S03.E03: Sunk Costs

[Captanne]

That is probably why the attorney spent so much time asking about whether Jimmy had or ever had a key.  It's Chekov's [dramatic] gun rule.  If there is a gun on the set, it's there to eventually get used.  

[scenario]

If Chuck has another episode and ends up in the hospital, Jimmy is still his next of kin. Chuck could fill out a Power of Attorney for someone else but who would he give it too? Maybe Howard. But I would bet that Howard would commit him if he got the chance, for Chucks own good. Chuck is dangerous to himself and to the firm. Howard would have plenty of both moral and legal grounds to commit Chuck. No one would blame him, not even Jimmy now. 

Chuck has boxed himself into a corner without even realizing it. He has alienated everyone close to him. 

[Captanne]

As we watch Chuck step up to the edge of true villainy -- I hope the show lets him take a step back.  I prefer it when the characters are complicated.

[nachomama]

15 hours ago, peeayebee said:

BTW, I read that Jonathan Banks couldn't get the shoes up onto the line, so the shot of it working was a combination of Banks and CGI.

Which is funny in comparison to Walt tossing the pizza on the roof on BB, did it in 1 take!

What are the chances that there is a power line hanging just above where they have to stop the truck to dig up their stashed weapons on the, already established, never never never used road? It was a cool trick and I must say that I used to notice sneakers on power lines all the time...when I lived in New Mexico.

[scenario]

6 minutes ago, nachomama said:

Which is funny in comparison to Walt tossing the pizza on the roof on BB, did it in 1 take!

What are the chances that there is a power line hanging just above where they have to stop the truck to dig up their stashed weapons on the, already established, never never never used road? It was a cool trick and I must say that I used to notice sneakers on power lines all the time...when I lived in New Mexico.

Stop signs are usually at intersections and power wires tend to cross at intersections because they are usually stung on poles following roads.  They happened to hide the weapons at that spot because it is near the border and is at the intersection of two roads. There's some luck involved but its not that far fetched. 

[nachomama]

I never stash my guns at intersections. It's a big no-no in the seedy underground. Gus would never, Gus be the master.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, scenario said:

2 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Why would Jimmy entering his brother's home be felony breaking and entering? Okay, he barged in, but how was that a felony?

The door was locked so he must have broken it down to get in. 

Yes, but now I'm wondering if Jimmy could claim that he thought Chuck was in danger--that Chuck's irrational behavior and past psychosomatic symptoms could mean he was suicidal (or something more legal).

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

Yes, if nothing else, we know a couple of things about Gus -- he likes to play the long game and he has a big picture plan in mind. And if someone comes along to interfere with that plan, he steps in. Just as he did in BB when the twins went to kill Walt, and just as he did when Mike went after Hector. Its interesting how he is so careful to keep a low profile, only wanting to be known for LPH and not who and what he really is, but he allows NO ONE else to step in when his plan is at risk. He makes it very clear who is ultimately running the show. 

LP

You forgot the most important thing about Gus...the man enjoys a good crudité platter.

Quote

As we watch Chuck step up to the edge of true villainy -- I hope the show lets him take a step back.  I prefer it when the characters are complicated

There were times when Chuck's smile made him look like the Grinch plotting to steal Christmas from Whoville.

Edited April 26, 2017 by qtpye

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

How Does 'Sunk Costs' Shake Up The Winners And Losers Of Better Call Saul?

Let's count them down from first to worst.

[attica]

Molly Hagan, the actor playing the judge, has a credits list a few miles long. But I remember her best as Lea Thompson's mean-girl friend in Some Kind of Wonderful. Because I am an old.

[Lorimac]

I haven't put this together yet, but I am sure this whole Chuck/Jimmy pissing match is getting us to Saul Goodman. Somehow, Jimmy will agree to sign a plea deal that James McGill never practices law again in the State of Arizona, and then changes is name to Saul Goodman since Slippin' Jimmy would not see that as violating the agreement.

[Bryce Lynch]

57 minutes ago, Lorimac said:

I haven't put this together yet, but I am sure this whole Chuck/Jimmy pissing match is getting us to Saul Goodman. Somehow, Jimmy will agree to sign a plea deal that James McGill never practices law again in the State of Arizona, and then changes is name to Saul Goodman since Slippin' Jimmy would not see that as violating the agreement.

It could be that Jimmy double crosses Chuck by changing his name to get around a deal to not practice.  I tend to think he will negotiate a deal with Chuck that will allow him to continue practicing, but not under the McGill name. That was what Chuck wanted from the start.  Back in episode 101, Chuck was trying to get Jimmy to change his firm's name to "Vanguard Law" or "Gilbraltar Legal". He, of course, blamed it on Howard and said Howard would pay for new matchbooks and so on.  

Since that is what he wanted from the beginning, I suspect Chuck would accept a deal that would allow Jimmy to practice under a different name, that wouldn't require him to go to court, have all his dirty (mylar) laundry aired, and be bombarded with EM radiation. Howard would probably be anxious to cut any deal that would avoid Chuck's "condition" and behavior becoming public record.  

