S04.E04: The Bachelor Party

[Sew Sumi]

Great post, @Jeeves. It's for the reasons you outlined that I fear that Derick may treat Jilly Muffin like a child a lot of the time. Because in reality, she's not much more mature than one, even though she's had one baby with another on the way. 

If she hasn't yet given up, she's definitely given IN to him. I think she's a total lost cause. At least Jessa holds her ground (and rules that roost), which is the exception in their world, not the rule. Jessa learned from the master, her own mother, who similarly holds Boob's balls in a contraption up those voluminous skirts she favors. 

I think Jinger and Joy are going to fall more on the side of Jill. In these past few episodes, Jinger has definitely shown that she's a weak reed, and Joy? The more she speaks, the more I cringe. The girl is just not smart in any way, shape, or form. 

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

She's a mess, and I think he's a mess. They've been through a lot in their few years of marriage, and I wish they could/would get some counseling from one or more actual, educated, trained counselors. (There are some of those in the Baptist/evangelical world, even if the fundie contingent scorns/ignores them.) And I can't forget that IMO, when Derick proposed he had very wrong ideas of who Jill really was*, which is hard enough on a marriage even without all the stuff they've gone through including his surgery, Joshgate, a near-disastrous childbirth, his continued health issues, and whatever happened in Central America which I believe was way worse than a broken shower rack but they (probably wisely) aren't disclosing. 

I don't like him much, and I've cringed at his SM posts which seem to show harsh and unrealistic expectations of how a toddler Iz's age should behave. I'd hate to think he was intentionally cruel to Jill, but you never know what goes on behind closed doors.

*I strongly believe that when he proposed to Jill, Derick assumed she had the educational background and social skills of the young women he'd grown up with in his Southern Baptist church, and attended [public] school and college with. He found out too late that she was a sheltered, isolated, barely literate, young woman who was emotionally immature, clingy, fragile, and astoundingly ignorant of almost all the things her contemporaries knew about. I wonder if the Duggar parents (and maybe some of the older kids) watched the result of the Tibet-to-Arkansas Skyped courtship, and learned from it. Because I suspect that behind the "made for TV" official short "courtship" timelines, Jinger and Jeremy were somehow allowed some time to get to know each other, and Joy and Austin have also had that. No, they didn't "date" in the usual sense, but they were/are in the same country - and the same place - a lot more than Jill and Derick were.

I agree and I also think Jill is just as shocked as Derick is about how immature she is. Being in the bubble of the Duggar family has given all of the Duggar 19 a false impression of who they are. Even Jessa - she only barks when surrounded by family - which she almost always is. 

Watching the Duggars is like watching 4 & 5 year olds learning soccer; both teams move in a bunch around wherever the ball is. However by the time the first game is played the kids maneuver the field in their own positions. The difference with the Duggars is they remain in a bunch until marriage with no coaching or preparation for independently maneuvering anything and are ill equipped to manage their own positions. 

[sATL]

what happened to the sister(s) between Josie and Joy at the Jewelry making party ?

Pistol Pete's face is a little scary for a toddler..I had to catch my breath the first time I saw the "mascot" appear, that close. That costume is better to look at from up in the football stands.

Good to hear Ms. Cathy is doing better. She looks great. Best part of the episode - someone who was able to overcome a cancer illness.

Shall we take bets on Izzy being allowed to go to OSU (or any other accredited 4 yr college)? I hope Derricks/Jill college aspirations will raise higher than becoming the mascot - meaning there is a bigger reason for attending college.

[sATL]

8 hours ago, flyingdi said:

They are all pretending to be stupid to thwart us people or the cameramen.

speaking of cameramen - its good to see Mr. Jim, outside of the ultrasound office. I was wondering if he got RIF-ed from the original series.

Edited February 7, 2017 by sATL

[Churchhoney]

8 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

What's wrong with sentence from Jessa: "As a JB's personal conviction, my family doesn't drink alcohol or dance?" 

Jessa, what's the definition of "personal?"

FIFY, Jessa.

[sATL]

Drinking Tomato Sauce via a straw from the can ? Umm..

