S03.E13: It's War

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

A powerless Annalise vows to get revenge on Denver and Atwood. Meanwhile, Wes' unsolved murder continues to weigh heavily on the Keating 4 and Oliver; and Nate makes a surprising discovery.

[Keepitmoving]

Yeah, Connor didn't kill him, he was performing CPR to save him. But since everyone knew damn well that he hated Wes there was no way he was going to admit that he was ever in that house on the night of the murder. No way is Norwalk making his pretty faced Connor the murderer. He's on people's shit list, well not mine, so folks would LOVE for it to be him, I say it's not going to be him.

[Lady Calypso]

First off, next week is already the two hour season finale? Seriously? Damn, this half season flew by really quickly. 

So, Connor was there and somehow involved, but he was trying to revive Wes so he was never trying to kill him if it did happen. I don't think he killed Wes, but he was definitely there when Wes died, most likely before the fire. Unless Connor revived Wes and then Laurel came by after and killed him. Hey, that theory is still possible. Karla Souza is doing a phenomenal job, but I'm still not feeling right about Laurel's hysterics about Wes. As much as I want to believe in it, I just don't.

I liked the Annalise/Laurel scene at the end. It was very well done. So, the "Annalise is Wes' mother" theory popped up again in the episode, but Annalise herself shot it down. Maybe that'll shut that case closed for good. 

So, it takes Frank to bring up the fact that Atwood is too biased against Annalise. I mean, it's not like Annalise and her team haven't been saying this for ages. Ok, then. Whatever; at least it's over and done with. That being said, Atwood does have a point, even if she doesn't realize that it's everyone else around Annalise that have been performing the more serious crimes. Not that Annalise is innocent because covering them up is a crime in itself and Annalise is 100% guilty about that. 

Some great moments with Michaela as well. I like seeing her take charge of the situation and stand up to Annalise. I also liked Asher's conversation with Annalise. Now the only one who hasn't spoken one on one to Annalise is Connor, which I guess we'll see in the finale. 

[wanderingstar]

I liked that ending. It gave me the right amount of "HOLY SHIT" anticipation for next week's finale. My guess is Connor didn't kill Wes, but is just our latest red herring.

Loved all of Annalise's scenes with the K4, especially her scenes with Michaela and Laurel. Michaela continues to be awesome.

Connor as the anonymous source is too easy at this point, right?

"Stop trying to help me" could be Nate's motto for his entire relationship with Annalise.

Nice to see Atwood taken down a peg, though I'm not sure how long it'll last.

Frank lawyering was cool to see, even though DA Denver was right that Annalise was feeding him everything.

Next week had better not be a letdown.

[stonehaven]

I am officially on the Connor hate train. It took him all season to get interesting and they wait 'till the final two hours?

I love Asher...and I think Atwood is a real piece of crap to use AK's sponsor against her and to use that poor woman's kids as bait...that bitch has no soul.

The Annalise/Frank conversation on the phone will come back and bite them...

So Wes was cremated? Does this still give credence to the theory that Wes may be alive?

I am leaning toward Bonnie killing Wes with a strong possibility of it being Laurel....Just how many people were in that house that night?

[Tiger]

Laural, Oliver, Asher, and Bonnie, in that order, is still my list of suspects.

Fantastic episode.

[Chairperson Meow]

I wonder if the man Laurel saw was actually Connor or was it Frank?  

[Neurochick]

I think Atwood killed Wes.  Either it's her or Wes' former girlfriend, Meggie (I think that's her name).

Edited February 17, 2017 by Neurochick

[Keepitmoving]

Something more has to surely happen in that two hour finale, and it can't be oh yeah, Connor killed Wes, nope. Norwalk would have to be kidding me if that were all there were to this murder. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Blue Plastic]

Wow, that last little tidbit with Connor and Wes was interesting. Everything else kind of went in one ear and out the other, maybe partly because I'm sick right now and just can't concentrate too hard.  I was actually kind of bored.

Well, the sponsor helping Atwood was a bit interesting too. I wondered why she was hanging around Annalise all the time.  I thought she had a crush.

