S07.E08: Hearts Still Beating

[Demig]

On 2016-12-12 at 9:04 PM, ganesh said:

I can get Spencer's point. But he's talking years? Come on. I get that he's pissed at Rick, but ASZ basically had their heads in the sand from what I watched. 

 

On another note, even in death Spencer is a coward.  He waited until Negan left to turn.  Chicken-shit!

[Bishop]

The ending was incredibly satisfying.  I did not hate on this season the way many did, although I agree some episodes dragged and the writers seemed to be repeating the same things over and over again.  We know that Morgan and Carol are now pacifists, and so we don't need to devote tremendous amounts of time to hearing them repeat that fact.  We know Negan is an ass and a bully, and so we don't need to keep seeing that over and over again.  That all being said, I think it was important to show all the characters in ONE episode to gear up for the next half of the season.

I don't get the hate for Spencer.  He was not an evil guy.  Like it or not, his entire family was alive before Rick showed up, and then were all dead once he arrived.  I can understand his anger.  Also, I don't think Spencer ever wanted Rick dead.  He just wanted Rick to not be the leader, and yes, Spencer was trying to ingratiate himself to Negan.  How is that different than what our politicians do?  And his mother WAS a politician.  So I get what he was trying to do.  Was he a momma's boy?  Yeah, pretty much, but I don't feel he deserved to die.  The truth is that Spencer was sheltered a lot from what was going on.  Maybe if he had seen how Negan murdered Glen and Abraham and had been through what Rick and the others had been through, he would understand better.  I mean Father Gabriel was an ass too, remember?  Time and experience changed him.  Now I love him.  I'm just saying.

I read that some felt that Spencer and Olivia's deaths finally got Rick to act against the Saviors and why didn't he feel that way when Abe and Glen died?  I didn't see it that way at all.  Rick and Team Grimes were emotionally eviscerated when Abe and Glen were murdered, and when Daryl tried to protect Rosalita and saw Glen killed for it, they were afraid (and outnumbered) to make Negan angry.  They had too much family to lose.  So Rick succumbed to Negan's wishes in the hopes that if he did what Negan asked in terms of scavenging for him, Negan would leave his people alone.  Yeah, he would humiliate Rick often, but Rick could handle that if his people were safe.  However, in last night's episode, Rick realized that Negan was going to show up whenever he wanted, kill whenever he wanted, and be his usual terrorizing self when he saw fit.  Watching the joy on the Savior's faces as they nearly beat Aaron to death while Rick was forced to watch helplessly, and then seeing the deaths of Spencer and Olivia, along with the growing desire of the people he loved to want to seek revenge got Rick to realize that nothing was going to really appease Negan and his Saviors.  There was no truce, no peace between their communities, and Negan and his Saviors were going to keep coming and killing and beating whenever they felt like it.  It was a cumulative effect for Rick.  So by the time Michonne came to him to try once more to get him to fight, he had seen enough.  He was ready.  That was a great scene between those two, and you could see the joy on Michonne's face when Rick told her he was with her - that they had to fight.

Daryl's escape from the Sanctuary was a long time coming, but I appreciate that the writers had him there the first half of the season because it made his escape more rewarding.  I believe the room he went into for clothes and peanut butter was actually Dwight's room.  I say this because when Daryl saw those carved figurines on the table, I think he realized it was Dwight's room.  That's why he tossed the table in anger.  Dwight had carved figures with him when Daryl and him first crossed paths.  I have to say I was surprised to see how brutal Daryl was with Fat Joey, but I can't say I blame him.  Fat Joey had no problem keeping Daryl (and I'm sure many others) hostage, torturing them, and he had no problem luring Daryl out of his cell to elicit a beatdown on him with Negan smiling.  Throw in that Fat Joey was also a part of Glen and Abraham's executions, and Daryl wasn't going to let that slide.  Daryl has been unable to fight back since he was kidnapped and tortured and made to be a slave for Negan, and so all that rage, anger, pain, and grief had to go somewhere.  Sorry Fat Joey.  

