S06.E13: Ill-Boding Patterns

[Curio]

I just realized we finally kind of got the Regina/Evil Queen/Robin love triangle we've been hoping for. Can we keep Robin and EQ around and get rid of Regina and her unflattering hat?

[Camera One]

Get rid of all of them.  I'm done with The Evil Queen and fake Robin.  If next episode was all about that triangle (while Emma/Henry go canoeing and Snowing sleeps), people would actually enjoy that?

Edited March 20, 2017 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

I'm confused about the whole Not!Robin issue. Where's the drama? Regina doesn't like this new Robin and is pretty meh about the whole thing. She just seems to want to be rid of the hassle he's causing her. Why did they even bring him back if this was all they were going to do with it? I don't like angst for angst sake like they've got going with Hook, but this is something that Regina should be legitimately emotional about and she doesn't even really seem to care much.

[Curio]

7 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

I don't like angst for angst sake like they've got going with Hook, but this is something that Regina should be legitimately emotional about and she doesn't even really seem to care much.

It really is weird how anti-climactic the entire Robin thing is. His return was what they hinged the entire winter finale cliffhanger on, and now it's like, "Ehhh...whatever. I guess he's not the same so let's move on." Why did they spend so much freaking time on Robin/Regina in the spring premiere instead of focusing on other relationships? Cough. Like Emma and Old Hook. Cough.

[Camera One]

Two reasons:

1. Not!Robin apparently has now resulted in a reconciled Regina and Zelena.

2. So now The Evil Queen has someone new to talk to (or do other things with) - Not!Robin.  Since Rumple is now reforming again.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

1. Not!Robin apparently has now reconciled Regina and Zelena.

As a Zelena fan, I'm pissed off that Regina's hypocrite speech in 6x09 had no payoff. They've moved on like nothing happened. Zelena is still apologetic and trying to make amends, even though she's treated like crap. It's all going to be passed off as simple sibling rivalry, and I hate that.

Edited March 20, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[thuganomics85]

Yikes!  Even by this show's standards (where I'm usually more lenient compared to others), there was a whole lot of stupid going on here.  And worst of all, all of it was predictable and boring.  If you're going to be dumb, at least be glorious at it!

So, basically, the flashbacks was one big-ass recon, where it turns out that Rumple actually was resisting being the Dark One and using his powers, but freaking Bae of all people forces him to kill Beowulf (talk about a waste of a well-known character), so Rumple wipes his memory, and pretends like he was the one who did it on his own.  This is the reason he and Bae are distant, and I'm guessing why he kept doing bad things.  Dumb.  So dumb.  And I don't even like Bae/Neal, but it just feels unnecessary.  I'm sure he's done with this show, but if Michael Raymond-James ever keeps updated on these things, I'm sure he's just shaking his head and thinking "Sheesh, I wonder what other awful things I'll end up being responsible for!"

Meanwhile, back in the present time, Gideon is back to trying to go after Emma, by repairing the sword that broke (which happened to be Beowulf's), and ends up forcing Rumple to help him (because despite it happening every freaking season, Rumple can't seem to ever protect that damn dagger.  Come on, now!)  It turns out he needs the Blue Fairy's blood/power to use it, so Rumple once again does it himself, so his son doesn't "darken himself."  Yeah, lets ignore the fact that there is still intent, so even if he wasn't who cut her hand, Gideon is still just as responsible, just as Bae was.  This whole thing is ridiculous.  I just don't get why they keep trying to "redeem" Rumple.  Either just embrace him as a full-fledge villain or, as much as I love Robert Carlyle, they really should have had him die back when he sacrificed himself against Pan.  Because at this point, there just wasting Carlyle's talents.

Alt-Robin and Zelena teaming up was actually one of the few things I found interesting, so, naturally, it ends with it not working, Regina being all sad (oh, you poor thing!), and then The Evil Queen coming back into the picture.  Great!

Hook just sulks and drinks at Granny's, finally tries to tell Emma the truth, only for her to reveal she found his ring, so he officially proposes instead.  Weak sauce, show.

Edited March 21, 2017 by thuganomics85

[Curio]

"You guys, you just aren't getting it. Drama is what makes good television. Otherwise, you'd all be bored! Listen, I know the fans want to see 42 minutes of Hook proposing to Emma, but that wouldn't make for a good show. We like to put our characters through the ringer and see them overcome these huge obstacles again and again and again—sometimes we even repeat the exact same plots from a few episodes ago—but it shows how much our characters have changed over the course of the series. Everyone wants to see the characters happy all the time, but then the show wouldn't be nearly as exciting. When we do flashbacks that show a character like Bae ordering his father to kill someone, it shows how the world we live in isn't just black and white, these characters are grey. We all know Rumple was a villain back in the day, but to see him choose to take away his son's memories without Bae's permission was a big step in showing that Rumple is more than just the Dark One, he's a loving father. He was willing to take the hard path and take on the huge burden of pretending to be a murderer as a sacrifice for his son. I mean, he already was a murderer, but even more than before." —A&E, probably.

