S03.E03: Crazy Whitefella Thinking

[tennisgurl]

I'm not all that invested in the crazed ramblings of Kevin Senior for an hour, but it was still an interesting episode with a whole lot going on. I will say, as much as this show takes weird turns and spends whole episodes and sequences on the lives of random people doing weird things, I never feel like its padding or that I'm wasting time. If nothing else, its sets a mood, and that's a HUGE part of the success of the show.

The story Grace told about her children wasting away waiting for her was brutal. Maybe one of the nastiest disappearance stories we have seen yet. Introduce this lady to Nora, maybe Nora will feel a bit better about her life. At least she didn't accidently let her kids starve/overheat to death. The actress did a great job capturing her heartbreak  and horror, years later, and I totally buy this woman jumping on the first, bizarre opportunity to find some meaning or get back to her kids. If only she knew that cast members from Perfect Strangers are the ones to look to about that.

I got some dark giggles out of Kevin Seniors Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Day. I mean, he fell off a roof and crushed the elder who was supposed to teach him the song he wanted to know! Then gets bit by his spirit animal or whatever. And, my favorite, he threw away Matts book after throwing a fit about him not being the star of the new Bible, and Matt tells him to fuck himself! Damn, he pissed Matt off. This is the guy who spent all of the first season getting screamed at and punched in the face, which he answered by turning the other cheek. Mainly because Kevin Senior is a dick. I know that most everyone on this show is some form of dick, but his dick qualities tend to override any better ones we have seen, unlike the other characters. He seemed so angry that he wasn't in Matts Bible, it makes his whole quest seem like one half delusions, and one half self importance. Its all about him, and when the Bible he had previously thought was going to be a Big Deal doesn't have him as the hero? He announces its wrong and he throws it away.

The think the face of the Aboriginal cop when he found Kevin Senior dancing around the fire pretty much summed him up. Utter confusion and irritation. That's pretty much how most characters deal with him. I think he probably is some kind of prophet to Saint Kevin of Texas, and I think he's also pretty much crazy. The trick is finding out which parts are actual prophesy, and which parts are crazy talk. Most of it seems to be crazy talk. I assume the aboriginal stuff was just things that the voices told him, and it has nothing to do with their actual culture. Even Chris seemed like he was basically humoring him. I think Kevin Senior did his part in this whole thing by getting Kevin Junior to the Assassin hotel where he can raise from the dead.

I was super confused by the time frame here. He finds a bunch of older versions of Graces dead kids building an arc? I would not be at all surprised if we found out they were a delusion. And I thought last weeks ending was in the future, when Nora was old and in Australia? Maybe he is moving through time. I would buy it.

[maystone]

Guys, I'm pretty sure that Kevin Sr. had the only copy of the book, as in Matt losing his shit when KS says he threw it in the trash and Matt screams "That was the only copy!" Followed by a heartfelt "Fuck you!" As to Michael, he was checking out The Mapleton Gazette on his laptop when Kevin walked in on them.

I also don't for a minute believe that Matt is a serial liar. An asshole? Yeah, sure, but outright liar? Nah. He believes fervently in a god who intervenes in history, and he believes that his and Nora's parents were in heaven while their bodies burned in that house.

On another topic, did anyone else think that Grace's church looked a lot like the church that Sarah/Nora biked to in the future? At first I shrugged it off because Nora's church was in a lush area bordered by a large body of water, and Grace's church is in the desert. Buuut if that apocalyptic flood really did happen, then it could have turned the desert green and created an inland lake. But then if the flood was that catastrophic it would have taken out that little church. Still, I want to think that it has to mean something - which is what almost everyone in The Leftovers is trying to prove to themselves, too. This show is going to make me as crazy as they are.

[Canada]

Well, that's an hour of my life I'll never get back.

[Clanstarling]

17 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

YES. I have loved him as an actor, especially in Silence of the Lambs, but Urban Cowboy ruined me for life.

I didn't see Urban Cowboy because I'm not fond of Travolta or Winger, so The Right Stuff is where I know and love him frm.

10 hours ago, maystone said:

 I really don't get the timing, though. Nora had the book in Don't Be Ridiculous. That scene was two days before Nora and Kevin head to Australia. Kevin Sr. gets the only copy of that same book by general delivery in the Outback somewhere in enough time for Scott to wander the wilderness (as biblical prophets are prone to do), stumble up against Grace's memorial cross and have Grace read the one page of the book and commence to build an ark. So KevinJr would have had to have given the book back to Matt before he and Nora left for Australia in order for Matt to have sent it to KevinSr in the Outback to set that whole scenario in motion. I just don't get it.

