S02.E07: Who's the Cool Girl Josh Is Dating?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Rebecca and Valencia find more than they bargained for when they investigate the new girl Josh has been dating; Paula feels distant from her husband, Scott.

Promo:

[Primetimer]

She never really cared until she met you. But now Josh's cool new girlfriend chills her to the bone!

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[Valny]

She never really cared until she met you. But now Josh's cool new girlfriend chills her to the bone!

View the full article

I loved that last song with Paula and Rebecca, that was a catchy 80's hair band ballad! And their hair actually got a little bigger from when they started. I actually thought they'd have their wigs become bigger and bigger as the song went on but it didn't go that way.
I usually don't say this but I wanted that song to be a little longer.

Heather was cracking me the hell up, she had all the great lines and I love her deadpan delivery.

Did not care for Anna's song, it had a few funny parts but it I need more melody to my songs.
Wow, looks like Paula's hubby is getting a lot more screen time. Also, looks like he has an admirer.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

Clip:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I didn't care for Anna's song either. The lyrics were funny, but I agree that it needed more melody. Thank goodness Facebook and Instagram didn't exist when I was in high school because that might have been too much fuel for my teenage stalking. It was nice to see Heather being the voice of reason trying to talk Rebecca and Valencia out of gong down the rabbit hole.

They also nailed the hipster vibe well. Ichabod, his coffee snobbery, the ridiculously long menu, all the facial hair, just perfect. Ha, great when Anna accused Uzo of being a name dropper right after she dropped all the other celeb names in the same sentence.

I loved that Rebecca kept trying to talk to Valencia about things like body image and consent.

Why is Paula turning into Rebecca? I totally understand her being excited about school and losing track of time, but not listening to Sunil at all? Poor Scott. That performance was a big deal for him and he was so excited about it. He deserved to have Paula there supporting him. But I will admit that I got annoyed when he said he was wearing an upside down t-shirt instead of underwear because Paula had been too busy to do laundry and he didn't know how to use the washing machine. It's not rocket science, dude. I started doing my own laundry when I was ten years old. New machines are even easier. Dump your clothes in with some detergent. Press the biggest button on the machine. Paula is working and going to school on top of being a wife and mother (aka cooking, cleaning, etc) so I don't think it would kill someone else in the family to do laundry.

The 80s power ballad was great, especially when they added the mullet wigs (I agree that they could have gone even bigger). Loved that they included the requisite random girl dancing in the video (and I really liked the pirouette she did with the arms switching - I rewound that part like ten times just to admire it).

[theatremouse]

14 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Why is Paula turning into Rebecca? I totally understand her being excited about school and losing track of time, but not listening to Sunil at all? Poor Scott. That performance was a big deal for him and he was so excited about it. He deserved to have Paula there supporting him.

I sort of thought the point, at least partially of both that happening AND the The Wire stuff was maybe to illustrate that Paula and Rebecca do have more in common than just Josh shenanigans, not that Paula's turning into Rebecca, but that perhaps she's been more like her all along. Back when they were doing shenanigans, didn't Paula regularly forget to show up for stuff with Scott? So even though she put the kibosh on Josh-drama because she realized it was unhealthy (not just because it was obsessive and bad but also impacting the rest of her life), probably Paula just gets this way about whatever she's into. I don't think it was about being in a rut with Scott. The Josh-sitch wasn't an anomaly for Paula. I think that's just how she is. And her not listening to Sunil is either indicative that she's nearly as self-absorbed as Rebecca, or that she's doing a knee-jerk turnaround and since she just experienced the "me-me-me" with Rebecca she's (not necessarily consciously) now doing it herself: Paula's turn.

Paula egged Rebecca on for a long time, made some of Rebecca's already bad impulses worse. That combined with her being as involved in constitutional law as she was about The Wire tells me when Paula's interested in something, it's all she focuses on, regardless of what that interest is. And when she's not interested you can only get her attention if you catch her in a moment when she's not already thinking about interest-of-the-moment. Ping pong over letter writing=study over barbershop. The song at the end was perfect. 

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, Valny said:

I actually thought they'd have their wigs become bigger and bigger as the song went on but it didn't go that way.

Same here, and I was disappointed it didn't go that way. Hee. That aside, the last song was really good, and the staging was hilarious. The dancer, Paula doing a high kick at the keyboard, everything. With both Paula and Rebecca wanting the other to make the first move, I wonder who will break. Looks like we'll find out in the next episode in January, from the promos.

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Paula is working and going to school on top of being a wife and mother (aka cooking, cleaning, etc) so I don't think it would kill someone else in the family to do laundry.

That bugged me, too. Household chores can be done by anyone. Paula was working full-time before she started law school, so she shouldn't have had to do it all anyway.

[zibnchy]

The random woman dancer in the power ballad reminded me most of the dancer(s) in the 1987 Rick Astley video "Never Gonna Give You Up". The rickrolling song.

[kathe5133]

I think this is just me, but this episode contained everything I hate in sitcoms.  Hurting a pet.  Having the hurting being caught on video.  Thank the lord the cat wasn't dead, but then we have our heroes breaking in to steal the video.   It wracks my nerves in a way I don't enjoy!  I was afraid they would get caught.   Then Paula and her husband.  I knew as soon as he started talking about his barber shop group that there would be a performance, Paula would miss it, and he would be hurt.  I couldn't focus on the scene with Paula and Sunil cause I knew she was missing it!  More wracked nerves!  Then of course there is Scott's (is that his name?) coworker, who kind of resembles Paula, or is at least a "Paula type", who obviously has the hots for Scott and doesn't care that's he's married........  I was relieved when the credits rolled.  I didn't think it was a horrible episode, I did enjoy some parts...  As a kid, I HATED I Love Lucy.  Now Lucille Ball is a brilliant comedic talent as was the entire cast.  It was considered renowned, groundbreaking television.  Everyone loves Lucy!  Not me.  She was always plotting behind Ricky's back.  My 5 year old self would be watching in angst, knowing Ricky would be mad.  Or, she's fighting with Fred and Ethel!  More angst for the 5 year old!  I was an adult before I could appreciate the program and understand why I didn't like it as a child.  Same feelings with this episode.  