The reunion scene at the Hilltop was the elixir I needed.  It had everything I wanted in the finale.  Seeing Maggie react with joy at whoever was at the gate had me going, but when those doors opened, and you can see Rick, Michonne, Carl, and Sasha standing there, I was thrilled.  Rick and Maggie embraced with Rick admitting that it was time to fight, but of course the cherry on the top was seeing Daryl there.  I loved that Rick ran over to him, and both of them paused, but when Daryl started to break at FINALLY being reunited with his family again, Rick broke too.  I forget that Daryl hasn't been with this family for eight episodes.  He saw Rick and them at Alexandria but couldn't speak or interact with them.  The last time Daryl was with Team Grimes was the moment Glen and Abraham were murdered.  So for him, this was huge.  I loved the hug and the bromance with Daryl and Rick, and of course, Daryl handing Rick back the Python.  That moment seemed to be the final charge for Rick, like being knighted.  My only regret in the final scenes was that we never got to see Maggie's initial reaction to seeing Daryl.  I know Daryl blames himself, but clearly Maggie does not.  She was smiling when Rick saw Daryl.  I just wish the audience had been allowed to witness that first meeting.

I can't wait for February.  Game on.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Bishop

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, Timetoread said:

Negan knows that Rick is a threat - it's why he is so mean to him.

It's why he didn't kill him. If he had killed him - the "leader" - he knew it would make Rick a martyr and make his followers draw closer and be more determined. By letting him live, but degrading and "breaking" him the way he did, it demoralizes and confuses his followers. Quite a brilliant and time-tested strategy.

 

1 hour ago, Demig said:

On another note, even in death Spencer is a coward.  He waited until Negan left to turn.  Chicken-shit!

Haha!

 

1 hour ago, Bishop said:

 I believe the room he went into for clothes and peanut butter was actually Dwight's room.  I say this because when Daryl saw those carved figurines on the table, I think he realized it was Dwight's room.  That's why he tossed the table in anger.  Dwight had carved figures with him when Daryl and him first crossed paths.

Thanks. That carvings went right over my head. I am looking forward to seeing Daryl kill Dwight. I hope he lets him turn.

[ByTor]

On 12/13/2016 at 4:17 PM, ghoulina said:

I didn't think it was about him WANTING Rick dead, but how he went about it. Like HE (Spencer) could manipulate Negan. It was insulting. 

Yeah, that's why I said him wanting Rick dead and being a sneaky rat about it. I don't think it had anything to do with him manipulating Negan, I think it's more about Spencer being a traitor.  I liked Spencer, and I'm sorry my part of my eye candy will be gone (I still have Jesus though!!!), but I understood Negan killing him.  If Spencer went and did this to Rick, what's to stop him from turning around & doing the same thing to Negan?  IMO chances are pretty good he would.

[Dobian]

Ratings for the episode were 10.58 million, up just a fraction from 10.48 million the week before, which were up just a fraction from 10.40 million the week before when the numbers bottomed out.  The midseason finale is supposed to be a high point so I don't see the second half starting with more than 10 million.

[AngelaHunter]

4 minutes ago, ByTor said:

 If Spencer went and did this to Rick, what's to stop him from turning around & doing the same thing to Negan?

Exactly. No one wants a back-stabbing, sneaky snitch on his team - a snitch who would importune the murder of someone with all those eavesdroppers standing in the street and hearing every word.

I loved how Spencer was all puffed up and full of himself when he thought he'd found The Answer, even though I understand perfectly his resentment towards Rick.

Sorry, but I can't help but note that the sponsors for this show thought it was just peachy to see a human being's stomach sliced open and his guts spilling on the ground, but recoil in horror - positively pass out on their fainting couches - at Negan saying the word - a word -  "Fuck." I guess it's kind of funny, really, the bizarre moral standards to which they adhere.

[Miles]

On 12.12.2016 at 9:29 PM, BloatedGuppy said:

Yes but these people apparently elected GREGORY to be leader, remember.