My take that this episode started weeks before the last episode and ended the morning after the last episode.

9 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

I'm wondering if Matt's childhood leukemia has come back? The nosebleed, him wrapped in a sweaty blanket in the middle of the night... 

Also wonder if the man in the outback with the VW that set himself on fire is foreshadowing Kevin Sr having to kill his own son for the sake of humanity. The man asked Sr if he would "kill a baby to cure cancer". Matt and Sr also discussed Abraham sacrificing his son. 

I thought Matt's condition was strange - and wondered if that foreshadows whatever happens when Mary leaves Jardin.

I wondered who was asking the question about whether you'd kill a baby to save humanity.

Parts of this were very interesting, but I did get a little tired of the episode being focused on a single character.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, maystone said:

Guys, I'm pretty sure that Kevin Sr. had the only copy of the book, as in Matt losing his shit when KS says he threw it in the trash and Matt screams "That was the only copy!" . . .

I thought it was the only "copy" as in Matt gave the original to Kevin Jr. and then sent the only copy of the original to Kevin Sr. No?

I'm also thinking Michael could have a copy. There's an app that will save phone camera pictures of text as PDFs.

Kevin Sr. was clearly meant to be the embodiment of all utterly irritating, homeless talkative winos (or burned out users of recreational drugs) or just far enough into dementia that their prejudices keep surfacing in embarassing ways. But I also thought that he was a personification of Lindlehoff, the scorned writer of Lost.

With it being a last season, I sort of wished Kevin Sr. had at least hallucinated (if not actually met up with) Lost's John Locke on his walkabout.

It does seem like we're rapidly sliding down into a figurative ravine (or maybe the Okanagan lake) of Lindlehoff's making, at the bottom of which will be Kevin Jr. clinging to a raft like out of The Titanic with a flashback to a news report of world leaders pushing the buttons that don't summon servants with a Coke or a Pepsi.

Edited May 2, 2017 by shapeshifter

[Cardie]

47 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I wondered who was asking the question about whether you'd kill a baby to save humanity.

Thinking more about it, I speculate that he may have tried to go through the machine Mark Linn-Baker told Nora about. Perhaps they do qualification interviews as part of their scam so as not to look too eager to incinerate people. I can't imagine the man still being that distraught over not being taken by the Sudden Departure, although that trauma doesn't disappear even after 7 years, as the rest of the show demonstrates.

I could almost feel the heat of the desert Kevin was trudging through, then learned that they filmed during Australia's winter and everyone was freezing. Good job on the acting and cinematography. And I can't believe the paramedic would really strand an injured old man out in the middle of nowhere--even though Kevin Sr. can easily get on a person's last nerve.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

14 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

I'm wondering if Matt's childhood leukemia has come back? The nosebleed, him wrapped in a sweaty blanket in the middle of the night... 

Also wonder if the man in the outback with the VW that set himself on fire is foreshadowing Kevin Sr having to kill his own son for the sake of humanity. The man asked Sr if he would "kill a baby to cure cancer". Matt and Sr also discussed Abraham sacrificing his son. 

Yeah...you all who have said that Matt's cancer is coming back/came back.....I didn't want to belive it. But I do now. I'm pretty sure it's back now.

10 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

Instead of asking Sr if he would "kill a baby to cure cancer", perhaps  outback VW guy ( that set himself afire) should have asked him if he would kill his own baby to save the world?! 

It would make sense if this was an allusion to Kevin Sr having to kill (or thinking he has to kill) Kevin Jr. Good catch. 

[stagmania]

11 hours ago, maystone said:

I also don't for a minute believe that Matt is a serial liar. An asshole? Yeah, sure, but outright liar? Nah. He believes fervently in a god who intervenes in history, and he believes that his and Nora's parents were in heaven while their bodies burned in that house.

How does that preclude him from being a liar? He lies all the time when he thinks it's in service of his cause or building his church-we've seen it.

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But I also thought that he was a personification of Lindlehoff, the scorned writer of Lost.

What does this mean? Lindelof is nothing like Kevin Sr. (there are lots of interviews with him that you can read/listen to). And I don't think you can call a mega successful showrunner "scorned" just because some Lost fans are still mad. He's currently running the most critically acclaimed show on the most critically acclaimed network on television. Buddy is doing just fine.