[Churchhoney]

8 hours ago, Jeeves said:

 

*I strongly believe that when he proposed to Jill, Derick assumed she had the educational background and social skills of the young women he'd grown up with in his Southern Baptist church, and attended [public] school and college with. He found out too late that she was a sheltered, isolated, barely literate, young woman who was emotionally immature, clingy, fragile, and astoundingly ignorant of almost all the things her contemporaries knew about. I wonder if the Duggar parents (and maybe some of the older kids) watched the result of the Tibet-to-Arkansas Skyped courtship, and learned from it. Because I suspect that behind the "made for TV" official short "courtship" timelines, Jinger and Jeremy were somehow allowed some time to get to know each other, and Joy and Austin have also had that. No, they didn't "date" in the usual sense, but they were/are in the same country - and the same place - a lot more than Jill and Derick were.

I think you're probably right about this. But I suspect that Jeremy's chances of hitting massive disillusionment from having married a completely brainwashed complete ignoramus will hit him also, just as it hit Derick, and won't be pretty, either. Despite whatever time Jer and Jinge had together, I don't know that it's possible for a young guy from something like the real modern world who's hot on getting a famous virgin who'll get him on tv (and whatever else was driving Jeremy) to get his mind around the fact that said virgin actually is a completely utterly ignorant 12-year-old who's been so brainwashed that she's likely to never ever have the impetus, ever, to become less ignorant. He was clearly hot on her trail from early on because of his concept of her -- pure, meek, she'll get me on tv, is my guess (and who knows? maybe, like Derick and Bin, he too hadn't been able to get girls before, for whatever reason)--  to be thinking very clearly. Even if he did have six months or so of relatively frequent contact to notice it and think about it. 

Haven't seen anything yet to tell me what Joy's (actually JB's) guy is really like. And he apparently comes from an extremely similar upbringing to what the Duggars had. But I'm convinced that Derick, Bin and Jer are probably all in for a lifetime of sad disillusionment over having married women to homeschool their kids who are more ignorant than most 21st-century guys with at least minimal college educations can readily imagine. Bin may actually have married somebody smarter than he is; but he's a curious person who wants to get out there and learn some things, and Jessa's determinedly not. Derick actually married one of the Duggars who kind of wants to know some things but is too dumb and brainwashed to be able to do it, and he's already had his career dream ruined. And Jeremy's already not allowed to have books openly visible in his own apartment, and his 12-year-old bride goes along with that. How long before all of them see these incredibly ignoramuses teaching their children and end up lying awake every night gnashing their teeth? If the Duggs wanted suitable guys for their daughters, they really needed to pick guys who were as hostile to all knowledge as JB is, if you ask me. Because that's the nature of the daughters JB's created. 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Fostersmom]

I still have glimmers of hope for Jinger and Jessa, Jill's a lost cause. Jinger seemed very comfortable around Jeremy's friends and we saw the Super Bowl party pic of Jessa. At least they are open to being around others who aren't singularly like minded. We saw how Jill all but isolated herself in Central America, went back and forth with him to work everyday, and their entire circle seems to be Duggars. Did Derick have any friends in their wedding? Does he have any friends at all? I think even Jana has friends who aren't family. Jinger and Jessa aren't blazing a non Duggar trail by any means, but baby steps do seem to be being taken. 

[luvbadtv]

8 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

God, Jill's the worst. She couldn't even guess the sex of Jessa's baby because she is "always wrong?" That was just sad. I wonder if there's some emotional abuse going on in that marriage, kind of like what we have seen between Dillon and Famy on that Marriage Rehab show. I wonder if Derick talks down to her at times, and she's truly just given in/up?

My guess is that Derick doesn't have the patience to teach Jill all that she needs to learn.  I'm sure Jill is always wrong and that's what Derick tells her.

[fuzzylollipop]

My favorite part of this episode? 

Jill: "I'll say girl because Derrick says girl and he's always right and I'm always wrong."

...

Strip Mall Ultrasound Tech: "It's a boy!"

[yogi2014L]

I have hope that Jinger will be almost forced to develop a personality by Jeremy. I don't think Jeremy will love having a complete idiot for a wife- he seems like an intelligent guy who has a sense of humor...I think he will get bored of Jinger if she remains a houseplant. He seems like he would have been better suited with Jessa, someone who can banter with him ect. 

At any rate, I do think Jeremy is going to push Jinger to develop an actual personality, So I am excited for that.

Jill and Joy are lost causes. 

[Annb67]

1 hour ago, sATL said:

Drinking Tomato Sauce via a straw from the can ? Umm..

Izzy's favorite snack is tomato sauce? Wth?!

[Marigold]

I think Jeremy knows exactly how meek and stupid Jinger is and he LOVES it. 

