S02.E20: Seeing Red

[ElectricBoogaloo]

ROY SPINS OUT OF CONTROL — The mirakuru sends Roy into an uncontrollable rage and he unleashes on the city. After Roy’s deadly fight with a police officer, Oliver realizes the mirakuru has taken over Roy completely and must figure out a way to stop him. Things get more complicated after Sara declares that Roy is too far gone and the only way to stop him is to kill him. Meanwhile, Thea believes she can breakthrough to Roy so she goes on camera at Moira’s campaign rally to lure him to Verdant. Her ploy works but after Roy attacks Thea, Team Arrow unleashes on him.

[BkWurm1]

I recall that they originally were going to call this episode "Red Lights"  Curious to see how that fits in or if it even does.

[Jediknight]

That was a loaded episode.

Connor Hawke is canon in Arrow. I can honestly say I wasn't expecting that, much less them bringing it up in the second season.

Moira knew Oliver was The Arrow, so that's something else I wasn't expecting. Although it would have been nice if she apologized for shooting Oliver. The least she could have said was "Sorry about shooting you last year."

Moira's dead, not too surprising. And her death means Thea is about to find out Oliver is The Arrow, and this will probably put her down the Speedy path. She'll want to learn from Oliver, and take down villains.

Roy is now a wanted murderer. That's going to make for some interesting interactions between Oliver and Quentin. Roy killed a cop, so Quentin will be looking for him.

And to top all that off, it looks like Sara will not die. It does look like next season will be Sara's redemption, as she moves away from being an assassin to becoming a hero. And she might be going to see Ras al Ghul.

[Grammaeryn]

Wow.  I knew Moira was toast when she admitted knowing Oliver is The Arrow.  I thought she would be eventual toast.  WOW.  She was going to tell them Malcolm was alive - argh!  Oh yeah, no present day Laurel immediately made this episode good.  Some of the dialogue was atrocious though.  I was giggling like a loon over Sara's speech about giving her soul to the devil.  Girl chill the fuck out and hang with the Winchesters.

[quarks]

I seriously needed a drink after this episode.

 

1. It's admittedly a very small point, but, why, exactly, did the mother of Oliver's baby (Connor Hawke, everyone is telling me?) agree to walk away with just two million? It was obvious Moira would be willing to pay a lot, lot more, and we've been told the family is worth at least one billion. Also, Moira, I can't help but think that your whole "I am concerned about my grandchild" deal would have gone over a lot better if you'd made plans to see said grandchild instead of making plans to immediately send the grandchild away.

 

2. Episode after episode with limited physical contact/affectionate gestures from Oliver and Sara leads to one thing: I knew the minute we saw them in bed together that they would be breaking up by the end of the episode.

 

3. I can't take credit for seeing this, since others pointed it out first, but...Sara, leaving the city at a time when you KNOW Slade is after you and your family? I more than sincerely hope she's riding off to find the League of Assassins. Also, was that Oliver's motorcycle? I kinda hope she was stealing it.

 

4. I did laugh out loud at the comment about Oliver's tight pants.  

 

5. This wasn't really the fault of the show, but every time I saw Krycek I kept expecting him to pick up the phone and call in to the Cigarette Smoking Man, and now that I think about it, it's very possible that the Cigarette Smoking Man seriously hates Moira Queen for one reason or another and engineered all this. I can fanwank that. Or that Krycek is reporting to others now. I'll fanwank that too. Have we now seen the last of Krycek? Maybe.

 

6. I know that male characters have also been killed off on the show to increase Oliver's manpain. I do get that. At the same time, this is the second woman fridged this season, and also, Oliver already had a parent die by violence right in front of him, though the samurai sword thing made me jump a bit. Add in that as a result we just lost one of the best actresses of the show, and....AUUUGH.

Edited April 24, 2014 by quarks

[catrox14]

Oh fuck you show.  I am so upset right now. 

 

I was upset about Tommy dying but I am devastated about Moira.  Susannah Thompson was the best actor on the show. 

 

I started crying when she told Ollie she knew he was the Arrow.  That was such a great unexpected twist. I was so happy that they had Ollie and Moira reunited. And then they fucking take it all away. 

 

I am crushed.

 

And Ollie is a dad?  I'm just glad it wasn't Sarah or Laurel's.

 

My head is spinning right now.  Geez

Edited April 24, 2014 by catrox14

[Lantern7]

I'm still stunned by the sudden death even with the blatant telegraphing in play. Moira's death obscures stuff like the Queen money woes*, Laurel's non-appearance, and Roy going Zombie Red Lantern to the point of manslaughter. All because Slade Wilson is a bastard that can't let shit slide.

 

*In the comics (pre-new52 canon, anyway), didn't Ollie lose his fortune before becoming a "hero of the people"? It's not like I'd expect Amell to grow a comical goatee, but that could be a new status quo in an upcoming season.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Lantern7

[quarks]

Oliver still owns the club though, right? Thea just manages it. So he should have some income, even if the club is not exactly great at keeping bartenders around.

[Monty]

Oliver still owns the club though, right? Thea just manages it.

That should be true, since Thea took it over while Oliver was on the island between seasons. But the show has acted like Thea owns it somehow.

[quarks]

Then why hasn't she, as the owner of this club, investigated the basement?

 

....I know.  I should not waste time on silly questions.

 

On a completely different note, I did like the reminders that Starling City does have some completely decent people: the guys that stepped forward to protect Sin when they thought Roy was harassing her, and the doctor dude. 

[BkWurm1]

I didn't see Oliver actually having a child out there coming.  I really thought Moira would expose the girl as a gold digger, but to instead pay her off because Oliver couldn't wrap his mind around it?  Yes, Oliver was scared and afraid and couldn't picture his future but the more I think about it, the more horrible I find it. 

 

She stole his child from him.  Moira is parent, she above anyone else should understand the love and responsibility that comes with that fact.  I understand she thought she was stepping in and making it all better but I really feel from Oliver's reaction that he deserved better than that.  His whole life could have gone in a different direction.  If he'd been forced to grow up and be accountable for his actions I can't help think he would never have been on that island in the first place.  Then we wouldn't have a show but still!! 

 

Moira's death is a blow not just to the characters but to the show.  It's a real shame to lose Susanna Thompson from the show.  I was really looking forward to more interaction between her and Merlyn not to mention putting her with anyone on Team Arrow.

 

Switching to the Sara stuff.  She breaks up with Oliver because her instincts are still kill first and she cares too much for Oliver to be with him.  Basically she said what I and lots of others expressed, that Oliver and Sara were too damaged in the same ways to build each other up.  Oliver wanted to try, but he can't it seems express why she should hold on to hope. 

 

I also think Sara broke things off because after all they'd been through, Oliver didn't really want to move in with her, he just thought it made sense.  Had Oliver ever said he loved her, would she have gone?  I don't think so. 

