S05.E16: Checkmate

[Delphi]

On the comics side,  not that I'm ruled by that, Dinah is the least Black Canary that I've ever witnessed.  Rachel Skarsten did better as not BC telepathic supeeteen.  The actress is fine,  its the character that is garbage. 

 

Otherwise,  I enjoyed this more than most of season 5.  Ugh Tpalia,  don't be a bitch though,  your father was a douche.

I think Felicity might end up taking down helix by the end of the season. 

Also if Chase had taken Felicity this season would be over because everyone involved would be dead.   Oliver + Susan = nevahhhh.

I miss Thea, Nyssa and Roy,  anyone else interested in that show?

[Cleanqueen]

Dont forget the fact that Oliver saw multiple times the footage of the knife around her neck and still showed no urgency. All he had to do was hear felicity's wimper and he totally lost it. so yes there was a MASSIVE difference in how he reacted to Susan. Heck he showed more concern for Pike to me. Also when he found her he didn't even check to see if she was hurting just untied her. 

I took him dismissing Curtis as knowing that Prometheus didn't have her because he would have made it clear to him that he had felicity as that was  a bigger take than susan

[Trisha]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oliver is not a totally heartless bastard.  I mean to me, he was affected because it was her but not because he was all "MY LOVER IS IN DANGER. MUST SAVE HER NOW". I think he felt a responsiblity to make sure she was okay. I'm sure he cares about her but I don't think it's anywhere close to "LOVE"

Oh god. I totally didn't mean to imply Oliver's concern for her equals "LOVE". Nuh uh. They've done a terrible job with this relationship and I totally think they're working towards an Olicity rebuild and Susan is going to be a non-factor in a few episodes. But someone asked if Oliver seemed like he didn't care about her at all, and I don't think that's the case. 

As hopeful as I am, I'm not watching with Olicity blinders. In the same scene I was referring to, Oliver didn't seem at all concerned about Felicity being MIA. That was WEIRD. They may be leading towards a rebuild, but they're not totally there yet. That's all I meant. Susan is still the worst, and Oliver's relationship with her/reactions to her still remain nonsensical so I'm hoping this whole storyline goes away soon and we can just forget it ever happened! 

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I took him dismissing Curtis as knowing that Prometheus didn't have her because he would have made it clear to him that he had felicity as that was  a bigger take than susan

Imagine if Chase had also taken Felicity and planned to keep that quiet until after they rescued Susan, sort of a "you were so busy focusing on her that you didn't realize..." I just think it was stupid to have no one worried that her phone was off when she hadn't told anyone anything about where she was going. 

[Cleanqueen]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

Imagine if Chase had also taken Felicity and planned to keep that quiet until after they rescued Susan, sort of a "you were so busy focusing on her that you didn't realize..." I just think it was stupid to have no one worried that her phone was off when she hadn't told anyone anything about where she was going. 

yeah and we wouldn't have an episode if he did indeed take her...I think Chase has written the script for how everything will go down. Taking felicity that early was probably not a part of the script. And yeah it's not like she was missing a week unlike someone else, I am sure they weren't overly worried because it had only been several hours.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, Trisha said:

 In the same scene I was referring to, Oliver didn't seem at all concerned about Felicity being MIA

I had a different read on that. I think Oliver actually was TRYING to not be worried about Felicity. He was overcompensating IMO.

[thuganomics85]

I guess it wouldn't be a season of Arrow if there wasn't at least one episode where Oliver is left looking flummoxed in a parking lot.  Oh, Ollie, you really can be slow on the uptake at times!

A solid improvement over the past few episodes, mainly due to Chase finally be out on the open, and everyone being onto him, but powerless to stop him.  Josh Segarra has been solid before this, but he was unleashed tonight, and it was entertaining as hell watching every smirk, sneer, and speech, where he honestly was right almost all the time.  Chase is just way ahead of Oliver at this point, that it is almost funny.  Actually, it is funny.  Hopefully they will keep this going, and not screw up a fun antagonist.  Still miffed over what they did to Slade.

Was surprised over the Talia twist.  Chase was pupil of hers, and she is down with him because she is pissed that Oliver killed Ra's (he was unaware that she was an Al Ghul this entire time.)  Not exactly thrilled about the motivation since I found Ra's dull as hell, but I guess I can see why Talia wanted revenge, even if she did agree with his methods.  I did laugh at Oliver's claim that he was honorable.  Sure, thing, Oliver.  Hopefully whenever Katrina Law gets time, Nyssa will come back and be all "A, fake husband?  You remember the time he tried to destroy the city and forced me to marry you, even though you are totally not my type?  Not exactly honorable there!"

