S07.E17: From Dogs To Diamonds

[notnowimbusy]

Erika wants attention, but she wants it on her own terms.  She sure goes to alot of trouble to be noticed (glam squad - look book - Next Level), but when she edges towards being human and not a character, she gets offended by anyone's actions towards her.   It's always up to HER to decide who will be her friend, who deserves to be her friend, and to criticize those who try to be her friend - and she feels intruded upon.  She wants to dress up in her costumes, have everyone ooooh and ahhhh, sit with her cold stare and be admired. 

Maybe, she told her ex she wanted to divorce, leave NY and move to West Coast, and he said he'd fight for custody.  Or she knew her new life would not allow her to take care of her son in the way her ex could.  Hey, it happens.  BUT, you cannot pretend to know what it's like to be a single mom, and all it's struggles when you haven't done it.  That is the height of hypocrisy and the height of arrogance.  Yes, he seemingly turned into a fine you man, but that had little to do with her.   So her meltdown over Eileen's comment I think had more to do with guilt than anger. 

[PhilMarlowe2]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

It is not as if Erika has been shy about getting buck naked on camera-how are people suppose to read her?  You had her biggest supporter Rinna saying -when you don't wear underwear you don't worry about flashing your puss.

Three people brought up Brandi's tampon incident-Joyce, Rinna and Kyle.  Joyce Season 4 and Kyle and Rinna Season 5. 

If it was so innocent on Erikas part why does she give it so much life?  (Rinna's theory on all things RH).  She is the one calling herself a slut and a whore.  ,

To me, this is apples and oranges. Context and intention matter. I don't care if Erika gets naked on camera or not - Dorit didn't have good intentions with her shit stirring. Erika is not dumb. Of course she's going to have an issue with someone not having good intentions.

No one brought up Brandi's tampon incident until the reunion. During the taping of the show, it was kept off camera because everyone was trying to get along. You'll notice that Kyle didn't go there until she and Brandi were feuding again - which confirms my basic point that the women tend to look out for each other when it comes to what is said on camera; and they wield embarrassing info for when they want to take each other down. Dorit knew what she was doing. Erika can spread her legs for the entire world to see - it doesn't mean that she doesn't have a right to be annoyed/suspicious when someone is trying to stir shit up with her. Dorit was in no way celebrating Erika or going about it in jovial manner. There was an air of shaming and moral righteousness it. "If you're a lady, and you're wearing a short dress, don't you know to cross your legs...?" The implication was clear.

Edited April 1, 2017 by PhilMarlowe2

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

To me, this is apples and oranges. Context and intention matter. I don't care if Erika gets naked on camera or not - Dorit didn't have good intentions with her shit stirring. Erika is not dumb. Of course she's going to have an issue with someone not having good intentions.

No one brought up Brandi's tampon incident until the reunion. During the taping of the show, it was kept off camera. Kyle didn't go there until she and Brandi were feuding again - which confirms my basic point that the women tend to look out for each other when it comes to what is said on camera; and they wield embarrassing info for when they want to take each other down. Dorit knew what she was doing. Erika can spread her legs for the entire world to see - it doesn't mean that she doesn't have a right to be annoyed/suspicious when someone is trying to stir shit up with her.

Apples to Spaceships as they say. Brandi's incident happened off Bravo/production cameras, which is why they all agreed to not speak about it. Erika's accidental flashing happened on Bravos/productions cameras, which means they do talk about it on camera and the producers strongly encourage them to talk about it.

As for Dorit's intentions? I think she thought it would be a good/funny joke/prank to pull, especially if production was encouraging her like Eileen/Rinna were doing and I disagree that she had nefarious intentions. If Erika didn't want to be talked about by her co-stars, she should have worn underwear or kept her legs crossed and never told the others she was commando. Making that announcement alone would get the others/production talking and Erika would have been aware of that.

[KungFuBunny]

6 hours ago, ElDosEquis said:

Shit City and Shuttyville......are they neighboring communities near where that asshole guy ferry lives? flavortown? ; )

I apologize to you and your pussy.

No guy ferry lives on His Own Laurels Lane, that's between Crap Cove and Butt Boulevard. He also lives 2 doors down from Giada (aka G-Rex)

Edited April 1, 2017 by KungFuBunny

[zoeysmom]

13 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

To me, this is apples and oranges. Context and intention matter. I don't care if Erika gets naked on camera or not - Dorit didn't have good intentions with her shit stirring. Erika is not dumb. Of course she's going to have an issue with someone not having good intentions.

No one brought up Brandi's tampon incident until the reunion. During the taping of the show, it was kept off camera. Kyle didn't go there until she and Brandi were feuding again - which confirms my basic point that the women tend to look out for each other when it comes to what is said on camera; and they wield embarrassing info for when they want to take each other down. Dorit knew what she was doing. Erika can spread her legs for the entire world to see - it doesn't mean that she doesn't have a right to be annoyed/suspicious when someone is trying to stir shit up with her. Dorit was in no way celebrating Erika or going about it in jovial manner. There was an air of shaming and moral righteousness it. "If you're a lady, and you're wearing a short dress, don't you know to cross your legs...?" The implication was clear.

I would agree-it was judgmental. I didn't get why Dorit needed the intro about one crossing their legs, instead of just saying-"hey Erika had her crotch on display-is this a common practice with her?"  Let's face it Dorit and Erika never liked each other.  Erika can claim be guarded and the rest of her BS spiel but bottom line she does give a fuck. 