Of course I'll keep watching, but I've had my fill of Rebecca and Valencia "Thelma and Louiseying" (hated that movie too, are you surprised?) through an episode.  I miss Greg!

[AnnaRose]

Anna annoyed me went she went on about finding out who caused the injury to her cat and tracking them down and making them pay.  Look in the mirror dumb-ass.  You're the one who let the cat out into the street.  How was a driver supposed to see it underneath the car?  I hate when people pass the blame like that and want to punish someone else for what was clearly an unintentional accident that wasn't really their fault.

That said, I enjoyed Anna's cyber-stalking song and thought it was very funny.  

The Rebecca, Valencia and Heather friend group is the best.  I hope they remain friends long term.  Also, I'm glad Rebecca and Valencia didn't get caught breaking and entering.  That whole sequence made me nervous, but it was also pretty hilarious.

I thought Scott was being kind of unreasonable considering how demanding law school is, and that's on top of Paula working full time and being a wife and mother.  I missed exactly what he said about his shirt because I was so distracted when he said 'upside-down', which seemed to be a blooper, instead of 'inside-out'.  (How could one wear a shirt upside down?)  Also...do your own damn laundry, Scott!  Men who feign ignorance because they don't want to take care of their own chores and responsibilities are super annoying.  It's not rocket science.

Edited December 11, 2016 by AnnaRose

[Rinaldo]

1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

I continue to love the Rebecca-Valencia-Heather threesome... Though I am honestly just waiting for their friendship to collapse, once Paula and Rebecca find their way back to each other. Let's hope I'm wrong.

I'm feeling that the more likely reason for a Rebecca-Valencia friendship to collapse is their realization, after the initial surge of shared resentment of Josh (plus more complicated reactions), they don't really have a whole lot in common and not much to build a real friendship on. Though the show could surprise me again there (as they have before, always being two steps ahead of me), and go with the idea that Valencia never having had many female friendships, she'd hang on to this one. We'll see.

[tennisgurl]

I enjoyed both of the songs, the social media song for the lyrics (and I love Brittany Snow) and the power ballad for being a pretty kickass power ballad. I assume Paula and Rebecca will come back together right before break, hopefully with running to each other while dramatic music plays in the background. 

I hope Heather/Valencia/Rebecca can continue being friends, even when Paula and Rebecca and Paula get back together. Its nice for Rebecca to have other friends, maybe it will help the Paula/Rebecca co-dependency issues. 

Paula and Rebecca clearly bonded over binge watching shows tv critics worship, and being really self centered!

[theatremouse]

24 minutes ago, AnnaRose said:

I missed exactly what he said about his shirt because I was so distracted when he said 'upside-down', which seemed to be a blooper, instead of 'inside-out'.  (How could one wear a shirt upside down?)  Also...do your own damn laundry, Scott!  

They were talking about underwear. He was saying he was wearing a shirt upside down as underwear, because he had no clean underwear. 

[Navianna]

And this was an episode worth waiting for :D I couldn't enjoy the previous one, it just didn't seem funny or interesting in any other way, just the "Stuck in the Bathroom" song was great. But 2x07 was much better, especially the 80's ballad. I miss Rebecca & Paula's friendship but I know in some episode they'll work things out. Meanwhile I'm enjoying watching how great Rebecca & Valencia are getting along, quite surprising after the 1st season. I would have never expected V to become another crazy ex-girlfriend. Poor Heather, she doesn't get them cause she's not an ex. Well, not Josh's at least (which I shouldn't mention cause it can make me go on and on about how I miss Greg) .  Anyways, great episode, can't wait till January for the next one.

[AnnaRose]

2 hours ago, theatremouse said:

They were talking about underwear. He was saying he was wearing a shirt upside down as underwear, because he had no clean underwear. 

Thank you for posting that.  I had the volume turned way down because I watched it late and family members were sleeping, (plus I was distracted) so I didn't really catch the whole thing except for wearing his shirt upside down which I thought was so odd.  Now I understand why. ;)  I really should have rewound that part.

[GenieinTX]

Overall, I thought the episode was way too much hijinks.  It really turned me off. 

But I think You Go First is the best song they have done in the whole series.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzHJlOmuYsY

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Songs from this episode:

 

 

7 hours ago, zibnchy said:

The random woman dancer in the power ballad reminded me most of the dancer(s) in the 1987 Rick Astley video "Never Gonna Give You Up". The rickrolling song.

I respectfully disagree. The backup dancers in the Rick Astley video were basically doing step touch, step touch, with some posing thrown in every once in a while which anyone with the smallest bit of coordination can do. The dancer in the "You Go First" video did a split leap, pirouette, grand battement combination as well as a front walkover and an aerial cartwheel, all of which are technical dance skills. I think she was a slight homage to Tawny Kitaen in the Whitesnake videos (I remember how impressed people were that she did a front walkover on the cars).

[txhorns79]

I just love that it's not stalking because the information is technically public, along with "Ooops, it's three days later."  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When I saw the clip released for this episode where Valencia said Rebecca wouldn't let her create a fake Instagram account to stalk Anna, I was like whoa, has Rebecca turned over a new leaf since her days of stalking Josh and Valencia? Because old Rebecca wouldn't have thought twice about making up a name and trying to friend someone on IG or FB. But after I saw the episode and realized that they were talking about impersonating someone from Anna's high school, I was like whoa, yeah, that's crossing a line. Haha, but paying $9.99 for that in depth search is okay, right? It's good to know there are some lines that Rebecca doesn't want to cross.

Another thing I found interesting is that Rebecca and Valencia were clearly in awe of Anna after their internet stalking. They referred to themselves as mere mortals and Anna as a super cool beautiful fairy angel. But remember when Rebecca first saw Valencia at the convenience store and then she found out she was a yoga teacher and she was totally intimidated by her too? I think it's normal to see everything about the other person as so much better/more interesting than you are because all you see are your flaws and the ways that you're different from this other person.

