S05.E03: The Midges

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

We kind of know the problems with state controlled Russian farming anyway, or at least, from some past study I feel like I do. 

Seems like Philip's question was leading in that same direction.

But I like the way it's also tied to the emotions of not having enough food. This isn't like Reagan being assassinated where Philip's just the curious observer of different cultures. He's not objective about famine.  Yet he also made a point of saying he didn't have it as bad as Tuan.

It circles back to that same accusation Philip has (and Elizabeth too, although she won't openly say it)--that the people who are supposed to protect him hurt him instead.

39 minutes ago, Shriekingeel said:

This is by far the most ridiculous season of this increasingly silly show. The idea that Americans would hire a *Soviet* agronomist--the Soviets being the people who caused the worst ecological disaster in history, the destruction of the Aral Sea, while trying to grow cotton--to oversee a critical program is beyond belief. 

Can't an individual scientist still have something to say? Alexei seems to agree that the Soviet programs are stupid.

2 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

In the bowling alley scene, all I could think of is how exhausting it must be for P&E to pretend they don't understand Russian.  I speak a few other languages, although none as well as P&E have adopted English, and after being in a foreign country after a while, if I was given information while I was distracted, I sometimes wouldn't know what language it was given to me in.

It probably helps that the conversations in Russian are all very obviously private conversations. Even if they happened in English they'd be sort of whispered and everyone would pretend they didn't hear.

2 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Seeing the cowboy hat again this episode made me realize, it wasn't just about Philip becoming more anti-American because Elizabeth is. He dropped the American cowboy act because he was afraid for his son, even before he was sure he existed. And I wonder if him donning the hat again this episode is meant to suggest that he's entertaining more pro-American sentiment again now that he believes his son is safe. He certainly seemed more willing than Elizabeth to entertain the idea that the Soviets rather than the Americans were responsible for his people's privation.

But I don't think it was necessarily about being more or less pro-American, because Philip's actually more on board this season than he was last season. Suddenly he's killing again and suggesting Alexei be killed. He's still not swallowing the Soviet line, he's still asking relevant questions, but I think he can ask those questions as a person who loves Russia as well as someone who wants to be American. I think in both cases the job happens to be personal--killing his son vs. causing famine that he knows a bit about. The cowboy pose is him having fun with American stuff but I've always thought it was also tied to his own background. Lots of Russians like country music and here Philip confirmed that connection between his own background and American country.

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

I would love it if this show ends up being, not some stupid Paige-ending because she exposes them, but comes right back down to the marriage.  It's pretty obvious Philip, in spite of some reservations, would be done with this KGB gig if not for his love of Elizabeth.  At what point to you choose what your gut tells you over your marriage, or your true love?  I do believe Philip loves her, and I also believe the only reason he's still doing this is because of that love.  What about his kids though, and his love for them?  What about his soul, which is taking a beating for something he usually no longer believes in?

Personally, I think never if you're Philip. The kids grow up and have lives of their own. I don't think he'd sacrifice the kids for her sake, but then neither would she want the kids sacrificed. He's faced this choice multiple times on the show and each time it seems he chooses Elizabeth without having to think about it.

[ptuscadero]

58 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Wheat eater bug.

At first, I honestly thought he said, "They eat weeds," and I thought, well, that's not so bad after all!   hashtagdolt 

[zibnchy]

49 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

 

Anyone here not scream "MARTHA!" when we got that little clip?

I actually squeed AND clapped AND yelled
"MARTHA!". Scared the cat and possibly confused my neighbors.

[ptuscadero]

56 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

The song "More than This" takes me back to my HS/post-HS days more than just about any other song -- going out in Georgetown in the late 80s . . .sigh . . . I still love that song. 

I can relate. I immediately flashed back to Commander Salamander when I heard it.   ;-)

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Personally, I think never if you're Philip. The kids grow up and have lives of their own. I don't think he'd sacrifice the kids for her sake, but then neither would she want the kids sacrificed. He's faced this choice multiple times on the show and each time it seems he chooses Elizabeth without having to think about it.

So far he's choosing Elizabeth, but if they killed that scientist for nothing, he may finally wake up.  He has doubts in that hotel room, and she pulls out the sex, as she's trained to do.  That seemed pretty deliberate to me, it's what she'd do with a source that was having doubts.  Philip is smart enough to get that. 

I think Elizabeth is fanatic enough to sacrifice her kids, she might not like it, but she'd do it.  She's already put Paige in danger, and ruined her life.  Why?  For the glorious CAUSE, and because she CHOSE to do that, rather than give up the KGB.

Everyone has a breaking point, and Philip has been near that since the first episode.

Also, googling Midges research is kind of interesting, Australian or others.  It's been endless research by several countries, and that doesn't mean any of those countries are trying to poison grain.  The simplest answer is often the truth.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Umbelina

[zibnchy]

17 minutes ago, willco said:

Well, that seals it. Elizabeth is a sociopath or at least has the tendencies.