At least they saved Susan, which, whatever.  I'm more sadden over Pike being comatose, compared to her plight.

It was so obvious that Chase was just going to kill his wife.  Really, I expected better of Oliver and Diggle.  Well, I expected better of Diggle.

Enjoying Felicity's slight turn to the darkside with Helix, even though I know it will likely end badly for her.  Kojo is totally bad news, I suspect.

Flashbacks weren't that surprising, since it is obvious that Anatoly is still going to be around.  I did enjoy the two of them bonding with Viktor, as the only Bratva guys against Gregor.

The newbies.... were there, I guess.  At this point, Curtis' tech is doing more then Curtis himself.

Great scenes with Oliver/Felicity and Oliver/Diggle.  It was like Stephen Amell was suddenly enjoying himself again.

[catrice2]

Gosh, I have deleted so many episodes without watching this year, or fast forwarded that I am lost. I called Chase as a bad guy the minute he came on the scene.  This show has lost the element of surprise and it has too many people in the Arrowcave.  I don't know what Felicity is into, but it looks stupid. 

[calliope1975]

7 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Was surprised over the Talia twist.  Chase was pupil of hers, and she is down with him because she is pissed that Oliver killed Ra's (he was unaware that she was an Al Ghul this entire time.)  Not exactly thrilled about the motivation since I found Ra's dull as hell, but I guess I can see why Talia wanted revenge, even if she did agree with his methods.  I did laugh at Oliver's claim that he was honorable.  Sure, thing, Oliver.  Hopefully whenever Katrina Law gets time, Nyssa will come back and be all "A, fake husband?  You remember the time he tried to destroy the city and forced me to marry you, even though you are totally not my type?  Not exactly honorable there!"

I would love Nyssa to pop up towards the end of the season to put her sister in check. Like, Dad made me marry a straight guy. He also tried to pass his title onto this white dude. It was not cool. Dad deserved to die. 

[Mellowyellow]

OMG I just managed to watch that tiny clip!!!! Why is he heart eyeing all over the place *squeals like a maniac*

[BkWurm1]

31 minutes ago, Trisha said:

As hopeful as I am, I'm not watching with Olicity blinders. In the same scene I was referring to, Oliver didn't seem at all concerned about Felicity being MIA. That was WEIRD. They may be leading towards a rebuild, but they're not totally there yet. That's all I meant. Susan is still the worst, and Oliver's relationship with her/reactions to her still remain nonsensical so I'm hoping this whole storyline goes away soon and we can just forget it ever happened! 

 

33 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I took him dismissing Curtis as knowing that Prometheus didn't have her because he would have made it clear to him that he had felicity as that was  a bigger take than susan

 

27 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Imagine if Chase had also taken Felicity and planned to keep that quiet until after they rescued Susan, sort of a "you were so busy focusing on her that you didn't realize..." I just think it was stupid to have no one worried that her phone was off when she hadn't told anyone anything about where she was going. 

I do think in show they were going with Oliver was sure if Felicity had been in any danger, Chase would have lorded it over him, so I agree that he had a reason for believing that she was safe.  But it's also true that he didn't know for sure that she was safe.  But at that same time, the vibe I got from him was that he trusted that she could take care of herself...even though I don't really know what would justify that feeling when such a big enemy had been right under their noses the whole time.  

Anyway. Plot hole but not one that I think actually lessens Oliver's caring for Felicity.  

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

OMG I just managed to watch that tiny clip!!!! Why is he heart eyeing all over the place *squeals like a maniac*

Funny thing is I don't know why either.  It doesn't really fit the moment.  Either Oliver or SA was just enjoying himself and couldn't help it.  I honestly don't know which, lol.  

[Delphi]

19 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I would love Nyssa to pop up towards the end of the season to put her sister in check. Like, Dad made me marry a straight guy. He also tried to pass his title onto this white dude. It was not cool. Dad deserved to die. 

Yeah,  that's exactly what I wanted to happen.   In the first scene I wanted Ollie to pull out his phone and be like "Nyssa,  your sis be Cray, handle this. "

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, Delphi said:

Yeah,  that's exactly what I wanted to happen.   In the first scene I wanted Ollie to pull out his phone and be like "Nyssa,  your sis be Cray, handle this. "

Crap, now I want that.  Bad.

