S06.E17: Awake

[Curio]

What was the point in keeping Hook separated in different realms for all these episodes if Emma ended up being the one who went and brought him back anyways? Sure, Hook's shadow delivered the wand to Emma, but even if his shadow wasn't able to do that, Emma still would have gotten the wand from him when she traveled through the magic door. So really, all of Hook's realm-hopping was a complete waste. 

I thought for sure Gideon poofed the flowers away to Neverland and that's how Hook's banishment would come in handy. Instead of Gideon leaving behind one stray flower, Gideon knowingly sending the flowers to Hook in Neverland would have been a sign that Gideon was secretly helping the good guys behind the Black Fairy's back without her knowing. "Where did you end up moving those flowers, Dearie?" "I sent them far...far away." Then, at least Hook's banishment would have been useful because Hook's shadow could have delivered Emma a pixie flower instead of the wand, and he could have made a personal effort in attempting to break Snow and Charming's curse as a way of making up for Robert's death. Actually, now I'm pissed that didn't happen because it would have been really poetic. Hook sacrifices his life by ripping out his shadow in order to deliver a flower to Emma and her parents with the hope that the flower can break the sleeping curse, but in the end, Hook sending that flower is actually what saves him because Emma uses it to open the door and bring him back. His selfless act trying to help Snowing is what ends up saving him. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

There wasn't which was why they should have made an argument that, in an episode where Regina was threatening to blow up Archie, that Regina would murder everyone before Emma grew up if they weren't around for her to "punish" rather than Emma wouldn't become the savior.

As with so many things on this show, it would have been such an easy fix. Add one line about what Regina might do to the whole town, that it's not just about making Emma fulfill her destiny. Even so, there's that pesky little issue of then having let Regina go without a thought before she had a chance to cast the curse.

I guess with the special wand Tiger Lily gave Hook we have the point of Hook's little side adventure, though it still seems awfully contrived. Couldn't they have achieved that without the murder plot? Gideon could have sent Hook away without it. Emma would have been sad enough to cry about him being missing without it. As it is, they introduced a major thing for the characters, but it's now no big deal. David's cool with it because it was a long time ago. There's no mention of how Emma gave up on Hook immediately or of how the other characters also agreed with her about him just running off. It will have no long-term consequences for the characters. They might as well have had Gideon just send Hook off while he was saying good-bye to his brother, maybe making it look like the Nautilus was destroyed so that Emma would cry, and it wouldn't have changed the plot or the character relationships one bit. I guess the only thing that would have changed would have been proposal #2, but they could have done a proper proposal without the murder plot, or they could have held the proposal for his return.

[PixiePaws1]

Really liked Tiger Lily ... the little smile she gave seeing Emma get Hook to safety was very pixie like.

That was the second anvil the BF dropped about being part of a family.....

Actually liked Regina (present version) this week. No smugness,  no cruel words...

Also like Zelena...so nice they let her out of the chair she was glued to in 6a.

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

We need to take up donations to get Snow a new hairstylist.  It's so bad

Next week we'll find that she got a good haircut under the Curse, but everyone has forgotten about it.

2 hours ago, Worsel said:

But why did BF give the Dagger back?

Because Rumple has to give The Stick back ... sorry, wrong show... come to Mommy of his own choice.

1 hour ago, scenicbyway said:

Why did David revert back into a coma?

To reset to the parameters before the (wretched) retcon.

1 hour ago, mjgchick said:

Yeah in S1 this would've been amazing but this is totally a retcon these idiots think was brilliant

This would have fit in S1 before we knew all about the curse, but here it's totally out of place.

50 minutes ago, MaiLuna said:

I wish Hook had actually apologized to Charming!

I think he was about to before David cut him off.

11 minutes ago, Curio said:

So really, all of Hook's realm-hopping was a complete waste.

Other than the few minutes of fun with Blackbeard.

[PixiePaws1]

Can we consider for a moment how incredibly magical and glorious it would have been for little Emma, already terribly hurt and jaded by a foster system that takes all illusions from little kids...to have a magical door open and her true parents, Snow White and Prince Charming, rescue her!

I need this fan fic to be written....!!

[Frozendiva]

2 hours ago, Sabs said:

couldn't they at least have put something in that goblet?  being empty was SO stupid looking!

It seemed to be the never-ending goblet of whatever magical drink was in it.

[PixiePaws1]

1 minute ago, Frozendiva said:

It seemed to be the never-ending goblet of whatever magical drink was in it.

I have this thought that they edited the hell out of this sequence so a prop person could sneak in and wipe the cup each time someone put their mouth on it...way to break the mood..

[Curio]

"I will always, always be by your side." Literally, the next episode's trailer: Emma is off without Hook hanging out with Zelena and Regina.

These writers really don't compare script notes with each other, do they...