That seals it? Remember that time she needed a position to open up at that factory so she dropped a car on a guy? Or that nice old lady she made OD herself to death? Elizabeth has been pretty much sociopathic since day 1. Dont get me wrong, I love her, but she is the most terrifying character on TV right now (as far as shows I watch).

[shura]

32 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

it gave him a flashback (was that a communal room? Were those people his parents? Was the other kid related to him? Presumably he was the little kid we first saw since that was I assume his father before he died?

I just couldn't understand why they and the whole room were covered in dirt. People did clean up in the Soviet Union, communal apartment or not.

11 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

What about his kids though, and his love for them?

Yeah, I liked how he wondered whether they could just pack the kids up and go to Russia just like that, the way Alexei did to his family with his defection. I mean, if they decided to go back, would there be any other choice? Also, if Pasha and his mom are so unhappy with their current situation, couldn't they just walk up to the Soviet embassy, knock on the door and ask to be taken back? These are not Stalin's times anymore, you don't get executed because of what your relatives did. Besides, the Soviets could probably spin this the way they want, so there's propaganda value there.

[Shriekingeel]

20 minutes ago, willco said:

I've often wondered why Elizabeth fights so hard to defend Russia. I know that's her home country and all, but is it so terrible here in the U.S. ? Life is pretty nice compared to what she grew up with. Maybe they explained this sometime in the past, but I don't remember.

I always assumed that she was channeling her rage at being raped into the KGB into homicide. 

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, zibnchy said:

That seals it? Remember that time she needed a position to open up at that factory so she dropped a car on a guy? Or that nice old lady she made OD herself to death? Elizabeth has been pretty much sociopathic since day 1. Dont get me wrong, I love her, but she is the most terrifying character on TV right now (as far as shows I watch).

Honestly, both of those things had pretty valid reasons for happening.  In truth, neither would have though, but that's the conceit of the show, having Philip and Elizabeth do things CENTER would obviously delegate to others.  KGB had expert break in teams, one of them would have done that.  As for the murder, it was needed to open that spot, but there is no way Center would have risked Elizabeth doing that hit.  They have people for that, much less valuable than Elizabeth.

 

6 hours ago, shura said:

I just couldn't understand why they and the whole room were covered in dirt. People did clean up in the Soviet Union, communal apartment or not.

Yeah, I liked how he wondered whether they could just pack the kids up and go to Russia just like that, the way Alexei did to his family with his defection. I mean, if they decided to go back, would there be any other choice? Also, if Pasha and his mom are so unhappy with their current situation, couldn't they just walk up to the Soviet embassy, knock on the door and ask to be taken back? These are not Stalin's times anymore, you don't get executed because of what your relatives did. Besides, the Soviets could probably spin this the way they want, so there's propaganda value there.

 

I dunno about that.  My friend escaped in the late eighties, it wasn't even treason, just a straight up escape.  His family was severely punished, jobs (thus housing) taken away, and worse.  His father died a year later on the operating table, they only had aspirin for a heart operation.  (Dad was a doctor, as was my friend.)

Being the relative of someone who commited treason was not exactly going to make their already difficult lives there any better.

 

Quote

 

willco said:

I've often wondered why Elizabeth fights so hard to defend Russia. I know that's her home country and all, but is it so terrible here in the U.S. ? Life is pretty nice compared to what she grew up with. Maybe they explained this sometime in the past, but I don't remember.

 

Elizabeth is a true believer.  Much like the Pastor.  Some people are just born that way.  In addition to that, she was heavily shielded from realities, and heavily indoctrinated in "the cause" from a young age.  Her dad was a deserter, and she would never want to be a deserter like him. 

I forgot my biggest nitpick~  ETA, just rewatched it, and kudos to the writers, I was completely WRONG.  There was only one CIA guy.  Seeing double?

I'll leave my mistake, which follows, for clarity only.

I've been doing a lot of "real spy" research of that time, as some of you know.  It is HIGHLY improbable that TWO CIA agents were roaming around Moscow without being followed by the KGB.  One might possibly slip the intense scrutiny all Americans, especially "diplomats" and "spies" endured in Moscow, but there is no way in hell two of them did.  They WOULD be followed, and Russians would have spotted that brush pass in seconds.  Now they've contacted Oleg twice?  Yeah.  No.

Two was a stupid mistake and their CIA adviser should have spotted that one.  Moscow was considered the most difficult assignment of all, only the best were even sent there.  Stories about the ways they slipped, or didn't slip their followers are fascinating.  None of them involved two CIA agents.  Could it have happened?  Remotely possible, but barely.  One would have been far more realistic.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Umbelina
clarity

[TaurusRose]

Okay.  I'm not really engaged with this season yet. The murder of yet another innocent put Philip & Elizabeth on my shit list.  I felt physical loathing for both of them in that moment, to the point where I want to see them get what they so richly deserve. I wonder how Martha feels about her decision to sell out her country now that she's stuck in Russia and dealing with their idea of fabulous shopping.  I'm really, really bored with and not interested in Paige, Paige and Matthew, and Paige becoming whatever the fuck she's becoming.  The highlight for me were the Stan and Alderholt scenes.  I hope things get better soon.

