S34.E05: Dirty Deed

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I'm with you. I didn't get it. Some people like coffee, but not sugar. Some people may like sugar, but not coffee. If the team wins a food item, then anyone on the team has the right to eat any of those said food items. What if they brought back jars of PB and J? And someone just wanted the PB? Or just the jelly? Simma down, dude. 

 

Right. I think her throwing the bag was like, "Boom! Take that, Jeff". Michaela has mouthed off to Jeff several times during challenges. Not everyone takes his commentary nicely. 

Didn't she tell Jeff to shut up last season, when she was doing the labyrinth challenge with Hannah, and he said "Michaela barking orders at Hannah!".  

[simplyme]

This is all theory on my part, but here goes.

One of the things that is very different between last season and this season is general age of the contestants and how well they know each other. No one knew each other pre-show. After the first few votes, Michaela felt close to a number of the other Millennials and trusted them. They viewed her as an integral part of a team. That's why it was a shock to her to be voted out, and one reason why she disliked Figgy so much: Figgy didn't have any interest in playing a team game with Michaela.

She doesn't have that this time. Michaela is one of two Survivors with no real pre-show relationships to help (or harm) her. She's now on a tribe where Aubry is the closest person to her age-wise, but Sandra probably comes the closest to understanding her mentality. She isn't feeling valued at all. And Michaela's default reaction to not feeling valued is to become a bigger, louder pain in the rear to those she thinks are disrespecting her. After all, why be nice to people who don't like her? She knows what she's worth, and if they can't see it, well, that's their problem in her mind. 

And I would guess that's why Varner and Aubry see her as an attitude problem. She's feeling ignored and not valued by them (and JT, but given his women issues that was always going to happen imo) and has yet to figure out a better way to flip the script.

[Rachel RSL]

15 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Drinking the "tea" at Tribal was J.T.'s just desserts and it was hysterical.  That already goes down in history as an all-time best moment. 

The best part of that was when they showed JT, he was just looking down at Michaela with this condescending smile and shaking his head like "Look at this fool." *snerk* Chump!

 

15 hours ago, blackwing said:

 It's not "beastly" to dig in sand.

I don't know, digging in sand almost literally killed Caleb last time.

[MisterBluxom]

Sorry. *my mistake*

Edited March 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[green]

6 hours ago, needschocolate said:

I didn't think there was any temper shown.  I saw it more like a football player slamming the ball after making a touchdown.  ...

Exactly.  Or doing a bat flip in baseball.  Or a showy slam dunk in basketball.  It is what athletes do.  Nothing wrong with it at all.

[Rachel RSL]

Even if Sandra gets voted out next, she will still have won more times than anyone else so, yep, still the Queen!

Edited because the post I was responding to was erased so now this just looks like a random comment. Oh well, long live the Queen!

Edited March 31, 2017 by Rachel RSL

[MisterBluxom]

5 hours ago, needschocolate said:

I didn't think there was any temper shown.  I saw it more like a football player slamming the ball after making a touchdown.  Still, it was a dumb thing to do in the beginning of a challenge, don't make your tribemates take extra time to pick up the bag.  

I agree with others that Michaela isn't as fun to watch this time.  I think enjoyed her the first time because of two things that seem to be lacking this time around - (1) she gave funny talking heads, (2) she was amazing at challenges.  She is probably still amazing, but she hasn't had as much chance of showing it.  Also, the first time around, I didn't realize she had a quick temper until a little way into the game, but now I know about it, so it clouds my interpretation of her comments.  

I am pretty sure that it was the first bag, because I remember watching to see if she would to it again the second time, and she didn't.

I think the difference may be due to the fact that she now knows she has no chance of winning the game.

Edited March 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

The best part of that was when they showed JT, he was just looking down at Michaela with this condescending smile and shaking his head like "Look at this fool." *snerk* Chump!

 

I don't know, digging in sand almost literally killed Caleb last time.

Good point about Caleb and the sand.  Also, Cirie took a very, long time digging up her tribe's bags.  Michaela gained a lot of time for her tribe with her digging.  

Still, I could get how she would see it as a less important task and waste of her athletic ability.  

[MisterBluxom]

4 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Even if Sandra gets voted out next, she will still have won more times than anyone else so, yep, still the Queen!

I would be perfectly OK with that.

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, MissBluxom said:

I think the difference is due to the fact that she knows she has no chance of winning this time.

