S12.E08: Lotus

[catrox14]

The tone and look and feel of this episode was nothing like SPN.

Truly it made me long for the Leviathan. At least Dick Roman as a smarmy asshole but he was a 10 times more compelling actor than this guy playing President Jeff.  I wouldn't have minded Lucifer possessing the real Dick Roman. But I guess LeviaDickRoman ate him. 

[Macbeth]

Season 7 is completely underrated in my opinion.  There is so much going for it.  The binding of Death - one of the greatest scenes in the entire series, Dick Roman, the image of Cas (as retold by Dean) standing naked on top of Baby covered in bees, the introduction of Kevin Tran and Charlie....

[sarthaz]

20 hours ago, catrox14 said:

The tone and look and feel of this episode was nothing like SPN.

Truly it made me long for the Leviathan. At least Dick Roman as a smarmy asshole but he was a 10 times more compelling actor than this guy playing President Jeff.  I wouldn't have minded Lucifer possessing the real Dick Roman. But I guess LeviaDickRoman ate him. 

There's no way to read those two words that's not sarcastic and dismissive.  President Jeff.  It just sounds so small and lame, which I guess describes the current state of the show.

I like Cas and Crowley, but not these neutered versions.  At my RL church, our pastor was giving a sermon on Joseph and how when angels visit people in the Bible, they are frightened, because it's an angel of the fuckin' Lord.  And all I could think about was how Cas once took an entire episode just to introduce himself to Dean without literally blowing his mind, and now he's Agent Beyonce.

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

There's no way to read those two words that's not sarcastic and dismissive.  President Jeff.  It just sounds so small and lame, which I guess describes the current state of the show.

I suppose I could have gone with President WhateverHisLastNameIsButIDontCareEnoughToFindOut. 

[catrox14]

What bothers me most about the boys being captured aside from the stupidity, is that it was pretty much out of left field.

President Jeff telling his minions that the boys are trying to assassinate him should have been set up at the end of Rock Never Dies. Show Lucifer in POTUS office and then cliffhanger us with the boys driving down the road after making apparently making a getaway, only to see the Secret Service after them again. Show the boys being stopped a 2nd time or even at a roadblock. Show them with their arms in the air, still sitting in the Impala and the Secret Service approaching the car.  Leave us with the boys exchanging a look that communicates they are thinking of making a run for it and leave us with THAT moment.  Because it's the chase that matters at this point. Open 12.09, with the answer to whether they were captured or not. Don't even show them in the preview for the next episode. Just show them sitting in the car, show Cas and Mary trying to find them and don't  tell us what happened UNTIL the episode airs.   Leave us with "OH SHIT. Will the boys make a run for it!?".

I would swallowed all the other shit if that would have been the cliffhanger.   

[JunebugWA]

I am SO over any plot with Lucifer right now. Come one, show! Stopping beating a dead horse. 

[Macbeth]

Besides the plot with Lucifer being old - they just had the evil child last season. (I am starting to watch S11).   I know there is a lot of wash, rinse, repeat on this show - but a major arc like that?  They are out of ideas.

[MysteryGuest]

Well, someone is out of ideas, but that's exactly what pisses me off.  There were any number of ways they could have taken the storyline this season that could have been new and exciting.  They had zero restrictions after God left town.  They are the ones who chose to go down the same old path and lock themselves into this Lucifer borefest.  I can't imagine the new writers came on board just clamoring to write the same stale stories, so the show runners obviously told them the direction they wanted to go.  I think the blame for this season can be laid at their feet.

[FlickChick]

I wonder if any attempts will be made to change course after the break? Do the TPTB ever read this site or others like it?  I've never seen SO MANY negative posts about the way the season is being handled and the obnoxious reusing of the Lucifer storyline ad nauseam. I personally think that the lack of good writing and Dean and Sam appearances in the episodes might end this series rather quickly with plummeting ratings. JMO.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

I wonder if any attempts will be made to change course after the break? Do the TPTB ever read this site or others like it?  I've never seen SO MANY negative posts about the way the season is being handled and the obnoxious reusing of the Lucifer storyline ad nauseam. I personally think that the lack of good writing and Dean and Sam appearances in the episodes might end this series rather quickly with plummeting ratings. JMO.