[Camera One]

8 minutes ago, Curio said:

When we do flashbacks that show a character like Bae ordering his father to kill someone, it shows how the world we live in isn't just black and white, these characters are grey. 

Oh LOL.  Well, you just brought the joy back into this show.

[zumpie]

Yikes!  Even by this show's standards (where I'm usually more lenient compared to others), there was a whole lot of stupid going on here.  And worst of all, all of it was predictable and boring.  If you're going to be dumb, at least be glorious at it!

So, basically, the flashbacks was one big-ass recon, where it turns out that Rumple actually was resisting being the Dark One and using his powers, but freaking Bae of all people forces him to kill Beowolf (talk about a waste of a well-known character), so Rumple wipes his memory, and pretends like he was the one who did it on his own.  This is the reason he and Bae are distant, and I'm guessing why he kept doing bad things.  Dumb.  So dumb.  And I don't even like Bae/Neal, but it just feels unnecessary.  I'm sure he's done with this show, but if Michael Raymond-James ever keeps updated on these things, I'm sure he's just shaking his head and thinking "Sheesh, I wonder what other awful things I'll end up being responsible for!"

Meanwhile, back in the present time, Gideon is back to trying to go after Emma, by repairing the sword that broke (which happened to be Beowolf's), and ends up forcing Rumple to help him (because despite it happening every freaking season, Rumple can't seem to ever protect that damn dagger.  Come on, now!)  It turns out he needs the Blue Fairy's blood/power to use it, so Rumple once again does it himself, so his son doesn't "darken himself."  Yeah, lets ignore the fact that there is still intent, so even if he wasn't who cut her hand, Gideon is still just as responsible, just as Bae was.  This whole thing is ridiculous.  I just don't get why they keep trying to "redeem" Rumple.  Either just embrace him as a full-fledge villain or, as much as I love Robert Carlyle, they really should have had him die back when he sacrificed himself against Pan.  Because at this point, there just wasting Carlyle's talents.

Alt-Robin and Zelena teaming up was actually one of the few things I found interesting, so, naturally, it ends with it not working, Regina being all sad (oh, you poor thing!), and then The Evil Queen coming back into the picture.  Great!

Hook just sulks and drinks at Granny's, finally tries to tell Emma the truth, only for her to reveal she found his ring, so he officially proposes instead.  Weak sauce, show.

Except Big Boy Bagel WAS a dick when he was on the show, so if anything, this retcon is actually more accurate. Even the Nu-MiniBagel was a shitty actor. Plus, I;m pretty sure MRJ is thinking he wishes he had a steady paycheck again, right about now (and hadn't burned that bridge).

Also.....nooooo......Scaly did NOT take the Dark Curse to save MiniBagel. He had Zoso under his control (thus ensuring MiniBagel's complete safety) and chose to murder Zoso because he wanted power and Zoso insulted him. THAT was always the point.

Just as here, he defeated the ogres through mass genocide....and is "keeping Gidiot's hands clean" by basically acting of Gidiot's evil henchman.....and just as the Duke was responsible for what he made Kwumple do (and was Nu-MiniBagel last night) or someone who hires a hitman viewed as having committed murder, so Gidiot remains an actor as a villain, whether he hurts others or has his daddykins do it for him.

Also, not only was DimBelle's wig heinous, why was she dressed for Halloween, as a giant Jack o'Lantern? I get she's a dumbass (she bought Scaly's horseshit here completely).....but surely she can read a calendar?

[oncebluethrone]

2 hours ago, Vyk said:

Yeah.  Season one.  The show as a whole is about the people of Storybrooke, not just the Charmings.  So it didn't bother me that many of them were absent.

Same here.

[ParadoxLost]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

How would Gideon remember that his mother gave him "Her Handsome Hero"?  He was a magical baby who could understand language from birth?  Why didn't The Black Fairy just destroy the book?

Because in all the realms, there is no better technique to warp impressionable minds with ass backward logic and beliefs than "Her Handsome Hero".  Just look at Belle.

I somehow missed the part last night where Belle was standing over Blue Fairy's body and hugged Rumple and told him he was wonderful enough to make the "right decision" and darken his heart (by murdering her friend...and I don't care if she can be resurrected) to save Gideon. Frankly, I'm surprised that she didn't suggest that Rumple go murder Emma immediately to remove the possibility that Gideon might do it.