 

I have some further thoughts about the implication of why she was leaving Oliver but I'm going to bring that over to the Felicity thread. 

Edited April 24, 2014 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

I really liked the doctor dude. That was a nice touch, and a call-back to the earlier episode.

 

I think Sara went to Nyssa and the LoA for help.  It was clear they couldn't do anything to Roy much less Slade and his army so it would be time to call out the very big guns.

 

I will truly miss Moira.  Not only was Susannah Thompson an actor who could make a silk purse out of the very hackneyed dialogue they gave her, I loved her Lady Macbeth ruthlessness to get what she wanted.  She was a good counterpoint to the flat-out craziness of Slade and Malcolm Merlyn.

 

 

Also, Moira, I can't help but think that your whole "I am concerned about my grandchild" deal would have gone over a lot better if you'd made plans to see said grandchild instead of making plans to immediately send the grandchild away.

I think it would have been too dangerous to see the grandchild because someone would have figured it out.  With the paparazzi after Playboy Oliver, some enterprising tabloid reported would have done some digging if Moira had been paying visits to a baby.

 

I would, however, be upset if she didn't hold a watching brief over the child since she kept talking about important family is.  It's possible that having a baby would have changed Oliver but I think that's more true in fiction than in real life.

[SleepDeprived]

 

On a completely different note, I did like the reminders that Starling City does have some completely decent people: the guys that stepped forward to protect Sin when they thought Roy was harassing her, and the doctor dude.

Let's just hope that this particular doctor actually takes the HIPAA seriously and doesn't go telling everyone how he met the Arrow and Canary this one time and he has the x-rays to prove it! Those x-rays could be breadcrumbs to even more people finding out that Arrow is Oliver Queen. I do wish the doctor taught Oliver how to administer Lidocaine properly, though. For the kind of pain he was in, it's usually administered through the IV, and monitored carefully. The adverse effects can lead to cardiac arrest, after all, but Oliver just went and stuck himself in the thigh with it. And, although, it can sometimes be administered intramuscularly, he better hope that it was diluted properly and wasn't actually "all of it" that was in the vial, otherwise Oliver will have a whole other world of health problems than just the wear and tear on his body.

 

Sleep tight, Moira Queen. I will truly miss you. You went out like a boss when you stood up and sacrificed yourself for your children. Susanna Thompson was the best actor on this show, bar none. And, yep, I started tearing up the moment she went "close your eyes, baby" to Thea followed by Slade skewering her with a sword, Buffy style. Good grief, this episode weighed heavily on my heart.

 

It was nice seeing Sin again. And the Diggle/Thea talk was a very welcome one. More interactions with characters that haven't interacted before, please!

Edited April 24, 2014 by SleepDeprived

[Happy Harpy]

I think it was an excellent episode. Packed with action, good big and small characters moments, an unpredictable outcome that didn't come out of nowhere, and balance in screentime/focus.

Loved Diggle/anyone moments, Felicity/Diggle, and Felicity/Oliver moments the best. Glad for the Sara/Oliver break-up, an adult and sensible one in spite of the "you deserve better" cliché; they work well as friends but not at all as lovers for me and I never understood the point of the redux.

 

Nevertheless:

-The tone of the show is getting a bit too dark, the general atmosphere starts to be oppressive. I miss the progression to hero status, there should be at least moments of enthusiasm and epic victories here and there. Both Oliver and Thea going repeatedly through the ringer isn't what I expected.

-I hope the EPs really know what they're doing. I'm not sure that killing off Moira isn't a huge mistake, even bigger than Tommy's death was imo. I think there's a lot of potential storylines for her that are going to waste, and she was an extremely important player through her connections with organizations and characters (QC, LoA, Malcolm, Walter, etc.) as well as her status as the Queen matriarch. Felicity and Diggle are the most important characters after Oliver for me, but Moira was certainly the most polyvalent of the whole cast. Was it wise to deprive the show of such a character?

-I'm not enthusiastic about Oliver potentially having a child. Now that the sisters swapping is done, please no return of the baby mama. And keep the kid as the  foreshadowing of future CW-required teenage character, if Arrow sees 10 seasons.

 

 

I really liked the doctor dude. That was a nice touch, and a call-back to the earlier episode.

Me too! It's nice that the good Oliver did ripples back to him, just like his mistakes do.

 

The writers wouldn't manage to make Laurel look more like a moron if they tried ("you're so cute", oh pleaaase!). Oliver had better find comfort mutually with Thea, and in Diggle/Felicity or Sara after his mother's death. Because if the writers use, in any way, Moira's death in favor of Laurel's screentime and try yet again to give her an importance in Oliver's life at the sake of the characters he's really close to (his real friends, those who know all about him) I'm going to hurl.

[Sakura12]

If this show is going to become just one big depressing fest, I won't be watching anymore. 

 

I get that they like doing let's bring them to their lowest so they can pick themselves up again storyline (this one is much better than whatever Laurel's was), but that means that Oliver needs to win the war against Slade and not just a battle. Otherwise what's the point? I want to watch my hero win not get beaten down again and again. That's not fun to watch. 

 

They killed Moira, if anyone else dies I probably won't be watching next season and yes that includes Laurel now. Because then we'll just be back to square one next season and this season was depressing enough. People can just move because that town is deathtrap they don't have to die. I'm sure Oliver would be upset if Laurel and/or Sara moved away for good. But he would still have his sanity and could keep fighting another day. 

Edited April 24, 2014 by Sakura12

[Tara Ariano]

Here's Monty's post on the episode!

[BkWurm1]

In Monty's post he checks to see if the "everybody is watching TV" trope is going on and notes in this case Felicity actually reads some news articles but i think the trope still applies to this episode in a big way. Now it happens completely off screen but Thea was making a pretty big assumption when she broadcast her location on live TV. If Roy had been normal Roy I'd let it pass, but it absurdly ridiculous to suggest that the raging zombie Roy out there on the streets found the time or place to hang quietly and catch up on the news .

[ChelseaNH]

Moira's decision was obvious once Slade spelled out the choices.  It was clear she impressed him.  I think that's why he used the sword instead of the gun -- he was treating her like more of a warrior and less of a victim.  (And it allowed a little fake-out, of course.)  I'm hoping we'll see more of Moira in flashbacks, because Susannah Thompson is too good to let go of entirely.  (On the very small upside, there's a good chance we'll see Walter at the funeral, right?)

 

I'm hoping Slade manages to get the mirakuru cure, because Slade is too dangerous to leave alive but I don't want Manu Bennett off my television.