I don't think she has no chance of winning and I am quite sure she doesn't think she has no chance.  I think she has had some funny talking heads this time.  I think she has spent more time in THs venting and saying things she would have said to the whole tribe, last season.  

I think the difference with the challenges is that she has been on tribes with multiple strong men on them, giving her less chance to shine in athletic tasks.  They also haven't had many challenges that required several tribe members to do athletic tasks or any ones that required a certain number of females.  

[JudyObscure]

28 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I think the difference may be due to the fact that she now knows she has no chance of winning the game.

Is that you, Spencer? ;)

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

That is the greatest "Bye Felicia" of all time.  I bow down before our new overgoddess.

 I could watch this, non-stop, for hours!

[ghoulina]

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Didn't she tell Jeff to shut up last season, when she was doing the labyrinth challenge with Hannah, and he said "Michaela barking orders at Hannah!".  

I think she did! Which is part of the reason I just can't hate Michaela, even if I don't love every thing she does. Jeff annoys ME during challenges, so I don't blame them one bit when they snap at him. 

 

3 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I don't know, digging in sand almost literally killed Caleb last time.

I was gonna say.....I get nervous every time they dig in the sand now. I want to know how hot it is out there, where the water is, how long is this going to take, etc. 

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Is that you, Spencer? ;)

Hey now, she didn't say "zero" chance. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by ghoulina

[KimberStormer]

1 hour ago, simplyme said:

 That's why it was a shock to her to be voted out, and one reason why she disliked Figgy so much: Figgy didn't have any interest in playing a team game with Michaela.

Figgy did play a team game with Michaela.  Michaela didn't want to play a team game with Figgy.  (It's true that, according to Michaela, Figgy didn't talk to her...but that is true, according to Michaela, of literally everyone on the Millenials except Jay and Michelle.)  Michaela came after Figgy unprompted at camp on like day 3.  Figgy cheered her on when she was badass at challenges, Michaela helped another tribe in order to screw Figgy over.  Michaela disliked Figgy because she disliked her, not for any game reason.  Which is fine!  People dislike people!

I love her, and I think she could win in the abstract...but it's hard to see a road to it from here.  She cannot win against Sandra, and Sandra is her only real ally now (I think Varner would cut her if it was convenient.)  OldMana is getting destroyed (this is one reason JT thought they would keep him, for connections with the other tribe, which is a bizarre leap to make) so she doesn't have many options right now.  But!  The tribe swap could help her, possibly.  Hopefully we will see more OldNuku tribe dynamics/divisions and maybe Michaela can sneak in there.  I bet she'd get along with Ozzy.

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

The way she's playing right now, I'D give it to her. And I don't even like Sandra. 

Exactly! If Sandra makes it to the end, she will win imo. Which is why she won't make it to the end. A lot of these people are stupidly allowing Sandra to continue on right now, but I'm pretty sure enough of them aren't dumb enough to let her get much farther. (Further? I never know what word to use!) But I sure hope they are because I really want Sandra to win again.

Edited March 31, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[DaisyFields500]

I enjoyed seeing JT go home.  I did not like him telling the other team who his team was gunning for to send home.  I am not a fond of calling oneself the queen, especially when not appointed, but seeing Sandra set him up made me smile.  I don't see Michaele in the image JT tried to create of her.  Getting upset one time, does not make someone crazy. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by DaisyFields500

[cuphead]

Debbie is such a strange woman.

At the Reward Challenge, Haley took the slow and steady approach in getting across the beams.  She took her time in an effort to make sure she wouldn't have to start over again by dropping the ball.  Debbie's approach, however, was to try to get across as fast as possible, but as we saw, that cost her because she kept dropping the ball.  She's re-working what really happened and trying to sell it as her having to hustle because Haley took 10 hours to get across the beams.

Regarding Brad, as they were discussing who should do what, he immediately delegated balance beam to her because she said she had a good sense of balance.  To normal people, her comment would be taken as someone volunteering herself. But Debbie is spun it (after the challange) as Brad making the decision without consulting with the group first.

I believe she's spinning because she's feeling really insecure with her spot on the tribe after screwing up at the Reward Challenge.  It kind of makes sense since Haley did so well, and it's known that Manu wants to keep the tribe strong.  Perhaps this is why she made the comment about giving Haley her clothes after she is gone, and Brad being so far up Haley's ass.  Debbie thinks she is going to get replaced by Haley in the alliance.

