S05.E03: The Midges

[Kathemy]

Just now, sistermagpie said:

That sounds like it would be absolutely torture for Philip and for Martha too. 

Oh, it wouldn't exactly be a happy ending.

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

You're not! I can't imagine what it must have been like to go from little to no choice and scarce supplies to an obscene level of choice and quantity.

Neither do I, and I think it's kind of insulting to Philip that Elizabeth can manipulate him so easily with sex. He's not some naïf—he's a highly trained agent like Elizabeth is. 

Except I purposely said Philip knew exactly what she was doing and went with it.  I like Elizabeth for some reasons, but I'm just not fond of fanatics, of any kind, religious, political, or any other kind.  Philip's question, and his obvious doubts from the very first episode, have always made Elizabeth uncomfortable, sometimes angry, and while I agree, on occasions they may reflect her own personal doubts, this possibly being one of those occasions.   True believers can't have doubts though, so rather than fight or debate, she turned to sex. 

Elizabeth, love her or hate her, IS the only reason Philip has continued to work for the KGB.  They both know it, this isn't some seduction of an innocent lonely person, or pretending to be turned on by some horny mark.  This was a way to connect, and change the subject back to something that Philip needs to stay in line.  Elizabeth may have needed it as well to take her own mind off his question.  My point is that neither one was in the mood at that time, so Elizabeth took actions to change that, and they both saw that happening and chose to allow it.

Unless thinking about starving people is a turn on that is...

1 hour ago, RedHawk said:

Maybe a boy who is happy that his parents and sister are distracted plus he knows exactly where they are, so he can have some  alone time with his photo of Mrs. Beeman?

Seriously though, I've always assumed that Henry is listening at the top of the stairs and just lies to Paige about what he has heard. That would fit his character as we've seen it.

Yelling from a stranger in my house wouldn't make me jump to "Oh yay!  Private time to masturbate!"  I'd be concerned that they were in danger or trouble, and/or CURIOUS about why the pastor's wife was screaming at them.  He admitted to hearing screaming.  I absolutely don't buy he wouldn't listen in.  I think he's heard Paige in the past as well, but I'm just spitballing there.  A couple of the "looks" I'm talking about from Henry?  Remember when mom, dad, and Henry were playing hockey in the driveway, Paige arrives home, GAME OVER, and the parents follow Paige right into the house.  Another was after the mugging with the dead guy, Philip had been playing a computer game with Henry.  Oh but Paige is distraught, so both parents go up to Paige's room and close the door.  Henry's look there was nearly the same.  No way that guy doesn't know something is up.

45 minutes ago, topanga said:

Love everyone's posts. Two questions:

• Did Stan & Aderholt approach the same guy twice, or were they two different guys? And what's the deal behind their actions, anyway? Are they recruiting an asset? Trying to get info?
• What's the Centre going to do with William's poisoned flesh? 

One of the guys worked for the Russian Airline, the other guy worked for Amtorg.  From the really thorough Vox recap:

Quote

As for Stan, “The Midges” kind of stranded him and Aderholt in the very early stages of an investigation involving Aeroflot, a Soviet airline, and Amtorg, which among other things oversaw exports of raw materials for Soviet industry and agriculture. So it’s fairly easy to guess how this storyline might eventually overlap with what the Jennings have going on (funny how that always seems to be the case with Stan’s investigations, huh?).  http://www.vox.com/2017/3/21/14983560/the-americans-episode-3-recap-midges

I kind of love that they showed that not all targets are easy gets, it's been a bit too much of that on the show.  However, I also agree with this comment from Vox, which does a back and forth between two or three recappers.

Quote

It looks for all the world like Stan’s doing the least effective investigative work of his career. The Bureau is so poorly equipped to investigate whatever it’s trying to investigate that it’s sending relatively senior agents to cold-call Russian executives in public restrooms — either on no intel that indicates they’d be sympathetic, or on bad intel. It’s not going to work, and Stan knows it; this is the opposite of the immersive work on which he built his career.

So, is the show just adding in some "failures" to show that it's not always easy, OR, is it that the FBI is "watching" Stan because of the CIA op with Oleg?  In other words, putting Stan on lesser assignments and keeping him away from the important stuff because of doubts about his loyalty? 

Personally, I feel there is ample evidence and examples that at that time, the CIA and FBI not only didn't work together well, they also didn't trust one another, and there was a rivalry as well.  So...could be interesting, and it may have a lot to do with HOT BLOND who just happens to love sports and go to Stan's gym at the same time he does.  I mean, does Stan have any other interests other than sports and his job?  The only time they might collaborate on an op like this is if the CIA had evidence an FBI agent might not be loyal. (or visa versa)  Even then though, in the whole USA 1985 year of traitorous spies for us, one reason they weren't caught earlier is the lack of cooperation between intelligence agencies.

It's just a little too convenient, and Stan fell for the hot babe before as well all know, and that one was Russian.  I don't think that information is as "secret" as Stan thinks it is.  A lot of people know about it, and yes, most of those are Russians, but the CIA has sources of it's own, and may have that intel.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Umbelina

[Milburn Stone]

18 hours ago, RedHawk said:

So the lady watching the parking lot (and the black male lookout) would have to get rid of car and body.

So, you seem sure that the black guy was a second lookout on the lab break-in. I'm glad somebody is! (I mean that sincerely.) Because I didn't get quite enough visual information to place him geographically in any particular location.

[RedHawk]

5 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

It's just a little too convenient, and Stan fell for the hot babe before as well all know, and that one was Russian.  I don't think that information is as "secret" as Stan thinks it is.  A lot of people know about it, and yes, most of those are Russians, but the CIA has sources of it's own, and may have that intel.

I'm pretty sure that Aderholt twigged Stan's relationship with Nina just from reading the file on the case and asking Stan a couple of questions. He's pretty sharp and didn't say anything further but he knows. 

I was joking about Henry and the photo -- totally sure that he's listened in on every argument in that household (that he was around for) and has picked up on the weird vibes and intense focus on Paige. Kids don't just shrug and do as they're told, shut the door and ignore what's happening right in their own home. 

2 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

So, you seem sure that the black guy was a second lookout on the lab break-in. I'm glad somebody is! (I mean that sincerely.) Because I didn't get quite enough visual information to place him geographically in any particular location.

