S01.E17: What Now?

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

But don't we know he died when the kids were teens? Jail time and cirrhosis would take a pretty long time. I can't see them going that way, or suicide, but I guess we'll find out next week. Or not. 

Yeah, I think cirrhosis would take too long but I was thinking like a 6-12 month sentence or something.  Or really just some sort of domino effect of events that Kate could feel responsible for but that wouldn't literally be part of this trip.  Something that would give him time to teach the kids to drive.  Though I guess if the trip leads to divorce which leads to drinking which leads to death, that'd work, too.  

I can envision scenarios where Rebecca leaves him but then chooses to wear the moon necklace again after he's gone, especially since Miguel loves Jack, too.  It would take just one heart-to-heart on a bathroom floor about what a great man he was, he just couldn't beat the drinking, he touched all their lives, yadda yadda.

[SlackerInc]

I am cautiously giving the writers the benefit of the doubt and assuming they just didn't want to show two funerals in 1 episode even if one was a "fun-eral".  Had I not been reading stuff here I would be 99% sure that he died from drunk driving to go see Rebecca. Now I am only 70% sure.  But I will still be surprised and very annoyed if they inserted an unnecessary fakeout here.

[methodwriter85]

We know definitively that it's 1996- it could be the winter of 1996, at which the teens would be still be 15, but the vibe has been fall, which means the triplets are 16. In a previous episode, Rebecca DID say she's been a mother for 16 years.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

We know definitively that it's 1996- it could be the winter of 1996, at which the teens would be still be 15, but the vibe has been fall, which means the triplets are 16. In a previous episode, Rebecca DID say she's been a mother for 16 years.

But I think we only know Jack dies while they're still teens, so that could be up to '99 or so, right?  Kate saying he loved the story about teaching Randall to drive suggests he didn't die at this point.  I suppose he could've taught them to drive 6 months ago and we just haven't seen any of them driving yet, and he loved to tell a story for 6 months, then died.  

[sasha206]

Is it bad that I'm hoping he sees Rebecca and former love making googley eyes at each other on stage, accidentally kills former love in a bar fight, kills himself before trial?  

[SlackerInc]

LOL...yes, I think that is probably a little bad.  But hey, bad can be good.  ;-)

[voiceover]

On 3/7/2017 at 9:26 PM, Arcadiasw said:

With the exception of the pilot, the show made it appear Randall was only wanted for the skills he brought to the company 

Isn't that the main reason any (non-celeb) is hired?

Not defending his firm, but my guess is that he wasn't hired on account of his good looks & charm.

Of course, that's why *I'd* hire him, but I'm a shallow thing who whined that the previous ep-shower shot of Sterling needed to be a bit wider.

[DollEyes]

On 3/8/2017 at 0:37 PM, talktoomuch said:

I guess it really all depends on your expectations from a corporation. In some companies, such expressions of sympathy are pro forma, and the activity of ordering and delivery is done remotely by an HR and/or administrative person. There would be no personal card and likely no record of preferences for the recipient. 

Randall works in finance, right? So my assumption would be he works for that kind of company. Of course, that wouldn't and doesn't preclude individuals from more personal expressions of their own.

 Since according to Randall, he helped build the company in the first place, IMO they should at least have shown him enough respect to have given him proper condolences for William's death and not given Randall something that they knew he was not only allergic to, it almost killed him. That Randall's fellow colleagues didn't bother to send him individual condolences of their own only made his decision to quit even easier to make. Between losing William again and almost losing his mind, the last thing Randall needed was another near-death experience on top of all that.

[Guest]

I think it's just a company culture thing.  One of my employers does nothing and never has, under multiple media conglomerate parent companies.  Another also does nothing at the employer level but a manager takes it upon herself to organize cards that people sign and often little collection plates.  I'm not a fan.  I'm often presented with cards for people I've never even met.  I'm lucky to not get sick or share my tales of loss and to have a mid-summer birthday (it's a college) so I don't get cards.  But if I did I would know everyone was handed a card to sign and it wouldn't mean all that much, because it's practically a daily occurrence -- the 'sign this and mark your name off' thing.  And I for sure don't want my coworkers shaken down to throw in some cash toward a gift card.

So, the pears and note, I would've found that a sweet gesture and laughed at the pear allergy oversight. 

[methodwriter85]

18 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

But I think we only know Jack dies while they're still teens, so that could be up to '99 or so, right?  Kate saying he loved the story about teaching Randall to drive suggests he didn't die at this point.  I suppose he could've taught them to drive 6 months ago and we just haven't seen any of them driving yet, and he loved to tell a story for 6 months, then died.  

Dan Folgelman said specifically that he dies when they're 16 or 17, which could take us up to summer 1998.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

Dan Folgelman said specifically that he dies when they're 16 or 17, which could take us up to summer 1998.

Moving reply to spec thread...