[arjumand]

You know, it was a really good episode (especially when compared to the snoozefest I watched yesterday, a.k.a. Marvel's Agents of ZZZZzzzzzzzz), and everybody was on their A game, there was only a few minutes of Laurel, Thea dialed down the annoying factor from 10 to, oh, 8.5 and I liked it. But I am so pissed off right now. Of all the people to be killed off, Moira Queen? Come on.

Arrow, I'm going to need you to go to your room and THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE DONE.

At this point, I just want Slade Wilson gone. Fuck off, asshole. You had one fucking job, getting the worst actress on tv right now off our screens, but nooooooo, you just dropped by to have a fucking chat. Mirakuru, Shmirakuru, don't care.

[Danny Franks]

Well, I won't miss Moira. I think her existence on the show was already artificially prolonged with the stupid, 'Malcolm's alive and bribed the jury to get her out, and the she runs for mayor' storyline. For me, Moira reached the end of her relevance when her involvement in The Undertaking was revealed. Everything since has just been rehashes of the same storyline. 'Moira keeps dangerous secrets from her family, and gets found out'. This episode even set up another one, with Oliver's bastard child. To me, she's had the grim reaper at her door ever since the end of season 1, although I did think Malcolm would figure into her death somehow.

 

So really, Moira's death just means that we won't see this scenario play out in the finale, with Oliver having to choose between someone worthwhile and Laurel. So that's good news. I really didn't want to see Oliver choose Laurel over Felicity, Sara or Thea. Or anyone else.

 

I think Roy should be the next to be put down, because even if they cure him, he's still a cop killer, and that won't be forgotten. And I'd rather Roy was dead than be some grim!dark angst-machine, tortured over attacking Sin and Thea. Blech.

 

Not sure about the abrupt end to Oliver/Sara. It feels like the writers just said, 'time to break them up' rather than building up to an organic end to the relationship. I don't think we ever really saw them struggle to deal with their issues together or figure out that dating was a problem and that they had different expectations. It just turns out that Sara thinks she likes killing people again, so she's off. Right.

 

Hopefully this will all be the trigger now for Thea learning Oliver's secret (and not hating him for it), which will get one big trust issue out of the way and set up her joining Team Arrow, at least as support staff. I'd love to see some scenes of her with Felicity and Diggle, and to see her coming to terms with who her brother is.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Danny Franks

[ohjoy]

Hopefully this will all be the trigger now for Thea learning Oliver's secret (and not hating him for it), which will get one big trust issue out of the way and set up her joining Team Arrow, at least as support staff. I'd love to see some scenes of her with Felicity and Diggle, and to see her coming to terms with who her brother is.

This is logical, has been clearly set up by the events broadcast on the show, and would move the characters forward in a way that is most organic to all involved. I'm pretty sure the producers want no part of it.

 

I'm concerned that what we're getting instead instead is Thea blaming Oliver for Moira's death and pushing him away, and Oliver outing himself to Laurel so she can officially be the new Team Arrow supporter.

[Danny Franks]

This is logical, has been clearly set up by the events broadcast on the show, and would move the characters forward in a way that is most organic to all involved. I'm pretty sure the producers want no part of it.

 

I'm concerned that what we're getting instead instead is Thea blaming Oliver for Moira's death and pushing him away, and Oliver outing himself to Laurel so she can officially be the new Team Arrow supporter.

Yeah, that's sadly what I'm expecting to happen. This show doesn't favour logic over angsty drama, and Thea blaming Oliver, while Oliver is too tongue-tied to explain himself is their usually worn path.

 

Meanwhile, I care not one tiny bit about Laurel. Her finding out his secret is meaningless to me, her becoming Bland Canary is not something that I want to see.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Danny Franks

[ohjoy]

Meanwhile, I care not one tiny bit about Laurel. Her finding out his secret is meaningless to me, her becoming Bland Canary is not something that I want to see.

ITA -- and thanks for "Bland Canary," because that's absolutely going to be my new name for her until they put to rest this ridiculous notion of her having any superhero material other than her comic book name.

[Zalyn]

Girl chill the fuck out and hang with the Winchesters.

You know that would definitely mean the end of Sara, right? Although it would be funny if she could somehow interact with Cassidy!Ruby...

 

1. It's admittedly a very small point, but, why, exactly, did the mother of Oliver's baby (Connor Hawke, everyone is telling me?) agree to walk away with just two million? It was obvious Moira would be willing to pay a lot, lot more, and we've been told the family is worth at least one billion. Also, Moira, I can't help but think that your whole "I am concerned about my grandchild" deal would have gone over a lot better if you'd made plans to see said grandchild instead of making plans to immediately send the grandchild away.

Because the girl didn't want money.  In fact, she seemed like a decent sort of person overall (which bodes well for Connor(?)).  Also, when a rich, powerful person offers you an ungodly sum of money to go away, it's not wise to try to haggle since they could just as easily hire a hitman or arrange an "accident."

I'm rewatching the ep now, but was there anything to establish that Moira didn't ever go visit?  I disagree that it would have been better for Moira to make/allow Oliver to be a father; while some unexpected parents do grow up and develop character, given that even two years after, Oliver couldn't even be respectful to sisters, I doubt he would have actually matured at all.  Moira, being in the 1%, very likely has seen how irresponsible, spoiled rich boys handle any problems they make - they pay people off and shirk responsibility, to the detriment of those they owe.  She also certainly knows how rampant cheating is, especially among the rich men in the group - it's easy, it's tempting, even when there is a happy marriage.  If Oliver were forced to marry that girl, he would have been even worse because he clearly didn't love (or even like, I surmise) her. That would not have been a good family for the child to have grown up in by any means.

I'm going to miss Moira, because as ruthless as she was, she impressed me with her solution drawn from "mother's logic" or even an ethic of care (see feminist theory) - she ensured that the teen mother and child would live comfortably the rest of their lives and she kept her son from that situation (both to protect him and to protect them from him).  I've seen so many similar stories handled by a patriarch that involved direct violence or harm, so this was a nice change of pace (even if one may disagree with her decision).

Speaking of... The kid would be about six years old now... which makes him potential Slade!Bait.  Could Slade know about Oliver's kid and plan to torture Oliver with him/her?   Slade did mention that one more has to die...

[AudienceofOne]

Bleak. Contrived. Oddly boring. The entire back half of this season culminating in this episode. They've continued to piss me off, pretty well since they killed off Shado entirely to propel this annoying plotline forward.

[shapeshifter]

So, anyone else burst out laughing when Ollie planted multiple arrows in Roy, and Roy's expression was all WTF? No? Probably just because I watched this after my boss tore me a new one yet again for something that I did not do, so, I'm entitled to a little entertainment. Thank you, Arrow.

I have some further thoughts about the implication of why she was leaving Oliver but I'm going to bring that over to the Felicity thread.

Whew! I was so afraid you were going to say the Laurel thread.

I just want Slade Wilson gone. Fuck off, asshole.