Good point. I assumed he was one of their people doing lookout duty in Oklahoma, but I'd have to re-watch those scenes. Was there anywhere else he could have been watching? Was he the same guy who was watching the roadway behind Ft. Detrick during the Big Dig?

[Anela]

I won't quote, but what @Umbelina said. She reported him to their boss as a possible traitor, in the first episode or two, of the series. I've seen him being just as evil, and mentioned it, too - whether it's killing someone, or marrying Martha. 

I did like his snarky, "Shall we tell Paige about THIS?" 

[dubbel zout]

31 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Except I purposely said Philip knew exactly what she was doing and went with it. 

I wasn't answering specifically to you, but to the idea that Philip wouldn't know exactly what Elizabeth was doing. (I quoted you because it was the closest to when I replied.)

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, Anela said:

I won't quote, but what @Umbelina said. She reported him to their boss as a possible traitor, in the first episode or two, of the series. I've seen him being just as evil, and mentioned it, too - whether it's killing someone, or marrying Martha. 

 

She did that before the start of the series, actually. Was probably doing it regularly for a while. It just didn't come back to bite him until Trust Me in Season 1. At which point she was self-righteous about it.

Edited March 23, 2017 by sistermagpie

[Kathemy]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/03/22/the-insect-warfare-on-the-americans-isnt-all-that-outlandish/

[Quando]

Quote

It looks for all the world like Stan’s doing the least effective investigative work of his career. The Bureau is so poorly equipped to investigate whatever it’s trying to investigate that it’s sending relatively senior agents to cold-call Russian executives in public restrooms

Yeah.  When my wife saw this awkward scene she said, "looks like Stan's a bad missionary."

[Umbelina]

I expect spies to kill people, con people, and lie to people, so I can't call them "evil" because of it, but I can say certain killings are "evil." 

If this show were completely realistic, which it isn't, the regular KGB teams would have done all of the breaking and entering jobs, the sabotaging equipment jobs, and certainly the flat out hits, like the guy under the car, the mail robot disaster, and the bug lab.  Valuable "illegals" would never get even close to that shit, too easy for things to go wrong, and you don't need covers or perfect American accents to do that stuff.  The team that went in and accidentally killed Gaad, for example. 

For those reasons, I kind of give a pass to a lot of the murders/deaths that the Jennings are involved in.  Reality?  Someone else would have done them, just as bad, because they would need to tell someone to do it, but still.  It's a show conceit to keep the stars on screen and their relatively boring jobs more exciting.  They WOULD do stuff like the Koreans Op, recruit the Alcoholics Anonymous lady to take a camera into a critical lab, the Kimmie, hotel guy, Suitcase girl, and Martha ops though.

The worst murders, for me anyway, when I put my "spy hat" on to enjoy spy shows are the stupid, accidental, or killing of innocents for no intelligence reason at all.  Vlad (by Stan) and the scientist certainly qualify.

Body counts always mount up on spy shows, Borne Identity to James Bond to Carrie's drone strikes on Homeland, or the black ops guy on the same show killing a kid...it's kind of a given.  Gaad didn't give one damn about Nina's life either, she was a "source" only to him, if anything, they've shown Philip and Elizabeth to actually care about their sources.  Stan cared, but was that human caring, or just the sex/love/obsession with Nina?

Edited March 23, 2017 by Umbelina

[chick binewski]

16 hours ago, stagmania said:

As a few others have mentioned (I had all your lovely posts quoted and then lost them, dammit), Elizabeth absolutely has real feelings and cares deeply about her family and her cause. I've never believed that Elizabeth is sociopathic, and I don't think what we've seen on the show really supports that idea. She had a whole arc last season where she was struggling to deal with her emotions and creeping doubts. Her cause, while hard for many of us to understand or support, means a great deal to her and inspires real feeling. That makes her sympathetic to me, even if I do sometimes get frustrated that she doesn't question things as much as Phillip does.

 

16 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I also don't feel that Elizabeth was just "working" Philip by using sex to distract him from his questions. It occurs to me that maybe she uses it to repress her unsaid questions as well. They have been shown to be able to lose themselves in sex -- with each other -- and the intimacy comforts them. 

   

15 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

In other news, while I generally have a healthy appreciation for the shades of gray in our (anti)heroes, this was one of those episodes where I just wanted to smack Philip and Elizabeth really hard. Their manipulation of Paige nauseates me, and now she's buying into their spin, because why wouldn't she? Of course she wants to believe her parents are saving the world. I realize that my personal experiences with children (my own) being manipulated (by my malignant-narcissist ex) inform my visceral reactions to these scenes, but still. It's almost easier for me to handle them killing people. Almost. I also wanted to punch them for killing Randy (I'm another one who thought he said "weed eaters"). I guess they had to do away with him, but I really hated them in that scene.

 

7 hours ago, stagmania said:

It's also not lost on me that Phillip is the one who snapped a guy's spine in two this episode, and yet the vast majority of conversation has been about Elizabeth's morality or lack thereof. I've always thought it was such a smart choice to flip the expected gender dynamic in this relationship, but it seems to have resulted in a female character being judged far more harshly than I believe her male counterpart would be if their respective roles had followed more traditional emotional profiles.

 

6 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I absolutely believe that Elizabeth is evil.  Through out real world history, there have been evil people that thought they were doing the right thing.  Feeling justified in their causes, doesn't make any individual or individuals any less evil.

Some of the quotes I've been pulling on this board are because so many have articulated great arguments and I'm trying use them to present my view in the clearest way possible. I do think Elizabeth harbors feelings and emotions and sociopath may be a lazy and inaccurate diagnosis. But based on the level of conflict we've seen her display compared to Philip makes me question her humanity differently than I do Philip's. I've regarded Philip as a monster many times throughout the series based on his actions. But other behavior that can be perceived as positive or negative (attending EST, the macho lashing out at Paige & Pastor Tim as examples) - while not necessarily always making him more sympathetic to me they DO make him more interesting and more watchable. I think b/c this episode featured a murder of an innocent  as well as the seduction scene it brings Elizabeth & Philip's natures to the forefront again. Based on what the series has given us I can see (while not agree with) Philip's thought processes; I cannot say the same about Elizabeth. Oftentimes I feel the show is telling us - rather than showing us - who she is. And I think that feeds into the speculation of her mental state.     

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

I am beginning to think that Gabriel is full of shit.  He is at adept  at manipulating Elizabeth as Elizabeth is manipulating her marks.  He is the father figure she has always wanted.  He knows if he can get E on board P will fall into line.

