S03.E02: Witness

[knaankos]

9 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Good point.  I had a similar reaction to Mike's hijacking of Hector's truck in "Nailed".  It seemed a bit far fetched that he could setup the trap, hijack the truck, tie up the driver, and cut open the tires to get the cash without any cars coming by.  

The same goes for the Los Pollos Hermanos truck hijackings, in BB.  It seemed like after the 2nd one, they left the truck there with the driver shot to death, the two security guys dead of carbon monoxide poisoning, holding M16s, with dozens of bullet holes in the truck.  Wouldn't that have put at least a bit of law enforcement attention on Los Pollos Hermanos?

Just how deserted are roads in NM?

well New Mexico only has 2 million people and it a pretty large state. 45th in population density of all US states. And keep in mind that almost 50% of the states population lives in the Albuquerque/Santa Fe area which is one tiny section of the state land wise. 

[Dobian]

I liked Jimmy rolling the masking tape off the wall like Chuck taught him last week, then realizing it and yanking it the rest of the way off.  Chuck might be on the right side of the law, but he is on the wrong side of humanity.  He is a miserable little man living an Ebeneezer Scrooge existence.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the three spirits visit him some Christmas Eve.  I loved his shock and surprise at Jimmy coming after him and not sneaking into the house to steal the tape like he expected.  I think it was the honesty of Jimmy's anger toward him that floored him.  He might be able to get Jimmy for breaking and entering, but they'll never be able to get Jimmy's confession to stick, and too much of Chuck's dark side will come out to where he is going to look really bad if this goes to trial.  Howard has to realize soon that Chuck's vendetta with Jimmy isn't about HHM at all but about his obsession with his little brother, and that he could drag the firm down over it.  Great intro for Gus.  I tensed up as he swept his way past Jimmy, knowing that he was checking Jimmy out.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Dobian

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

. . . Zoo is the only show I hate watched (though I went into it with some hope). I watched the entire first season primarily because the forum was so much fun. Pretty much everyone hated the show - or at least mourned for the lost potential. . . .

I also enjoy hate watching Zoo, mostly, I think, because Billy Burke's character, with his witty, sardonic asides, stands as a kind of fourth-wall-breaking member of the snarky audience. I admire BCS too much to be objective, but I would guess that Odenkirk's Jimmy could stand for the same purpose.

 

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I figured Gus's sweeping was some kind of warning. A signal in plain sight. . . .

That makes sense. It was almost like he was giving the guy a visual message of sweeping him out the door.

 

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

. . . Also - does Mike ever sleep?

Seriously! We're all thinking that, amiright?

[Dev F]

9 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I think there's more to be seen there as far as the machinations Chuck had in motion.  Always took that scene as what we weren't seeing more than what we were being shown.  For me, I always watch Chuck for Machiavellian subtext because I see him as someone who feels he's the smartest guy in the room and entitled to be manipulating what's happening with "lesser lifeforms".

So what is the subtext to suggest that the point of the scene is exactly the opposite of what it seems to be on the surface? Chuck says pleasantly, "She's out of the doghouse, I assume," and Howard replies bitterly, "We'll see." Earlier in the same episode, Kim points out that she had been on Howard's shit list before in circumstances that had nothing to do with Chuck. I'm willing to entertain evidence, since Howard's dislike for Kim has been pretty lightly explored, but general arguments about Chuck's Machiavellian nature (which I think significantly overstate his deviousness, for whatever it's worth) don't constitute evidence of his influence in this particular case in which the writers went out of their way to exonerate him.

Quote

Howard may be the one out front and seen by many as the public face of HHM, but let's face it, Chuck wants it that way.  I believe it was simply H&M long before Howard was able to stand before the bar -- a fact I'm sure Chuck has been certain to keep subtly reminding Howard on the regular over the years.