He has a kink for being the "teacher" and the "daddy" to Jinger. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Fostersmom said:

I still have glimmers of hope for Jinger and Jessa, Jill's a lost cause. Jinger seemed very comfortable around Jeremy's friends and we saw the Super Bowl party pic of Jessa. At least they are open to being around others who aren't singularly like minded. We saw how Jill all but isolated herself in Central America, went back and forth with him to work everyday, and their entire circle seems to be Duggars. Did Derick have any friends in their wedding? Does he have any friends at all? I think even Jana has friends who aren't family. Jinger and Jessa aren't blazing a non Duggar trail by any means, but baby steps do seem to be being taken. 

I want to see what Jessa and Jinger do when they're in a foreign country, far from their families, living among people whose language they don't speak. And far from any old friends of their husbands as well. (Derick does at least have a few -- they've been seen at his wedding and he's gone to weddings of theirs and so on.)

I really don't think Jessa's and Jingers' current situations are remotely comparable to what Jill experienced. They're still hanging out with a bunch of U.S. fundamentalists ( not all of the same exact stripe as they are, but still) who speak English.

I suppose I'm just a person who overreacts to being in other countries, but personally I've found that, compared to how I am in a situation where the language and people are basically familiar, my ability to relax and feel competent and confident is pretty compromised when I'm in a place where I don't speak the language or barely speak it and most everybody around me has a quite different background than mine. That makes me feel more sympathy with Jill, I guess, compared to the way folks view her who quickly feel completely at home abroad. ..... Nevertheless, I don't think Jill and I are the only ones inhibited by such situations, and I would bet that Jessa and Jinge would turn out more like us than they would like the ones who take it all in stride. 

I really doubt that Jessa or Jinger, based on what we've seen of them, would fare a lot better in Danger America than Jill did. I don't see that they're much different. Jessa may not take Bin his lunch at work every day, but it seems that may have more to do with the fact that Bin seems to stay home just about as much as she does and when he does go to mow a lawn or something, Jessa often goes with him. And of course when she went to give speeches at "women's" shows, he went with her. I'm not seeing a big difference between Jill and her sisters, really. After all, Jill went out and did the whole kinda sorta midwife thing, being among people and working, according to her lights anyway. And Jessa and Jinge never tried anything like that. Jinge could have done it as a photographer, for example, but she seemed to do very little but photograph her immediate family. And what has Jessa ever done outside the home that took any initiative or ease with strangers, except attend a few parties with her husband? 

I agree that Jessa and Jinge may fare better than Jill, but I think it's probably more because they haven't been and never will be as severely tested as she's been. She's had a severe test and been ripped up by it, and that's probably going to affect her forever to some degree unfortunately. They're not being tested nearly as much, so they're unscathed. To me, the evidence points to their just being "luckier," if you can call it that, not inherently better or stronger.

7 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I think Jeremy knows exactly how meek and stupid Jinger is and he LOVES it. 

He has a kink for being the "teacher" and the "daddy" to Jinger. 

Oh, I agree with that. For now. But even if you love the power it gives you, I expect that living with the ignorance forever and watching it teach your children and let Jessa run roughshod over your home forever may get to anybody after a few years, even if they do enjoy the power trip. .... Just because he likes it in one way doesn't mean he's going to like it in all ways. .... Isn't it true that often the thing that most annoys us about our partners eventually is also one of the things we've found most attractive about them in the beginning? 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Churchhoney

[luvmylabs]

I have little snark for this episode.  I did an escape room (we didn't make it out on time) and it was great fun.  Loved the men vs. women aspect.  The golf game looked like a blast.  Jeremy's outfit...shades of Payne Stewart!  Glad Izzy got a chance to do the very normal thing of attending the homecoming parade.  Quite a contrast to his Duggar uncles and aunts.  The information about Derick's dad was sweet.  He obviously loved his dad very much.  Hope the Duggar girls will change as they get out in the world with more normal people.  I can dream!

[MV713]

Homecoming?  Oh, that's when everyone comes home.

Homecoming?  Oh, um we are homeschooled so we always are at home.

It took 21 strokes to get one ball in the hole.

And disgusting to Izzy drinking his favorite snack - tomato sauce out of the can!  People who "grocery shop" should know you can buy tomato juice to drink FFS.