Watching Frank Langella on this show is such a treat. And I absolutely think he works Elizabeth with complete confidence in the ability to do so every time he engages with her.  

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

Based on what the series has given us I can see (while not agree with) Philip's thought processes; I cannot say the same about Elizabeth. Oftentimes I feel the show is telling us - rather than showing us - who she is. And I think that feeds into the speculation of her mental state.   

That's interesting because from the beginning there's always been so much more focus on Elizabeth's life and inner-life and I think it was for exactly this reason, they they knew the could hold back on a specific backstory for Philip because most of his actions made sense. But Elizabeth's actions were so much harder to understand they needed to try to explain where she was coming from. Whether they've succeeded in that for everyone is another question of course!

[MisterBluxom]

15 hours ago, magemaud said:

My "Martha Sighting" was kind of spoiled since I was looking up some info on IMDB on my tablet and saw her name listed in the credits for the episode. Alison Wright sure has been busy since the last time we saw at the safe house. She's been on "Sneaky Pete" and she also has a role on "Feud." I wonder if she'll be on again, or was that the one nod to the viewers that she was, indeed, safely relocated to the Soviet Union. And someone please refresh my memory, would she and Oleg ever have crossed paths in the US? 

I don't think that was a one-time sighting because she looked so desperately miserable and unhappy. So there is something more to the story and it would be terribly cruel and unfair if the two J's didn't explain to us just what was causing her misery - even though it would seem to be fairly obvious - no food - no romance - no entertainment - no fulfillment. Those are just some of the reasons why she would likely be so unhappy. Don't you think?

She could likely get by without most all of those. But being deprived of all of them and everything else would be just too much to bear for any American girl. I just can't imagine.

Remember when P&E were talking about her? One of them said that she would be a "hero" in Russia. Did she seem to be living the life of a hero? I don't think so. I wouldn't be so bitter about her fate if only they would have sent her to Cuba. Why didn't they send her to Cuba? She could have likely found romance and food and drink and hapiness in Cuba - even if she would never get rich. 

I will go out on a limb here and suggest the single biggest reason for Martha's misery is the realization that Clark & Martha could never live happily ever after. Even if he really did love her (which we are fairly certain that he never did), there was no chance they could ever have had a happy life together - not in the USA and not in Russia and not anywhere else either. She had consigned herself to a life filled with cold and misery in a place with no love in her heart. Poor dear. It's enough to make me cry real tears. I feel so badly for her. Poor baby.

Edited March 23, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Umbelina]

Cuba was too close, too leaky, too easy to escape, so, not only not as secure, not as equipped to deal with someone like Martha, who could blow their illegals out of the game.

I'm not sure we'll see more of Martha, I think it was nice of them to give us that one little glimpse though.  I hope they eventually gave her a warm coat and decent boots and some flats.  I didn't catch it, was she still wearing those heels?

Looks like that same inadequate cloth coat, but a new scarf, blouse, and dumpy skirt. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Umbelina

[RedHawk]

2 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I don't think that was a one-time sighting because she looked so desperately miserable and unhappy. So there is something more to the story and it would be terribly cruel and unfair if the two J's didn't explain to us just what was causing her misery - even though it would seem to be fairly obvious - no food - no romance - no entertainment - no fulfillment. Those are just some of the reasons why she would likely be so unhappy. Don't you think?

She could likely get by without most all of those. But being deprived of all of them and everything else would be just too much to bear for any American girl. I just can't imagine.

Remember when P&E were talking about her? One of them said that she would be a "hero" in Russia. Did she seem to be living the life of a hero? I don't think so. I wouldn't be so bitter about her fate if only they would have sent her to Cuba. Why didn't they send her to Cuba? She could have likely found romance and food and drink and hapiness in Cuba - even if she would never get rich. 

Add "no career" to your list of things Martha doesn't have. She was an independent working woman who cared about her job and now she may have been given some sort of work but she likely had and has no choice but, like Oleg, take the job she is assigned. 

I don't think the KGB care about her happiness or her chances of romance. She's a small player and they have given her a life, which is likely all they think they owe her. Have you heard of the British double agent, Kim Philby? For all he did for the USSR, after he defected he ended up living on a small stipend in a shabby apartment. He was not treated as a "hero" or given an officer's rank in the KGB as he had been led to expect.

[sistermagpie]

17 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

For all he did for the USSR, after he defected he ended up living on a small stipend in a shabby apartment. He was not treated as a "hero" or given an officer's rank in the KGB as he had been led to expect.

I think it's more that this is the life of a hero in the USSR. I mean, Philip wasn't saying she'd get endless ticker tape parades, he was saying what she did would be respected and they'd be grateful for it. Working for the FBI Martha would probably have a good idea of how someone like that would be thought of. There are plenty of people who were heroes at one point and die in obscurity and poverty in the West too. I don't think Martha's much surprised at her life basically just being an existence. 

Also, she doesn't seem so desperately unhappy to me. Not happy, certainly, but not even as tragic as Paige in this episode. It's not like she was looking forward to life in the USSR. She knew it was going to be less happy than her previous life in just about every way and there was nothing the Soviets could do about that, probably.

[Sarah 103]

20 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Add "no career" to your list of things Martha doesn't have. She was an independent working woman who cared about her job and now she may have been given some sort of work but she likely had and has no choice but, like Oleg, take the job she is assigned. 

I'm curious. Does anyone have some idea of what kind of work she might be doing? She can read and speak American English, which would potentially be a useful skill, depending on what they have her doing. 

[dubbel zout]

I wouldn't be surprised if that little peek at Martha drew a line under her story. People might want more, but we see her alive and living her life, such as it is. There's a finality to that, IMO.

[Umbelina]

11 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think it's more that this is the life of a hero in the USSR. I mean, Philip wasn't saying she'd get endless ticker tape parades, he was saying what she did would be respected and they'd be grateful for it. Working for the FBI Martha would probably have a good idea of how someone like that would be thought of. There are plenty of people who were heroes at one point and die in obscurity and poverty in the West too. I don't think Martha's much surprised at her life basically just being an existence. 

Also, she doesn't seem so desperately unhappy to me. Not happy, certainly, but not even as tragic as Paige in this episode. It's not like she was looking forward to life in the USSR. She knew it was going to be less happy than her previous life in just about every way and there was nothing the Soviets could do about that, probably.