[Milburn Stone]

20 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Every other aboriginal person, from the police, to the office manager, to the ambulance attendant, loathed what [Sr.] was trying to do.

This brings up that I got some learning from this episode. Namely, I never knew aboriginals in Australia occupied regular 21st century jobs! Having never been down under myself, I always thought--up until last night--that all aboriginals lived primitively. That thought was so entrenched in me since my childhood in the mid-20th century that I initially found the appearance of these various characters confusing. Grateful for the education.

As for whether Kevin Sr. has the "right" to study and even make use of the cultural traditions of the aboriginals, I agree with @LydiaE above.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[WaltersHair]

I just watched the movie Strangerland with Nicole Kidman and Joseph Fiennes. Two of their kids go missing and a local aboriginal suggests singing traditional songs to bring them back Maybe that's what Kevin Sr is really doing.

Also, the cancer question is stupid. There are hundreds of cancers with different morphologies, treatments, aggressiveness,  prognoses, etc.

Edited May 2, 2017 by WaltersHair

[Joimiaroxeu]

This was a disturbing episode to me. They really seem to be trying to make the case that having religious faith = insanity, or at least some degree of mental illness.

I'm starting to get reminded why I stopped watching Lost. That time I saw the mindfcukery coming not far into the first season. With Leftovers I got successfully sucked in and am not feeling particularly great about it right now.

Powerful work from Glenn. Looks like his Emmy reel will be well-stocked.

[smcallah]

15 hours ago, maystone said:

Guys, I'm pretty sure that Kevin Sr. had the only copy of the book, as in Matt losing his shit when KS says he threw it in the trash and Matt screams "That was the only copy!" Followed by a heartfelt "Fuck you!" As to Michael, he was checking out The Mapleton Gazette on his laptop when Kevin walked in on them.

I'm not sure why almost everyone here thinks that Matt sent Kevin Sr the only copy of the book.  When Kevin Sr. calls Matt the second time, Matt clearly says "Could you send the photocopy of the book back to me? I gave the original to..."  And then is cut off.  Apparently he was about to say he gave the original to Kevin Jr.

[Blakeston]

21 hours ago, LydiaE said:

Kevin Sr. is possibly deranged. The voices--either real or imagined-- instructed him to travel to Australia.  He then perceived he needed to procure ancient bits of wisdom to halt a catastrophic flood. That's all there was to it.

A man who is desperate, or crazy, doesn't give a flip about politics, sociology, political correctness, or whether he's trespassing on what is essentially a reservation. He's got tunnel vision. Politics are useless and tedious in an end of world scenario.

This is why the notion that a "white" man stealing wisdom from "brown" people is absurd. If Kevin Jrs mother happened to be a Black woman, I'm fairly certain Kevin Sr would still think Kevin Jr is some sort of messiah. 

The killing of the tribal elder was accidental, but Kevin Srs lack of emotion regarding the death proves that Kev Sr views individuals as a means to an end, not that he's a crazy white dude trying to steal the mojo of various races of people. He simply said he was looking for purpose.

I didn't see anyone here claiming that Kevin Sr. was specifically motivated by racism.

But he was still an outsider to a culture claiming to be a tribal elder, spying on ceremonies he wasn't invited to, and trespassing on aboriginal lands. He was being disrespectful to say the very least.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Blakeston

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Leftovers Finds A State Of Grace

She's having a really bad seven years.

[Cardie]

4 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Also, the cancer question is stupid. There are hundreds of cancers with different morphologies, treatments, aggressiveness,  prognoses, etc.

It's not a scientific question but a moral one. If there were some all-powerful being who could wipe out cancer with as much ease as it disappeared 2% of Earth's population, and it would do so if you killed a child, would you kill that child? That the quid pro quo would work is a given in the thought experiment. The question is whether one innocent life is too steep a price to eliminate all the death and suffering that comes from cancer.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, smcallah said:

I'm not sure why almost everyone here thinks that Matt sent Kevin Sr the only copy of the book.  When Kevin Sr. calls Matt the second time, Matt clearly says "Could you send the photocopy of the book back to me? I gave the original to..."  And then is cut off.  Apparently he was about to say he gave the original to Kevin Jr.

Thank you! That's what I recalled hearing, but was almost persuaded that I misremembered.