I need to say that I believe these are the core reasons for why Debbie wigged out, and I can see why one would wig out in a situation like this, but Debbie took it to another level.  That chick is cray-cray.

 

eta: I loved Brad's bewilderment after Debbie's first outburst before she left for the beach, and his exchange with Sierra.

Brad: Is she...acting?

SIerra: No.  I think she's mad.  I dunno!

*and both continues eating coconut in total confusion*

Edited March 31, 2017 by cuphead

[LanceM]

So according to JT, Debbie was right. It did take Hali a long time.  But that point is moot because apparently it took everyone a long time to do it.  I suppose though that super gymnast Debbie would have just blown everyone else away.

http://my.xfinity.com/blogs/tv/2017/03/31/survivor-castaway-jt-sandras-way-highway/

" I have to say, to Debbie’s point, it was a really hard challenge. It’d take the whole episode to show the whole thing. The bow part was really hard. I was the third person on my tribe to try it. Aubry tried it, then Varner. Maybe Michaela even tried it. And it took me a while to do it. It did take Debbie a long time on the handle part, but it took Hali just as long on the bow. But, the bow, in my opinion was harder. I get where Debbie is coming from, it did take Hali a long time. But, it took all of us a long time. So, it didn’t make Hali look so bad."

[Rachel RSL]

Upon rewatching the episode, seeing JT go on and on about Michaela requesting 7 drops of coffee makes me want to slap him even more. He made it sound like she was some spoiled princess but that scene actually started with Michaela saying: "Oh, they're making coffee? Is there enough for leftovers?" She was asking for 7 drops of coffee left over from the FULL cup of coffee that JT had just made himself. 

Shut up, JT!

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Exactly! If Sandra makes it to the end, she will win imo. Which is why she won't make it to the end. A lot of these people are stupidly allowing Sandra to continue on right now, but I'm pretty sure enough of them aren't dumb enough to let her get much farther. (Further? I never know what word to use!) But I sure hope they are because I really want Sandra to win again.

I believe it's further? Because farther is for literal physical distances? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As to the actual game, it will never cease to surprise me how dumb some of these players are, even repeat players. ESPECIALLY repeat players. At first, I didn't think Sandra would get to the end. Now? I don't know. 

25 minutes ago, LanceM said:

 

So according to JT, Debbie was right. It did take Hali a long time.  But that point is moot because apparently it took everyone a long time to do it.  I suppose though that super gymnast Debbie would have just blown everyone else away.

http://my.xfinity.com/blogs/tv/2017/03/31/survivor-castaway-jt-sandras-way-highway/

" I have to say, to Debbie’s point, it was a really hard challenge. It’d take the whole episode to show the whole thing. The bow part was really hard. I was the third person on my tribe to try it. Aubry tried it, then Varner. Maybe Michaela even tried it. And it took me a while to do it. It did take Debbie a long time on the handle part, but it took Hali just as long on the bow. But, the bow, in my opinion was harder. I get where Debbie is coming from, it did take Hali a long time. But, it took all of us a long time. So, it didn’t make Hali look so bad."

 

Thanks for sharing. Good info. But it doesn't make me sympathize with Debbie any more. 

So it took Hali a long time AND Debbie a long time? So then how is losing solely Hali's fault? I could see if Hali took forever and then Debbie whizzed right through her section, but they were still so far behind it didn't matter - but that's not what happened. Debbie struggled like hell too. And, regardless of how long it took Hali, didn't someone upthread post that all tribes were about even when it came to the part Debbie did? I just still really don't get her grievance.

And it's not like everyone came down hard on her at the end. Hali even cheered for her for finishing. The others were quiet; they weren't yelling at her or anything. So it's not like she NEEDED to get defensive because people were blaming her.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

(I think Varner would cut her if it was convenient.)  

He did say he wished he could vote them both off-- Michaela and JT.  

I read somewhere here Jeff said the edit of that challenge was how it went out there-- Debbie took a long time.  If you listen to his commentary, unless he overdubbed it, he basically blamed her for their loss.  That would seem odd if she flew across like she claimed.  

I think she just needed something to make a scene over and made that up.  If you're going to put on the crazy clown hat and play court jester, why not go all the way and even make up an impetus.  

[HurricaneVal]

I also kind of took the "seven drops of coffee in a teaspoon of sugar" to be a sarcastic riff on now some people have very long, very complicated, and very specific Starbucks orders. 