 "Hello sister."

[Mellowyellow]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

Funny thing is I don't know why either.  It doesn't really fit the moment.  Either Oliver or SA was just enjoying himself and couldn't help it.  I honestly don't know which, lol.  

Maybe Oliver just thought she was adorable after a harrowing day/week. Especially that comment about the tongue lashing in private!

*Squeals like a banshee some more*

[Chaser]

It's really kind of funny if you think about Oliver ready to have this deep conversation with Felicity right then. That's a very long, involved heart to heart and he's ready to ignore Reporters situation to have it.

Bless you Oliver.

[Hiveminder]

4 minutes ago, Delphi said:

Yeah,  that's exactly what I wanted to happen.   In the first scene I wanted Ollie to pull out his phone and be like "Nyssa,  your sis be Cray, handle this. "

Would Nyssa and Talia even know each other? Since Malcolm met Nyssa when she was a child and Talia has used the magic hot springs to stay young there must be a pretty big age gap, and I got the impression that Talia has been away from the LOA for a pretty long time.

45 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Imagine if Chase had also taken Felicity and planned to keep that quiet until after they rescued Susan, sort of a "you were so busy focusing on her that you didn't realize..." I just think it was stupid to have no one worried that her phone was off when she hadn't told anyone anything about where she was going. 

It's hard to tell what can be attributed to actual character reasons and what can be attributed to lazy writing. 

[wonderwall]

2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

 I don't know what Felicity is into, but it looks stupid. 

It's called Helix. An organization she joined after everything she's been through. The reason why she joined is because Helix has a lot of power and maybe she could make a difference with them like she did with Pandora (A USB filled with information on a lot of bad guys Helix used to tease her into joining them and it looked like they succeeded). They pretty much capitalized on Felicity's emotional state and it worked. 

Edited March 16, 2017 by wonderwall

[BkWurm1]

Rewatching the episode and realized that while I managed not to buy the same glasses as Felicity, I by happenstance did end up with the exact same glasses as Kojo, her tour guide.  

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

IDK - he seemed pretty uncaring to me. There didn't seem to be any urgency on his part to find her at all. And when he finally did find her, he didn't seem to be relieved or anything which I would have expected despite the situation with Prometheus since Susan is still presumably his girlfriend and not some rando hostage.

He knew Prometheus wouldn't kill Susan because the game is to torture Oliver, not kill.  I think he even said so.  So he was concerned for Susan but not worried that Chase wold kill her.  Of course, that was before he knew that Chase would kill his own wife.

I like that Oliver listed Diggle and Felicity as people Chase would go after to get to him. I was hoping that Thea was going to be #3 but it turned out to be the spawn. Are we never going to get rid of that kid? And how would Chase now where he is if even Oliver doesn't?

Now I'm very intrigued as to just what Helix's long term goal is. There has to be a point to hacking the NSA drone.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

He knew Prometheus wouldn't kill Susan because the game is to torture Oliver, not kill.  I think he even said so.  So he was concerned for Susan but not worried that Chase wold kill her.  Of course, that was before he knew that Chase would kill his own wife.

He knew Chase wouldn't kill her, but she was still being held against her will and being threatened. Seems like even if he ultimately knew she wouldn't die he'd still want to get her out of that kind of situation as quickly as possible, haha. 

[statsgirl]

How long was Susan held for?  Oliver went to the mysterious mountains, fought, found out who Prometheus is and got back again and all that time Susan was held in the elevator? Did none of her friends notice that she was missing?  Her boss and co-workers since she had her job back now?  It seems like no one cared very much about her.

[Karlophe]

I knew the moment Oliver floated using the wife against him that Adrian would murder her, and that both Oliver and Diggle didn't see it coming pissed me off more than I think the writers intended. Dig for both his experience in dangerous and unpredictable situations and his long tack record of keeping a clear head when facing them, and Oliver, at the very least, for knowing the darkness in people better than almost anyone. By all rights they both should have known better, and I don't care if I didn't know her, I hate seeing yet another innocent woman die. 

On that note, Oliver also might have paid a bit more attention to Talia. The woman made it clear to you that she knew you'd killed her Father and was not pleased. And you just...leave? She trained the man whose life mission is to destroy you! What exactly did you think would happen?

