S05.E02: Pests

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Stan and Oleg wrestle with the harsh consequences of their complicated history, as Philip and Elizabeth face a new mission with devastating implications for their country.

Promo:

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Chaos Theory]

Sex lessons from your parents.  Not awkward at all.  At least Paige is getting to hit Elizabeth in the garage from time to time.  Also now every time Paige has sex she is going to think of her parents.  Not awkward at all.

A lot of food shots. 

So was that some spy craft on an Illinois farm? Were they just being paranoid or did they think the place was being guarded?  

Good for Stan dating again.  Also good for Stan not blabbing state secrets when Philtpnasked how his day was.

So Are we going to spend the entire season saying "Where's Henry?""

[Primetimer]

As wheat takes its rightful place at the center of a suspense plot, Paige gets more stressed.

View the full article

[TimWil]

I see Noah Emmerrich has taken care of that eye twitch issue he's had for a few seasons (pun intended). Good for him.

[gwhh]

Phillip got the blood lust going tonight.  Out of the blue he says let's wack the guy.  I think it's the food thing that set him off. 

I never heard of any USA program screwing with the grain they ship out to the USSR. This would be very bad idea for two reason. The "whatever" you did to the grain could spread to the USA and/or the rest of the world.  And destroying a nation food supply under a variety of world wide treaty. Is an act of war.  Allowing victim to go to war.  as not be the aggressor nation.  

I am sure the commie bosses in the USSR said to themselves our system is perfect.  crops must be falling because of yankee evil plot.   

 

E really liked Hans.  Not as a asset, but as a friend and comrades in arms.  Question: Hans hit on E before and she said it complicated things. I think it was more along the lines. I like you too much as a friend. E needs a friend more.

 

The KGB was one of the most corrupted agencies in the USSR. Just no one had the guts to tell them.  

Does anyone else think E thinks sex is something that happen against your will?  That why she dso worried about Paige doing it  Phillip just hates the idea of his daughter having sex.  

Do E&P think Paige will scream of in the throws of passion my parents of KGB agents!!  

I think Soviet defector and Asian guy going to end up in the same hole by season end. 

Where pastor Groovey hair at?   Where are (all) of Phillips sons at??  Where the mail robot at?  

Edited March 15, 2017 by gwhh

[AimingforYoko]

6 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Sex lessons from your parents.  Not awkward at all.  At least Paige is getting to hit Elizabeth in the garage from time to time.  Also now every time Paige has sex she is going to think of her parents.  Not awkward at all.

It could have been soooo much worse. When Elizabeth was talking about staying 'in control', I thought she was going to demonstrate something else you could do with your hands.

[One Imaginary Girl]

I laughed out loud when Elizabeth said to the defector and his wife, "We understand." If they only knew.

It didn't occur to me until Stan compared Renee to a female Philip that maybe she's another Soviet agent.  

[Umbelina]

Paige's  story is beginning to bug me in that Dana Brody way.  Yes, I do think they've been more inclusive and this story is about a family as much as it is about spying, if not more...  Still, it's very much looking like Paige is going to be the one to bring them all down.  While the backstory has been sufficient to allow that to happen (the whole KGB insisting they recruit/train her) and after all the FBI lives across the street with a rather convenient teenage boy?  If that is the eventual outcome?

Blech.

Kudos to Stan spotting Paige's weirdness though, though why he wouldn't immediately assume it's the whole first boyfriend, older guy, sex stuff making her act strange is another stretch.  It feels more like the writers read too many message boards where people insisted Stan was dumb (I wasn't one of those) and are now bending over sideways to show that he's a good FBI guy.

Basically?  Not thrilled so far with this season, even if I still believe it's one of the best shows on TV.

Those mosquitoes biting Elizabeth are going to come back to haunt them, aren't they?

I thought Stan's new babe was KGB from the jump, we shall see, it actually won't bother me either way, but throwing another KGB agent on Stan seems like an odd thing to do to Philip and Elizabeth.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Umbelina

[Maire]

Making me feel sorry for Paige? Well done show.

[KaveDweller]

That was like the worst sex talk ever. Poor Paige.

That scene with Elizabeth and the bugs really creeped me out.

[sistermagpie]

16 minutes ago, gwhh said:

E really liked Hans.  Not as a asset, but as a friend and comrades in arms.  Question: Hans hit on E before and she said it complicated things. I think it was more along the lines. I like you too much as a friend. E needs a friend more.

I think it was more of a maternal thing. She trained him and thought of him as a kid.

16 minutes ago, gwhh said:

Does anyone else think E thinks sex is something that happen against your will?  That why she dso worried about Paige doing it  Phillip just hates the idea of his daughter having sex.  

Neither of these things were implied on the show at all. They were both talking about her having sex as a natural, consensual thing. They wouldn't be worried about her blurting out secrets while being raped.

6 minutes ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

It didn't occur to me until Stan compared Renee to a female Philip that maybe she's another Soviet agent.  