Edited December 11, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Snarklepuss]

The 80's big hair number took a lot of elements from typical Pat Benatar videos of the 1980s, down to the hairstyle, blue light and mist.

I think Paula's husband is being a little hard on her.  Working full time, being a mother, running a household and going to grad. school is a TREMENDOUS amount of work.  I did all of that without being a mother and it was hard enough.  I had no social life for 2 years and my house looked like a bomb hit it, but Mr. Snarkle was much more of an adult about it.  After all, I suffered through him going to law school before that!

I always felt that Paula's and Rebecca's friendship was real despite Rebecca's lapses into self absorption.  Real friends forgive each other for that.  Real husbands do too.  Scott needs to grow up.

[hogwash]

Anyone else feel like Paula's husband story is really cliche? That is if they're going where I think they are with that female coworker. I rolled my eyes when she popped up. I feel like every show has their middle-aged "boring" couple go through this storyline. Have a random ass coworker who ~appreciates~ and ~understands~ him/her in ways the spouse doesn't. Plus, didn't they already kinda do this with Paula in S01??? I know that tons of shows do this storyline but all that comes to mind is Dale and the female exterminator on King of the Hill and Marge/Homer on the Simpsons for some reason.  That's weird... 

Anyway, I liked this episode. Weird that Valencia is doing what Rebecca did to her to another woman but I always like the over-the-top scheming. I LOVED the "You Go First" song. 

[angora]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When I saw the clip released for this episode where Valencia said Rebecca wouldn't let her create a fake Instagram account to stalk Anna, I was like whoa, has Rebecca turned over a new leaf since her days of stalking Josh and Valencia? Because old Rebecca wouldn't have thought twice about making up a name and trying to friend someone on IG or FB. But after I saw the episode and realized that they were talking about impersonating someone from Anna's high school, I was like whoa, yeah, that's crossing a line. Haha, but paying $9.99 for that in depth search is okay, right? It's good to know there are some lines that Rebecca doesn't want to cross.

Plus, she can't afford to go to jail right now because she's almost earned a free yogurt with her punch card!  Ha!

I thought both songs were really great this week.  Anna's was hilarious, and Rebecca and Paula's was perfect.  That dancer!

I love the Rebecca-Valencia-Heather friend group.  Even though Heather is still mainly in kind of a deadpan-Greek-chorus role, she does feel better integrated, and this plotline has done wonders for Valencia.  She feels so much more like a real character now - I like seeing her navigate what it's like to have female friends.  It was also good to see her going down the same rabbit hole as Rebecca re: the Anna stalking.  They already touched on this in "Why is Josh's Ex-Girlfriend Eating Carbs?", but it demonstrates nicely that no one is immune to those feelings of insecurity, and just like Rebecca was once in awe of Valencia and how "cool" she was compared to Becs, Valencia is now doing the same thing with Anna.

Speaking of insecurity, it's interesting to see Josh being kind of Rebecca-lite in his new relationship, over-eager and trying to dance around the fact that he doesn't feel like he belongs in Anna's overly-complicated-coffee hipster world.  I cracked up when Anna was all, "Josh, what did you do?" and he completely misunderstood and said, "Oh - I got you a present!  Sorry, I thought I made that clear!"  Those kinds of dumb-Josh lines make me laugh so much more than the "his favorite animal is Antarctica" ones.  The latter are too cartoon-stupid for my tastes, but the former are just cluelessly-earnest enough to work for me.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yes, I loved that Rebecca's reason for not wanting to go to jail now was that impending free yogurt (as opposed to just wanting to avoid jail on principle).

One realistic aspect that I appreciated this week was how both Rebecca and Valencia claimed they were glad to be Josh-free and could list plenty of negative things about him, but each time they ended up remembering things they liked about him. Logically they know they're okay without him but there are still things about him that they liked and miss, which is totally normal. 

[kieyra]

The 80s dancer evoked Whitesnake videos for me, but I was mostly getting Heart during their 80s big-hair years from the entire bit. I'm pretty sure the kick came from Nancy Wilson. 

[Empress1]

On 12/10/2016 at 10:08 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

But I will admit that I got annoyed when he said he was wearing an upside down t-shirt instead of underwear because Paula had been too busy to do laundry and he didn't know how to use the washing machine. It's not rocket science, dude. I started doing my own laundry when I was ten years old. New machines are even easier. Dump your clothes in with some detergent. Press the biggest button on the machine. Paula is working and going to school on top of being a wife and mother (aka cooking, cleaning, etc) so I don't think it would kill someone else in the family to do laundry.

22 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I think Paula's husband is being a little hard on her.  Working full time, being a mother, running a household and going to grad. school is a TREMENDOUS amount of work.  I did all of that without being a mother and it was hard enough.  I had no social life for 2 years and my house looked like a bomb hit it, but Mr. Snarkle was much more of an adult about it.  After all, I suffered through him going to law school before that!

I always felt that Paula's and Rebecca's friendship was real despite Rebecca's lapses into self absorption.  Real friends forgive each other for that.  Real husbands do too.  Scott needs to grow up.

Totally agree with both. My mother taught me to do laundry in fifth grade; she has done my laundry exactly one time since then and that's only because I was recovering from surgery. My brother, same deal. Everyone in Paula's house is old enough to do their own laundry. This is the time when Paula's family should be picking up the slack to help her. I worked full-time while earning my MBA and that was really hard, and I was single!

The hipster coffee place was perfect...ly pretentious, from the coffee portrait to the stupid long list of coffees to the barista named Ichabod with his carefully sculpted facial hair.

People fight realistically on this show, which I appreciate. Scott was mad, said so, and was still mad when they got home. Paula and Rebecca wanted to make up but aren't there yet. Both are realistic. Relationships are messy. Same with how Rebecca and Valencia acknowledged the bad stuff about Josh but also the good. Just because you shouldn't be with someone doesn't mean that they stop having qualities you liked or loved.