 

25 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I didn't see anyone here claim that Kevin Sr. was specifically motivated by racism.

But he was still an outsider to a culture claiming to be a tribal elder, spying on ceremonies he wasn't permitted to, and trespassing on aboriginal lands. He was being disrespectful to say the very elast.

I couldn't tell if Kevin Sr. even comprehended that his actions were disrespectful; did he just think his world-saving "purpose" was more important than the rights of the Australian Aboriginal people, or was he of the type who disdain anything that hints at political correctness? Or did Lindlehoff et al. decide to leave that up to interpretation?

[MrWhyt]

21 hours ago, AlwaysWatching said:

The only think I'm totally in the dark on, is the fact that The Leftovers comes from a book I haven't read.  I suppose that's a good thing for me if they are going to make the ending like the one in the book...or maybe the TV show left the book long ago. 

the first season is essentially the novel.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Thank you! That's what I recalled hearing, but was almost persuaded that I misremembered.

 

I couldn't tell if Kevin Sr. even comprehended that his actions were disrespectful; did he just think his world-saving "purpose" was more important than the rights of the Australian Aboriginal people, or was he of the type who disdain anything that hints at political correctness? Or did Lindlehoff et al. decide to leave that up to interpretation?

Since he is completely self-centered (as shown by him thinking his story is the important one, not Kevin Jr's), I don't think he has any awareness at all that he's doing anything wrong or questionable. He's on a single minded quest, the rest is small potatoes to him. To me it seems clear he doesn't have any position on political correctness, that people are only valued for what they can do to help accomplish his task of self-proclaimed savior of the world.

[WaltersHair]

Quote

It's not a scientific question but a moral one. If there were some all-powerful being who could wipe out cancer with as much ease as it disappeared 2% of Earth's population, and it would do so if you killed a child, would you kill that child? That the quid pro quo would work is a given in the thought experiment. The question is whether one innocent life is too steep a price to eliminate all the death and suffering that comes from cancer.

I still hate the question. (Personally) I don't think the world isn't that black and white. I do, however, realize that this is why I drove the judge crazy during jury selection recently. They asked a series of yes and no questions of all the prospectives, and I'd invariably try to get them to be more specific or ask another question. "We are going to be here all day if you keep doing that."

I think I'd flunk out on 'going' right off the bat.

[Clanstarling]

59 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I still hate the question. (Personally) I don't think the world isn't that black and white. I do, however, realize that this is why I drove the judge crazy during jury selection recently. They asked a series of yes and no questions of all the prospectives, and I'd invariably try to get them to be more specific or ask another question. "We are going to be here all day if you keep doing that."

I think I'd flunk out on 'going' right off the bat.

I drove a defense lawyer crazy doing the same thing during selection. :)

[Pallas]

18 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought it was the only "copy" as in Matt gave the original to Kevin Jr. and then sent the only copy of the original to Kevin Sr. No?

Yes, mostly!  Matt asked Kevin Sr. to return "the photocopy I sent you."  I think the sequence goes like this: (1) Matt sends the photocopy to Kevin, Sr., in Australia, where it is then forwarded to the little Outback Post Office: that all takes some time. (2) Two weeks before October 14, Matt hands Kevin the leather-bound original. Now he has none. (3) One week before October 14/15 -- when Kevin, Sr., calls Matt again -- Matt asks him to return the photocopy, since the original has left town with Kevin and Nora, and is now probably traveling steerage to Australia.

[humbleopinion]

Matt, don't you wish you had set the copier to 2 copies of each page and collate?

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

Matt asks him to return the photocopy, since the original has left town with Kevin and Nora, and is now probably traveling steerage to Australia.

I misheard photocopy as copy and thought it meant only manuscript in existence

[LydiaE]

The thing about Kevin Sr is that, pre-Departure, he was a pretty straight-laced, conforming man. He was sheriff of mid-sized town/city and the position of sheriff is a political one.  The political atmosphere in the West is absolutely suffocating and , ironically, possibly the most oppressive as it's ever been to date.  I was talking to my son's middle school principal a few days before I watched this episode and he was telling me how mentally and emotionally exhausting the job had become, what with all the politics and social justice drama he has to deal with.