Edited March 20, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Curio]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

It turns out he needs the Blue Fairy's blood/power to use it, so Rumple once again does it himself, so his son doesn't "darken himself."  Yeah, lets ignore the fact that there is still intent, so even if he wasn't who cut her hand, Gideon is still just as responsible, just as Bae was.  This whole thing is ridiculous.  

I'd love to see an episode of "OUAT: Courtroom" where all the characters have to actually learn about the law and what it means to be an accomplice to a crime. 

[Terrafamilia]

The First Ogres War was the war with the First Ogres. Later, the Second Ogres came along and had their own war.

[Camera One]

If they were unable to cast Beowulf, they could have had...

Aragorn... he made up Sauron to be called a hero.

Adult Harry Potter... he made up Voldemort to be called a hero.

Shang... he made up the attacking Huns to be called a hero.

Luke Skywalker... he made up Darth Vader to be called a hero.

[tennisgurl]

I swear, I will never understand why this show is so obsessed with throwing away classic characters to make the leads look better. I'm not particularly attached to Beowulf, and he was certainly blood thirsty, boastful, prideful, and kind of an asshole, but that's what people expected from their Epic Heroes back then. He really did try to save people, he didn't murder random people to make stupid points about his neighbor being evil being he was annoyed that he used magic to kill ogres. He would have considered that shameful. He could have been just some random guy, but they chose Beowulf because he a character that people know the name of, but might not know his story. Of course, that's Once in a nutshell, especially when it comes to one off famous characters. They have little to do with the original character, or they take one trait from that character and push it up to 11. They don't care about having famous characters interact with each other, like they tried to make it seem like they were. They just want to use them to prop up their pet characters. Like they do with EVERYONE.

Speaking of, I call bullshit on this lately retcon with Bae. Yeah at least they came with a reason they've never brought this up, but he still DID it. That's now a part of his personality. Even if he didn't remember it, he's still a guy who is ok with forcing his dad to kill a guy, then enjoyed having that power over people. I always thought Neal got shady after he got sucked into the portal, but apparently he was an asshole the whole time! Anything to make one of the writers favorites look better.

Just now, Camera One said:

Adult Harry Potter... he made up Voldemort to be called a hero.

A&E are actually Rita Skeeter in disguise! Playing two people! It explains everything!

[LaChavalina]

21 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Did he? Or did she just escape?

I got a laugh out of the fact that they showed a shot of the empty cage and there were holes in the top clearly big enough for that snake to squeeze through.

[tennisgurl]

8 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Maybe not kill him, but use the Dark One power to arrest him and bring him to town for justice.

Because for some reason, this show insists that the only way to deal with villains is to kill them, or let them go about their merry way. Jails and courtrooms are clearly a foreign concept to these people (unless they realize its a convenient place to say a characters been when you haven't seen them in awhile).

[Shanna Marie]

30 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Jails and courtrooms are clearly a foreign concept to these people

Except the time they had a jail and a trial -- and still decided that the right way to deal with the villain was let her go about her merry way.

[3dog]

Did anyone else laugh at the make up job when vengeful!Bae showed up with the mud perfectly placed on his face and carefully circling each eye? He looked like he had a mud mask on. It was so goofy. Rumple: "Bae! What did they do to you?"  Me: "Gave him a facial?"

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Late to the party this week - just watched the episode.  To be honest, I almost didn't watch it at all tonight.  After last week I was certainly in no hurry.  But I stayed off the show threads until I did watch to remain unspoiled.  And dang, but I missed reading everyone's thoughts and discussing the show, (even if it's bad) with y'all!  Lol.  (And haven't read all the comments yet, so most of this has probably already been discussed.  Oh well.)    

It wasn't....bad.  It wasn't that great.  I'm sure there's lots of plot holes, and I did catch a few retcons that made me roll my eyes.  A couple goodies that...almost...made the entire ep worth it:

• "Captain Hook doesn't get cold feet"  Hee hee!  I really like this line.  And this was actually true to character that we've seen of Hook - he follows through on what he sets out to do.  
• Was that Regina at the end having moment of self-awareness?!  Oh my... How the hell did the writers sneak that in past A&E?

A lot of bad crap:

• Only this show could make Beowulf a bad guy.
• Before the memory potion use on young Bae I was wondering how this one jived with the Bae who wanted to leave the EF to get away from magic.  Then: "Oh.  Never mind."  You know, Rumple really didn't do Bae/Neal any favors by erasing that memory for him though.  The self-righteous prick would have been better off knowing what he'd made his father The Dark One do.
• Speaking of Rumple and his sons: Apparently, the writers don't understand that doing evil on someone's behalf, with their full knowledge that you're doing it for them, does not keep the stigma of darkness off of the one benefiting from the evil deeds.  That's like saying Manson is innocent in the Tate murders since he didn't actually kill them himself.  Uh no.  That's not how it works.    