And Curtis. I'll admit, he gave me a laugh tonight. 

"Every horror movie ever has basically said that you do not go upstairs at a creepy serial killers mother's house!" 

You can't talk about Barry Allen that way...! 

[BkWurm1]

Other new observations I missed during the live chat:  (This is going to get a little long)

Hmm.  I don't think AD has been drugging Oliver after all.  He asks if Oliver is tired  (and I'm paraphrasing a bit) or is it that you've just been asleep the whole time.  And he says it in front of the city council people so it's kind of an odd thing to say.  Maybe meant to imply DA Chase thinks Mayor Queen was passed out somewhere?  

About Oliver being worried about Susan or not.  The big focus when he first finds out and goes back to the Bunker seems actually to be they cant' go after Prometheus until she's found, so her rescue is in part just about being able to tackle the real problem.  

And Oliver despite not thinking Chase is after Felicity (to which Diggle says "for now") does tell Curtis to keep looking for her and to GPS her phone if he has to.  So he's less sanguine than I'd previously thought.

 I also liked how he asked the first time "Where's Felicity?" almost like he was looking for a lifeline.  That may be the shipper in me though, ;)

There's also a small moment in that scene that I wonder might come up later between Oliver and Tinah.  She wants to go to the police and he and Quentin point out with what proof.  She doesn't fight the order to keep it to themselves but she looks like she wants to. It should be moot since Oliver later gives Pike info but she did seem to want to go a different way and they hinted that Prometheus would try to get to her.  I don't think he will, but maybe that will be set up for something in the future.  Or maybe the actress overplayed a nothing moment, lol.     

Funny how when Quentin and Rene confront Chase at City Hall, only Quentin knows what the plan is (to alert Oliver and Diggle where Chase is) and has to explain what they were doing to Rene. Yup, these Noobs are pointless.  

Still don't know why Oliver as Mayor set up a time limit for the GA to turn himself in (or they'd shoot him on sight.)  Why the deadline?  The answer will be PLOT but still, why would OLIVER do it?  

So this time around I noticed that Pike got to ask someone to look into Simon Morison before he got all stabbed so someone in the precinct is looking into him at least. Totally blind, but if they find a picture I think they might recognize him.

So this thing about Oliver killing again will be killing himself.  Does that mean he's back to the no killing rule from here out?  Or is the sign of victory Oliver being fine with occasionally killing?  At the end, Oliver says that yes he can kill Chase (only for oops, arrow from Talia)

Just noticed that in Oliver's tantrum in the Bunker he wisely stayed away from any computers.  He took out a screen but no important hardware. Oliver's not THAT dumb at least.  Ha,ha.  

"What is thing you are doing with your voice?"  I really love this line and love it even more I think for the imperfect English.

Curtis and Felicity eating take out and hacking in front of the fire.  It's funny that Felicity seems to save her hard core hacking for the loft.  In other news, the loft still exists.  

About the conversation between Oliver and Diggle where Oliver wonders if he's allowed to be human and have weaknesses (I know, kill me now).  He then goes from that to having Diggle go pick up Doris because Oliver thinks he needs to play by Prometheus's rules and she's someone that makes HIM vulnerable.  Of course Chase's answer is to kill her, thus ending the vulnerability.  So since that ended super badly, I'm hopeful that Oliver will realize that making himself invulnerable by getting rid of all his weaknesses is something only a psycho would do.

That said, not convinced we don't first have to face an Oliver convinced he has to do it alone, but hopeful at some point someone will yank the idiot back again.  Because If this season ends with Oliver convinced he has to be alone and be only the GA, I will lose it.  

Huh, I forgot how easy it was for Oliver to find Susan.  They determine all the heat signatures are explosives and Oliver is just walking down the hallway and the elevator door opens and there she is.  

Where she cries loudly (sigh) "Oliver!"  He then does kneel down and ask if she's ok.  So not totally unconcerned, but then the elevator takes him I think to the basement and he explains that Chase is controlling the elevator and when the door opens he tells her to "take the elevator upstairs" and to get out of the building.  I'm laughing at how unconcerned he is about Chase controlling the elevator anymore. 

He is of course certain that Susan was only there to lure him in, to which I have to agree.  Yup, Susan is only an unimportant pawn in this game of chess.  

Um, Oliver has Diggle bring Doris inside a building they thought was going to blow up in three minutes.  I was ok with them bringing her to Chase to throw him off his game assuming he'd never hurt her, but damn, the building was going to blow up.  That's too much of a risk right there.  That's not ok.  