So, after the departure, Kevin Sr himself departs from reality and begins to hear the voices. He becomes uninhibited. Suddenly, he doesn't have to give a crap about race relations, women's rights, using proper pronouns, gender identity, and all the other crap he's had to deal with. He's free to concentrate on this one thing. And that is the type of person you want to stop a torrential flood or the end of the world!

Had Kevin Sr decided to head on over to the Orient to gain some ancient wisdom, I doubt anyone would complain about a "white" man trying to immerse himself in the "yellow" people's traditions. He doesn't care. He'd try out a few things and decide his way of thinking was superior. Like Matt, old traditions are outdated like the New Testament. Time for a new chapter.

Call me a nihilist, but if it takes a rapture and a flood to change things, I'm all for it. I'd hang out with Kevin Sr any day if my other options are the Guilty Remnant and a society clinging desperately to a broken machine.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Since he is completely self-centered (as shown by him thinking his story is the important one, not Kevin Jr's), I don't think he has any awareness at all that he's doing anything wrong or questionable. He's on a single minded quest, the rest is small potatoes to him. To me it seems clear he doesn't have any position on political correctness, that people are only valued for what they can do to help accomplish his task of self-proclaimed savior of the world.

I agree.  If you believe your actions are going to save the world, I can't imagine you are going to get bogged down over issues like that.  It's kind of like: "I'm trying to save the world, and you are complaining that I'm not being respectful enough of other cultures in my quest.  Well guess what, those other cultures won't continue to exist if I don't succeed, so let's look at the bigger picture." 

[TimWil]

On 5/1/2017 at 1:28 PM, scrb said:

 

Methinks the producers decided to blow the budget since they were given one more season, to get themselves a holiday Down Under.  Though so far, they haven't shown any scenes filmed in Sydney or Melbourne, which might be expensive to do or even get a filming license.

Maybe they're in some SoCal backlot, mocked up to look like rural Australia.

Nope, the rest of the season was shot entirely in Australia. The remaining episodes are set in Sydney and Melbourne.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

. . . I do, however, realize that this is why I drove the judge crazy during jury selection recently. They asked a series of yes and no questions of all the prospectives, and I'd invariably try to get them to be more specific or ask another question. "We are going to be here all day if you keep doing that."

I think I'd flunk out on 'going' right off the bat.

 

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I drove a defense lawyer crazy doing the same thing during selection. :)

Ha! And about 10 years ago I wrote a letter in response to a jury duty summons, explaining that even though I was intrigued with the idea of being on a jury and would consider it an honor, it would likely wind up being a hung jury because I always want to consider the other side of things. They haven't sent me any more letters. I wonder if a high percentage of viewers of this show are also the same. 

[Mindthinkr]

1 minute ago, shapeshifter said:

 

Ha! And about 10 years ago I wrote a letter in response to a jury duty summons, explaining that even though I was intrigued with the idea of being on a jury and would consider it an honor, it would likely wind up being a hung jury because I always want to consider the other side of things. They haven't sent me any more letters. I wonder if a high percentage of viewers of this show are also the same. 

That's a interesting theory. You do know that others are going to copy your way of getting out of jury duty now lol. Have you seen the show Goliath? Billy Bob Thornton? 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I still hate the question. (Personally) I don't think the world isn't that black and white. I do, however, realize that this is why I drove the judge crazy during jury selection recently. They asked a series of yes and no questions of all the perspectives, and I'd invariably try to get them to be more specific or ask another question. "We are going to be here all day if you keep doing that."

I think the only surprising thing is that the Judge didn't immediately shut you down, and instruct you to answer the questions as asked.  They generally have little patience for potential jurors who get things off track during the selection process. 

Quote

The story Grace told about her children wasting away waiting for her was brutal. Maybe one of the nastiest disappearance stories we have seen yet. Introduce this lady to Nora, maybe Nora will feel a bit better about her life. At least she didn't accidently let her kids starve/overheat to death. The actress did a great job capturing her heartbreak  and horror, years later, and I totally buy this woman jumping on the first, bizarre opportunity to find some meaning or get back to her kids. If only she knew that cast members from Perfect Strangers are the ones to look to about that.

  Seriously.  Nora's departure story is heartbreaking, but this one was simply brutal. 

[DarkRaichu]

On 5/1/2017 at 0:21 PM, Cardie said:

Unless there are two handwritten copies of the Book of Kevin, or there is one half sent to Kevin Sr. and the other still in Matt's possession, there is no way the timing works out. It's Schrodinger's book, both trashed in Oz and present in Miracle, as long as we let its mystery be.