[Arwen Evenstar]

44 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

agree that Jessa and Jinge may fare better than Jill, but I think it's probably more because they haven't been and never will be as severely tested as she's been. She's had a severe test and been ripped up by it, and that's probably going to affect her forever to some degree unfortunately. They're not being tested nearly as much, so they're unscathed. To me, the evidence points to their just being "luckier," if you can call it that, not inherently better or stronge

This was a great post, and it seems we've had a really lively discussion with lots of other great posts...it looks like I'm late to the party this morning.  Can't add much more to the discussion, only that it's not really fair to compare Jill to Jinger and Jess.  Before Jill went to CA, she'd only ever lived on the compound. I think she would have adjusted better if she and Derick had lived in another city or state for a while. She'd never been on her own, and in CA she was isolated from the life she knew in a place where it would have been unwise to stray too far from home.

[Annb67]

After watching this episode and the "definition" of homecoming I have a feeling that reading comprehension went something like this:

Mom: Now read this sentence The cat ran up a tree. Joy what happened in this sentence?

Joy: The cat ran up a tree.

Good job Joy. You get a high school diploma

[Marigold]

I also think that Jill has the loser husband. Derick is not well himself. Many of us suspect some type of mental health issues not to mention health issues. 

Ben is a dope but seems like a normal dope.  Jeremy is an oddball but a normal oddball.  Both Ben and Jeremy can help "normal up" the Duggars a bit.  Jessa and Jeremy actually married up with those guys. Both Jessa and Jinger got a bit smarter, worldlier and just generally better than before they were married/courted. 

Jill?   She looks like she has really had a rough year or two.   Derick? Something is way off with this guy.  So poor Jill, who is probably the weakest of the Duggar girls, marries someone who is unstable. I feel that Derick actually drags her down. I can't stand Derick. I hate his pretend missionary job. I hate Jill was miserable and he didn't seem to care and is pretty damn adamant that they are returning. he is so self involved in his delusions and Jill is so repressed and Oppressed that she cannot speak up for herself; she probably doesn't realize that she has her own opinions.  It's a terrible situation to see play out in 2017. 

I dislike Jill the most but I also feel the most sorry for Jill.  :(

[toodles]

2 hours ago, Annb67 said:

Izzy's favorite snack is tomato sauce? Wth?!

Haven't they heard of v8?  Why would you even think of giving a baby tomato sauce as a snack?  I'm just gobsmacked.  For this crowd, that's saying something.

Edited February 7, 2017 by toodles

[sATL]

2 hours ago, Annb67 said:

Izzy's favorite snack is tomato sauce? Wth?!

I thought tomato sauce was something you cook with - ie put it in something else.. not turn it up like a cocktail...

And straight out of the can ???? are they on a camping trip ?? lose power for an extended period of time? I guess I've been watching too many shows were people are eating off of fine china or take out containers.. Damn...

Why can't a tomato, in its natural state be a snack ? Izzy does (or should) have teeth . cut it into wedges  and let him snack away.

[Arwen Evenstar]

29 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Jill?   She looks like she has really had a rough year or two.   Derick? Something is way off with this guy.  So poor Jill, who is probably the weakest of the Duggar girls, marries someone who is unstable. I feel that Derick actually drags her down. I can't stand Derick. I hate his pretend missionary job. I hate Jill was miserable and he didn't seem to care and is pretty damn adamant that they are returning. he is so self involved in his delusions and Jill is so repressed and Oppressed that she cannot speak up for herself; she probably doesn't realize that she has her own opinions.  It's a terrible situation to see play out in 2017. 

I dislike Jill the most but I also feel the most sorry for Jill.  :(

THIS!!!!! So repressed and oppressed that she can't speak up for herself.  I think she came that way to the marriage, but if Derick is condescending and always talks down to her and drags her along to play "missionary", she will only become more so than she was. 

She was already destroyed by what Josh did to her, only to have her shame made public...and then forced to defend her abuser on national TV. I think that's when we saw whatever life and sparkle that was behind her eyes leave her. If anyone had done such a thing to me and the whole world came to know about it, I would feel that shame of people knowing about it, too. Even though I would have received therapy and would have been reassured that it wasn't my fault, it's certainly a scar I would want to keep buried and only discussed on a "need to know" basis.

She's one hurting little girl, and I say little girl because emotionally that's where she is. Derick needs to grow a set, get a proper corporate job AWAY from the compound, otherwise Jill will never get to grow up.  She's a withering rose, fed a diet of toxic sludge and kept away from light, and she will never flourish as long as she stays anywhere near the compound. It says in the Bible to build your house upon a rock, Boob, not a landfill.   It's ironic, given the Duggar kids have been given a toxic upbringing from their environment on all scores.