If Maggie hadn't come along they probably would have handed leadership to an exciting looking dog, or an interestingly shaped cloud.

I don't get why people hate Gregory other than that the writers tell us we should. Sorry, but for me to hate a character they have to show, not tell. What has Gregory actually done apart from acting kinda smug? He wanted the pregnant lady, who was perfectly able to run around, to go home, because otherwise it would put his people in an enormous amount of danger. What a monster! /s

Or was his crime that he wouldn't give his apple to a woman (who acts just as smug as him) just because she happens to be pregnant? It's not like he's letting her starve.

The people on the hilltop live in peace and quiet with only minimal tributes to the saviors, while camp dinnerbell had a bunch of their people killed and most of their stuff stolen. I think Gregory is doing a far better job than Rick.

 

7 hours ago, Timetoread said:

I liked this episode but I was pissed because everything I said would happen when people went off half cocked, happened.  Carl's visit to Negan didn't do anything but bring Negan to Alexandria.  Rosita got somebody killed and Eugene kidnapped.  Michonne basically didn't do shit, but find out what she should have already known - there's too many of them.  It's basic logic.  If the armory they took was an OUTPOST then that was only a fraction of the whole population.  If you kill 50 men and 60 more show up to keep fucking with you, then there are too many of them.  If Daryl, who survived the Gov and Terminus and thus has a bit of practice with recon, has not made a power move and telegraphed "We got this!", then there are probably too many of them.  If you know that there is a network of towns (Jesus informed you of this) and Negan is shaking them ALL down.  Then...and I will say this slowly so as to be understood...THERE. ARE. TOO. FUCKING. MANY. OF. THEM.   I don't get why the very smart people of our group - who were held captive by about 200 men and saw who Negan was - can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that they might need to come up with a plan, rather than just walk in with piss and vinegar and 6 shooter. 

To be fair here, if they would just take out Negan, there would probably be so much infighting that the rest of the saviors wouldn't be a problem. And they had ample opportunity to do so, since Negan exposes himself all the time. But alas he has plot armor (till the season finale). Still, the characters can't really know that.

On 12.12.2016 at 7:25 AM, BloatedGuppy said:

TERRIBLE WRITING SERIOUSLY.

I whole heartedly agree. Also with the rest of your post, but it would be a little bit long to quote.

On 12.12.2016 at 8:32 AM, J----av said:

Nope. Simon just takes over and not much changes.

This whole thing is built around a cult of personality (we are all Negan). Once Negan is gone the whole thing collapses. We have seen that in history quite a few times.

Simon certainly couldn't hold that group together. I don't think we've seen anybody who could yet.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Miles

[ganesh]

Quote

To be fair here, if they would just take out Negan, there would probably be so much infighting that the rest of the saviors wouldn't be a problem. 

I think there's several possibilities, and I wish the characters had a shred of strategic thinking because this half season could have been way more gripping.

Kill Negan: The whole thing collapses; unlikely. Simon takes over; possibly, then nothing changes. Or, possibly indiscriminate killing ends. Or not. So, overall it's a wash. They all kill everyone or mostly everyone in revenge for killing Negan; unlikely because that means more for them. There's infighting for a new "Negan;" possibly, the bullies think they can have the harem and more of a piece of the pie.

Do nothing: people die on Negan's stupid whims because he was a fat kid who got picked on in junior high. I suppose, do nothing and try to sabotage too, but Negan would just kill everyone until someone talked. 

I'm not going to write an essay, but I think I could easily make a case that Simon taking over or infighting is equal risk. The drama is that is this a risk they're willing to take? The problem is that Negan wasn't created as the ultimate adversary that is going to take all the skills and cunning that CDB can muster to defeat him. He's just some sorry jack ass who TPTBs think is cool for some reason and expect us to forgo a ton of sense for the show to progress. 

I think the second part of this front end could have addressed this. 

I get that sitting around talking isn't so interesting on the show, but they already showed them talking about what to do about the pit of zombies, so it could work out interesting. 