Edited March 11, 2017 by Guest

[betha]

On 3/7/2017 at 10:17 PM, talktoomuch said:

Not the pears specifically. I meant the dispassionate impersonal gift + card that businesses tend to send for occasions. 

Seriously- it was clear none of the writers ever worked an office job. Took me out of it because I couldn't understand why they were upset. Until he said he was allergic. But that didn't seem why they were mad.

[possibilities]

On 3/8/2017 at 0:37 PM, talktoomuch said:

I guess it really all depends on your expectations from a corporation. In some companies, such expressions of sympathy are pro forma, and the activity of ordering and delivery is done remotely by an HR and/or administrative person. There would be no personal card and likely no record of preferences for the recipient. 

Randall works in finance, right? So my assumption would be he works for that kind of company. Of course, that wouldn't and doesn't preclude individuals from more personal expressions of their own.

I don't view it as being so much about what a person would expect from the situation, as it being about what he wanted. Randall worked there for a while and previously he said he liked it. But he's changing, and he wants something different now. It's been becoming a problem for a while, and the pears/card was the moment that most embodied the impersonality of the situation, but I don't think it was that particular gift that made him want to leave. I think it was just symbolic of something much larger about the job, that he no longer wanted for himself.

If you can afford to quit what you're doing and figure out something else, there's nothing wrong with doing that. Meeting William resolved something he'd been carrying around inside himself for his entire life. Lots of times a major death or other significant event will change people. Randall is in the enviable position of having a boatload of money and transferrable skills, so he's able to decide to leave. So if he wants to be able to relax more, and focus on situations where he feels more warmth and personal connection, I say good for him. I wish everyone had the ability to do what they wanted instead of staying where they aren't happy.

Ron Howard or no Ron Howard, if Kevin is going to work as an actor, he's going to have to take roles, and they won't all be in NYC. He and Sophie will have to face that sooner or later, so they might as well face it now. I agree it's bad timing and they should have talked about it before it happened, so that's where I'm feeling some judgment about impulsive behavior; They apparently have been dating exclusively without discussing the issues that led to their previous divorce. That's pretty stupid.

I don't usually mind Toby, but I agreed his lewd remark was annoying this episode.

I agree Kate was unaccepetably rude on the phone, and it was also a red flag to me that she was angry that Toby was trying to support her when she was crying at the memorial. But I also like angry Kate so much more than whiny Kate, so I hope she doesn't go back to being sullen and wimpy just because she needs to stop being rude and unreasonable.

Teen Kate did not have anything to do with Jack deciding to get drunk, let alone his decision to drive once he did so. I know we torment ourselves with guilt over things that are not our fault (that's "bargaining" in the language of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, by the way), but Jack is the only person responsible for his drinking and his drunk driving, not Kate.

If they have Jack drive drunk and nothing bad happens, that will be annoying to me. I don't need this to be what kills him, but I don't want it to be one of the show's big, ain't he wonderful, romantic gestures-- driving drunk should not be part of his greatness.

Despite my crankiness, I did like the episode in many ways.

[breezy424]

Well, here's the question.  What 'was' Randall's 'position' at the company?  We've seen conflicting stories.  At the Christmas party he was presented as just another 'employee' who had to find his bonus on the floor.  Then we him being a partner.  Then we have have him saying he was there from the start and brought in the vast majority of the clients.  Either the writers are no paying attention or they don't care about inconsistencies.   This sort of stuff just bugs me because there is a simple solution....  Pick a lane.

I don't believe (at this point) that Jack drove the two hours to see Rebecca perform and somehow died in an auto accident.  It's just too obvious.  There's something else that happened.  And given the facts we've learned, it wasn't too long after that night.  There's something more and that is why Kate is feeling so guilty.  Will we get the answer in the season finale?  I doubt it.  We'll probably get a teaser.

[Amethyst]

On 3/8/2017 at 0:54 PM, luna1122 said:

Now see, as someone who has been, at least in part, basically in customer service my whole life, my first reaction was 'what a fucking bitch'. She hadn't spoken to 'tammy' yet, so to be so nasty and combative right outa the gate seemed really hateful and entitled and out of line. 

Good Lord, same here.  That was not Kate's finest moment.  The former CSR in me just winced at that line.  I wouldn't have blamed the woman for saying "Nope, guess I can't help you", and hanging up.  

I know a lot of people are saying that it was Kate's grief and stress spilling over, but I don't think it was just that.  She worked as an assistant for a high profile star on a well-known tv series, so being pushy is part of the job requirement.  I can believe she's behaved that way before.

 

On 3/9/2017 at 4:07 PM, MaiSoCalled said:

It's unfortunate that this was cut, because a moment from Kevin was really missing for me. We saw moments between Kevin and William earlier in the season and the two lived together. I know that Kevin was distracted with his own plot and they probably didn't want to overuse the actor at the expense of other cast members, but I would have liked to see this scene.