[Marigold]

Excellent Post, Arwen

Totally agree, her situation being exposed and then the Megyn interview where she sincerely defended her brother...only to have hookers, sex toys and cheating come to light.  I think that was Jill's breaking point. She must've been humiliated on so many levels. 

I dislike Jill but I feel very sorry for her. Derick is no prize either. 

[ariel]

1 hour ago, toodles said:

Haven't they heard of v8?  Why would you even think of giving a baby tomato sauce as a snack?  I'm just gobsmacked.  For this crowd, that's saying something.

V8 has been around forever &  is available in most supermarkets.  A much better choice than the tomato sauce.  They do make some healthier versions of V8, but the Duggars are too stupid & cheap to look into it.  God forbid if it cuts into their Starbucks & "date night" budget.

[Arwen Evenstar]

I think if I were Jill, my breaking point would have been to be forced to publicly forgive him in front of a church congregation or gathering of Gothard minions and then be forced to minimize what he did to me on national TV. Yeah, only makes it worse that later another sex scandal broke after that.

They seem to revile porn and adultery more than what Josh did to them?

Derick is certainly no prize at all. In nature, the male's responsibility is to provide, protect, and procreate. He's shown us that he's capable of procreation, albeit that it's a brain bleach worthy spectacle of awkwardness, teeth, and gangly limbs.  However, providing for his mate and brood and protecting her? Not so much. 

I can give Jill passes all day long because of her lack of a normal upbringing and what her brother did to her, but Derick, I cannot.  He went to public school and university, and lived away from home and abroad. Even if he was a geeky virgin before he got married, he had plenty of life experiences that Jill has yet to have. Derick should have some idea of How the World Actually Works. Godly men put on their Big Boy pants and work to provide. 

[cereality]

And Derick KNOWS that Godly men put on their big boy pants and provide - bc his dad who he looked up to did it. He said he did everything like his dad - ran track, swimming, pistol Pete, same college etc. So why not work like dad did? Not saying he has to be - or even could be - a cop, but he majored in accounting and economics and held down a job at a Fortune 500 for a year - so clearly he's capable of it. Me thinks part of it is looking around and seeing that your FIL and your 50 BILs roll out of bed at noon and yet still have a huge home, cars, latest iPhones etc so why should he slog 40 hrs/wk now that he's married into a situation where that isn't necessary? Something isn't right with Derick.

Oh and seeing him on the float surrounded by all the other guys REALLY highlighted how much weight he's lost. He did not look like that when getting married - not at all. Why not go get a physical - not with your wife which they did last episode (ew - who wants to do a dr appt like that in front of anyone) - but go to U Arkansas, have a full work up, and make a plan for how to proceed . . . .

[sheshark]

Most hated moments:  The Lost Girls were still lost.  Why couldn't they have some cheap little plastic bracelet-making set to have fun with along with Miracle Josie and the others? 

Jill and Derick not giving Cathy a hug when she tearfully recalled going to Derick's dorm room to tell him of the loss of his Dad.  Jill didn't even look at her.

Jinger did the laundry and the food shopping and took the littles out for fun.  What does the 'patient' Xanax queen do?

Joy speaking.  

[Minivanessa]

45 minutes ago, cereality said:

And Derick KNOWS that Godly men put on their big boy pants and provide - bc his dad who he looked up to did it. He said he did everything like his dad - ran track, swimming, pistol Pete, same college etc. So why not work like dad did? Not saying he has to be - or even could be - a cop, but he majored in accounting and economics and held down a job at a Fortune 500 for a year - so clearly he's capable of it. Me thinks part of it is looking around and seeing that your FIL and your 50 BILs roll out of bed at noon and yet still have a huge home, cars, latest iPhones etc so why should he slog 40 hrs/wk now that he's married into a situation where that isn't necessary? Something isn't right with Derick.

Preach. And not only did Derick see his *dad* go off to work, he saw his *mom* work too. She had a responsible job with I think Walmart corporate and then started her own company. So though he came from that background, he's spent most of his life after college graduation? As a grifter/drifter/Duggar-in-law missionary-wannabe, with only a short time working at a real job. 