[Noneofyourbusiness]

I should say that the weak (or nonexistent, unquestioned) logic behind Emma and David not being able to raise Emma as the Savior was the only part of the episode I didn't like. Apart from Emma's top. Since when does she raid Mother Superior's closet?

26 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

Can we consider for a moment how incredibly magical and glorious it would have been for little Emma, already terribly hurt and jaded by a foster system that takes all illusions from little kids...to have a magical door open and her true parents, Snow White and Prince Charming, rescue her!

I need this fan fic to be written....!!

Word.

46 minutes ago, Curio said:

What was the point in keeping Hook separated in different realms for all these episodes if Emma ended up being the one who went and brought him back anyways? Sure, Hook's shadow delivered the wand to Emma, but even if his shadow wasn't able to do that, Emma still would have gotten the wand from him when she traveled through the magic door. So really, all of Hook's realm-hopping was a complete waste.

He wouldn't have gotten the wand if he hadn't gone to Neverland and met Tiger Lily.

[superloislane]

I did enjoy this episode well enough.

CAPTAIN SWAN ARE FINALLY REUNITED!!!! AND A PROPOSAL!!!!

Why do they refuse to let them have a TLK? I really thought they would have one and that would break the curse on Snowing. I mean yes a couple breaking the curse on another couple with TLK is strange but it's better than what we got.

Snowing pretty much had a TLK with the townspeople...no wonder. Why couldn't they have rounded out the episode with Emma kissing them? Would that have been so hard? But instead they just made sure to let us know that the townspeople come first...again. And those people better be kissing Emma's ass because it was her sacrifice that she didn't even get a choice in.

Daddy Charming still lives. The look on his face when he saw Emma and the fact that he was the one who was really determined to get to her meant everything to me and fit with his character. Of course it was Snow who made the decision to leave Emma. Did anyone doubt that? She's the worst mother ever and I'm not kidding. She actually put random people in a town over her own daughter FOR NO REASON. There's absolutely no reason why Emma had to grow up alone and unloved to become the Savior especially since Snow was originally going to go with Emma through the wardrobe in the first place! Why did they not worry about her not being the Savior then? They could have easily raised her and brought her to Storybrooke but this time she would have actually been more prepared! Snow does not deserve to call herself a mother and honestly at this point I'm glad Emma escaped her as a child. Snow would have sold her to save Pongo if she needed to.

I loved David reminding Regina that she put them under the curse. No 'The Evil Queen did it!' nonsense.

I like that they confirmed that Rumple only woke up when he heard Emma's name. That's never been confirmed by the show before.

Still not getting this Black Fairy thing - she's the source of all darkness? What about Nimue? And why is she suddenly interested in Rumple when she didn't give a crap about him for centuries?

I knew they wouldn't have a satisfying conclusion to the Hook/Charming story because it was there just to cause angst for a little bit so why the hell did they even introduce it in the first place when they could have written anything else and had the same angst?

I'm laughing so much at the one flower growing for Regina's evil and the whole field for the Black Fairy. As far as we've seen the BF hasn't done anything worse than Regina so that's just the typical 'She's sooo evil and you have to believe it because we're telling you!' stuff from these writers.

I'm such a sap because Hook's shadow caressing Emma's face made me go awwww.

Edited April 17, 2017 by superloislane

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Actually, I also don't like how instantly Emma forgave Snow and David without even a little bit of angst to work through after Snow told her the truth, like it was nothing. Same as her reaction when she and Snow learned Geppetto lied about how many people could use the wardrobe, and only Snow was mad about it (which again reminds us of the "she can't be the Savior if we raise her" fallacy).

[superloislane]

2 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I'm so sick of this being the Emma and Hook show.

They've been separated for multiple episodes already and both were in it for maybe 10 minutes???

[Noneofyourbusiness]

6 minutes ago, superloislane said:

Still not getting this Black Fairy thing - she's the source of all darkness? What about Nimue? And why is she suddenly interested in Rumple when she didn't give a crap about him for centuries?

And how can she say "you were always such a clever boy" (or something like that) when she didn't raise him? I hope that doesn't presage another reveal retcon.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[oncebluethrone]

CAPTAIN SWAN IS REUNITED!!! THEY ARE ENGAGED!!! SNOWING IS AWAKE!!!

I loved, loved, loved this episode. So much. It had scenes between all my favorite main pairings (Captain Swan, Snowing, Snow and Emma, David and Emma, and Captain Charming), the second CS proposal was beautiful, Snowing’s awake, the flashbacks were amazing (I don't mind that Snowing didn't get Emma, having them see her was good enough/I don't mind retcons), the Black Fairy’s still deliciously creepy, and the episode had the added bonus of introducing Tiger Lily, a great character who just happens to be a former fairy and wants to help Emma defeat the Black Fairy with help from the most powerful wand ever. The episode flowed together beautifully, the music was perfect, it was filled with heartfelt and touching moments, and I’m pretty sure it’s my favorite episode of the season so far. 