You know it is funny thing when you keep going after someone like Brandi did with Kyle and Joyce they have their limits. 

[PhilMarlowe2]

Just now, WireWrap said:

Apples to Spaceships as they say. Brandi's incident happened off Bravo/production cameras, which is why they all agreed to not speak about it. Erika's accidental flashing happened on Bravos/productions cameras, which means they do talk about it on camera and the producers strongly encourage them to talk about it.

As for Dorit's intentions? I think she thought it would be a good/funny joke/prank to pull, especially if production was encouraging her like Eileen/Rinna were doing and I disagree that she had nefarious intentions. If Erika didn't want to be talked about by her co-stars, she should have worn underwear or kept her legs crossed and never told the others she was commando. Making that announcement alone would get the others/production talking and Erika would have been aware of that.

Well, if we're going to play the production card, then let's play it for everyone. Production encouraged Rinna to ask Dorit about the coke den, production encouraged Erika to confront Dorit about Pantygate, etc. If it applies to one cast member, it applies to them all.

And, for me personally, I don't care if Erika chose to go commando - I don't care if she responded to LVP's bantering about not having underwear - it doesn't mean Dorit does not have to take responsibility for her own behavior - or that Erika doesn't have a right to be mad about it. Even if we assume for a moment that Dorit was just being "funny," many people don't see it that way - so, obviously there was room enough for ambiguity since many, many viewers (and also people on the show) thought Dorit was shit stirring. Erika is allowed to be wary of that. And it's not her fault because she decided not to wear underwear.

[PhilMarlowe2]

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I would agree-it was judgmental. I didn't get why Dorit needed the intro about one crossing their legs, instead of just saying-"hey Erika had her crotch on display-is this a common practice with her?"  Let's face it Dorit and Erika never liked each other.  Erika can claim be guarded and the rest of her BS spiel but bottom line she does give a fuck.

That's the thing, this all probably could have been avoided if Dorit had just been direct and said, "It irked me that you were flashing my husband, unintentional or not." Well, maybe it wouldn't have all been avoided, but I personally would have respected her more for it! All this said, I do have a strange soft spot for Dorit because I like her clothes and I think she is ridiculous in an over-the-top kind of way. I do think she is disingenuous, and I hope she gets called out on it in a real way at some point, but I also think she is good for the show, and I could see being on her side in certain arguments. PK, on the other hand? I think he's vile.

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Well, if we're going to play the production card, then let's play it for everyone. Production encouraged Rinna to ask Dorit about the coke den, production encouraged Erika to confront Dorit about Pantygate, etc. If it applies to one cast member, it applies to them all.

And, for me personally, I don't care if Erika chose to go commando - I don't care if she responded to LVP's bantering about not having underwear - it doesn't mean Dorit does not have to take responsibility for her own behavior - or that Erika doesn't have a right to be mad about it. Even if we assume for a moment that Dorit was just being "funny," many people don't see it that way - so, obviously there was room enough for ambiguity since many, many viewers (and also people on the show) thought Dorit was shit stirring. Erika is allowed to be wary of that. And it's not her fault because she decided not to wear underwear.

We didn't know Dorit, as a newbie there is no way to gage what her motives were other than by her behavior after she apologized and she/Erika high fived each other. AND, that she never brought the subject up again, herself, tells me her intent was not malicious. Every time it was brought back up, it was by Eileen or Rinna, so the shit stirring was done by them, not Dorit.

As for production manipulation, the newbies are more susceptible to it than returning cast members are IMO. That is unless that is their sole hold on their diamond/apple/peach/HW title, say like Rinna and Tamra are. LOL And again, I ask, what did Dorit or PK say that was so offensive about Erika's flash?

[KungFuBunny]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

She's a shit stirrer, but unlike Rinna, I am not tired of her particular method of stirring, so she can stay.  Rinna, on the other hand, must go, for her gawd awful THs if nothing else.

I think both Dorit and Rinna are safe. Rinna in her own words

I know you want to Tony her

But I personally like her for this show.

[zoeysmom]

5 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Well, if we're going to play the production card, then let's play it for everyone. Production encouraged Rinna to ask Dorit about the coke den, production encouraged Erika to confront Dorit about Pantygate, etc. If it applies to one cast member, it applies to them all.

And, for me personally, I don't care if Erika chose to go commando - I don't care if she responded to LVP's bantering about not having underwear - it doesn't mean Dorit does not have to take responsibility for her own behavior - or that Erika doesn't have a right to be mad about it. Even if we assume for a moment that Dorit was just being "funny," many people don't see it that way - so, obviously there was room enough for ambiguity since many, many viewers (and also people on the show) thought Dorit was shit stirring. Erika is allowed to be wary of that. And it's not her fault because she decided not to wear underwear.

Again I would agree.  Dorit is a little too curious and talkative about others.  She sucks at making small talk because it sounds condescending-"I guess I should know this because I am kind of in the business,"  "you are a young girl."  All BS.  

Erika didn't like PK and Dorit, she says impossibly stupid things, as Kathryn pointed out last year, about people earning her friendship and respect-LVP is still in the could happen phase, of earning the friendship badge with Erika. 

To me, I thought the panties were a dumb idea, it was resolved only to have RInna and Eileen keep bringing it up.    Erika did bring it up all on her own with the dumb GLam Squad-so she participated in the continuation as well.

I guess it might be fair to say Dorit is a minor league shit stirrer (compared to Rinna) and Erika provides the ammo. 