Either he really prefers the roll-out-of-bed-at-noon lifestyle (@cereality - I LOVE that phrase, and the "50 BILs"!!), or he's so beat down right now that he doesn't have the energy to buck the Duggar system and get a real full time job. Because among other things, I'm sure Jill would hate the idea. So they continue this faux missionary gig and get the TLC and People checks, and keep scrounging for those donations. 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Jeeves

[Marigold]

Derick is a pretender. Pretend Nepal missionary.  Pretend career for a year. Pretend CA missionary. 

Derick has always been delusional but it's magnified now that he has a wife, child and a baby on the way. It's like blaring obvious that Derick is unstable and has issues. 

The Duggar Kidults do appear to be lazy, Derick seemed to be bumming around way before he asked Jim Bob to be his prayer partner and met Jilly Giggles. 

[bigskygirl]

Derick did work a normal 8 to 5 Monday to Friday job, but Jill and I bet dollars to donuts, JB did not care for it. I think he blindly went along with what she wanted at the beginning in order not to upset her, but he has been beaten down by Jill and JB. I cannot imagine what it would be like to have your wife drive you back and forth to work or bring you lunch every freaking work day, have your in-laws come with her or be surrounded by your in-laws constantly, the news your brother-in-law molested your wife being broadcasted for the world to see and hear, your mother seriously ill, and having a baby so fast. I would lose what is left of my mind of I spent five minutes with Jill and/or the rest of the Duggars. She had to have known he wanted to be a missionary when they first started courting, so I am not buying the fact she had no clue what Derick wanted to do besides work at Wal-Mart. I do not think he cares too much about the in-laws, but he does not mind if they come by and help out or babysit Izzy so he and Jill can have some time alone. He did complain about having to take Izzy with them to their last anniversary dinner and wishes a family member was close by to take Izzy off their hands. I think they are both emotionally and physically beaten down, and they both need to wake up and smell the coffee. And once again the sad and scary thing in all of this is the fact Izzy and baby number 2 is and will be paying the price for their parent's unhappiness and potential medical issues.

[cereality]

I wonder how much of it is sheer physical exhaustion from Derick. He doesn't look great - he doesn't even look normal for himself, if how we saw him at the wedding was his normal. I have to imagine that in addition to being that thin, he may have some very real physical fatigue happening - ESP if there's some vitamin deficiencies etc. Those types of things make it very hard to make any changes in your life - you just slog thru the day to day and in his case - a day to day of waking up whenever, playing with Iz, bible study, and lounging around the house may be all the energy he has. I'm not saying he's looking to go back to WMT - but given that he's done being in CA full time, maybe he had a plan back in the day for being a missionary for a few yrs and then a corporate job using his accounting/Econ degrees. But right now even considering what to do 40 hrs a wk after CA may be exhausting to him.

[Marigold]

10 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

 I think they are both emotionally and physically beaten down, and they both need to wake up and smell the coffee. And once again the sad and scary thing in all of this is the fact Izzy and baby number 2 is and will be paying the price for their parent's unhappiness and potential medical issues.

I agree.

Derick was a missionary in Nepal before so both Jill and Derick knew that the "mission field" was in their plans.

However, in life, sometimes things don't work out like you planned and you need to change course.  Derick has made up his mind that HE IS GOING TO BE A MISSIONARY, DAMMIT, AND NO ONE IS GOING TO STOP HIM.

Inflexible thinking.  As adults, we need to constantly assess and adjust according to what life throws at us.  Derick and Jill cannot do this and insist on jamming a square peg in a round hole with this ridiculous missionary facade.  

Derick, The mission field is not working for your family right now  It's OK. Step aside and let the money be given to another person/family who can do a better job.  You can get Jill's mental health under control  and address your own health issues. Izzy will be happier when his parents are in better shape. CA will be there in a few years when things are better. Right now, no one is benefiting from your family being there.  

Are we a missionary for our own self image or because we are really trying to help people, either spiritually or physically? 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Marigold

[ariel]

When I first saw one of Jill & Derick's engagement pictures ( it was the one in front of an old car) , I thought he wasn't bad looking & looked ok.  That picture may have been  airbrushed.

[bigskygirl]

Hmmm...about Derick getting Jill's mental health under control. She is too dependent on him already. Yes, he can be supportive and understanding when it comes to her mental healthcare, but by letting her cling to him like there is no tomorrow, he would only set her back instead of helping. Sometimes a spouse needs to let go a little in order for the other spouse to get better. Imo, Jill getting married and having Izzy so fast did more damage to her wellbeing. I hope they both come to terms with reality and get the help they desperately need before the damage gets worse. I know, wishful thinking.