[Rumsy4]

3 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

And how can she say "you were always such a clever boy" (or something like that) when she didn't raise him? I hope that doesn't presage another reveal retcon.

She was one of the old women who raised him. She hid her identity for reasons.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

She was one of the old women who raised him. She hid her identity for reasons.

And she was just pretending not to know that Rumplestiltskin was her abandoned baby's name.

[Curio]

2 minutes ago, oncebluethrone said:

I’m pretty sure it’s my favorite episode of the season so far. 

 

I'm pretty sure this is the only episode I've liked the entire way through in Season 6. I was this close to liking the David centric, but the Robert retcon still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So yeah, this is probably the first episode I've liked in its entirety since "Last Rites" nearly a year ago. Damn...I didn't realize how long it's been since I've truly enjoyed an episode of this show. Wait, why am I still watching if I only end up liking one episode per calendar year?

8 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Actually, I also don't like how instantly Emma forgave Snow and David without even a little bit of angst to work through after Snow told her the truth, like it was nothing. Same as her reaction when she and Snow learned Geppetto lied about how many people could use the wardrobe, and only Snow was mad about it (which again reminds us of the "she can't be the Savior if we raise her" fallacy).

 

Yeah, why was there so much angst about Killian keeping a decades-old secret about a man Emma never even met, but when it's revealed that Snow kept a decades-old secret that she could have raised Emma when she was a little girl, it's a total non-issue?

16 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

He wouldn't have gotten the wand if he hadn't gone to Neverland and met Tiger Lily.

 

I get that, but I feel like it could have been handled so much better. Why doesn't the show ever set up these kinds of things episodes in advance? Earlier in the season, they could have hinted at a powerful wand that could defeat the Black Fairy, but no one knows where it went. Dropping small clues like that throughout the season would have gone a long way in making Hook's adventure not seem totally useless. But by introducing the driftwood wand in this episode, it comes across as yet another deus ex machina magical item that just conveniently happened to appear at the last second. 

I think my main gripe is that it was kind of a waste of time to have Hook's shadow give Emma the wand when Emma went and saved Hook anyways. I can see there was a reason for Hook to be in Neverland to grab the wand from Tiger Lily, but there was no reason why his shadow needed to give Emma the wand when Emma went to Neverland herself at the end of the episode. Obviously, Hook the character didn't know Emma would come to the island, but as a writer, why waste time on having the shadow give something to Emma that wasn't absolutely necessary for the plot in this episode? That's why I think it would have made a lot more sense if Hook's shadow delivered a pixie flower to Emma instead of the wand because the flower was actually essential to breaking the curse during this episode. Hook's shadow giving Emma the wand is basically the equivalent to me spending a lot of money to overnight ship a gift to my friend across the country because I didn't think I'd see them for a while, but then literally a few hours later they surprise-visit my house in person and say, "Thanks for the gift!" If they were going to show up in person anyways, why did I spend all that money shipping it to them when they could have just picked it up in person for free? Again, the characters obviously don't have the foresight to know that was going to happen, but the writers sure did.

[Frozendiva]

51 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

I have this thought that they edited the hell out of this sequence so a prop person could sneak in and wipe the cup each time someone put their mouth on it...way to break the mood..

Easier to find a package of plastic or paper cups and pour the potion in to each cup. Not as enrivonmentally friendly but a lot safer and hygienic.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

13 minutes ago, Curio said:

IYeah, why was there so much angst about Killian keeping a decades-old secret about a man Emma never even met, but when it's revealed that Snow kept a decades-old secret that she could have raised Emma when she was a little girl, it's a total non-issue?

Because the writers didn't want to deal with it. Sigh.

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

And one survived Gideon's destruction because it "had to".

I actually liked that. The pixie flowers were there for a reason, after all, a reason of magical capital G Goodness, and some hope will always survive. But then it was subverted as Gideon defying the Black Fairy by leaving one.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Camera One]

On paper, I should have liked this one... Snowing flashback, Emma and David have a conversation, Emma and Snow walk through the woods together, finally Sleeping Curse broken.  But sadly, I was mostly unmoved through much of it.  

The "Let's all drink poison!" was the most ridiculous thing we've seen since the fountain or when they all held hands to stop Robin from going to hell.  If Emma is going to fight The Final Battle, is it really a good idea for her to have a sip?  I guess we don't need to worry about stunting Henry's growth at this point, right?  And the "suspense" with all their "friends" giving side-eyes and not stepping up to drink... is that really what "inspired" townspeople act like?  

While I was initially excited to see Cursed Town flashback and was mildly intrigued by Snow and Charming "waking up", that was the first of many retcons which were ultimately damaging yet again to Snowing.  The first thing they decide to do was to see Rumple.  For once, can we see the "heroes" trying something on their own without the help of a villain?  If Regina was willing to explode Archie in a tunnel, who's to say she wouldn't corral everyone in there as hostages?  And what sudden "evil" 10 years into the curse resulted in the Pixie flower growing?