Edited March 22, 2017 by taurusrose

[PinkRibbons]

Gasped so hard at seeing Martha it came out an inhuman croak!

Loved the little human touches throughout this episode, especially Philip checking on their lookout. And all the shots of food.

I watched the scene with Oleg at the grocery store and made the executive decision to possibly not ever show it to either of my parents. I know Oleg thinks he's doing good, but I was so on the side of the lady he was interviewing. She probably went home and shook for weeks afterward expecting to be arrested. Every single person in my family got hauled in front of the KGB at some point, because I guess they tried basically everyone to be an informer. I get terrified hearing about those "talks" second-hand and thirty years later. Honest to God I'm scared my parents won't sleep if they get reminded of this.

I love incidentally how Stan and Partner cannot catch one Russian willing to work with them. I could tell them myself that Russians are not generally disposed to be informers. I always get the impression that not even the people who used informers were impressed the kind of person who would be an informer. (And this too shows itself in later life; we had a problem with squatters in our neighborhood and I had to just stop telling my parents about it when I saw one and just call the police myself. Everything is "keep you head down and don't make trouble." Same thing at my work; it doesn't matter how shoddy or unacceptable another employee's work or demeanor is, you never tell the boss. And when the boss is breaking federal law, we don't contact anyone. And I don't admit to that actually happening. It's hypothetical.)

The subtitles tonight were so non literal it was maddening. Yes they got the point across, but man did they not match up so much of the time.

[MisterBluxom]

I was really hoping Phillip would speak up with a cowboy accent. That would have made the episode great.

As it was, it seemed to be a mildly disappointing episode. Very slow. Very few matters resolved.

Stan and his partner approaching those two Russians was typical of this episode. They wanted to talk to two people but those people just walked away. That was not very interesting or very good TV. It reminded me of what happened to Gaad. I wish they would have provided some details to help the viewers feel like they were a part of things.

Same goes for the Henry mystery. Couldn't they have provided some kind of detail more than just the usual, "Is Henry home?". "No, Henry's not home."

Killing that research scientist doen'st really count as "something happening". I'm sorry. But the more I think about it, the less interesting this episode seems to have been. I would have been so much happier if they would have just fed us a few details. Like Mischa. That was pretty stupid for him to just take out all his money and hand it to that guy. We never found out what the result would be.

This episode left me feeling frustrated. I would have really liked some more plot detail.

[MisterBluxom]

58 minutes ago, zibnchy said:

I actually squeed AND clapped AND yelled
"MARTHA!". Scared the cat and possibly confused my neighbors.

Martha looked horrible. She did not look at all happy. I would expect that if we see her again this season, it will be when she kills herself.

Can you imagine coming to a Russian grocery store after being used to American grocery stores?

[gwhh]

1 hour ago, willco said:Well, that seals it. Elizabeth is a sociopath or at least has the tendencies. I think it's a common opinion that she is more cold blooded than Phillip, so it's not that suprising. I say this because on one episode of Criminal Minds, they noted that a guy's girlfriend, every time he questioned their killing spree, she took his mind off those concerns by using sex to distract him. Which is kind of what Elizabeth did to Phillip. See, I get all of my psychological training from tv shows.

 

I've often wondered why Elizabeth fights so hard to defend Russia. I know that's her home country and all, but is it so terrible here in the U.S. ? Life is pretty nice compared to what she grew up with. Maybe they explained this sometime in the past, but I don't remember.

I think all the spy and killing get E engine all hot and revered up.  And she needs to blow off steam.   And she not using sex to manupliate Phillip 

Edited March 22, 2017 by gwhh

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, Tetraneutron said:

I think you mean HENRY is never on the show. I think Holly Taylor is doing a good job but her storyline isn't glamorous or exciting. 

If there's one complaint I have about the show it's the Russians are too free with the murder. It's not a moral thing. In the real world if you kill/disappear middle-class white, educated, connected Americans, the authorities will notice and the whole point is they aren't supposed to notice you. So the lab tech plus Betty, plus Larrick, plus Annelise, plus Amidor, plus of course Martha, it's too much.

 Also, I was wondering when the show would get to why the USSR can't make their own grain even though the Ukraine was the breadbasket of the region. I thought it would be Paige to bring it up, though, not Philip. 

Is it possible that grain land needs to "rest" every one year in seven? I had heard that old Biblical homily is actually true. The USSR would never pay any attention to anything from the Bible and so they probably insisted that farmers plant every inch of land every year and perhaps after many years, the land became depleted and failed to grow much.