[zoeysmom]

14 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

I think both Dorit and Rinna are safe. Rinna in her own words

I know you want to Tony her

But I personally like her for this show.

I think Rinna has stretched her credulity.  I will be interested to see what happens at the Reunion.  Who would ever ask Rinna along on another vacation?  

[pbutler111]

5 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

But how would you feel if you were on a national TV show, and someone you had just met, someone with whom you had no real relationship, took it upon herself to speak about your accidental flash not once, not twice, but three separate times behind your back - on camera, so that it would definitely become part of the show - and then prolonged it further by buying you a pair of panties to point it out for all to see? As others have pointed out, Erika didn't even know it was an issue until Dorit made it one. Erika is responsible for her accidental flashing, but Dorit is the one who gave this life on a hit TV show. It reminds me of Season 4 when Brandi had her tampon incident - none of the women spoke about it on camera because there's a kind of understanding that what gets brought up on camera suddenly has a new life. It's why Kyle was so upset with LVP for bringing up the rumors of Mauricio cheating on camera. Why did Dorit need to have all of these on-camera conversations about such a non-issue? Why would she even need to say something like, "I know you weren't intentionally trying to seduce my husband...?" Dorit was totally stirring shit up. There is no way she didn't know that by talking about it on camera that she was ensuring this would be a topic on the show. I think a lot of people would feel embarrassed in Erika's shoes, and I think a lot of people would really be questioning Dorit's intentions.

I would feel like the newbie catches on quick. These aren't private individuals who were at a private function where this happened only to find that one of them had secretly been filming things and then posted the video to the internet afterward.  They're on a TV show.  All of this played out in front of cameras, visible to all present.  No one forced Erika to, first of all, wear a micro-mini with no underpants, or, even worse, announce the situation to the entire party, in front of cameras.  She made those choices, which makes the entire situation fair game.  She has no right to whine just because one of her teammates took the ball and ran with it.

Edited April 1, 2017 by pbutler111

[AndySmith]

Quote

I have noticed that Erika  likes to flash the colour pink. Her outfit in TH, now her hair is pink for LVP's party. Also the tiaras and crowns. Slight digs toward LVP and her pink/crown branding?

I thought they were supposed to wear something pink for the party? Also, we've seen some of the other women, like Dorit, in pink too.

Quote

She's a shit stirrer, but unlike Rinna, I am not tired of her particular method of stirring, so she can stay.  Rinna, on the other hand, must go, for her gawd awful THs if nothing else.

They are both horrible at shit stirring and need to leave it to pros like LVP.

Quote

Well, if we're going to play the production card, then let's play it for everyone. Production encouraged Rinna to ask Dorit about the coke den, production encouraged Erika to confront Dorit about Pantygate, etc. If it applies to one cast member, it applies to them all.

Amen.

Quote

I would feel like the newbie catches on quick

And they'd probably catch on even quicker with a close friend already on the cast.

[yourmomiseasy]

4 hours ago, notnowimbusy said:

Erika wants attention, but she wants it on her own terms.  She sure goes to alot of trouble to be noticed (glam squad - look book - Next Level), but when she edges towards being human and not a character, she gets offended by anyone's actions towards her.   It's always up to HER to decide who will be her friend, who deserves to be her friend, and to criticize those who try to be her friend - and she feels intruded upon.  She wants to dress up in her costumes, have everyone ooooh and ahhhh, sit with her cold stare and be admired. 

Maybe, she told her ex she wanted to divorce, leave NY and move to West Coast, and he said he'd fight for custody.  Or she knew her new life would not allow her to take care of her son in the way her ex could.  Hey, it happens.  BUT, you cannot pretend to know what it's like to be a single mom, and all it's struggles when you haven't done it.  That is the height of hypocrisy and the height of arrogance.  Yes, he seemingly turned into a fine you man, but that had little to do with her.   So her meltdown over Eileen's comment I think had more to do with guilt than anger. 

Maybe she doesn't understand that just because you are single and a mom doesn't mean you're a single mom.

[PhilMarlowe2]

7 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

I would feel like the newbie catches on quick. These aren't private individuals who were at a private function where this happened only to find that one of them had secretly been filming things and then posted the video to the internet afterward.  They're on a TV show.  All of this played out in front of cameras, visible to all present.  No one forced Erika to, first of all, wear a micro-mini with no underpants, or, even worse, announce the situation to the entire party, in front of cameras.  She made those choices, which makes the entire situation fair game.  She has no right to whine just because one of her teammates took the ball and ran with it.

So because Erika went commando, she has no right to be suspicious/annoyed that a fellow cast member goes out of her way to shame her for it? Sorry, I don't agree. By this logic, none of the housewives have the right to get mad at any other housewives for anything they do on camera. Hey, Kim Richards chose to be on a reality TV show and got repeatedly drunk/high on camera - she has no right to whine because Lisa Rinna took the ball and ran with it. Hey, it's "fair game," right?

[918lux]

10 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

So because Erika went commando, she has no right to be suspicious/annoyed that a fellow cast member goes out of her way to shame her for it? Sorry, I don't agree. By this logic, none of the housewives have the right to get mad at any other housewives for anything they do on camera. Hey, Kim Richards chose to be on a reality TV show and got repeatedly drunk/high on camera - she has no right to whine because Lisa Rinna took the ball and ran with it. Hey, it's "fair game," right?

Erika announced to the group that she didn't have any panties on. She chose to share the info. Kim is an addict- very different from choosing to expose yourself.