He, and Elizabeth both said the exact words "honored as a hero."  Are they really that out of touch with the reality of life in the USSR, they've been told, over and over again.  They certainly seemed to honestly believe that as well.

While Martha was allowed to shop at a better store, there is no evidence that the woman behind the counter was going to show her any of the back room stash either.  She wasn't with anyone, a translator, for example, and I seriously doubt that even with 7 months of total immersion in the language she would know how to ask if their were any fresh tangerines hidden away. 

[Sarah 103]

18 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Let me predict the three most common probabilities - a girl or drugs or a criminal gang.

This is supposed to be in Philip's voice: Have you seen where we live? I think we can eliminate number three, which leaves a girl or drugs. I'm guessing drugs. 

5 hours ago, magemaud said:

No, I'm not seeing a romance (Martha's not pretty enough for Oleg) just them becoming "good comrades." 

Good. Because Oleg is mine (even though he's fictional), and I know I'm going to have to stand in a long line and wait my turn or be prepared to fight for him. 

4 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Perhaps being his father's true son he decided it's better to act innocent and youthful rather than tough and calculating? One possibility.

This is a wonderful observation. It's a parallel to the way Philip acts with Stan. Philip acts questions and plays dumb to some degree. I like the theory that Henry is acting the same way towards his father. Act like a kid who doesn't know/understand what is going on around him, and no one will ever guess how much he actually knows or what he suspects. (How much Henry actually knows is totally up for debate.)

Edited March 23, 2017 by Sarah 103

[RedHawk]

39 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

(How much Henry actually knows is totally up for debate.)

And is under lively debate in the "Henry" thread, all welcome to join in.

[Razzberry]

Seeing Martha in the middle of this really deepened my growing disdain of P & E, but there were comedic moments.  The problem is I don't think they're meant to be funny.

"Aren't we going to stop the grain shipments?"
"We don't know what we're talking about yet."

"We told Paige a little about what we're doing here."
"And how did that go?"
"Looks like she's re-thinking a lot of things, including us."

"Why can't we grow enough grain ourselves?"
"Everybody has problems."

OMG. And they say Martha is dumb.

[magemaud]

I looked at IMDB to see if Martha was listed to appear in future episodes, but not going to spoil it here! 

[chick binewski]

42 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I wouldn't be surprised if that little peek at Martha drew a line under her story. People might want more, but we see her alive and living her life, such as it is. There's a finality to that, IMO.

I would like to see the character play a part in working towards the conclusion of the show. However I could see this sighting as quite final; P&E and the KGB use people and situations to their end. Is the better ending alone in a cold corner of the world in a prison somewhat of your own making or with your neck snapped in Oklahoma?

31 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

He, and Elizabeth both said the exact words "honored as a hero."  Are they really that out of touch with the reality of life in the USSR, they've been told, over and over again.  They certainly seemed to honestly believe that as well.

While Martha was allowed to shop at a better store, there is no evidence that the woman behind the counter was going to show her any of the back room stash either.  She wasn't with anyone, a translator, for example, and I seriously doubt that even with 7 months of total immersion in the language she would know how to ask if their were any fresh tangerines hidden away. 

That hero status P&E have repeatedly referred to is another wtf for me. 

As much as I rolled my eyes at Martha during S1-4 I always rooted a bit for her. There was something very smart and self-sufficient about her, but also something very old-fashioned. I swear, every time Clark would go back to that sad but sufficiently appointed apartment I felt like we were in the 1960's, not the 80's.

[RedHawk]

17 minutes ago, magemaud said:

I looked at IMDB to see if Martha was listed to appear in future episodes, but not going to spoil it here! 

Thank you. Someone did post about that regarding a different character a few pages back and I meant to comment on it. Please everyone let's agree that saying anything about how many appearances an actor has this season is a spoiler and should not be mentioned. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by RedHawk

[Clanstarling]

On 3/21/2017 at 10:11 PM, MissBluxom said:

Is it possible that grain land needs to "rest" every one year in seven? I had heard that old Biblical homily is actually true. The USSR would never pay any attention to anything from the Bible and so they probably insisted that farmers plant every inch of land every year and perhaps after many years, the land became depleted and failed to grow much.

The Ukraine was always known as the "breadbasket" of Asia. In the 1940s it apparently produced incredible amounts of wheat.

Yes, the nutrients in the land can get depleted by planting the same crop year after year (it may be specific crops, I'm not sure), that's why crop rotation is a big thing. I believe it was a partial reason for the Dust Bowl.

On 3/22/2017 at 0:46 AM, Umbelina said:

I was encouraged that the dude didn't take all of the money, or kill Misha, that indicated to me at least, that he WAS going to help him escape.  Part of that money no doubt went to the people living in the apartment for hooking them up, which was also a pretty big risk, I was with the wife on that one, and she didn't like it one bit.

I was as well, though I though Misha was all kind of stupid by putting all of his money in one place. Also, since he had so many passports - how hard would it be, really, to just go across the border? I've been across that border a few times (when it was Yugoslavia) with an American passport, no visa, and a Strategic Air Command sticker on the car. My cousin's husband was from Slovenia (where Ljbuljana is now), though I'm not entirely sure how he made it across the border after WWII.

On 3/22/2017 at 5:40 AM, Milburn Stone said:

I was more confused by the black guy with the binoculars, in a different car, who we saw in a shot immediately preceding hers. Was he also in Oklahoma, but not in the parking lot? If so, what was his role in the operation? If he was someone else entirely and somewhere else entirely, who and where?

He was in the scenes in ...Iowa? Ohio? (where they broke into the greenhouse). So I think he and the woman are a backup team of some sort. I figured he was a convert like Elizabeth's friend (whose name I forget). She might be as well - I thought she looked worried that Philip would kill her too - but I probably read too much into that.

On 3/22/2017 at 6:29 AM, ChromaKelly said:

I am questioning what Tuan is really up to. He at first spouts off how the US is going to destroy the Soviet Union and thinks Alexei is a traitor. Then he's critical of Pasha for being a whiny baby and not appreciating the food he has. Something is up.

I think he's a holier than thou commie. Very self-righteous. I think Philip and Elizabeth need to worry about him.

On 3/22/2017 at 3:41 PM, Umbelina said:

Let's put this together.

Philip is from Siberia.  His flashback showed a filthy, near hut, weren't the floors even dirt?  It seemed like it.  From his age, this would  have been sometime in the 1940s. 