That'd be devoting way too much energy to this one guy.

7 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Paige's  story is beginning to bug me in that Dana Brody way.  Yes, I do think they've been more inclusive and this story is about a family as much as it is about spying, if not more...  Still, it's very much looking like Paige is going to be the one to bring them all down. 

When Elizabeth said she was tired of treating her like a kid I thought they were going to tell her Hey, dumbass, you've already made him suspicious. Must you always run headlong to the very thing that will make it worse for you in the long run?

Tuan's really interesting and I can't quite get a handle on exactly what his position is on anything. I assume he's going to want to radicalize (for lack of a better term) Pasha.  I thought he might be happy at Pasha's declaration but instead he just sees is as a further sign of weakness.

Like that the whole family knows Henry's lying and up to something because he's normal. But they're I think obviously building up to a fun reveal there. Stan's certainly been happy to switch from Henry to Paige, especially since Paige brings him Matthew.

I did have a moment of laughing when P&E said they were going to teach Paige a technique imagining them being followed into the room by a line of people looking like the ones Philip had sex with in his flashback in Russia. Now I want to look back at the series for any time P or E rub their fingers together. I wouldn't put it past this show to have it in there.

What's with Philip wanting to whack this guy? Did he just decide to lean into that skid?

[gwhh]

Did anyone else get the feeling. That Stan new lady.  Would be someone from Phillip other job that he run across?  Just the way they showed the set up to her. Like it was going to bigger than it was. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by gwhh

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

That was like the worst sex talk ever. Poor Paige.

That scene with Elizabeth and the bugs really creeped me out.

Considering the training both Philip and Elizabeth went through?  I think the little rubbing fingers together trick was about as MILD as they could possibly make it.

[Knuckles]

I'm with Philip...that woman from the gym was just too much. I don't know who she is working for...but she's working for someone. 

No Mischa...must still be on the bus. And poor Oleg...with Stan's good intentions, Oleg and his folks may be in real trouble. Henry might as well go into witness protection, he seems to have been written out of the plot. And my sympathies to Paige...having Elizabeth as a mother would send me looking for safe space as well.

As for screwing with the food supply...unlikely, but an interesting turn. The Soviets combined decrepit farm machinery, collectivized farms, a lack of fertilizer and general corruption, which often resulted in poor harvests, even in the breadbasket regions of the USSR. The small kitchen gardens, which farmers owned, often outproduced the bigger collectives. So it was not that the farmers themselves were incompetent. But I like the idea...it is cynical and cruelly ingenious.

That said, I despise Tuan. Yes, you did lose your whole family to American bombing...so why get on a boat to come to America? I realize he was a kid, and his choices were limited...but, why leave at all? Why not stay in Vietnam? I would like a fuller explanation of his thinking, just so I could understand his willingness to work with the Russians.  He is the embodiment of biting the hand that feeds you. And why the Russians? Why not head back to Vietnam? I'm puzzled by him.

[benteen]

Really good episode, much better than last week.  Again, the end scene was tense but what happened wasn't as bad as I expected...yet.

Elizabeth and Philip are terrible parents and Philip used to be a good one.  This whole Paige thing is going to blow up in their faces I have no doubt.

Good storyline with Stan trying to save Oleg.

Looks like the Russian B team is going to be a background presence this season.

Good scene with Philip and the Vietnam spy earlier in the episode.

[Umbelina]

So, who else is googling this topic of poisoning grain?  Found this one from a bit over a decade earlier, accidental.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Iraq_poison_grain_disaster 

Interesting, apparently we DID do something with mosquitoes!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomological_warfare#United_States

Quote

The United States seriously researched the potential of entomological warfare during the Cold War. The United States military developed plans for an entomological warfare facility, designed to produce 100 million yellow fever-infected mosquitoes per month.[9] A U.S. Army report[13] titled "Entomological Warfare Target Analysis" listed vulnerable sites within the Soviet Union that the U.S. could attack using entomological vectors.[9] The military also tested the mosquito biting capacity by dropping uninfected mosquitoes over U.S. cities.[9]

[gwhh]

Holy moly.  Stan new babe works for the KGB. Her job is to turn Paige into KGB assets. Since mom and dad will not. Just like that kid last season that killed his whole KGB illegal family because they would not became agent. They used a woman honey trap there also. What better way than to get close to the Jennings. Date Stan!!

 

stan new girl:  theme song! 

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by gwhh

[Umbelina]

I seriously doubt the KGB would compromise Philip and Elizabeth on either Stan or Paige.  Paige is coming along, she's been told, she's doing fight training, it's not as if Philip and Elizabeth haven't been doing exactly what the KGB wants with Paige.  It's also weird to me that they could be double teaming Stan.

New babe may be a spy, but a KGB spy? 

I expect Elizabeth to come down with yellow fever soon though, those mosquitoes are probably more significant than poisoning food...

[gwhh]

Stan new squeeze was on the walking dead. When Stan worked at the CDC. 