Edited April 26, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, but now I'm wondering if Jimmy could claim that he thought Chuck was in danger--that Chuck's irrational behavior and past psychosomatic symptoms could mean he was suicidal (or something more legal).

That's exactly what I was thinking, and about to post. : )

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Lorimac said:

I haven't put this together yet, but I am sure this whole Chuck/Jimmy pissing match is getting us to Saul Goodman. Somehow, Jimmy will agree to sign a plea deal that James McGill never practices law again in the State of Arizona, and then changes is name to Saul Goodman since Slippin' Jimmy would not see that as violating the agreement.

This seems so obvious now that I read it. And even moreso when I read @Bryce Lynch's post, reminding us of the origin story of Chuck's vendetta—as well as the "dirty laundry" of Chuck's disability and how poorly it was accomodated vis a vis client security. And maybe Jimmy will use the "exigent circumstances" excuse (©L&O) for kicking in Chuck's door that @Ohwell and I suggested to get Chuck to the Let's Make a Deal table.

BTW, what was the "battery" charge based on?

Edited April 26, 2017 by shapeshifter

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

This seems so obvious now that I read it. And even moreso when I read @Bryce Lynch's post, reminding us of the origin story of Chuck's vendetta—as well as the "dirty laundry" of Chuck's disability and how poorly it was accomodated vis a vis client security. And maybe Jimmy will use the "exigent circumstances" excuse (©L&O) for kicking in Chuck's door that @Ohwell and I suggested to get Chuck to the Let's Make a Deal table.

BTW, what was the "battery" charge based on?

Maybe the "battery" charge had something to do with Jimmy not grounding himself and assaulting Chuck with EM radiation from his phone battery, watch battery, key fob battery and the batteries in the tape recorder that he removed from its protective mylar casing. :)

[Clanstarling]

On 4/24/2017 at 10:35 PM, AuntiePam said:

I'm hoping that Jimmy and Kim won't have to worry about a defense strategy.  Chuck didn't seem all that sure of himself when he said he'd have no problem testifying.  He can control the environment at HHM but he can't control a courtroom.

I don't think Chuck intends (or intended) it to take this as far as a courtroom, I think he was playing the DA (some masterful acting on his part), and his intention was always to get to that agreement (I forget what it was called), which would get Jimmy disbarred (IIRC).

On 4/24/2017 at 11:49 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The thing that I examined closely, and marvelled at, was Chuck;s choice to come out to speak with Jimmy in the DIRECT sun, with zero extraneous coverage.  He easily could have gone to Jimmy's left and turned his body with his back to the sun, and not his face getting the maximum available solar rays.  I also could not detect even the slightest twitch in his entire body.  He was 100% normal.  This is the first, and only, time this was true in 23 eps.  Not even sunglasses. 

Question for y'all:  Was Chuck feigning potential personal difficulty in appearing at trial, or was it part of the con to get the ADA to go along with his scheme?  Just how "cured" is he?  I really don't know, which is a wonderful thing.  What say y'all?

I was pretty stunned by how Chuck stood in the sun, casually, without any sign of discomfort. We have seen him in true discomfort, so I don't know if I think he's faking his illness, as much as getting the better of Jimmy has made him feel better.

On 4/25/2017 at 6:09 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

Kim signed ONE client and it is probably because Paige has a crush on her.  She also hurt his reputation and the reputation of HHM by convincing him to recommend Slippin' Jimmy McGill to Davis & Main., and as far as he knows, by not letting him know that Jimmy  was airing an unauthorized TV ad in the name of D&M.  Kim was probably valuable, but certainly not irreplaceable.  

Paige recommended Kim, sure, but it was her boss who hired her. Paige may or may not have a crush, but she's betting her own reputation and career that Kim is as talented as she believes. Since they weren't established as being particularly close befoer Kim contacted her, I can't see dismissing Kim's achievement as the result of a crush.

22 hours ago, RealReality said:

Thats exactly what I assumed the shoes meant in the first scene, and I think of it every time I see a pair of shoes on a wire.  I wonder if I first heard the reference on BB.

So far as I recall, this is the first time I've ever heard that shoes on a wire means something. I've been driving past them for years wondering why the heck anyone would do that. But I've watched BB twice now, so unless I missed it twice (always a possibility) I don't think it was referred to there.

19 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

For some time, the one thing that throws me off in this show is that Jonathan Banks looks so much older than he did in BB. Bob Odenkirk has a face that they can easily change between the 20's of Slippin' Jimmy and the 30-40s of Jimmy/Saul/Gene. But Banks I just cannot buy.  The man looks rough.  They don't seem to make any effort to make him look a little younger (as he should be).

That's too funny - because Banks is the one I totally buy. He's always been rough looking, and I don't really see that much of a difference (well, I might if I looked at the shows side by side, but I don't).

7 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think she was working so hard on Mesa Verde, probably after falling behind from worrying about Jimmy's case and working on his geezers' wills, that she didn't have time to go home to sleep and shower, so she showered at the gym across the street instead.  

I took that to mean that Kim is essentially homeless. It was a long, and very specific, scene. I'm think Kim invested more money, and has more at stake, than any of us know at this point.