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Not to mention Snow was originally planning on going with Emma. So she would have grown up with her mother's love and being raised by her mother and still broken the curse. But being raised by both parents, even starting at age ten would have been a bad thing?

Now now now, you can't expect The Writers to remember that.  They're on a tight deadline, you know.  This retcon makes no sense.  As many pointed out, Snow was meant to go with Emma, and she would still have become "The Savior".  It's obvious they spent zero time thinking about this because they had no creativity and couldn't write an "emotional" flashback without creating another shameful Snow moment where she says, "But it IS our fault."  Yeah, everything is, you know.

Why would Tiger Lily suddenly know about The Final Battle and The Black Fairy was going to kill The Savior, when the people in Storybrooke found out in this episode?  Did she get a day-ahead news update from the Ex-Fairy listserve?  I did like her, but it's lame to bring in a new character to be the "cause" of The Black Fairy turning dark, when we already have Blue.

So this episode was Memory drink, round how many this season?  And the shaky hands are back... grrrreat.  

That Evil Queen put in a failsafe to make the Curse worse and didn't tell Regina about it?  She deserved a happy ending because???  This makes it even dumber that Regina sent her away before she fixed the problems she caused.

I'm glad Hook is back and the Shadow thing was kind of sweet, so I didn't mind that as a prelude to Emma saving him in the fastest realm-travel rescue ever.  Sheesh, an entire episode could have been devoted to that instead of... Gideon's sob story maybe?  

Edited April 17, 2017 by Camera One

[OnceUponAJen]

20 minutes ago, Curio said:

I think my main gripe is that it was kind of a waste of time to have Hook's shadow give Emma the wand when Emma went and saved Hook anyways. I can see there was a reason for Hook to be in Neverland to grab the wand from Tiger Lily, but there was no reason why his shadow needed to give Emma the wand when Emma went to Neverland herself at the end of the episode. Obviously, Hook the character didn't know Emma would come to the island, but as a writer, why waste time on having the shadow give something to Emma that wasn't absolutely necessary for the plot in this episode?

I think the shadow was used to scare Emma and make Snow realize that she wanted to sacrifice the pixie dust flower so that Emma and Hook could be reunited.

Edited April 17, 2017 by OnceUponAJen

[Worsel]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

3 hours ago, MaiLuna said:

 

I liked Tiger Lily and I wish she'd have gone through the portal, it doesn't seem she has much fun in Neverland.

 

I liked Tiger Lily. I wish they'd found a way to bring her back with them. She was grinning at the end. Was there some reason for her to be happy? Hook had already found a way to get the wand to Emma, which was all she wanted. I'm not sure why she'd have been that happy to see Hook get away, unless there's something else going on.

I assume that out of guilt Tiger Lily felt compelled to remain in Neverland as punishment for her role in the Black Fairy's path to darkness.  Although I would also have preferred she come through the portal.

[Camera One]

16 minutes ago, Worsel said:

I assume that out of guilt Tiger Lily felt compelled to remain in Neverland as punishment for her role in the Black Fairy's path to darkness.  Although I would also have preferred she come through the portal.

They also can't have anyone in town who knows anything until the season finale.

[Camera One]

5 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I think they should have done the Snowing flashbacks in a dreamworld rather than a retcon.  It felt a bit like they just needed Snowing to make sacrifices to justify the town coming together to save them because nothing that happens before the current episode counts.

Yes, that is a really good idea.  The flashbacks could actually have been the recurring dream that Snow and Charming were having for the last few weeks.  In the dream, they would wake up during the Curse with the pixie flower, take the portal door to Young Emma, get to know her and try to adopt her.  They tell Emma all about how she will break a Curse when she grows up.  The social worker accuses them of making Emma believe in delusions and take her away from them.  The sleeping curse is all about regret so it makes sense they would have this dream where Emma is taken away over and over again.  Snow could still tell Emma to use the pixie flower dust to find Hook, because she knows that she and Charming will still get to spend time with Young Emma in the dream world.  That would have been poignant.  To break the Curse, Hook could bring back something to allow Emma to enter the Dream World (makes sense, since he came from Neverland), and in the last part of the episode, Adult Emma shows up in the dream and gets Young Emma successfully adopted by Snow and Charming, and they wake up/Sleeping Curse broken.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

So this was a fun episode until it wasn't. Then I spent a good amount of time raging at how much I despise Snow as a mother. Wow. Anyone else remember when Emma told Snow in S2 that she wasn't used to anyone putting her first? Guess what, Emma.

Some notes:

- David was looking really, really hot especially in the scene in the snowy woods. Yes, I'm shallow.

- Hook fell down the same embankment that Belle fell down when being chased by Bear!Merida. Good to know that it moved from Storybrooke to Neverland.