As far as I can recall we have literally never seen Chuck do anything of the sort. Maybe I'm just less speculative by nature, but it seems odd to base a counterintuitive interpretation of a character's motivations on something we imagine he must've done off screen.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Dev F

[Captanne]

Part of the reason we see different things in a show, I think, is because of the way we're affected by the performances.  Things may not be black and white, scripted, or easy to trace.  One person sees something in a performance (body language, nuance, delivery) that someone else sees differently.  Personally, what I find so distasteful about Chuck is that he (for me) enjoys his cruelty.  Jimmy doesn't seem to really enjoy it the way Chuck does.  Jimmy is trying to redeem himself (and backsliding) while Chuck cloaks himself in self-righteousness when there are so many other ways to go about fixing a situation.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, Dobian said:

Chuck might be on the right side of the law, but he is on the wrong side of humanity.

They should have pulled this for the quotes on the PTV homepage. Love it.

[attica]

For a little while, I was thinking that maybe Chuck's endgame with the tape was to cause a rift between Kim and Jimmy, to ruin him in her eyes. So I was all 'Yesss!' when Kim's reaction to Ernie's confession was to take Jimmy on as a client (so like a lawyer!). But there I go, thinking too small. Chuck wanted a bigger scalp than Jimmy's unhappiness in love.

[Tikichick]

9 hours ago, Dev F said:

So what is the subtext to suggest that the point of the scene is exactly the opposite of what it seems to be on the surface? Chuck says pleasantly, "She's out of the doghouse, I assume," and Howard replies bitterly, "We'll see." Earlier in the same episode, Kim points out that she had been on Howard's shit list before in circumstances that had nothing to do with Chuck. I'm willing to entertain evidence, since Howard's dislike for Kim has been pretty lightly explored, but general arguments about Chuck's Machiavellian nature (which I think significantly overstate his deviousness, for whatever it's worth) don't constitute evidence of his influence in this particular case in which the writers went out of their way to exonerate him.

As far as I can recall we have literally never seen Chuck do anything of the sort. Maybe I'm just less speculative by nature, but it seems odd to base a counterintuitive interpretation of a character's motivations on something we imagine he must've done off screen.

Actually I believe we have seen an exchange with Howard and Chuck where Chuck references to the days he was in practice with Howard's father, cannot remember whether it was tied to the reveal that Chuck was manipulating Howard into being the scapegoat for not hiring Jimmy.  

The scene where Howard and Kim greet the Mesa Verde folks as they're arriving at HHM in particular caught my attention.  Howard's face was particularly stiff and his comments to Kim were oddly clipped, leaving me with the impression more was going on.  It bothered me enough to still be wondering about it through the rest of season two, the break and now into these new episodes.  I do believe there is much more to the situation than what played out for the audience so far.  One of the reasons I love the show is that it's like a book in that way, leaves you feel like you're reading along and mulling over what's in between the lines when something stands out to you as the reader. 

[Dobian]

If they write this story arc properly, a trial would be more damning to Chuck than to Jimmy.  Jimmy's defense would get into Chuck's whole illness and how he manipulated it to try and get Jimmy to confess something, which will make him look like a cretin.  They could bring up how his condition was medically disproven to be a physical malady (the time he was in the hospital and the doctor left some equipment turned on without Chuck's knowledge, with no reaction from him).  This would demonstrate that either Chuck is faking the whole thing, or it is some psychological disorder.  Either way, it wrecks his credibility, and supports the whole picture of him as this irrationally vindictive individual who has it in for his brother.  His calm, cool, smug demeanor won't help his cause either, especially to a jury.

[ShadowFacts]

55 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

The scene where Howard and Kim greet the Mesa Verde folks as they're arriving at HHM in particular caught my attention.  Howard's face was particularly stiff and his comments to Kim were oddly clipped, leaving me with the impression more was going on.  It bothered me enough to still be wondering about it through the rest of season two, the break and now into these new episodes.  I do believe there is much more to the situation than what played out for the audience so far.  One of the reasons I love the show is that it's like a book in that way, leaves you feel like you're reading along and mulling over what's in between the lines when something stands out to you as the reader. 