[shapeshifter]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Maybe the "battery" charge had something to do with Jimmy not grounding himself and assaulting Chuck with EM radiation from his phone battery, watch battery, key fob battery and the batteries in the tape recorder that he removed from its protective mylar casing. :)

Ha ha! I wish they would include that, but not in a way that could be considered pathetic or ridiculous.

[Bryce Lynch]

25 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I don't think Chuck intends (or intended) it to take this as far as a courtroom, I think he was playing the DA (some masterful acting on his part), and his intention was always to get to that agreement (I forget what it was called), which would get Jimmy disbarred (IIRC).

I was pretty stunned by how Chuck stood in the sun, casually, without any sign of discomfort. We have seen him in true discomfort, so I don't know if I think he's faking his illness, as much as getting the better of Jimmy has made him feel better.

Paige recommended Kim, sure, but it was her boss who hired her. Paige may or may not have a crush, but she's betting her own reputation and career that Kim is as talented as she believes. Since they weren't established as being particularly close befoer Kim contacted her, I can't see dismissing Kim's achievement as the result of a crush.

So far as I recall, this is the first time I've ever heard that shoes on a wire means something. I've been driving past them for years wondering why the heck anyone would do that. But I've watched BB twice now, so unless I missed it twice (always a possibility) I don't think it was referred to there.

That's too funny - because Banks is the one I totally buy. He's always been rough looking, and I don't really see that much of a difference (well, I might if I looked at the shows side by side, but I don't).

I took that to mean that Kim is essentially homeless. It was a long, and very specific, scene. I'm think Kim invested more money, and has more at stake, than any of us know at this point.

That's what I thought at first, but then wouldn't she have clothes and boxes of other personal items around the office?  I am not sure of the timeline, but I think Wexler and McGill is only weeks old.  I don't think that would be long enough for her to become homeless.  

I believe Chuck let Ernesto hear the tape only 8 days before the start of this episode.

Also if Kim is homeless, where is Jimmy living?  I would think he would either be shacking up with Kim or living in the new office as well.  

[Clanstarling]

10 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

That's what I thought at first, but then wouldn't she have clothes and boxes of other personal items around the office?  I am not sure of the timeline, but I think Wexler and McGill is only weeks old.  I don't think that would be long enough for her to become homeless.  

I believe Chuck let Ernesto hear the tape only 8 days before the start of this episode.

Also if Kim is homeless, where is Jimmy living?  I would think he would either be shacking up with Kim or living in the new office as well.  

All good questions. I do believe they'll be answered in good time.

If Kim is indeed homeless, I'd wager she's hiding her personal possessions (there are probably storage areas in the building). She wouldn't want Jimmy to know, because Kim is a woman who wants to rescue herself. I don't recall if she owned her place, but if she did, I wonder if she sold it to help pay for the business.

I think Jimmy's still living in the nail salon.

[ShadowFacts]

13 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

All good questions. I do believe they'll be answered in good time.

If Kim is indeed homeless, I'd wager she's hiding her personal possessions (there are probably storage areas in the building). She wouldn't want Jimmy to know, because Kim is a woman who wants to rescue herself. I don't recall if she owned her place, but if she did, I wonder if she sold it to help pay for the business.

I think Jimmy's still living in the nail salon.

I'm starting to think that Kim living in the offices is part of the sunken costs she has put into Jimmy.  It makes the stakes higher.  They might not bother to show a whole montage of her waking up, coffee, health club if it was just a one-time thing. 

[SnarkyTart]

13 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If Chuck is forced to testify in court against Jimmy, not only could Jimmy embarrases him by bringing up his craziness, he could find ways to terrorize him with electricity.

Absolutely!   In my version of Chuck Karma, Jimmy will force this to go to trial, where Chuck will have to testify.  The day before Chuck's testimony, Jimmy will hire Mike to hotwire Chuck's entire house so that he wakes up that morning with every conceivable form of electricity and electromagnetic energy lighting up his house like a Disneyland Christmas extravaganza.  Chuck's insane need to exact justice on Jimmy will compel Chuck to testify anyway.  Jimmy (as co-counsel with Kim) will be the one to examine Chuck on the witness stand, and he will totally devastate Chuck's testimony, Chuck's reputation, and the remaining shreds of Chuck's sanity.  Chuck will be the one who is disbarred, and loses his license.  Jimmy will force HHM to buy out Chuck, forcing HHM into bankruptcy.  Jimmy will have legal custodial care over Chuck, (including power of attorney over Chuck's finances), which will put Jimmy in control, not only of Chuck's mental health decisions, but of Chuck's $10 Million.  Jimmy will have Chuck committed to a private institution, one where there's PLENTY of electricity, electronic beeping, and continuous buzzing.  Of course, Chuck will have to watch all of Saul Goodman's commercials while his caretakers comment on Saul's popularity and how much everyone just loves Saul Goodman.  Jimmy will leave Chuck alone to eventually die there, with Jimmy being the sole heir to Chuck's fortune.  :-)

[Macbeth]

12 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Good point about Jimmy having a (more or less) honest practice, at this point.  I liked the judge's reaction when he said he was doing elder law, "A noble pursuit."  She seemed to respect him and to be hoping things work out for him. 