She here for 6 episodes:

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0390229/

Edited March 15, 2017 by gwhh

[rose711]

Sorry I don't accept a mother telling her daughter nothing about sex except she does care if she has sex, she just wants her to not be emotional.  And then expect a young girl with no real training to pull it off? 

That is why Paige will completelyhate her mother. She uses Paige as an asset, in fact she probably  better with more respect.' 

[PinkRibbons]

Please tell me there are other X-Files fans here who spent the greenhouse scene yelling "RUN SCULLY, RUN!!! THE BEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!"

Those bugs look like something that bit the crap out of me and my mother a few years back. We never figured out what they were, but the bites swelled enormously and they took absolutely forever to heal. Itched like crazy too.

I was quite surprised to hear Philip suggest plugging that guy, because honestly it's just as likely he's trying to figure out a way to kill those pests as opposed to setting them loose on the unsuspecting Soviets. Early in the episode Philip actually echoed something I said myself when the preview for the ep came up: "Naw, Americans don't fuck with food. I mean there's a line...right?" But then this whole episode is about crossing lines, especially with regards to Oleg.

I wanted to smack Pasha. (And whatever he said*, it was still not strong enough to be translated as "bullshit". I know because if I haven't heard my father use it, it's not real profanity.) I get it, he's angsty all up inside, but someone his age should look around and thank his lucky stars. He's too old to think the USSR was any kind of a wonderful place compared to the USA. As for complaining about Russia, I look at it this way: when you've spent your whole life screaming on the inside, being able to let it out can be the greatest feeling in the world. And frankly, I think that complaining about Russia is like abs. It takes you the same time to lose your abs as it took to get them. So my mother has now been living here for longer than she lived in the USSR (and by the time she was Pasha's age she wanted out, because she looked at the world around her), so she only complains when I ask her specifically to tell me the dirt. My Papa won't have been here longer than there for another few years, so he's still complaining and more power to him. You can't live a whole life of abuse -- being undervalued, overworked, lacking any justice, underfed and underpaid in one of the richest countries in the world, without any free thought and constantly being lied to by people who don't even believe the words coming out of their own mouths -- and let it fester inside you once it's over.

I'll admit that I'm a softy for Pasha's Papa because aside from the fact that my own father is very similar, my grandfather was also an agricultural specialist back in the USSR. He worked more with livestock than crops, but he was still so badly overworked by the Soviets that a heart attack killed him when he was in his fifties, and that was not at all uncommon for anyone in a position of power that actually had to do hard work. "Big Bosses", the people who actually did the work in that country, dropped like flies. Pasha's dad was undoubtedly staring that fate down as well.

But back to the episode. I loved the moment where they come in and Paige is asleep in her closet. It said so much with so little. And I think that her parents are making a surprising misread of the situation. They think Paige is confused by sexy feelings? Stan's noticing her problems because she looks like she's growing an ulcer with every breath. Teach her how to deal with the stress, not just the lying, jeez.

I think Stan's new lady-friend is a misdirect. The scene with her was so awkward and weird that I thought it was just the show showing that life continues to be awkward and weird even while a Cold War is going on. I did love the look on Philip's face at "she's a female you" because I thought, he must be thinking, "aw crap I'm gonna end up having to sleep with you too, aren't I?"

*Edit: He said a word that means "nonsense". "NONSENSE" IS BEING TRANSLATED AS "BULLSHIT"? Does no one think of running this by more than one translator to be accurate? I came up with two different words that could have been used instead and then my father chased me out of the room for swearing like that in his presence.

Edited March 15, 2017 by PinkRibbons

[Auntie Anxiety]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Kudos to Stan spotting Paige's weirdness though, though why he wouldn't immediately assume it's the whole first boyfriend, older guy, sex stuff making her act strange is another stretch. 

If I were Philip in that conversation with Stan, I would have said, "You've never been a teenage girl, have you, Stan? Yeah, neither have I." and left it at that.

[Umbelina]

17 minutes ago, rose711 said:

Sorry I don't accept a mother telling her daughter nothing about sex except she does care if she has sex, she just wants her to not be emotional.  And then expect a young girl with no real training to pull it off? 

That is why Paige will completelyhate her mother. She uses Paige as an asset, in fact she probably  better with more respect.' 

Elizabeth is not a typical US mother though, and her, and Philip's relationship with sex is quite different than most, more realistic in part, and definitely more warped in other ways.  That said, kids of Paige's age had parents that lived in the sixties, free love, birth control pills, and all that.  She wouldn't be the only parent around in the mid eighties that could talk frankly about sex, and not be freaked out by the natural horniness of teenagers.

With the Jennings, they have much more to lose than their daughter's precious virginity.

Title of the show?  PESTS.  I'm more convinced than every that those mosquitoes will play an important role.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Umbelina

[crgirl412]

I could only watch it once since I got home late from work!! 