[SlackerInc]

14 hours ago, absolutqt said:

AHAHAHAHAHA!  Ok, so now it becomes clear.  I'm usually quite satisfied being social media-free but sometimes stuff goes right over my head.  Thanks for asking, SlackerInc.  And thanks to cooksdelight for the illumination and laugh!

 

13 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Yes, thanks!, I'm not on Facebook either.

I am on Facebook, but I've never seen anything like that.  I guess it really depends on who your peeps are.  (And I then had to Google "edges" after reading cooksdelight's memes.  I guess I'm ready to be set adrift on the ice floe...)

8 hours ago, Eolivet said:

She was voted out for showing her brain (I remember the word "intelligent" being used, like 17 times, to the point where it started to feel like doth protesting too much -- we get it, you're not racists, mmkay?).

I got the same vibe from this as you did, and was rolling my eyes.  But for that reason, I don't think we can really be sure why Michaela was voted out, since everyone seemed to be dressing their reasoning up in an excuse.

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

A lot of these people are stupidly allowing Sandra to continue on right now, but I'm pretty sure enough of them aren't dumb enough to let her get much farther. (Further? I never know what word to use!)

 

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

I believe it's further? Because farther is for literal physical distances? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct!  (Anyone else thinking of Good Will Hunting?)

[riverheightsnancy]

On 3/30/2017 at 10:28 AM, brilliantbreakfast said:

That was epic.  Sandra had better watch out, there's a new queen in town.

Yeah, Cirie.  I love Sandra, but I hope her gameplay, keeps all eyes off of Cirie, one of the most dangerous social players in this game. 

[Lamb18]

I'm rewatching and we're at the Reward challenge.  There's the amazing peanut butter and jelly.  Debbie has a really good sense of balance, did you know? And Brad dictatorially said in response, "OK, then you balance." Just call him Mussolini.  Here comes slowpoke Hali. She just dropped her ball of the beam. And Michaela just slammed that bag of balls. Here comes slowpoke Hali again, just call her Tortoise.  Ooh, the Tortoise just made it across the first beam and now she's done the second beam. It only took 24 hours.

Oh here comes the speed demon, Debbie. She dropped her ball twice now. Oops, fell again. But did you know that when they broadcast the episode they showed Debbie in slow motion? Like playing at 45 rpm record at 33? Michaela handed the second bag, I think, to Aubry. Oops, Debbie dropped again. No what they're actually doing is replaying the same dropped ball over and over again just to make her look bad.  Tuvua just won, Sandra's working on the slide puzzle. Brad says, "She was adamant about doing it, wasn't she?" Challenge is over.

My conclusion: Debbie is really right and it's all a conspiracy. She ran over that beam like the Road Runner. They edited the episode to make Debbie look really slow while everyone was passing her up, but actually she was ahead and whoever was supposed to be doing the slide puzzle (which they never showed) was incredibly slow and so the other two tribes passed them up.

This is called watching the episode in Debbie's alternative universe.

It's funny when Sarah tells Troyzan, "I'm looking for an idol, don't ever turn  your back on me." Troyzan is sure, OK.

[Lamb18]

Oh, gosh, at sugar-gate, Varner saying to J. T. about the sugar, "Where did it go?"

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Is that you, Spencer? ;)

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

I am on Facebook, but I've never seen anything like that.  I guess it really depends on who your peeps are.  (And I then had to Google "edges" after reading cooksdelight's memes.  I guess I'm ready to be set adrift on the ice floe...)

On Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, (and all the other ones the kids use that I don't know about) memes are always circulating.  It's all social media, not just Facebook.  I'm no meme historian, but the Kermit sipping tea meme is one of those major, original memes that helped begin all of the memes.  Now there's a new meme every second.  But yeah, that's one of the big originals, so for any of us who are crazy on social media, as soon as Michaela started pulling out the canteen and unscrewing the cap?  I SCREAMED IN ABSOLUTE DELIGHT!  I started snapping pictures.  I knew shit was about to be so good!  Before that moment I was definitely 50/50 on whether she would be voted out.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Nashville]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Is that you, Spencer? ;)

Hey, give Spencer some credit - both he and his brother were gutless, but Spencer really OWNED that shit.  Eventually.  ;>

Edited April 1, 2017 by Nashville

[Vyk]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Hey, give Spencer some credit - both he and his brother were gutless, but Spencer really OWNED that shit.  Eventually.  ;>

His brother?  Now I'm lost, since I don't think we ever met him.