[Juliegirlj]

Erika also threw shade at her own mother's parenting style- which is bad enough, but considering she didn't raise her own child, even worse. 

I liked the fact that Erika was different at first, but now, the facade has cracked and all the ugliness underneath is showing. 

[PhilMarlowe2]

6 minutes ago, 918lux said:

Erika announced to the group that she didn't have any panties on. She chose to share the info. Kim is an addict- very different from choosing to expose yourself.

Kim made being an addict in recovery her whole storyline! She stayed on the show when she could have left. Absolutely no difference whatsoever. She chose to stay on the RHoBH for multiple seasons after admitting she was an alcoholic and put herself out there to keep both herself accountable and to also inspire others (her words). Absolutely her choice. Absolutely she "announced" it to the world. Amazing double standard here.

And Erika only "announced" it to the group because LVP kidded her about it and she engaged back with her. Again, I don't see how this justifies or excuses Dorit's passive-aggressive behavior. I don't care what Erika does - Dorit's behavior is her own. Intention matters. You'll notice Erika has had no problem with LVP's little jabs about going commando - because LVP was genuinely good-natured about it - both at the event and later with Kyle. Dorit was judgmental, passive-aggressive and shaming. No, Erika didn't deserve that because she went commando. No, Erika didn't deserve that because she played along with LVP. No, Dorit doesn't have a free pass to be a shit stirrer because of these things. Yes, Erika can get pissed at Dorit's negative intentions. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by PhilMarlowe2

[WireWrap]

12 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

So because Erika went commando, she has no right to be suspicious/annoyed that a fellow cast member goes out of her way to shame her for it? Sorry, I don't agree. By this logic, none of the housewives have the right to get mad at any other housewives for anything they do on camera. Hey, Kim Richards chose to be on a reality TV show and got repeatedly drunk/high on camera - she has no right to whine because Lisa Rinna took the ball and ran with it. Hey, it's "fair game," right?

Correct, Kim has no right to demand that no one talk about her addictions and how it impacts their lives (like being a no show, late to filming or on the receiving end of a drug fueled rage). What she can ask is that they come to her with any questions about her addictions/recovery concerns and for them to not lie about her or her current condition, especially when the other HW has no first hand knowledge about her current status, or to make her their storyline. The same with Erika, Dorit didn't try to shame Erika, she tried (and failed big time) to make a joke about what happened, Dorit didn't make it her storyline nor did she lie about Erika/what happened, say like Rinna did to Kim.

[PhilMarlowe2]

6 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Correct, Kim has no right to demand that no one talk about her addictions and how it impacts their lives (like being a no show, late to filming or on the receiving end of a drug fueled rage). What she can ask is that they come to her with any questions about her addictions/recovery concerns and for them to not lie about her or her current condition, especially when the other HW has no first hand knowledge about her current status, or to make her their storyline. The same with Erika, Dorit didn't try to shame Erika, she tried (and failed big time) to make a joke about what happened, Dorit didn't make it her storyline nor did she lie about Erika/what happened, say like Rinna did to Kim.

Dorit absolutely made it a storyline - that is what happens when you repeatedly bring a topic up in four different scenes with ever single other cast member on the show. Personally, I don't believe the panties were a joke. It felt like a backdoor way to shame Erika because, at the end of the day, Dorit was pissed about PK getting a flash and she simply wouldn't admit it. It's clear you don't see it that way, we will never agree on that.

Edited April 1, 2017 by PhilMarlowe2

[WireWrap]

Just now, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Dorit absolutely made it a storyline - that is what happens when you repeatedly bring a topic up in four different scenes with ever single other cast member on the show. Personally, I don't believe the panties were a joke. It felt like a backdoor way to shame Erika because, at the end of the day, Dorit was pissed about PK getting a flash and she simply wouldn't admit it. It's clear you don't see it that way, we will never agree on that.

Dorit did not bring it up! That was Eileen and Rinna, please go back and see who keeps bringing it up, it isn't Dorit.

[AndySmith]

I think @PhilMarlowe2 means Dorit brought it up with the other cast members after the incident happened, but before Game Night. She brought it up with Rinna and Eileen and also brought it up with Kyle too.

[PhilMarlowe2]

8 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Dorit did not bring it up! That was Eileen and Rinna, please go back and see who keeps bringing it up, it isn't Dorit.

 

6 minutes ago, AndySmith said:

I think @PhilMarlowe2 means Dorit brought it up with the other cast members after the incident happened, but before Game Night. She brought it up with Rinna and Eileen and also brought it up with Kyle too.

Yes. Dorit first talked about it with PK. Then, she brought it up with Eileen and Rinna. Then, again with Kyle. Then she made it an even bigger production with the gifting of the panties. Four different scenes of footage where Dorit pursued this. Who knows what we didn't see? There could have been even more left on the cutting room floor. But, hey, it was just a joke - just like Lisa Rinna is simply coming from a place of care and concern for Kim haha

Edited April 1, 2017 by PhilMarlowe2

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

 

Yes. Dorit first talked about it with PK. Then, she brought it up with Eileen and Rinna. Then, again with Kyle. Then she made it an even bigger production with the gifting of the panties. Four different scenes of footage where Dorit pursued this. Who knows what we didn't see? There could have been even more left on the cutting room floor.

Yes, she discussed it with her husband, most wives would have. Yes, she was a gossip about it with Kyle, Eileen and Rinna but then after she apologized to Erika and they agreed to move on, she didn't bring it up again. Actions after an apology mean more than the words themselves do. Dorit didn't keep talking about it, Erika's good friends kept doing that and in doing that they are the ones that made this into something it was not. Blame Eileen and Rinna for embarrassing Erika, for keeping this whole thing going.