Felicity is noticeably freaking out over Oliver being missing.  A nice blink and it's gone moment between her and Dinah.  Also like that in spite the fact that Helix is going to be evil, that Felicity hacking Homeland impressed the crew.  Always appreciate admirers.  

I'm sad that the next episode will be fb heavy.  I could have really enjoyed a whole episode of Chase just playing mind games on Oliver.  

Do we have a break after next week's episode or the one after that?  

Edited March 16, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Velocity23]

after 5x18 i would presume.

[BkWurm1]

15 minutes ago, Karlophe said:

And Curtis. I'll admit, he gave me a laugh tonight. 

"Every horror movie ever has basically said that you do not go upstairs at a creepy serial killers mother's house!" 

You can't talk about Barry Allen that way...! 

Hahahahahahaha!

[SleepDeprived]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

How long was Susan held for?  Oliver went to the mysterious mountains, fought, found out who Prometheus is and got back again and all that time Susan was held in the elevator? Did none of her friends notice that she was missing?  Her boss and co-workers since she had her job back now?  It seems like no one cared very much about her.

Story of Susie's whole existence on Arrow, tbh.

Gotta wonder if Oliver would've ever noticed that Susie was missing if it had already been a few days and he didn't know anything 'til Chase actually outed the hostage-taking. Haah! And pretty much leaving her on her own in the elevator, with just a perfunctory question to ask if she's okay, and then simply telling her to get the heck out. Double haah! Yep, sure, Oliver totes went "all in" with Susan. That Wendy Mericle sure is a funny EP.

Do SC Mayors earn huge paychecks? If not, listen, Oliver, you're not that rich anymore. Stop breaking shit in the bunker. That was a really nice flatscreen tv! And those glass casings and metal weapon stands were not cheap! Felicity's stock options at Palmer Tech can't keep bankrolling your tantrums, okay?!

The Olicity vibes in this episode was enough that I was pretty content. Choosing to focus on discussing how worried Oliver is about whatever Felicity is doing that she won't tell him about instead of the problem at hand? Yeah, I see those heart eyes and affectionate smiles, you two! Oliver's been kidnapped by Prommy, eh? Let's cut to Felicity staring at his GA costume's mannequin and her worried expression. Girl will absolutely do all the illegal things that Helix and Abigail Hobbs Kojo want her to do so she can get her Oliver back! Which is not a good thing, per se, because this dark arc of hers can only end in something terrible but still, there are feels, man.

And since I haven't said it recently, I'm super excited by Felicity's storyline! Finding out that Helix has more big brother capabilities than the NSA, hacking the DHS drones for this shady organization, not knowing why exactly these hackers are doing what they do, not even knowing who exactly is running the show over there, then agreeing to do more shady/illegal things for them... This has some real good story and character development potential.

Spoiler

I wonder if Helix will turn out to be the set-up for season 6's big bad, instead of possibly linked/another manipulation of Prometheus to bring Oliver down via corrupting his loved ones? Then again, Prommy did say he was 10 moves ahead of Oliver so maybe I'll just roll with his omnipresence if Helix gets linked to him, down the line.

I'm incredibly intrigued by notreally!Chase. Dude is so set on his revenge, he even killed his own wife. The brawl between him and Oliver was great! Really good fight choreo there. JS is definitely turning out to be fantastic, so far, as this season's big bad, especially now that Team GA knows who he is. Is it terrible of me that every time Chase kept saying if he didn't make it back to Susie then she would die, I was sorta rooting for Chase to get into a car accident or something? That huge dent on the left fender of his car already proves he's a bad driver, anyway, why couldn't he have accidentally hit something that delayed his return! Also, his hotness level kind of kept going up the crazier he acted. I can't believe I'm finding this psychopath more and more attractive, the smirkier and evil-whisphery he gets. Stop it, Self!

Edited March 16, 2017 by SleepDeprived
Checked out the spoiler spec thread. Realized that I should probably spoiler bar since spec might turn out to be true.

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, SleepDeprived said:

Also, his hotness level kind of kept going up the crazier he acted. I can't believe I'm finding this psychopath more and more attractive, the smirkier and evil-whisphery he gets. Stop it, Sel

Well, mark you down...

[SleepDeprived]

21 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Well, mark you down...