For sure, we all perceive these scenes through our own lenses, and are perhaps reminded of experiences we've had or people we've known.  For my own part, I have had no trouble thinking of Howard being somewhat of a prick in his own right, in his treatment of underlings, with no marionette string-pulling from Chuck necessarily behind it.

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, ShadowFacts said:

For sure, we all perceive these scenes through our own lenses, and are perhaps reminded of experiences we've had or people we've known.  For my own part, I have had no trouble thinking of Howard being somewhat of a prick in his own right, in his treatment of underlings, with no marionette string-pulling from Chuck necessarily behind it.

I see what you mean, however I have to look at what we have seen of Howard and his demeanor to evaluate what kind of guy I think he is.   I believe he told Kim HHM would forgive her tuition obligation at the time of her offer from the other large firm if she would stay with HHM.  Kim seemed very surprised at Howard's treatment of her with Mesa Verde, which wouldn't really have registered such a shock from her if he was known to be a jerk normally.  Howard also liked Jimmy, expected to bring him onboard and was uncomfortable with being the messenger forced to shut the door so firmly in Jimmy's face.

Unless I miss my guess, Chuck has made it his business to make Howard feel less knowledgeable, less experienced and simply less for years.  Howard may be nursing insecurities about his qualifications to be in the position he is, always wondering if it's only because he's his father's son.  Who knows what Howard's father was like, what his relationship with Chuck was like.  What I feel certain is Chuck would exploit every chink in Howard's armor for Chuck's benefit without a second thought, particularly if he ever felt in any way wronged by Howard's father and the bringing of Howard into the firm as a named partner.

[ShadowFacts]

8 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I see what you mean, however I have to look at what we have seen of Howard and his demeanor to evaluate what kind of guy I think he is.   I believe he told Kim HHM would forgive her tuition obligation at the time of her offer from the other large firm if she would stay with HHM.  Kim seemed very surprised at Howard's treatment of her with Mesa Verde, which wouldn't really have registered such a shock from her if he was known to be a jerk normally.  Howard also liked Jimmy, expected to bring him onboard and was uncomfortable with being the messenger forced to shut the door so firmly in Jimmy's face.

I have a fuzzy memory for details, but I thought Howard had Kim in the "corn field" for something before Mesa Verde ever happened.  Didn't she have a high-profile success with the Kettleman disposition, and after that Howard was somehow dismissive?  I defer to others who have a better memory of what happened in past seasons, but I thought he was not exactly treating Kim as if he would like her to stay at HHM, until she looked elsewhere.  Maybe he figured because of the tuition deal he didn't have to worry about keeping her and he could therefore send her to the corn field for any or no reason. 

[SnarkyTart]

Rallying the vote - BCS fans, if you have a few seconds to spare - please head on over to Previously TV's King of Disparate Things battle between "The Sexy Getting Ready Song" vs Jimmy's scene where he tells the story of the "Chicago Sunroof".  Vote for Jimmy for the win, here:  http://previously.tv/television/the-sexy-getting-ready-song-vs-chicago-sunroof/

[kieyra]

(Sadly I had to vote for Crazy Ex Girlfriend in the above poll, but thanks for posting it.)

Ugh, I'm still sitting at the "this is boring as shit and Chuck is too good as an antagonist because I want him off my screen two seasons ago" table. I know it's an empty table. I want to like the show. I like the podcast, which makes it clear they put their heart and soul into this show. But ten dialogue-free minutes of GPS shenanigans that I have to read the forums to understand just isn't entertaining. I'm also weary of the "kiss the baby" device where Jimmy Is Nice to Old Folks. We get it. Heart of gold. 

Going to give it one more episode, and if they want me to continue to watch people do surveillance that is as boring as actual real life surveillance would be, I'm going to have to call it quits. I have nothing to grab onto. The chemistry between Kim and Jimmy seems dead. Loathe Chuck. Five or six minutes spent on Howard climbing a fence?  

