of me, that wedding got me freaking the hell out with glee. I swear, I'm watching this show as a great work of fiction filled with suspense and complicated issues surround right and wrong and identity and loyalty and all that jazz, but during that wedding, I just wanted Philip and Elizabeth to be happy! It was so sweet and meaningful, and while neither of them are religious, I can see why this meant something to them. They got to speak their real language and use their real names, which are things that they haven't gotten to actually do in years, and it just got me. P and E might have done horrible things, but I still love them and their connection to each other. Even Elizabeth seemed blown away by this level of romance! Oh Philip, you softie!

I'm so torn on this season. On the one hand, I love all the characters and am so invested in their struggles that I would totally watch them just sit around and make pasta, and I would still be revited. And I have a lot of faith in these writers that this is all, in fact, going somewhere. That all being said, this season is going SO slow. Even by this shows slow burn standards, this is just glacial. We have lots of plots going, but nothing has actually happened yet, and the season is getting close to the end! I know they cant all be as action and drama filled as last season, but something would be nice!

I have no idea what the deal was with Oleg and his parents eating dinner together in silence, or why his dad kept slopping food onto his plate. I think it could be read as "Oleg's dad wants to do something, even if its something random, to show that he still has some power and can provide for his family" or maybe "Eat lots of food now, son. Where you will probably be going, there wont be second helpings". Also, I know this has always been a thing on this show, but it seemed extra noticeable this episode, why the hell does Moscow always look like its being filtered through a blue lens? I get that they're trying to set a tone of a difficult and more somber place, but oh my God turn a light on every once in awhile! Was not one single human being in that city having a good day in the 80s? Is the sun just different in Moscow than anywhere else in the world? If I jumped on a plane right now and headed to Russia, would I get off the plane only to see the world turn blue? Does turning on a damn light conflict with party doctrine?

Philip feels all kinds of guilty about spying on Alexi, especially when he admitted that he felt homesick sometimes, no matter how much he rambles about how awesome the USA is and how the USSR is The Worst. And the return of Tatiana! I really miss the stuff at the Rezidentura this season.

I know that Paige was certainly psychologically damaged by finding out who her parents really are, but damn Groovy Hair. Worse than child molesters? That's going a bit far, isn't it Pastor? Maybe he was just venting, but it still seems to be a pretty intense assessment. I know P and E aren't exactly good guys, but they have tried to be good parents and they very much love their kids. Plus, from everything we`ve seen, they've both been in the KGB since they were very young, and have been trained and indoctrinated into this life for most of their lives, and while this doesn't really excuse the bad things they've done, it does add some sympathy for them to me, and it explains why they keep doing this despite their conflicted feelings. This is all they know. I guess Groovy Hair couldn't have known all that, but still.

I adjust my TV before and after watching this show.

[teddysmom]

Quote

I'm pretty sure that does not include any confessions of murder or treason.

Actually with an attorney, that's exactly what it means. If you tell them you're planning on doing something and someone could get harmed, they have an obligation as officer of the court to report it. But if you hire an attorney, and tell them you already committed a crime, it's client/attorney privilege.  

[dubbel zout]

For Catholics, at least, the sanctity of the confessional is inviolate. A priest cannot reveal what was said. The most he can do is urge the person to go to the police and tell them what was done. 

That said, it's possible there are priests who decide that it's worth the consequences for breaking the seal of confession. 

[Ellaria]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Did you catch when Stan's girlfriend said that she wasn't available the following week, because she had to go home? What home? I thought she lived locally?  I wonder if she will be followed to this so called home.

I did catch it. My initial interpretation of that line is that she was going to the home she grew up in, where her parents live. (When my parents were still alive, I always referred to that house - the house that I grew up in - as home.) Regardless, it was odd phrasing. If she was going to visit Mom and Dad, why not say that?

And that makes two curious remarks from Renee, including the "U of I" one. I dismissed this remark because there is no way that the casual viewer thought twice about it. But maybe it shouldn't be dismissed. Everything on this show is deliberate so perhaps the odd phrasing of these remarks is important.

[kokapetl]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't know if that would count as a seal of confessional. But clearly he's never been trustworthy entirely--he tells his wife things people tell him.