Interesting at points.  Who were all of the the guys in the car going to the farm?  They were watching Elizabeth, right?  I don't get Tuan either, as someone else mentioned with him thinking Pasha is weaker now?  What does Tuan want from him?? He said that he would rather die in the USSR than live in the US (or something to that effect) that seems to make it clear that he hates the US but likes the USSR. 

Wouldn't it be interesting if Stan's new babe wasn't KGB at all but was working for China or even a friend like West Germany or the UK??  Why would the Soviet union spend so much time and money on Stan by having 3 people working him???

[crgirl412]

20 minutes ago, PinkRibbons said:

Please tell me there are other X-Files fans here who spent the greenhouse scene yelling "RUN SCULLY, RUN!!! THE BEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!"

Those bugs look like something that bit the crap out of me and my mother a few years back. We never figured out what they were, but the bites swelled enormously and they took absolutely forever to heal. Itched like crazy too.

I was quite surprised to hear Philip suggest plugging that guy, because honestly it's just as likely he's trying to figure out a way to kill those pests as opposed to setting them loose on the unsuspecting Soviets. Early in the episode Philip actually echoed something I said myself when the preview for the ep came up: "Naw, Americans don't fuck with food. I mean there's a line...right?" But then this whole episode is about crossing lines, especially with regards to Oleg.

I wanted to smack Pasha. (And whatever he said, it was still not strong enough to be translated as "bullshit". I know because if I haven't heard my father use it, it's not real profanity.) I get it, he's angsty all up inside, but someone his age should look around and thank his lucky stars. He's too old to think the USSR was any kind of a wonderful place compared to the USA. As for complaining about Russia, I look at it this way: when you've spent your whole life screaming on the inside, being able to let it out can be the greatest feeling in the world. And frankly, I think that complaining about Russia is like abs. It takes you the same time to lose your abs as it took to get them. So my mother has now been living here for longer than she lived in the USSR (and by the time she was Pasha's age she wanted out, because she looked at the world around her), so she only complains when I ask her specifically to tell me the dirt. My Papa won't have been here longer than there for another few years, so he's still complaining and more power to him. You can't live a whole life of abuse -- being undervalued, overworked, lacking any justice, underfed and underpaid in one of the richest countries in the world, without any free thought and constantly being lied to by people who don't even believe the words coming out of their own mouths -- and let it fester inside you once it's over.

I'll admit that I'm a softy for Pasha's Papa because aside from the fact that my own father is very similar, my grandfather was also an agricultural specialist back in the USSR. He worked more with livestock than crops, but he was still so badly overworked by the Soviets that a heart attack killed him when he was in his fifties, and that was not at all uncommon for anyone in a position of power that actually had to do hard work. "Big Bosses", the people who actually did the work in that country, dropped like flies. Pasha's dad was undoubtedly staring that fate down as well.

But back to the episode. I loved the moment where they come in and Paige is asleep in her closet. It said so much with so little. And I think that her parents are making a surprising misread of the situation. They think Paige is confused by sexy feelings? Stan's noticing her problems because she looks like she's growing an ulcer with every breath. Teach her how to deal with the stress, not just the lying, jeez.

I think Stan's new lady-friend is a misdirect. The scene with her was so awkward and weird that I thought it was just the show showing that life continues to be awkward and weird even while a Cold War is going on. I did love the look on Philip's face at "she's a female you" because I thought, he must be thinking, "aw crap I'm gonna end up having to sleep with you too, aren't I?"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[numbersix]

Interesting to see so many people thinking that Stan set up an operation to help Oleg and defy the CIA's attempts to turn him. My read was that the CIA dropped Stan's name in the hope of luring Oleg to meet with them. Curious to hear arguments for both interpretations.

[Umbelina]

22 minutes ago, numbersix said:

Interesting to see so many people thinking that Stan set up an operation to help Oleg and defy the CIA's attempts to turn him. My read was that the CIA dropped Stan's name in the hope of luring Oleg to meet with them. Curious to hear arguments for both interpretations.

I agree with that, but instead of "lure" I'd say to set up the blackmail threat so he would appear at the proposed meeting.

[Bama]

Yeah, has Stan even had time to get someone in Moscow to warn Oleg?  It seemed like this episode took place over a week or so.  I would think finding an American in Moscow to undermine the plans of the CIA would take a bit more than a phone call or two.

I think the American who approached Oleg is part of the CIA's plan to squeeze Oleg and they used Stan's name to threaten him so he would show up to the meet.  The CIA agent who met with Stan was trying to get info on how to finesse Oleg into fully "turning".  When Stan shut that down, I figure the CIA just went with the brute force option - "Yo Oleg.  We know what you did last summer.  You work for us now or you and your whole family will be off to the gulag."

Stan's going to have a come apart when he finds out the CIA is using his name as a weapon.