[Evagirl]

When Derrick was first introduced into the show, he had a step-dad.  That's when his mom was real sick.  He never spoke on the show, but Derrick did refer to him as his step-father as he was with Derrick's mom quite a bit on the show.  But I've not seen him or heard anything about him since Derrick's brother got married (I think he got married).  Anyhoo. . . I was wondering if any of you have heard anything about him.  It is so obvious that Derrick's mom is still broken up by the death of Derrick's dad, which happened at least 10 years ago.  She may have just been feeling sentimental, but I got the feeling that the step-dad is no longer in the picture and that Derrick's dad will always be the love of her life.

[Marigold]

13 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

When Derrick was first introduced into the show, he had a step-dad.  That's when his mom was real sick.  He never spoke on the show, but Derrick did refer to him as his step-father as he was with Derrick's mom quite a bit on the show.  But I've not seen him or heard anything about him since Derrick's brother got married (I think he got married).  Anyhoo. . . I was wondering if any of you have heard anything about him.  It is so obvious that Derrick's mom is still broken up by the death of Derrick's dad, which happened at least 10 years ago.  She may have just been feeling sentimental, but I got the feeling that the step-dad is no longer in the picture and that Derrick's dad will always be the love of her life.

That's a good point. You actually forget that Cathy is married again!

Maybe they split up? Maybe he hates the Duggars?  

It's like he evaporated! 

[Arwen Evenstar]

14 minutes ago, Marigold said:

That's a good point. You actually forget that Cathy is married again!

Maybe they split up? Maybe he hates the Duggars?  

It's like he evaporated! 

Internet FU coming soon...though that said, I sincerely hope Miss Cathy and her hubs haven't split up.

What I found most disturbing was I caught myself tearing up when Miss Cathy told how she came to Derick's dorm to tell him "the news" about his dad...and there was Jill just gawping at her with this wooden look.  Even though in her defense it was a reenactment...but still would have made me bawl.

Too look at Jill, the lights are sometimes on, but she's never home...

[ariel]

31 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

 It is so obvious that Derrick's mom is still broken up by the death of Derrick's dad, which happened at least 10 years ago.  She may have just been feeling sentimental, but I got the feeling that the step-dad is no longer in the picture and that Derrick's dad will always be the love of her life.

While I feel for Cathy losing the love of her life, it has to suck being the step-dad.  Maybe Cathy shouldn't have re-married.  Maybe she re-married for financial reasons.

[DangerousMinds]

I would love if all of these women realized that they do NOT need a man to provide or protect, they are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. And when married, they can provide and protect each other.

[Sew Sumi]

Another possible hint: Cathy used to refer to herself as Cathy Dillard Byrum on twitter. Her handle has always been @cldilla, but she used to have her full name in her profile. Now, it's just Cathy. Maybe her post-cancer zealotry was more than he could stand. 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[BitterApple]

7 hours ago, yogi2014L said:

I have hope that Jinger will be almost forced to develop a personality by Jeremy. I don't think Jeremy will love having a complete idiot for a wife- he seems like an intelligent guy who has a sense of humor...I think he will get bored of Jinger if she remains a houseplant. He seems like he would have been better suited with Jessa, someone who can banter with him ect. 

 

That's why I can't understand Jeremy's attraction to Jinger. He's got friends who are Yale grads, and he chooses to pick a wife from the most ignorant family in America? And it's not even like the Duggars are "dumb but willing to learn." They wear their stupidity like a badge of honor. 

Edited February 7, 2017 by BitterApple

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

That's why I can't understand Jeremy's attraction to Jinger. He's got friends who are Yale grads, and he chooses to pick a wife from the most ignorant family in America? And it's not even like the Duggars are "dumb but willing to learn." They wear their stupidity like a badge of honor. 

THIS!!!!

[yogi2014L]

Just now, BitterApple said:

That's why I can't understand Jeremy's attraction to Jinger. He's got friends who are Yale grads, and he chooses to pick a wife from the most ignorant family in America? And it's not even like the Duggars are "dumb but willing to learn." They wear their stupidity like a badge of honor. 