[PhilMarlowe2]

3 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, she discussed it with her husband, most wives would have. Yes, she was a gossip about it with Kyle, Eileen and Rinna but then after she apologized to Erika and they agreed to move on, she didn't bring it up again. Actions after an apology mean more than the words themselves do. Dorit didn't keep talking about it, Erika's good friends kept doing that and in doing that they are the ones that made this into something it was not. Blame Eileen and Rinna for embarrassing Erika, for keeping this whole thing going.

No, I don't blame Eileen and Rinna for it. Dorit is the one who gave it life, Dorit is the one who had a seeming desire to shame Erika for it. I blame Dorit for it. Also, LVP felt no apparent desire to discuss this with Ken (and she clearly noticed), so I am not sure most wives would have done the same. Dorit seemed to have an agenda.

Edited April 1, 2017 by PhilMarlowe2

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

No, I don't blame Eileen and Rinna for it. Dorit is the one who gave it life, Dorit is the one who had a seeming desire to shame Erika for it. I blame Dorit for it. Also, LVP felt no apparent desire to discuss this with Ken (and she clearly noticed), so I am not sure most wives would have done the same. Dorit seemed to have an agenda.

Dorit wasn't the one that pretended to be Erika while spreading her legs claiming she was "shy", that was Eileen! It was Eileen and Rinna that mocked Erika and encouraged Dorit to gift the panties to Erika and to make sure they were present when she did it and it was the 2 of them that kept bringing it up even when Erika told them she/Dorit were fine and had moved past it.

Ken didn't see anything and we don't know if he/Lisa or Kyle/Mauricio talked about it the next morning, as you said those scenes may be on the "cutting room floor" for all we know. And yes, IMO, most wives would have talked about it with their husband.

[howivesforever]

14 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

No, I don't blame Eileen and Rinna for it. Dorit is the one who gave it life, Dorit is the one who had a seeming desire to shame Erika for it. I blame Dorit for it. Also, LVP felt no apparent desire to discuss this with Ken (and she clearly noticed), so I am not sure most wives would have done the same. Dorit seemed to have an agenda.

Eileen and Rinna could have stopped Dorit from gifting the panties to Erica. They encouraged the gift instead of saying they thought it would be insulting to Erica. If my friends encourage someone that barely knows me to do something that would upset me I would take my issue up with said friends. Erica didn't direct her anger to them and told Dorit she wasn't bothered about it. She should have been truthful in those moments and this could have been over a long time ago. We also have no idea what Lisa discussed with Ken because it wasn't shown. Erica wants to be the victim in a situation she created. She chose to not wear underwear and sit with her legs open. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by howivesforever
I think it's also very strange Erica had never discussed this with Tom. Had I been at a party and flashed people at a party I would tell my husband about it the moment I got home.

[PhilMarlowe2]

6 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Dorit wasn't the one that pretended to be Erika while spreading her legs claiming she was "shy", that was Eileen! It was Eileen and Rinna that mocked Erika and encouraged Dorit to gift the panties to Erika and to make sure they were present when she did it and it was the 2 of them that kept bringing it up even when Erika told them she/Dorit were fine and had moved past it.

As I said, intention matters. I don't for one second think Eileen or Rinna intended to shame or humiliate Erika. I do think that was Dorit's intention. Again, we will never agree on this.

[AndySmith]

Quote

I do think that was Dorit's intention

She's shady for sure.

[zoeysmom]

39 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

 

Yes. Dorit first talked about it with PK. Then, she brought it up with Eileen and Rinna. Then, again with Kyle. Then she made it an even bigger production with the gifting of the panties. Four different scenes of footage where Dorit pursued this. Who knows what we didn't see? There could have been even more left on the cutting room floor. But, hey, it was just a joke - just like Lisa Rinna is simply coming from a place of care and concern for Kim haha

After it was laid to rest so to speak, Erika brought it up on camera to Mikey, Eileen brought it up in Malibu, at Camille's and Game Night.  Rinna camped on whenever possible.  Erika brought it up in Hong Kong and finally  Rinna brought it up again in Hong Kong. The only thing I learned from the number of times it was brought up was Dorit was correct when she told Kyle, Erika had unresolved feelings about it.  So Erika has had her fair share of bringing it up again.  The biggest difference between Erika and Kim-is Kim repeatedly asked Rinna to stop talking about her.  Dorit did stop spreading the word, RInna didn't.   

26 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

No, I don't blame Eileen and Rinna for it. Dorit is the one who gave it life, Dorit is the one who had a seeming desire to shame Erika for it. I blame Dorit for it. Also, LVP felt no apparent desire to discuss this with Ken (and she clearly noticed), so I am not sure most wives would have done the same. Dorit seemed to have an agenda.

I believe LVP's Reunion mission is to make the others realize Dorit's initial intention were of a joking nature.  Once Dorit pursued it, presented the panties and Dorit and Erika resolved it, it really became more about trying to keep the issue in the forefront.  

Edited April 1, 2017 by zoeysmom

[howivesforever]

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

After it was laid to rest so to speak, Erika brought it up on camera to Mikey, Eileen brought it up in Malibu, at Camille's and Game Night.  Rinna camped on whenever possible. Finally, Erika brought it up in Hong Kong and finally  Rinna brought it up again in Hong Kong. The only thing I learned from the number of times it was brought up was Dorit was correct when she told Kyle, Erika had unresolved feelings about it.  So Erika has had her fair share of bringing it up again.  The biggest difference between Erika and Kim-is Kim repeatedly asked Rinna to stop talking about her.  Dorit did stop spreading the word, RInna didn't.   