[Bannon]

If the U.S. was going to attack the U.S.S.R., by ruining grain, they wouldn't be developing the weapon  in an unguarded greenhouse on an illinois farm, with a Masterlock on the door of the greenhouse, to keep outsiders away.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Bannon

[minamurray78]

I too think them dropping Stan's name was just a way to let Oleg know from where and what kind of info they got on him.

I'd like to see what happens when they officially try to induct Paige into the kgb fold, and she flat out refuses. At least I hope she does. There's a difference between lying to protect your parents and family, and doing what they do, and there is still TONS she doesn't know about. I just can't picture her embracing the cause like Elizabeth does, and pulling a con like her mother did with Young Hee or her father with Martha.

I'm getting irritated with E & P's irritation with Pasha's father. Japan and Germany were devastated after the war too, but 40 years later I don't think their citizens were still forming in line for rations. I imagine after +20 years outside living a fake life, they yearn for their homeland despite knowing the hardships, and perhaps after the shit they have done and been through, Pasha's Father's anger and desdain feels like a slap in their faces. But still, the man has a right to his anger, and his complaints are valid.

I don't care how it happens, but Oleg has to make it throught this. Somehow I got too invested in his character and his family, I just want someone to make it safe out of the clutches of espionage/counterespionage, and wherever Martha is, I hope she's thriving (will be ever get to see her again? or Henry lol).

[Quando]

It seems pretty clear to me what must be going on in that greenhouse.  The Russian defector is helping to develop new strains of wheat that are more bug-resistant.  The first few rows of dead wheat that Elizabeth saw in the greenhouse consisted of "regular" strains of wheat that were included in the experiment as the baseline and "control."  The next several rows of wheat that were green and seemed to be growing fine consisted of the experimental wheat strain or strains that were altered or engineered in ways that the scientists hope will make them more resistant to bugs and disease.  Then the scientists intentionally spray a ton of grain-killing bugs into the greenhouse to see which engineered strains grow most successfully despite all the bugs.  The purpose of the experiment is to develop stronger strains of wheat that can resist bug infestation -- not to develop a method for sabotaging Russian crops.  As Bannon noted above (just beat me to the punch), if this really was a covert CIA base for developing entomological weapons to sabotage Russian grain, there is simply no way it would be kept in an ordinary glass greenhouse, right off a public road, with nothing but a $2 padlock on the door.  No guard?  No deadbolt?  No bars on the windows?  No alarm? No dogs?  No security cameras?  Not even a gate or chain across the driveway to the farm blocking traffic from the main road?  No way.  I predict that E&P will take some rash action based on the assumption that this is a weapon meant to sabotage Russian grain (maybe even kill the defector guy), only to find out later that the defector was actually trying to help Russia by developing better strains of wheat that would be shared with Russia -- i.e., that he was trying to help the Russian food crisis not make it worse, and P&E killed him for it.

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Quando said:

It seems pretty clear to me what must be going on in that greenhouse.  The Russian defector is helping to develop new strains of wheat that are more bug-resistant.  The first few rows of dead wheat that Elizabeth saw in the greenhouse consisted of "regular" strains of wheat that were included in the experiment as the baseline and "control."  The next several rows of wheat that were green and seemed to be growing fine consisted of the experimental wheat strain or strains that were altered or engineered in ways that the scientists hope will make them more resistant to bugs and disease.  Then the scientists intentionally spray a ton of grain-killing bugs into the greenhouse to see which engineered strains grow most successfully despite all the bugs.  The purpose of the experiment is to develop stronger strains of wheat that can resist bug infestation -- not to develop a method for sabotaging Russian crops.  As Bannon noted above (just beat me to the punch), if this really was a covert CIA base for developing entomological weapons to sabotage Russian grain, there is simply no way it would be kept in an ordinary glass greenhouse, right off a public road, with nothing but a $2 padlock on the door.  No guard?  No deadbolt?  No bars on the windows?  No alarm? No dogs?  No security cameras?  Not even a gate or chain across the driveway to the farm blocking traffic from the main road?  No way.  I predict that E&P will take some rash action based on the assumption that this is a weapon meant to sabotage Russian grain (maybe even kill the defector guy), only to find out later that the defector was actually trying to help Russia by developing better strains of wheat that would be shared with Russia -- i.e., that he was trying to help the Russian food crisis not make it worse, and P&E killed him for it.

If that scenario plays out, then the writers have decided to make E & P morons, along with most of the people who staff the FBI and CIA. I hope not, because if the writers are going to make all the characters stupid, there isn't much reason to stick with the show.

I fear that the end of the Martha story arc, and the wonderful actor who played her, has rendered this show far less compelling.

[scrb]

Yeah I tend to think Soviet paranoia about US attacking them, just like after Reagan was shot, they thought the US might strike the USSR.

There's really not much preventing those bugs from getting out of that greenhouse and damaging valuable crops in Illinois and surrounding states.

US was selling grain to the USSR.  If they sabotaged that grain, it would hurt exports worldwide.  Those farmers wouldn't be too happy and they'd vote against the party responsible for it.