What do we know about Siberia, oh yeah!  Labor camps!  Gulags!  It's been place of imprisonment and banishment for centuries.  Logging and lumber work were part of the prison work in several areas.

If Philip's dad were a guard, he would have a uniform, not those torn pants that looked like they wouldn't fit, given to his wife or mother to try to mend. 

So maybe Philip's dad was a prisoner?  Or had been, and like many, simply never left?  Prison accommodations could explain the condition of his home.  Or perhaps Philip's grandfather had been imprisoned, had his family there after release (or brought them with him) and Philip's dad just stayed on as a laborer?  All that dirt was there for a reason.

Anyone?  Just trying to put things together...

Which would make the story the agricultural guy (sorry, forgot the name of Pascha's father) even more close to home for Philip. And would make his and Elizabeth's motives for joining up very similar - to prove they're better citizens than their fathers. As for sharing pants (wherever that originally came from) I personally don't find it hard to believe that people can be so poor they could only afford one pair of work pants. I come from some very poor people on one side, and people who were bombed out of their home(s) three times during WWII. So I don't find it far fetched.

22 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I don't quite get why Alexi's wife is so unhappy, other than because Pasha is unhappy and of course that would matter most to her. Given that all we heard about in the '70s and '80s was the Russian young people's hunger for Levi's jeans (and "pictures of James Dean" -- anyone know that song?), rock'n'roll music, McDonald's hamburgers, etc. I'm a little unconvinced that Pasha truly thinks it would be better to return to the USSR. I get that the family were privileged there and so he had more than the typical Soviet teen, but still... ok, teenage angst, language difficulties, sure sure, but hey, have a Coke and a smile, Pasha!

She and Pasha probably have family and friends they now believe they'll never see again. It's one thing to sacrifice that willingly, quite another for it to be forced on you. It would also be galling to never be allowed to have one sentimental moment about all you've left behind.

21 hours ago, RedHawk said:

The one discrepancy that jars me is that Misha was a soldier, so I expect him to act a bit tougher, and yet, I can imagine he's terrified to be on this dangerous journey into the unknown and is hoping that by following his mother's instructions he'll be safe.

This. The guy's a battle hardened veteran and he acts like a boy. He acted like a boy in Russia as well, so I don't think it's a disguise like Philip's. It takes me out of the moment for him to be so naive.

Like everyone else, I shouted "Martha!"

This season, so far, doesn't seem to have the tension of previous seasons. The pastor and family are a no-show at this point (which makes no sense, they could at least have a line or two about them - like Henry does), and grain, while very important, doesn't have the immediacy of viruses, assassinations, active espionage on US agencies, etc. But, the showrunners have always pulled everything together, so I imagine it will make sense later on.

I miss Arkady - so now that you've shown us Martha, get Oleg and Arkady back together!

Edited March 23, 2017 by Clanstarling
too many quotes

[Umbelina]

I don't have a problem with Misha's behavior, though I can see why some do.

Sure, he's been in battle, but "battle hardened?"  Who knows?  He was sympathetic to the Afghanistan people (why the hell does everyone war with them, they are poor, they don't even have oil or gold and they barely had any weapons until the USA armed them?)  He could have been battle-broken as so many soldiers are.  He also then spent time in a prison of sorts for who knows how long. Yes, he was treated relatively well (thanks to dad's connections) but still, he was imprisoned.

It seems like he only speaks Russian, he's obviously never traveled at all, except with a troop transport where he was told what to do, given food, and certainly didn't deal with foreign currency or passports.  I'd be scared to knock on some random door in a foreign country while I was in hiding too, and that guy bursting in would scare any soldier, especially an unarmed soldier who was outnumbered and pretty desperate for help/advice etc.  Tell him as a soldier to go do something, he'd probably do it, but there are no officers around telling him what to do now.

Anyway, that's my take.

[dubbel zout]

31 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I thought she looked worried that Philip would kill her too

I'm always more surprised when someone doesn't die. 

32 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I think he's a holier than thou commie. Very self-righteous. I think Philip and Elizabeth need to worry about him.

Tuan is definitely a loose cannon in a lot of ways. I can see Pasha complaining once too often and Tuan snaps his neck or something.

[Clanstarling]

20 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I don't have a problem with Misha's behavior, though I can see why some do.

Sure, he's been in battle, but "battle hardened?"  Who knows?  He was sympathetic to the Afghanistan people (why the hell does everyone war with them, they are poor, they don't even have oil or gold and they barely had any weapons until the USA armed them?)  He could have been battle-broken as so many soldiers are.  He also then spent time in a prison of sorts for who knows how long. Yes, he was treated relatively well (thanks to dad's connections) but still, he was imprisoned.

It seems like he only speaks Russian, he's obviously never traveled at all, except with a troop transport where he was told what to do, given food, and certainly didn't deal with foreign currency or passports.  I'd be scared to knock on some random door in a foreign country while I was in hiding too, and that guy bursting in would scare any soldier, especially an unarmed soldier who was outnumbered and pretty desperate for help/advice etc.  Tell him as a soldier to go do something, he'd probably do it, but there are no officers around telling him what to do now.

Anyway, that's my take.

I think your take is valid. My world view is a little different, having been raised in the military around lots of Vietnam vets (my family included - I saw my brother change from a boy like Mischa into a man, just by virtue of basic training). My problem was not with the trepidation at knocking at an unknown door, or jumping when someone burst in (that part was entirely logical). I don't know, it's more his demeanor than anything else for me (and putting all that money in one location, just begging to be stolen in one fell swoop).

[sistermagpie]

54 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

As for sharing pants (wherever that originally came from) I personally don't find it hard to believe that people can be so poor they could only afford one pair of work pants. I come from some very poor people on one side, and people who were bombed out of their home(s) three times during WWII. So I don't find it far fetched.

Mom, Philip and unnamed boy were all wearing their own clothes below the waist. There was nothing in the show that implied one pair of family pants. I think that's a little different than work clothes. I think that's the sort of thing that was maybe implied by the pants exchange. Maybe the father was able to get another pair of pants if someone died or something and his wife was able to fit them to him, for instance.

 

47 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

The pastor and family are a no-show at this point (which makes no sense, they could at least have a line or two about them - like Henry does),

Paige mentioned the food bank. I'm sure we'll see them very soon. I think we've gone plenty of eps longer than this without seeing them.