I am sure Jimmy is being honest with his elderly clients.  He has a sweet way about him, and he likes helping people.  God knows the amount of labor he put into taking care of Chuck.  He's not motivated by money.

But I have experience in probate - the biggest thieves can be found in probate law.  The elderly are easy targets. 

I loved Gus and Mike's scene.  So glad Gus is back on my scene.  The one scene that didn't work for me is that Mike couldn't tell the Doctor how much drugs he needed.  He just used his hands to give a general estimate of the amount needed.  Both Gus and Mike are completely anal - and that is so out of character for them both.  I can't imagine Gus doesn't know right down to the ounce the amount of drugs he is dealing with, and would be ok with such an estimate.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Macbeth

[MrWhyt]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, but now I'm wondering if Jimmy could claim that he thought Chuck was in danger--that Chuck's irrational behavior and past psychosomatic symptoms could mean he was suicidal (or something more legal).

Howard and the PI can testify that when he broke in Jimmy never mentioned being worried about Chuck's health and in fact seemed quite angry with him.

[Ohwell]

16 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

Howard and the PI can testify that when he broke in Jimmy never mentioned being worried about Chuck's health and in fact seemed quite angry with him.

But Jimmy can spin that though, saying that he was first concerned, and then angry with Chuck for making him (Jimmy) think Chuck was in danger.  

[ShadowFacts]

The thing is, in a trial the two witnesses would have to be talking about the 8 day-long trap that was laid, and why the tape was made, and Howard definitely doesn't want that coming out.  Jimmy can actually explain away what he said on the tape.  He has a harder time getting out of the breaking in.   So Chuck has Jimmy boxed in as he said, but Jimmy has Howard kind of boxed in, too, if a trial happens.  Chuck doesn't have to just testify as to the events of the kicking in the door and busting open the drawer, he has to answer Jimmy's questions about why he made the tape and why he hired round the clock PIs. 

[Quilt Fairy]

I think that if Jimmy can lay the foundation of how long he was caring for Chuck, bringing him all his groceries, etc., even to the point of being granted temporary guardianship when Chuck was in the hospital, it's perfectly reasonable that he was concerned enough about Chuck to break into his house to check on him.  I don't know if that's how it's going to play out, but it seems like a good plan to me. The fact that he didn't say "Chuck, I hadn't heard from you and I was worried about you" in front of the 2 witnesses doesn't make any difference.

And if Chuck ends up testifying, all Jimmy has to do is ask him to remove his suit jacket and show the judge and jury the space blanket lining.

[AuntiePam]

1 hour ago, Macbeth said:

The one scene that didn't work for me is that Mike couldn't tell the Doctor how much drugs he needed.  He just used his hands to give a general estimate of the amount needed.  Both Gus and Mike are completely anal - and that is so out of character for them both.  I can't imagine Gus doesn't know right down to the ounce the amount of drugs he is dealing with, and would be ok with such an estimate.

What confused me was that Mike's description to the doctor wasn't anywhere close to what ended up in the shoe.  Mike described something that looked like about the size of a pound of butter, but the baggie held considerably less -- like an ounce.  So yeah, why wasn't Mike more precise?  Did he get more and is saving the rest for something else?

[RealReality]

I didn't get the impression Kim was homeless, just that she had been working so hard she fell asleep at the office...and did so regularly so she had her clothes and convenient gym membership ready.

[scenario]

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

I didn't get the impression Kim was homeless, just that she had been working so hard she fell asleep at the office...and did so regularly so she had her clothes and convenient gym membership ready.

She's working 18+ hours a day. She falls asleep when she's too tired to keep awake. She could spend the 10 or 15 minutes to drive home at night and then another 10 to 15 minutes to drive back in the morning but she'd rather spend the time working. Also, she's only getting maybe 4 or 5 hours a night sleeping. The drive time would come out of her sleep time not work. It wouldn't be safe for her to drive home at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning. She made the practical decision to just sleep at the office most nights until she's got a good handle on the work. 

There's a word in Japanese, Karoshi, which means death by over work. I hope that's not Kim's fate. A mundane death, but it would kind of fit Jimmy just being so self absorbed, he takes Kim for granted and she dies in a car crash or something. 

[peeayebee]

I agree with others that Kim was just spending so many hours at work that she regularly goes to the gym to shower and change. At first I thought she had given up her home for the business, but I don't think that's the case.

 

20 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, but now I'm wondering if Jimmy could claim that he thought Chuck was in danger--that Chuck's irrational behavior and past psychosomatic symptoms could mean he was suicidal (or something more legal).

Chuck had witnesses. Jimmy can't spin what he did...

 

13 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

The thing is, in a trial the two witnesses would have to be talking about the 8 day-long trap that was laid, and why the tape was made, and Howard definitely doesn't want that coming out.  Jimmy can actually explain away what he said on the tape.  He has a harder time getting out of the breaking in.   So Chuck has Jimmy boxed in as he said, but Jimmy has Howard kind of boxed in, too, if a trial happens.  Chuck doesn't have to just testify as to the events of the kicking in the door and busting open the drawer, he has to answer Jimmy's questions about why he made the tape and why he hired round the clock PIs. 

