S01.E05: Chapter Five: Heart Of Darkness

[Mabinogia]

10 hours ago, dwmckim said:

And if he starts wearing feather earrings as part of his musical stagewear...

Haha, now I have this image of Archie attempting to bring back Glam Rock.

 

2 hours ago, ketose said:

The coach basically said Archie wasn't the best player, but he showed leadership by retiring the jersey.

Which was utterly ridiculous. That scene was very poorly done. It's really not that noble to retire the jersey of a well liked murdered kid. It's something the coach should have done. Hey, maybe Archie should be the coach instead, if his glam rock career doesn't take off. lol

[Eneya]

On 2/25/2017 at 2:19 AM, jay741982 said:

Lol I was going off the cast list in last night's episode. It's very Possible that Riverdale may be like GOT and that's they only list the main characters that actually appear in the episode. But I swear In the previous 4 episodes Madchen Amick(Alice) was only listed as a guest star 

Somebody named their daughter girl? (Madchen is girl in Germanz though there is an umlaut above the letter a, two dots, indicating a difference in the pronounciation)

Okay then...

[Sakura12]

Well there are men called Guy. 

Which was utterly ridiculous. That scene was very poorly done. It's really not that noble to retire the jersey of a well liked murdered kid. It's something the coach should have done. Hey, maybe Archie should be the coach instead, if his glam rock career doesn't take off. lol

Hey, now you are probably giving away next season's plot line. Archie is so amazing at football he becomes the assistant coach while also getting a record deal. And still without having a personality. That guy is dour and talks so monotone I'm not sure how anyone sees any potential in him. 

I wish Archie would start wearing feathers and guy liner. At least Aria's fashion gave us something interesting to talk about with her character. 

[starri]

[jay741982]

46 minutes ago, starri said:

LOL I'm seriously LOL'ing at this right now. I NEED this to happen now. Betty and Veronica could rock those outfits in this cover 

Edited February 26, 2017 by jay741982

[Anna Yolei]

On 2/23/2017 at 7:40 PM, jay741982 said:

Daddy Cooper sure was looking like Jason's killer by the end of the episode. I was glad to see him interact with Betty without Alice around as I was hoping he was more than the pansy he looked to be in the previous episodes

Agreed. If he had this grudgewank against the Blossoms for existing and found his daughter was engaged....? Having Betty's mom be the killer would be just a bit too obvious since she's been running on all cylinders since her first scene, and who else would have a motive? 

Edited February 26, 2017 by Anna Yolei

[Chas411]

Archie and his tortured music shtick would be a lot more preferable on another show. It's unfortunate were stuck listening to it here.

enjoying the mystery stick... I hope we see Jugheads dad again..

i got vibes of romance between Veronica and Cheryl... Would they go there?

[jay741982]

35 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

Archie and his tortured music shtick would be a lot more preferable on another show. It's unfortunate were stuck listening to it here.

enjoying the mystery stick... I hope we see Jugheads dad again..

i got vibes of romance between Veronica and Cheryl... Would they go there?

I'd be down for a Veronica and Cheryl Romance they would be hot! As for will they go there it's Possible but I'm pretty sure they will make the triangle happen. More chemistry with others be dammed. Betty has better Chem with Veronica and Juggy. Veronica has better Chem with Betty and Cheryl JMO

[MarkHB]

20 hours ago, Eneya said:

Somebody named their daughter girl? (Madchen is girl in Germanz though there is an umlaut above the letter a, two dots, indicating a difference in the pronounciation)

Okay then...

Yes, they did.   She actually does spell it with the umlaut, in fact.

[AAEBoiler]

Quote

I am fully shipping Betty and Jughead.

Someone upstream suggested "Betthead" ... I also was thinking "Bughead" or "Jutty".

[jay741982]

7 hours ago, AAEBoiler said:

Someone upstream suggested "Betthead" ... I also was thinking "Bughead" or "Jutty".

That was me lol. The names I've heard are Bughead, Betthead and Jetty.