32 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

It seems like he only speaks Russian, he's obviously never traveled at all, except with a troop transport where he was told what to do, given food, and certainly didn't deal with foreign currency or passports.

It would make sense if he only spoke Russian, but I don't think we've been given any sign either way that he does. We've only ever seen him interacting with people who speak Russian or another language other than English.

7 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I don't know, it's more his demeanor than anything else for me (and putting all that money in one location, just begging to be stolen in one fell swoop).

It would be interesting to see if the actor could snap into that recognizable military bearing if needed.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Oh, it wouldn't exactly be a happy ending.

I think that would be a very unhappy ending for both of them.  I'd imagine the only reason Martha might want to see Phillip again is to kill him for destroying her life.  And yes, I know she eventually made her own bad choices, but if there hadn't been Phillip, it's doubtful Martha would be shopping in a half empty grocery store in the USSR.   

[Helena Dax]

Omg, Martha!!!

I've seen some people wondering why Elizabeth doesn't see that life in America is better, that she's got things that she wouldn't have in Russia.. I think she'd never be satisfied with a good life knowing that there are people less fortunate, less privileged. Remember Gregory or the time she took Paige to some poor neighbourhood. She never forgets them because they're the people she's fighting for, too. If she knew the truth about life in USSR and other communist countries, I'm sure she'd feel absolutely bertrayed and disgusted.

Not very fond of Paige's storyline right now. 

[Clanstarling]

20 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Mom, Philip and unnamed boy were all wearing their own clothes below the waist. There was nothing in the show that implied one pair of family pants. I think that's a little different than work clothes. I think that's the sort of thing that was maybe implied by the pants exchange. Maybe the father was able to get another pair of pants if someone died or something and his wife was able to fit them to him, for instance.

Yes, I used work clothes specifically because it seemed a logical explanation for the pants thing (though I'd gone through six pages of comments, so who knows how the topic morphed in my mind by the time I responded).

I do recall the scene, but as strangely as it was shot, I took it that he was handing pants over to his wife for her to fix or tailor. It probably isn't as simple as that, nothing ever seems to be. Which is why I love the show.

[Umbelina]

41 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I think your take is valid. My world view is a little different, having been raised in the military around lots of Vietnam vets (my family included - I saw my brother change from a boy like Mischa into a man, just by virtue of basic training). My problem was not with the trepidation at knocking at an unknown door, or jumping when someone burst in (that part was entirely logical). I don't know, it's more his demeanor than anything else for me (and putting all that money in one location, just begging to be stolen in one fell swoop).

No, I've experienced the same thing, especially after basic training.

However, I've also experienced men in war who came home and jumped at every single backfire of a car, or, in one case, pulled me to the ground.  They've called it all kinds of names from "shell shock" to "PSTD" and guilt can play a heavy part, as well as seeing human beings at their worst, killing others, and even experiencing death and terror can have different effects on different personalities.  I've woken them from nightmares as well.  Sometimes war can even gentle someone, since it was all the violence they could stomach for one lifetime.

Misha isn't a coward, he joined in protests against the "unfair" war against Afghanistan people in RUSSIA!  However, he was a kid when drafted/joined, then followed orders and did what was required of him until he got home.  He used his own heart and initiative to join protests and what did that get him?  Thrown in jail following even more orders.  Now he's free, but barely, and out in a world he's never experienced or probably even read about.  "How to escape from the USSR" was probably not in his local library.  I doubt he even knows what border patrol checks look like, let alone require or expect with passports and the rest, "who do I hand this too, when?  What if I can't understand what they are asking me?"  etc. etc.  He didn't need a passport to kill Afganis.

He is afraid for his life right now, on the run, and frankly, to me, that seems like a perfectly reasonable attitude, nothing to do with cowardice.  He's known 3 lives, kid in Russia without a mom, kid in the military helping to kill people with whom he sympathized, kid foolishly following his heart and protesting, and kid in jail.  Now he's a slightly wiser kid on the run, after being blindsided with the information his mom left for him.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Umbelina

[dubbel zout]

13 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

If she knew the truth about life in USSR and other communist countries, I'm sure she'd feel absolutely bertrayed and disgusted.

Elizabeth has been hearing the truth for a while, but she's been so indoctrinated that I think if she allows herself to believe that things are so bad, she'll fall apart. Her identity is entirely about being a true believer.

[sistermagpie]

Just now, Clanstarling said:

Yes, I used work clothes specifically because it seemed a logical explanation for the pants thing (though I'd gone through six pages of comments, so who knows how the topic morphed in my mind by the time I responded).

Oh no, I think it was a good comment because I think that's a good observation. I watched it again to see what information we get, and it seems like he comes in, unfolds the pants and holds them up to his waist. So he might be showing their size. At first I'd just remembered him giving them to her like for mending--but it could be that too.

The flashback seems intentionally cut off to make it somewhat mysterious. Like there could be more to the scene that makes it an important memory and we just didn't see all of it, or it could also just be showing us that Philip intentionally doesn't linger on it and it's just a memory of an everyday scene with information hidden in the details.

It makes me wonder now if every time we've seen Philip looking in the mirror he might be having a flashback for part of the time!

I have to also say that I found myself noticing the curtains on the windows. They just stand out against the rest of the apartment, what looks like these gauzy white curtains on big windows.

[Umbelina]

Anyone find any screen shots or a video of that Russian flashback? 

12 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Elizabeth has been hearing the truth for a while, but she's been so indoctrinated that I think if she allows herself to believe that things are so bad, she'll fall apart. Her identity is entirely about being a true believer.

Knowing the truth wouldn't deter her at all, it would just make her fight harder to help her country get better.  She's no deserter or coward like her dad after all.   (Her poor dad, was probably terrified, starving, freezing to death in the snow, and at his wits' end when he "deserted.")

She's patriotic, like so many others, here or anywhere else.  Patriots fight for their country, and Nationalism is considered by some to be a great thing.

Personally, I think it's lead to most of the hardships, wars, and terrors in this world, but that's just me.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

Anyone find any screen shots or a video of that Russian flashback? 

There's a site that always does them--if I get a link I'll try to remember to post them.

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

He was sympathetic to the Afghanistan people (why the hell does everyone war with them, they are poor, they don't even have oil or gold and they barely had any weapons until the USA armed them?)