IA.  I remembered that Kevin used to call William the "wise owl" and that scene felt felt like a missed opportunity for him to mention what William had meant to him.  But I think they wanted to keep the focus on Beth for the fun-eral.

[SlackerInc]

6 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

I know a lot of people are saying that it was Kate's grief and stress spilling over, but I don't think it was just that.  She worked as an assistant for a high profile star on a well-known tv series, so being pushy is part of the job requiremen t.  I can believe she's behaved that way before.

Definitely.  And I'm very curious to know how the writers and directors think about these things.  Do they know Kate often comes across as unpleasant and abrasive?  Conversely, did they intend Randall's rival Sanjay to increasingly seem more sympathetic than he first appeared to be?  I'm currently feeling generous toward the show, so I cautiously answer both in the affirmative.  If I'm correct, that is impressively nuanced for TV, especially network TV.  But this show has been hamhanded at other times, especially midseason, so I'm bracing for the possibility that I'm giving them too much credit.

[jhlipton]

I was definitely feeling Kate when she mocked Tammy.  First, you have to make your way through 20 steps just to talk to a "representative" (often someone in Bangalore who you can barely understand).  If you're lucky, you'll get passed along to someone higher up and have to repeat Every Single Detail of your request.  2 hours later, you get Tammy (who is really Tamanatha), with her chirpy "Can I help you?"

Customer Service sucks, but I'm sure that even (former) CSR's have been on hold, listening to the same three ads over and over and over, and hoping you don't get the CSR who feels like their doing you the world's greatest favor just by talking to you.

[SlackerInc]

I would cut her a lot more slack on this if it were a slightly different scenario, that I have dealt with before.  For instance, just recently my cell phone company cut off my service because I had not updated the expiration date on my VISA debit card.  A bunch of other companies had emailed me to remind me about this in advance, but they never did and I didn't think to be proactive about it.  Okay, my bad: so I call in to try to get them to update that and get things going again.  But this Bangalorian (Bangaloran?  Bangalorite?) kept insisting that my card was "declined" most likely because I had insufficient funds in my account or it was just an invalid card number.  I kept trying to explain but he just persisted in that line, and said I had better go in to my bank and sort it out with them.  Aargh.  (I hung up very frustrated, went to their website, as I probably should have done from the beginning, put in the new expiration date, and everything was back to normal.)

Point being, if Kate had already been talking to the person she yelled at, and was getting the runaround (another thing I hate is when they mirror back to you from some script "I'm so sorry to hear you are having trouble today" but don't offer anything constructive to fix the trouble), then sure: go at it.  But if this is the first moment Tammy had talked to her, as it sounded like, then the way she acted was not cool.

[MsJamieDornan]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 11:06 AM, qtpye said:

I am beginning to think that Kate is not a nice person

She's not.

[WearyTraveler]

I've worked in plenty of offices, and since I'm a consultant, I've also had the chance to see how tons of offices in a variety of industries handle funerals and birthdays. It differs widely.  I'm sure software developers don't think IBM and Google are the same when it comes to employee culture.

I don't think I would be surprised by the office just sending a perfunctory detail, to fulfill their obligation in the social contract we tacitly enter when we interact with other people, but I do think that if I had a choice, I might go to a company with a culture that I'd find more to my liking.  The thing with the pears is that the way these things go is that the boss will tell the secretary to get something for the person, usually there is a policy in place, the expense has to be approved, and a good secretary will ask the boss what his/her preferred option is within the policy.  So, the secretary could ask "do you want to send flowers or a basket of fruit?".  The point is, everyone, including the boss is aware of the policy, and they know what has been sent in the past.

So, Randall's boss could have said something to the secretary before asking for something to be sent.  It would have been as simple as: "if we are sending fruit, make sure there are no pears, Randall is allergic".  30 seconds. He wasn't going to waste his entire work day on it, but obviously the guy completely forgot, or didn't care to begin with, so, I think it's natural that Randall feels he's just a little work-horse and that people in this company don't care if he's hurting, all they care about is that he give them everything he has.  Now, business is business, and it may be that companies really only should care about that, and we should all leave the personal stuff out, but studies have shown that people are more productive, more loyal, and just all around better employees when they feel they are being treated well, respected and happy in their jobs.  So, it behooves the company to do better by its employees, because, in the end, it would be good for business too.

I had a employee once who had a death in the family and I made sure to tell the secretary not to send flowers because I knew through a past conversation with them that their culture didn't have the custom of having flowers in a funeral.  But that was a small company where everyone knew everyone else, so, it might have just been easier for us to be aware of these things.