I think Kevin Sr got a photocopy of the book (his looked like a bundle of xerox paper).  Matt sent it at least 3 weeks ago since his wife and kid was still there when Kevin Sr called the 1st time.  

Matt gave Kevin Jr the only handwritten copy of the book sometime during Kevin Sr' time in Australia desert.  This was why Matt was interested in getting the copy back from Kevin Sr when he called from Grace's.

On 5/1/2017 at 1:10 PM, Juliegirlj said:

Is Kevin Sr slipping between different realities? After looking through Grace's frozen photo album in which there are photos of her adopted children, Kevin Sr comes across five doppelgängers of those same people as adults... and they are building an Arc! 

Perhaps.  I thought it was strange how empty Grace's fridge was when there were 5-6 (young) adults living there

[Domestic Assassin]

Quote

Had Kevin Sr decided to head on over to the Orient to gain some ancient wisdom, I doubt anyone would complain about a "white" man trying to immerse himself in the "yellow" people's traditions. He doesn't care. He'd try out a few things and decide his way of thinking was superior. Like Matt, old traditions are outdated like the New Testament. Time for a new chapter.

I certainly would complain.  The arrogance of someone from one culture dabbling in another culture and then presuming that he understands the meaning and purpose of the traditions better than those who have lived it is incredibly offensive.  Who the hell is he to say his way of thinking is superior?  In this episode, Kevin Sr. tells Christopher Sunday he needs to learn his song to stop the flood, but when he's told the song is to bring the rain, Senior dismisses that.  And then he (accidentally) kills the man.  The voices have stopped talking to him, and he's trying to figure it all out on his own now.  When he tells the story of taking God's Tongue in order to talk to God, he skips the part where he talked to his dead son either because he doesn't remember it or missed the significance of it (not knowing his son was dead at the time, but still, Junior's talking to him through the TV!).  But instead he's fixated on a chicken that pecked a tape where he happened to sing and the rain stopped, and he's decided it means a great flood is coming and only he can stop it.  In that story he still gets to be the Savior of Mankind.  He's angry at the suggestion that it's not all about him.  I think his arrogance is leading him down the wrong path.

[Cardie]

2 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

 I thought it was strange how empty Grace's fridge was when there were 5-6 (young) adults living there

He didn't know yet that they had died, so he probably in his delusion thought that they and Grace would be the beginning of his flock and would of course believe that the Great Flood is coming. I can see him then projecting them onto the landscape.

[A Boston Gal]

On 5/1/2017 at 2:41 AM, WaltersHair said:

YES. I have loved him as an actor, especially in Silence of the Lambs, but Urban Cowboy ruined me for life.

 Funny  what age and different experiences can  result in:   For me, it is The Right Stuff, and  his portrayal of hotshot Alan Sheppard. 

[ccphilly]

Guys, help!  When Big Kevin was looking at Grace's photo album, the actress who was photographed as young Grace looked identical to the young wife/mother in the premiere that was a member of the old-timey cult.  Am I nuts? (don't answer that).  

[WaltersHair]

Quote

YES. I have loved him as an actor, especially in Silence of the Lambs, but Urban Cowboy ruined me for life.

 Funny  what age and different experiences can  result in:   For me, it is The Right Stuff, and  his portrayal of hotshot Alan Sheppard. 

The two movies were released 3 years apart, so I think it may depend on what you saw first. I also loved him in Backdraft so there's that.

To keep this  on topic, I love how much he's just doing this part full out, no holds barred.

[Cardie]

4 hours ago, ccphilly said:

Guys, help!  When Big Kevin was looking at Grace's photo album, the actress who was photographed as young Grace looked identical to the young wife/mother in the premiere that was a member of the old-timey cult.  Am I nuts? (don't answer that).  

The resemblance may be intentional but I think that was a photograph of younger Lindsay Duncan in the album.

[Domestic Assassin]

The woman in the premiere was played by Alexandra Schepisi.  She does kind of resemble Lindsay Duncan.

[Cardie]

I see she's the daughter of great Australian director Fred Schepisi.

[RimaTheBirdGirl]

Quote

Since [Kevin Sr.] is completely self-centered (as shown by him thinking his story is the important one, not Kevin Jr's), I don't think he has any awareness at all that he's doing anything wrong or questionable. 