[Miles]

32 minutes ago, ganesh said:

The whole thing collapses; unlikely.

I think it's rather likely. We have seen multiple times that a lot of people aren't there because they like it, but because they think they have no choice, most recently with Red, who basically asked Michone to shoot her. They are all Negan, they aren't all Simon. You can't just transfere that fear, intimidation and the resulting devotion to somebody else, especially with such a large group. It would splinter into smaller groups with their own leaders. Maybe Simon could hold on to the largest amount of people, but that would still be a fraction of what it is today. Maybe with time he could reconsolidate, but that would take weeks to months, giving the Alexandrians more than enough time to act.

I would rate the probability of this happening at more than 95% (in reality, there is no accounting for what the writers would decide). But even if the unlikely did happen and Simon did just take over for Negan, it would probably be a wash at worst. As long as they can plausibly deny that they killed Negan, Simon is not going to come after them, for getting him a promotion.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Miles

[diebartdie]

It occurs to me if people keep taking pot shots at Negan he might institute a sort of "Centauri protocol" meaning if one savior dies, 20 non-saviors die. If anyone takes a shot at Negan, Negan machine guns 50 rando's standing in a small room. Of curse the Centauri were way more brutal than that, their ratio was 1 Centauri death = 500 Narns were slaughtered.

Eventually Im going to develop my own grand unifying theory tying together all my favorite scifi/fantasy shows, movies and books.

[ganesh]

21 minutes ago, Miles said:

They are all Negan, they aren't all Simon. You can't just transfere that fear, intimidation and the resulting devotion to somebody else, especially with such a large group.

"Infighting" is far more likely than total collapse because they won't want to give up the sweet position of having the others bring them things. That could lead to collapse, but I would say infighting is a necessary and sufficient condition in order to lead to collapse.  

I'm just talking within the context of an immediate consequence of killing Negan, not the longer term ripples. Anyway, the whole point is that a lot more could have been done in this half season to make it more compelling. 

[Happy Harpy]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

The character is a horrible joke and it is even worse, because everyone is supposed to be terrified of him.  Even baby Judith did not look impressed.

To be fair, nothing seems to impress Little Ass Kicker!

[AngelaHunter]

55 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

It occurs to me if people keep taking pot shots at Negan he might institute a sort of "Centauri protocol" meaning if one savior dies, 20 non-saviors die. If anyone takes a shot at Negan, Negan machine guns 50 rando's standing in a small room.

Lets hope Negan isn't a history buff. At one time during WWII, it was ordered that 100 civilians die for every German soldier killed.

 

2 hours ago, Miles said:

Once Negan is gone the whole thing collapses

 Probably, since I don't recall seeing anyone in his gang who isn't portrayed as a pea-brained, moronic brute and bully.

[scrb]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

"Infighting" is far more likely than total collapse because they won't want to give up the sweet position of having the others bring them things. That could lead to collapse, but I would say infighting is a necessary and sufficient condition in order to lead to collapse.  

I'm just talking within the context of an immediate consequence of killing Negan, not the longer term ripples. Anyway, the whole point is that a lot more could have been done in this half season to make it more compelling. 

There's a Spoilers and Speculation thread about what would happen if Negan was taken out.

Yeah the show has NOT established some right-hand man or line of succession really.  Would these sociopaths among the Saviors just fall into line for the next guy or try to take as much of the spoils for themselves?

I read the wikis about what happens in the comics and if the show follows the path, it's probably going to annoy a lot of viewers.

[ShadowSixx]

What makes Rosita even more stupid is she must have spaced out while in the line up when she first met Negan. Did she not see the result of what happened to Glenn as a result of Daryl's stupidity? Negan didn't kill Daryl he killed Glenn. She had to know that even if she killed Negan that she would be shot dead and possibly everyone else in ASZ would be killed as well. Everyone else in ASZ don't have guns so they wouldn't be able to defend themselves.