The Ukraine was always known as the "breadbasket" of Asia. In the 1940s it apparently produced incredible amounts of wheat.

If there is any single reason why the USSR failed to be a successful country from an economic POV, I would guess it would be because the Party would insist that people do things to improve productivity that were hugely counter-productive. The USSR seemed completely incompetent when it came to basic services like a telephone service. You want a telephone? You have to get on a waiting list. You want it soon? You have to pay a bribe. If you pay the bribe, you can get the phone in just 2 or 3 years. Can you imagine?

[Sarah 103]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

And the entire internet screams a single word "Martha."

So true. 

2 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Not gonna lie, this was my exact reaction.

Mine too. 

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Oleg!  A bit shallow there, because I love just watching that man walk.  Aside from that, this is another story that interests me.  I feel so bad for him, guy did the right thing, and now he's screwed no matter what.  Run Oleg, tell mom and dad to go "on vacation" then meet them somewhere and start a new life, at least by the end of the show.

You make me feel so much better about having a bit of crush on Oleg. It feels kind of wrong, but I can't help it. Oleg is one of the characters I want to see survive and get whatever passes for a happy ending on this show. I just want him to be okay. 

1 hour ago, gwhh said:

You think they let Martha shop at the Soviet Union elite special shops?  You know the one for the party elite.   Hope she got a nice place.  It can't be any worst that her awful single woman place in DC. 

Could someone explain the elite special shops? How did they knew who to let in and who to keep out? Were there special cards? How did this system work? 

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Oleg is great. Poor guy never realized one day he would be Nina. That's a guy who's really in trouble.

How bad is his situation? Is he in too deep for his father's connections to rescue him? Have we seen his father on screen yet? I think his father is still alive. I wonder if we will see a father son conversation at some point this season. 

[Brian Cronin]

Who was the woman with Phillip and Elizabeth in Oklahoma?

[HollyG]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Anyone here not scream "MARTHA!" when we got that little clip?

No, I think we all screamed Martha! I wonder if TPTB gave us this little clip to let us know she's ok or will we be seeing more. Anyone know?

[dr pepper]

Martha!

[HollyG]

3 hours ago, JennyMominFL said:

I thought I saw Martha outside on a bench before Oleg went into the store.I wonder if it was her?

I went back and rewatched that scene. I don't think that was her. The woman on the bench didn't have on a scarf and her clothes were completely different.

[jjj]

I am part of the NeverHenry theory, so I was cracking up at the dialogue:  "Is Henry here?"  "No" -- and, that was that.  It had to be past 10:00 PM by then, but no curiosity about where their younger child might be, not from either parent.  In about two weeks the dialogue will be "Is Henry here?"  "Who?" 

I noticed they listed Alison Wright's name at the *end* of the episode, not the beginning, and I thank the producers for that, even though I do not look at the opening scroll of the guest actors' names, specifically because I don't want any surprises spoiled.  I watched the start of the second airing just to see if she was in a shot when Oleg walked into the store, and as you noted, there she was, in the background.  Nice reveal, show!  The Russian stores and apartments have to be such a shock to someone from suburban D.C.  I hope this is not a one-off to let us know they actually did deliver Martha to Russia.  How much time has elapsed since she left the States?  A few months?  I forget if there had been a time jump last season. 

2 minutes ago, HollyG said:

I went back and rewatched that scene. I don't think that was her. The woman on the bench didn't have on a scarf and her clothes were completely different.

No, that was not Martha on the bench -- but a tease for those of us looking for Martha!  The bench woman was very elegant and coifed. The real Martha was wearing a babuschka and hemline below her calves, clearly a contrast to her precise style of dressing in the U.S.  (Remember the ribbon in her hair on the last day?  Style to the end.) 

Edited March 22, 2017 by jjj

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, Brian Cronin said:

Who was the woman with Phillip and Elizabeth in Oklahoma?

I think we would have to guess that would be some other KGB agent. I don't think it's anyone we've seen before.

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Could someone explain the elite special shops? How did they knew who to let in and who to keep out? Were there special cards? How did this system work? 

 

I don't know but I'd guess they work in much the same way as illegal back room gambling rooms work in the West. Maybe people know a password? Maybe they are asked, "Who sent you?"

But one thing I'm positive does not happen is they aren't asked "Do you have any money?" Then, if they say they do they are told, "Show Me!". Then if they show that person their money, he will just grab it and run away.

Sorry. But I'm really disappointed in stupid Mischa. Strangely enough, it seems to me that many other good stories from our past begin in that way. The hero does something stupid and loses all their money. Remember Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? (BTW: I just realized the significance of that title. It stands for WTF!) Heh Heh.

Also Midnight Cowboy. I sure do wish I could remember more. There are many other stories from our past that have that scene near the beginning of the story.