[HunterHunted]

You cannot leak an ARTICLE to the press. You can leak facts, evidence, or a story, but not a completed article to the press or media. A fully completed article that an office, agency, person, or corporation gives to the press is called a press release. Given the general level of incompetence displayed on this show, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the DA put together a press release about how they lost Wes' body.

What the fuck is the DA going to do in a custody case?  Except for putting in a statement about how helpful President Sponsor was in gathering evidence on Annalise, doesn't make President Sponsor a good parent, not a drunk, or someone who didn't violate the tenets of AA.

Connor has been paranoid and assigning blame when he was the one who was there. There is no reason to not share those details with the others after how many horrible things they've done together. The only reason to hide it is if Connor is the anonymous source.

Dear God in heaven is this show remedial.

[pennben]

.....rubs hands in glee, cackles quietly....I love these episodes when the season (half-season) starts coming together!  Next week should be fun! I wonder what twist they'll leave us hanging with until next season?

[Dee]

Connor needs to be pushed down a flight of stairs ASAP.

[Keepitmoving]

LOL, Bonnie is getting another plastic bag ready for Connor, boy, that was a serious death stare she gave him.

[Keepitmoving]

4 minutes ago, doram said:

 Connor performing CPR doesn't mean he didn't kill Wes. Perhaps they had a fight and he accidentally killed him. He panicked, tried to save him, realized he was gone and ran off. 

I've always maintained that the fire and murder are two unrelated crimes. I believe the Mahoneys are a red herring. 

Maybe that's why I hear Oliver in the promo whining to everyone that they've all done bad things. Maybe he's trying to save Connor with that line. Then I hear Michaela's voice telling someone that, that person can tell her anything. Yeah, "You can tell me anything." Sounded like she would be saying that to Connor, to get him to come clean.

[Keepitmoving]

5 minutes ago, doram said:

Speaking of motives, Wes' unborn child stands to inherit a great deal of Mahoney wealth. That's motive. Perhaps the endgame will be that Laurel masterminded their relationship and his murder to win, by proxy, an immense amount of money. 

Laurel doesn't need any money, she's already wealthy.

[Cigale]

Laurel's family are bad and dangerous people, we've been told from the beginning...  how about them for the murder...?

[Keepitmoving]

3 minutes ago, sisterspoon said:

Laurel's family are bad and dangerous people, we've been told from the beginning...  how about them for the murder...?

No, I think the actress had that backstory changed, the insinuation that her father was some kind of dangerous criminal that is....I think that backstory has been replaced with her resenting him or having a strained relationship with him because she blames him for putting her mother away in an institution because she 's mentally ill. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Keepitmoving]

I'm trying to figure out what Anna was doing with Michaela? Manipulating her for something, that much I know. Maybe it was to making sure that fire was still lit underneath her so she could keep monitoring the rest of the Keatings. Maybe that's why the next scene we see her checking up on Laurel, who Michaela is worried about in terms of her losing her shit and spilling all. Maybe that was Anna's intent with that little meeting.

[RubySoho]

I was wondering earlier today why Connor wasn't getting much, if any, side eye action. After tonight's episode I'm gonna wager that he got to AK's after Laurel "killed" Wes (air quotes because I'm leaning toward an accidental death during an argument between the two) and then set fire to the house as a cover up.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, doram said:

Hoping against hope that it's Connor if only to be rid of his insufferable face. 

So the Judge caves to the flippant White career criminal but repeatedly ignores the renowned Black attorney? 

Well, technically, the less-renowned white attorney, as Bonnie was representing AK.

In real life, judges tend to give people representing themselves, or pro se litigants, a lot more latitude than actual attorneys.

The notion that one could get the personal correspondence of an attorney is not likely to fly in real life. 

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

 

[truthaboutluv]

Well we all knew we'd eventually get to the speculation of Connor possibly killing Wes. As I said last season, his and Wes' timelines were the ones that turned out to be off when we were first trying to figure out who was under the sheet. The mid-season finale clearly showed that Connor left Thomas' before he had any knowledge of the fire or any of that stuff. 