... but this angle is possible. Besides, didn't Jimmy destroy the tape? People can testify what they heard on it, but Jimmy can easily say he was just trying to make Chuck feel better. I don't like speculating too much.

[Tikichick]

On 4/25/2017 at 11:51 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

I could see things blowing up for HHM, but not necessarily due to any bad management by Howard.   

He is in a very difficult situation, with no clear solutions.  He has a crazy, EM-phobic, senior partner, who is obsessed with ending his little brother's law career. If he tries to get rid of Chuck he will probably need to come up with over $10 million to buy him out, which could destroy the firm.  If he offends Chuck, who know how he might harm the firm. 

Like Kim, and Ernie he is sort of an innocent victim, caught up in the 2 brothers' craziness and rivalry. At least Kim got involved with Jimmy by choice.  Howard basically inherited Chuck from his father.  

Jimmy has never been in rivalry with Chuck -- until Chuck "destroyed" their family.  While Jimmy may have considered Chuck kind of a square and a bit of a drag, Jimmy has always genuinely had an admiration and a love for his brother, always blindly assuming Chuck was the long-suffering brother who has put up with his less than acceptable behavior because he loved him back.  The rivalry was entirely one sided.

[Tikichick]

22 hours ago, scenario said:

If Chuck has another episode and ends up in the hospital, Jimmy is still his next of kin. Chuck could fill out a Power of Attorney for someone else but who would he give it too? Maybe Howard. But I would bet that Howard would commit him if he got the chance, for Chucks own good. Chuck is dangerous to himself and to the firm. Howard would have plenty of both moral and legal grounds to commit Chuck. No one would blame him, not even Jimmy now. 

Chuck has boxed himself into a corner without even realizing it. He has alienated everyone close to him. 

The court could appoint someone to serve as Chuck's guardian and conservator, and likely would in this case, because it's a certainty Chuck with any cognitive functioning will fight Jimmy being appointed. 

[Bryce Lynch]

32 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Jimmy has never been in rivalry with Chuck -- until Chuck "destroyed" their family.  While Jimmy may have considered Chuck kind of a square and a bit of a drag, Jimmy has always genuinely had an admiration and a love for his brother, always blindly assuming Chuck was the long-suffering brother who has put up with his less than acceptable behavior because he loved him back.  The rivalry was entirely one sided.

Chuck may have started the rivalry, but Jimmy was fully engaged in it before Chuck "destroyed their family" by setting up Jimmy to confess his crimes against Chuck and against Mesa Verde, on tape.  Chuck merely helped HHM retain Mesa Verde, which sucked for Kim, but wasn't really wrong.  Jimmy sneaking into Chuck's files, stealing them, altering, and replacing them, to sabotage and humiliate Chuck, was a huge overreaction and escalation of the conflict.  It harmed Chuck's reputation, HHM's reputation and Mesa Verde's business.   

For Chuck to pull a scam on Jimmy, with the intention of getting Jimmy to confess to his scam doesn't seem wrong to me.  Was Chuck just supposed to lay down and say, "Oh, that little brother of mine, is a pip, isn't he!  Got me again!" Why wouldn't Chuck respond with his own scam to catch Jimmy? 

Remember, Chuck originally confronted Jimmy and accused him of the cut and paste scam, and Jimmy responded by lying through his teeth and denied everything.  Jimmy later bribed the copy shop guy to lie to Chuck and destroy the video of him.  Is it so wrong for Chuck to not want Jimmy to not get way with what he did?

I am totally on Team Jimmy, but I am willing to admit Team Jimmy is kind of like the old Oakland Raiders. :)

Edited April 27, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[ItCouldBeWorse]

15 hours ago, Macbeth said:

The one scene that didn't work for me is that Mike couldn't tell the Doctor how much drugs he needed.  He just used his hands to give a general estimate of the amount needed.  Both Gus and Mike are completely anal - and that is so out of character for them both.  I can't imagine Gus doesn't know right down to the ounce the amount of drugs he is dealing with, and would be ok with such an estimate.

Gus wasn't necessarily in on the specifics of the plan - he just gave Mike the Mexican doctor connection so he could obtain the drugs. It would have been funny if Mike had shown the doctor the sneaker, but it would have ruined the surprise for us.

5 hours ago, RealReality said:

I didn't get the impression Kim was homeless, just that she had been working so hard she fell asleep at the office...and did so regularly so she had her clothes and convenient gym membership ready.

Agreed. For all we know, Kim could have become a member solely because the gym is close to the office and a convenient place to shower.

I love the emphasis on the particular earrings she wears every work day - the only consistent part of her uniform (other than her oft-disparaged hairstyle.)

18 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

BTW, what was the "battery" charge based on?