Edited March 22, 2017 by MissBluxom

[RedHawk]

4 hours ago, taurusrose said:

Watching episode now and I just have to say Paige has the worst wallpaper ever.  Are they trying to make her crazy?

Two seasons ago I declared either that wallpaper had to go or I did. We're both still with the show. 

[Umbelina]

47 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I don't know but I'd guess they work in much the same way as illegal back room gambling rooms work in the West. Maybe people know a password? Maybe they are asked, "Who sent you?"

But one thing I'm positive does not happen is they aren't asked "Do you have any money?" Then, if they say they do they are told, "Show Me!". Then if they show that person their money, he will just grab it and run away.

Sorry. But I'm really disappointed in stupid Mischa. Strangely enough, it seems to me that many other good stories from our past begin in that way. The hero does something stupid and loses all their money. Remember Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? (BTW: I just realized the significance of that title. It stands for WTF!) Heh Heh.

Also Midnight Cowboy. I sure do wish I could remember more. There are many other stories from our past that have that scene near the beginning of the story.

I'd like to know more about the "speciality shops" as well.

Found one You Tubes about shopping there in the eighties.

 

1986 at 3:05 there is a girl who could have doubled for a young Elizabeth!

I don't see what choice Misha had.  It was his ONLY way out of Yugoslavia, and he may not had made it out of that apartment at all if he lied.  That guy would have taken his backpack and searched it anyway, stealing whatever he wanted, and probably not helped Misha at all if he'd lied.  I was encouraged that the dude didn't take all of the money, or kill Misha, that indicated to me at least, that he WAS going to help him escape.  Part of that money no doubt went to the people living in the apartment for hooking them up, which was also a pretty big risk, I was with the wife on that one, and she didn't like it one bit.

 

ETA, while looking I found a short film produced by the CIA in 1984 about the Soviet Union's portrayal of US citizens to their people.  Fascinating!  I put it in the "real life spy" thread for anyone interested.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Umbelina

[Bannon]

This thread just drives home for me that Martha's story was what held the show together from the beginning, and without it, the show just becomes a series of killings after hours in various business locations, for increasingly contrived reasons. Need some trauma for Paige? Have mom slice up a random D.C. mugger in a parking lot. Need yet another reminder that E is a ruthless killer? Have a corpse teeming with the Lassa virus unfathomably buried in Ft. Dietrich, to be dug up (with such precision!), with one of KGB corpse recovery specialists gettinf, yes, infected with the virus, so E can whack him. Need Phillip to get his hands wet again? Have the U.S. do agriweapons research in unsecured, unguarded Illinois greenhouses, leading to yet another late night office break-in, where yet another unlucky sap decides to do some work late at night, and gets clipped for his trouble.

Now, if, as I fear, they want to get really angsty, they'll reveal to E & P, who have suddenly become stupid, that the whole midge-a-palooza was research into pest control, so the latest sap was murdered for no reason. It'll actually be better to stick with the conceit that American agriweapons research is secured by $4 locks purchased at Ace Hardware, so I guess that's the best that can be hoped for at this point.

I almost think Martha's cameo was mockery. Jerky writers.

[Brian Cronin]

2 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I think we would have to guess that would be some other KGB agent. I don't think it's anyone we've seen before.

Okay, cool. Thanks! I was wondering if I had totally missed them introducing a new agent. So this was just her first appearance? Odd. They usually give new agents at least a cursory introduction, which is why I wasn't sure what her deal was.

[zibnchy]

54 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Okay, cool. Thanks! I was wondering if I had totally missed them introducing a new agent. So this was just her first appearance? Odd. They usually give new agents at least a cursory introduction, which is why I wasn't sure what her deal was.

It sort of felt to me like the camera lingered on her just a bit and I thought it was odd when Phillip came over to check on her. Has he done that so deliberately before? Maybe we'll see her again. Maybe not. I thought we'd see Kimmie again and she's probably of age by now.

Does Stan seem more smug this season? It seems like he constantly has that smirk on his face. I'm ready for Stan to die. But I want him to find out about Phillip and Elizabeth right before Elizabeth dispatches him.

More Martha!

[Umbelina]

Kimmie is not of age, she wasn't even 16 yet (8 months to go!) and not that much time has passed. 

[Trillian]

7 hours ago, Tetraneutron said:

Yes, with Zinaida the fake defector. I think I'm the only person not interested in Martha. Her story is over. She's alone and miserable in Russia. The life Gregory would rather kill himself than have. It's not showing us anything new. 

You're not the only one. I got a kick out of seeing Martha - and yelled like everyone else - but I'd be quite happy if that was the last glimpse of her. Yup, she's still alive, and wearing head scarves with what looked like very American clothes, but what else is there to say?  One thing I love about this show is that it's not propaganda for either side - it's hard to imagine how the adventures of Martha in Moscow wouldn't degenerate into that. Then again, as has been noted before, these writers can make the digging of a hole into a highly suspensive moment, so maybe they could do something with it. 