Of course the fact that they've telegraphed it so clearly makes it obvious to me it's not him (or that's what they want us to think *insert evil side-eye*). But in all seriousness, I've never believed Connor was guilty because again, since last season he seemed like such an obvious suspect. Connor cracked me up when Annalise was first talking to them all and said she would have understood if they'd all fled to Brazil by now and he responded, "wait, is that an option?" Like he was seriously wondering if he had missed that option when they were plotting their escape plan last episode. 

My money is still on Laurel. The overly emotional grieving girlfriend who wants vengeance makes her the least likely suspect and just for that, she's my main suspect. I said last week, when she said that she saw someone run out the door in the basement that that was probably true but she just lied about knowing for a fact it was Frank. You know it's like they always say the best lies are the ones with some truth in them. So my guess is she did see someone and it was probably Connor who freaked when he heard someone coming, clearly thinking Wes was dead and not wanting to be found over his body. Now granted that makes it sound like Laurel herself got there and found Wes already dead and then the house blew up. But I don't know, my gut still says something is off with her story. 

The other option of course is that Wes is still alive. I know the showrunners have emphatically denied this but let's face it, it wouldn't be the first time a show runner has lied to the viewers. The losing the body scenario was already suspect to me but now we have the sudden cremation as well? And of course we still don't know who Wes was calling that he identified himself as Christophe to and was apparently only for emergency purposes. If he did somehow fake his death, I think Connor may end up hating him even more than he already does and in likely Connor fashion, tell him he should have stayed dead. By the way, I continue to remain on my unpopular train of liking Connor.

Yeah he's bitter and resents Annalise and kind of hated Wes, so what in my opinion. And I say that as someone who likes Annalise and liked Wes just fine. But as I've said, ultimately none of the characters on this show are actually good people. They all just manifest their awful in different ways. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Primetimer]

And naturally, Viola Davis sheds it perfectly.

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[Joimiaroxeu]

I'm starting to feel like they're just making this show up as they go along. So much hand-wavery. Among other things, I think Wes' corpse now (allegedly) being cremated seems awfully convenient. If Wes turns out to be still alive (and not in witness protection) that's going to seem jump-the-shark-ish to me.

What's with Bonnie suggesting an abortion to Laurel out of the blue? That doesn't seem like an idea that would've come from AK.

I'm glad it's now been officially recognized that Atwood is shady if not straight up criminal. Too bad she didn't exercise better control of her jealousy of Annalise.

I don't think Connor killed Wes but it looks like he's the next person to get scapegoated for it. I don't think any of the main characters did it. Meggy or the Mahoneys get my bets today.

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"Stop trying to help me" could be Nate's motto for his entire relationship with Annalise.

No kidding. I never understood why he got back with her after she almost got him convicted of murder. If he goes back with her again there's probably no hope for him. Even less hope if he takes up with Atwood again.

[NodakFan]

I'm completely against the idea that Wes is still alive - I just don't buy it, there's too many loose threads. (but when has that stopped this show)

But after reading this thread / thinking  more on the episode (and previous ones)....could part of the deal Wes made with the cops include Witness protection?  Thus the body was fake or was Wes pretending to be dead, Nate would be in on it as a cop, and the last scenes of the season would be Wes riding off into the sunset with a third name?  That would explain the body going missing and then suddenly cremated out of nowhere

[SunnyBeBe]

Didn't Laurel sign over some kind of Waiver for her dad back when she was trying to get his help with Frank? It seemed she forfeited her inheritance or something. Or did they go back and fix that?

[NodakFan]

15 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Didn't Laurel sign over some kind of Waiver for her dad back when she was trying to get his help with Frank? It seemed she forfeited her inheritance or something. Or did they go back and fix that?

I thought it was the opposite - she agreed to be part of the company or something.  Her dad was upset with her for cutting them out / removing herself from the family and whatever she signed changed that.

[secnarf]

17 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Didn't Laurel sign over some kind of Waiver for her dad back when she was trying to get his help with Frank? It seemed she forfeited her inheritance or something. Or did they go back and fix that?

She put her name on some property or something (I don't remember the details). She didn't sign away her inheritance. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah. That's right. I checked. I misunderstood when I saw it.  She actually let her dad put a new business in her name.  Boy, that's likely to backfire.  But, whatever. I don't care for Laurel.  Rich people's problems. 