I won't pretend to be a geoplitical scholar, but my take on this (and it's somewhat off topic so I won't blather on, either), is that the Afghan people have had the bad luck to occupy the land that every world power of the era wants.  In the 19th Century, the British called it The Great Game, as they were trying to counter Russian influence in the area.  There's no minerals/oil/etc. there (opium notwithstanding), but it is right next door to Iran, which was and is well stocked with oil, as well as being a regional power able to dominate the region both sea and land.  I really think that we Americans were just trying to build on Britain's failures, and perhaps knock off a hostile regime or two in the process.

[Clanstarling]

36 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

No, I've experienced the same thing, especially after basic training.

However, I've also experienced men in war who came home and jumped at every single backfire of a car, or, in one case, pulled me to the ground.  They've called it all kinds of names from "shell shock" to "PSTD" and guilt can play a heavy part, as well as seeing human beings at their worst, killing others, and even experiencing death and terror can have different effects on different personalities.  I've woken them from nightmares as well.  Sometimes war can even gentle someone, since it was all the violence they could stomach for one lifetime.

Misha isn't a coward, he joined in protests against the "unfair" war against Afghanistan people in RUSSIA!  However, he was a kid when drafted/joined, then followed orders and did what was required of him until he got home.  He used his own heart and initiative to join protests and what did that get him?  Thrown in jail following even more orders.  Now he's free, but barely, and out in a world he's never experienced or probably even read about.  "How to escape from the USSR" was probably not in his local library.  I doubt he even knows what border patrol checks look like, let alone require or expect with passports and the rest, "who do I hand this too, when?  What if I can't understand what they are asking me?"  etc. etc.  He didn't need a passport to kill Afganis.

He is afraid for his life right now, on the run, and frankly, to me, that seems like a perfectly reasonable attitude, nothing to do with cowardice.  He's known 3 lives, kid in Russia without a mom, kid in the military helping to kill people with whom he sympathized, kid foolishly following his heart and protesting, and kid in jail.  Now he's a slightly wiser kid on the run, after being blindsided with the information his mom left for him.

You clearly have more experience with the aftermath of war service than I do. My brother and father both had some forms of PTSD, but fortunately not severe. And I never really interacted (that I knew of) with other veterans who had it worse.

I don't believe I said Mischa was a coward. I didn't equate his demeanor (the thing that bothered me) with cowardice. If he'd been a coward, as you pointed out, he wouldn't be in Yugoslavia right now. Something just bugs me about him, but maybe I'm being too impatient and expecting too much of him.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Umbelina]

No, you didn't, didn't mean to imply you said cowardice by quoting you! 

I just can somehow "buy" the apparent naivete, even though he's been in war.  I mean even handling all that money, I doubt he's ever seen so much, and probably isn't positive which money is for which country.

Was it stupid to put it all in one place?  Of course, but is he world-wise enough to think of that?  Maybe not, especially while he's scared to death.  He's probably had enough trouble finding food and places to bed down, and to avoid anyone who might be on to his escape plans.  Robbery was probably pretty far down on his list of fears.

In some ways I think Henry would have handled this better, simply because he's been exposed to so much more, isn't just out of prison, etc.  All the money in one place is something idiotic Paige would do.

I'll buy it for now, we just don't know enough about him yet, or his early life, or even anything about what he did or didn't do in war, only really have his reaction later.

[Christina]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

It's so funny. The show runners have said the audience is to infer that Paige is giving up on having a normal life, because she now wears her hair in a ponytail.  The actress is okay playing the clean cut sweet American teenager, but she really can not portray the angst and inner struggle that Paige must be feeling at this time.

This is not directed specifically to the quoted comment, it just took me to a train of thought. The lengths the showrunners go to for this show is very much appreciated by me, including the research on the time period down to what episode of a television show would be showing on that date and time. I'm willing to handwave William being buried because I expect that storyline isn't quite complete, and if they needed him to be buried to move the story along, I'll give them a pass because they don't ask it from me very often.

However, I've had to stop listening to the podcasts because they keep telling me I'm supposed to see, hear and think things that don't agree with my viewing experience. It's nice when someone posts this info here so I know what the underlying thought process is, but why in the world would I think a ponytail means she is giving up on having a normal life? She has made comments about never having a boyfriend, etc., but really? A ponytail equals giving up on having a normal life? I guess it's good that they have thought through the thought processes of a teenager, like when Felicity cut her hair to the outrage of fans even though it was typical behavior for a teen girl in that situation, but it seems that they may have reached a level of nitpickingness that doesn't add to the viewing pleasure. There are several comments, not just here, where fans are saying this season is not clicking with them yet. I'm still enjoying it for the most part, and will hardly stop watching before the final episode of the series, but have only watched one episode more than once this season.

ETA: Hit enter too soon but decided my comments on Elizabeth should probably be in her thread.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Christina

[qtpye]

Quote

However, I've had to stop listening to the podcasts because they keep telling me I'm supposed to see, hear and think things that don't agree with my viewing experience. It's nice when someone posts this info here so I know what the underlying thought process is, but why in the world would I think a ponytail means she is giving up on having a normal life? She has made comments about never having a boyfriend, etc., but really? A ponytail equals giving up on having a normal life?

It was something to the effect of in the earlier seasons, Paige has styled her hair into waves and now she just can not be bothered.  I do not think her pretty hair in a ponytail is that big of a deal, but it is supposes to be a visual cue about her depression.

Yeah, I do not get it either.

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, qtpye said:

It was something to the effect of in the earlier seasons, Paige has styled her hair into waves and now she just can not be bothered.  I do not think her pretty hair in a ponytail is that big of a deal, but it is supposes to be a visual cue about her depression.

I actually did think that as soon as she started wearing it in a ponytail, that it showed she wasn't styling her hair. But to be fair, I doubt they mean we have to get that information from it. It's probably more that if you're talking to the stylist that's what's going into her thinking. But we're supposed to get that she's depressed from the story and the acting.

It's funny to describe it as Paige giving up on a normal life since this is the first time on the show she's actually had a boyfriend and it's something she's obviously putting some effort into. It would have been just as believable for her to stick her hair in a ponytail when she was so politically active to show she doesn't care about shallow things like hair.

[Dev F]

7 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Good point. I assumed he was one of their people doing lookout duty in Oklahoma, but I'd have to re-watch those scenes. Was there anywhere else he could have been watching? Was he the same guy who was watching the roadway behind Ft. Detrick during the Big Dig?