I just don't know who wins the "Dumbest Fuck Award" Rosita for her stupidity in the mid-season finale or Daryl in the seaon premiere. Both doing stupid shit that resulted in people dying that didn't need to die. Wasn't for them Glenn & Olivia would still be alive. I guess we still have to give it to Daryl because a more significant character was killed as a result of his actions.

[ByTor]

I guess I'll never understand Daryl being blamed for Glen.  How was he supposed to know Negan's rule was "you do something stupid I won't kill you, I'll kill someone else"?  All he knew was that Abe was killed in retaliation for them killing Negan's men.

[diebartdie]

4 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

What makes Rosita even more stupid is she must have spaced out while in the line up when she first met Negan. Did she not see the result of what happened to Glenn as a result of Daryl's stupidity? Negan didn't kill Daryl he killed Glenn. She had to know that even if she killed Negan that she would be shot dead and possibly everyone else in ASZ would be killed as well.

Not only was she in the line up and saw right up close and personal how this dynamic plays out with Negan, even Eugene explicitly reminded her of this exact thing when she was badgering him for that stupid bullet.

[Dobian]

5 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

What makes Rosita even more stupid is she must have spaced out while in the line up when she first met Negan. Did she not see the result of what happened to Glenn as a result of Daryl's stupidity? Negan didn't kill Daryl he killed Glenn. She had to know that even if she killed Negan that she would be shot dead and possibly everyone else in ASZ would be killed as well. Everyone else in ASZ don't have guns so they wouldn't be able to defend themselves.

Well I think she planned to be successful and cut Negan down, not hit his baseball bat.  With him dead there would have been a lot of confusion, you had a bunch of town people gathered who easily could have rushed one of his men and disarmed him.  He only visits there with a small goon squad not an army.  And his goons are such a bunch of weak-minded followers they would have probably been standing there slack-jawed instead of reacting to the situation.  Which is why it's so lame and stupid that no one has already ambushed these idiots and killed them all when they show up for collection day.  Even without weapons you could pull it off if you have people position themselves to attack on a signal while these guys are loading their trucks.

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, ByTor said:

I guess I'll never understand Daryl being blamed for Glen.  How was he supposed to know Negan's rule was "you do something stupid I won't kill you, I'll kill someone else"?  All he knew was that Abe was killed in retaliation for them killing Negan's men.

I don't get it either. Daryl had no way of knowing "Hit Negan = someone gets his head bashed in." Maybe he would have killed someone else even if Daryl hadn't done a thing. Rosita certainly knew what would happen, if not to whom. I can only think everyone is so (understandably) mentally distraught they're not thinking straight.

[Ohwell]

15 hours ago, Miles said:

I don't get why people hate Gregory other than that the writers tell us we should. Sorry, but for me to hate a character they have to show, not tell. What has Gregory actually done apart from acting kinda smug? He wanted the pregnant lady, who was perfectly able to run around, to go home, because otherwise it would put his people in an enormous amount of danger. What a monster! /s

Or was his crime that he wouldn't give his apple to a woman (who acts just as smug as him) just because she happens to be pregnant? It's not like he's letting her starve.

The people on the hilltop live in peace and quiet with only minimal tributes to the saviors, while camp dinnerbell had a bunch of their people killed and most of their stuff stolen. I think Gregory is doing a far better job than Rick.

This.  I don't understand the hatred for Gregory either.  

[nodorothyparker]

Gregory has to be an awful person and leader so we see it as a good thing when members of CDB march in and take it over as the show seems to be signaling that at least Maggie and Sasha are going to.  Otherwise it might raise pesky questions about the imperiousness of it when they're obviously not managing their own affairs so well right now either.

Gregory's biggest real fault is that he apparently allowed all of his people to opt of out of least figuring out how to kill a few walkers or mount a token defensive effort, relying instead almost exclusively on Flying Ninja Jesus.  Otherwise he's managed Hilltop well enough to keep themselves fed even with the Saviors showing up to take their cut and CDB thinking they should have one as well.

[Ohwell]

Speaking of Flying Ninja Jesus, I just don't like the dude.  