[FormerMod-a1]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

By the way, I continue to remain on my unpopular train of liking Connor.

Yeah he's bitter and resents Annalise and kind of hated Wes, so what in my opinion. And I say that as someone who likes Annalise and liked Wes just fine. But as I've said, ultimately none of the characters on this show are actually good people. They all just manifest their awful in different ways. 

I like Connor, too.  I actually like them all.  Well, like them in terms of watching them on TV, not that I'd like them in real life.  :)

[helenamonster]

Okay, so my new theory that will most definitely be smashed to pieces next week is still that Laurel accidentally killed Wes in an argument (pushing him down the basement stairs). But before she can do anything to help him, she hears someone (Connor) coming into the house so she freaks and hides. Connor finds Wes, tries to revive him, and then notices the fire starting and runs. He's the man that Laurel saw running out of the storm door. I also still think there's a possibility that Laurel doesn't remember any of this, except for a man running out the storm door.

I'm usually way off in my speculation but I KNEW Hargrove was part of the Annalise set up.

As annoying as she is/was (I'm not entirely convinced we've seen the last of her), Atwood did have a point about people dropping like flies around Annalise. We know she's off in thinking Annalise killed all these people, but I can understand someone on the outside really getting suspicious. However, if we are going to have a character go after Annalise, I'd rather they do it with the facts. There's enough to put the whole main cast away for a very long time.

I loved all of the individual scenes Annalise had with the kiddos. They were all very true to the relationships she has with each of them. I especially liked how she recognized that Michaela was the one "they all listen to" and had taken charge while Annalise (and Bonnie and Frank) were otherwise occupied.

Bonnie and Laurel scene <3 Laurel is the natural successor to the Bonnie mold, so I love to see them interact. Their conversation about abortion was also a great contrast to Connor's comments from a few weeks ago. Bonnie was offering to help Laurel if it was an option she chose to pursue, although there was definitely the assumption that she would pursue it. I'm hoping they spend a little time next week with Laurel actually thinking about the decision she has to make with this. She's so focused on her immediate grief for Wes, which is fine, but, uh, tick tock, girl.

I just have to assume that this pregnancy is not going to go to term. What the hell is this show supposed to do with a baby when there's so much murdering and coverup to be done? After her conversation with Annalise, however, I think we're headed for the miscarriage route. Between that and their close ties with Wes, it'll secure their bond. Whether we ever end up seeing the baby or not, I won't be surprised if Laurel becomes Annalise's new favorite, as a sort of Wes replacement. I'm also wondering if maybe Laurel will have the baby and Annalise will adopt it? Idk, I should probably take all this to the speculation thread, especially because unless Laurel has an abortion/miscarriage next week, these questions are going to carry over into next season.

I wonder if the writers felt they had to have Annalise definitively say that Wes was not her son. I mean, they hung a pretty obvious lampshade on this speculation way back in only the second episode of the series, but I think we can safely put that theory to rest.

I also hope next week shows Wes being super super dead. Because I think keeping him alive and putting him in WITSEC would be a really cheap move. I'm really not even convinced of any speculation he's still alive. Sure, the disappearing body and sudden cremation are sus, but seeing Connor try to give him CPR this week was enough to convince me he's gone for good. Not that I have any personal experience with the matter, but I'd imagine it would be really hard for a person to fake death when someone is giving them CPR, unless they're going to make up some sort of concoction you can take that stops your pulse and imitates death a la Romeo and Juliet. But even though this show can be outlandish in its portrayal of the legal system, that's really pushing it.

I keep forgetting to mention this, and they weren't really shown this episode, but I have this weird affection for the detectives in charge of Wes's case. There's something very "heroes of a different" story about them that I enjoy.

11 hours ago, pennben said:

.....rubs hands in glee, cackles quietly....I love these episodes when the season (half-season) starts coming together!  Next week should be fun! I wonder what twist they'll leave us hanging with until next season?

Aw man, same. And this show usually delivers in its finales.