It was. According to IMDb, the character's name is Norm and he's played by Russell G. Jones. The woman who was staking out the parking lot for them is Marilyn, played by Amy Tribbey.

I didn't realize until consulting IMDb that both characters were actually in season 4 as well. They're the agents who're seen in the background when Philip meets with William in the last couple episodes of the season, giving Phil signals to let him know whether William is free of surveillance. I think Marilyn is the woman Gabriel mentions in "Munchkins," whom he recruited after he saw a copy of a socialist newspaper hanging out of her bag. He describes her as being in her midforties, and Marilyn seems a little older than that, but she otherwise seems to fit the description of a librarian whom "you wouldn't even notice . . . if she sat on your lap."

After explaining how he recruited her, Gabriel says that "she and the older man, plus Hans, gives us enough of a team to move forward with William." So it makes sense that we later see her doing the blocking for Philip's meet-ups. I assume Norm is "the older man," though we haven't heard much else about him. (I wondered at first whether he was the same middle-aged black agent who tossed a radio into Elizabeth's car during her low-speed car chase in season 3, but I checked and it's definitely not the same actor.)

[VCRTracking]

Phillip and Elizabeth killing Randy was expected but still unnerving. I do like how they already had a very efficient two person move in case they had to kill a very tall person!

"Oklahoma City" is now officially in my top 5 favorite all their disguises.

I agree with this tweet:

 

Phillip has been seduced by America since season 1 and by now Elizabeth learned that instead of fighting it, she just has to be the better seductress.

Edited March 24, 2017 by VCRTracking

[kokapetl]

On 23/03/2017 at 10:37 AM, whiporee said:

We have no evidence the Soviets' grain supply is suffering for any reason other than incompetence. The Center says the US may be sabotaging shipments, but that's just the Center talking. However, if the Soviets were to sabotage the US supply, then the two superpowers are on more equal footing. Given the Soviet history of using tactics like that on their own people, I don't think there's any reason to doubt they would be attacking the US supply. As much as we might want to cheer for P&E, the USSR was not the good guy in this scenario. The William comparison was simply that William was willing to get the bio weapon samples -- even after he'd soured on the homeland aspects of his life -- because he thought the balance or terror needed to be preserved. But Maybe Oleg is the better comparison. 

I don't see how P&E have a marriage in any way that can be defined the way you're defining it. They were assigned each other after both were taught to use sex as a tool to control, if not a weapon. They may care about each other, but I think any time either of them provides solace to the other, I can't see how they would possibly trust it. Elizabeth may want Phillip from time to time, but she also knows -- or at least has been taught -- that the easiest way to control a man is by fucking him. If he's losing his focus on the job, fuck him until he's back on track. I don't know if that's true, but it's clearly what both P&E have been taught. She didn't suggest sex -- she made an aggressive and overt seduction, and the only time we ever see Elizabeth doing that is when Phillip is starting to wander from the corral. It may happen other times, but the times we're shown it, it's when Phillip is at an emotionally questioning time, and Elizabeth needs to reign him back in. 

Philip and Elizabeth are investigating Pasha's father. The Soviet Union does not understand why the USA want him. The midge importing lab was linked to this particular defector. 

[kokapetl]

20 hours ago, whiporee said:

That depends on how you see the world. 

If you can't grow grain, and your enemy can, you're at a disadvantage. If you can't grow grain and you have to BUY grain from your enemy, you're at a real disadvantage. 

But if you can't grow grain and your enemy also can't grow grain, you're equal. 

The USSR had no direct correlation between the population and the politburo, so there was less direct incentive for them to put the good of the people over the good of the nation. In the US, if people were starving (or bread prices are sky-high) the chances are they are voted out of office. Getting removed from office was not a foreseeable consequence to the politburo. Not that they were inherently evil or wanting to starve their population, but the strength of the country was more important than the welfare of its people. 

it also makers a lot more sense from a storytelling perspective. The program is already too advanced for a random botanist to be brought in in deal with developing midge-freindly wheat. But if he brought bugs with him ... 

It was possible for the Soviet Union to buy grain elsewhere. They didn't have to buy American grain.  

The price of a loaf of bread was not linked to the manufacturing cost, it was set by the state, and the state set the price very low, bread was cheap. 

It wouldn't have made sense for the 80s USSR, a grain importer, to try and restrict the global supply of grain. Grain prices would go up. 

[AllyB]

11 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Also, she doesn't seem so desperately unhappy to me. Not happy, certainly, but not even as tragic as Paige in this episode. It's not like she was looking forward to life in the USSR. She knew it was going to be less happy than her previous life in just about every way and there was nothing the Soviets could do about that, probably.

I think Martha did look quite worn down and far from happy but she also seemed quietly accepting. Martha is enough of a realist and a survivor to know that she took the least bad option. She probably has her own apartment, even if it has a shared kitchen and bathroom she has a room of her own that she can lock the door on at night. She was probably given some English books to read, Russian lesson books and a radio. She can go home, get in her bed, maybe with a hot drink and read or listen to music. It's not a lot but it's a level of freedom, privacy and comfort she could only dream of if she was in prison as a traitor. She has a crap selection of food, even in the 'good' supermarket we saw her in, but it's likely to be a level or two up from what would be on offer in the prison canteen.

As well as that, Martha is a romantic. She will get over Clark, she had started to do that as she left America. There will be a part of her that's starting to open up to the idea of meeting a nice Russian man. It might never happen but it's a possibility, a possibility that wouldn't exist in prison, and just having that small possibility will give her comfort and drive her. I can see her in her apartment struggling over a Russian lesson book or growing frustrated that she still can't follow what is said on the radio. But before she hits rock bottom she will think about maybe, just maybe finding love in the future and she will persevere. Philip ruined Martha's life but she isn't the type of person to let that destroy her, she is the type of person to get on with it and make the most of what she does have instead of obsessing about what she's lost.

[Ina123]

27 minutes ago, AllyB said:

I think Martha did look quite worn down and far from happy but she also seemed quietly accepting. Martha is enough of a realist and a survivor to know that she took the least bad option.

I'd still take jail in the US. In all likelihood she could still maintain a connection to her parents and , who knows, maybe it wouldn't have been a lifetime sentence? Maybe her parents would survive her time in prison or die eventually and leave some inheritance in the future for a decent life in old age, if released. Me? I'd have taken prison. to me the decision to leave was just an interesting plot line.