[dwmckim]

On 2/26/2017 at 8:33 AM, Eneya said:

Somebody named their daughter girl? (Madchen is girl in Germanz though there is an umlaut above the letter a, two dots, indicating a difference in the pronounciation)

On 2/26/2017 at 9:46 AM, Sakura12 said:

Well there are men called Guy. 

 

Since this show is based on Archie Comics, we need someone named Pal and someone named Gal.

Edited February 28, 2017 by dwmckim

[Sulis]

On 24/02/2017 at 4:07 AM, haje said:

The problem with Archie is that he's just far too normal at this point and the writers keep giving him storylines away from the rest of the core group of teens. Everyone else feels like a part of some gothic mystery while Archie is off in his own storylines and he just feels so disconnected from everyone. Veronica came into town just recently and somehow has felt more natural and part of the group dynamic that is Betty/Kevin/Jughead than Archie does even though he has known them for much longer. Hell, they keep emphasizing how Betty and Archie are bffs but have given us barely interaction with them where I truly buy that they've known each other all their lives. Betty and Jughead seem like far closer friends than Archie/Betty or Archie/Jughead at this point. 

Have to agree with this point, that several others also made. Archie needs to be more connected to the crazy storylines. I know less than nothing about American football but at least there's potential for drama there, unlike the snoozy music stuff.

On another note, Cheryl's makeup is so distracting! I can't stop staring at her overdone lipstick when she's on screen. Who wears that much to school? Or at all even?

[Misty79]

I'm also not keen on a Betty Jughead romance, and I don't see any chemistry (yet anyway). They're terrific as sleuthing buddies and loyal friends, I don't want the show to ruin that. Betty and Archie did feel more natural to me, even if they've dropped that recently. Of course Betty has had by far the best chemistry with Veronica but we know that isn't happening. 

Actually the actress playing Veronica seems to be one of those actors that has mad chemistry with everyone. I was shipping Cheryl and Veronica by the end of this episode, which makes little sense plot wise. 

[Bruinsfan]

On 2/24/2017 at 3:12 AM, imakicola said:

Ok. Reggie. Shirtless. HOT! Not as ripped as Archie or Chuck, but I love reggie's cockiness. Although Reggie doesn't seem very smart outside of telling Archie to sit it out.

It's been decades since I read any Archie comics except the recent twisted Sabrina series, but wasn't Reggie pretty much the smartest of the main teen characters? I remember his flaws being conceit and selfishness, but as Archie's foil he was actually quicker on the uptake than the main character. Moose seems more on the ball (no pun intended) than Reggie on this show.

On 2/26/2017 at 7:33 AM, ketose said:

I still get a Veronica Mars vibe from this show, but without the sexual assault every season (at least so far).

I'd say Miss Grundy repeatedly banging a kid between his freshman and sophomore years in high school would qualify. I mean, Archie was a willing participant, but he's way too young and immature to be in a relationship with an adult.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Bruinsfan

[dwmckim]

13 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

It's been decades since I read any Archie comics except the recent twisted Sabrina series, but wasn't Reggie pretty much the smartest of the main teen characters? I remember his flaws being conceit and selfishness, but as Archie's foil he was actually quicker on the uptake than the main character. Moose seems more on the ball (no pun intended) than Reggie on this show.

 

Reggie had a sharper wit and had a mind perfect for scheming and mischief - a sharper tack than the often more naive, childlike Archie.

 

But of the main characters, Smartest award (not counting supporting character Dilton) would go to Jughead.  He would be the one who beats the others in chess-like moves.  Gets the better of Reggie when he's on one of his pranking sprees.