[Gweilo]

And the overstatement award for this episode goes to JT for his comment during coffee-gate:

"Nobody wants to babysit out here when we're tryin' to survive."

DUDE. You have a coffee bar at your camp.

[Nashville]

47 minutes ago, Vyk said:

His brother?  Now I'm lost, since I don't think we ever met him.

Never mind; got my threads mixed up and thought I was on The Walking Dead forum.  Wrong Spencer.  :D

Edited April 1, 2017 by Nashville
Whoops!

[Vyk]

2 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Suuuurrrre you do.  Aiden.  Who found out the hard way that shooting a grenade-covered zombie can really fuck up your weekend plans.

Oh, that Spencer's brother.  I thought you meant Bledsoe's brother.:-P

[jd31]

Debbie = cognitive dissonance.  I guess it can be difficult to face the truth and own up to your failures and shortcomings.  I can only hope that at some point she reveal that one of her many occupations is actress and this was all a put-on.  If not, she needs help.  She reminds me a lot more of Brandon than Phillip.

That said, I think Debbie is only the second most self-impressed person out there.   I sooo want to like Michaela, but every single word she says and action she takes leads me to believe that she thinks she is the most awesomest person ever to walk the earth .  She was not the architect of JT's demise, but merely the beneficiary of Queen Sandra's decision.  She's still in the game because Sandra and Jeff believe that she will be easy to manipulate.

[Bryce Lynch]

14 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Figgy did play a team game with Michaela.  Michaela didn't want to play a team game with Figgy.  (It's true that, according to Michaela, Figgy didn't talk to her...but that is true, according to Michaela, of literally everyone on the Millenials except Jay and Michelle.)  Michaela came after Figgy unprompted at camp on like day 3.  Figgy cheered her on when she was badass at challenges, Michaela helped another tribe in order to screw Figgy over.  Michaela disliked Figgy because she disliked her, not for any game reason.  Which is fine!  People dislike people!

I love her, and I think she could win in the abstract...but it's hard to see a road to it from here.  She cannot win against Sandra, and Sandra is her only real ally now (I think Varner would cut her if it was convenient.)  OldMana is getting destroyed (this is one reason JT thought they would keep him, for connections with the other tribe, which is a bizarre leap to make) so she doesn't have many options right now.  But!  The tribe swap could help her, possibly.  Hopefully we will see more OldNuku tribe dynamics/divisions and maybe Michaela can sneak in there.  I bet she'd get along with Ozzy.

Michaela wislely wanted to break up "Figtayls", before Taylor and Figgy took control of the tribe.

Despite being disgusted by Figgy and Taylor carrying on in camp, and her problems with Figgy, Michaela played a team game and went along with voting out Mari first 

[cooksdelight]

11 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I read somewhere here Jeff said the edit of that challenge was how it went out there-- Debbie took a long time.  If you listen to his commentary, unless he overdubbed it, he basically blamed her for their loss.  That would seem odd if she flew across like she claimed

That's just how Debbie is, she imagines she's done all kinds of things. Rocket scientist, police officer, runway model.... the list is long. She's been remarkably silent on social media since this episode aired, and wouldn't you? LOL

[susannot]

Jeff's commentary during the challenge--"Debbie fails AGAIN!!-- had to hurt.

[simplyme]

On rewatch, I noticed that the bag that Michaela throws is thrown hard at JT's feet. The second one she hands to Aubry. 

So I think that was part of the JT-Michaela feud, which clearly predated SugarGate. I'd guess she was (fairly or not) ticked off by him during the strategizing session. The editing would have you believe she glared daggers at him every time he dropped the ball and had to restart.

One other note: I am watching with SimplyMom, who was a Survivor newbie during Millennials vs Gen X so the only Survivors she knows are Zeke and Michaela. Her first exposure to JT was this.  As JT leaked Sierra's name to Brad, my mother watched in confusion. "He's an idiot," she said. As he called Michaela ignorant and honey bun, she muttered he was a jerk. And as JT got his torch snuffed, she turned and said, "That was really satisfying."

[MisterBluxom]

16 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Thanks for sharing. Good info. But it doesn't make me sympathize with Debbie any more. 