Alternately, I may skip a few episodes. I seem to recall that things became better paced towards the end of the previous season. And Mike got to, you know, have dialogue. 

[Bryce Lynch]

On 4/20/2017 at 1:20 AM, Dev F said:

So what is the subtext to suggest that the point of the scene is exactly the opposite of what it seems to be on the surface? Chuck says pleasantly, "She's out of the doghouse, I assume," and Howard replies bitterly, "We'll see." Earlier in the same episode, Kim points out that she had been on Howard's shit list before in circumstances that had nothing to do with Chuck. I'm willing to entertain evidence, since Howard's dislike for Kim has been pretty lightly explored, but general arguments about Chuck's Machiavellian nature (which I think significantly overstate his deviousness, for whatever it's worth) don't constitute evidence of his influence in this particular case in which the writers went out of their way to exonerate him.

As far as I can recall we have literally never seen Chuck do anything of the sort. Maybe I'm just less speculative by nature, but it seems odd to base a counterintuitive interpretation of a character's motivations on something we imagine he must've done off screen.

Good post.  At least on the surface, it appears the Howard, not Chuck was behind Kim's extended doc review duty.  She did cause him considerable embarrassment by convincing him to vouch for Jimmy with Davis and Main.  He might have seen her great work in getting Mesa Verde as a good first step in regaining her status, but needed to see more before he trusted her again.

Chuck tends to be demanding in a "polite" but condescending way towards most people.  But other than that, the only really bad behavior I have seen is towards Jimmy, and it is not totally without cause.  

On the podcasts, Vince Gilligan says that he probably likes Chuck more than most viewers do.  A lot of the other participants seem to hate Chuck.   

[Bryce Lynch]

On 4/20/2017 at 6:57 AM, Captanne said:

Part of the reason we see different things in a show, I think, is because of the way we're affected by the performances.  Things may not be black and white, scripted, or easy to trace.  One person sees something in a performance (body language, nuance, delivery) that someone else sees differently.  Personally, what I find so distasteful about Chuck is that he (for me) enjoys his cruelty.  Jimmy doesn't seem to really enjoy it the way Chuck does.  Jimmy is trying to redeem himself (and backsliding) while Chuck cloaks himself in self-righteousness when there are so many other ways to go about fixing a situation.

I don't really see Chuck as enjoying cruelty.  To me he seems like a man who sees himself as being on a "sacred" mission to stop Jimmy McGill from destroying the legal system and the McGill name by practicing law.  Anybody who gets in the way of that quest is likely to become collateral damage.  

[nodorothyparker]

Chuck isn't interested in cruelty, he's interested being right.  He knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's right about Jimmy and anyone who doesn't see it as he does is wrong and has to be shown that reality.  

If asked, I'm sure he'd say he's sympathetic enough to anyone caught in the crossfire, as in that great scene last season where he accused Jimmy of "ruining" a fine young woman like Kim, as another victim of Jimmy's.  But he would never see his own part in the destruction because he's so careful to stay within the confines of what he's legally allowed to do.  He may do assy things, but he does them legally and so it's all good for him as well.

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

Rallying the vote - BCS fans, if you have a few seconds to spare - please head on over to Previously TV's King of Disparate Things battle between "The Sexy Getting Ready Song" vs Jimmy's scene where he tells the story of the "Chicago Sunroof".  Vote for Jimmy for the win, here:  http://previously.tv/television/the-sexy-getting-ready-song-vs-chicago-sunroof/

I did as soon as I saw it. I was disappointed it didn't win. Sexy getting ready song doesn't do a thing for me, but Chicago Sun Roof does - what does that say about me? LOL

[Captanne]

See, for me, I do find him enjoying the cruelty.  And I do think he's cruel.  His motivations (the way he sleeps at night) is that he's is "right".  I completely agree that his intentions are based in self-righteousness.

My problem is that he is an unreliable narrator; I can't trust his motives.