[Ellaria]

7 hours ago, taurusrose said:

Okay.  I'm not really engaged with this season yet. The murder of yet another innocent put Philip & Elizabeth on my shit list.  I felt physical loathing for both of them in that moment, to the point where I want to see them get what they so richly deserve. I wonder how Martha feels about her decision to sell out her country now that she's stuck in Russia and dealing with their idea of fabulous shopping.  I'm really, really bored with and not interested in Paige, Paige and Matthew, and Paige becoming whatever the fuck she's becoming.  The highlight for me were the Stan and Alderholt scenes.  I hope things get better soon.

I have to agree with this. It all seems to be more of the same. And that's not necessarily a bad thing...but, for me, it is because Paige seems to be front and center. Normal teenage angst never enhances a storyline. Couple that with "my parents are KGB and I can't wrap my head around it" issues and it makes me want to scream at the TV. I'm bored with Paige and her journey. I'm incredulous that P&E thought it would be a good idea to tell her about the supposed US plot to starve the Russian people.

I like Aderholt and think that he is a good partner for Stan. Seeing their adventures in the DC suburbs was entertaining. More, please and this time with some results.

I hope that Oleg's storyline starts to integrate better into the overall narrative. Yes, I know that its still early in the season bit I am impatient. Alternatively, I am more patient with Mischa's storyline because I can't quite figure out where it leads. I'm fairly sure that he isn't going to be ringing P&E's doorbell any time soon. (However, Henry would probably be thrilled to have a big brother.)

Speaking of Henry, his continued absence has to lead to something, right? It is kind of joke, at this point.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Ellaria Sand

[kokapetl]

If only Philip and Elizabeth wore ski masks when they break into places, then they wouldn't have to kill so many employees who show up unexpectedly at 2 am. 

[Chaos Theory]

46 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

If only Philip and Elizabeth wore ski masks when they break into places, then they wouldn't have to kill so many employees who show up unexpectedly at 2 am. 

People notice ski masks.  People tend to not notice white couples who don't look like themselves. That's why they wear wigs.  Even the couple Of pictures the FBI have of them don't look like them.

i am actually really enjoying the season.  Then again I always really enjoyed the family dynamics the best and I like the Jennings bringing Paige in more and more and her continued realistic reactions to their job.  She is asking teenagey American questions.  Questions a Russian would never even think to ask.

Then again Paige has always been someone who wants to make a difference. The whole Pastor Tim thing was less about religion and more about taking a stand.  Mathew is less interested in doing "something" which is kinda disheartening to Paige and might actually be what draws her closer to her parents the idea that they are actually doing something.  

The scene in the bowling ally was all kinds of awkward for a lot of reasons.  The husband loves America and hates Russia and has good reason for both but he is too loud and exuberant.  He probably should tone it down a lot regardless.  Still it was a good scene to show where everyone was.  His wife and son were deeply unhappy and yet he refused to see it.

Since we know Martha is in Russia I wouldn't mind Oleg's CIA story circling back to her.  The show needs to get her back to the US and the CIA finding is one way to do it.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Bannon]

39 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

If only Philip and Elizabeth wore ski masks when they break into places, then they wouldn't have to kill so many employees who show up unexpectedly at 2 am. 

Yeah, the group life insurance rates in the employee benefits packages for the businesses E & P visit must be skyrocketing.

[Kathemy]

Honestly just writing to say I loved this episode. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Milburn Stone]

5 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I think we would have to guess [the lookout woman in the car] would be some other KGB agent. I don't think it's anyone we've seen before.

I was more confused by the black guy with the binoculars, in a different car, who we saw in a shot immediately preceding hers. Was he also in Oklahoma, but not in the parking lot? If so, what was his role in the operation? If he was someone else entirely and somewhere else entirely, who and where?

[MisterBluxom]

20 minutes ago, Kathemy said:

Honestly just writing to say I loved this episode. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not trying to be a smart alec. Honest.

But I'd really like to know what you loved about it. I found it very slow and I may well have missed something or misunderstood something.

[ChromaKelly]

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Second watching.

I really feel like Elizabeth was 'working' Philip sexually in the cowboy hat scene, or at least she may be.

I would love it if this show ends up being, not some stupid Paige-ending because she exposes them, but comes right back down to the marriage.  It's pretty obvious Philip, in spite of some reservations, would be done with this KGB gig if not for his love of Elizabeth.  At what point to you choose what your gut tells you over your marriage, or your true love?  I do believe Philip loves her, and I also believe the only reason he's still doing this is because of that love.  What about his kids though, and his love for them?  What about his soul, which is taking a beating for something he usually no longer believes in?