So it took Hali a long time AND Debbie a long time? So then how is losing solely Hali's fault? I could see if Hali took forever and then Debbie whizzed right through her section, but they were still so far behind it didn't matter - but that's not what happened. Debbie struggled like hell too. And, regardless of how long it took Hali, didn't someone upthread post that all tribes were about even when it came to the part Debbie did? I just still really don't get her grievance.

And it's not like everyone came down hard on her at the end. Hali even cheered for her for finishing. The others were quiet; they weren't yelling at her or anything. So it's not like she NEEDED to get defensive because people were blaming her.

I found the following from a web page about Heinz Kohut (1913-1981):  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Kohut

Kohut was was a psychoanalyst best known for his development of self-psychology, an influential school of thought within psychodynamic/psychoanalytic theory which helped transform the modern practice of analytic and dynamic treatment approaches. When it comes to having a false or expansive sense of self - call it a "grandiose sense of self", I would guess that term might just fit Debbie to a T. Do you remember her interviews from last season in which she talked about how talented and skilled she was?  How many different jobs she has had and how many different skills she had mastered?  At first, I got the feeling that she was so wonderful that it would be impossible for her to lose the game. She seemed to me to be all set to win the million dollars. I couldn't see how she could possibly lose. But then, someone else tried to get a word in edgewise and things began to become very clear. She's a bit of a strange bird. Isn't she?  At least, it sure does seem like that to me.  She has had about 20 different jobs in the past 20 years.  I don't remember the exact numbers. But I do remember feeling very surprised by that. If you watched any of the interviews she gave last season, it seems as if she fits right into that category diagnosed by Kohu.  It's all very strange and it took me a long, long time to read it and understand most of it.  I'm not sure that I really do understand it.

That field seems as if it was custom tailored for Debbie. Talking about a sense of "grandiose self" and the preservation of a "false, expansive sense of self"? wouldn't that seem to fit her to a "T"?  I decided the article was too long to quote the whole thing. I forsaw many people posting, "TL;DNR" (Too Long - Did Not Read). However, if you're interested, you can get a good sense of what it's about just by watching Debbie and thinking about what makes her tick. Ever since she first appeared last season, I found myself scratching my head and wondering "what the Heck makes Debbie tick?"?

Kohut argued that when the child's ambitions and exhibitionistic strivings were chronically frustrated, arrests in the grandiose self led to the preservation of a false, expansive sense of self that could manifest outwardly in the visible grandiosity of the frank narcissist, or remain hidden from view, unless discovered in a narcissistic therapeutic transference (or selfobject transference) that would expose these primitive grandiose fantasies and strivings. Kohut termed this form of transference a mirror transference. In this transference, the strivings of the grandiose self are mobilized and the patient attempts to use the therapist to gratify these strivings.

On that web page, it says that his mother's relationship with her son can be described as "narcissistic enmeshment." That really blows my mind because he died in 1981 which means his mother likely dies around 1950 and I can't imagine who would have diagnosed this famous psychoanalyst's relationship with his mother and kept a record of it way back then. It just doesn't make sense to me because although Kohut was fairly well known, he was not very famous, after all.

In any case, Debbie was very clear and adamant that she was skilled in gymnastics, so they let her go for it. But then, she completely blew it.  As soon as she said that, I had a premonition that there was a reason why the editor decided to show that clip. It wasn't exactly a "premonition". But the editor usually shows these things when someone gets adamant about doing something and then badly blows it. For many people, it's just good entertaining TV. Of course, critics of "Reality TV" would knock that and would say it could very well do some harm to Debbie's psyche.   I don't know about that. Many other people would disagree saying that she is such a lunatic, she would never be able to realize that someone was actually making fun of her. I get the idea that Debbie thinks she is just the greatest woman who ever landed on this planet and that almost everyone looks up to her and thinks she is just a Super woman. I dunno. I'd like to hear what some other people think about that.  Would you call Debbie a "wonder woman" or a lunatic?

 

It seems very clear that Debbie just has a warped sense of what level skills she has and I'm wondering why other people who know her irl have  not posted anything about her conduct from rl situations.

Edited April 1, 2017 by MissBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, MissBluxom said:

Sorry. I don't understand how I wound up quoting myself. It certainly was not intentional.

 

I wrote a post about this but it seems to have disappeared. I'm afraid that I might have clicked the wrong button and wound up quoting my own post instead of posting the remarks I wanted to make.

I'm sorry. I have no idea how that happened.

Edited April 1, 2017 by MissBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

21 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Didn't she tell Jeff to shut up last season, when she was doing the labyrinth challenge with Hannah, and he said "Michaela barking orders at Hannah!".  