Edited March 12, 2017 by WearyTraveler

[Guest]

6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I was definitely feeling Kate when she mocked Tammy.  First, you have to make your way through 20 steps just to talk to a "representative" (often someone in Bangalore who you can barely understand).  If you're lucky, you'll get passed along to someone higher up and have to repeat Every Single Detail of your request.  2 hours later, you get Tammy (who is really Tamanatha), with her chirpy "Can I help you?"

Customer Service sucks, but I'm sure that even (former) CSR's have been on hold, listening to the same three ads over and over and over, and hoping you don't get the CSR who feels like their doing you the world's greatest favor just by talking to you.

Sure, calling Citibank or something, but balloons?  I assumed it was some small local store.  But I've never ordered balloons over the phone.

This is nitpicky but another thing I didn't like about that scene was Metz' big hand gestures while on the phone.  I know some people do that, but paired with the supremely annoyed voice and the snippy dialog, it was just hammy and over the top to me.  

4 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

I've worked in plenty of offices, and since I'm a consultant, I've also had the chance to see how tons of offices in a variety of industries handle funerals and birthdays. It differs widely.  I'm sure software developers don't think IBM and Google are the same when it comes to employee culture.

I don't think I would be surprised by the office just sending a perfunctory detail, to fulfill their obligation in the social contract we tacitly enter when we interact with other people, but I do think that if I had a choice, I might go to a company with a culture that I'd find more to my liking.  The thing with the pears is that the way these things go is that the boss will tell the secretary to get something for the person, usually there is a policy in place, the expense has to be approved, and a good secretary will ask the boss what his/her preferred option is within the policy.  So, the secretary could ask "do you want to send flowers or a basket of fruit?".  The point is, everyone, including the boss is aware of the policy, and they know what has been sent in the past.

So, Randall's boss could have said something to the secretary before asking for something to be sent.  It would have been as simple as: "if we are sending fruit, make sure there are no pears, Randall is allergic".  30 seconds. He wasn't going to waste his entire work day on it, but obviously the guy completely forgot, or didn't care to begin with, so, I think it's natural that Randall feels he's just a little work-horse and that people in this company don't care if he's hurting, all they care about is that he give them everything he has.  Now, business is business, and it may be that companies really only should care about that, and we should all leave the personal stuff out, but studies have shown that people are more productive, more loyal, and just all around better employees when they feel they are being treated well, respected and happy in their jobs.  So, it behooves the company to do better by its employees, because, in the end, it would be good for business too.

Which is pretty much what we've seen of Randall before this.  He had time to leave the office and attend all those school and family functions like career day, had a lovely corner office and parking, was respected and well-paid.  I suppose the Sanjay stuff and the anxiety were supposed to show his job's uncaring side, but what I got from it was more that Randall was the one who wasn't handling work well, not so much the company not handling Randall well.  And the pears kind of struck me the same way, and I know that wasn't the show's aim.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't view it as being so much about what a person would expect from the situation, as it being about what he wanted. Randall worked there for a while and previously he said he liked it. But he's changing, and he wants something different now. It's been becoming a problem for a while, and the pears/card was the moment that most embodied the impersonality of the situation, but I don't think it was that particular gift that made him want to leave. I think it was just symbolic of something much larger about the job, that he no longer wanted for himself.

I think this is spot on. It was just one of many things - the last straw, as it were.

53 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

I've worked in plenty of offices, and since I'm a consultant, I've also had the chance to see how tons of offices in a variety of industries handle funerals and birthdays. It differs widely.  I'm sure software developers don't think IBM and Google are the same when it comes to employee culture.

.......

I had a employee once who had a death in the family and I made sure to tell the secretary not to send flowers because I knew through a past conversation with them that their culture didn't have the custom of having flowers in a funeral.  But that was a small company where everyone knew everyone else, so, it might have just been easier for us to be aware of these things.

 

I've worked in many of the major Silicon Valley companies, and I agree, the corporate culture varies wildly. Heck, I worked as a consultant for Apple three different times - under different CEOs, and the changes each time were pretty interesting.

But I think the last paragraph is more to the point - Randall said the company started out with 6 employees, and now there were 60. Perspective varies, but it seems to me a big time firm (as they seem to be) with 60 employees is pretty small and intimate. You'd expect some degree of a personal touch - especially when you were in the first six.

As I recall, it was Beth that side-eyed the pears at first, and Randall shrugged it off. That reminded me so much of a company I worked for that held a big celebration after a long and strenuous project, and then only gave kudos (and cash bonuses) to the consultants from a firm recently in the news, and not to the employees who spent as much time on the project. Seriously, after a lovely dinner at the Monterey Aquarium, the consultants were called on stage, and the employees were ignored. Our spouses were furious - but we were pretty much "eh, what can you expect from <name>"

Edited March 12, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Empress1]

On 3/7/2017 at 9:27 PM, aw86 said:

Good Lord even the mailman thinks William is a saint.  I don't know that I can take the cheesiness of this show much longer 

My grandfather's mailman came to his funeral. My grandfather was a retired mailman so they used to talk shop for a few minutes a day when he brought the mail, and that led to talking about family and whatnot (the mailman knew about me and my brother), and gradually over the years they became friendly. I was so touched by that.