Sober Kevin Sr. is a bummer.  Kevin Sr. on God's Tongue, though, will tenaciously struggle to save his son, and succeed.  He's giving, connected, and loving.  And knows how to communicate trans-universally, through TVs and flower deliveries.

Multi-dimensional, is Kevin Sr. 

[Pallas]

11 hours ago, RimaTheBirdGirl said:

 

Sober Kevin Sr. is a bummer.  Kevin Sr. on God's Tongue, though, will tenaciously struggle to save his son, and succeed.  He's giving, connected, and loving.

He's never mad about his son.

I'd only add that sober, pre-Departure Kevin, Sr. was also a mensch (as seen in "The Garveys at Their Best," and heard in the tapes), and strands of him survive in apocalyptic Kevin, Sr.  The Kevin Sr. we've seen most is now messianic, and dismissive of any claims made for other prophets. He's messianic because he's psychotic, and that's the form his psychosis takes: one in which he suffers greatly, to save the world. And if you believe your suffering can redeem the world, what else matters? The false claims made for other prophets must be put aside -- along with all rules, laws and custom -- because to indulge them here will end the world, in a matter of days.  

[Adusk81]

The main thing I took away from this episode is how much people are looking for an answer and clutching to it when they "find it"

Sr's story about the tape and Itsy Bitsy Spider is such a stretch that when hearing it you think he's nuts. But he believes it so much. It's as if he needs to hear something just as crazy to snap out of it. Then he does.

Grace also needs to cling to something and sees him showing up in that spot at the cross as a sign and goes so far as to kill a man based on a hand written page in his hand. It's bonkers. Batshit. Which is what Kev sr should have taken from her story. But no. She had the wrong kevin. 

Everyone this season is so desperately trying to find their answer except for Kevin jr. he was told he is the new Jesus and just doesn't want it. So he probably is. 

[Penman61]

I'm doing a series rewatch to dovetail into the series finale, and I wonder about something from this episode:

KevS's recounting of his God's Tongue experience jibes with KevJ's "afterlife" vision of KevS (in a Perth hotel room, fire, "aboriginals") in S2's "International Assassin," correct?

If so, isn't this the first time in this series that something "supernatural" has been verified as actually having happened? 

The other close calls--e.g., KevJ's surviving suicide/murder--can be explained with a little stretching of credulity.  

But KevS's Perth hotel experience being the same as what KevJ saw in his "afterlife" experience--that confirmation without any attempt to have a non-supernatural explanation--is something new to the series, yes?

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, i.e., the Sudden Departure itself, right?  But within the world created by the SD, I think TPTB had been pretty scrupulous about giving us non-supernatural possible explanations for everything that characters interpret as supernatural/signs from God.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Penman61

[shapeshifter]

On May 21, 2017 at 0:47 PM, Penman61 said:

I'm doing a series rewatch to dovetail into the series finale, and I wonder about something from this episode:

KevS's recounting of his God's Tongue experience jibes with KevJ's "afterlife" vision of KevS (in a Perth hotel room, fire, "aboriginals") in S2's "International Assassin," correct?

If so, isn't this the first time in this series that something "supernatural" has been verified as actually having happened? 

The other close calls--e.g., KevJ's surviving suicide/murder--can be explained with a little stretching of credulity.  

But KevS's Perth hotel experience being the same as what KevJ saw in his "afterlife" experience--that confirmation without any attempt to have a non-supernatural explanation--is something new to the series, yes?

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, i.e., the Sudden Departure itself, right?  But within the world created by the SD, I think TPTB had been pretty scrupulous about giving us non-supernatural possible explanations for everything that characters interpret as supernatural/signs from God.

Perhaps it is confirmation that the Kevins Sr and Jr supernaturally communicated through a TV, but I think that's also a pretty common hallucination for schizophrenics to have, and schizophrenia has a genetic component, and  Kevin Sr was actually diagnosed (right?), and Kevin Jr seems to be that way too.
Uh oh. Thinking of how Lost ended with the Occam's Razor-ish of it all being Jack's dying thoughts after the crash, and now I'm wondering if this will all turn out to be Kevin Jr's first schizophrenic meltdown, and maybe he did kill some people, or it happened while he was engaged in extramarital sex, or. . .?
The people dressed in white could be hospital orderlies, doctors, patients, nurses, custodians, etc. Matt and John could be fellow patients.
I hope I'm wrong.

Edited May 24, 2017 by shapeshifter