I don't really like Michaela all that much. But when Jeff said that, I really felt badly for her. I don't know if Probst realized the full extent of the meaning behind his using that word. But I can't imagine any woman who would not be seriously offended by a man using that word to describe her conduct.  The reason is because it put her in the same kind of category as a dog.  Dogs are the only creatures that I know of who bark.  I don't know of any other creatures that are described that way.  AFAICT, there is just no excuse for Probst to talk that way about any female contestant.  I wouldn't have been surprised had she stepped up and slapped his face. I think many women would have done that and I wouldn't blame her one tiny bit for doing that.

IMHO, it's actually worse than some random man saying that to some random woman.  She is competing  in a contest for a million dollars and saying that to her is bound to throw her off her game. I wouldn't be surprised if some lawyer had contacted her and offered their services for free to sue his *blank*. I think he would deserve that. What a #*)#^-ty  $*)$ jerk he is!   The more I think about it, the more angry I become. I've always disliked something about Probst but never have been able to get too specific about what it is. I know he often behaves like a real jerk - especially to women and I don't appreciate that -  not one bit!

Edited April 1, 2017 by MissBluxom

[AZChristian]

55 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

It seems very clear that Debbie just has a warped sense of what level skills she has and I'm wondering why other people who know her irl have  not posted anything about her conduct from rl situations.

Oh, like pleading guilty to a felony (falsifying water tests)????

[simplyme]

Well, yes, the word bark is associated with the sound dogs make, but "barking orders" is a well-known phrase. Actually, I'll just quote http://www.word-detective.com/2010/03/bark/

The sort of “bark” that dogs (and certain other animals, such as foxes) make, what the Oxford English Dictionary defines as “to utter a sharp explosive cry,” is, as you might expect, a very old word, derived from the Old English word “beorcan.”  Many etymologists believe that the origin of “bark” lies in an ancient modification of the verb “to break,” conveying the sense of a sharp, sudden sound evocative of something being violently broken.  We also use “bark” in a figurative sense to mean “to speak forcefully and harshly,” as a drill sergeant might “bark” orders.

In other words, Jeff was equating Michaela with a drill sergeant type, not a dog.

[MisterBluxom]

On 2017-03-30 at 6:47 AM, ferretrick said:

 

1)  She bragged about her balance skills and Brad was like "Great!" and assigned her the 2nd balance beam position, the ANCHOR position.  Yet she says Brad is a dictator who doesn't treat her with respect.

I would guess that in order to understand, you need to try to put yourself into Debbie's shoes and see how things appear from her point of view.

My guess would be that her idea of people respecting her would be for them to acknowledge some of the things she has said about all the jobs she has had an all the skills she has mastered. More than that, I would guess she expects people to say some nice things to her about how much they admire her for all of her achievements. I makes no difference if her achievments are real or imaginary. I think the audience knows they are like imaginary. However, she thinks they are real and that is what counts to Debbie.

[MisterBluxom]

8 minutes ago, simplyme said:

Well, yes, the word bark is associated with the sound dogs make, but "barking orders" is a well-known phrase. Actually, I'll just quote http://www.word-detective.com/2010/03/bark/

The sort of “bark” that dogs (and certain other animals, such as foxes) make, what the Oxford English Dictionary defines as “to utter a sharp explosive cry,” is, as you might expect, a very old word, derived from the Old English word “beorcan.”  Many etymologists believe that the origin of “bark” lies in an ancient modification of the verb “to break,” conveying the sense of a sharp, sudden sound evocative of something being violently broken.  We also use “bark” in a figurative sense to mean “to speak forcefully and harshly,” as a drill sergeant might “bark” orders.

In other words, Jeff was equating Michaela with a drill sergeant type, not a dog.

You may be right. But I would guess that Michaela didn't feel that way about it. Otherwise she would never have replied to Jeff with so much vitriol. I know that I didn't feel that way about it. But I suppose that I could be wrong. No offense intended.

[ghoulina]

29 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

You may be right. But I would guess that Michaela didn't feel that way about it. Otherwise she would never have replied to Jeff with so much vitriol. I know that I didn't feel that way about it. But I suppose that I could be wrong. No offense intended.

I don't think she had to perceive a "dog" comparison to get irritated at Jeff. I think she just generally does not care for his style of commentary. She's expressed before that she can concentrate better without all the noise. He does have a way of heckling the contestants. 