Yes, I wonder that too. Maybe he is enjoying it now ( the whole gross let me show you the world daddy complex), but I don't think he will love it in the long run. he seems so normal. Its mind boggling. Maybe she secretly told Jeremy he needs to get her the fuck out of there and is just playing it up for the cameras so Daddy Duggar didn't pull the plug on her only way out. ( unlikely but it is my hope LOL)

[ariel]

1 minute ago, yogi2014L said:

Yes, I wonder that too. Maybe he is enjoying it now ( the whole gross let me show you the world daddy complex), but I don't think he will love it in the long run.

It might make sense if it was the old rich dude marrying the hot model trophy wife (especially if English wasn't her first language) for arm candy  ;)

With these two it doesn't make sense.

[Almost 3000]

15 hours ago, Jeeves said:

And I can't forget that IMO, when Derick proposed he had very wrong ideas of who Jill really was*, which is hard enough on a marriage even without all the stuff they've gone through including his surgery, Joshgate, a near-disastrous childbirth, his continued health issues, and whatever happened in Central America which I believe was way worse than a broken shower rack but they (probably wisely) aren't disclosing.

Would someone please fill me in on the "shower rack issue" because somehow I've managed to miss that catastrophe and it keeps coming up as something that really shook up Jill. I don't get it or maybe that's the point...

[Churchhoney]

15 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

That's why I can't understand Jeremy's attraction to Jinger. He's got friends who are Yale grads, and he chooses to pick a wife from the most ignorant family in America? And it's not even like the Duggars are "dumb but willing to learn." They wear their stupidity like a badge of honor. 

Yeah. And it seems that his family, and probably he as well, have pretensions to being cultured, intellectual even. So why pick people who seriously believe that God gave us brains to trick us into using them so he could send us to hell for putting our brains above him? And how are he and his family going to like it when his kids are being "taught" by one of these people? How are his kids going to get into a decent college? And wouldn't their failure to do so -- or even try for it, if they go with the usual Duggar mold -- bother the heck out of his parents and him? Unless you're really in rebellion -- or temporarily insane -- I don't see why you'd marry somebody so far off the apparent usual mode of you and your family. Especially not if you went after the person on purpose rather than meeting them by chance and falling madly uncontrollably in love with them somehow. His choice of Jinger makes absolutely no sense to me at all. 

[sATL]

Spoiler

32 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Another possible hint: Cathy used to refer to herself as Cathy Dillard Byrum on twitter. Her handle has always been @cldilla, but she used to have her full name in her profile. Now, it's just Cathy. Maybe her post-cancer zealotry was more than he could stand. 

 

still searching for Mr. Byrum.. On Ms. Cathy website she has a pix of the family minus her husband.

Jill is wearing her signature orange shirt (link). her Instagram has pix of her new daughter-in-law and other pix of older men, one of which could be her hubby (link). I don't have an Instagram account so I may be limited in what I can/can't see.

Edited February 7, 2017 by sATL

[Sew Sumi]

27 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

That's why I can't understand Jeremy's attraction to Jinger. He's got friends who are Yale grads, and he chooses to pick a wife from the most ignorant family in America? And it's not even like the Duggars are "dumb but willing to learn." They wear their stupidity like a badge of honor. 

And this is PRECISELY why they deserve to be grilled about popular culture by the producers. 

[Churchhoney]

42 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Another possible hint: Cathy used to refer to herself as Cathy Dillard Byrum on twitter. Her handle has always been @cldilla, but she used to have her full name in her profile. Now, it's just Cathy. Maybe her post-cancer zealotry was more than he could stand. 

I think they broke up. It's hard to tell with these online directories. But it looks to me as if he may no longer be at the address where they were living together in Rogers, Arkansas. But she's still there -- and listed as Cathy L. Dillard. .... That could be hogwash,  of course, given the vagaries of online records. But I'm sort of thinking it might be legit. I hope that's not true. But he does seem to have become even more elusive than he was to begin with. .... Although I always wondered what it said about your feelings about your second marriage if you kept using your first husband's name during it.....

Edited February 7, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Arwen Evenstar]

8 minutes ago, sATL said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

still searching for Mr. Byrum.. On Ms. Cathy website she has a pix of the family minus her husband.

Jill is wearing her signature orange shirt (link). her Instagram has pix of her new daughter-in-law and other pix of older men, one of which could be her hubby (link). I don't have an Instagram account so I may be limited in what I can/can't see.

Perhaps Mr Byrum wants his name completely off social media so stalkers and paps and the morbidly curious won't come around bothering him and his family. My hubs told me that if I want a SM page that I'm to leave his name out of it and not to post anything about him or pictures of him/us.