So Oleg's boss thinks it's corruption, Gabriel and the Center thinks it's US sabotaging grains the USSR was buying from the US.  Excuses for their economic  problems and failures to provide for their people.

[Umbelina]

Japan and Germany received significant US aid to rebuild, but I don't think that happened with Russia.  Feel free to correct me.  I don't feel like googling, but I'm sure of the Germany and Japan aid.  I think we parted ways with Russia fairly early on after the war.

Philip and Elizabeth, and possibly even the KGB don't really intend for Paige to do "what her parents do."  The plan is for her to be placed in a sensitive position, but considering the desperation of the USSR in the eighties, we all realize that if the show really went on that long, Paige would be expected to do some of what her parents do without question.  As William said, the Center back in the USSR doesn't understand the USA, let alone the people here.  I'd be shocked if it ever gets that far with Paige on this show.  The USSR is nearing collapse already.  Speaking of that, anyone get an idea of what year we are in now?  84 still?

I want them to get into Henry's story, even if he does tower over the rest of the cast now, as has been mentioned.  He always seemed the more likely child to recruit. 

 

ETA I assume it will be Misha's other son that takes a center plot though.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Umbelina

[HollyG]

On 3/14/2017 at 8:49 PM, Knuckles said:

I'm with Philip...that woman from the gym was just too much. I don't know who she is working for...but she's working for someone. 

No Mischa...must still be on the bus. And poor Oleg...with Stan's good intentions, Oleg and his folks may be in real trouble. Henry might as well go into witness protection, he seems to have been written out of the plot. And my sympathies to Paige...having Elizabeth as a mother would send me looking for safe space as well.

 

Yep, gym lady is up to something. I'm wondering if she's CIA... or maybe an FBI agent doing an internal investigation on Stan to see if he's crossed any lines with the Oleg case.

Misha is taking the longest bus ride in history! 

Edited March 18, 2017 by HollyG

[albaniantv]

The gym lady chilled me a bit too, but agree with those who questioned the sense of piling all that KGB staff on Stan. Then I thought maybe the FBI hired her to see what Stan's real attachment to Oleg is, since that seems to mystify Stan's bosses. But that's expensive and complicated. It's simpler if she is just interested in Stan, falls for him and attracts the attention of ----Henry! Remember how Henry developed such a thing for Stan's wife, has a picture of her in some secret box somewhere. Didn't he also break into their house once to watch tv--I can barely remember, but it was intense. 

So how about if adolescence falls heavily on dear Henry and he develops a case on Stan's new girlfriend. Philip and Elizabeth and Paige intervene and direct him elsewhere and just like that other kid of illegals, he explode and murders them? That of course would be the end. No, it doesn't sound like our writers. But, I'm watching Henry as closely as possible...definitely some reason this kid has been given no story for so long. 

We have to still be in 1984 because Chernenko's picture was on the wall tonight. Next up, Gorbachev in early 85 when Chernenko dies in office, just like his short lived predecessor, a KGB spook called Andropov.

Too tired to google but am pretty sure it was Stalin who would not let USSR or EE satellites get aid through our Marshall Plan. Hence all that concrete bloc architecture.

[kokapetl]

5 hours ago, gwhh said:

Did anyone else get the feeling. That Stan new lady.  Would be someone from Phillip other job that he run across?  Just the way they showed the set up to her. Like it was going to bigger than it was. 

She's way too hot for Stan. But so was his wife. Perhaps Stan is not quite as ugly as Noah Emmerich.  

I laughed when Tuan took the Bennigans leftovers.  

[shura]

1 hour ago, HollyG said:

Misha is taking the longest bus ride in history!

Right? He started during the winter Olympics, it's already fall now with falling leaves and all, and Misha is nowhere to be seen!

I am wondering about Oleg. He is a spy, he must be aware that the CIA is going to try to develop him in some way since he has exposed himself by committing treason. Was his plan simply to go to Moscow and not think about that anymore?

[Umbelina]

Henry broke into a different neighbor's house, and has his secret box of stuff carefully secured under floorboards.  He's a born spy!  Ha. 

The CIA can't spy on US citizens on US soil, it's a pretty big no no.  She could be FBI though if they are doubting Stan, or even if they want to get some bedroom talk from him that would give them more information on his relationship with Oleg.  That seems like a huge stretch though, since the FBI and CIA weren't exactly freely sharing information or even "working together" that much back then, but I guess it's possible.

15 minutes ago, shura said:

Right? He started during the winter Olympics, it's already fall now with falling leaves and all, and Misha is nowhere to be seen!

I am wondering about Oleg. He is a spy, he must be aware that the CIA is going to try to develop him in some way since he has exposed himself by committing treason. Was his plan simply to go to Moscow and not think about that anymore?

Well, unless I missed it, which is totally possible, Misha jr. doesn't have any clue what state his daddy is in, and back then there was a travel agent every few miles in metro areas, and usually a couple of them even in small or mid sized towns.