I think it would be cool if Mayor Blood killed Slade. I don't know exactly why, but it probably has to do with what I mentioned above.

Yeah, I enjoyed all the violence in this episode a little too much.

[Lantern7]

Blood killing Slade? I can't see that happening. If anybody will kill Slade, it'll probably be Malcolm Merlyn, especially if he's set up to be the Big Bad of S3. And it'll be cheap as hell, because Slade is unbeatable. I can't see Oliver beating Slade right now without a major ass-pull.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Lantern7

[BkWurm1]

I disagree that it would have been better for Moira to make/allow Oliver to be a father; while some unexpected parents do grow up and develop character, given that even two years after, Oliver couldn't even be respectful to sisters, I doubt he would have actually matured at all.

 

Timeline tweak, the pregnancy scare would have been one year before Oliver got on the boat.  (since 5 years on the island and Oliver officially back something over a year. 1+5+1=7)

 

Anyway, yes, Oliver was still a cheating, spoiled, irresponsible frat boy but then, he had no reason to make any changes.  Ok, logic might suggest he take stock of his life and rethink his reckless ways but instead it's like Oliver said, he got to go back to being the luckiest guy around which to me meant he got to go back to his life and not have to make any changes.  The thing is, in that confession, I got the impression that he really wasn't that happy with the life that the luckiest guy in the world was leading or at least he was starting to find it kind of meaningless. 

 

He was sad about the loss of the child.  Even when he said he wasn't ready to be a father he sounded wounded and like he was trying to convince himself of the fact.   I think had Oliver been forced to accept some responsibility for the baby, he could very well have found a new focus in his life.

 

By no means do I suggest he marry the girl.  Was that even being brought up as an option?  All I expected him to do was support the girl (emotionally) during the pregnancy (also help with the medical expenses if needed)  and then be in the child's life.  Child support is a given and since Oliver came with a trust fund, how much of a hardship was that going to be?  Would anyone have really been that scandalized about it in 2007?  Unhappy, embarrassed  sure, but the days of forcing near strangers to get married are long over. 

 

Really the only thing that Oliver was going to have to give up was Laurel, assuming she had enough self respect to leave him once she found out about his cheating, and I don't see a downside to Oliver not dating Laurel.  Instead, Moira decided to make Oliver's life easy even though his big mistake would have been hardly more than a ripple in his life. 

Edited April 25, 2014 by BkWurm1

[RollTheHardSix]

Hmm... hard to say whether I liked or disliked the episode.

 

Some way through it I started to smell something cooking, because Moira and Oliver were getting on a bit too well... her knowing his secret, them being all a-okay.... something bad was bound to happen.

 

The Sara/Oliver interaction was weird. It was the typical "you're too good for me - I don't deserve you - BS". It was annoying when he was doing it, it's annoying when she (or anyone else, for that matter) does it. It's bad fanfic style. In RL "you're too good for me" means "I'm not that into you, but I don't want to admit it and be the bad guy, so I'll pretend to be heroic." I don't want to complain about the show being unrealistic, because it obviously is in general, but that's just so cheesy.

 

I don't care about who does it with who on the show, but this feels cheap. I try to stay away from comments on some sites, but sometimes I do read them. This feels a lot like pandering to a certain fanbase. Don't get me wrong, I like Felicity, possibly more than Laurel or Sara, but I am wary of the direction the show is going. 

 

That said, I think I'm getting paranoid. There wasn't even that much in the air about any kind of hook-ups, but I smell blood in the water.

 

Don't really care about the (possible) kid, but we'll see where that goes. 

 

I'm not sad to see Moira go, but I do feel that it was rushed. Too much shock value there, plus it wasn't even that shocking. Not the best way they could've handled that.

[Carrie Ann]

Timeline tweak, the pregnancy scare would have been one year before Oliver got on the boat.  (since 5 years on the island and Oliver officially back something over a year. 1+5+1=7)

Yeah, I'm sure whenever this love child thing is addressed, we'll figure out the timing a bit more, but the baby was likely born about the same time Oliver got on the Queen's Gambit. He's been home for probably a year and a half now (we've seen two Christmases), and was on the island for five years, and I assume the mother wasn't very far along when this deal was brokered. So even if the mother had a change of heart when the baby was born, she thought Oliver was dead.

 

I'm really unhappy with this development, and I'm skeptical that this is a good move for the show. I just find that there are only so many things you can do with a child character on a show like this; most of them end up being treated as an object to be protected at all costs, which is tiresome. It limits the things the parent characters can do. It pulls focus from interesting characters in favor of a child actor, who is probably not very strong, and therefore not very appealing. Best case scenario: Oliver finds out about the kid, maybe even meets him/her, but he and the child's mother decide to maintain the status quo to keep the kid safe, and they make infrequent appearances thereafter.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[shapeshifter]

Blood killing Slade? I can't see that happening. If anybody will kill Slade, it'll probably be Malcolm Merlyn, especially if he's set up to be the Big Bad of S3. And it'll be cheap as hell, because Slade is unbeatable. I can't see Oliver beating Slade right now without a major ass-pull.

I'd love to see John Barrowman in mortal combat with Slade. To me, they have a more matched physicality than Kevin Alejandro (Blood) would, but I was thinking that it would make Blood's story more complicated in an interesting way, plus, he does still have a mirakuru stash, right?

But now that I think of it, Roy is probably the likeliest one to take down Slade.

I'm guessing they brought the love child reveal in at this point because Moira's death might free the baby mamma to resurface. It might be interesting if she had managed to parlay her 2 mil into more wealth rather than have exhausted it, and she is now going to help the Queen family in a sort of pay it forward/backward gesture of good will.

So I'm gathering from posts above and elsewhere that the child is known as "Conner?" Wasn't that Angel's son's name too? I wish it was King, as in King Queen. Heh.

[Zalyn]

Thanks for the timeline correction (one thing I liked about TWoP was rigorous dates and math put up as references for timelines, and so having good numbers up will be helpful for when the child comes up again).

About whether Oliver would have been expected to marry the mother of his child - perhaps by 2007 social norms he wouldn't have been required to, but I have a feeling that issues of family inheritance would make it very difficult for the Queen family legacy to be passed on smoothly, especially if it were a boy child.  There is still a tendency towards male primogeniture - the eldest son inherits the name and the franchise.  So if the child were a boy and visibly connected to Oliver, that child could probably sue for inheritance of the family estate later on, making it impossible for a "legitimate" heir to claim it.  Heck, even without gender involved, the eldest child arguably has a claim in the style of Esau and Jacob.

It would have been different if Oliver already had been married with an heir and this were a younger "bastard" child.  But Moira, while being calculating, does have a reasonable concern for the future of the Queen family and estate that goes beyond individual emotional virtue. 