I think I pretty much have to stop here for now - at least until I catch up on the comments.  I don't even know what to say about Not!Robin.  I think people on this board called him hooking up with the Evil Queen.  Ha!  I was expecting her to plunge her hand into his chest and rip out his heart at the end and make him her sex slave.  Too bad that didn't happen.  

[Curio]

15 minutes ago, 3dog said:

Did anyone else laugh at the make up job when vengeful!Bae showed up with the mud perfectly placed on his face and carefully circling each eye? He looked like he had a mud mask on. It was so goofy. Rumple: "Bae! What did they do to you?"  Me: "Gave him a facial?"

 

I thought for a second that maybe Bae put the mud on his own face and blamed it on the other kid just to see what Rumple would do about it. Because yeah, it was a little too perfectly painted on.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

First page of comments read:

On 3/19/2017 at 9:04 PM, scenicbyway said:

 Is Henry even in Storybrooke? 

One can only hope not.  You know it's bad when viewers start wondering where Henry is...

On 3/19/2017 at 9:07 PM, Shanna Marie said:

Even knitting while watching wasn't enough to hold off the boredom.

Lol!  I was crocheting.  And come to think of it - this is one of the few times I can remember not losing my place; which means the show wasn't keeping my attention very well.  

On 3/19/2017 at 9:20 PM, tennisgurl said:

Wow, an episode that both managed to both bore me AND piss me off! Oh, show. I've never had a friend like you. Thank God.

^^I think this is the perfect description.  

On 3/19/2017 at 9:27 PM, CCTC said:

 I think they overuse Regina, but overall I am OK with her when they tone back the self-pity.   I will be glad when the OQ is finally gone for good.

The last couple episodes have especially been heavy on the self pity.  I find myself getting annoyed every time I see Regina's sad face over Not!Robin.  I'm just sick of it.  

On 3/19/2017 at 9:46 PM, tennisgurl said:

What, was he raised by old school Klingons? Its just stupid. 

Highlanders.  'Cause apparently, there can be only one.  

On 3/19/2017 at 9:54 PM, Mrs. de Winter said:

I admit as a rule I pay little to no attention to anything Dark One related (much as I love RC) but is there a reason his spawn can't ask for the current savior's help in defeating grandma versus killing Emma (and theoretically becoming a savior - which is not how this works, not how any of this works)?  

Or you know - even ask Rumple - The Dark One with All the Darkest of All The Dark Ones Before Him Powers - for help.  

On 3/19/2017 at 10:18 PM, Shanna Marie said:

That's basically your bad Harlequin romance kind of conflict 

Maybe that's where they got the idea.  Obviously they are out of original ones, and they figured if they ripped off a cheesy 1980's Romance novel, no one would notice.  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Second page of comment done.  

22 hours ago, superloislane said:

I did get my little squee moment during the proposal even if it wasn't what I wanted. That's what Captain Swan does to me. Also I figure they'll probably get another one down the line after the 'big bad secret' comes out.

I see a good many people speculating that there will be another proposal.  I'm not sure there's time, with everything else they still have to wrap up.  And even if there is a second proposal, it's likely to be as rushed as the first.  I'm happy to be wrong, of course.  

22 hours ago, Camera One said:

Like the Author plotline and the Hat Box plotline, I cannot buy the premise and it makes the story DOA.

The hat plot!  That's what Blue being knocked out reminded me off.  Haven't we already seen the fairies' power sucked out story?  When the stars align....  I'm thinking that's when Rumple will really give Blue her magic back and wake her.  Since when is Rumple ever agreeable to giving magic/power back to someone else?  Blue's cape really bothered me this ep - I think that's thanks to @Shanna Marie wondering in another thread why they still dress as nuns.  

12 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

So, I can kind of see the villagers being a bit wary of having a Dark One in their midst after the Dark One was used to subjugate them, and a bit wary of it being the guy that they've been treating like a loser outcast. But I don't really get them thinking of him freeing them from the duke's tyranny, ending the war, and stopping their husbands and sons from being drafted as a negative, especially if he isn't yet using his power to oppress them.

The writers need to seriously watch some news.  Or you know, do better research.  This is exactly how extremist groups like Al Qaeda and Isis gain footholds in villages.  First they go in and do good things: rebuild schools and roads, give out food, help the poor.  Then they Slowly start exerting more control over the populace.  But they don't completely stop doing good things, like giving out food in impoverished areas, because if they did the villagers would completely turn against them.   

In the Rumple flashback, they were all in the tavern hailing Rumple as a hero for killing all the ogres.  Beowulf comes in and suddenly, Rumple's the bad guy again.  Talk about a fickle crowd.  No, it's not that fast.  And even with Beowulf saying whatever he was saying (I honestly don't even remember) at that point, Rumple was a hero, and they shouldn't have turned on him that fast.  In fact, in reality, Beowulf would have run out of town.  