[Keepitmoving]

Asher is back to his old ways where Michaela is concerned and her feelings. She has the damn right to feel however she pleases. So no Asher, Michaela does not have to see Anna the way you do, no she doesn't and you trying to force her to see/say things your way pisses me off. Norwalk, cut it out. Asher as the compassionate one is making me roll my eyes, he's thankful because she kept his ass out of jail  and overly sensitive. Stop having him project that shit onto to Mickey. By the way, unlike Michaela, I love that he called her Mickey. She's like Anna Mae with her nick name Mickey, she doesn't want to hear it because she doesn't want to hear it because she doesn't want to be reminded of where she comes from.

Although I was with him on trying to question what the hell was up with Connor. Although, I get Michaela not wanting to believe it, totally get it. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Tiger]

I think @helenamonster is going to he right re Wes' death.  However, I think Connor knows Laural killed Wes and decided to pin it all on Annalise that he, Mickey, etc could all finally escape her vortex.  

Actually, that was a plot twist of a book I read years ago and can't remember the title of.  

On a related note, Annalise and others continue to have a large chunk of time unaccounted for.  And why was Annalise calling everyone over to the house in the first place?

[truthaboutluv]

Good question about Annalise. That's another question mark that hasn't been answered and I don't know if the writers have forgotten about it or waiting to reveal it. Because I find it odd none of the students have yet asked her why she wanted them to come over over in the first place. I mean if any of them think she is guilty, wouldn't that sort of suggest they thought she was trying to blow them all up? And that's why as whiny as Connor may be to some, I do understand his distrust of Annalise no matter how upset she seems because how many times has Annalise turned out to have an ace up her sleeves that they didn't know about? 

Edited February 17, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Because I find it odd none of the students have yet asked her why she wanted them to cover over in the first place.

Yeah it is, especially Michaela. Unless Peter Norwalk is forgetting that he actually wrote her questioning that phone call in a suspicious manner when she found Asher at the dorm that night and he told her that Anna had called them all. Apparently, she didn't get a call, and I find that interesting. Why didn't she get a call?  She was completely taken aback by that info. totally baffled as to why Anna would call and clearly why she didn't get a call. Why would I think that Anna would know, or care that Mickey's mother was visiting and well, I won't call her because she has to babysit her mother? So why didn't she get a call? Asher knew about the call because Laurel told him before she left. And I'm going to assume that Connor got the message to meet at the house as he checked his messages. I'm going with that, and not him just sauntering over the the Keating residence uninvited. So, ugh, I'm getting to where I can't with this show, because I can't take the lose ends.  Like I can't take a thousand fucking red herrings in characters like Simon and Meggie, to find out they were just around all season taking up space, especially Meggie. That's at least three damn scenes that could have gone to Michaela's backstory and given me more Brett Butler. I bet you that's the only reason they were there and that was a waste of my time, especially Meggie, if she was just a loving,  innocent girlfriend after all. Seriously? What was her use exactly ?  I really don't get it. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Neurochick]

2 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

I bet you that's the only reason they were there and that was a waste of my time, especially Meggie, if she was just a loving,  innocent girlfriend after all. Seriously? What was her use exactly ?  I really don't get it. 

I'll say it again, I think Meggie killed Wes.

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, Keepitmoving said:

And I'm going to assume that Connor got the message to meet at the house as he checked his messages.

He did. Oliver mentioned seeing Annalise placing a call to Connor's phone when he was checking the information he'd wiped from Annalise's phone.

[Keepitmoving]

1 minute ago, Neurochick said:

I'll say it again, I think Meggie killed Wes.

From your lips to my television screen next Thursday. It better be her and let's hope she's Atwood's daughter, because the loose end that is Atwood, annoys shit out of me as well.

Sorry, she was fucking nuts, as was Sinclair, but Atwood was much worse. How on earth can Norwalk just sum up her behavior as an aggressive DA just doing her job? I don't think so.

[Neurochick]

8 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Sorry, she was fucking nuts, as was Sinclair, but Atwood was much worse. How on earth can Norwalk just sum up her behavior as an aggressive DA just doing her job? I don't think so.

I've always gotten this "Single White Female" vibe with Atwood, meaning she wants to be Annalise but it's just not working.

[Keepitmoving]

4 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I've always gotten this "Single White Female" vibe with Atwood, meaning she wants to be Annalise but it's just not working.