[303420]

Ooh, I'm late to the party. But as Sandra's biggest Fandra I have shit to say re: the Queen surviving another TC.

On 3/29/2017 at 8:59 PM, North of Eden said:

Still I am very cautious about her future in the game just be listening to the way they talked about her and this whole "attitude problem" which we are shown nothing to bear out on screen. And what the hell was up with Sandra trying to throw shade onto her as a sugar thief? For what benefit? To what possible end was that. It made no sense.

It made perfect sense. As others have pointed out, it's not just about gunning for JT, it's about moving the secondary target from herself if her best efforts don't work (cf: Courtney). THIS is what "anyone but me" is, not the oversimplification attached by it to so many.

On 3/29/2017 at 8:59 PM, North of Eden said:

All protesting aside of no "pointing out" by the camera crew it simply defies logic that a castaway can find an idol so quickly with as Tai said....so many trees.

I'm sure it wasn't that quick, but fruitless idol searches are kinda crap TV.

On 3/29/2017 at 9:05 PM, Rachel RSL said:

In case JT played an idol, she wanted to be sure he would write down someone else's name instead of hers.

Yeah, this.

On 3/29/2017 at 11:25 PM, KimberStormer said:

Quick thoughts before reading because long thread!  Sandra: absolutely amazing.  She is really on a whole 'nother level this season.  That is some amazing Survivor she just played.  She has such a light touch, such subtlety.  I feel like it's been a long long time since we've seen that kind of thing, and it's fucking beautiful to watch.

I knew you'd come around, @KimberStormer!

On 3/30/2017 at 5:23 AM, brilliantbreakfast said:

I never got how Sandra was able to win twice.  Now I do.  Sandra and Michaela would be the snarkiest F2 ever.  Make it so.

From your fingers to fate's ears.

On 3/30/2017 at 9:27 AM, ProfCrash said:

I want Sandra to win a third time but I doubt that will happen. She is a really good player who is versatile and fun to watch. I suspect she will be voted out some time soon only because it is clear that she has skills and is using them. These folks are seasoned enough to know better. I think Varner will use Sandra for as long as he needs to and will organize her ouster. Varner could have outed her sugar scheme this week and he didn't. He was the swing vote and seemed to be fine with voting out JT. He spent a fair amount of the tribal council smirking and laughing so I think he has a good read on what is happening out there. I expect him to take out Sandra when she is no longer useful for his game. The key is to do it in a way that Sandra does not see it coming.

The tough part is that it is true that she is super unlikely to save herself through immunity, so there is something to the argument that they can dump her later. But we've seen how she's a genius at shifting the target, so she may not need it. At any rate it will be fabulous to watch. 

21 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think the difference with the challenges is that she has been on tribes with multiple strong men on them, giving her less chance to shine in athletic tasks.  They also haven't had many challenges that required several tribe members to do athletic tasks or any ones that required a certain number of females.  

I've also thought that she might be sandbagging a bit. Not completely, because a competitor like her just can't, but seeing as how she was bounced last season for being a threat, she might've toned down the appearance of same. It would be a smart move.

 

Sandra and Mikaela are my peeps. They're not *mean* exactly, but they don't suffer fools lightly, and they are probably among the smartest out there.

[cooksdelight]

2 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

It seems very clear that Debbie just has a warped sense of what level skills she has and I'm wondering why other people who know her irl have  not posted anything about her conduct from rl situations.

Maybe they are afraid of having their heads cut off with a machete, or something along those lines.

[jumper sage]

JT screwing up and NOT EVEN BRINGING THE IDOL AFTER PRODUCTION HANDED HIM ONE was awesome.  You just know that production practically tosses an idol in their path or at the very least start pointing the camera and the contestant just follows where it's pointing to.

Good season!

[Drogo]

Vacation this week so Khaleesi and I just caught up.  Poor JT. 

JT finds an idol immediately after announcing he needs an idol:  Nice! Now when you get to the finale make sure you say "I need a million dollars."

Reward challenge: Mmm, cookies and 104 degree milk.

Troyzan instructs Ozzy on the balance beam: "Take your time, just take the lead"...? That's some great advice. And also, like, don't worry about it but WORRY ABOUT IT. 

Sarah playing this game like a criminal: Watch Sarah stab Troyzan with that wood real quick.

JT's departure: That idol's going to look great on LetGo.