[Lantern7]

Shapeshifter . . . in one continuity, a teenaged Oliver Queen wound up having a child named Connor Hawke. You can read about him  here . . . Connor was a casualty of the latest DC Comics "reboot" of continuity.

[BkWurm1]

So I'm gathering from posts above and elsewhere that the child is known as "Conner?" Wasn't that Angel's son's name too? 

 

Connor is a popular name in the genre.  Also in the DC universe we have Connor Kent (aka Superboy aka the closet thing to a Lex Luthor/Superman Love Child they could come up with) **Edited to say oops, I meant closest thing not closet thing, but closet works pretty good too.  ;)

perhaps by 2007 social norms he wouldn't have been required to, but I have a feeling that issues of family inheritance would make it very difficult for the Queen family legacy to be passed on smoothly, especially if it were a boy child.

 

On the other hand, had Oliver actually died, his son would be his only heir.  I get that there could be complications, but had Oliver actually had a relationship with his (lets just say son) he might have developed the kind of relationship where he would have wanted him to be his first born heir.  He might have other kids sure, but there wouldn't be any promise they'd want anything to do with the family business.

 

  I'm just saying that Moira made a lot of assumptions when she did what she did that showcase her poor opinion of Oliver and his character and yet it also showed the parenting style that clearly created douchebag Oliver. 

 

 Now if they had expanded on Robert Queen being ready to "kill" Oliver, maybe threatening to cut him off if he messed up, then Oliver had something to lose other than Laurel (she would have stayed and somehow blamed the child's mother for seducing him).  As it was I felt like Moira acted too quickly without letting Oliver actually try to figure anything out.   Moira was protective of her children and loved them very much but she really wasn't a very good mother.  Oh, she's great when you need something HUGE but terrible at the day to day parenting. 

Edited April 25, 2014 by BkWurm1

[JTMacc99]

Best I can figure is that the show introduced the Oliver's Baby story in this episode because Moira still had contact. With her dead, that would mean that the contact (or possibly ongoing monetary support) goes away, thus giving a reason for mother and child to return. 

 

Or, as mentioned above, Slade already knows and the show needed to tell us about it before he heads off in the direction.

[quarks]

Or possibly they introduced the baby storyline now for purely practical reasons, knowing that Susanna Thompson was about to be kicked off the show and needing to film her while she's still available. 

 

There's also the small issue that the further away they get from pre island time, the harder it will be to make the actors look X years younger, though Amell in the pre-island wig never fails to amuse me, so there's that. 

[BkWurm1]

Best I can figure is that the show introduced the Oliver's Baby story in this episode because Moira still had contact. With her dead, that would mean that the contact (or possibly ongoing monetary support) goes away, thus giving a reason for mother and child to return.

 

I think that as long as Moira was alive the boys mother would hesitate to contact Oliver but more than that I think she would not contact Oliver unless something desperate happens.  Oliver did end his phone call with her saying if there ever is anything he could do.  I took that as the only invitation the girl would need to set up a kind of fail safe for the child for something like if her family wasn't around anymore and she got into an accident and died, I think in a case where its either the boy goes into foster care or Oliver is contacted that she would have set something like that up but I highly doubt we will ever see the mother alive again. 

 

This is kind of off topic but do kids that have money but no relatives get sent into the foster care system?  You never hear of it.  I suppose where there is money there is always SOMEBODY willing to take responsibility. 

 

Ok, I kind of answered my own question but still even if "Connor" could have someone look after him if his mother died, maybe the mother would at that point still prefer it to be Oliver.  Or maybe two million doesn't go as far as it used to.  One way or another,  Oliver's name would have been in the news, both for his death and his return.  It doesn't seem crazy that the mother would set something up in a will. 

[catrox14]

I watched the episode again today.  Good lord. I was sobbing all over again!  And I think it might have actually been worse with knowing how it ends. The scene when she tells Ollie she knows he's the Arrow and how proud she is of him, has even more impact. I think I cried as much watching that scene as the end.  It all holds up on repeat viewing.  Well done, show. You big fat jerks :(

[statsgirl]

Moira said told the pregnant girl to go back to Central City, saying that she had family there.  If she was Oliver's age, she'd still be under 30 now, which would make her parents in their 50s or 60s.  There is probably someone, either her parents or maybe a sibling, who would take Connor if she died.  But in books and movies, when the mother dies she usually leaves a note for the birth father saying "Oh, by the way, I never told you but...."

 

 

Oh, she's great when you need something HUGE but terrible at the day to day parenting.

Yeah.  I remember last season when Oliver had to tell her that Thea required more disciplined parenting.  But at least she can learn -- this week when Thea went all teen angst and said Moira couldn't contaminate Verdant too, Moira reminded her there she had signed a contract.  Grow up, Thea.

 

I'm really going to miss Susanna Thompson.  She brought everyone's game up, especially Stephen Amell.

[bravelittletoaster]

Arrow, I'm going to need you to go to your room and THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE DONE.

At this point, I just want Slade Wilson gone. Fuck off, asshole. You had one fucking job, getting the worst actress on tv right now off our screens, but nooooooo, you just dropped by to have a fucking chat. Mirakuru, Shmirakuru, don't care.

Danny Franks

Apr 24 2014 @ 3:45 pm

Word.  That guy bores the shit out of me.  I was really annoyed when Slade landed in Starling City and infected this storyline, because in the past I've always just watched ESPN during the island flashbacks   Every time he whines that Oliver "killed" Shado I want to tie him up, clothespin his eyelids and force him to rewatch the scene where Oliver really clearly did not kill Shado for days ala A Clockwork Orange.  Fuck you, Slade, and your accent, and your island.  You all bore me and you belong together.

 

Sorry, I might be cranky because I thought Moira Queen was one of the more interesting characters and definitely played by one of the better actors.  I'm never happy when a show removes characters I like leaving me with more time spent with characters I don't.  Slade is like the Blaine Anderson of Arrow, IMO.

[shapeshifter]

Every time he [slade] whines that Oliver "killed" Shado I want to tie him up, clothespin his eyelids and force him to rewatch the scene where Oliver really clearly did not kill Shado

LOL! If the writers don't realize the whole audience feels that way by now, well, they must be smoking something that effects short and long term memory.

To be fair, in this episode, Ollie finally denied that had happened in a fairly loud voice (before he got interrupted). And they did throw the audience a bone in showing that Slade is getting his info from an imaginary friend.

Edited April 27, 2014 by shapeshifter

[ChelseaNH]

they did throw the audience a bone in showing that Slade is getting his info from an imaginary friend

 

Roy has a similar imaginary friend.  So mirakuru induces schizophrenia?

Edited April 28, 2014 by ChelseaNH

[statsgirl]

Watching this episode now, knowing what happens in the next three, really makes a difference as to how I see it.  Or maybe it's just that I've recovered from the lack of Team Arrow since ep 2x12.