I legit don't weigh myself. Even when I go to the doctor, I weigh myself facing backwards and tell them not to say the number. I struggled with disordered eating in my teens and early 20s and don't want to backslide. I have a good relationship with food and fitness now, and I think part of that is because I don't focus on the scale's number.

[possibilities]

I don't understand how you can wear a tshirt upside down as underwear. I'm imagining you use the armholes for your legs. But doesn't that mean all the parts you most want to cover are exposed by the neck hole? Dangling?

[dungeonwriter]

You know, after Rebecca's rabbit hole (yes, it's Valencia's too), I see Greg sitting at Emory and having a chill and thinking "She's doing something stupid. I can feel it" and just shrugging and going back to work. 

Seriously, the fact that Scott or the Proctor kids can't do a load of laundry kinda sickens me. Seriously, not that hard to do. 

Paula and Rebecca may miss each other, but they do need to stop feeding into the worst of each other's tendencies.  

[Irlandesa]

On 12/10/2016 at 0:13 PM, AnnaRose said:

I thought Scott was being kind of unreasonable considering how demanding law school is, and that's on top of Paula working full time and being a wife and mother. 

I see both sides of this. Paula is under a lot of pressure.  But still, it was one event.  One important event to him.  He was angry but I didn't find it to be over-the-top.  I think he can both understand she's uner a lot of pressure and be disappointed she couldn't find the time for this. It's not like she never has time to do "fun" stuff.

And I do think the show has given us a lot of Scott being supportive to varying degrees of success.  He was very encouraging of Paula to go back to school to the point of bringing up an abortion.  And he did try to cook--badly.  Yes, he should know how to do laundry but I can see how that duty still might fall onto Paula if he thinks he's terrible at it and she wants it done a certain way.  I've known a few couples who move in together and the person who ends up taking over the duties is the one who cares more that it be done a certain way.

[kieyra]

27 minutes ago, dungeonwriter said:

You know, after Rebecca's rabbit hole (yes, it's Valencia's too), I see Greg sitting at Emory and having a chill and thinking "She's doing something stupid. I can feel it" and just shrugging and going back to work. 

Seriously, the fact that Scott or the Proctor kids can't do a load of laundry kinda sickens me. Seriously, not that hard to do. 

Paula and Rebecca may miss each other, but they do need to stop feeding into the worst of each other's tendencies.  

Yeah, the housework stuff is annoying. I admittedly have a lot of baggage about it. (I'm female and I've been working full time my entire adult life and have lost countless hours of my life to fights over housework. One ex point-blank told me his free time was worth more than mine because he made more money.)

It's weird that Paula isn't calling him out on it. Seems like a throwback situation for such a progressive show. The situation itself is totally realistic (working women and mothers still do a massively disproportionate amount of housework), but it not being called out for the bullshit that it is bugs. Maybe we're building up to it.

(Also: anyone can learn to cook basic meals. Really. It's not that much harder than running a load of laundry.)

To any Moms reading this, l implore you to teach your sons that housework is everyone's job. 

End soapbox.

[Phishbulb]

On 12/10/2016 at 0:46 AM, Valny said:

Did not care for Anna's song, it had a few funny parts but it I need more melody to my songs.

On Twitter Rachel said that Anna's song was kind of inspired by Selena Gomez's "Good For You", and now that I know that I can kinda hear it, sorta breath-y and hypnotic and repetitive. 

[stillshimpy]

Quote

 thought Scott was being kind of unreasonable considering how demanding law school is, and that's on top of Paula working full time and being a wife and mother.  I missed exactly what he said about his shirt because I was so distracted when he said 'upside-down', which seemed to be a blooper, instead of 'inside-out'.  (How could one wear a shirt upside down?)  Also...do your own damn laundry, Scott!  Men who feign ignorance because they don't want to take care of their own chores and responsibilities are super annoying.  It's not rocket science.

 

 

 

I thought Scott was being a full-on child about just about everything in this episode.  He's a grown ass man, do the fucking laundry.  Zounds.  Then also, I get having interests, passions, pursuits, but Paula is going to law school while working full-time.  Becoming a lawyer stands to benefit their entire family and it's not like she stood him up for reconstructive surgery.  He's not a twelve-year-old who can pout if his busy parent couldn't make his recital.  He's a grown man, who should be able to (and here I pause to interject once more, do the fucking laundry himself, oh my god, I think I turned purple over that one) understand that it is swell that he has a hobby to keep him entertained and occuppied, as well as happy but Paula is not pursuing a hobby.  She's doing something fulfilling for herself and she doesn't need him to sit there and stare at her as she soaks up the law.   It really isn't unusual in healthy relationships for people to have their own areas of focus.  

He knew damned well she had an incredibly good reason for needing to be elsewhere.  She works full-time.  When we met these characters Paula and Scott were unhappily married, hence Paula nearly having an affair.  So a bigger problem with a man in his forties needing his wife to watch him sing is not just that she had an incredibly valid reason for being unable to attend, it's that we've no reason to believe that has been a constant in their marriage.  Mandatory attendance is a strange thing to institute the moment your works-full-time wife goes back to school at night.  

The B story was really the thing that held my attention here, although I kind of love watching Valencia and Rebecca off on their mad adventures, I liked the B story revealing that Paula has a few cracks of her own.   She was already prone to being a bit obsessive -- Paula was the one who wouldn't let go of the concept of Josh even when Rebecca was trying to and she pitched a protracted fit over Rebecca being with Greg because of what it would mean for her pursuit of Josh -- so we've seen her fixated before, but the show made me do  a 180 flip on Sunil into liking him.  I just felt terrible for the guy, who clearly would like to have someone in his life to talk to about a huge source of pain and I was cringing on Paula's behalf. 