Kate's little "Hmph" look when Toby admitted to popping one of the balloons in the car made me laugh. The dream scene between Jack and William made me cry.

Quote

I noticed that the postcard was addressed to Beth in Alpine, NJ on Anderson Avenue. That is a real street and the homes on the end of that street and on the cross street are gorgeous. 

VERY affluent area - like, Chris Rock and Diddy live there kind of affluent. It's about 15 miles from midtown.

Quote

It was a thoughtless gift to somebody who should be important to the company. He has brought in 80% of the clients the company has and has worked closely with the boss for 10 years. Combine that with an employee who has had to go on stress leave partially brought on by working 20 hour days? The boss could have spent 5 seconds thinking about what to send instead of telling the secretary to send whatever. 

It's not just something Randall doesn't want to eat, it is something that could kill him. 

Randall didn't get mad when he got the gift. He defended the gift. But the gift helped him to realize that while he was pouring out his life for the company, the company and the boss didn't care about him one bit. They could barely spare him a thought beyond normal etiquette. He can devote his life to a company that will just treat him as another cog or he can slow down, get a job with more normal  hours and spend more time with his family/friends/people who will care about him. When he dies or is sick, those people will care. The company will just have somebody who doesn't even know him send a basket of something or other. 

Randall is lucky. He has marketable skills and the company needs him more than he needs it. He can find a new job. The company will likely struggle after their rainmaker leaves. 80% of the clients? The company should take better care of such an employee.

Totally agree. If Randall has brought in 80% of the clients and they decided to leave when he's no longer there, the company folds. (I'm hoping the boss's "What are you gonna do?" was out of fear, because Randall could shut that shit down if he wanted to. He could take his clients; if he grew one company, he can start and grow another.) Even if they don't care about him as a person (which they clearly don't), they should care about him as a rainmaker. I think everyone comes to a point at a job where they realize they're not going to get out what they're putting in, and Randall reached that point. Good for him, I say.

I think the actress who plays Beth is so beautiful, and I thought she was especially beautiful this ep. Her braid was gorgeous.

[talktoomuch]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

But I think the last paragraph is more to the point - Randall said the company started out with 6 employees, and now there were 60. Perspective varies, but it seems to me a big time firm (as they seem to be) with 60 employees is pretty small and intimate. You'd expect some degree of a personal touch - especially when you were in the first six.

Why would Randall expect a more personal touch though? Every single thing the show has shown us about this company, and Randall's boss specifically, is impersonal and ego-driven. And yet Randall still loved his job. Or so he said when prepping for Parent Talent Nite.

Which is why I think it would have been more show- and character-consistent to have Randall quit after realizing that it was no longer enough for him after knowing, loving and losing William, rather than being angry that his boss was insensitive. After all, this was the same man who threw money on the floor for employees to pick up at Christmas. Randall could not possibly have had a realistic expectation of sympathy or empathy from him.

[ShadowFacts]

8 minutes ago, talktoomuch said:

Why would Randall expect a more personal touch though? Every single thing the show has shown us about this company, and Randall's boss specifically, is impersonal and ego-driven. And yet Randall still loved his job. Or so he said when prepping for Parent Talent Nite.

Because a bit of special consideration isn't too much to expect, and he especially feels that now after William.  He may well have loved the work he did, the statistical and math parts, and merely put up with the rest because it is part of his nature to go all in.  He's a perfectionist, he has to get it right.  Now that he had found his birth father, and a few relatives who looked like him, and acceptance and true connection with William, he doesn't want to settle for the impersonal and ego-driven.  Not right now anyway.  Maybe he'll go back to it on different terms.  Right now he's rolling down the windows. 

[Clanstarling]

15 minutes ago, talktoomuch said:

Why would Randall expect a more personal touch though? Every single thing the show has shown us about this company, and Randall's boss specifically, is impersonal and ego-driven. And yet Randall still loved his job. Or so he said when prepping for Parent Talent Nite.

Which is why I think it would have been more show- and character-consistent to have Randall quit after realizing that it was no longer enough for him after knowing, loving and losing William, rather than being angry that his boss was insensitive. After all, this was the same man who threw money on the floor for employees to pick up at Christmas. Randall could not possibly have had a realistic expectation of sympathy or empathy from him.

I get your point. But I don't think Randall was angry that his boss was insensitive (I think Beth was, and worded my previous reply poorly), I think it was that he realized he wanted more than the impersonal job that he had, and that the pears were just another symbol of that lack of personal connection. Sometimes it's the smallest thing that makes you decide to break up (yes, comparing it to a divorce because in my case, anyway, the thing that finally made me say the words was incredibly minor and in a healthy relationship would have meant nothing.)