11 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

The Evil Queen strengthened it in "Heartless" so that no one could escape her threat to kill the town with Lost Souls water unless Snow and David gave themselves up. Which doesn't explain why Regina wouldn't be able to reverse her own evil half's spell.

Or how Gideon was able to get in.  Honestly, if Zelena and Not!Robin want to leave so bad, why don't they go ask him to give them a ride?  Then Gideon could be a hero for doing helping them escape the Evil Queen  Regina.

8 hours ago, Curio said:

Also, isn't it out of character for Rumple to tell Bae that he'd be willing to move to another town? Hasn't Rumple always been Mr. Homebody with both Milah and Belle?

Yes, yes, yes.  He wouldn't leave when Milah begged him to.  Wasn't there a flashback in an earlier season where young Bae asked him to leave and he wouldn't?  So now all of a sudden, he's willing to leave for this Bae.  Not buying it.  

[Camera One]

Becoming the Dark One for such a short time really cleared Rumple's head, so that's why he was willing to leave the village.  I don't get why you all aren't more sorry for him like everyone was when Emma first became Dark Swan.  Just like her, he was still struggling with his humanity, people.   I just cried a little thinking how he had to remain the Dark One forever just because that Baelfire forced him to murder Beowulf in cold blood.  It's so sad when a child has such evil in their heart.  It is clear that Gideon is not like that.  He is trying to overcome the bad influence of the Black Fairy.  He's trying so hard, and I love how he began to trust his father in the end.  What a wonderful parent-child relationship.  And he might bring his parents back together!  I almost swooned when Rumple and Belle embraced over that evil lady who made the sword.  It's because of her that Gideon might taint himself with darkness.  Good thing Rumple saved him from hurting his heart but you can see it really pained him to do so.  I might rewatch the episode for the fifth time before bed.

[Mathius]

11 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Becoming the Dark One for such a short time really cleared Rumple's head, so that's why he was willing to leave the village.  I don't get why you all aren't more sorry for him like everyone was when Emma first became Dark Swan.  Just like her, he was still struggling with his humanity, people.   I just cried a little thinking how he had to remain the Dark One forever just because that Baelfire forced him to murder Beowulf in cold blood.  It's so sad when a child has such evil in their heart.  It is clear that Gideon is not like that.  He is trying to overcome the bad influence of the Black Fairy.  He's trying so hard, and I love how he began to trust his father in the end.  What a wonderful parent-child relationship.  And he might bring his parents back together!  I almost swooned when Rumple and Belle embraced over that evil lady who made the sword.  It's because of her that Gideon might taint himself with darkness.  Good thing Rumple saved him from hurting his heart but you can see it really pained him to do so.  I might rewatch the episode for the fifth time before bed.

You're 11 days too early with that post.

[InsertWordHere]

7 hours ago, Vyk said:

Yeah.  Season one.  The show as a whole is about the people of Storybrooke, not just the Charmings.  So it didn't bother me that many of them were absent.

 

5 hours ago, oncebluethrone said:

Same here.

I mean this sincerely, so I hope it doesn't come off sarcastically: I am genuinely happy that you weren't bothered by their absence. There have been Charming family-lite episodes before that haven't bothered me at all because the story was interesting enough to make up for the lack of my favorite characters. In my original post, I was attempting to express my opinion that this episode did not give us enough to make up for the lack of Charmings. The main plot of this episode centered around Rumple and Gideon, a relationship that only started a few days ago in show time, unless we're counting Rumple's relationship with a fetus. The B plot of this episode was about Regina and a man she just met two episodes ago. That man also shared scenes with a different version of Regina and the woman who raped another version of him. In my opinion, there was not enough weight or history involved between Rumple and Gideon or Regina and Wish!Robin to make it very interesting to me. Usually, when we have one character hanging out with a newbie, there would be another plot featuring the older characters together to help balance it out. Perhaps if I wasn't worried we are running out of time with these characters, I wouldn't mind so much that there was no history being used. 

I am not inherently uninterested in Rumple, or Belle, or Regina, or, as you say, the citizens of Storybrooke. In fact, the Rumbelle and Gideon scenes were probably my favorite part of the season premiere. I've always liked the pre-Neal version of Bae. I also usually like seeing what the Blue Fairy is up to. Even that felt off. Where was Rumple's sneering hatred? Is it gone now because we know his mother's a fairy? Rumple's known that since before the Curse. I felt like even the characters who had a history with each other were given the short end of the stick in this episode. 