The ratings aren't plummeting. They are up over the previous Thursday night fare by 25%.  Pedowitz and Roth are happy.

They've already written through at least 12.17.  They won't change the story this year but Dabb may tweek next year if he feels the criticism is valid.

[catrox14]

21 minutes ago, SueB said:

The ratings aren't plummeting. They are up over the previous Thursday night fare by 25%.  Pedowitz and Roth are happy.

They are up for Thursday but down from last season overall according TVSeriesFinale

Thus far this season it's averaging .66 vs .70 avg for all of season 11. It really depends on what TPTB value the most. Also, we'll see what happens with the move to 8PM.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1i4IfQufJnv28LwfJWIz_Ea0E8u3f4vhTmL4pZz3620Q/pubhtml/sheet?headers=false&gid=1712019938&range=A1%3AH100

Quote

For comparisons: The 11th season of Supernatural  averaged a 0.70 rating in the 18-49 demographic with 1.78 million total viewers (Live+SD).

[MysteryGuest]

I know that I'm naive, but it would be nice to think that they actually cared about the quality of the show, and not just the ratings.  It wouldn't take much to keep this going for a while, if that's really what they want, but so far this season, it's just not cutting it.  What I find strange is that it seemed like they realized they were in over their heads last season, and made some apologetic noises about some of the episodes.  Then they made more noises about "getting back to basics" this season, but apparently it was just that...noise.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

I know that I'm naive, but it would be nice to think that they actually cared about the quality of the show, and not just the ratings.  It wouldn't take much to keep this going for a while, if that's really what they want, but so far this season, it's just not cutting it.  What I find strange is that it seemed like they realized they were in over their heads last season, and made some apologetic noises about some of the episodes.  Then they made more noises about "getting back to basics" this season, but apparently it was just that...noise.

I strongly disagree about whether or not they care.  I think they care a great deal.  I get you're not happy with the story but that's not proof they don't care.  The interviews, the DVD videos, the tweets... all of this shows they care IMO.  

Regardless, I think we've strayed far afield from LOTUS.  I suggest further discussion in the All Seasons Thread. If you simply want uncontested negativity, then I suggest the Bitterness Thread.

Edited December 14, 2016 by SueB

[ahrtee]

This is *sort* of LOTUS-related, but I'll move if requested.  

My question here is:  is everyone *so* unhappy with this whole season so far?  Because I seem to remember a lot of praise for at least 5 out of the first 6 episodes, at least.  Sure, there were many complaints about plot holes or questionable characterizations, but I don't think anyone complained about "boring." It wasn't till these last two episodes that I started seeing all the "show is out of ideas/maybe it's time to end" type of posts, and it seemed specifically because of the Lucifer storyline and lack of Winchester presence.    

This is not to say that there aren't many who've been frustrated for years and are finally ready to quit, but, judging by a lot of the posts I've seen, it seems to me that most were still interested until the last few episodes.  Is that true?  

IA completely that the last few eps were pretty (well, *very*) bad--boring, chock full of plot holes and epic stupidity done just for convenience's sake (I'm assuming?) but I'm kind of hopeful that there's a reason for most of it that we'll see later down the road.  Aside from the Lucifer stuff, they've set up any number of possibilities to follow up on, including Mary and her relationship with the boys/her place in today's world, Mr. Ketch and the BMoL, Rosemary's Baby, Boys in Chains, Billie and The Empty, and not even counting Jody and Donna, and the Cas/Crowley/Rowena show.  Surely *some* of them will be worth watching?  After all, there have always been jewels hidden among the dreck (even if only scenes or moments rather than whole episodes), and, even though I'm not usually an optimist, I'm still hopeful that there will be more Sam and Dean once the family demands settle down (when is Gen due?)  Maybe the writers will even figure out who the characters are and make them*all* interesting again.  And I *do* think they all care about making a good show, even if they're not quite sure how to do it (yet/any more?)  