- When did Emma become a Pilgrim?

- Dear God the Snowing retcon. Can we just begin with Snow "we don't keep secrets from loved ones" White? Eggnapping, choosing Storybrooke over Emma. Who even is this woman? She threw her child away and just expected her to be happy about it when they were reunited. It's nice that she chose letting Regina go over the happiness and safety of the people in her kingdom, but her ten year old daughter doesn't get the same treatment.

- I like the Black Fairy, but the Stiltskin storyline bores me.

- Where was Tiger Lily when the Saviour was in Neverland? You'd think she would have been interested in meeting her since she seems to know all about her and the final battle.

- That solution to the sleeping curse was really lame. Also, I kind of wish Snow remained asleep forever. It would probably be better for Emma that way.

Edited April 17, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[PixiePaws1]

20 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

So this was a fun episode until it wasn't. Then I spent a good amount of time raging at how much I despise Snow as a mother. Wow. Anyone else remember when Emma told Snow in S2 that she wasn't used to anyone putting her first? Guess what, Emma.

- Dear God the Snowing retcon. Can we just begin with Snow "we don't keep secrets from loved ones" White? Eggnapping, choosing Storybrooke over Emma. Who even is this woman? She threw her child away and just expected her to be happy about it when they were reunited. It's nice that she chose letting Regina go over the happiness and safety of the people in her kingdom, but her ten year old daughter doesn't get the same treatment.

- That solution to the sleeping curse was really lame. Also, I kind of wish Snow remained asleep forever. It would probably be better for Emma that way.

You have to give the make up people credit. I couldn't see any of the bruising on Ginny's forehead. You know, from after banging her head against a wall when she read the script.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

There were so many things that didn't make sense or required huge leaps in this episode.

First, Regina tells David that she's working on something to break the sleeping curse but she needs to test it to make sure it's safe. David's response: "Emma needs us for The Final Battle so we'll do anything! Give it to me now!" Dude, you realize that this untested cure could do anything from make the curse permanent to make you explode, right? That's why Regina said she needs to test it before just pouring it down your throat. She isn't stalling. She wants to make sure that it works and won't kill you, but you're willing to take that chance because Emma needs BOTH her parents at her side for The Final Battle.

Next, Regina and Zelena try the untested cure. Snow gasps so Regina interprets that to mean "if we don't find a cure by tonight, you will both be asleep at the same time." Seriously? You got a specific time line AND the potential outcome from Snow gasping and clutching at her chest? What if it was just indigestion? What if she was having a heart attack? I mean, FFS.

Tiger Lily knocks out Hook to force him to take The Most Powerful Magic Wand Ever Created to Emma in order to save the entire multiverse. How did she know that Hook was going to run into the Lost Boys at that very spot? If he hadn't had the misfortune to coincidentally end up in Neverland, how was Tiger Lily planning to get this oh so important magic wand to Emma? Why can't she bring the wand to Emma? Oh, because she's stuck in Neverland? If that's the case, then how does she know that the Black Fairy is in Storybrooke and the Savior needs this wand to defeat her? Is she reading this on the Ex-Fairies Message Board using magical wifi?

Hook tells Tiger Lily that the woman he is so desperate to return to and the savior who Tiger Lily wants him to deliver the wand to are the same person. As proof, he tells her to look at the diamond ring in his pocket. How does that prove anything? All it proves is that Hook had a shiny ring in his pocket. He's a pirate. He could have stolen that from anyone! And where did Tiger Lily get this magic wand? Has she been hoarding it since her fairy days for a special occasion?

Regina decides that the way to break HER sleeping curse is to have everyone in town who loves the Charmings drink part of the original potion. First of all, what the what? When she originally made the potion, she made a big old party sized vat of it, gave the Charmings a tiny bit, and then kept the rest in a silver goblet in case anyone else made her mad? But on top of that, hello, that's a pretty big leap to get to that conclusion. That's beyond guesstimating. Hey, everyone! You know that sleeping curse I made that totally fucked over Snow and David? Have some too! No, no, it won't hurt you...probably. It might even wake those two up! I just can't.

I started tuning out near the end of the episode so did Gold say that against the Black Fairy's wishes, Gideon didn't really magically prevent Hook from returning to Storybrooke? Because if not, how is it that something was preventing him from coming back before but Emma using the magical door let him come back?

10 hours ago, Worsel said:

And just how many “most powerful” wands are there now? Wasn't Merlin's supposed to be the most powerful?  Or the Black Fairy's?  I'm confused about this.  Are they parts of a larger most powerful wand?

 

9 hours ago, OnceUponAJen said:

Yes, the Elder Wand!  LOL!

Don't forget about The Magic Stick on Grimm!

Remember S1 Emma with the badass leather jackets? Now she's wearing black sweaters and Peter Pan collars. Girl.