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

Well I think she planned to be successful and cut Negan down, not hit his baseball bat.  With him dead there would have been a lot of confusion, you had a bunch of town people gathered who easily could have rushed one of his men and disarmed him.  He only visits there with a small goon squad not an army.

Or, don't make the assassination attempt in front of a crowd in the town square. It's not like he's been vulnerable or an open target on numerous occasions. 

[mightysparrow]

18 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Speaking of Flying Ninja Jesus, I just don't like the dude.  

I thought I was the only one!  The guy just seems like a waste of space.  Other than a few assorted ninja kicks (has anybody bothered to mention that KICKS won't take down a walker) he doesn't DO ANYTHING.  He thinks Gregory is a crap leader but won't do anything about it.  I can't tell if the actor is good or bad because he hasn't made any impression on me at all. 

[nodorothyparker]

I still don't feel like we've been given a good reason why we're supposed to like Flying Ninja Jesus aside from his flying ninja abilities.  From things he said early on and in previews, he's fully aware of other communities out there but never felt compelled to clue Rick and the crew in before they went off a murderin' solo.  He also apparently has the ability to hide in a Savior truck and stroll leisurely around their compound but didn't consider that important enough to maybe think about doing to provide intel before said murder spree either.  He's also fine with Rick and the crew taking all the risk but he always makes sure his face is never seen, as if his winter ensemble and flowing locks aren't sort of identifiable.

[Ohwell]

11 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I still don't feel like we've been given a good reason why we're supposed to like Flying Ninja Jesus aside from his flying ninja abilities.  From things he said early on and in previews, he's fully aware of other communities out there but never felt compelled to clue Rick and the crew in before they went off a murderin' solo.  He also apparently has the ability to hide in a Savior truck and stroll leisurely around their compound but didn't consider that important enough to maybe think about doing to provide intel before said murder spree either.  He's also fine with Rick and the crew taking all the risk but he always makes sure his face is never seen, as if his winter ensemble and flowing locks aren't sort of identifiable.

Thank you for explaining all the reasons why I don't like him.  I was just too lazy to do it.  

I haven't read the comics so I don't know anything about his character other than what I see on the show, but I'll go so far as to say that I don't even trust him.  It's just mighty strange to me that he doesn't tell Rick & crew the whole story about what he knows.  

Edited December 15, 2016 by Ohwell
typo

[AngelaHunter]

I don't like Jesus either. He bores me, in spite of his acrobatics and his apparent ability to render himself invisible.

As for Gregory, he's like a politician or a car salesman - a little oily, kind of smarmy, but I don't dislike or like him. He's just kind of there.

.

[JackONeill]

3 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I don't like Jesus either. He bores me, in spite of his acrobatics and his apparent ability to render himself invisible.

As for Gregory, he's like a politician or a car salesman - a little oily, kind of smarmy, but I don't dislike or like him. He's just kind of there.

.

And he's there if you need to buy a car. Like a gently used and gently rolled over Gremlin.

 

(Remember who made the Gremiln? AMC. And who makes the Walking Dead? AMC. Apparently, someone has a sense of humor.)

[lunaseas1122]

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I thought I was the only one!  The guy just seems like a waste of space.  Other than a few assorted ninja kicks (has anybody bothered to mention that KICKS won't take down a walker) he doesn't DO ANYTHING.  He thinks Gregory is a crap leader but won't do anything about it.  I can't tell if the actor is good or bad because he hasn't made any impression on me at all. 

But...but...he's so pretty.

[HolmesUltimateQu]

On 12/12/2016 at 9:45 AM, GodsBeloved said:

And me to Rick: Nah son. Lori been dead how long? You're the parent, the only one so his screws ups are on you.

About a year. 

[ByTor]

2 hours ago, lunaseas1122 said:

But...but...he's so pretty.

That's my reason for liking him :)

[Gobi]

Could Jesus be responsible for the dead coming back to life?

[CletusMusashi]

On 12/12/2016 at 0:50 PM, BonnieD said:

Who's going down to tropical places and hauling back bananas? 