However, the show does tend to do things intentionally so I'm assuming Scott's reign of manchild horror is for a reason, including that his relationship with Paula was practically at  DNR status when we met them, so the show is purposefully illustrating some of the reasons that was the case in the past.  So I'm guessing they are building up that side of the story, that it really wasn't that easy to fix the rift in their marriage and that Scott wasn't quite as blameless as it first appeared.   Seriously, a grown ass man looking at a pile of laundry reaching to the ceiling , with a wife that works full-time and is going to law school and it doens't occur to him, "I should do this, I don't know how....but thankfully youtube will teach you how to do any fucking thing at this juncture, so to the Howcast I ride!"

There is no way in the entire world and well into the beyond that a show written by feminists is unaware of how appalling that was.  Although poor Paula isn't entirely off the hook here because that's something she ought to mention.  "Oh, yeah, I've been busy.  Throw a few loads in tonight, please.  You can fold them as you watch TV.  Thank you!"  It does go both ways.  

Josh's new girlfriend is fun and all, but he's far more into her than she is into him.  So presumably they are all just going to form some pining collective when she moves on to the next cute guy which I have a feeling is her likely M.O.    

To any Moms reading this, l implore you to teach your sons that housework is everyone's job.

Well, that and teach your daughters that also.  If we launch entire generations of young women who know damned well that they aren't descended from House Elves, that's also a good place to dismantle that patriarchal bullshit. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by stillshimpy

[kieyra]

37 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Well, that and teach your daughters that also.  If we launch entire generations of young women who know damned well that they aren't descended from House Elves, that's also a good place to dismantle that patriarchal bullshit. 

Fair point. Spit out the damned red pill.

[dubbel zout]

Paula told Scott she'd be at his performance, so that's why he was angry, and I think he's justified there. If he'd kept harping on her not being there when she said she couldn't be, that's another story.

Scott has no excuse for not doing a load of laundry, though. Gah.

[stillshimpy]

Paula told Scott she'd be at his performance, so that's why he was angry

Yeah, but I genuinely don't understand someone needing a show of support while doing something they love and to my mind, he was going to be pretty safe assuming she was at home trapped underneath the laundry and trying to dig her way out. 

That's what bothered me about it, double zout, it felt childish to me that he didn't get that she simply had other things she had to do.  Now, Paula's not off the hook in my mind either, because nothing was stopping her from voicing any of that.  

Having said all of that, as immature as I found his insistence and anger about her needing to be there, I also thought he had a stunning and simple point at the end:  It wasn't about assigning blame or accepting it, the hurt would still be there.  I just felt it was unreasonable to make the request in the first place because he knows her schedule.  She should have just said, "Oh, love you!  I hope it goes well, but I have to hit the books....for about the next three years, so here's hoping you can shore up your emotional autonomy for a bit!"  

[dubbel zout]

28 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

I just felt it was unreasonable to make the request in the first place because he knows her schedule.

So Scott shouldn't expect any support for the next three years? That seems unreasonable to me, as well as unfair. He wasn't asking her to go away for a weekend. He was asking for a couple of hours at the most. She just had to be there while he sang.

32 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

I also thought he had a stunning and simple point at the end:  It wasn't about assigning blame or accepting it, the hurt would still be there.

I loved that. 

[stillshimpy]

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So Scott shouldn't expect any support for the next three years? That seems unreasonable to me, as well as unfair. He wasn't asking her to go away for a weekend. He was asking for a couple of hours at the most. She just had to be there while he sang.

 

 

 

Not in the form of mandatory attendance at an event that should be pure fun for him, at least.  Again, it's not something someone needs support in doing unless they are a developing person.  I mean, it's possible that my husband and I are just super-autonomous, but we were both aghast that the rules that ought to be applied to an eighth grader's concert were being applied to the hobby of a grown ass man (who was ignoring the damned laundry, to complete the "I'm a child!" of it all) .  So yeah, support for things that might reasonably need to be supported in a fellow adult is one thing.  Needing someone to go for a surgical consult, as a for instance, would be another one where I think it would be reasonable to expect spousal emotional support, but on the "I just want you here to share in my joy" thing....?  

No, I don't think that is a reasonable expectation for an adult a spouse knows is over-extended for good reasons.   I'd say the same thing if the genders were reversed, by the way.   It's not a case of "no support for three years!"  it's a case of recognizing that being as autonomous as humanly possible would be something that helps them both.  

Clearly, I just can't wrap my head around someone needing to have someone there to watch a performance....knowing darned well she has not one, but two full-time commitments as it is and maybe being a little more cognizant of that (while doing the fucking laundry, good lord) might be his way of showing support to her because that was the other damned thing.  He couldn't take upon himself to do chores that obviously needed to be done. 

He wanted support without providing it, is another  bone of contention.  

Edited December 12, 2016 by stillshimpy

[dubbel zout]

16 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Needing someone to go for a surgical consult, as a for instance, would be another one where I think it would be reasonable to expect spousal emotional support, but on the "I just want you here to share in my joy" thing....?

It was important to Scott that Paula be there. Shouldn't that be enough? And again, Paula said she'd be there. She wasn't. That is why Scott was angry.

19 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

He wanted support without providing it, is another bone of contention.

Scott could definitely do more around the house, but he does support her. He was totally on board with her applying for law school. He took care of her after she had the abortion. Things are unequal between them, yes, but they're still adjusting to the new reality. 

[stillshimpy]

It was important to Scott that Paula be there. Shouldn't that be enough? And again, Paula said she'd be there. She wasn't. That is why Scott was angry.

No. I don't think that's enough.  "I want you there" competing against the obvious (and again, the man KNEW that there was a mountain of chores at home) that she really didn't have time, is not a reasonable expectation, to my mind.  He shouldn't have asked without helping to clear that responsibility deck, for starters, but he wanted her there in a capacity to watch him and take pride in him.  That's fine, if she had the time.  He should know better, he is as stated, a grown ass man.  

Now, I don't entirely disagree with you, because I think Paula needs to own her stuff and use her words and a bunch of other, "Oh my god, really?" type of things.  She shouldn't have said she would be there.  She should have clearly told him, "I love you, I'm proud of you.  I'm sure someone will record it and I look forward to being able to watch it....when I have time....which I do not right now.  Also, let me introduce you to my friend Tide and his good buddy, the washer....follow me." 