Listen! I didn't mean to keep finding him hotter, the nuttier he got, okay?! It's all Josh Segarra's fault! I just ended up kinda going...

[bijoux]

Really entertaining episode. Will actually watch again. Chase is super awesome and creepy as he should be. Good call on revealing his identity and have him facce off with Oliver and everyone else in the open.

5 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

I wanted to slap Talia. Oh, your crazy, murdering father who wanted Oliver to murder an entire city filled with other people's fathers is dead? I feel so sorry for you. 

Maybe the distance made the heart grow fonder? Nyssa certainly had a much clearer grasp of who Ra's was.

4 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Anatoly is the best, from his Robin Hood comment to his line about Oliver's voice. 

Add to that sadly and resignedly calling Oliver stupid (glupi). Hee. It was awesome. The flashbacks didn't really bring much, to be honest, but I enjoyed Anatoli just being Anatoli, and BAMFing when he entered that arena. The most important development is really that Anatoli knows and has known the whole time that Oliver is the Hood/Arrow/Green Arrow. No way he hadn't heard about this guy from the SC chapter and connected him to Oliver after this. 

In their attempt to make Tinah into a new(er) BC did they actually give her Laurel's pants? I could swear I saw her wearing those exact same ripped black jeans at one point or another.

[tangerine95]

It's so weird how after a episode I hate and a clifhanger that makes me dread the next episode, I actually really liked this one. It happened after 5. 09 and now again. 

Probably because the Susan stuff wasn't about her or her relationship with Oliver at all and she was basically a plot device to show how crazy Chase is. I agree that Oliver seemed way less urgent and emotional about it than I expected from the way they made it sound in interviews. He cared but it wasn't really anything more than I would expect if Chase kidnapped any innocent person and nothing how we saw him react anytime Felicity or Thea were in danger so I was okay with it. It just sucks that I didn't care at all if they save her so any sense of urgency falls flat there. 

The Felicity stuff was great. I like how she's getting deeper into the helix stuff and basically knows what she's doing isn't good for her but will do anything to help the team and Oliver. Helix is way bigger than I thought and with all the emphasis on how illegal the stuff she's doing for them is, I'm totally expecting it to end with Felicity being arrested or having to go on the run or something like that. I liked the olicity scene especially since SA dropped the constipated robot act and emoted but it was so sad how Oliver is thinking Felicity just doesn't trust him enough to want to talk to him and Felicity is suprised he cares and worries about her. They seriously need to really talk without all this distance and weird ignoring of their issues and feelings they've been doing all season. 

The Diggle Oliver stuff was good too. Oliver wondering for the 100th time can he be more than the arrow and care about people is annoying but at least by the end he listened to Digg which used to take him like a whole season. And we got at least some insight into why he even dated Susan and loneliness kinda works for me tbh tho he really couldn't have chosen much worse than Susan. 

Chase is the best villain they had since Slade imo. His backstory is kinda random and underwhelming but he's really entertaining and the actor is doing a great job with it. 

[bijoux]

I thought you didn't get cold, Oliver. Really hope Barry gets a chance to see him bundled up and rag on him a bit. :)

[apinknightmare]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

He asks if Oliver is tired  (and I'm paraphrasing a bit) or is it that you've just been asleep the whole time.  And he says it in front of the city council people so it's kind of an odd thing to say.  Maybe meant to imply DA Chase thinks Mayor Queen was passed out somewhere?

I think Chase was taunting Oliver since he's been in front of his nose this whole time, orchestrating and maneuvering with Oliver none the wiser. Oliver's been "sleeping on him" as the youths say. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

7 hours ago, Trisha said:

 

As hopeful as I am, I'm not watching with Olicity blinders. In the same scene I was referring to, Oliver didn't seem at all concerned about Felicity being MIA. That was WEIRD. 

It was weird. I think he thought she was doing what she has been doing in secret this whole time since he asks her about it the first chance he gets but still when you know a crazy guy that wants to make you suffer is on the loose and a person important to you isn't answering your calls it makes sense to worry. Not the first weird reaction they wrote this season anyway, LOL.

[Mellowyellow]

Oohh I finally found a way to watch it! Couldn't skip to only Felicity so had to watch the whole thing. 

The scene where he said they had to find Susan, and dismissed that Prommy (thanks to @Morrigan2575 for the fabulous nickname) had Felicity. I thought that scene was really open to interpretation. You could argue that he was shaken Susan got taken.