2 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Because a bit of special consideration isn't too much to expect, and he especially feels that now after William.  He may well have loved the work he did, the statistical and math parts, and merely put up with the rest because it is part of his nature to go all in.  He's a perfectionist, he has to get it right.  Now that he had found his birth father, and a few relatives who looked like him, and acceptance and true connection with William, he doesn't want to settle for the impersonal and ego-driven.  Not right now anyway.  Maybe he'll go back to it on different terms.  Right now he's rolling down the windows. 

Much better than what I said. :)

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Sure, calling Citibank or something, but balloons?  I assumed it was some small local store.  But I've never ordered balloons over the phone.

Actually having it be some local store makes it worse for me.  There's no reason for Kate to be on the phone long enough to lose her cool, only to be passed off to someone who hasn't even been told what the problem is. (Tammy didn't say "You need 50 rainbow balloons -- let me see how I can help", she said "How can I help you?".)

[OtterMommy]

10 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I was definitely feeling Kate when she mocked Tammy.  First, you have to make your way through 20 steps just to talk to a "representative" (often someone in Bangalore who you can barely understand).  If you're lucky, you'll get passed along to someone higher up and have to repeat Every Single Detail of your request.  2 hours later, you get Tammy (who is really Tamanatha), with her chirpy "Can I help you?"

Customer Service sucks, but I'm sure that even (former) CSR's have been on hold, listening to the same three ads over and over and over, and hoping you don't get the CSR who feels like their doing you the world's greatest favor just by talking to you.

I don't disagree with this, but I got the impression that Kate was not on the phone with a CSR in some CS maze in India, but rather with whoever answered the phone at the party store....which is a completely different scenario.

[chocolatine]

The thing that bothers me about the pears is the inconsistency. In the pilot Randall's coworkers/subordinates brought him a cake and sang happy birthday. I believe the cake was even personalized. But now, for a much more solemn occasion, they send a much less thoughtful gift, because the show wants to justify Randall quitting. Lazy writing, IMO.

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

The thing that bothers me about the pears is the inconsistency. In the pilot Randall's coworkers/subordinates brought him a cake and sang happy birthday. I believe the cake was even personalized. But now, for a much more solemn occasion, they send a much less thoughtful gift, because the show wants to justify Randall quitting. Lazy writing, IMO.

I don't think it was inconsistent at all.  Company policy is that on your birthday you get a cake with happy birthday written on it and everyone in the general vicinity will take 5 minutes out of their busy schedule to sing to you.  Company policy is fruit or flowers for a funeral.  Bummer it was pears.  But, really, what did he expect?  A signed card might have been nice, but really none of this stuff is required. 

[OtterMommy]

15 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

The thing that bothers me about the pears is the inconsistency. In the pilot Randall's coworkers/subordinates brought him a cake and sang happy birthday. I believe the cake was even personalized. But now, for a much more solemn occasion, they send a much less thoughtful gift, because the show wants to justify Randall quitting. Lazy writing, IMO.

I hadn't even thought of that, but it is a very good point (and makes me more upset about the pears....)

[chocolatine]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

I don't think it was inconsistent at all.  Company policy is that on your birthday you get a cake with happy birthday written on it and everyone in the general vicinity will take 5 minutes out of their busy schedule to sing to you.  Company policy is fruit or flowers for a funeral.  Bummer it was pears.  But, really, what did he expect?  A signed card might have been nice, but really none of this stuff is required. 

I'm not talking about policy. I'm saying if someone at that company - Randall's assistant? - was thoughtful enough to order a personalized cake, that someone would know about a life-threatening allergy and at the very least send a fruit basket that doesn't contain pears, and also make sure there's a personalized note.

[OtterMommy]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't think it was inconsistent at all.  Company policy is that on your birthday you get a cake with happy birthday written on it and everyone in the general vicinity will take 5 minutes out of their busy schedule to sing to you.  Company policy is fruit or flowers for a funeral.  Bummer it was pears.  But, really, what did he expect?  A signed card might have been nice, but really none of this stuff is required. 

I know every company is different, but I've never worked at a place where a family death was not taken seriously.  At the very least, a card was passed around for everyone to sign. More regularly, we (the employees) would pool money for a flower arrangement (as well as sending a personalized card).

At my husband's company, which I complained about upthread, it varies from group to group, employees who work closely with the bereaved always sign cards and they are given paid time off (not vacation or PTO) to attend the funerals.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I'm not talking about policy. I'm saying if someone at that company - Randall's assistant? - was thoughtful enough to order a personalized cake, that someone would know about a life-threatening allergy and at the very least send a fruit basket that doesn't contain pears, and also make sure there's a personalized note.