[Camera One]

6 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

I've always liked the pre-Neal version of Bae. I also usually like seeing what the Blue Fairy is up to. Even that felt off. Where was Rumple's sneering hatred? 

If this had been any other Young Bae flashback, I would have enjoyed this episode more.  But the combination of the new actor and the horrible twist at the end (I really should get used to typing that) ruined it and left a very bitter draught in my mouth.  

I always like seeing the Blue Fairy too.  Rumple did immediately blame her for losing Gideon as a baby and she did coldly tell him if it's anyone's fault, it's his mother.  

I was talking to a Rumple fan earlier today, and she actually enjoyed this episode more than last week, so I suppose if he's your favorite character, this episode might have been entertaining.

[Mrs. DuRona]

Everytime Gideon says that he has to kill the savior to become one, I roll my eyes and yell at the screen "It's not like the slayer line, moron!"  Then I picture the black fairy raising him by binge watching Buffy, but magically replacing "Slayer" with "Savior"...

[daxx]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

Becoming the Dark One for such a short time really cleared Rumple's head, so that's why he was willing to leave the village.  I don't get why you all aren't more sorry for him like everyone was when Emma first became Dark Swan.  Just like her, he was still struggling with his humanity, people.   I just cried a little thinking how he had to remain the Dark One forever just because that Baelfire forced him to murder Beowulf in cold blood.  It's so sad when a child has such evil in their heart.  It is clear that Gideon is not like that.  He is trying to overcome the bad influence of the Black Fairy.  He's trying so hard, and I love how he began to trust his father in the end.  What a wonderful parent-child relationship.  And he might bring his parents back together!  I almost swooned when Rumple and Belle embraced over that evil lady who made the sword.  It's because of her that Gideon might taint himself with darkness.  Good thing Rumple saved him from hurting his heart but you can see it really pained him to do so.  I might rewatch the episode for the fifth time before bed.

You laugh but I've seen nearly this post on tumblr... except you didn't also bash Belle for being abusive, you missed that point...

[RulerofallIsurvey]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

and left a very bitter draught in my mouth.  

Ha ha.  I see what you did there.  Here, drink your potion...

[oncebluethrone]

8 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

 

I mean this sincerely, so I hope it doesn't come off sarcastically: I am genuinely happy that you weren't bothered by their absence. There have been Charming family-lite episodes before that haven't bothered me at all because the story was interesting enough to make up for the lack of my favorite characters. In my original post, I was attempting to express my opinion that this episode did not give us enough to make up for the lack of Charmings. The main plot of this episode centered around Rumple and Gideon, a relationship that only started a few days ago in show time, unless we're counting Rumple's relationship with a fetus. The B plot of this episode was about Regina and a man she just met two episodes ago. That man also shared scenes with a different version of Regina and the woman who raped another version of him. In my opinion, there was not enough weight or history involved between Rumple and Gideon or Regina and Wish!Robin to make it very interesting to me. Usually, when we have one character hanging out with a newbie, there would be another plot featuring the older characters together to help balance it out. Perhaps if I wasn't worried we are running out of time with these characters, I wouldn't mind so much that there was no history being used. 

I am not inherently uninterested in Rumple, or Belle, or Regina, or, as you say, the citizens of Storybrooke. In fact, the Rumbelle and Gideon scenes were probably my favorite part of the season premiere. I've always liked the pre-Neal version of Bae. I also usually like seeing what the Blue Fairy is up to. Even that felt off. Where was Rumple's sneering hatred? Is it gone now because we know his mother's a fairy? Rumple's known that since before the Curse. I felt like even the characters who had a history with each other were given the short end of the stick in this episode. 

I think I wasn't bothered by their absence because I enjoyed seeing this new relationship between Rumple and Gideon and because I thought this episode was actually fairly good for a Rumple centric (which I would normally hate). My favorite episodes are the ones focusing on the Charming-Swan-Jones and sometimes Mills family, but I also enjoy seeing the show from the perspective of the Golds and guest characters.  

[oncebluethrone]

While I am still upset about the proposal happening in this episode, I realized I am not as bothered by the secret-keeping part of it because Emma did the exact same thing when she asked him to move in in episode 3. She asked Killian to move in before she told him of her impending fate and he asked her to marry him before he told her the thing about her grandfather (granted, Emma basically asked him herself, but still).  These two moments parallel each other  and I have found that this season has paralleled/will parallel itself multiple times.