I believe LVP's Reunion mission is to make the others realize Dorit's initial intention were of a joking nature.  Once Dorit pursued it, presented the panties and Dorit and Erika resolved it, it really became more about trying to keep the issue in the forefront.  

I believe the footage will speak for itself. They will show Eileen and Rinna making fun of how Erica was sitting and Dorit stating she wants to give Erica undwear as a cheeky gift. I think it will show Erica's anger as over the top since she kept stating it was fine to Dorit until Hong Kong. Was Dorit really suppose to know how upset Erica was about the whole thing when Erica had never expressed that to her? 

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, howivesforever said:

oI believe the footage will speak for itself. They will show Eileen and Rinna making fun of how Erica was sitting and Dorit stating she wants to give Erica undwear as a cheeky gift. I think it will show Erica's anger as over the top since she kept stating it was fine to Dorit until Hong Kong. Was Dorit really suppose to know how upset Erica was about the whole thing when Erica had never expressed that to her? 

I think Erika was more upset with Dorit because Rinna had pretty much ratted her out as being the person in Mexico to pass on the Rinna dinner conversation and misrepresented what Dorit had said in Mexico.  Erika frustration was increasing as she exchanged words with Dorit.  Erika would say something and Dorit would toss back, "did I say that?" and then there would be the ever loving-that is what you meant, "did not", "did so". 

It probably doesn't work well on a reality shows, but there is a time to throw in the towel when someone attaches intent to another's words and actions and they deny it.  Same goes with crap like earning friendships, being guarded, in real life, if someone said that, short of a co-worker, most people would move on rather than risk rejection.  We saw it this episode blow up in Eden's face.  Eden was in the bosom of the Ericka team while she was comforted by the others.  Poor Eden too dense to realize she really hadn't become any closer to the Erikas.

Edited April 1, 2017 by zoeysmom

[PhilMarlowe2]

18 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

"After it was laid to rest so to speak..."

That's a pretty big clause to gloss over - by the time it was laid to rest, Dorit had done her damage, Erika had been embarrassed. That's why she was pissed. Dorit is the one who gave it life up to that point. I am not saying no one else ever talked about it. I am saying I understand why Erika was upset with Dorit, and, no that just because Erika went commando doesn't mean she should just roll over when someone like Dorit decides to be sketchy toward her. Were there other contributing factors? Sure. But, at the end of the day, Dorit was the only one who seemed to want to embarrass Erika and carried some unconscious or semi-conscious negative intention toward her.

[Jel]

I agree that Erika is entitled to her feelings, I'd have been embarrassed by the gift and the talk too. But feeling a particular way about a situation does not mean her emotional reaction and subsequent actions are reasonable, and facts remain facts.

I didn't like Dorit's "joke" at all, and I think both she and PK were wrong to discuss it, however "sweetly" on camera. But Dorit would have had no joke to make if Erika had chosen to wear something else.  That is the unchanging fact that Erika has never acknowledged. Had she simply said, "Gah, bad fashion choice, what a dumbass, I'm so embarrassed" that may have ended it right then. But instead, she takes the less mature way out and lets it fester (and I'm assuming talks about it with her paid friends, who took her side) until she absolves herself of any responsibility and makes herself a victim.  

She lied to Dorit and said she was "fine" with it, sealing it with a high five (and taking away any opportunity for Dorit to understand she'd really hurt her).  

Erika went in so hard on Dorit on the boat: finally being "honest" by calling her bullshit. She told her can never be friends with her. She humiliated Dorit in a way Dorit never did to her (with back up dancers Eileen and Rinna and Rinna's middle finger) by shaming her (displaying her disapproval with anger and disgust). She refused to accept Dorit's apology, accused Dorit of interfering in her marriage and then insisted that both she and PK call Tom and apologize to him now, too, as the only way to make things right.  She later said enjoyed watching Rinna go in on her.  

On balance, that's just way worse than the dumb, passive aggressive panty gift, especially when she herself could have avoided the whole thing by doing what every other grown woman in the world knows to do when wearing a short dress and just crossed her legs.  I think it's her dishonest, disproportionate reaction that rankles.

If Dorit had been all, "Yeah, fuck you, that panty gift was great, too bad if you were embarrassed" I wouldn't like that either. But that didn't happen, anywhere, except maybe in Erika's mind.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Jel

[PhilMarlowe2]

7 minutes ago, Jel said:

I agree that Erika is entitled to her feelings, I'd have been embarrassed by the gift and the talk too. But feeling a particular way about a situation does not mean her emotional reaction and subsequent actions are reasonable, and facts remain facts.

I didn't like Dorit's "joke" at all, and I think both she and PK were wrong to discuss it, however "sweetly" on camera. But Dorit would have had no joke to make if Erika had chosen to wear something else. 

No argument here. I just can't get down with what seems to be this pervasive idea (not from you, in general) that Erika somehow "deserved" Dorit's treatment or didn't have a right to be upset about it or that it's all her fault simply because she went commando that evening.

[Jel]

19 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

No argument here. I just can't get down with what seems to be this pervasive idea (not from you, in general) that Erika somehow "deserved" Dorit's treatment or didn't have a right to be upset about it or that it's all her fault simply because she went commando that evening.