Edited April 17, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[mjgchick]

That .2 second Captain Aswan adventure was lit. Now just imagine if we had Emma and Hook fighting against Lost boys just to get home together for an episode or two. *Sigh*

[greekmom]

What really peeved me was Snow and Charming black and white decision making about Emma.  "If we go to her, she cannot be the Savior".

What good was Charming under a coma all those years?  He certainly could have left Storybrooke, brought up Emma on his own and help her realize she is the Savior.   Snow in turn could have faked being MM all those years just to keep a one up on Regina.

It's the fact that both are selfish about staying together to the point they would give up their daughter that makes them really crappy parents.

Is baby Neil still with Granny?

[legaleagle53]

8 hours ago, Curio said:

I think my main gripe is that it was kind of a waste of time to have Hook's shadow give Emma the wand when Emma went and saved Hook anyways. I can see there was a reason for Hook to be in Neverland to grab the wand from Tiger Lily, but there was no reason why his shadow needed to give Emma the wand when Emma went to Neverland herself at the end of the episode. Obviously, Hook the character didn't know Emma would come to the island, but as a writer, why waste time on having the shadow give something to Emma that wasn't absolutely necessary for the plot in this episode? That's why I think it would have made a lot more sense if Hook's shadow delivered a pixie flower to Emma instead of the wand because the flower was actually essential to breaking the curse during this episode. Hook's shadow giving Emma the wand is basically the equivalent to me spending a lot of money to overnight ship a gift to my friend across the country because I didn't think I'd see them for a while, but then literally a few hours later they surprise-visit my house in person and say, "Thanks for the gift!" If they were going to show up in person anyways, why did I spend all that money shipping it to them when they could have just picked it up in person for free? Again, the characters obviously don't have the foresight to know that was going to happen, but the writers sure did.

Because you had no way of knowing that your friend was going to suddenly show up on your doorstep, that's why you shipped it to him/her. Similarly, how was Hook supposed to know that Emma would go to Neverland to rescue him, so he could simply give her the wand himself instead of sending it to her via Shadow Express?

[Chaos Theory]

I am assuming this is the last season because if it is I am giving it a lot of rope.  There are plenty of circular storytelling that I like but I think tends to annoy other people because it isn't really real world logic but then I don't need it to be.  That is if this is the final season.  If it not then I have no idea what the hell is going on and I am completely and utterly lost.

[Last Time Lord]

So, this was the first episode I actually got around to watching in months. 

My main takeaway was Belle's baby got Connor'd by The Black Fairy, though Gideon doesn't seem to be nearly as much fun as Connor was, but Black Fairy is much more fun than Holtz ever was. 

I liked this. Want to catch up on what I missed. 

Also, Black Fairy's actresses looks so familiar to me, but I just cannot place her. 

[Sabs]

17 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

Also, Black Fairy's actresses looks so familiar to me, but I just cannot place her. 

Warehouse 13? (Helena Wells...?)  That's where I know her from.

[Last Time Lord]

3 minutes ago, Sabs said:

Warehouse 13? (Helena Wells...?)  That's where I know her from.

I never really watched much of Warehouse 13, but that may have been it. 

Thanks. 

[Curio]

26 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Because you had no way of knowing that your friend was going to suddenly show up on your doorstep, that's why you shipped it to him/her. Similarly, how was Hook supposed to know that Emma would go to Neverland to rescue him, so he could simply give her the wand himself instead of sending it to her via Shadow Express?

 

Yes, that's why I said, "the characters obviously don't have the foresight to know that was going to happen." I'm coming at it from the writer's viewpoint on a meta level, not a character level. Hook didn't have the foresight to know Emma was going to come to Neverland a few hours after sending her the wand, but the writer of the episode knew it when they were plotting out the scenes. It seems like they could have done something else instead of having Hook's shadow deliver an item to Emma that wasn't even used in the episode, and on top of that, the item could have easily been retrieved by Emma by just rescuing Hook anyways. Have Hook's shadow deliver something else to Emma in the middle of the episode, and then at the end of the episode, have Tiger Lily give Hook and Emma the wand after she knows she can trust them. 

8 hours ago, OnceUponAJen said:

I think the shadow was used to scare Emma and make Snow realize that she wanted to sacrifice the pixie dust flower so that Emma and Hook could be reunited.

Shouldn't the Charmings have been assuming Hook was in trouble from the get-go? Why did it take seeing his shadow to turn the tables? And ripping out a shadow is specific to Neverland, so why were they asking where Hook was? And why did it take seeing Hook's hook to realize he was in danger? Shouldn't Emma have assumed from Hook's shell phone message that there was a good chance he was in danger just by the very fact Gideon banished him? 

[KateJones]

She was on Ringer with SMG, too. 

[sharky]

First, I really hope that Tiger Lily snuck through that portal, maybe ended up outside Snowing's apartment door and escaped in Storybrooke or something. Again, best part of this episode was the Hook adventure even if it was all rushed and got him home quick. And as others have mentioned, imagine if Emma was there with him. Ugh, would've been so good!