[AwesomO4000]

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion and say that I'm personally sort of intrigued by the nephillum (sp?) storyline, I don't really mind the Lucifer storyline all that much - he's a villain whose motives I understand - there's some potential for an interesting episode and arc next year, and I've enjoyed that there isn't any "brother drama" so far this season. Yes, there have been a few moments of unfortunate plot driven stupid - though I'm still hoping that there's another explanation upcoming (talk about optimism) - but over all I'd put this smack in the middle of the last 5 years in terms of season beginnings and mid-season finales.

(Warning: My opinions coming up) I'd rate the first half of this season just a little below season 10, a good bit above season 9 (though that season does suffer a bit from hindsight - can't help it), and waaaay above the beginning of season 8... which was the only season where I actually stopped watching live for almost a month. And coming back live after catching some of "Hunter Heroici" only to catch "Citizen Fang" almost made me quit the show entirely... Talk about (for me) a crappy mid-season finale. Geesh. Let's have a super depressing episode story arc and the brothers acting as crappy to each other as possible with a heavy dose of out of character behavior thrown on top. Yup, that's gonna make me want to come back next year. *sarcasm* The fact that that episode had the potential to be really good actually somehow only made it worse, because the episode  instead ended up being so depressing and annoying (It made me think that Andrew Dabb was the one who made the earlier Dabb/Loflin episodes at least somewhat good - with a few episodes of brilliance thrown in.) Season 9's mid-season finale gave us murdered Kevin - happy holidays! - and season 10's mid-season finale (The Things We Left Behind) was pretty lame as well even if the previous episodes were pretty good.

So for me, this mid-season finale episode at least had some amusing moments, some good brother interaction, and the actual potential for something interesting for the second half of the season - even if we had to endure some stupid to get there. It didn't depress and infuriate me (Citizen Fang) or give me a dead main recurring character (Holy Terror) or give me a story that went off on a tangent with minor characters I really didn't care much about and with also a bit of stupid thrown in for plot purposes (The Things We left Behind). Even the season 11 mid-season finale was not without some missteps. Also even some of the early season mid-season finales kind of fell short for me (Croatoan - I don't dislike it as some do, but it wasn't without it's problems; Heaven and Hell - grace trees? ugh! Even season 7's mid-season finale (Death's Door) as good as I thought it was, was still depressing with dead Bobby.)

So all in all, as a recent mid-season finale, I didn't really find this episode to be all that bad, myself. *shrug*

Edited December 14, 2016 by AwesomO4000

[Dobian]

A couple of things.  First, this show has never done religious horror well.  When Archbishop Lucifer is walking past the crosses and they're spinning upside down, there's no dread like when you're watching the Omen.  It's, "so there's that punk Lucifer, what's he up to?"  We already know that Lucifer isn't some cloven hoofed monster who walks around with the"Ave Satani" chorus in the background, he's this brat with daddy issues.  And Hell isn't this place of terror like we all imagine it to be, it's more like a bad third world country run by an organized crime ring with a slovenly leader.  And demons and angels can hang out and have a beer together just as easily as they can kill each other.

I never like when shows like this start portraying the POTUS or the Pope or any other major global figure, because the scale is just too big and that ruins believability even for a show that's unbelievable to begin with.  The Bryan Cranstonish President comes off more as a corporate executive operating out of hotels and with a small private security team, not the leader of the free world.  I don't want to watch an episode where the Senate is having a session to debate the Winchesters.

Crowley blowing Rowena's fiance up and splattering her face with him was kind of fun.  Dean's line that he didn't know Lucifer was dating when he found out he knocked someone up with his Hellspawn was funny.  And telling Cass to stop it when he referred to Crowley as agent Zappa cracked me up.  At least he didn't call him agent Madonna.  The rest of the episode wasn't that good.  The case of the week episodes are much more entertaining this season.  This main story arc isn't really cutting it, it feels like they are just making it up as they go.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Dobian

[Demented Daisy]

4 hours ago, Dobian said:

This main story arc isn't really cutting it, it feels like they are just making it up as they go.