If we could just find a way to blame the whole thing on Rinna, Philmarlow2. Perhaps we should all slip on our bifocals and get to work on that...

To the Bat Cave!

[noveltylibrary65]

On 3/30/2017 at 2:30 PM, KungFuBunny said:

Does anyone remember when she was planning to meet him? Did it happen already?

I thought it was like the next week after she mentioned it..  She is utterly bizarre--sober but still acting like a full-blown addict ie meeting a stranger nude in bed ?

[jaync]

Quote

lop sided kid

Wow. The baby hate is strong.

Quote

I have noticed that Erika  likes to flash the colour pink.

In more ways than one!

[pbutler111]

2 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

So because Erika went commando, she has no right to be suspicious/annoyed that a fellow cast member goes out of her way to shame her for it? Sorry, I don't agree. By this logic, none of the housewives have the right to get mad at any other housewives for anything they do on camera. Hey, Kim Richards chose to be on a reality TV show and got repeatedly drunk/high on camera - she has no right to whine because Lisa Rinna took the ball and ran with it. Hey, it's "fair game," right?

This was your question to me: "But how would you feel if you were on a national TV show, and someone you had just met, someone with whom you had no real relationship, took it upon herself to speak about your accidental flash not once, not twice, but three separate times behind your back - on camera, so that it would definitely become part of the show - and then prolonged it further by buying you a pair of panties to point it out for all to see?" And that was my answer: I'd feel like the new person catches on quick how things work.  You don't think Erika's suspicions or annoyances or however you want to categorize whatever the hell she did in Hong Kong isn't also part of the show?  I'm fairly certain she's as aware of the cameras surrounding her as is Dorit or any of the others.  No one said that anyone didn't have a right to do anything.  But having a right to do something and having others view you exercising that right as appropriate or justified are two different things.  They all know they're on TV, Kim Richards included, and they all know that their lives will be wide open to scrutiny and, yes, fair game for show fodder.  They're not the first people in the history of the world to be on a reality TV show.  They have years of precedents to look back on; they know the drill.  If you're on a Bravo reality TV show, and you're filming, and you announce to a whole party that you're not wearing underwear, and you're don't feel much of a need to make sure your nether regions are adequately covered, then that's all part of the show and may well be the main story for the season.  That's how it goes.  And if you don't like how that turned out for you, I guess you won't be doing that again.  And if you really, really don't like how that turned out for you, maybe you'll take your allegedly shy, naked fanny off the reality TV show and go back to the quiet, contemplative life of calling people "cunt" and clutching your pussy on stage in front of enormous audiences of tweaking gay men who want to steal your look. Or maybe knitting.

[Higgins]

2 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

So because Erika went commando, she has no right to be suspicious/annoyed that a fellow cast member goes out of her way to shame her for it? Sorry, I don't agree. By this logic, none of the housewives have the right to get mad at any other housewives for anything they do on camera. Hey, Kim Richards chose to be on a reality TV show and got repeatedly drunk/high on camera - she has no right to whine because Lisa Rinna took the ball and ran with it. Hey, it's "fair game," right?

So because Erika chose to wear a short dress sans underwear and exposed her vulva to several people, they have no right to be suspicious/ annoyed?

[noveltylibrary65]

On 3/30/2017 at 11:11 PM, dosodog said:

LVP has this thing about underwear jokes.   How big are my knickers, I've got one suitcase jusr for my underwear, Kyle teases her about her underwear, so as far as LVP goes, I don't think it's out of the ordinary to talk about underwear.

Do I think most people talk about underwear?  No, but it does seem to be a LVP thing.

Nor do I know of anyone toting around extra pairs of undies.  On the other hand, as far as I know,  everyone I know wears underwear in public.  

I've seen the pantylines......

Of course now I say, how coincidental that Kyle needed underwear the same night Ericka wasn't wearing any.....

So.  After weighing the evidence I can find, I conclude. 

Lisa Rinna is vile. 

This is awesome. And remember how vile was used for Kyle?  It fits so much better for Rinna.

[PhilMarlowe2]

9 minutes ago, Higgins said:

So because Erika chose to wear a short dress sans underwear and exposed her vulva to several people, they have no right to be suspicious/ annoyed?

Sure if they want - and they can address it directly if that is the case rather than attempting to passive-aggressively embarrass her for an accidental exposure.

[noveltylibrary65]

21 hours ago, jaync said:

Why didn't one of Erika's toadies give her a heads-up about being exposed when they tested out her "look"? Also, she seemed totally fine once she got confirmation that the view was indeed, nice.

I think Erika wanted her cookie to be seen. There, I said it.

Ooh you victim-blamer you ?  'toadies' lmao

Edited April 1, 2017 by noveltylibrary65

[dosodog]

41 minutes ago, Jel said:

If we could just find a way to blame the whole thing on Rinna, Philmarlow2. Perhaps we should all slip on our bifocals and get to work on that...

To the Bat Cave!

Let's not even try to find a way.

Here's how I blame Rinna.  This went to level red because she had to deflect her hatred of kim Richards  concern for kim Richards.  So?  She takes Ericka's perception of Dorit asking if Lisa's pills could cause her to not remember, turns in into this whole "I'm suddenly psychic about shit" because someone told me or not told me.  

Was purposely vague in her "clearing of the air" with Dorit.  Which was actually setting Dorit up.  She knew Dorit wasn't going to let it go.  She knew Dorit would ask the group.