 

The writers of this episode, Wendy Mericle and Beth Schwartz, really had fun with the one-lines and subtle and not-so-subtle points.  But it still doesn't make up for the mess that ToD was.

 

Laurel: I promised Sara I'd help her with her trigonometry
Oliver:  I don't know what that is
Laurel:   You are  very cute.

 

Seriously Laurel?  He says he doesn't know what trigonometry is, something he should have learned about in grade 5, and you think he's cute?   This relationshp not ony has no chemistry, it's toxic to both parties.  And it's nice to see Moira knows Oliver is upset even if Laurel doesn't.

 

Oliver: Dad's going to kill me [about the pregnancy]  He really is as immature as a child, no sense of what he really did.  Maybe because Moira and Robert have always cleaned up his messes?

 

Oliver denying that it's Laurel who is pregnant but someone else – Moira's expression is wonderful, like father, like son.  Great work from Susanna Thompson all through this episode, past and present.  "You're never without me" Moira says to Oliver in the past.  Stephen Amell always gives a lot of credit to Susanna Thompson for teaching him a lot about acting, no wonder that scene blurs the lines for him.

 

Raisa mention!  Moira to Sandra: "Can I have Raisa get you a drink?"

Thea is so obsessed by people lying to her.  Over and over, it comes out.  Well done, show.

 

Love the fact that random strangers on the street come to save Sin because they think Roy is abusing her.  There is still good in the Glades

 

Sin "It made him strong, like comic book strong."    nudge, nudge, wink, wink

 

Pre-island Oliver: "One mistake and it seems my entire life is over."  Baby, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

To kill Slade or not to kill Slade – Oliver's dilemma this episode.  Sara says he would kill Slade if he were there in front of him, Oliver is silent. Later he shouts at Slade that he's is going to kill him.

 

Sara walks out to kill Roy, leaving him with Felicity. Class trope but I didn't know then that Sara was going to break up with Oliver

and Felicity would be The One at the end of the season

 

Felicity had great expressions when Oliver grabs the bottle of lidocaine, puts it all in the syringe and then injects himself, bash.  That's why she's taken over the position of leading lady, because EBR works so hard at making her character good even when she doesn't have dialogue or holds centre stage.

 

"Full moon tonight, really brings out the whack jobs."  In college, I had a part-time job in an ER and we were all convinced that the full moon brings out the loonies (moon, lunatic, there's a reason for that).  It turns out that it was studied in a paper called "The Moon Was Full And Nothing Happened", but I never did believe that research.

 

Finally, no Laurel in the present.  I didn't miss her at all.

 

Roy has a similar imaginary friend.  So mirakuru induces schizophrenia?

Hallucinations for sure.  (A number of conditions can cause hallucinations, and as can various drugs.)

Edited September 3, 2014 by statsgirl

[Actionmage]

He says he doesn't know what trigonometry is, something he should have learned about in grade 5, and you think he's cute?

Sing it, sister! Still, it's moments like that that I feel badly for Katie Cassidy. Having to say those lines (the jaw-droppingly tone-deaf ones)  with the ephemeral promise of better coming for you and your character.

 

Raisa mention! Maybe we can have her when we get to how Ollie knows Russian and is/was a captain of the Bratva? ::crosses fingers::

 

Love the fact that random strangers on the street come to save Sin because they think Roy is abusing her.  There is still good in the Glades

I thought I heard the first guy call Sin by name, but he could've been the only one of the three that knew her. Still, yes, just because you live in The Glades doesn't mean you let wrongs just happen. (Sin did try to get the guys to back off/cool down, so I'm not sure if the guys standing up for Sin was helpful, especially since they got beatdown and Sin ended up with a shiner for all her trouble.)

 

Later he shouts at Slade that he's is going to kill him.  To be fair, Ollie was reacting to an extreme provocation.

 

Some of my thoughts:

*As far as fashion in the episode, I loved Felicity's dress in the open and Moira's suit when she told Sebastian that she was going to concede. (It was the neckline of the top/jacket that reeled me in.)

*Hey, Mark(Nicholas Lea)? STFU. Moira has juggled family and career and done so just fine before you and your wacky political machine got behind the woman and pushed.

*If we can have more Thea/Dig scenes, I'll be really good, TV Santa!

*Hey, Sara? If you can capture Roy and get him to a safe spot to try and cure him? Why not do that? Ya'll can always use bullets if the cure won't work. (I smell a Contrivance/Plot Fairy dancing around this one...)

*THE Queen, Moira, and two little words: "I know." When Oliver realized what she meant, it was like he lost 10 years off his face. Or something like that. Amell's abs drew me in, but it's everything else he does that keeps me a fan of him and the show.

*Sin's sadface is very sad-making.

*Roy was able to remember The Tower and Verdant. What else would he remember under the Mirakuru? Also: the arrow Roy used to kill one cop and seriously injure the other cop was left at the scene. What are the potential complications/implications of that little fact? ( or was it never mentioned again? Or was the Arrow blamed for the cops' death/injuries? Starling City loves to turn on a dime when it comes to it's costumed vigilantes.)

*Ambivalent!Oliver when he found out the baby was "lost". Again with the eyes, Amell! 

*All the feels after the carwreck. Even the title card was colorless. I know why, but damn it, Susanna Thompson deserves an acting nomination for the whole season, if not two seasons of great acting!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i

[tv echo]

220 (Seeing Red) – No Oliver Queen voiceover intro.

220 (Seeing Red) – Roy recovers consciousness but is crazed:
Felicity: "No change?" 
Diggle: "Nope. So much blood mixed in with so much Mirakuru, I don't know if it's good or bad. We could really use that cure."
Felicity: "I talked to Caitlin this morning. They're working on it."
Diggle: "No mention on Isabel Rochev's death?" 
Felicity: "Not a thing. I wasn't expecting a glowing obituary, but she's a Fortune 500 CEO that's been missing for a week now. You'd think she'd have some column inches... (sudden bang noise, she gasps) Does the fact that him lying there freaks me out a little make me a bad person?" 
Diggle: "Felicity, I don't think there's a force on earth that can make you a bad person. But I am starving. Dinner?"
Felicity: "Yeah. No Big Belly Burger, though. It's giving me a big belly."
Diggle: "Sushi, then." (Leaves)
Felicity (to Roy): "How can you be unconscious and freak me out at the same… (Roy's unconscious body is missing) time. Roy?"
(Roy is standing there with a crazed look on his face.)
Diggle (entering): "I forgot my phone."
(Roy knocks over the table, knocks down Diggle, and barrels out of the Arrowcave.)
Felicity: "Dig!"
Diggle (to Felicity): "You okay?"
Felicity: "Yeah."
Diggle: "Roy!" (Leaves)