I guess that might be enough, but should that not have ended with her body being thrown from a roof top or something?

LOL, something....

She should be going to jail right? Didn't she just admit to having the body cremated? Didn't she commit a crime?  Can we please see her in the cell with "Beyonce'"by the end of the finale?

Edited February 17, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Neurochick]

2 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

I guess that might be enough, but should that not have ended with her body being thrown from a roof top or something?

LOL, something....

The season isn't over yet.

[Keepitmoving]

I wish ABC could cut down on those commercials, ugh, they eat up time. I feel like I'm pretty much getting thirty minutes of a show. So next week, I guess I'll get an hour, because all the commercials will eat up at least one hour of that two hour finale.

[stuckin60s]

I agree with several above, Meggie and Atwood have some connection and Atwood did it. 

that would completely clear AK and the kids, they could get back to school and the law.

knowing the Deans part in this would give  AK some power.  This story line needs to end and move on

even though I look forward to it each week.

Did Nate go to the autopsy?  I think Wes is dead, too many saw his body.

And remember AK has not killed anyone, where the others have.  They are being very judgmental

Edited February 17, 2017 by stuckin60s

[rubyred]

Now that we've seen Connor attempt CPR on Wes, I think it's pretty clear he wasn't the killer...or manslaughter-er. I've realized something since Wes' death, which kind of makes him more cool in my eyes - he didn't give a shit what Connor thought of him. It always seemed to bug me more than it bugged Wes that Connor continued to call him "Waitlist". He never reacted to it, even just as an eye-roll, and the flashback scene made me realize that he simply didn't care about Connor's opinion of him. Which is why, I think, Connor couldn't resist needling him, since he seemed immune to the charm/sex appeal that Connor takes for granted as his place in the cosmos. Not that I think Connor was attracted to Wes sexually or anything like that - just that Wes made no attempt to buddy up to the "cool kid" and that got under Connor's skin. 

For all his self-assurance there's always been a layer of bravado and thin-skinnedness in Connor. And his reactions to his own feelings of insecurity have often been self-destructive, usually by deliberately pushing people away with his actions or words, whether it's hooking up to hurt Oliver or telling Michaela to abort in her hospital bed. Whatever happened that night with Wes, Connor feels guilt. He also feels cornered, so he's looking to get someone else on the hook.

Also while I could see Michaela's point (although I'm getting a little tired of her rapid-speech putdowns), I did not like seeing her shut Asher down to the point of demanding he not say anything she didn't want to hear. I was disappointed that Asher acquiesced to that.

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Did Nate go to the autopsy?  I think Wes is dead, too many saw his body.

He needs to be dead, I want that entire special puppy connection he has to Anna gone from my screen from week to week, I did not take kindly to it. It was interesting to find out the backstory on their connection but then...no, just no, every damn week, ugh.  And I suspect that's what Bonnie wants too, which is why she had the audacity to pose it as concern, when she went over to Laurel's and suggested that IF she wanted to have an abortion she would set it up. Yeah, that was totally self-serving in no way was she trying to bond with Laurel. Bonnie's not here for any of those little Keatings. Yeah she was in to  Asher but she'd put a plastic bag over his damn head in a minute to save Anna, if he posed a serious threat, in a hot ass minute. That's one unhealthy at times creepy relationship she's got going on with Anna. She doesn't want anyone taking her close place right by Anna's side except Frank, as Frank has his place at Anna's other side.  LOL, I swear if Connor could have died right there from her stare, he'd be gone.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Also while I could see Michaela's point (although I'm getting a little tired of her rapid-speech putdowns), I did not like seeing her shut Asher down to the point of demanding he not say anything she didn't want to hear. I was disappointed that Asher acquiesced to that.