Episode 1: Emma discovers her fate, Episode 11: Emma takes control of her fate

Episode 2: Serum Queen tells David his father was killed, Episode 12: David learns how he was killed (for the most part)

Episode 3: Emma asks Killian to move in while withholding something, Episode 13: Killian asks Emma to marry him while withholding something

Spoiler

 

Episode 4: major episode between two halves of a split person, Episode 14: major episode between two halves of a split person

Episode 5: Jaladdin episode, Episode 15: partial Jaladdin episode

nothing for 6 and 16

Episode 7: when Snowing is cursed, Episode 17: when Snowing's curse is broken

nothing for 8 and 18

Episode 9: when we first meet the Black Fairy, Episode 19: the Black Fairy's centric

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Give me a fucking break. I'm supposed to believe that Rumple "chose darkness for goodness" (to defeat the ogres) and was still totally good and in control but he only turned truly dark and evil because of Bae? I just can't with this utter load of retcon bull crap. Do the writers think we've forgotten the flashbacks from the first two seasons?

Also in the category of complete nonsense: that terrible proposal.

I was so distracted by the kid playing Bae because he kept pronouncing "papa" differently than MRJ used to. On top of that, this new kid looked too much like the actor who plays Luke on Modern Family that I couldn't take him seriously.

The actor playing Gideon looks like a young Josh Charles from certain angles.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

16 hours ago, zumpie said:

Gidiot's

I like this.  I think I'm going to have to adopt it to my lexicon.  

[KingOfHearts]

8 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I like this.  I think I'm going to have to adopt it to my lexicon.  

Put it right next to "Dumbelle".

Quote

Someone please enlighten me: is Shady alive or dead?

She's as dead as she was when her shadow was ripped away.

Edited March 21, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Someone please enlighten me: is Shady alive or dead?

[Camera One]

36 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Someone please enlighten me: is Shady alive or dead?

It's a metaphor for life.

[Mathius]

43 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Someone please enlighten me: is Shady alive or dead?

She's alive but comatose.  Gold said that when this is all over, he'll return her magic to her.  If she was dead, there would be no point to that.

[Camera One]

Blue is so dumb.  "Sure, I'll re-forge the sword for you... just give it to me for a sec."  Stab Giddy.  Stab Rumpy.  Oops, did I just do that?  Come on, if you want a rousing twist ending, that would be it.  I doubt anyone would be sad.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

35 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It's a metaphor for life.

Lolol

29 minutes ago, Mathius said:

She's alive but comatose.  Gold said that when this is all over, he'll return her magic to her.  If she was dead, there would be no point to that.

Okay, thanks. Shady will be back for sure...

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Once Upon A Time Grumbles Over Grendel

If you thought Rumplestiltskin's backstory was a well that had run dry...you were right! But that won't stop Once Upon A Time from going back there anyway. Now with the poem that tortured you in high school!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

18 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Or how Gideon was able to get in.  Honestly, if Zelena and Not!Robin want to leave so bad, why don't they go ask him to give them a ride?  Then Gideon could be a hero for doing helping them escape the Evil Queen  Regina.

He didn't walk through the barrier from the outside, though. He came straight into town through a portal from the Dark Realm. The barrier is to stop people going to or coming in from the rest of Earth.

Even if Gideon *is* powerful enough to get through the barrier and isn't limited to sending people to the Dark Realm, which they wouldn't enjoy, Zelena and Wish!Robin have no reason to think he wouldn't turn them into snakes, too.

23 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I somehow missed the part last night where Belle was standing over Blue Fairy's body and hugged Rumple and told him he was wonderful enough to make the "right decision" and darken his heart (by murdering her friend...and I don't care if she can be resurrected) to save Gideon. Frankly, I'm surprised that she didn't suggest that Rumple go murder Emma immediately to remove the possibility that Gideon might do it.

Which is completely the opposite of what she said at the end of "Tougher Than Rest" about it being easy to rationalize doing the wrong thing to protect Gideon.

 

11 hours ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

Everytime Gideon says that he has to kill the savior to become one, I roll my eyes and yell at the screen "It's not like the slayer line, moron!"  Then I picture the black fairy raising him by binge watching Buffy, but magically replacing "Slayer" with "Savior"...

Actually, for all we know it might be that you get a new Savior when the previous one either dies or loses their Savior-ness (like Aladdin, the Savior before Emma). But we know it's not a you-have-to-kill-the-last-one thing. (Neither is the Slayer, by the way.) Gideon seems to think it will work that way in this case because of the sword.

20 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Only this show could make Beowulf a bad guy.

Well, he's not exactly a good guy in the graphic novel by Neil Gaiman and its movie adaptation.

[Mitch]

Good God...a show with no dim bulb Charming, dimwit Snow AND best of all folks, no Henry...and they still manged to screw it up and bore the hell out of me.

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Blue is so dumb.  "Sure, I'll re-forge the sword for you... just give it to me for a sec."  Stab Giddy.  Stab Rumpy.  Oops, did I just do that?  Come on, if you want a rousing twist ending, that would be it.  I doubt anyone would be sad.