220 (Seeing Red) – Oliver and Sara's post-coital talk of moving in together is interrupted by phone calls from Felicity, and they rush to the Arrowcave:
Sara: “You think Roy's okay?”
Oliver: “Please tell me that you're not thinking about Roy right now. We're finally alone, in bed, in a very nice hotel room.”
Sara: “A hotel room that you couldn't afford.”
Oliver: “I have something of a history with the manager.”
Sara: “Mmm. I can only imagine.”
Oliver: “I think I trashed this specific room once. But favors run out. We should think about getting a more permanent place.”
Sara: “We?”
Oliver: “Well, you're probably getting tired of staying with Laurel, and we can't sleep in the Foundry now that Roy's there, so –“
Sara: “But, I mean, ‘we,’ now you're asking me to move in with you?”
(Oliver pauses and then kisses her.)
Sara: “Hey, your phone's ringing.”
Oliver: “I know.”
Sara: “Okay, both our phones are ringing, that's never good.” 
(Both phones show that it’s Felicity calling them.)
*  *  *
(Oliver and Sara enter the Foundry.)
Oliver: "What happened?"
Diggle: "I don't know. One minute he's comatose, the next, he's flipping over computer equipment. He was a lot more out of control than Slade was at your house."
Felicity: "He looked like Roy, but he wasn't Roy."
Sara: "Where do you think he's headed?" 
Oliver: "I don't know, but we have to find him."

220 (Seeing Red) - In a flashback scene to seven years ago, Laurel tells Oliver he's really cute when he's mopey; then Oliver confides in his mother that he got another girl pregnant:
(Laurel is sitting on a sofa, with Oliver's head in her lap, in the living room of the Queen mansion.)
Laurel: "You're really cute when you're mopey."
Oliver: "I'm not mopey."
Laurel: "Mopey's your default, Ollie. It's part of your smoldering charm."
Oliver: "I do have smoldering charm."
Laurel: "Got your more than usual mopey. Is everything alright?"
Oliver (sitting up): "It's fine." (Kisses her)
Laurel: "Ollie?"
Oliver: "Tommy had me out later than maybe I should've been and... (Laughs) I'm wiped."
Laurel: "Well, you want me to go? I promised Sara I'd help her with her trigonometry."
Oliver: "I don't know what that is."
Laurel: "You are very cute. (Kisses him) Get some sleep."
Oliver: "Bye."
(Laurel leaves just as Moira enters the room.)
Laurel: “Good night, Mrs. Queen.”
Moira: “Good night. You didn't go out with Tommy last night.”
Oliver: “Hey. Thanks for eavesdropping on my entire conversation, Mom.”
Moira: “Sweetheart, something's bothering you, tell me what it is.”
Oliver: “Dad's going to kill me.”
Moira: “Your father loves you. I love you.”
Oliver: “I screwed up. It's bad.”
Moira: “What happened?”
Oliver: “I got a girl pregnant.”
Moira: “Laurel's pregnant?”
Oliver: “No. Not Laurel.”

220 (Seeing Red) – Team Arrow and Sara attempt to track down a Mirakuru-crazed Roy:
Sara (over comms): "This is ridiculous. We can't just ride around all night hoping to lay eyes on him."
Oliver (over comms): "Diggle."
Diggle (over comms): "His place is clean. I don't think he's been back here."
Felicity (over comms): "Call just went out for an ambulance at 14th and Hobart. There's four men seriously assaulted… by someone wearing a red hoodie."
Oliver: "What happened?"
Unidentified Male: "Guy jumped us. Came out of nowhere. The dude is 'roided out or something. Crazy like."
*  *  *
Felicity: "Verdant, 14th and Hobart, and the bar Sin spotted him at. He looks to be moving east."
Sara: "What's east?"
Oliver: "Queen Mansion." 
Felicity: "If he still remembers where Thea lives - well, used to live, but Roy doesn't know that - there might be something in Roy still left in there."
Sara: "Or it's just a coincidence that he's moving east." 
Oliver: "I know that Sin's involved, but don't let that cloud your judgment."
Sara: "Well, don't let the fact that this used to be Roy cloud yours."

220 (Seeing Red) – Oliver and Sara argue over how to handle Roy, and Felicity attempts to reassure Oliver:
Sara: "These aren't going to fix your knee."
Oliver: "They'll help it heal faster."
Sara: "And until then?"
Oliver: "Where are we with facial recognition?"
Felicity: "Traffic cams can't get a clear shot. Now I see why you wear that hood."
Oliver: "Felicity, we need to find Roy before the police do." 
Sara: "Because they'll kill him and we won't?" 
Oliver: "S.T.A.R. Labs is working on a cure."
Sara: "Which they may never come up with. And even if they do, I mean, how many people are we going to let Roy kill in the meantime?" 
Oliver: "You know, you wanted to kill Helena, too. You found another way."
Sara: "That was different, and you know it. Roy has the Mirakuru in him, just like Slade. And if you had a clear shot of Slade right now, you would take it."
Oliver: "Roy isn't Slade!"
Sara: "Roy isn't Roy. He's not himself anymore, he's too far gone."
Oliver: "I don't believe that."
Sara: "Do you even hear yourself right now, Ollie? This is the exact conversation that we had five years ago, except we were freezing on Lian Yu." (Goes to get her gun.)
Oliver: "What are you doing?" 
Sara: "What needs to be done. The Mirakuru won't do anything against a head shot."
Oliver: "Sara!"
Sara: "Your mother's rally starts in a half an hour. I'd start getting dressed if I were you." (Leaves)
Oliver (exhaling): "She reminds me so much of me after I came home. When it just seemed - seemed impossible to believe in anything even resembling hope." 
Felicity: "But you did. You did. Eventually. Sara will, too."