 

Though really the one nice thing about the five main characters (in the books) and probably one of the main reasons they've stayed so evergreen over 75 years is that all five have their individual areas where they excel.  As mentioned, Jughead has a chess-like mind for winning when it comes to interpersonal relationships/psychology.  Reggie has more of the schemer's mind, recognizing angles and opportunities.  Betty would be the "school-smarts" girl - straight As in her classes, not necessarily because she has a higher IQ but she's the most disciplined when it comes to her studies, time management, priorities.  The other four could do just as well in their classes if they really cared to and put more focus on applying themselves.  Veronica is often a contrast to Betty, bu she's not a dumb bunny - she just applies her smarts to the areas that carry personal meaning to her (she might get Cs inother classes but she's the star student in economics and fashion).  Archie is more naive when it comes to scheming, sometime struggles in classes not because he's dumb, but he daydreams and gets distracted by girls and dates (once he studies with someone like Betty tutoring him, he does fine) but his mental strength is seeingthe overall picture and coming up with solutions to problems.

[Oscirus]

Archie perfect? Am I missing something. Archie's constantly shown fucking up and making bad decisions yet Betty's a cheerleader, a + student, currently running a newspaper with two people, almost single-handedly ended the male toxic locker room environment vibe of the school, knows how to pick locks and repair cars and has people currently begging to be her best friend.  Just saying.

That being said, they really need to pick a show. Either go with the cooper investigation show/twin peaks thing or go with the Archie teen drama show. These friggin tonal shifts are jarring and it's not doing any favors to the characters ( namely the main character stuck in a show that barely any of the other characters seem to be on). Hell, they couldn't even have these characters on the same page at the funeral in terms of how they chose to dress. Also,this show needs not to condemn Grundy for lusting after young boys when the show continually finds  way to sexualize one of the young boys she was lusting after, can't have it both ways.

On a weird note, Scary Movie ruined Betty's dad for me, I can't look at him and not think about micro penis.

Prick Reggie is awesome and he needs more time.

Veronica is bringing alot of energy to this show, even if she's not as front and center as I expected.

Blossoms are almost too cartoonish.  I get that this show is a train wreck and all, but pull it back a little.

If the Coopers turn out to be anything other then a red herring, I'm going to be very disappointed at the laziness of this show.

I might be more interested in the Fred Hermonia Hiram love triangle if you didn't show us who she picked the week before.

[Bruinsfan]

I feel a tiny glimmer of sympathy for Grundy because I'm disturbed by how hot I find KJ Apa, when usually 27 or so is the younger boundary for my being attracted to a guy. Though in my defense, he does look like he's a contemporary of Colton Haynes or Darren Criss rather than Abigail Breslin.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

On 2017-02-24 at 1:04 AM, Dee said:

The Blossoms are a VC Andrews novel on steroids.

Right? It's awesome!! Keep being like this please!!! 

[Anna Yolei]

On Mon Feb 27 2017 at 6:29 AM, AAEBoiler said:

Someone upstream suggested "Betthead" ... I also was thinking "Bughead" or "Jutty".

Or Buggy :)

[chlban]

I haven't watched CW since the Gilmore Girls, but a friend suggested this show so I figured I would give it a shot but wasn't expecting much. To my amazement, I am really enjoying the show. Sure, it is campy, over the top and mostly about teenagers, but I am mostly loving it. There is an actual main mystery with some minor mysteries thrown in for good measure. Yeah, Polly is likely preggers, but it is a bit unbelievable that a family hides that in this day and age, but whatever. I agree with others though that the whole Archie suffering for his music is the one real drag on the show. I just don't care. I haven't really shipped since "Moonlighting" ( yes, I am old, google it young uns) ended so badly, but I wouldn't really be shipping anyone other than Fred an Veronica's mom (maybe). Juggy and Betty remind me of me and one of my BFF'S, a neighbor I grew up with who was, and still is, my brother from another mother. Don't ruin it with romance. Besides isn't Juggie gay? Too much angst down that road. I hope they stick with the mystery much more than the soap opera. 

[dwmckim]

The show might always change it (case in point: Moose) but as far as the books go, Kevin's the only established regular character that's gay.  Jughead's considered asexual in the books and that's something Cole Sprouse, Jughead's portrayer, has encouraged the show to maintain.