 

I had no issue with the Michaela, Asher scene, but I see things from her point of view affording her much more empathy. Michaela is scared and trying to save what she sees as her family. She's the one that started in on the whole family convo., she brought that up, so you know that's where her head is, saving her family. But Asher is right it's the secrets that are kept that ruin families.  That look on her face of near tears before she stood up and looked at Connor and sided with Asher that he was acting foul, said it all. Not to mention her saying that she was about to leave if they started fighting again. That to her is her family and in her initial scene with Asher where she tries to shut his theory down, it comes from a place of fear. Where others see things as her trying to control Asher because she's "mean controlling" Michaela, I see a scared young lady.  She cannot entertain the thought that Connor could have murdered Wes, and worse for her is that he has been keeping secrets from her. The two of them bonded mainly because they felt shut out and therefore, confided in one another, but now he's going off and keeping secrets and following through on decisions without her.  Because while others hate Connor, she loves him, and has depended on him to be the one person who is honest with her, he's family. I get it and am totally in tune with her feelings, I feel for the girl, she's stuck in the middle and still looking for a family. Then Connor makes it worse of course because his back is up against the wall and makes some snide remark about know that she would of course defend her stupid boyfriend. I don't know what the hell that was suppose to mean but it came off condescending IMO. Why wouldn't she defend her boyfriend? Especially when the evidence is showing that he may have a point.

Michaela will continue to have a smart mouth and I love it, unlike Connor's mouth her delivery is much more on point and not offensive IMO. It's simply how she feels and she has no smiles, nor fucks to give in many of these situations and I don't blame her. I loved her calling Annalise by her first name as Anna was not trying to pay Michaela any compliment. She tried to act like she was and I found it insulting at this point. Just say what you want because you're not trying to compliment me, or you're trying to use the fact that you know I look up to you to manipulate me into doing something. That's how the scene came off to me and Michaela is like all that is not necessary because it's insulting to my intelligence and I agree. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[jvr]

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Asher is back to his old ways where Michaela is concerned and her feelings. She has the damn right to feel however she pleases. So no Asher, Michaela does not have to see Anna the way you do, no she doesn't and you trying to force her to see/say things your way pisses me off. Norwalk, cut it out.

I just think it's interesting you bash (maybe a strong word) Asher for his behavior regarding Michaela and Annalise in the same episode she called him stupid and a fool and told him what he could and could not say or feel about Connor. I think there is difference between seeing stuff from a characters perspective and excusing their behavior while condemning someone else's. None of this is one-sided imo. I do like how the relationship is going so far though, who knew I would feel that way based on how I felt when their hookup was revealed.

Solid episode for me (outside of the stupid law crap).

The Connor reveal at the end was excellent and makes so much sense regarding his behavior this whole time, he is scared. I agree with everyone that he isn't the killer but stumbled upon Wes and that he most likely is the anonymous tipster that got Annalise arrested. I imagine he was performing CPR, heard someone come in the house and hi-tailed it out of there, knowing it wouldn't look good for him to be seen there knowing his history with Wes. He should have told the group ASAP though, the shit they have been through should mean no secrets, it makes him look really bad.

I'm sticking with Laurel as the manslaughter-er. lol

eta: I think I'm gonna go with DA lady as firestarter, this chick is crazy. Probably wrong, but I gotta make a guess for that culprit. And it might explain stealing the body and disposing of it, she doesn't want it to be revealed the fire killed him and he wasn't murdered before (since she started the fire).

Edited February 17, 2017 by jvr

[Keepitmoving]

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 just think it's interesting you bash (maybe a strong word) Asher for his behavior regarding Michaela and Annalise in the same episode she called him stupid and a fool and told him what he could and could not say or feel about Connor. I think there is difference between seeing stuff from a characters perspective and excusing their behavior while condemning someone else's. None of this is one-sided imo. I do like how the relationship is going so far though, who knew I would feel that way based on how I felt when their hookup was revealed.

Yeah, but that's how the scene started, with him, NOT Michaela dictating how one should feel and what one should say with regard to Anna. It wasn't Michaela who started that, he was there talking about how Anna said not to worry about her, Michaela said yeah, she agrees worry about ...... Then he once again gets upset that she isn't reacting the way he would like in terms of her feelings toward Anna and proceeds to take her drink away as if she were a child to get her to act and say what he wants her to. So yeah, I do have an issue more with what he did than she did, in that convo...She does not have a pattern of policing Asher's feelings as in telling him that he needs to act this way and that, or feel this way toward an emotional situation, oh no, that's his MO.  I find that her reaction in that scene wasn't telling him what to think/feel but telling him that she didn't want to have that conversation, she didn't want to talk about it and that IMO is different from judging someone on their personal feelings which is what he was doing. 