I once worked somewhere where I got a birthday cake every year.  I don't remember ever signing a card for a funeral, and I worked there for 7 years.  I'm sure somebody died.  Actually, I do know that a girl had a brain tumor. She collapsed at work and that's how they found it.  I don't remember a card going around for that either.  I suppose it may have and I forgot, or wasn't there that day or whatever.  But, just getting cakes on your birthday, does not mean that a company is going to do something extra special for you for a funeral beyond a card and flowers or fruit.

As for the brain tumor, they did send out an email saying that anyone who wanted to could donate sick time for her to use.  I did that.  Much more practical than a bunch of flowers that are going to die anyway.

[Cardie]

4 hours ago, Empress1 said:

He could take his clients; if he grew one company, he can start and grow another.

I do wonder if that is the case now. He froze at that client meeting and has emerged from being hospitalized for a breakdown (not his first). In his line of work, rumors of cognitive decline can be killers. It's ironic that poor Jack slaved away at a job he hated, probably until he died, but he has raised a trio of divas who up and quit if they think their dreams or their dignity demand it.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Actually having it be some local store makes it worse for me.  There's no reason for Kate to be on the phone long enough to lose her cool, only to be passed off to someone who hasn't even been told what the problem is. (Tammy didn't say "You need 50 rainbow balloons -- let me see how I can help", she said "How can I help you?".)

I think it was just poorly done.  Kate didn't give either person (again, they were Bryce and Sharon, not Tammy) a chance to say anything after she escalated to pissed off.  She explained snippily what she wanted and in the same breath asked to speak to a manager then snapped at the manager as if presuming the manager would be another idiot based only on, "This is Sharon, can I help you?"  

If she's convinced she'd connected to a store full of idiots, call another store.  Or get off her butt and go shop for the perfect balloons, if they're so vital.  It's not like these two have jobs.  

[Crs97]

After ten years, I would think the story in the office wouldn't be that everyone must remember Randall is allergic to pears.  The story would be that Randall had an attack eating salad and almost died at his interview.  I am trying to think of major things that happened ten years ago to friends.  Details fade.

My first job after law school was at a huge firm that had two main event planners running the firm functions.  One would call the vendors, explain the event, and ask how they could work together to make it a success.  She was beloved, both within and outside the firm.  The other would call the vendors, explain the event, and threaten them that if anything was the slightest bit wrong they would never do business with any of the city's law firms ever again.  So I recognize Kate. The attorneys didn't like her either.

I can also imagine the impersonal nature of the pears could be a result of the unusual circumstances.  Can't you picture something along the lines of this:

"Randall isn't here because his father just died."

"His father?  I thought his father died a long time ago."

"No, his biological father."

"Oh. I didn't know they had a relationship."

"As best as I can tell, they got in contact a few months ago.  Right around the time Randall started skipping some of the client meetings."

"Yeah, he really started dropping some major balls.  I had no idea about his dad.  Were they close?"

"I don't know.  He showed up at the office once and wanted Randall to go to lunch.  Randall seemed a little stressed and didn't seem like he wanted to go.  He told everyone he would be back soon, but he was gone the rest of the day."

"And the man is dead now?"

"Yes, sir.  Do we send anything?"

"How should I know?  They don't have a Hallmark card for this.  I guess send something.  Just to express sympathy."

[Empress1]

48 minutes ago, Cardie said:

I do wonder if that is the case now. He froze at that client meeting and has emerged from being hospitalized for a breakdown (not his first). In his line of work, rumors of cognitive decline can be killers.

True, and he probably no longer wants that life anyway. No one should work 20 hours a day, in my opinion. Hopefully he was prudent financially, otherwise they'd have to downsize a LOT.

[Crs97]

Maybe they can move with Miguel and Rebecca.

[WearyTraveler]

2 hours ago, Cardie said:

I do wonder if that is the case now. He froze at that client meeting and has emerged from being hospitalized for a breakdown (not his first). In his line of work, rumors of cognitive decline can be killers. It's ironic that poor Jack slaved away at a job he hated, probably until he died, but he has raised a trio of divas who up and quit if they think their dreams or their dignity demand it.

But don't you think that's because Jack raised them to follow their dreams and reach for the stars and all that jazz?  I mean, I get the feeling we are supposed to believe that Jack sacrificed his personal fulfillment so his children wouldn't have to do the same thing.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Cardie said:

I do wonder if that is the case now. He froze at that client meeting and has emerged from being hospitalized for a breakdown (not his first). In his line of work, rumors of cognitive decline can be killers. It's ironic that poor Jack slaved away at a job he hated, probably until he died, but he has raised a trio of divas who up and quit if they think their dreams or their dignity demand it.

I don't know. I think parents who have sacrificed their dreams for their kids generally want them to be able to achieve theirs, or what was the sacrifice for? I am in exactly Jack's position, and more than anything I want my kids to find work they love - hopefully work that puts a roof over their head, of course.