I don't think it was necessarily that they didn't think it was true but that it was a pathetic way to try to get them mad. They didn't "steal" the wheat just because it's that variety. Wheat isn't a state secret. They're testing different strains and that wheat was probably hardy. It was just a sad way to try to claim some credit for the stuff and make Philip and Elizabeth feel more invested in the thing. Especially since they'd get that stealing engineered wheat is stealing actual research.

Tim's excuse for telling his wife was that he and his wife minister each other.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Dear Diary, Is This Season Of The Americans Ever Going To Get Started?

Paige gets her grubby mitts back on Pastor Groovyhair's diary and does not like what she reads, Tuan escalates hostilities toward Pasha, Philip has a weird surprise for his 'wife,' and it all feels like hiking through wet cement.

[kokapetl]

Just now, Tara Ariano said:

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Dear Diary, Is This Season Of The Americans Ever Going To Get Started?

Paige gets her grubby mitts back on Pastor Groovyhair's diary and does not like what she reads, Tuan escalates hostilities toward Pasha, Philip has a weird surprise for his 'wife,' and it all feels like hiking through wet cement.

You kind of look like Martha. 

[Umbelina]

8 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

It is weird how much I am siding with the hardline Russians and was rather offended for them even though Pastor Tim might not have been wrong.  P&E have found a reasonable way to get rid of Pastor Tim without killing him and have gotten Paige's permission to do it and at the same time bringing her further in the world.  Now that is a long con.  

Pastor Tim's diary was a little hard line.  If he really feels like that then I really do wonder why he hasn't turned in the Jennings.  Unless he is as conflicted as everyone on the show and the diary is just his way of working his shit out.  

That's another of the  many problems I had with this episode.  How is letting Tim get far away from Paige and the Jennings careful grooming and observation of him in any way, in any universe, safe for them?  Ship him off to some other country and he's much more likely to lose that Paige connection he has, and simply say "Holy shit!  This is nuts!  I've got to get to the embassy and turn those sons'a'bitches in!" 

It is simply not logical.  Kill him or keep him close.

7 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

This isn’t going to be a popular opinion but this season has been a disappointment for me. As always, there are great character moments - like tonight’s wedding scene - but I’m not invested in seeing some of these story lines move forward.

Tuan is a creep. Yes, he has a sad history but so does nearly character in the show. I’m disturbed that P&E are going along with the bullying of Pasha. I like Oleg but enough of the hushed conversations in cars, darkened streets, etc. Importantly, we now know Stan and Aderholt rent a swanky apartment in the same building as Sofia.

We get another double date with Stan and Renee that serves little purpose other than to tease viewers - and Phillip - with the “is she or isn’t she a spy” question. At this point, I no longer care. And the wheat plot will be returning. Thanks, Claudia!

In the past, the show maintained a balance between family drama and spy drama. This season, not so much. I don’t need James Bond type of action. I need a little more intrigue. I need less talking and fewer worried glances between characters. That isn’t a substitute for tension. And, most of all, I need a lot less of Paige. Perhaps they can send her off to boarding school with Henry. 

For me, Matthew Rhys is the heart of this show and he never disappoints. It is fascinating to watch the battle he is facing within himself. 

Exactly.  I have no problem with the acting on this show other than the woefully inadequate Paige.  I love long slow scenes that breathe.  However, this season?  They are breathing so much they are using up all the oxygen in the room.  Enough already!  Do something!~

Dangling plot points everywhere.  Lies everywhere, but not the good kind that smart people would actually be looking into, just lies, lies, lies and any one of them can pan out of fizzle, and our fearless leaders sleepwalk through it all.  Red herrings and partially told boring stories everywhere, nothing resolved. 

Sorry, the wedding didn't do much for me, other than being somewhat interesting to watch a different ceremony.  It was fucking endless.  I get why they used the priest and a religious ceremony, it was the only way to use their real names and he was oh-so-handy being left with no handler and contacting Philip.  Yawn.

The pace of the show has been off all season, just whack compared to other seasons.  Nothing is resolved ever, and oh yay!  More wheat!  I mean, I agree, probably Claudia is lying her ass off to them about the real reason for their need to maintain contact with those marks, but at this point?  SO?  Do I care?  No, not really.