I'm not sure about Oleg, I think he trusted Stan quite a bit, and thought the risk was worth it, since he didn't believe the USSR was even remotely equipped to deal with such a dangerous pathogen.  They didn't even have bottles that had lids with threads that would keep them tight enough to not leak after all.  Oleg was more recently from the USSR, and was dealing with tech inadequacies so he'd probably be even more aware than William of their problems.  So, Oleg took a chance and gambled on Stan being a decent guy and grateful for such a huge tip.  Which, by the way, Stan has proven to be.

I don't want to go back to that commentary on the RED DVD by former CIA guy Bob Baer, but here I go again.  There was cooperation between spies back then, favors owed, favors collected, between CIA and KGB officers, not that they ever really trusted each other completely, but they didn't really kill each other either.  Stan's FBI though.  Still Oleg's trust wasn't really misplaced there, well, except for the part about Stan doing very thorough reports, which is how the CIA knew they could go after him.   I'm still pretty surprised that the FBI shared that with the CIA, unless someone at the FBI really wanted a favor from the CIA, or was so rabidly anti-Russian that he gave the information away just to get Oleg.  Maybe a power struggle inside the FBI?  Or someone in the FBI that really wanted to screw Stan.

That would probably be a bit too complex even for this show though.

 

I wonder who she is?  Maybe Mi6 if they suspected infiltration of the FBI that was impacting them, but I have no idea if Briton would spy on someone in the FBI...seems like another stretch. 

ETA again.

I guess the CIA could break all rules and spy on Stan to help their operation with Oleg, or even to make sure Stan didn't fuck it up for them by getting treasonous himself and trying to warn Oleg.  Still seems like a huge stretch, and if they are being so cooperative with the FBI, why not have the FBI check out Stan's loyalty instead?  Stan was VERY attached to Nina after all, and went to great lengths to try and save her, and he didn't report all of his contact with Oleg right away either.  So, Stan being under a certain amount of suspicion makes a bit of sense.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Umbelina

[kokapetl]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Japan and Germany received significant US aid to rebuild, but I don't think that happened with Russia.  Feel free to correct me.  I don't feel like googling, but I'm sure of the Germany and Japan aid.  I think we parted ways with Russia fairly early on after the war.

Philip and Elizabeth, and possibly even the KGB don't really intend for Paige to do "what her parents do."  The plan is for her to be placed in a sensitive position, but considering the desperation of the USSR in the eighties, we all realize that if the show really went on that long, Paige would be expected to do some of what her parents do without question.  As William said, the Center back in the USSR doesn't understand the USA, let alone the people here.  I'd be shocked if it ever gets that far with Paige on this show.  The USSR is nearing collapse already.  Speaking of that, anyone get an idea of what year we are in now?  84 still?

I want them to get into Henry's story, even if he does tower over the rest of the cast now, as has been mentioned.  He always seemed the more likely child to recruit. 

 

ETA I assume it will be Misha's other son that takes a center plot though.

Losing a war tends to eliminate parasitic rent seeking, plus I think receiving US aid was made conditional on agreeing to pay West German creditors first, and Germany is/was the manufacturing powerhouse of Europe, a crippled West Germany was linked to a crippled Western Europe fairly early on. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Kokapetl

[dr pepper]

Huh. The KGB uses neurolinguistic programming?

[Chaos Theory]

P&E are bound to have some twisted ideas about sex and what love can turn you into.  Their entire job is to twist love and sex into weapons so I can see them being afraid that someone untrained like Paige in the middle of her first love and unsure of her loyalties would blab to a pretty boy who was nice to her

[Umbelina]

11 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

P&E are bound to have some twisted ideas about sex and what love can turn you into.  Their entire job is to twist love and sex into weapons so I can see them being afraid that someone untrained like Paige in the middle of her first love and unsure of her loyalties would blab to a pretty boy who was nice to her

Paige has already blabbed once, and she wasn't even a teenager in love for the first time.  I think she'd let something slip, and I think that's what her parents are worried about as well.  In addition, Paige hasn't had their training, and look what Philip just did with Martha, exposed his real self to her, for example.  If someone as trained and experienced as Philip could screw up, what are the odds with a hormonal teenage girl with an FBI agent's son?  On top of that, she absolutely made it clear that she doesn't want to live in Russia, and she's doesn't think her brother would either, so she has motivation there as well.  We just watched another teenager murder his entire family to stay with his "love" after all, and it wasn't that long ago.

I don't really blame P and E for telling Paige though, between getting orders and her demands to know THE TRUTH, they were almost forced to, the former more than the latter.

Stan asking about Paige's weirdness certainly didn't squelch any concerns.  He's a trained interrogator, and if Paige told her secret or even made a slip, some close, careful, friendly questioning of his son could bring them all down.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Umbelina

[dr pepper]

I also think that Stan's girlfriend is an agent. I also think that she and Phil beeped each others spydar when they met.