As for the trio, they've all seemed to manage to support themselves to a pretty decent degree. Both Kevin and Randal have been portrayed as having a lot of money. They haven't been as clear about Kate, but she doesn't seem to be lacking in money given her LA digs, the accessories she wears, and the money she clearly intended to spend on gastric surgery and/or a month's retreat.

I'd grant that Kevin is a diva (he is an attention grabbing actor, after all), I'm not sure about Kate, but I disagree when it comes to Randall. He's spent his entire life (not just his adult life) over achieving and keeping his nose to the grindstone. He had an epiphany, decided what he he didn't want, and took action. Sure,  he quit dramatically. But not diva behavior by my books. And being Randall, I'm sure he has backup plan upon backup plan regarding his finances.

If I recall correctly, Jack's primary sacrifice was that he gave up on launching his own company, not that he hated his job. Since he continues to work in the same type of business, it doesn't seem like he'd hate the job per se. Splitting hairs, and I may be completely off base. But that's been my take.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Sure,  he quit dramatically. But not diva behavior by my books.

The dramatic quit and the $100,000 car are both on the diva end for me, especially for a man with kids and knowledge about finance.  

[jhlipton]

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think it was just poorly done.  Kate didn't give either person (again, they were Bryce and Sharon, not Tammy) a chance to say anything after she escalated to pissed off.  She explained snippily what she wanted and in the same breath asked to speak to a manager then snapped at the manager as if presuming the manager would be another idiot based only on, "This is Sharon, can I help you?"  

If she's convinced she'd connected to a store full of idiots, call another store.  Or get off her butt and go shop for the perfect balloons, if they're so vital.  It's not like these two have jobs.  

OK, since that's how it went, I agree that Kate was wrong.

[SlackerInc]

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

The thing that bothers me about the pears is the inconsistency. In the pilot Randall's coworkers/subordinates brought him a cake and sang happy birthday. I believe the cake was even personalized. But now, for a much more solemn occasion, they send a much less thoughtful gift, because the show wants to justify Randall quitting. Lazy writing, IMO.

I would say anything that happened in the pilot is exempt from strict scrutiny WRT continuity.  It's the nature of the TV game that things often change after the pilot.  (Gilmore Girls is a great example: the diner looks different, Sean Gunn's character has a different name, etc.)

[Cardie]

9 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

But don't you think that's because Jack raised them to follow their dreams and reach for the stars and all that jazz?  I mean, I get the feeling we are supposed to believe that Jack sacrificed his personal fulfillment so his children wouldn't have to do the same thing.

I'm probably betraying my own biases toward practicality and making sure one has financial security. If I had been a dream follower, I would have tried to get a job in the entertainment industry, which I love following but am temperamentally unsuited for. I am lucky that a professor's life was perfect for me but I can't say it was my dream. I don't have kids but I would have encouraged them to play it safe too. Being raised by parents who lived through the Depression has that effect.

[possibilities]

In the episode where Beth thinks she's pregnant, Randall talks about his dream to retire soon and move to... I forget where. I couldn't tell if he was joking, but either way, I think he's been playing safe his whole life. And he has a lot of money. I am under the impression that he has options, not that he's risking poverty for himself and his family by deciding to change jobs.

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, Cardie said:

I'm probably betraying my own biases toward practicality and making sure one has financial security. If I had been a dream follower, I would have tried to get a job in the entertainment industry, which I love following but am temperamentally unsuited for. I am lucky that a professor's life was perfect for me but I can't say it was my dream. I don't have kids but I would have encouraged them to play it safe too. Being raised by parents who lived through the Depression has that effect.

Actually, Cardie, we have a lot in common. I was raised by parents who lived through the depression as well. (well, one of them lived through the horrible inflation/depression in Germany, the other here). I am myself biased toward practicality, and the entertainment industry was my dream. Like you, I realized I was unsuited for it.  I landed in a career I was suited for, but have never liked, which may be why my attitude is a little different despite our similarities. My husband is more like you, in that he is more a play it safe guy. At this stage in my life, I'd like to see my kids reach for the stars - with at least one foot planted firmly on the ground.

[Crs97]

I am risk adverse, the one who tells my teen interested in acting that regional theatre allows you to be an actor as well as hold a regular job so you can have two dreams fulfilled.  Randall's quitting with no plan?  Would freak me out.

[ChromaKelly]

I have thoughts on Randall quitting and their finances, plus questions about his job set up. Going to move this to the minutiae/details thread.

[NutMeg]

36 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I am risk adverse, the one who tells my teen interested in acting that regional theatre allows you to be an actor as well as hold a regular job so you can have two dreams fulfilled.  Randall's quitting with no plan?  Would freak me out.

Ah, but it's the role of parents to freak out about any risky step their kids make in a direction they see as unsafe. And then they're proud as punch when the kids succeed in whatever avenue they felt confident they could succeed at (when the parents were having sleepless nights).