That's because I vividly remember the doctor's scene in the hospital when she demonstrated to Jimmy and Kim that Chuck is insane and his illness is entirely mental.  

Everything I witness now is taken through that lens.

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Chuck tends to be demanding in a "polite" but condescending way towards most people.  But other than that, the only really bad behavior I have seen is towards Jimmy, and it is not totally without cause. 

I don't think it's simply a case of Jimmy brings out the worst in Chuck, otherwise he's not so bad.  I think his whole illness is some deep-seeded psychological exercise in control. He is both condescending toward and manipulative of Ernesto.  He's better than you and will make sure you know it.  And if you cross him he will make your life miserable.  I'm sure many lawyers at his firm over the years made sure not to get on his bad side for fear of retribution.  Vindictiveness is a character trait, and Chuck has that in spades.  He's an older man who has no real friends and his girlfriend left him.  The only people who socialize with him outside of Jimmy are his law firm partners, who respect him, but no one really likes him.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Dobian

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Dobian said:

I don't think it's simply a case of Jimmy brings out the worst in Chuck, otherwise he's not so bad.  He is both condescending toward and manipulative of Ernesto.  I think his whole illness is some deep-seeded psychological exercise in control.  He's better than you and will make sure you know it.  And if you cross him he will make your life miserable.  I'm sure many lawyers at his firm over the years made sure not to get on his bad side for fear of retribution.  Vindictiveness is a character trait.  Chuck has that in spades.

Could be, but we haven't seen him be vindictive about anything but the Jimmy situation.  He is clearly snobbish and condescending, but that does not necessarily make him vindictive, in a general way, outside of his sibling rivalry with Jimmy.  

[Tikichick]

6 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Chuck isn't interested in cruelty, he's interested being right.  He knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's right about Jimmy and anyone who doesn't see it as he does is wrong and has to be shown that reality.  

If asked, I'm sure he'd say he's sympathetic enough to anyone caught in the crossfire, as in that great scene last season where he accused Jimmy of "ruining" a fine young woman like Kim, as another victim of Jimmy's.  But he would never see his own part in the destruction because he's so careful to stay within the confines of what he's legally allowed to do.  He may do assy things, but he does them legally and so it's all good for him as well.

Chuck cannot conceive he's interested in cruelty and holds himself out as being a crusader for good. 

If Kim is indeed "ruined" with Mesa Verde being made aware of the "verite" of the situation it will be because she did not heed Chuck's attempts to warn her about Jimmy and where associating with him would lead.   Remember, he only used the tape with Howard because he felt Howard absolutely needed to know the "verite" of the situation.  

I'm sure Chuck will be sick indeed if consequences rain down on Kim and Ernesto.  I look for Chuck's symptoms to get much, much worse as he desperately attempts to convince himself he was acting on the side of the angels all along. 

[Irlandesa]

On 4/20/2017 at 5:57 AM, Captanne said:

Part of the reason we see different things in a show, I think, is because of the way we're affected by the performances.  Things may not be black and white, scripted, or easy to trace.  One person sees something in a performance (body language, nuance, delivery) that someone else sees differently.  Personally, what I find so distasteful about Chuck is that he (for me) enjoys his cruelty.  Jimmy doesn't seem to really enjoy it the way Chuck does.  Jimmy is trying to redeem himself (and backsliding) while Chuck cloaks himself in self-righteousness when there are so many other ways to go about fixing a situation.

I think we've seen enough of Jimmy to see that he enjoys the freaking hell out of a con.  And my memory is hazy but I don't recall him being disturbed while he was manufacturing the documents.  It was only after he saw the distress it was causing did he feel upset. 

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think we've seen enough of Jimmy to see that he enjoys the freaking hell out of a con.  And my memory is hazy but I don't recall him being disturbed while he was manufacturing the documents.  It was only after he saw the distress it was causing did he feel upset. 