I actually didn't mind the Snowing decision to leave Emma alone and let her be the Savior. It at least all seemed in character for both Charming and Snow, especially Snow. She had to choose between being with Emma or making sure the entire town that had stood by them for all those years would be happy. She put her own happiness aside for everyone in the town, which seems like a Snow thing to do. Plus, they found Emma in a nice looking place, not on the streets, where she actually was half the time.

Of course, it would've been better if we didn't even have that stupid retcon of a flashback. I feel like a broken record, but DROP THE FLASHBACKS! Seriously, if this show gets a reboot next season, it better be without flashbacks. They're obviously scraping the bottom of the barrel with those things now.

CAPTAIN SWAN PROPOSAL! I'm here for it, the second one was much much much better than the first, but it felt rushed. I wonder if this reboot they keep talking about caused them to adjust the back half of this season and rush things to get everything in before starting over.

[Primetimer]

Let's hope it doesn't put you into a coma!

View the full article

[scenicbyway]

Was it ironic the Emma rescued Captain Hook from Neverland wearing a Peter Pan collared blouse?

[adam807]

Any time we revisit cursed Storybrooke I'm reminded of my very first question about the show: How was this a good deal for Regina? Why did it make her happy? She seems as miserable as anyone else. And since they don't know they're cursed, they don't even know what they're missing. I guess she take pleasure in seeing them unhappy but they're not even really the same people. And she doesn't get her magic or her fun clothes! It's always seemed like a terrible plan. 

[asabovesobelow]

It's no secret that I'm not a fan of Captain Swan. But...this was new levels of bad. Emma chose her boyfriend over her parents, potentially dooming her baby brother to a life without his parents, the life she so often laments. "Sorry, little bro, bummer about your childhood, but I want to be with Hook, so best of luck." Hook was in another realm; Snow and David were about to be eternally cursed. Maybe she could have resolved to find him later? And Snow and David, who are supposedly consumed with guilt over leaving Emma, had no problem doing the same thing to Neal, so Emma could reunite with her boyfriend. The whole episode was about the selflessness of Snow and David, and then the Savior does the most selfish thing imaginable.

And then...THEN...they have this epic proposal declaring their undying love for each other while Emma's lifeless, corpse-like parents are ten feet away.  I can't even wrap my head around the insanity.

[Curio]

17 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

The whole episode was about the selflessness of Snow and David, and then the Savior does the most selfish thing imaginable.

I guess it's all about perspective. You could also view Snow and David choosing not to raise their daughter as extremely selfish because they robbed their daughter of that important time together. Emma has been forced to be the selfless Savior and help everyone else in town for so long that it's kind of nice to see her do selfish things for herself once in a while. Because of the actions of her parents in the past, Emma was robbed of the happy childhood she always wanted, so when Emma's happiness is on the line in the present, I don't judge Emma for choosing to save the one person who has always seen her more as Emma and not the Savior. That point was reaffirmed when Hook was talking to Tiger Lily about saving the woman he loves—while Hook only described Emma as his love, Tiger Lily described Emma as The Savior. 

[asabovesobelow]

3 minutes ago, Curio said:

I guess it's all about perspective. You could also view Snow and David choosing not to raise their daughter as extremely selfish because they robbed their daughter of that important time together. Emma has been forced to be the selfless Savior and help everyone else in town for so long that it's kind of nice to see her do selfish things for herself once in a while. Because of the actions of her parents in the past, Emma was robbed of the happy childhood she always wanted, so when Emma's happiness is on the line in the present, I don't judge Emma for choosing to save the one person who has always seen her more as Emma and not the Savior. That point was reaffirmed when Hook was talking to Tiger Lily about saving the woman he loves—while Hook only described Emma as his love, Tiger Lily described Emma as The Savior. 

I 100% do think that Snow and David leaving Emma there was extremely selfish. There is no excuse in the world that justifies leaving her to her own devices at that age. None. Greater good my ass. That's their kid.

And sure, it's nice to see Emma do things for herself. But I think that particular decision was over the top and unwarranted, all so that she could get her boyfriend back. It's lovely that Hook is devoted to her as a person and not just the Savior. I still don't believe that excuses Emma dooming her parents to eternal damnation and her brother to a life without his parents because she wanted to get re-engaged. How would 10 year old Neal react to that? 15 year old? 30 year old? When she knew Hook was out there trying to get back to her, and she could have used one of the many other avenues to realm-hop and find him?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, Last Time Lord said:

I never really watched much of Warehouse 13, but that may have been it. 

Thanks. 

And Defiance; she was Stahma Tarr.

[RadioGirl27]

34 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

Hook was in another realm

Hook was in mortal danger, not just in another realm. If Emma hadn't go to save him, he would be dead. And Emma and Snow, both knew he was in danger and that is why they both made the choice to go save him first.