To give a further history of the question of Jug's sexuality, the comic's been around for 75 years and has had a number of different writers, all of them probably had their own ideas on the character and these views probably changed as the decades progressed.  It was always established that he was a "woman-hater" (obviously before misogyny became more of a social concern).  For many MANY years, readers - and probably a fair number of the writers - interpreted this as the closest they could come to being able to say Jughead's gay during times when they wouldn't have been able to explicitly state this in a comic.  (I know for me, Jughead was a great role model as a gay kid growing up who didn't have much others)  But around 1988, in response to antigay backlash hysteria prominent at the time due to the rise of HIV/AIDS, the comics started trying to make it known that yes, Jughead was most assuredly NOT GAY by giving him love interests - establishing that he doesn't date because of a broken heart sustained when he was a little kid.  His childhood sweetheart returns, and he also has some other love interests thrown at him which were quickly dropped when they proved to be unpopular (and having accomplished their mission of establishing that "Jughead gay? No no, nothing to see here...")  Aside from Big Ethel who was been chasing him since the early 60s, the only other female pairing that has stayed around (and has yet to appear in the newer reboots) is Trula Twyst, a psychology expert who's obsessed with attracting Jughead's attention through all manner of psychological trickery and manipulation.

Then by 2010, where gayness was not only no longer a taboo, but having a gay character in Archie comics seemed way overdue, rather finally establishing Jughead as a gay character, the character of Kevin Keller was created.  Of course, Jughead was his first good friend upon his move to Riverdale  they bonded over their love and food and eating contests.  While this disappointed many people (including myself) that they couldn't finally open the closet door on what most likely many of the writers thought privately behind the scenes was a coded gay character, this was probably ultimately the best choice since Jughead himself had too much backstory and established traits that might not make him the best Positive Role Model for younger readers coming to terms with their own sexuality (plus all those decades of being known as a "woman-hater" could have sent the message "gay"="misogynistic")

It's still fun though to read older stories and imagine whether or not the author at the time felt in their own head was a gay character.  My favorites in this light are the stories centered around the U.G.A.J., a group of girls who feared that Jughead's attitudes might spread to other boys and who declared it their mission to try to lure Jughead into a female romance.  But Jughead always won out in the end.

[methodwriter85]

On 3/2/2017 at 4:02 AM, Bruinsfan said:

I feel a tiny glimmer of sympathy for Grundy because I'm disturbed by how hot I find KJ Apa, when usually 27 or so is the younger boundary for my being attracted to a guy. Though in my defense, he does look like he's a contemporary of Colton Haynes or Darren Criss rather than Abigail Breslin.

Just keep reminding yourself that his conception happened somewhere around the fall of 1996. If you were able to vote during that election season, just remember that. I just think it's funny he's not even really a contemporary with Jughead, who easily looks like the youngest male main character on the show even though he's not.

Cole Sprouse does look great, though. The dark hair looks great on him. And I'm usually not a fan of the twink type, but the kid has a really good brain on him which I've found to be the most attractive thing about anybody. I'm also within a decade of his age as opposed to my age relation to Apa so I feel less pervy. (I was 11 when Apa was born, 6 when the Sprouse twins were.)

Does anyone else think Archie's hair dye job got better as the season goes on? I think they tweaked it. In the promos it looked really terrible and fake, but when we get to Ma Blossom caressing Archie's hair, it looks pretty good in my opinion.

It honestly might just be easier to get him a wig, but then they insisted on dying his eyebrows, as well. If the show goes on, I hope this doesn't wreck his hair. He's got great hair. (So does Cole, but they've got to keep it under that beanie.)

Edited March 7, 2017 by methodwriter85

[peachmangosteen]

8 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

(I was 11 when Apa was born, 6 when the Sprouse twins were.)

This made me do the math for myself and I was 13 when KJ was born. So, that's not great lol!

[Bruinsfan]

I was... older than that by a fair amount.

[peachmangosteen]

I feel like we're all just too old for this show, but hey, just embrace it!