DO SOMETHING!

5 hours ago, teddysmom said:

I'm all for letting a story unfold but Jesus H Christ this is ridiculous. It's like FX gave them three extra episodes when they'd only written for ten. "Do we have B roll of Phillip driving around DC?" "How about Paige mopping the floor? Can we stretch that an extra 30 seconds?" "Let's have Elizabeth get highlights in real time, that'll take at least two hours".

Seriously!  Endless chanting wedding.  Endless silent dinner.  The PTV recap nailed this episode for me this week.  The damn pot has been cooking long enough, either serve the food inside, or toss it out because it's getting moldy now.

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

No need to apologize. It can be frustrating when others appear to be criticizing a show that you enjoy. Even though I am disappointed with this show this season, I still enjoy it and I look forward to watching it. (That probably sounds silly.) At its worst, it is still better than the vast majority of shows on TV.

The acting is terrific. KR's performance chills me to my bones. And MR is probably one of the best on TV right now. Stan's character arc frustrates me to no end...perhaps because I have spent too long anticipating the inevitable reveal that may never come.

The only real tension for me right now, and it's not the good kind, is that poor woman Stan and Aderholt are using.  I care more about her than just about anyone else on screen right now.  So, kudos for that one. 

I actually still like Oleg's story in Russia as well, though not the ridiculously time wasting dinner scene. 

I did care about Stan's girlfriend, but at this point I'm just getting pissed off with that.  How many episodes now? 

Whatever happened to Misha?

This entire season, as I said in an early episode post and seems more true now than ever, is like endless foreplay.  Enough!  I'm getting bored and sore now, I want a damn orgasm!  Or a few of them.  Weeks of foreplay alone may sound fun, but honestly it's more annoying and frustrating than "fun."

This show used to have an amazing balance, and even better pacing.  Long slow detailed nuanced scenes, but they were also relieved by action, by tension, by stakes and consequences and by danger and unexpected side effects.  They've lost all of that and substituted suspicion, and endlessly cooking pots that may or may not ever be served.  Weeks of Misha escaping and nothing.  Weeks of Stan's girlfriend's suspicion and nothing.  Etc.  And now?  The fucking WHEAT is back!  arrrghhh

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

There's also the fact that Alexei has been in the States for a while now and settled into a routine. It's not as easy to write off the stuff that bothers him as adjustment issues anymore.

The bullying of Pasha continues to make me sick. Wouldn't Alexei have enough clout to demand that Pasha go to a private school, or at least one where he would be happier?

I suppose, depending on the situation, one of them could say, "Hey, we aren't legally married, so I'll be happy to testify," but in general, no one is going to ask for documentation. And spousal privilege is taken pretty seriously. I can't imagine Philip or Elizabeth turning on the other, though, unless it's something truly gigantic.

Anyone would get that kid out of that school.  It's an incredibly easy solution.  Another frustration.  Another way to drag everything out, and frankly, way too convenient for this show.   I enjoy the homesick part of that family's story, and frankly, I even enjoy the family, the conflicted and guilty mother, the once so hopeful dad. 

It's just not working for me somehow.  All the pieces are there, the acting is wonderful, but it's like putting great ingredients in that ever cooking pot but they just don't come together to make anything you actually want to eat.  Tasty lobster, with kiwi, Cheerios, a loaded burrito, Ben and Jerry's Cherry Garcia, eggs Benedict, and a dash of sriracha with sprinkles on top.  Simmering away for weeks.

I love this show, I looked forward to this show for most of a year.  I'll stick with this show until the end.

This season though?  Blows.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Umbelina
? not .

[Ina123]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don't know my issue would be him breaking the seal of the confessional.  I know there is a line but where is it?  Would he rat me out for cheating?  If I confessed to a hit an run in my teen years?   I am not religious at all but I always thought that the confessional was one of those things that was sacred.  I would see Pastor Tim informing on anyone as a betrayal. 

My faith doesn't require me to confess anything except to God, so I don't worry about it. People fail you. Counseling is different when you need help. I just don't tell what I don't want told.

Paige has the misfortune of learning this a little late, but she's a child.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Ina123