Anyway, this is the first episode I've seen complete since the show came back from hiatus. The flashback was stupid and it showed, once again, that Snow is a terrible mother. The Neverland part was the best, short as it was. I like Tiger Lily and the Black Fairy, but I couldn't care less even if I tried about Gidiot and Rumple. This second proposal was better than the first one, but it felt rushed and it wasn't very romantic.  

[Kktjones]

10 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

I still don't believe that excuses Emma dooming her parents to eternal damnation and her brother to a life without his parents

I don't think anyone really believed that they would never find a way to wake them up. Before she went to sleep Snow said something like "I know you'll find another way" and it's kind of a running theme that they do always find a way. It's similar to when Emma became the Dark One and she trusted her family to find a way to help her. I also don't think it's fair to put all the blame on Emma for this decision. Snow was very clear about what she wanted Emma to do. From the shadow they knew that Hook was in immediate danger, so Snow told her to find Hook first and then figure out another way to help them. I think some of it had to do with her guilt over not saving Emma when they had the chance all those years ago, but the point remains that it was Snow's wish. This also isn't the first time someone has intentionally gone under a sleeping curse to help someone they love.

[MDKNIGHT]

If Charming and Snow had rescued Emma when she was still a child wouldn't it have been unlikely for her to meet Neal and have his baby?  And wouldn't Snow and Charming therefore know they negated the existence of their grandson Henry?   I would think that would figure in their decision.

[asabovesobelow]

2 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

I don't think anyone really believed that they would never find a way to wake them up. Before she went to sleep Snow said something like "I know you'll find another way" and it's kind of a running theme that they do always find a way. It's similar to when Emma became the Dark One and she trusted her family to find a way to help her. I also don't think it's fair to put all the blame on Emma for this decision. Snow was very clear about what she wanted Emma to do. From the shadow they knew that Hook was in immediate danger, so Snow told her to find Hook first and then figure out another way to help them. I think some of it had to do with her guilt over not saving Emma when they had the chance all those years ago, but the point remains that it was Snow's wish. This also isn't the first time someone has intentionally gone under a sleeping curse to help someone they love.

I'm sure they all believed they would find another way to wake them up - but they didn't know. And that was my point. Snow may have told her to do it, but that doesn't mean that it was the right decision. It was selfish on her part too - what about their other child? Honestly, I just felt like everyone's priorities were completely out of whack in this episode. It left me feeling disappointed with their decisions on nearly every level. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 minute ago, MDKNIGHT said:

If Charming and Snow had rescued Emma when she was still a child wouldn't it have been unlikely for her to meet Neal and have his baby?  And wouldn't Snow and Charming therefore know they negated the existence of their grandson Henry?   I would think that would figure in their decision.

They didn't know that Henry would ever exist when they made the decision.

[Curio]

12 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

It's lovely that Hook is devoted to her as a person and not just the Savior. I still don't believe that excuses Emma dooming her parents to eternal damnation and her brother to a life without his parents because she wanted to get re-engaged. 

In Emma's mind, she wasn't dooming her parents to eternal damnation because she believed there would be another way to wake them. But I guess it's just the Charming Family way to utterly believe a plan is going to work and sticking to it. Snow and Charming didn't think of the consequences of splitting their hearts back in Season 3 and didn't think about their baby and the potential of him not even existing if the heart split didn't work. They also didn't think about warning Emma in NYC first and how this would affect her. They were willing to die and abandon their children just so they could be together again.

8 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

When she knew Hook was out there trying to get back to her, and she could have used one of the many other avenues to realm-hop and find him?

It always seems to come down to the writers choosing to ignore their own canon. Emma could have caught a ride on Hook's shadow back to Neverland instead of using the pixie dust, but the writers conveniently had his shadow disappear instead of flying back. Also, the pixie flowers have never been mentioned before...ever. Why not use one of the many portals to go save Hook and then have their TLK wake up Snow and Charming? Or even easier, why didn't Emma bother trying to TLK her parents?

Basically, in Emma's mind, she truly believed no matter what she'd wake her parents up eventually, so it wasn't as big of an issue to go save Hook in that moment. When Emma sees her parents asleep on their comfy bed and compares it to whatever situation Hook might be in, she has to choose who's more in danger in that exact moment. Not knowing anything about Hook's situation except for the fact that he had to rip his shadow out and take out his hook, his situation was probably more dire in that moment than Snowing's curse. If Hook's shadow delivered a message that said, "Everything's fine! Be home soon. XOXO," Emma would probably have used the dust on her parents instead. But if Emma used the dust on her parents and Hook ended up dying because she didn't choose to save him, then Emma again comes off selfish for choosing to save her parents who were in a sleeping curse instead of choosing to save her True Love who was actually on the brink of death. It's a no-win situation.