However to me (and I'm a mad shipper so this is through mad shipper eyes) it sounded more like he was consoling himself "Prommy has Susan, Prommy 100% does not have Felicity."

He dismisses the idea that Prommy has Felicity, says they need to find Susan cuz Prommy has her, then tells Curtis to track Felicity’s phone. Looked to me like he preferred to focus on Susan being the target because he couldnt deal with the thought of Felicity being the target. 

Which leads me to my favourite bit:

*Oliver watches vid of Pantry Moth being tortured, says Prommy won't kill her. 

*Felicity whirls in and he's all "I'm worried about you so let's have chat about your feelings and what you've been up to my love," then shoots heart eyes all over the place.

OMG JUST GET TOGETHER, HAVE OLICITY BABIES AND END THIS NONSENSE YOU TWO!!!!!!!

Edited March 16, 2017 by Mellowyellow
mistakes

[millennium]

10 hours ago, Sunshine said:

Talia told Oliver Adrian came to her 2 years ago looking for training.  He knew all about Oliver including the fact that he had killed Ra's.  That's why Talia trained him.

Can Oliver just change his name to Bruce Wayne and be done with it?   Back in Season One I never would have dreamed that this show, which had so much potential, would spend season after season plagiarizing Batman and in the process turn Green Arrow into a cheap television stand-in for the Caped Crusader.   What a gross disservice to both characters.

[Trisha]

59 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

It was weird. I think he thought she was doing what she has been doing in secret this whole time since he asks her about it the first chance he gets but still when you know a crazy guy that wants to make you suffer is on the loose and a person important to you isn't answering your calls it makes sense to worry. Not the first weird reaction they wrote this season anyway, LOL.

Yup. The plot needed Oliver to not be worried about her at that moment, so he wasn't. I think they made up for it in the later scene (and I guess you could headcanon it that he was internally frantic), but it felt like a weird reaction. Oliver seems to be required to have at least one of those every episode lately...

[Primetimer]

Oliver needs more people to fight with!

View the full article

[Chicago Redshirt]

I'm disappointed that an episode entitled "Checkmate" was not in fact about the DCU agency Checkmate, nor involved a metaphorical checkmate, because even though Queen was taken by queen (Talia), it's obvious that Ollie still has moves left.

I'm also disappointed that Talia went the passive-aggressive route of training Chase. If she was upset over Ollie killing her dad, why not take him out herself, or send some of the numerous already-trained students she presumably had. For that matter, how did Samuel Morrison find Talia in the first place?

Does anyone know if the flashback structure will go away next season? I don't think there's been one I've cared about since the Slade era.

[GirlvsTV]

So, I decided to watch because it seemed like people were enjoying the ep, but I quit after Oliver trashed the bunker. This episode taught me I dislike 'Poor Me / Need Another Pep Talk' Oliver even more than 'Total Moron' Oliver. I just don't have the patience to sit through this again. I didn't really care that he was upset or that bad stuff was happening to him. It reminded me how angry I'd been on Oliver's behalf when Lance hit him in the police van in s3 and taunted him about the people he'd hurt - except when Chase was doing it in this ep I wasn't bothered, I was bored. I am void and apathy when it comes to Oliver at this point.

Felicity's stuff is interesting, but there wasn't enough of it. I want Helix to be, like, a digital LOA and Felicity can be its Ras. I'd watch that show.

JS was phenomenal as Eviiil Chase. Great performance, but at the end of the day his whole shtick is pretty much a retread of Slade with a pinch of Dark Archer and I've watched that already. Though, I will say, I'd have loved to see the more intelligent Oliver of earlier seasons up against this villain. As it is, the match-up feels really uneven as Chase has been cleverly manipulating everyone while Oliver's been off in the corner eating paste with Susan.

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I think Chase was taunting Oliver since he's been in front of his nose this whole time, orchestrating and maneuvering with Oliver none the wiser. Oliver's been "sleeping on him" as the youths say. 

Oh I know what he really meant, but since he said it in front of those not in the know, I wondered what he expected them to think he meant. Not convoluted or anything  :D

54 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

 

Does anyone know if the flashback structure will go away next season? I don't think there's been one I've cared about since the Slade era.

Yes the flashback structure will go away next season, unless they want to use it for an individual story.  They've promised.