It's a weak charge, having to do with Jimmy physically attacking Chuck. Criminal battery requires intent to inflict an injury on another. That's why the prosecutor asked Chuck if Jimmy had hurt him, or if he had felt threatened (can't remember the exact language) and Chuck mentioned being backed into the wall, I think, but sincerely said that Jimmy would never actually hurt him.  It's an example of over-charging, and will be dismissed.

Edited April 27, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ShadowFacts]

 

11 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Chuck may have started the rivalry, but Jimmy was fully engaged in it before Chuck "destroyed their family" by setting up Jimmy to confess his crimes against Chuck and against Mesa Verde, on tape.  Chuck merely helped HHM retain Mesa Verde, which sucked for Kim, but wasn't really wrong.  Jimmy sneaking into Chuck's files, stealing them, altering, and replacing them, to sabotage and humiliate Chuck, was a huge overreaction and escalation of the conflict.  It harmed Chuck's reputation, HHM's reputation and Mesa Verde's business.   

For Chuck to pull a scam on Jimmy, with the intention of getting Jimmy to confess to his scam doesn't seem wrong to me.  Was Chuck just supposed to lay down and say, "Oh, that little brother of mine, is a pip, isn't he!  Got me again!" Why wouldn't Chuck respond with his own scam to catch Jimmy? 

Remember, Chuck originally confronted Jimmy and accused him of the cut and paste scam, and Jimmy responded by lying through his teeth and denied everything.  Jimmy later bribed the copy shop guy to lie to Chuck and destroy the video of him.  Is it so wrong for Chuck to not want Jimmy to not get way with what he did?

My take is that Jimmy's main motivation for his illegal activities in the Mesa Verde mess was to help Kim.  If it had been some other HHM associate or anyone else, he wouldn't have gone to the trouble just to get back at Chuck.  He wasn't in a tit-for-tat relationship with Chuck.  He put up with years of shit, even after he knew Chuck was behind HHM not wanting him as an associate.  He could have continued denying he did anything with the paperwork and let Chuck hang out in his Faraday cage, but he had more compassion than to do that.  I think what Jimmy did there was a really huge breach of professional conduct and for that he should have faced serious consequences.  But that couldn't happen without HHM looking seriously negligent as well.  What appeared to be a transpositional/proofreading error would become a sordid reputational hit, and maybe legal malpractice.  So Howard's first reaction when hearing the tape was a good call -- it couldn't get them Mesa Verde back and it couldn't help them to have it known publicly.  Chuck's plan was one of pure vengeance, it couldn't help HHM and it's not going to get him what he wants personally, as we all know.  Jimmy will go on lawyering.  Howard should have held the line and not agreed to the round-the-clock PIs. 

[qtpye]

26 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

 

My take is that Jimmy's main motivation for his illegal activities in the Mesa Verde mess was to help Kim.  If it had been some other HHM associate or anyone else, he wouldn't have gone to the trouble just to get back at Chuck.  He wasn't in a tit-for-tat relationship with Chuck.  He put up with years of shit, even after he knew Chuck was behind HHM not wanting him as an associate.  He could have continued denying he did anything with the paperwork and let Chuck hang out in his Faraday cage, but he had more compassion than to do that.  I think what Jimmy did there was a really huge breach of professional conduct and for that he should have faced serious consequences.  But that couldn't happen without HHM looking seriously negligent as well.  What appeared to be a transpositional/proofreading error would become a sordid reputational hit, and maybe legal malpractice.  So Howard's first reaction when hearing the tape was a good call -- it couldn't get them Mesa Verde back and it couldn't help them to have it known publicly.  Chuck's plan was one of pure vengeance, it couldn't help HHM and it's not going to get him what he wants personally, as we all know.  Jimmy will go on lawyering.  Howard should have held the line and not agreed to the round-the-clock PIs. 

If they had just lost Mesa Verde to anyone else, Chuck would not have gone to the pain of putting on his Mylar lined suit and going to the office.  Chuck can not stand the idea of Jimmy winning.  He new Kim and Jimmy were going to be doing separate solo practices, but sharing costs.  He wanted Kim away from Jimmy (he wants Jimmy to be lonely and he does not want him to build a succeful solo practice) and he new getting Mesa Verde back would ruin Kim.

[scenario]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

The court could appoint someone to serve as Chuck's guardian and conservator, and likely would in this case, because it's a certainty Chuck with any cognitive functioning will fight Jimmy being appointed. 

But even with a court ordered guardian, he'd end up locked away for observation. An impartial observer wouldn't have given Chuck as much slack as Jimmy did. Being stuck in a room with electronics and getting the help he need would either cure him or kill him. 

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, qtpye said:

If they had just lost Mesa Verde to anyone else, Chuck would not have gone to the pain of putting on his Mylar lined suit and going to the office.  Chuck can not stand the idea of Jimmy winning.  He new Kim and Jimmy were going to be doing separate solo practices, but sharing costs.  He wanted Kim away from Jimmy (he wants Jimmy to be lonely and he does not want him to build a succeful solo practice) and he new getting Mesa Verde back would ruin Kim.

I agree that Chuck wouldn't have put up with the electricity to keep MV from going to any firm other than Kim's,  At the same time, if Kim had lost MV to any other firm but HHM, or if some other partner at HHM had won the client back, Jimmy wouldn't have gone to all the trouble and broken the law to help Kim get MV back.  