 Yes, I don't see Jimmy much as redeeming himself and backsliding, to me he seems more like sliding toward Saul-dom.  Not only did he do a really shitty thing in altering those documents (and criminal), he is very eager to engage in whatever Mike is doing.  I think he gets an endorphin rush from all of that. 

[peeayebee]

23 hours ago, Captanne said:

My problem is that he is an unreliable narrator; I can't trust his motives.

That's because I vividly remember the doctor's scene in the hospital when she demonstrated to Jimmy and Kim that Chuck is insane and his illness is entirely mental.  

I wouldn't say he's insane, but his illness IS psychosomatic. Didn't it crop up after his wife died? I'm not sure I'm remembering that right.

[editorgrrl]

7 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I wouldn't say he's insane, but his illness IS psychosomatic. Didn't it crop up after his wife died? I'm not sure I'm remembering that right.

Chuck's divorced, not a widower. When confronting Chuck, Jimmy said: "You taped me? You asshole! You pulled that heartstrings con job on me? You piece of shit! [imitating Chuck] 'Oh, my brain used to work. I'm sick. I don't know what to do.' [in normal voice] Asshole! No wonder Rebecca left you. What took her so long?"

[scenario]

Both Chuck and Jimmy have good and bad traits. When I see Chuck, I see someone who is basically a sociopath. He has no friends, only employee's and partners. He looks down at everyone around him. He has to always be in control. If he had been raised differently, he could be another Gus Fring. I could see Chuck stealing an old widows life savings, if he could do it legally. 

I look at Jimmy as someone who craves excitement. He will steal but almost always from other thieves. I can't see him tricking an old widow out of her life savings.

The biggest difference between them is that Chuck will never change. He would be the exact same person if he hadn't seen Jimmy since he went off to college. But I think that Jimmy could change, if he had the right people around him. He'd always have that urge for excitement but he could learn to control it. 

It's difficult to root for Chuck because he's manipulative and awful to everyone around him but gets away with it because he is such a superb lawyer, but you know he'll never change. Jimmy does a lot of terrible things but he give hope that maybe some day he will change for the better. 

[SnarkyTart]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

It's difficult to root for Chuck because he's manipulative and awful to everyone around him but gets away with it because he is such a superb lawyer, but you know he'll never change. Jimmy does a lot of terrible things but he give hope that maybe some day he will change for the better. 

That sounds kind of like Chuck = Walter White,  and Jimmy = Jesse Pinkman

[queenanne]

On 4/18/2017 at 3:25 PM, Bryce Lynch said:

Well, we know Jimmy keeps his law license so it is pretty clear he doesn't get convicted of anything serious in the Chuck matter.  We also know he changes his name to Saul Goodman, and I can't see much reason for that, unless Chuck demanded it (unless he was telling Walt the truth when he said it was because the home boys wanted a pipe-hitting member of the tribe, so to speak).

Absolutely agreed - in fact, I feel like it's true that the one reason you cannot call yourself by a different name other than the name on your birth certificate/public records, is because you are looking to cover up the consequences of a criminal act.  Especially not and be the type of lawyer who advertises on bus stops with big pictures under a different name. Clearly the one thing that does not happen to Jimmy, is facing criminal or civil charges off his actions before becoming Saul, imo (not a spoiler but legally speaking).

[Captanne]

peeyabee, with the understanding that Chuck's electrical allergy is pyschosomatic, I try to look at his living conditions and behavior.  They just don't look sane to me.  He can't function in society.  

Jimmy may backslide into his former life (and I think he did enjoy being a con) but at least he can struggle along with the rest of us in our weird societal ways.

What makes this show so fascinating is that I can argue against my own stand -- Chuck's level of self-crippling isn't illegal.  Whereas, while I say Jimmy can operate in society barely detected as out of the ordinary, what his "out of the ordinary" is is illegal.  ("Illegal" being the definition of societal-dysfunctional behavior, right?)