What are doing posting here and not writing the show. I would have LOVED that....with a close up her cackling..."And NOW I have the greatest power of them all..and Rumple thought he was good at the long con!" Now that's a twist and we finally find out Shady is indeed Shady and that is why she never steps in to help..she just doesn't give a shit and is waiting to kill them all herself.

Agree with all of you, standing by and letting someone do something bad and not intervening makes you complicit, especially if it was your plan to begin with and someone had to pull the weapon out of your hand to do it. So if I hire an assassin that makes me clean?? The show's morality keeps getting murkier, and not in an interesting edgy way but a WTF way.

Mayor Mills of S1, gleefully manipulating all around her would never wear that hat..they should just start showing Regina looking more and more bedraggled and wearing dumb things until they find out that the EQ was the one with the fashion sense(Emma. "Uh Regina, mom jeans???")  I liked Zelena and Robin teaming up...but really, what were they going to do once they got over the line...walk with a baby and a cobra..(and wouldnt the spell break on the EQ where there was no magic..) and what do Storybrookers plan to do in the LWOM...with no money, no SSN, no job history... ("Well, as a witch I impersonated a man's wife and managed to grit my teeth and sleep with him despite the fact I despised him so, yes an escort job would work...")  I do like that Zelena likes New York, I could never see her living in that dumpy farm house. 

Okay, so Zelena and Robin don't last so we get the EQ and Dark Robin.  They got rid of Hyde to team her up with boring Robin?

Can we just have a pop up bubble where Cruella watching from Hades, makes comments about the utter stupidity of the show and the characters?

[Curio]

Okay, stupid question...but I legitimately can't remember. (That's how much I care about this season.) What happened to the magic shears? Why can't Gideon use the shears on Emma to cut away her Savior title and take it from her? Why is killing her necessary?

[Mathius]

21 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Well, he's not exactly a good guy in the graphic novel by Neil Gaiman and its movie adaptation.

Beowulf was always something of an anti-hero.  His behavior at the start of the episode - being angry at Rumple denying him an actual warrior's victory over the ogres - is in line with his classic literary counterpart.  But then slaughtering villagers to frame Rumple so that he can fake being a hero? No, just no.  That kind of sneaky criminal behavior is far removed from the proud warrior he's meant to be and seemed to be at the start.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Mathius

[Camera One]

Beowulf was arrogant, but he was always willing to fight alone and sacrifice his own life.  He wasn't holding the only powerful sword.  In fact, he refused to fight Grendel with a weapon so it would be fair.  I agree he might look down upon Rumple for using magic, but to me, he might as well be called Random Villain #1582934.  The real Beowulf would have been out to pursue further glory by chasing other monsters. 

Edited March 21, 2017 by Camera One

[maryle]

Repeat so repetitive.

The only moment I did like was Robin and Zelena at her house after it became soapy whinny again at  the town line.

But , no the cs proposal was not good!

And I only still here because of them. Love both egally and won't watch without both half of cs if the infamous reboot do happen.

But, it was bad because Emma the orpheline was not even leading to this important moments. She just came didn't really sound like her at all.

Bad for Killian because he didn't want to happen like that with the weight of secret.

Bad for for me as cs fans who did wonder what kind of proposal cs could have. Had thought of many possibilities but never something so .... Desapointement !  In fact, the only reason I will look at the gifts is because of Jen and Colin.

Concerning the flash back Gideon can't become lead the show. I wonder if they did thoughts about it and realize he just can't.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

So, basically, the flashbacks was one big-ass recon, where it turns out that Rumple actually was resisting being the Dark One and using his powers, but freaking Bae of all people forces him to kill Beowulf (talk about a waste of a well-known character), so Rumple wipes his memory, and pretends like he was the one who did it on his own.  

I guess we're now supposed to buy that Rumple became The Dark One in order to save his son (and the town) from the ogres. Which means we have to forget the previous origin story where we were shown that Rumple pursued becoming The Dark One because he had been humiliated by the guards in front of his son and simply wanted power. And then proceeded to turn random villagers who looked at him cross-eyed into snails and then stepped on them.

What episodes like this do is prove you can only go back to the same well so many times before you are completely re-writing your show's own history. It's pretty much the same with Regina, Snow and Charming - they've really exhausted any ability to tap into their pasts at this point. Why they insist on continuing to try is beyond me.

[Curio]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What episodes like this do is prove you can only go back to the same well so many times before you are completely re-writing your show's own history. It's pretty much the same with Regina, Snow and Charming - they've really exhausted any ability to tap into their pasts at this point. Why they insist on continuing to try is beyond me.

Well, then I hope you're ready for next week's episode where we get round 923845729 of Evil Queen flashbacks. (Not a spoiler, it's in the episode trailer.)