And my annoyance is more with Norwalk, and this pattern of having other characters comment on a female character who supposedly isn't shedding enough tears and warmth, therefore we need commentary from some other so called compassionate character to tell them how to feel and act warmer. That may not be his intent but it's what I get from it and it annoys me.  He can just go ahead and break them up because I'm not interested in another female character that I like being told they aren't feeling this enough or that, it's bullshit IMO. Give me a scene where there is a serious conversation about why someone reacts the way they do and not just the surface criticism of their reaction as good, bad or in between. It's not Michaela who questioned how Asher grieved for Wes until he nearly killed Connor with that ass whipping. She didn't bring up his crying every five minutes UNTIL he just had to judge her because she wasn't crying enough. Well, enough Norwalk, enough of that. Nope, this judging of one's feelings in emotional situations as appropriate or not is all Asher and Michaela just ends up having not unfortunately, respond, defend herself, and she doesn't even do that half the time. You want to talk about lack of compassion...that would be Laurel looking Anna in her face and telling her that Wes deserved better than her in response to Anna telling them how her baby died. Yet, I gotta get in the script Michaela's boyfriend trying to get her to say out loud that Anna deserves sympathy. Nope that lesson should have gone to Laurel this episode. 

He didn't pull that with Bonnie and that lady hardly ever cracks a damn smile talk about lack of emotion. She's deep and dark and rightly so, but I didn't see him question her emotion or lack thereof. Although I may have missed some of their heart to hearts, not sure. I know I didn't miss the times she would roll her eyes when Asher acted a fool, but Michaela's emotions have to be checked, really?  Maybe it just shows that he feels like he's on the same level as Michaela which is a good thing, because at least you get a back and forth, push and pull angst that you wouldn't get with mama Bonnie.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, jvr said:

I just think it's interesting you bash (maybe a strong word) Asher for his behavior regarding Michaela and Annalise in the same episode she called him stupid and a fool and told him what he could and could not say or feel about Connor. I think there is difference between seeing stuff from a characters perspective and excusing their behavior while condemning someone else's. None of this is one-sided imo. I do like how the relationship is going so far though, who knew I would feel that way based on how I felt when their hookup was revealed.

Solid episode for me (outside of the stupid law crap).

The Connor reveal at the end was excellent and makes so much sense regarding his behavior this whole time, he is scared. I agree with everyone that he isn't the killer but stumbled upon Wes and that he most likely is the anonymous tipster that got Annalise arrested. I imagine he was performing CPR, heard someone come in the house and hi-tailed it out of there, knowing it wouldn't look good for him to be seen there knowing his history with Wes. He should have told the group ASAP though, the shit they have been through should mean no secrets, it makes him look really bad.

I'm sticking with Laurel as the manslaughter-er. lol

eta: I think I'm gonna go with DA lady as firestarter, this chick is crazy. Probably wrong, but I gotta make a guess for that culprit. And it might explain stealing the body and disposing of it, she doesn't want it to be revealed the fire killed him and he wasn't murdered before (since she started the fire).

I think Annalise started the fire and was the anonymous source.  I think she planned to create a double jeopardy situation and also destroy all traces of evidence in order to clean the slate.

Perphaps we'll find out she called everyone to the house to tell them her plan.

And I think having Atwood or Meggy or even Simon be the killer and/or the arsonist is way tooo CBS for this show.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Tiger

[Keepitmoving]

4 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I think Annalise started the fire and was the anonymous source.  I think she planned to create a double jeopardy situation and also destroy all traces of evidence in order to clean the slate.

And I think having Atwood or Meggy or even Simon be the killer and/or the arsonisy is way tooo CBS for this show.

But why would she do that knowing that she summoned the Keatings over to her house? Unless she checked inside the house before starting the fire. But clearly she didn't check well enough.  

In the flash forward it did look like Connor and Wes were on the floor of the basement. Which leads me to still question why it seemed like Laurel knew that Wes was in that house when she wrote his name on that paper in the hospital.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Keepitmoving