Taking to All Episodes.

[Myrelle]

Second mid-season finale in a row that I've decided to skip. This one is being trashed everywhere I've been. Hope the writers wake up during the hiatus. 

[DittyDotDot]

7 hours ago, ahrtee said:

My question here is:  is everyone *so* unhappy with this whole season so far?  

Taken to All Seasons thread.

[Jynnan tonnix]

On 12/13/2016 at 11:36 PM, ahrtee said:

This is *sort* of LOTUS-related, but I'll move if requested.  

My question here is:  is everyone *so* unhappy with this whole season so far?  Because I seem to remember a lot of praise for at least 5 out of the first 6 episodes, at least.  Sure, there were many complaints about plot holes or questionable characterizations, but I don't think anyone complained about "boring." It wasn't till these last two episodes that I started seeing all the "show is out of ideas/maybe it's time to end" type of posts, and it seemed specifically because of the Lucifer storyline and lack of Winchester presence.    

This is not to say that there aren't many who've been frustrated for years and are finally ready to quit, but, judging by a lot of the posts I've seen, it seems to me that most were still interested until the last few episodes.  Is that true?  

IA completely that the last few eps were pretty (well, *very*) bad--boring, chock full of plot holes and epic stupidity done just for convenience's sake (I'm assuming?) but I'm kind of hopeful that there's a reason for most of it that we'll see later down the road.  Aside from the Lucifer stuff, they've set up any number of possibilities to follow up on, including Mary and her relationship with the boys/her place in today's world, Mr. Ketch and the BMoL, Rosemary's Baby, Boys in Chains, Billie and The Empty, and not even counting Jody and Donna, and the Cas/Crowley/Rowena show.  Surely *some* of them will be worth watching?  After all, there have always been jewels hidden among the dreck (even if only scenes or moments rather than whole episodes), and, even though I'm not usually an optimist, I'm still hopeful that there will be more Sam and Dean once the family demands settle down (when is Gen due?)  Maybe the writers will even figure out who the characters are and make them*all* interesting again.  And I *do* think they all care about making a good show, even if they're not quite sure how to do it (yet/any more?)  

Maybe not the right thread for this either since my Amazon season pass has STILL not aired Lotus, but I rather agree with this.  The season, overall, has not been bad at all in my eyes. The Hitler episode was the only one I really disliked, though I'll probably give that a rewatch anyway given than a number of people seemed to think it improved on a second viewing.

If the show does appear to be making things up as they go along a bit, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt for a little longer and see whether this is an attempt to change direction without being overly obvious about it. Lucifer has been such a presence in the show for so long now that he kind of deserves an arc of reasonable magnitude rather than killing him off in one fell swoop. And I have to say that the idea of nephilim in general has always intrigued me, so I am cautiously interested in where they take it. They may just be trying to write the change of direction as more an organic thing which will come together after the hiatus, but it's just coming off a bit clumsy in the process.

As to the British Men of Letters...They did set them up to be a particularly unlikable group of villains, but also with room to change their spots, as it were. Maybe they had a couple of possible arcs planned, and wanted to see how they were received before continuing? I have no idea whether shows even do ever work this way, so that's purely speculation.

Maybe I'm just not as frustrated as some given the fact that I've only been watching the show for slightly over a year, so it's not really broken down to seasons in my mind, and certainly not as something which has spanned any real time; it's all still sort of a homogeneous mass in my head at the moment. I have not really had time to weary of even the most drawn out of storylines, but on the other hand I have not really had the time to examine them and the characters at leisure enough to really formulate good criticisms. Not sure if that comes out to a win or a lose...

[rue721]

Man, I don't care about nephilism.

No more storylines that are about lineage, please. No Men of Letters legacy shit, no satanic bloodlines, etc etc etc. Sorry but it's boring as hell. No pun intended.