But I am, like Heather, a direct communicator.   Paula needs to get busy voicing her own needs and the sentence should start with some form of "Take responsibility for your own underwear, as a first move...."  

There was so, so much in this episode that felt like it had to be designed to make Scott look like a child.  Paula shouldn't have said yes in the first place, she is responsible for that and she did owe him an apology.  It's just, he also owes her a long one that starts with (can anyone guess where I'm going with this? I will bet you all can) "I'm sorry, the least I can do is the (OH MY GOD) laundry....would you walk me through it once? "  

I think that's part of why I'm stuck on the needs of a twelve-year-old in this instance.  "Look at me at my concert!"  combined with an inability to figure out "I should do the laundry" added to, "Okay, admittedly, she is working full-time while going to law school in addition to that....maybe I should recognize that this isn't a good time to need hand-holding through something not at all arduous!"  

[possibilities]

I totally agree about the laundry, and about her working and going to school at the same time, etc. But Paula wasn't studying or doing work for her job either. She was obsessing about Rebecca and leaning on Sunil. She is really as self-absorbed and obsessive and avoidant as Rebecca, she just manifests it in a slightly different way.

I also think the teenagers ought to be doing chores, not just laundry, but they can also cook sometimes. It's not that hard, and there are plenty of recipes that will take you through it step by step. Or you can do something easy and idiot-proof. I had a single working mom and I learned how to cook early on. I also did my own laundry. And it was not only not a big deal but it set me up to function on my own, which made leaving home a smooth transition when it came time to do so.

Basically, I think everyone in the situation has some growing up to do, and I love that the show is portraying how one person being wrong doesn't mean the other person is right, that there is a lot of growing to do in a lot of different places and they all need to do it.

I did very much like how he was able to say he was hurt, and needed time to cool off. I thought that was actually a fairly mature way of handling his feelings, whether or not he was partly at fault in the situation. Paula said she was sorry, but I wasn't convinced she meant it more than that she was just trying to shut down the discomfort of the conflict, and if he'd just accepted it and moved on they wouldn't really have addressed any of the things that led to the problem in the first place. Sometimes you have to stay upset until you really fix something, and it's not enough to just let it go. I think the problems in their marriage are not the kind that go away just because you acknowledge that you didn't mean to hurt each other. They both need to look at what they're really doing and why.

[stillshimpy]

13 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Basically, I think everyone in the situation has some growing up to do, and I love that the show is portraying how one person being wrong doesn't mean the other person is right, that there is a lot of growing to do in a lot of different places and they all need to do it.

I did very much like how he was able to say he was hurt, and needed time to cool off. I thought that was actually a fairly mature way of handling his feelings, whether or not he was partly at fault in the situation.

 

I really liked that, also.  Just like in real life, more than one thing can be true at once.  Scott was in the wrong at points, Rebecca was in the wrong at others, sometimes those moments were not mutually exclusive.   Same thing with being in the right.  I also liked that Scott didn't lash out at Paula, at all.  I didn't find his expectations reasonable, but I did admire how he handled being upset and ultimately, felt he nailed it in one with his final words.  He let her know how he was feeling without in any way tearing her down.  It was awesome.  

Paula had been studying, then she started obsessing and then, in the most "oh...oof...yup, point taken" thing out of all of that, only when Sunil has verbally asked for her ear, does her mind wander to the things she's supposed to be doing.   That was the hat-trick on self-involvement.   

[Irlandesa]

12 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

Not in the form of mandatory attendance at an event that should be pure fun for him, at least.  Again, it's not something someone needs support in doing unless they are a developing person.  I mean, it's possible that my husband and I are just super-autonomous, but we were both aghast that the rules that ought to be applied to an eighth grader's concert were being applied to the hobby of a grown ass man (who was ignoring the damned laundry, to complete the "I'm a child!" of it all) .  So yeah, support for things that might reasonably need to be supported in a fellow adult is one thing.  Needing someone to go for a surgical consult, as a for instance, would be another one where I think it would be reasonable to expect spousal emotional support, but on the "I just want you here to share in my joy" thing....?  

Aren't those happy moments of sharing joy as important as the dreaded surgical consults? This was a one-time holiday party during which he was going to get to show off.  He wanted his wife to be there to see him.  It was going to be a night out for them and he felt proud of what he could do and wanted to have his wife be proud of him too.  Given how busy she is, those couple moments become even more valuable.

11 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

She shouldn't have said she would be there.  She should have clearly told him, "I love you, I'm proud of you.  I'm sure someone will record it and I look forward to being able to watch it....when I have time....which I do not right now. 

Her free time might be more limited than it used to be but she does have the time.  Last week she had a "girls night out" with Rebecca.  The week before she got up to shenanigans and coffee with Sunil.  She was studying here but also obsessing over Rebecca.  So she has some time and it's up to her to decide how to spend it.  In this instance, she told Scott she'd spend it with him.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Irlandesa

[femmefan1946]

electric boogaloo - Just to be pedantic, there are two dancers in that Rick Astley video, as well as a couple of girls posing and wiggling.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I didn't mention the male dancers in the Rick Astley video for a few reasons. The main one was that "You Go First" was a tribute to power ballads by hair bands, and when those videos included dancers, they were female dancers doing what we would refer to as contemporary dance now (but used to be called lyrical jazz back in the 80s/90s). Power ballads by hair bands did not have videos with male dancers or the style of dancing that those two male dancers were doing in the Rick Astley video (at least not to my recollection, but I could be forgetting any that did). I didn't see any real comparison between the two male dancers in the Rick Astley video and the dancer in "You Go First" which is why I only mentioned the female dancers. To be honest, I just didn't see any real comparison between any of the dancers in the RA video and the dancer in this week's video. I was just responding to someone else comparing the dancer in white to the dancers in the RA video.