Rinna propably knew how Ericka was socially lying to the group about her level of embarrassment because it's important to Ericka to have this tough broad, cool girl, I don't give 0 fucks about anything because I'm so fabulous and y'all are just hos  persona. 

And she played her good friend Ericka into looking like a crazed, loon.

What have we learned here?  Say it with me...

Lisa Rinna is vile. *

*I don't even have to type that out anymore.  As soon as I type Lisa, the rest of the phrase pops up.

[Watermelon]

23 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Sure if they want - and they can address it directly if that is the case rather than attempting to passive-aggressively embarrass her for an accidental exposure.

I mean....not like Ericka decided to be direct about her pantygate feelings until months later. 

[pbutler111]

16 hours ago, Trooper York said:

As I am sure you know "hate" is a riff on Star Wars.

The thing is there are a lot people defending PK who is a worthless douche. You don't comment on your wife's friends lady parts. Sorry. One word is one word too much. He was gleeful in saying he "had to look." Give me a break. If Tom wasn't 1000 years old he would probably knock him on his keister. In fact that is what Erika should do. When he mouths off to her she needs to jump up and clamp her thighs on his neck like that James Bond girl did and choke him out.

Now that would be craptastic.

The victims? 

The proper response when a beautiful woman shows you her lady bits?

"Thank You."

Seriously?  "Beautiful" is subjective.  And I'm not a gynecologist, so I don't care who's flashing me her lady bits, my response would be the same: keep it to yourself.

[ElDosEquis]

A two year old walks by a coffee table and cracks his melon when he stumbles on a toy.

A parent will walk over and try to comfort them. The child is pretty innocent to the dangers of the world. They need to be protected from themselves and the dangers in the world at large.

"Los ninos no tienen ningun culpa!"

Some ratched decides to go out with out underwear on and accidentally flashes her twat to the people with her.

If you don't realize that MIGHT happen, you probably need to be treated like a two year old - at the least - or a god damn simpleton for NOT realizing what MIGHT happen at one point during the evening.

When you can feed yourself and wipe your ass on your own, you pretty much have half of the problems in life figured out.

I try to give people a benefit of a doubt, but when you come off as some sanctimonious asshole who actually believes that they are morally, intellectually and behaviorally superior than the people around ya?

I reserve the right not to hate you, I do pity you and also plan on laughing my ass off at you.

It's your ass, my humor and everyone's planet.

If you keep your ass covered from the planet, it's safe from my humor.

I refuse to feel sorry for stupid people making stupid decisions?

[bravofan27]

I think Ericka flashing her bits was an accident. She's a larger woman wearing a short tight dress and even though she likes to stay as straight and still as possible, one reach for her drink will hike that baby up. I was at Starbucks the other day and this poor barista, a little curvy had a short dress on and running around and reaching for stuff had the dress, probably cute when adjusted, up close to her thighs and you could see the panty liner in her tights. Ick! Anyway, she was sitting down with her legs together, it's not like she was stretched out and you could see much. Maybe the tip of a fold or something. Also, I think PJ is the last person Ericka would care about flashing, and I understand her being pissed off that Dorit has insinuated she did it on purpose. I remember I had a professor once who insinuated I tried to hit on him, and he was this gross ugly guy that I sort of thought was repulsive. I was furious that he wanted to make it seem like I had the hots for him-- please, it was insulting. Maybe it's Dorit's way of trying to make her husband seem desirable, though he clearly is not and it failed. 

Yes, Dorit does seem to be trying hard to get Ericka to like her. Ericka did the runway look with the big sweatshirt (which Dorit criticized), but then Dorit had to copy the gold hair runway look. Ericka has a glam squad, so Dorit brought her own make-up artist. It's not major stuff, but I do see how Ericka is catching on and feeling a little too observed. 

I thought that Ericka's breakdown and lash-out at Elieen was more due to her trying to push Elieen away. The night before, Elieen tried to give her a hug and comfort her, and I think that made Ericka very uncomfortable. She wants her distance, and I don't really blame her. She has her life and lifestyle and she isn't interested in bonding with a bunch of women. She was more comfortable with Yolanda who is also guarded and stand-offish. 

My last supportive comment on Ericka-- she is a fantastic dancer on DWTS. I really like watching her, and she is talented. I also don't think she feels any guilt about not raising her son, and I don't think she's that close to him either. I also don't think he is a police officer. Maybe he was at one point in time, but methinks he isn't doing too much with his life if he is living with his mom. If he were doing well and healthy, why wouldn't he have a family or at least be independent? He's just mooching. IMO. 

[ElDosEquis]

14 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I would agree-it was judgmental. I didn't get why Dorit needed the intro about one crossing their legs, instead of just saying-"hey Erika had her crotch on display-is this a common practice with her?"  Let's face it Dorit and Erika never liked each other.  Erika can claim be guarded and the rest of her BS spiel but bottom line she does give a fuck. 

You know it is funny thing when you keep going after someone like Brandi did with Kyle and Joyce they have their limits. 

And that stems from her desire to drive the narrative, to be the topic du jour.

I LOVED her indignation at the panty presentation - instead of passing the 'gift' off as

Bad HoWife Theater and not making a huge deal out of it?

No, make a stand and how just how far they get under YOUR skin because you have a fucked up decision making process (re bad judgement).

You open the door, don't expect the flies to stay outta the room.

[halkatla]

"I would never in a million years say anything that I thought would hurt anybody"

 

Wow Eileen, those are some words to live by - I love it!