I thought this one was really boring altogether. President Jeff barely registered. I guess if you're going to have to wear any meatsuit, might as well be the president's, but did Lucifer actually make use of presidential power at all? He didn't even hold a rally.

You'd think that he'd just go wear a cult leader (as a meatsuit). Why not. He could go around telling people he's the son of god and everyone in the cult would throw themselves at his feet for it. Or at worst, just agree with him and say Hallelujah. You'd think that would be more Lucifer's style than sitting through debriefs and all that other dry political/policy-making stuff.

The season as a whole started out REALLY strong IMO. But there's been a downhill trajectory recently.

Personally, something that I like best about this show is that it's obviously kind of dorky and hokey, but it somehow also manages to be amazingly cool sometimes. Just the atmosphere it can create, the look of it, the aesthetics, the music...why do the producers think that Baby is so beloved? She's just a car, but she's a cool as shit car. So I hate when the show veers off into atmosphere/aesthetics/etc that are just NOT COOL. And the atmosphere/aesthetics/etc in this episode weren't cool at all.

I understand the need for the show to be more of an ensemble -- and am fine with that. I like the Winchesters' world. I'd be happy to get to see more of it, even if they're not directly involved. But only if the characters who are meant to show us more of it seem like they *actually belong in it themselves,* too. The show is capable of creating characters like that. I didn't like Bobby very much, but IMO he and Rufus felt like they fit. The hunting couple who the Winchesters met last season felt like they fit. Mary feels like she fits. Jody sometimes feels like she does, although I get a little sick of her (IMO she herself is fine, but she needs more interesting/important/close characters/relationships in her life to make her interesting to watch. Right now watching her, it's like trying to watch a show about Sam if Dean didn't exist. Not bad, but kind of missing something. Needs more give-and-take IMO).

But IMO Crowley, Rowena, Cas, and Lucifer are never going to be able to carry their own entirely separate storylines, let alone episodes, because IMO they don't fit into the world of the show well enough. Not that they can't be there at all -- I'm happy with them being on the show. Well, Crowley and Rowena anyway. But they're always going to be side characters, because they're just too out of place within the (original) world of the show to act as guides for the audience in exploring that world IMO.

[DigitalCount]

Finally watching this one.

I missed the part where Luci said he was a virgin. I know Kelly said he remarked that he had never created anything before, but I took that to meant that he meant he hadn't had kids. Disclaimer: I muted the episode during the prayer (given SPN's track record, I have no interest in hearing what he had to say during that), so if he said it at that time then I didn't hear it.

It was pretty obvious that they were going in a nephilim direction once Kelly appeared on screen. I wondered if they'd name-check Jesse at all. Wonder what he's doing.

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, DigitalCount said:

I missed the part where Luci said he was a virgin.

I don't think he out-and-out said he was a virgin, but their post-coital chat suggested it when Lucifer sheepishly said, "It's almost like I've never done that before."

[ZennyKenny]

On 12/9/2016 at 6:30 AM, Demented Daisy said:

One more thing -- Rowena needs her own series.  I do love her so.  :-)

1. Hell yeah! I'd watch the hell out of that!

2. At this point, it seems like the Winchesters need their own series.

[ZennyKenny]

What the actual fuck did I just watch?

Ok guys, joke's over. Nice extended gag reel. Can we the real season 12 now?

Seriously, WHY is the writing so bad? My wife is an SPN fangirl! She has a signed picture of Dean hanging on our living room wall! She's bought every single "Always Keep Fighting" shirt! And even SHE hasn't watched the last 2 episodes because she's just so bored with this season.

Who greenlit not one, but TWO scenes with Lucifer cuddling? CUDDLING?! Are you fucking kidding me?!?!?!

Ugh, that scene where the Secret Service stopped the Impala on the road. When Cas got out of the car, I was practically fist-pumping the air! FINALLY Cas was going to kick some ass with his supernatural angel powers! Lol NOPE! He was just going to stand there like an idiot. Including when a grenade whizzed by his head.

And... well I'm pretty sure I can't say anything about the god-awful end that others haven't already said.