As for Scott and Paula, marriage is about supporting each other. Scott has been supportive of Paula's decisions (having an abortion, going to law school - his apparent inability to do laundry notwithstanding) and I think Paula is supportive of his singing group in theory, which is as it should be. Even if you have no interest in your significant other's hobbies, it's still nice to be supportive. My husband is in a whiskey/bourbon group and I honestly don't know jack about either, but I am as supportive of it as I can be without actually participating (I high five him if he manages to score a rare bottle, I encourage him to go to the tastings/outings that his group plans, and I've gone to a handful of their events to meet some of the other guys).

But as a performer, I think it's a little bit different. Thankfully, Mr. EB has always been 100% supportive of my decision to perform, even though it meant a lot of my free time was taken up. He never once complained about the late nights, the weekend rehearsals, etc. I was working a full time job during the day and performing/teaching part time which meant I taught once night a week (and due to the studio's availability, the class ended at 10pm so I didn't get home until almost 11pm on a work night), I had rehearsal two nights a week, and I was performing an average of 1-2 times per week, both on the weekends and on weeknights. He came to as many performances as he could (sometimes I wasn't allowed to bring him, sometimes he had other commitments).

It meant a lot to me to have him there in the audience, as well as after a performance. And, not to sound totally obnoxious or full of myself, but getting to see me do my thing as a skilled performer is a lot more entertaining than sitting through a tiny tot soccer game or a two hour long dance recital of 8 year olds (both of which I have also done) where it's basically a bunch of unskilled kids running around. It didn't hurt my feelings if he didn't go to a performance, but it meant a lot to me when he did. And if he had told me he was going to come to a performance and then he didn't show up because he was just gabbing with his friend and lost track of time, I would have been a little bit annoyed.

I think one of the reasons it was important to Scott that she attend this particular performance is twofold: (1) he said this was the first time his group had performed in quite a while and (2) it was in front of his coworkers. My personal experience is that I can perform in front of thousands of strangers and it's not a big deal, but a smaller performance is much more intimidating, especially when it's people you know. I'm sure he wanted to impress his coworkers and seeing her face in the crowd would have made him feel a little more confident. I always knew if I got nervous during a performance, I could find Mr. EB and that alone gave me a little boost. This is all just my personal experience so maybe I'm projecting a little bit. I'm still annoyed that apparently no one else in Paula's house is capable of turning on the washing machine though. It's not rocket science! And if it's just too much information to remember, post the instructions on the wall next to the washing machine (which is what my mom did when she taught my younger sister how to do laundry).

[theatremouse]

For me the issue with Paula missing it has nothing to do with her being busy and juggling a million things and how big a deal or not that singing event was. The point is: she said she was coming. So he assumed she was. It's not like she had an exam or a work meeting and the party were across town and they both knew it was going to be tight and if traffic were unusually bad she'd be late, or some other time-dependent thing. She was at home studying. And yes, doing that is important and time consuming when you're in law school. But she told him she was coming, and studying isn't the sort of thing that is reasonable to "run over" when it's at your own house. She wasn't at an appointment being run by someone else. She wasn't in a lecture. She was supposed to stop studying at a certain time and then leave to come see this, and if she had more studying to do after, so be it. So he has pretty much no reason to cut her any slack. If you are super busy (and being super busy is valid) then you don't promise to show up. But she did say she'd show up and then didn't. That's what makes it a jerk move.

Edited December 13, 2016 by theatremouse

[stillshimpy]

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Aren't those happy moments of sharing joy as important as the dreaded surgical consults?

Yes, but sharing joy and making time for fun moments depends on actually getting the stuff done that needs to be done.  I am not big on conflating wants and needs.  "I want you to be there to share in my joy!" is one thing, "I need you to be there to share in my joy" is....an issue that person needs to address.  Even incredibly happy couples need to find their own personal happiness that is not dependent on the other person.   However, in the "needs" thing, here's the likely deal:  He needed her to show him that he is important.  That his wishes and dreams are as important as hers are.  <----That's a reasonable request it's just that Scott may not be able to choose that precisely what will fulfill that need because there were actual responsibilities that needed to be taken care of AND she had commitments of her own.   

How bad were the "yeah, shit needs to get DONE before we can move into the make everyone happy needs portion of this"?  Bad enough that Scott was wearing an undershirt in a manner that suggests his Wee Willy Winkie was flapping in the breeze through the hole intended for his neck and head.  Nothing says, "You may have other things that have to get done first" than a grown man trying to do anything in the entire world rather than the most obvious, adult reaction to that:  Fuck, I should do some laundry!!  But that isn't what he did.  He created more laundry, in admittedly inventive if moronic way and then gave Paula the stink eye because of the way she let him down.  Which was an "Oh, really??? Let's chat about that motherfucker, shall we?" to me.   Again, there's just no way the show made a point about that more than once by accident and truly, it seemed to be there to indicate that Scott is not exactly being super spouse himself over there.  As for his being supportive of Paula having an abortion, fully granted and acknowledged, it just doesn't trump all else going forward. 

He wanted her there.  There were a lot of reasons that she couldn't be (including Mount fucking Laundry, and yeah to my mind, don't ask for that kind of shit unless you've pitched in on the Needs that keep people from being able to be there for the Wants).  

Paula was in the wrong for agreeing to do something she really couldn't do.  We saw her gabbing with Sunil for less than one minute when it dawned on her that "Oh fuck, I am supposed to be there!!!"  .....and she only made it to the encore.  Meaning, she was studying for most of that concert.   It is actually on Paula to ask for her own stuff.  

"That would be great, but I can't.  Also, I'm dying over here trying to get everything done.  Would you please do the laundry?  The only free time I have right now is non-friggin'-existent" and as for her "girls night" with Rebecca, similarly Rebecca guilted her into doing it and an inability to say a firm and kind "No.  I can't." is actually Paula's responsibility.  

All the "it's good and wonderful and joyous and part of love and isn't it healthy and this is what intimate couples do..." is fine.  Splendid.  Marvy.  It's just there are times in life where responsibilities come first and adult partners do know that and work with it.  