220 (Seeing Red) – Moira tells Oliver that she knows his secret:
Moira: “Oliver. What happened?”
Oliver: “It's a motorcycle accident, it was stupid.”
Moira: “Yes, this would be the second accident in as many weeks, if my math is correct.”
Oliver: “Mark says you're dropping out of the race.”
Moira: “The truth is, I should have done it weeks ago, after Thea was abducted. My complete focus needs to be on repairing our relationship.”
Oliver: “Mom, what's happening with Thea right now isn't because you weren't spending enough time with her.”
Moira: “Well, maybe not. I have to do something and I'm not sure what else to do.”
Oliver: “Thea hates you right now because of the things that you've done. Terrible things. So let her see you do something good. As mayor. Mom, I know a little something about… sacrificing the people closest to me for the good of this city. It's what you need to do now.”
Moira: “I know.”
Oliver: “Good.”
Moira: “Oliver, I know. I know. I've known since last year, I suppose. The night of the Undertaking, everything became so clear. It was pretty much the night I stopped sleeping.”
Oliver: “Before you say anything else –“
Moira: “There's nothing else to say. Nothing I need to say. Except I could not be more proud.” (Takes his hands in hers)

220 (Seeing Red) – In a flashback scene, Moira meets with the girl that Oliver got pregnant (who we now know was Samantha Clayton) and offers her money to lie to Oliver and move away from Starling City:
Girl: “Where's Oliver?”
Moira: “Ah, he's running an errand for me. I thought it would give us a chance to talk.”
Girl: “With all due respect, um, Mrs. Queen, what's happening, it's between me and your son.”
Moira: “Yes.”
Girl: “What is that?”
Moira: “Oh, I had one of our investigators write up a dossier on you. I'm sorry, but it's a necessary precaution against a fraudulent claim of paternity.”
Girl: “Well, the baby is Oliver's.”
Moira: “Oh, of that I have no doubt. Our investigators were quite thorough. But you can imagine how many people my family attracts who are looking for handouts.”
Girl: “Well, I'm not looking for money.”
Moira: “Of course not.”
Girl: “I told you, I don't want money.”
Moira: “And I'm telling you that this is my first grandchild. And I want to make certain that he or she has a bright future. Please. This is a million dollars. I want to make certain that my son has a bright future as well. That money is yours once you tell Oliver that you've lost the baby.”
Girl: “What?!”
Moira: “And another million when you return to Central City, never to speak to him again. Can I offer you some advice, one mother to another? When it comes to your children, there is no action that is inconceivable. There is no decision that is impossible. You do what you must to provide the life that they need. And I think that $2 million is sufficient to provide the life that both our children need.”

220 (Seeing Red) – Felicity helps Oliver (who's in a business suit) after he comes hopping down the stairs into the Arrowcave:
Felicity (groaning): "Oh, God, you're heavy. Is this really all muscle?"
Oliver (clears his throat): "How many of those venom arrows do we have?" Felicity: "About 20."
Oliver: "I need all of them."
Felicity: "Okay. Are you sure that's a good idea? Can you even get into those leather pants with that knee?"
Oliver: "Lidocaine. Now."
Felicity: "Let's see, the bottle says the proper dose is -" 
(Oliver takes needle out of her hand.)
Oliver: "Is all of it." 
Felicity: "I don't think that's a good... (Oliver jabs needle into his knee and groans, Felicity makes gagging sound)

220 (Seeing Red) – Sara breaks up with Oliver and tells him that he deserves someone who can harness the light that’s still inside him:
Felicity: "Ah, Tibetan pit viper venom. A constant dose of that can't be good for you. Right?"
Diggle: "It'll keep him sedated like it did Slade." 
Felicity: "Until when? And what happens when we run out? It's not like you can buy this stuff over the counter. Unless you're in Tibet. Then... maybe."
Oliver: "We'll take care of him. I'm not ready to give up on Roy." 
Felicity: "Anyone else crave dim sum after fisticuffs? No? Okay. Dumplings for one, then." (Leaves)
Sara: "I would have killed him. I was ready to. He'd be dead right now if you wouldn't have stopped me."
Oliver: "But he's not. That's all that matters."
Sara: "That's not true. I wanted to kill Roy. Because that's what I do. That's who I am. I spent six years in the darkness. And I looked into the eyes of the devil, and I gave him my soul."
Oliver: "Let me help you get it back."
Sara: "No, you deserve someone better. Someone who can harness that light that's still inside of you. But I'm not that person. And I never will be."
Oliver: "Sara - don't."
Sara: "I'm sorry. I just care about you too much to be with you." (Leaves)

220 (Seeing Red) – Slade Wilson kills Moira:
(When Oliver regains consciousness, he, Moira, and Thea are all bound.)
Moira: “Oliver! Oliver, Oliver.”
Slade: “I understand the last time, you were offered this choice.”
Oliver: “Slade.”
Thea (crying): “What’s happening?”
Slade: “I often wondered how you looked, when he pointed the gun at Shado and took her from me.”
Oliver: “You psychopath! Shado – Shado wasn’t yours!”
Slade: “No. She was yours. Though you chose another woman over her.”
Oliver: “That’s not what happened!”
Slade: “It is what happened! It is! She told me.” (Pointing to empty air)
Oliver: “What do you mean ‘she’? There’s nobody there!”
Moira: “Slade. You were on the island with Oliver.”
Slade: “I thought I had known true despair… until I met your son. I trusted him to make the right choice.”
Oliver: “Let me make the right choice now. Kill me.”
Moira: “No!”
Thea: “Nooo.”
Oliver: “Kill me, please!”
Moira: “Noooo.”
Slade: “I am killing you, Oliver. Only more slowly than you would like.” (Cocks his gun)
Oliver: “Don’t.”
Slade: “Choose.” (Points gun at Moira)
Oliver: “Don’t you – please…“
Slade: “Choose. (Points gun at Thea) Choose.”
Moira: “Oliver!”
Oliver: “I swear to God, I am going to kill you!”
Slade: “Choooose!”
Oliver: “No! No!”
Moira (getting to her feet): “No.”
Oliver: “Mom? Mom, what are you doing?”
Moira: “There’s only one way this night can end. We both know that, don’t we, Mr. Wilson?”
Oliver: “Mom… please don’t!”
Moira: "Both my children will live."
Thea (crying): "Mom! What are you doing? Mom!"
Moira: "Thea, I love you. Close your eyes, baby."
(Slade points gun at Moira.)
Oliver: "No!"
Slade: "You possess true courage. (Puts away gun) I am truly sorry... you did not pass that on to your son." (Pulls out sword)
(Slade stabs Moira with the sword.)
Thea: “Nooo!”
(Oliver falls over. Moira falls to the ground dead.)
Slade: “There is still one person who has to die before this can end.”
Oliver (tearfully): “No.”

220 (Seeing Red) – In flashback scene, Oliver is told by the girl he got pregnant that she lost the baby and was moving to Central City:
Moira: “Who was that?”
Oliver: “That was, um - she lost the baby.”
Moira: “Oh.”
Oliver: “She said she's sad about it, and she's going to go back to school in Central City. Apparently she has family there.”
Moira: “Well, I'm sure this has been very traumatic for her. But it sounds for the best. Hmm?”
Oliver: “Sure.”
Moira: “You okay?”
Oliver: “Yeah. Yes. I continue to be the luckiest guy on the planet. What - what would I have done if she - I'm not ready to be a dad.”
Moira: “No. But someday. It's my fondest hope for you.”
Oliver: “I'm glad I told you. I don't think that I could have gotten through something like this without you.”
Moira: “You're never without me. My beautiful boy.”

Edited May 11, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Yesterday MG tweeted two script pages for Moira's death scene in this episode, which I've added to my transcriptions post above.