Did he really hate that scientist for not knowing who he worked for, or was that just Philip convincing himself once again?  I mean, logically, most scientists don't know why they are doing some things, it's parsed out, they may know their parts of it.  Anyway, if, and I  think it will, this turns out to be something simple and "good" like trying to figure out how to stop midges from destroying wheat, I think Philip is going to feel even more guilt than he already does.  Add that to the pointlessness of it all (ala William) and will loving Elizabeth really be enough for him to continue?

I kind of hope not.

I thought that too, that E was working P. He starts questioning the Soviet Union and why can't we feed our own people, so E breaks out the cowboy hat and sexes him up, just like he's a mark.
Phillip hated that the scientist didn't know who he was working for so that made him have to kill him. If he knew, maybe he could have stayed alive and become a source.

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

1 hour ago, Kokapetl said:

If only Philip and Elizabeth wore ski masks when they break into places, then they wouldn't have to kill so many employees who show up unexpectedly at 2 am. 

People notice ski masks.  People tend to not notice white couples who don't look like themselves. That's why they wear wigs.  Even the couple Of pictures the FBI have of them don't look like them.

They don't have to wear ski masks in the act of breaking in (since they seem to be able to do that unnoticed), but it would be good to wear them once inside so that if someone does come in unexpectedly they don't have to kill him/her.

[kokapetl]

57 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

People notice ski masks.  People tend to not notice white couples who don't look like themselves. That's why they wear wigs.  Even the couple Of pictures the FBI have of them don't look like them.

i am actually really enjoying the season.  Then again I always really enjoyed the family dynamics the best and I like the Jennings bringing Paige in more and more and her continued realistic reactions to their job.  She is asking teenagey American questions.  Questions a Russian would never even think to ask.

Then again Paige has always been someone who wants to make a difference. The whole Pastor Tim thing was less about religion and more about taking a stand.  Mathew is less interested in doing "something" which is kinda disheartening to Paige and might actually be what draws her closer to her parents the idea that they are actually doing something.  

The scene in the bowling ally was all kinds of awkward for a lot of reasons.  The husband loves America and hates Russia and has good reason for both but he is too loud and exuberant.  He probably should tone it down a lot regardless.  Still it was a good scene to show where everyone was.  His wife and son were deeply unhappy and yet he refused to see it.

Since we know Martha is in Russia I wouldn't mind Oleg's CIA story circling back to her.  The show needs to get her back to the US and the CIA finding is one way to do it.

You'd notice the faces of a white couple who've broken into your business in the middle of the night. 

[MisterBluxom]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I was encouraged that the dude didn't take all of the money, or kill Misha, that indicated to me at least, that he WAS going to help him escape.  Part of that money no doubt went to the people living in the apartment for hooking them up, which was also a pretty big risk, I was with the wife on that one, and she didn't like it one bit.

That is a very observant conclusion.  Still, I would have hoped Misha would have left at least half of his money plus everything else in his backpack in some safe place (assuming that any place in Yugo could be safe). At the least, I would have hoped he would have hid half his cash under a rock somewhere if that was the best he could do.

But to show someone all your money when they ask to see your money .... well, I hope that will be a good life lesson for everyone who saw that. If that guy did that to me, I think that I'd try to find a way to pay him back. Not sure how. Especially since I would have lost my money due to my own stupidity.

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, Kokapetl said:

If only Philip and Elizabeth wore ski masks when they break into places, then they wouldn't have to kill so many employees who show up unexpectedly at 2 am. 

Interesting that most places didn't have as many security cameras back then as we do now.  If so, that body could not have disappeared unobserved.  So this guy will disappear with no one realizing where he went at first.

[Bannon]

Misha hasn't had enough screen time for me to have any interest in him as a character, so his tribulations in getting to the West don't hold a lot of interest for me. Obviously, he is going to have a central role in how this entire show is resolved, otherwise his arc is kind of a waste of time. We'll see where it goes.

[ChromaKelly]

I am questioning what Tuan is really up to. He at first spouts off how the US is going to destroy the Soviet Union and thinks Alexei is a traitor. Then he's critical of Pasha for being a whiny baby and not appreciating the food he has. Something is up.
Count me in as another shouting MARTHA! I'm wondering if she's going to meet Oleg and they will get to talking.
Elizabeth is going to screw Paige up big time. Talking about how you are never really honest with your partners and all that. She's going to have some issues.
I need more Aderholt. He's so cute and funny.
I wonder if Elizabeth actually loves Phillip. I think she would kill him if she felt she had to.
So far I'm really liking this season. 

[Kathemy]

28 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I'm not trying to be a smart alec. Honest.

But I'd really like to know what you loved about it. I found it very slow and I may well have missed something or misunderstood something.

I really liked the acting performances. I didn't think Paige was bad, I liked her scenes with E&P, I loved the acting of E&P, I loved getting to see Martha again, I loved Oleg's acting, I loved Misha's acting.

Nothing special really, it's mostly "why I love The Americans" over all.