Now, I am among the least emotionally needy people around, but I do get that there's nothing wrong with having emotional needs.  It is just that sometimes, quite often during times such as "going to school and working full-time" that the negotiation doesn't run towards, "How are you going to meet my emotional needs?" but rather, "Okay, this will be tough.  How are we going to get through this together because we are in for a long haul here.  What's a good division of chores in the household?  Get that kid of our in here, there's no reason in the entire world he shouldn't be pitching in, this is potentially a move that will earn his college tuition, so make him a team player."  

I have ZERO sympathy for Scott, in case that isn't visible from space.  What he was asking for could have been reasonable under a bunch of different circumstances and even in these ones....but he'd done diddly over fucking squat to help make it possible by pitching in in a meaningful way  and making Paula feel supported too.  

Paula needs to learn how to say "no" with explanations and without regret.  She also needs to learn to ask for the help she needs in meeting the household responsibilities but most importantly....

Wow, did she just get handed an empathy lesson on how you can really care about someone else, and still let them down at crunch time.  

Rebecca's late letter, anyone?  Object lesson! Ho!  

Then the show did something pretty brilliant with that last line from Scott:  They showed that he does have the emotional maturity and understanding of his own feelings to have participated in all of the negotiations that needed to take place long prior to Paula's time management failure.   

So ultimately, it's pretty much Paula's fault in my eyes.  She can't expect Scott to be a mind-reader.  Apparently, she's always been the person who did the laundry and the other household chores, it is actually on her to voice why that's changed and to request the help she very clearly needs.   Scott's personality makes it pretty obvious: he'd try.  Sure, there might be some formerly whites-now-pinks in amongst the undershirts and the nights he makes dinner might be ....interesting....but the show is making it clear, he'd try.   Now, when you're out of underwear and laundry is reaching the ceiling, an adult asks if you need help with that, so he's not entirely in the clear.  He was being obtuse in his own way. 

It's Paula who needs to get a lot better at saying what she means and stating what she needs.  Scott did.  That ought to be enough.  Unfortunately, since he was the only team member doing that, it wasn't.  I am looking forward to the ways in which they will address this all.  

Edited December 14, 2016 by stillshimpy

[kieyra]

I guess the fact that we're having to unpack this so thoroughly shows they did a good job of portraying one of the fundamental ways in which relationships break down. 

That said, I'm with shimpy in that the basic problem is that Paula's family has unreasonable expectations of her, and Scott is a useless man-child. I suppose it IS on Paula to reclaim some of her own "needs", since obviously her family has been trained to let her take care of theirs exclusively. In real life, that would NOT be an easy transition for either side.

(Again, I may have my own baggage.)

But it's not as simple as "she said she'd be there so she should have been there".  It goes down to "Scott shouldn't have insisted in the first place"--and Paula should have had the freedom (and will) to decline. She obviously didn't believe it was an option available to her.

[whiporee]

23 hours ago, kieyra said:

That said, I'm with shimpy in that the basic problem is that Paula's family has unreasonable expectations of her, and Scott is a useless man-child. I suppose it IS on Paula to reclaim some of her own "needs", since obviously her family has been trained to let her take care of theirs exclusively. In real life, that would NOT be an easy transition for either side.

If it were real life, it would be less funny. Because of course Scott would do enough laundry to make sure he had underwear. And if Paula blew his thing off to gossip with her classmate, she'd actually be feeling bad about it. It's what humans do when they blow off things that have been shown to be important by their partner. 

But in real life, Paula's decision to go to law school would actually carry a lot more selfishness than it's shown here. First, law school is flat out expensive. Hell, books are expensive, so Scott would have agreed to write off that cost for the family. Second, there's no guarantee of a job when she gets out -- and getting out is a long, long, long three years away. So they've taken on debt that will nearly impossible to pay back given 1) Paula's age and therefore relatively short time in the workforce 2) the tightening job market for recent law-school grads and 3) the delta between what she was making versus what she could be making as a first-year associate. And then factor in the hours first-year associates are supposed to carry and all of that adds up to a net loss for Paula's family. 

In addition, most families have separation of duties. Scott might be responsible for the lawn, or home repair, or whatever. I don't think he's being jerky for not doing more laundry to compensate for Paula's decision to go back to very expensive school and dedicate all of her waking hours to something that is fundamentally only going to benefit her self esteem. He's doing what he can to be as supportive as he can be. 

At least for me, being married has meant doing a lot of shit I didn't want to do, and sometimes putting what makes my wife happy over what i want to do. It's part of the trade off, and I don't think Scott's being the least bit jerky in asking her for this one thing, because she's been asking him for a whole lot more. It's not selfish to ask your partner to occasionally indulge you, and since he's been shown indulging her, it's certainly not out of line. That she chose not to respect the one thing he asked for -- no matter how stupid she found it to be -- shows that things that are important to him are not a priority to her. That's too bad. 

[kieyra]

The problem with fanwanking that Scott takes care of other things outside of the cooking, cleaning, laundry and parenting is that the show hasn't shown us him doing any of those things. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by kieyra

[theatremouse]

If it were real, and he were as stumped on laundry as he claimed, he'd have stopped at a store on his way home from work and purchased new underwear.

[Irlandesa]

45 minutes ago, kieyra said:

The problem with fanwanking that Scott takes care of other things outside of the cooking, cleaning, laundry and parenting is that the show hasn't shown us him doing any of those things. 

They did.  They showed him doing it badly but when Paula wasn't sure if she could fit law school in with everything else, he was shown trying to cook as a way to demonstrate that he could help out more. What he made was raw. Or burnt it was made explicit this is something he thought he could do. 

How they got from there to the laundry in this episode was never fully explained.   Maybe Scott said he was willing but never followed through.  Maybe he tried and because he was bad at it, Paula shut him down.  Maybe they divided household duties and laudnry was one of hers. 

This show is so deliberate so hopefully we'll find out but until then, we don't know if any of the theories is right or if they're all wrong.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Irlandesa