Jimmy certainly wanted to help Kim, but he was also motivated by not wanting Chuck to get the best of him.  

I'm not sure Chuck wants Jimmy to be lonely.  I think he just doesn't want him practicing law, or being a "bad influence" on a promising, young associate who used to work for him.  In his own mind, I think Chuck thinks he is looking out for Kim's best interests by trying to separate her from Jimmy.  I'm not sure Chuck wants Jimmy to be lonely, I think he just wants Kim to stay away from him.  I don' t think Chuck would bat an eye if Jimmy hooked up with one of the ladies from the nail salon, or a waitress at the diner. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 4/26/2017 at 0:51 PM, Captanne said:

That is probably why the attorney spent so much time asking about whether Jimmy had or ever had a key.  It's Chekov's [dramatic] gun rule.  If there is a gun on the set, it's there to eventually get used

If Jimmy previously had been given a key by Chuck, and therefore the right of entry, and didn't know that the lock had been changed, then breaking down the door when his key didn't work would not be a crime, anymore than breaking down the door to your own home would be if your key somehow no longer worked. Of course, Jimmy knew that Chuck no longer wanted him to have access to his home, so this defense is unavailable to him.

[qtpye]

4 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I'm not sure Chuck wants Jimmy to be lonely.  I think he just doesn't want him practicing law, or being a "bad influence" on a promising, young associate who used to work for him.  In his own mind, I think Chuck thinks he is looking out for Kim's best interests by trying to separate her from Jimmy.  I'm not sure Chuck wants Jimmy to be lonely, I think he just wants Kim to stay away from him.  I don' t think Chuck would bat an eye if Jimmy hooked up with one of the ladies from the nail salon, or a waitress at the diner. 

Maybe not lonely, but with a woman that is more in keeping with what Chuck sees as Jimmy's station in life...like an ex stripper.

Edited April 27, 2017 by qtpye

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree that Chuck wouldn't have put up with the electricity to keep MV from going to any firm other than Kim's,  At the same time, if Kim had lost MV to any other firm but HHM, or if some other partner at HHM had won the client back, Jimmy wouldn't have gone to all the trouble and broken the law to help Kim get MV back.  

Jimmy certainly wanted to help Kim, but he was also motivated by not wanting Chuck to get the best of him.  

I'm not sure Chuck wants Jimmy to be lonely.  I think he just doesn't want him practicing law, or being a "bad influence" on a promising, young associate who used to work for him.  In his own mind, I think Chuck thinks he is looking out for Kim's best interests by trying to separate her from Jimmy.  I'm not sure Chuck wants Jimmy to be lonely, I think he just wants Kim to stay away from him.  I don' t think Chuck would bat an eye if Jimmy hooked up with one of the ladies from the nail salon, or a waitress at the diner. 

IMO Chuck wants to bring Jimmy to his knees.  Chuck isn't looking out for Kim, he knows Jimmy loves her, therefore that love must be destroyed, or at least thwarted at all costs.

8 minutes ago, scenario said:

But even with a court ordered guardian, he'd end up locked away for observation. An impartial observer wouldn't have given Chuck as much slack as Jimmy did. Being stuck in a room with electronics and getting the help he need would either cure him or kill him. 

Not necessarily.  It can be extremely difficult to commit someone for treatment for very long against their will.  It's even more challenging with someone who both knows the law well and has financial wherewithal to mount a legal challenge.  

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, qtpye said:

Maybe not lonely, but with a woman that is more in keeping with what Chuck see's Jimmy's station in life...like an ex stripper.

LOL - Kim could be an ex-stripper, for all we know.  She seems rather secretive about her old life in Kansas as we saw in her Schweikart & Coakley interview.  She avoided mentioning the name of the town, "you've never heard of it" and only said it was on the Kansas-Nebraska border.  I had forgotten about the Nebraska border part.  Could that be a hint that Kim might reunite with "Gene" in Omaha, some day?

[shapeshifter]

23 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

18 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

BTW, what was the "battery" charge based on?

. . . It's a weak charge, having to do with Jimmy physically attacking Chuck. Criminal battery requires intent to inflict an injury on another. That's why the prosecutor asked Chuck if Jimmy had hurt him, or if he had felt threatened (can't remember the exact language) and Chuck mentioned being backed into the wall, I think, but sincerely said that Jimmy would never actually hurt him.  It's an example of over-charging, and will be dismissed.

That's what I thought. So does Chuck have some super-villainous, evil-plan reason for bringing up the battery charge? Or just maybe to make him (Chuck) look reasonable when he agrees to drop that charge?

[carrps]

Re: sneakers on the power line. Over thirty years ago, I noticed several pairs of sneakers hanging on a power line a block from work and was told that it indicated drugs were sold there. This was our corporate headquarters, but the neighborhood was seriously sketchy -- especially after dark.

Those were "vintage" Nikes (?), too, right? I adored that cold open.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

23 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

BTW, what was the "battery" charge based on?