You know, being a fan is a lot like being a hunter: you always get sucked back in. I had successfully quit this show, but I just couldn't stay away and decided to give it another chance. Boy do I wish that I hadn't!

[MysteryGuest]

This is the only episode that I have not done a re-watch on.  I just can't bring myself to do it.  I have zero interest in Lucifer and his love life, and the non-Lucifer parts are just so frustrating that I don't want to depress myself all over again.  I'm holding out hope that when they resume, things will improve.  They almost have to, or we're in for a very long season.

[Katy M]

So, I got the S12 DVDS (habit I think) and I noticed that this episode is listed as L.O.T.U.S.  And I was like is it an acronym?  I tried to figure this out for a couple of minutes when I realized, Lucifer POTUS.  Was that supposed to be obvious and I'm an idiot. Because I didn't get that the first time I saw it.  I honestly had no idea why they used that as a title.  But, I usually don't when they try to get cutesy with titles.

[catrox14]

Just now, Katy M said:

So, I got the S12 DVDS (habit I think) and I noticed that this episode is listed as L.O.T.U.S.  And I was like is it an acronym?  I tried to figure this out for a couple of minutes when I realized, Lucifer POTUS.  Was that supposed to be obvious and I'm an idiot. Because I didn't get that the first time I saw it.  I honestly had no idea why they used that as a title.  But, I usually don't when they try to get cutesy with titles.

Yeah it was always supposed to be Lucifer of The United States. It's stupid really . 

[bettername2come]

The crucifixes turning upside down as Lucifer walked past was a nice creepy moment. Crowley and Cas's dual "Agents" when the boys walked in was nice, as was Cas's "I agree with Agent Zappa." I like the Kelly Kline actress, although I prefer her in other things. I loved Rowena's very sincere "That's the sweetest thing you've ever done for me" i.e. the exploding boyfriend. Ketch had a nice entrance, but how dare someone get to use a grenade launcher before Dean? Since when is Castiel a lie detector? I never mind Sam and Dean getting arrested. Frankly, they should get arrested/almost get arrested a lot more often. 

[DittyDotDot]

11 hours ago, bettername2come said:

The crucifixes turning upside down as Lucifer walked past was a nice creepy moment.

I recently watched the first season of The Young Pope and had a "I Watch Too Much Supernatural" moment with the title sequence. Crosses don't turn, but the slo-mo shot was evocative.

11 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I never mind Sam and Dean getting arrested. Frankly, they should get arrested/almost get arrested a lot more often. 

You and me both!!

[Hanahope]

Ohhh, so that's what LOTUS means, hahah, very clever.  and appropriate.

LOL at Rowena being all happy with Crowley for blowing up her cheating boyfriend.  She's obviously knew at dating.

We only got to see a small bit of the prez before luci took over.  I guess he wasn't as pious as he seemed?  Nor was, apparently, the archbishop of St. Louis.  Yes, all these supposedly pious christian men, end up saying yes to lucifer.  Why would they?  Its not like they need more power that Luci could give them.  Maybe the prez was still too upset over dead wife?  But apparently he'd been shaggin his aide, so i don't get it.  Its not these people are the poor sap that Pelligrino's character was, or for the reasons Sam did.  I just don't get why one would agree to be a vessel for lucifer unless they wanted power, money or were is dispair.  makes no real sense.  He has to tell them that's his really lucifer, and not some other angel, right?

And now he's going to have a kid, just great.  Rosemary's (or Kelley's) baby.  Will it be another quick grow, like Amarra, or take its time?   And Kelly, you just had proof of lucifer and you still want to birth his baby?  Seriously?

I liked the golden egg that could pull him out.  At leat the BMOL are good for something.

And surprised that everyone left Sam and Dean to the secret service.  

[Wayward Son]

On 9 December 2016 at 4:07 PM, catrox14 said:

Anna was a little different because she chose to fall and was basically born into her meatsuit and she had been  living as a human her entire life although she chose to have sex after she realized she was an angel. So I'm not sure how that works for Anna's vessel.