[SlackerInc]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Tuan's really interesting and I can't quite get a handle on exactly what his position is on anything. I assume he's going to want to radicalize (for lack of a better term) Pasha.  I thought he might be happy at Pasha's declaration but instead he just sees is as a further sign of weakness.

Yeah, I was intrigued and puzzled by that, as well as what he said to Philip when they were cleaning out the gutters and Philip was worrying out loud what would happen if his cover didn't stand up to intense scrutiny:

"I'm like one of them.  Do you know what the Communists did to my country?"

Wait, what?  Like one of whom?  

7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I expect Elizabeth to come down with yellow fever soon though, those mosquitoes are probably more significant than poisoning food...

Everyone's calling them mosquitoes, but mosquitoes don't affect crops AFAIK.  I assumed they were some other kind of bug.

5 hours ago, numbersix said:

Interesting to see so many people thinking that Stan set up an operation to help Oleg and defy the CIA's attempts to turn him. My read was that the CIA dropped Stan's name in the hope of luring Oleg to meet with them. Curious to hear arguments for both interpretations.

Huh, I didn't even think of any other interpretation (besides your read, I mean).  I did wonder if Stan might try to figure out a way to get a message to Oleg to warn him (and apologize); but if he did, I'm sure it would have to be via telegram or something since there's no way Stan would know any Americans hanging out in Moscow.

4 hours ago, Bannon said:

If the U.S. was going to attack the U.S.S.R., by ruining grain, they wouldn't be developing the weapon  in an unguarded greenhouse on an illinois farm, with a Masterlock on the door of the greenhouse, to keep outsiders away.

I get this criticism, but this isn't the Lassa virus.  It's more of a low grade thing and in the middle of millions of acres of farmland, one greenhouse is the proverbial needle in a haystack--unless you have some really clever KGB agents tailing a certain guy on a certain day (I loved how they switched off as to which vehicle was behind him so as not to attract attention).

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Japan and Germany received significant US aid to rebuild, but I don't think that happened with Russia.  Feel free to correct me.  I don't feel like googling, but I'm sure of the Germany and Japan aid.  I think we parted ways with Russia fairly early on after the war.

Philip and Elizabeth, and possibly even the KGB don't really intend for Paige to do "what her parents do."  The plan is for her to be placed in a sensitive position, but considering the desperation of the USSR in the eighties, we all realize that if the show really went on that long, Paige would be expected to do some of what her parents do without question.

Agree on the Marshall Plan aid.  I also agree with the first part of what you said about Paige.  But I don't agree that they would have ended up wanting her to do almost any of what her parents do.  Having a second generation illegal deep inside a sensitive agency like the FBI or CIA would be so valuable, they would be more than happy to have her simply provide secret briefings to a handler from time to time, and leave other jobs to first-gen illegals like the digging helpers, the guy who was switching off with Elizabeth tailing the car, etc.  I would even think that once Paige got into one of those agencies, they'd want her parents to retire or at least seriously curtail their activities so as not to risk them getting caught and thereby jeopardizing Paige's position.

36 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

We just watched another teenager murder his entire family to stay with his "love" after all, and it wasn't that long ago.

Ugh, don't remind me.  That was the one serious misstep this show's writers have ever made.

[Chaos Theory]

I think "Pests" is an interesting name because if isnt just used to name the bugs.  Like when the title was "The Rat" it obviously was the rat that P&E handed over but it was also meant to signify Martha.  Pests could mean the CIA which were pestering two good men.  Stan doesn't want to play dirty anymore and despite everything Oleg is a good guy as well but the CIA is willing to play dirty to get what they want.  

Edited March 15, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Umbelina]

I thought they were mosquitoes from the buzzing and the slapping at them.  You don't really slap at bees or hornets, that infuriates them more. 

Also, yeah, the title, and also that 1971 plan I linked above that the USA was involved with, something about yellow fever as a weapon for us overseas. 

The whole grain thing could just be paranoia, something the USSR could have suspected, because they didn't exactly trust us, and food is obviously such an issue and vulnerability, or maybe it has something to do with Pasha's dad's work in the USSR?  Hard to tell...but I want them to step up the pace again to previous season levels.  If it's all going to hang on Paige's romantic life being the biggest bad this season, I'll be bummed.

[benteen]

The one shot of Henry that we see, he looks like a 20-year-old giant.

[Umbelina]

I googled him and a fairly recent entry says he's only 5'5" tall.  I don't think so...  Still, boys can shoot up in height at that age (obviously) and I like him more than the eyebrow actress, so I hope they start to use him.  Probably not....

[Chaos Theory]

Tuan confuses me.  He seemes to hates Americans and Communists.  What is he doing with the Jennings?  He knows he is working for the Russians.  Is it some weird Stockholm thing?  Does he view the people who murdered his parents as strong and he wants to be that strong to and does he view the Americans as weak and soft?  

Tusn confuses me.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Chaos Theory