[Mabinogia]

I am closer in age to the parents than the kids on this show, and yet I LOVE it. Of course I still watch the Disney Channel so IDK what that says about me. I remember Cole from Zack and Cody which is what makes me feel awkward finding him so attractive now. Not in a Ms. Grundy way though. More in an if I were that age he would be my heartthrob way.

[methodwriter85]

On 3/7/2017 at 10:53 AM, Bruinsfan said:

I was... older than that by a fair amount.

High school?

[dippydee]

On 3/7/2017 at 9:19 AM, peachmangosteen said:

On 3/7/2017 at 1:03 AM, methodwriter85 said:

 

This made me do the math for myself and I was 13 when KJ was born. So, that's not great lol!

Me too! Though I don't think he's anything beyond sort of cute so at least I don't have to feel too bad about inappropriate thoughts ;)

Also on the KJ front I wonder if the reason his acting seems stilted to me is because he's concentrating so much on his accent the rest of his performance suffers as a result. The just not holding my attention the way some of the other characters do.

[thuganomics85]

Well, the Blossom family sure are a piece of work.  No wonder Cheryl has ended up the way she is and no wonder Jason wanted to get the hell out of there.  Glad that Cheryl did step up at the end and did a eulogy against her mother's wishes.  And it looks like she and Veronica are getting close, which is nice.

Archie wearing his letter jacket to the wake kept distracting me.  I guess it's something football players due if there at a wake for a teammate, but it really felt ou tof place, since everyone else seemed to be wearing suits.  Hell, even Jughead had one, although he still kept the beanie, because Jughead can't be Jughead without the beanie.

Interesting seeing more of Hal/Betty's dad with Alice away, but it's too bad it looks like he's just as controlling and shady as his wife.  Although, it is strangely fitting that the history behind the Blossoms and Coopers' feud is maple syrup.  Then again, I just saw an episode of Elementary where the murder of the week was due to maple syrup, so that clearly brings out the worst in everyone!

It really does feel like Archie's just stuck doing normal, boring kind of things, while everyone else gets to have fun with solving mysterious, dealing with crazy families, and so forth.  Hell, even his dad might have gotten himself involved in a battle between the wife of a Bernie Madoff rip-off and a biker gang who uses actual snakes as their calling cards.

While I've been enjoying seeing more of these characters, I do hope Veronica gets a character-centric episode soon, because the past few feel like she's been more supportive with either Betty or Cheryl, which is awesome, I want her to take lead again. 

[PeekaBoo]

51 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Well, the Blossom family sure are a piece of work.  No wonder Cheryl has ended up the way she is and no wonder Jason wanted to get the hell out of there.  Glad that Cheryl did step up at the end and did a eulogy against her mother's wishes.  And it looks like she and Veronica are getting close, which is nice.

Archie wearing his letter jacket to the wake kept distracting me.  I guess it's something football players due if there at a wake for a teammate, but it really felt ou tof place, since everyone else seemed to be wearing suits.  Hell, even Jughead had one, although he still kept the beanie, because Jughead can't be Jughead without the beanie.

Interesting seeing more of Hal/Betty's dad with Alice away, but it's too bad it looks like he's just as controlling and shady as his wife.  Although, it is strangely fitting that the history behind the Blossoms and Coopers' feud is maple syrup.  Then again, I just saw an episode of Elementary where the murder of the week was due to maple syrup, so that clearly brings out the worst in everyone!

It really does feel like Archie's just stuck doing normal, boring kind of things, while everyone else gets to have fun with solving mysterious, dealing with crazy families, and so forth.  Hell, even his dad might have gotten himself involved in a battle between the wife of a Bernie Madoff rip-off and a biker gang who uses actual snakes as their calling cards.

While I've been enjoying seeing more of these characters, I do hope Veronica gets a character-centric episode soon, because the past few feel like she's been more supportive with either Betty or Cheryl, which is awesome, I want her to take lead again. 

Since most of the forum is on hiatus, it's nice to read posts from ppl who are just now discovering the show. Makes nice reading... enjoy the rest of the episodes