Quote

I'm disappointed that an episode entitled "Checkmate" was not in fact about the DCU agency Checkmate, nor involved a metaphorical checkmate, because even though Queen was taken by queen (Talia), it's obvious that Ollie still has moves left.

MG took to Twitter when the title first came out to say it had nothing to do with the DCU agency Checkmate, but I get your frustration.

[Bats27]

Man, Talia and Prometheus/Adrian were well cast. In her brief appearances this episode, Talia projected more menace and command than Ra's did in an entire season. And good lord, Adrian is nailing that Slade/Ravager-style supreme confidence and barely-contained hostility

[Lady Calypso]

I feel like this is the beginning of the end for me in terms of watching this show. I couldn't really muster up many feelings and was bored by most of it. The only interesting parts were with Felicity and some scenes with Chase, but I don't trust them to follow through with Helix in the way that makes it about Felicity. 

I have no doubt Oliver cares about Susan. I just don't give a damn, and I don't know why they're putting this much focus on a failed romance that hasn't worked in several episodes. It was nice to have an Olicity moment, but I'm feeling very underwhelmed by them. They've barely had scenes together this season, and now they seem to be given more. At least they're putting the recruits on the backburner after being forced to watch them take over for 12+ episodes. 

Chase is great and I like how Segarra looks like he's finally having a blast, as does Amell now, but I'm not sure where they are taking this. I'm sure the final battle will be revolving around Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle. I can see him taking both of them and forcing Oliver to make a choice of who to save. This show hasn't really done something like this, not since Moira's death. 

Having Talia show up to be on Chase's side was a bit surprising, but I'm tired of all this "you killed my father. Prepare to die", especially since Talia seems to only be doing this because "Ra's is my father", not even that she liked the man. It seems superficial. I'm now waiting for Nyssa to show up and kick her sister's ass.  

Maybe this episode deserves another rewatch. Maybe I'm not giving it enough credit here. 

[GirlvsTV]

24 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Maybe this episode deserves another rewatch. Maybe I'm not giving it enough credit here. 

Nah. I think you're giving it the right amount of credit : )

[calliope1975]

I think that when Dig told Oliver that he got involved with Snoozan because he was lonely, somewhere in Oliver's tiny brain, he realized that was true. He barely looked at a weeklong kidnapping victim that he, at least, liked a lot in the elevator. I know he was in Arrow mode, but way harsh Tai. (Not that I cared because Snoozan can take a long walk off a short pier but I did notice that interaction or lack thereof.)

It's unclear if Nyssa and Talia know each other, but if they didn't, maybe I might like it more if Nyssa showed up with a derisive, "Sister." Followed by an epic lady fight. Maybe I just want to see a lady fight. I don't know what that says about me. 

[Delphi]

4 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

 

It's unclear if Nyssa and Talia know each other, but if they didn't, maybe I might like it more if Nyssa showed up with a derisive, "Sister." Followed by an epic lady fight. Maybe I just want to see a lady fight. I don't know what that says about me. 

It says that you have a healthy appreciation of television.   I for one never got tired of Buffy and Faith bashing each other's faces in. 

[tv echo]

FYI, Arrow has posted 516 video clips on youtube...
Vid Listing: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtiCOweGmyKAO2odjX0qiDg

[insomniadreams88]

13 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I'm so emotional :')

Rewatched this scene, and Felicity's surprise that Oliver's worried about her speaks volumes about this season. 

[statsgirl]

Hopefully Relatively-Smart Oliver will return now that he knows the game that Chase and Talia are playing.  But he never was the sharpest knife in the drawer.

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'm also disappointed that Talia went the passive-aggressive route of training Chase. If she was upset over Ollie killing her dad, why not take him out herself, or send some of the numerous already-trained students she presumably had. For that matter, how did Samuel Morrison find Talia in the first place?

And how long has Simon Morrison been pretending to be Adrian Chase?  He's need law school credentials to be DA, this isn't Suits.

Lexa Doig said that Talia is the sort of person not to get her own hands dirty when she can get someone else to do the job. The point was to torture Oliver and Chase did a better job than Talia could since she has to stay in the shadows. Now that everything's out in the open, she might take a bigger role.

[Writing Wrongs]

I also want a Nyssa/Talia throwdown. Is Oliver still "married" to Nyssa?

[wonderwall]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

and I don't know why they're putting this much focus on a failed romance that hasn't worked in several episodes.

They really didn't put ANY focus on them this episode, though. Can't say the same for 14-15.