The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plumber may seek warmer climes in winter yet these are not strangers to our land. 

On 12/12/2016 at 0:50 PM, BonnieD said:

 Bananas. In North America. 

They probably escaped from a zoo.

[Johnny Dollar]

Excellent observation on the bananas. It's a relatively minor point but shows how ridiculous this show's reality can get. 

Love the Holy Grail reference Cletus. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Johnny Dollar

[diebartdie]

They weren't bananas, they were yellow squash. Let's feud about this for the next several months.

[AngelaHunter]

We had bananas? I must have missed those. As for Jesus, the only reason I notice his existence is because of the silly way he's bundled up when everyone else is sweating buckets. I keep waiting for him to keel over with heatstroke.

ETA:

Quote

They weren't bananas, they were yellow squash.

Oh, thank goodness! I DID see those and am thankful I'm not losing it. Yet.

Edited December 16, 2016 by AngelaHunter

[mightysparrow]

20 hours ago, lunaseas1122 said:

But...but...he's so pretty.

I don't see the pretty either.

[JackONeill]

9 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

They probably escaped from a zoo.

Planet of the Apes = Bananas.

See, there's a simple answer for everything.

But, seriously, wouldn't it be cool to see some apes go up against a herd of Walkers. Much like Negan, they would probably "adopt" Daryl and take him home and make him their pet. I'm not sure who would stink worse: Daryl or an ape. (All I can remember is what Charlton Heston said.)

[ByTor]

51 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

As for Jesus, the only reason I notice his existence is because of the silly way he's bundled up when everyone else is sweating buckets. I keep waiting for him to keel over with heatstroke.

*Raises hand and volunteers to revive him :)

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, JackONeill said:

But, seriously, wouldn't it be cool to see some apes go up against a herd of Walkers. Much like Negan, they would probably "adopt" Daryl and take him home and make him their pet.

And they will pet him and hug him and call him George. Daryl could use Charlton's line too: "Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!" and Ape would say, "Look who's talking."

[Captain Asshat]

On 12/12/2016 at 9:30 PM, ganesh said:

I would have liked to know more about the people in Negan's camp. It seemed like the people beating up Aaron were just bullies. But is it that they always were or that they think that's how they're supposed to act, or did they just turn that way?

There have been a few sociological experiments that have shown regular old, everyday human beings will be shitty to other human beings once they realize there are no repercussions for doing so. It starts mildly and can quickly build up to full on sadism. Look up the Stanford Prison Experiment or the Milgram Experiment. My guess is that Negan's minions were probably regular people before the ZA.

[CletusMusashi]

Hey, check out this headline:

http://screenrant.com/walking-dead-season-6-midseason-finale-wall/

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Captain Asshat said:

There have been a few sociological experiments that have shown regular old, everyday human beings will be shitty to other human beings once they realize there are no repercussions for doing so. It starts mildly and can quickly build up to full on sadism. Look up the Stanford Prison Experiment or the Milgram Experiment. My guess is that Negan's minions were probably regular people before the ZA.

This would have been an interesting theme to explore in a supersized episode. But let's just watch Negan brand someone instead.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

There have been a few sociological experiments that have shown regular old, everyday human beings will be shitty to other human beings once they realize there are no repercussions for doing so.

No need for experiments. One needs only to look at human history. When torture, murder and gladiator battles were spectator sports, people really got off on it and even now WITH repercussions, people being shitty (and incredibly barbaric) to other human beings happens around the clock. I've always said that - even today -  if gladiator battles could be televised on PPV, the audience would be enormous, although no one would admit watching it. People haven't changed one iota since the dawn of time. It's just the technology and laws that have improved, but if some apocalypse occured the human species would revert right back to open barbarism and savagery.  "Lord of the Flies" is a good example.

In TWD, it's survival of the fittest and who gets to eat today, which is what it's always come down to.