Given that debate, though, there are degrees of norm and Chuck, for me, is way outside of them.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Captanne

[Broderbits]

On 4/22/2017 at 9:43 AM, ShadowFacts said:

 Yes, I don't see Jimmy much as redeeming himself and backsliding, to me he seems more like sliding toward Saul-dom.  Not only did he do a really shitty thing in altering those documents (and criminal), he is very eager to engage in whatever Mike is doing.  I think he gets an endorphin rush from all of that. 

Yep, Jimmy's a "deep roller" and craves the action; writing all those wills must really be getting to him.

I think it really galls Chuck that Jimmy can do so many bad things and still be loved and forgiven, and Chuck has made it his life's obsession to change that. Anyone else who gets hurt along the way should have known better; after all, Chuck has been trying to show the world the "real" Jimmy for years.

To me, the biggest sign of Chuck's mental illness isn't the electrical phobia; it's making his own brother his White Whale.

[ShadowFacts]

We haven't yet seen when Chuck started declining.  He was at one time fully functional, he had a very successful career and was highly regarded.  He was married.  He wasn't always ruled by his resentment of Jimmy.  He bailed him out of trouble, and brought him to Albuquerque, giving him a job in his firm.  He didn't have to do that.  Would have been easier and cleaner to have him at a distance and not have him right under his own nose.  I think things probably went OK with Jimmy in the mail room, and that went south when he busted out with his surprise law degree and went from a likeable underachiever to a likeable lawyer.  But we haven't seen the unraveling, or what else might have happened.  Any particular reason for the extreme electrico-magnetic fears?  I am sort of interested, but then again, I'm sort of done with Chuck's crap.

[Clanstarling]

25 minutes ago, Broderbits said:

To me, the biggest sign of Chuck's mental illness isn't the electrical phobia; it's making his own brother his White Whale.

This. I've called him hot mess of crazy, but I meant his obsession with revenge. The other stuff is more like anxiety attacks on a hugely different scale - for someone who, rather than admit it and seek treatment, has enough money to retreat from the world and make it cater to him.

I think it was Rebecca leaving him that triggered his illness.

If these things can ever have a logical reason, I wonder if, on some level, his phobia is there to keep him from using phones and computers, which are partly means to communicate with people who you can't talk to in person.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Captanne]

When I look at how the two brothers are leading their lives, I see one who is struggling with his own demons to start a legitimate law firm (and take care of his sick brother) and the other who lives inside a TV dinner tray and demands that the world cater to his self-righteous but obsessive-beyond-his-means attempts discredit and destroy his brother.

Sane?  There isn't much to debate for me.

[bad things are bad]

Quote

A gorgeous '72 green Chevy Blazer that needs to be in my driveway...like...yesterday.

We might need a "cars" thread for BCS.

I first realized we were about to see Gus when they showed his Volvo wagon. Vince G is very careful to have a carefully chosen vehicle for his characters. Jimmy's beater--Esteem, LOL, and then the MB company car. Mike's nondescript Buicks, Howard's Jag (off), Kim's girl-sports-car. 

He did the same in BB, where the cars had clearly been given some thought. 

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, bad things are bad said:

We might need a "cars" thread for BCS.

I first realized we were about to see Gus when they showed his Volvo wagon. Vince G is very careful to have a carefully chosen vehicle for his characters. Jimmy's beater--Esteem, LOL, and then the MB company car. Mike's nondescript Buicks, Howard's Jag (off), Kim's girl-sports-car. 

He did the same in BB, where the cars had clearly been given some thought. 

Don't forget Ernie's blue Evo...spoiler alert! :)

[Juliegirlj]

When Kim told Howard she was going to start her own law practice, Howard waxed poetic for a minute, and you could see that all is not roses for him at HHM, and that it was his fathers dream, not his own. Ultimately I think Howard will realize he must get Chuck out of the practice ( and secretly has always liked "Jimmy Hustle". 

One thing I've noticed is the camera occasionally resting on Jimmy's hand with his deceased friend's pinkie ring on it. Symbolic of Jimmy being true to himself. However, I can't recall if Gene was wearing the ring??