. . . It's a weak charge, having to do with Jimmy physically attacking Chuck. Criminal battery requires intent to inflict an injury on another. That's why the prosecutor asked Chuck if Jimmy had hurt him, or if he had felt threatened (can't remember the exact language) and Chuck mentioned being backed into the wall, I think, but sincerely said that Jimmy would never actually hurt him.  It's an example of over-charging, and will be dismissed.

That's what I thought. So does Chuck have some super-villainous, evil-plan reason for bringing up the battery charge? Or just maybe to make him (Chuck) look reasonable when he agrees to drop that charge?

I don't know that Chuck had anything to do with the battery charge.  When the police arrived, Howard or the PI might have said that Jimmy broke down the door to attack Chuck, so battery was included with the charges.

Edited April 27, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Chuck may have started the rivalry, but Jimmy was fully engaged in it before Chuck "destroyed their family" by setting up Jimmy to confess his crimes against Chuck and against Mesa Verde, on tape.  Chuck merely helped HHM retain Mesa Verde, which sucked for Kim, but wasn't really wrong.  Jimmy sneaking into Chuck's files, stealing them, altering, and replacing them, to sabotage and humiliate Chuck, was a huge overreaction and escalation of the conflict.  It harmed Chuck's reputation, HHM's reputation and Mesa Verde's business.   

For Chuck to pull a scam on Jimmy, with the intention of getting Jimmy to confess to his scam doesn't seem wrong to me.  Was Chuck just supposed to lay down and say, "Oh, that little brother of mine, is a pip, isn't he!  Got me again!" Why wouldn't Chuck respond with his own scam to catch Jimmy? 

Remember, Chuck originally confronted Jimmy and accused him of the cut and paste scam, and Jimmy responded by lying through his teeth and denied everything.  Jimmy later bribed the copy shop guy to lie to Chuck and destroy the video of him.  Is it so wrong for Chuck to not want Jimmy to not get way with what he did?

I am totally on Team Jimmy, but I am willing to admit Team Jimmy is kind of like the old Oakland Raiders. :)

Jimmy never manipulated the Mesa Verde documents with any intent other than helping Kim get what Jimmy thought was rightfully her client.  Jimmy was frantic when he thought Chuck was actually truly harmed personally by the scam.  Jimmy saw altering the Mesa Verde documents more as "business", and not directly against Chuck in a certain sense, more against HHM. 

Chuck has no such compunctions when it comes to Jimmy.  Until this happened I believe Jimmy thought Chuck keeping him out of HHM wasn't personal at the core, merely concern for the business because he was so aware of Slippin' Jimmy.  Now Jimmy had the blinders ripped off when it comes to Chuck.

[qtpye]

21 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

LOL - Kim could be an ex-stripper, for all we know.  She seems rather secretive about her old life in Kansas as we saw in her Schweikart & Coakley interview.  She avoided mentioning the name of the town, "you've never heard of it" and only said it was on the Kansas-Nebraska border.  I had forgotten about the Nebraska border part.  Could that be a hint that Kim might reunite with "Gene" in Omaha, some day?

That would make her an ex stripper gone good (not that I have anything against strippers...it's honest work, after all), which is not low enough for Chuck.

[scenario]

29 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

IMO Chuck wants to bring Jimmy to his knees.  Chuck isn't looking out for Kim, he knows Jimmy loves her, therefore that love must be destroyed, or at least thwarted at all costs.

Not necessarily.  It can be extremely difficult to commit someone for treatment for very long against their will.  It's even more challenging with someone who both knows the law well and has financial wherewithal to mount a legal challenge.  

Long term no. But if Chuck collapses again and goes into a self induced coma, they might be able to keep him there for thirty days. Thirty days might be enough to drive him over the bend. 

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Jimmy never manipulated the Mesa Verde documents with any intent other than helping Kim get what Jimmy thought was rightfully her client.  Jimmy was frantic when he thought Chuck was actually truly harmed personally by the scam.  Jimmy saw altering the Mesa Verde documents more as "business", and not directly against Chuck in a certain sense, more against HHM. 

Chuck has no such compunctions when it comes to Jimmy.  Until this happened I believe Jimmy thought Chuck keeping him out of HHM wasn't personal at the core, merely concern for the business because he was so aware of Slippin' Jimmy.  Now Jimmy had the blinders ripped off when it comes to Chuck.

Chuck's only goal seems to be to keep Jimmy from practicing law, or at least from doing it under the illustrious McGill name.

Kim didn't want Jimmy's "help".  I realize that, in his mind, Jimmy's main motivation was to help Kim.  But, there is no way his desire to help Kim would have made him totally lose perspective and commit multiple felonies by breaking into and altering the files of any other law firm. 

[Captanne]

I think there is something more insidious about Chuck's desire to harm Jimmy -- I agree that it is to keep his brother from practicing law but I sense another edge to it.  There is some sort of strange control-freak, sibling rivalry Chuck has going on in his head.

That's my interpretation and "gut feeling".  I just can't forget that Chuck is severely mentally ill; so what's going on inside his head is anyone's guess.  The show and actor are presenting us with a deranged individual.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Captanne