[SunnyBeBe]

9 hours ago, gwhh said:

What was the name of the song on the radio in the motel room? 

OLD FLAME! (link below)  It was one of my favorite songs back in the day when I didn't even like country music.  It's a real classic.  That scene of of P & E standing there together.....probably my favorite of the series so far. I think those disguises are my favorite too. 

Martha overshadowed everything for me, (OH WHAT JOY!).  She may be frustrated with low inventory in the market, but, it's better than the alternative, imo. I hope we'll get the chance to see if relocating was REALLY worth it. 

IMO,  P &E are limited in their options  to avoid killing someone who walks in on their missions.  Because, even if the person can't identify them or give a description, JUST THE REPORT THAT THERE WAS A BREAK-IN is unacceptable. They don't want to tip their hand. Still.....man, that was brutal.  I know he was a goner as soon as he started that call.  

I have a few questions.  I'd be interested on your take on it.

1. Philip said that Paige can't handle ANY of this.  (Spy drama, I suppose.)  So, in the next sentence he proposes that they give her MORE stuff to deal with.  WHAT?  

2. I thought that Alexei shared part of his pain from childhood with P & E about his father's imprisonment and treatment.  It seemed to go right over their heads. I noticed they didn't share this story with Tuan.  This man sure is very vocal with his anti-Russian sentiments.  Wouldn't you think that he'd be a little afraid of that? If Russia is that horrible, wouldn't they send people to address him? Is he that naive?  

3. Who is the Russian that Stan questioned in the restroom and diner last night?  Is that Alexei or a comrade? They resemble, imo.  I can't find anything written about it today.   Who was in the car last week that went on the FBI escorted drive to the greenhouse?  

[Chaos Theory]

47 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

You'd notice the faces of a white couple who've broken into your business in the middle of the night. 

But that is the thing would you be able to describe them to an 80s sketch artist.  The lady in season 1 who's son got poisoned spent an entire day with them and drew a half assed picture that Stan couldn't recognize as his neighbors.   Two people in ski masks sneaking in and out of a building are far more likely to be noticed then two white people (even two shady white people) in an area they shouldn't be.  They were only in trouble once they were already inside.  Otherwise they could have easily talked their way out of any problem but if they had ski masks on then not so much.  Either way once inside they couldn't leave witnesses.

[shura]

53 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I was more confused by the black guy with the binoculars, in a different car, who we saw in a shot immediately preceding hers. Was he also in Oklahoma, but not in the parking lot? If so, what was his role in the operation? If he was someone else entirely and somewhere else entirely, who and where?

Maybe he was birdwatching.

8 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Could someone explain the elite special shops? How did they knew who to let in and who to keep out? Were there special cards? How did this system work?

I think they were special warehouses, rather than shops, that filled the party bosses' shopping lists. You couldn't just walk in from the street, you had to know where the place was, and your name had to be on the list. And I'm sure those party bosses didn't go shopping there themselves, they had people who did it for them. 

Now, the people who were not as important but still had some means and connections, would go to a regular store, head to the store manager and mention that so-and-so sent them. After which the store manager would hook them up with those tangerines and whatever else she happened to have on hand "under the counter." Maybe the shopper had to pay her extra, but often she did it so that so-and-so would owe her a favor as well and assist in obtaining other things she couldn't get in stores.

Which reminds me, what exactly was Oleg trying to get out of that store manager? Learn who brought the goods? Normally, they would be delivered absolutely legally, it's just that most of them would never find their way on the store shelves. And if anyone asked, the store could always claim that it sold out quickly.

9 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

I know Oleg thinks he's doing good, but I was so on the side of the lady he was interviewing. She probably went home and shook for weeks afterward expecting to be arrested. Every single person in my family got hauled in front of the KGB at some point, because I guess they tried basically everyone to be an informer.

He said he was OBKhSS, which Wikipedia translates beautifully as Department Against Misappropriation of Socialist Property. They weren't KGB, she wouldn't be scared of that. She might have been scared of going to jail for what she was actually doing, but apparently not enough to resist offering him a little bribe.

[benteen]

Quote

Elizabeth is going to screw Paige up big time. Talking about how you are never really honest with your partners and all that. She's going to have some issues.

She is going to screw her up and it looks like Philip has fully jumped aboard that train as well.

[SunnyBeBe]

6 minutes ago, benteen said:

She is going to screw her up and it looks like Philip has fully jumped aboard that train as well.

I was never on board with them fessing up to Paige, but, since they did it, their options to contain her now seem limited.  I don't get why they insist on giving her MORE intel when they are convinced that she's already overloaded, but, I do get why Elizabeth was trying to inspire her to keep some things private.  Her survival depends on it. Even  if P & E are the only ones who are arrested or killed, what does the future offer for her and Henry? Paige's insistence on secrets, noisy habits and whining that she had to know the truth haven't served her well.  It's unfortunate.