In Heaven and Hell Anna mentions tha her mother Amy could not get pregnant and had always referred to her as "her little miracle". I took that to mean Anna was not possessing a vessel, but that body had been hers from the moment of conception. So there would have been no consent issues to worry about with regards to Dean and Anna having sex. 

[Katy M]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 1:01 PM, Hanahope said:

We only got to see a small bit of the prez before luci took over.  I guess he wasn't as pious as he seemed?  Nor was, apparently, the archbishop of St. Louis.  Yes, all these supposedly pious christian men, end up saying yes to lucifer.  Why would they? 

I got the feeling that Lucifer wasn't being exactly superhonest in his identity and just said that he was an angel.  

[The Companion]

On 12/8/2016 at 9:08 PM, ae2 said:

 

Best part:

Crowley's mom: I'm a witch. He's an Angel.

Crowley: And I'm the King of Hell.

Woman: Oh, God.

Castiel: No, he left.

This part was amazing. I didn't love this episode, but this conversation was hilarious.

On 12/8/2016 at 9:10 PM, MysteryGuest said:

Yes, like I said, there were moments that were good, but most of it was just bizarre.  And I completely agree that Sam and Dean had absolutely no reason to stick around once they knew the president was alive.  It was stupid of them, and they're not stupid...except when the writers want them to be.  I so hate that.

This was so frustrating. There was absolutely no reason for them to stick around.

 

On 9/14/2017 at 5:46 PM, Katy M said:

So, I got the S12 DVDS (habit I think) and I noticed that this episode is listed as L.O.T.U.S.  And I was like is it an acronym?  I tried to figure this out for a couple of minutes when I realized, Lucifer POTUS.  Was that supposed to be obvious and I'm an idiot. Because I didn't get that the first time I saw it.  I honestly had no idea why they used that as a title.  But, I usually don't when they try to get cutesy with titles.

I am such an idiot because I thought of FLOTUS at first so I was like: lover of the US? Lady? Ohhhh Lucifer. I am dumb. 😂

 

This is one of those episodes that could have been so much better with some rewrites. I did love the Crowley-Rowena scene and the aforementioned conversation about monsters being real. The ending was so ridiculous, though. It made 0 sense.

I am also tired of Lucifer. I wish I thought this was the end of him. I don't believe it, though. I also wouldn't be excited about an evil baby storyline on a good day, but on the heels of Amara it is just exhausting

[Katy M]

14 hours ago, The Companion said:

This part was amazing. I didn't love this episode, but this conversation was hilarious.

That was kind of funny.  The other good part was Ketch coming and using his grenade launcher.  I didn't really get why they were telling Cas to keep back, though.  There weren't that many guys and it seems that Cas probably could have knocked them out.  What's the worst case scenario?  He gets shot. Not going to kill him anyway.  If they had had him join the fight in the beginning, they may not have gotten in that situation in the first place.

14 hours ago, The Companion said:

This was so frustrating. There was absolutely no reason for them to stick around.

Or have Cas stick around also and do his little mind control thing again that he did 5 minutes earlier, so we know he can.  That's the thing that irks me with Cas so much.  He has all these things he can do and they never use him even when he's right there.  Because plot reasons. 

 

[The Companion]

11 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That was kind of funny.  The other good part was Ketch coming and using his grenade launcher.  I didn't really get why they were telling Cas to keep back, though.  There weren't that many guys and it seems that Cas probably could have knocked them out.  What's the worst case scenario?  He gets shot. Not going to kill him anyway.  If they had had him join the fight in the beginning, they may not have gotten in that situation in the first place.

Or have Cas stick around also and do his little mind control thing again that he did 5 minutes earlier, so we know he can.  That's the thing that irks me with Cas so much.  He has all these things he can do and they never use him even when he's right there.  Because plot reasons. 

 

Agreed. They have never been able to write him in a satisfying way because he is too powerful. They have to nerf him or the answer to all problems will be "where's Cas?" It makes for a frustrating watch, though, because it seems his powers fluctuate with the plot.