[Jordan27]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 3:21 AM, spiderpig said:

Believe it or not, I didn't notice a Boots character until reading this board.  Must've been refilling my wineglass.  Will have to rewind and keep an eye out.  (Sorry, Kurl.)

It happened at least once during the ep, but check it out after the credits.  They did the same thing with Morgan one season.

[Jordan27]

I liked the season more than most, but the overdone violence in ep one was a real turnoff and I think that is biggest reason for the ratings drop off.

My other big complaint is that the gang should have been prepared with all their guns when Negan and the Saviors first came to Alexandria and had it out then.  They had the advantage with the walls and could have taken out a lot of them and maybe would have won.  Better that than being slaves to them.  Of course, this was done for a plot contrivance and is sloppy writing.  The group we know would never have gave up that quick. 

Carl not shooting Negan was silly too.  Why hold back?  More plot twisting.  Rosita and the one bullet?  More dumbness.

And now we have the gang where they should have been many episodes ago.  Back to taking care of business.

[allyw]

On 12/15/2016 at 6:00 AM, ByTor said:

I guess I'll never understand Daryl being blamed for Glen.  How was he supposed to know Negan's rule was "you do something stupid I won't kill you, I'll kill someone else"?  All he knew was that Abe was killed in retaliation for them killing Negan's men.

 

On 12/15/2016 at 9:59 AM, AngelaHunter said:

I don't get it either. Daryl had no way of knowing "Hit Negan = someone gets his head bashed in." Maybe he would have killed someone else even if Daryl hadn't done a thing. Rosita certainly knew what would happen, if not to whom. I can only think everyone is so (understandably) mentally distraught they're not thinking straight.

 

I'm one of those people who blame Daryl because Negan  told them they could cry or whatever other bullshit but that if anyone moved then he was going to cut out Carl's other eye and feed it to Rick. He's too freaking old to be lacking self-control. So yeah Daryl acted impulsively after hearing Negan's threat to Carl and he's just as responsible for Glenn's death as Rosita is for Olivia's.

[spiderpig]

2 hours ago, Jordan27 said:

 

My other big complaint is that the gang should have been prepared with all their guns when Negan and the Saviors first came to Alexandria and had it out then.  They had the advantage with the walls and could have taken out a lot of them and maybe would have won.  Better that than being slaves to them.  Of course, this was done for a plot contrivance and is sloppy writing.  The group we know would never have gave up that quick. 

This is where they lost me too.  Rick had no compunction about executing the outpost guys, but rolls over and plays dead to the Saviours.  And it wasn't a possum act.  I wanted to slap him silly.

At least Carol has the intestinal fortitude to say "I need a time out.  Go away and I'll let you know when I'm ready to fight again."

She'll be back - big time.

[Mu Shu]

On 12/15/2016 at 10:52 AM, Ohwell said:

This.  I don't understand the hatred for Gregory either.  

Gregory doesn't bother me much,since I cannot stand Maggie.  Maybe he's smarmy, but she's so one note and annoying.  I sort of wanted Simon to find her .  Screw Maggie,save the booze. 

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

In TWD, it's survival of the fittest and who gets to eat today, which is what it's always come down to.

I get that's the premise of the show, and I don't dispute the brutality of human nature, but I just don't buy that everyone we run into on the show basically fits into three characterizations. Regardless of the year, it's the 21st century. There's people somewhere, if not trying to figure out how this happened, at least documenting *everything*. We even saw something like that in Woodbury. The guy was wrong, but at least was trying. The problem was he was played for stupid, instead of, "what can we learn now?" 

FFS, The Earth Abides was written in the 1940s, and it's a 100+ something novel that painted a way more complex tapestry of humanity in a similar situation. So, just survival of the fittest just doesn't wash, and, frankly, it's overly simplistic. I've said before, I bet there's people in Idaho/Utah/Wyoming that are living totally fine with livestock, farms, etc., and these people on the show we're watching just happen to be a bunch of really stupid people. 

Overall, it's just a lack of creativity on TPTBs. They came up with a great concept and really just dropped the ball. They don't even know much about the world they have.