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S04.E11: The Outsider

formerlyfreedom

By formerlyfreedom
in Vikings

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MaggieG

MaggieG

I completely agree about Fimmel. His reactions to things are always on point. When he met Astrid and Lagertha walked in (with her owl!) he gave her kind of a wtf expression. I think he was just confused by Astrid, but it made me laugh. I'm not sure if I like or trust Astrid yet, we'll have to see.

Of the sons, I liked Ubbe the best. The other two kind of blend together and then of course, we have Ivar. Crawling around like a creepo spying on his brothers getting nooky.

Random thought, all of them had super blue eyes, especially Ivar. I know Travis has amazing blue eyes, I wonder if they cast actors with blue eyes or if they are wearing contacts.

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BitterApple

BitterApple

2 hours ago, MaggieG said:

 

Random thought, all of them had super blue eyes, especially Ivar. I know Travis has amazing blue eyes, I wonder if they cast actors with blue eyes or if they are wearing contacts.

I think the actors have blue eyes by nature, but they're enhanced with contacts to make them look super bright. Blue contacts have a tendency to look really unnatural on dark eyes and I don't see that with any of the Vikings actors.

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Shermie

Shermie

Fimmel is so amazing, I'm pissed that he (and the show) never get any Emmy love. His acting skills are especially apparent when you see him in an interview, where he's so quiet and bland. Apparently he's very shy, odd for a model/actor.

The actor playing Ubbe looks a lot like Fimmel, so good casting there. He also looks like Will Wheaton.

Some stories say that Ivar was carried into battle on a shield by his brothers and that he was a great warrior. Not being able to walk seems like he'd be easy pickins in a fight, but I guess the others had his back. He must have had great strategy skills or something.

When I saw Lagertha and Astrid together, I thought ABBA. Just me? Okay.

As for ages, if we assume Ragnar and Lagertha were around 30 when the show began, Bjorn was 12 then, I think. Aslaug got pregnant around that time and had the four boys in a row, so we can assume they are 16-20? That would make Bjorn 33-ish and Ragnar and Lagertha in their early 50s. I know, it's the soap opera aging effect, where the younger characters age more rapidly than the older ones.

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Babalooie

Babalooie

Regarding the eye color:  Fimmel does have blue eyes, but I think he's wearing contacts to make them more icy blue.  As for Ivar,  I read somewhere that the bluish tint in the whites of his eyes is consistent with his condition.

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gwhh

gwhh

On 11/30/2016 at 10:34 PM, Babalooie said:

Peridot, Ivar is obvious, but a couple of the other brothers are confusing. Sigurd Snake in the Eye is pretty easy to ID because he's the only blonde. As for the other two, Ubbe has the short hair in front with a braided back and Hvitserk has the light brown (?) long hair parted in the middle. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the details. This will be my cheat sheet for that info 

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Captanne

Captanne

(edited)

I was delighted with the episode -- particularly Fimmel, but I'm predictable.  

I do NOT like Floki or the actor but kudos to him in this episode -- I suddenly saw a complex character rather than a caricature based on Gollum.  This time, Floki was fascinating.  Then again, he got what he wanted all along so maybe he's still shallow as a puddle.  (Nice that Ragnar hasn't forgotten and gave Helga the nod.)  The barest fact that the character prompted me to think at all is light years beyond everything I've seen of him until this episode.

Edited by Captanne
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gwhh

gwhh

(edited)
On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 9:53 AM, FlowerofCarnage said:

Looks like he has no trouble starting the engine, he just can't  keep it running. lol I found it interesting that he was embarrassed that he could not "please a woman". I wonder if there is any historical accuracy to a Viking woman's  sexual pleasure being seen as just as important as a man's. I mean these guys rob, rape, pillage and kill but Odin forbid it gets around town that your sex game is wack. Lol 

 

Viking was into all things that felt good.  War, raiding, drinking and sex.   All that excuse they thought made a person a better warrior!  To be honest.  If you could nto please a woman or a man in the bedroom.  How could you expect to kill someone on the battle field!  Sex between woman.  Heck, yeah.  It made them better lovers to the men and better warriors overall. 

Now rape was different.  Rape on raid, was up to the leader.  It was OK, to rape slaves (mostly).  Servants to non free people in Viking society was no-no.  But it still happened.  But the rape by a Viking or a non-Viking of a fellow Viking free woman.  Was a death penalty thing.  These rules and penalties was open to debate between different groups in the Viking community.  But mostly the rape of free woman was a death sentence.  Often the woman who was the victim would kill the man herself or get a group of Viking (shield maiden) to go with her and kill her attacker.  And it was all legal, under Viking law! 

Edited by gwhh
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TaurusRose

TaurusRose

(edited)

Glad the show is finally back.  I liked getting to know the brothers and seeing their interactions with each other.  I agree it was hard to tell them apart, but I guess it will get easier going forward.  Right now, psychopath or not, Ivar is the most intriguing.  Did not miss England or Paris AT ALL. I'm in the "meh" camp as far as Astrid and Lagertha are concerned.  I personally think Lagertha has enough positive checks on her things to do list without taking on Astrid as a lover, but whatever.  I think Lagertha is aging gracefully and as always I loved her and Ragnar together.  They still have knock-out chemistry.  Floki seems to have mellowed with age, so "yay!" I guess.  I'm glad he did his little maniac laugh at the end; otherwise, I would have thought something was really wrong with him. Gotta say that I love Ragnar's head ink and Bjorn is just Bjorn.  The jury is still out on him.  All in all, a good start to the back half of the season.  

Edited by taurusrose
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jnymph

jnymph

(edited)

Season 1&2 Vikings was by far the best show on TV for me.   IMO Ever since the death of  Athelstan this show has been on a slow downward spiral.

Hate Astrid & her 21st century haircut.

Lagertha's owl was hellishly cool though.

Edited by jnymph
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rozen

rozen

I dunno, it seems Ivar's brothers respect him because if he had two working legs he'd whup all of them. Ubbe sighted that deer head three times before his "look away while holding my arm steady" bs, Ivar looked once and was just as precise. He's just as accurate at axe throwing as Sigurd, and he can't counter weight with his body. He held one position with his sword to a stand still. Ivar is viking as hell, his lack of motility is a goddamn tragedy. He's a shit, but at least he's not a devious shit like Rollo so I'm not mad at him. If he could walk, he would've cut Ragnar down in the first episode in a bizarre display of filial piety. 

I wonder what secret mission Lagertha is planning? The contrast of her rolling around on the hillside with Astrid and looking like a stone cold goddess for Ragnar was hilarious. I wonder if her scouts told her Ragnar was coming and she had Astrid stall him while she got ready? I think it meant a lot for her to hear Ragnar say he wished he'd never left the farm.

Floki has straight up waited his whole life to hear those word. I thought he was die of a stroke then and there. Helga is a saint for loving a man who always kept half of his heart for the one who got away. If Aethelstan and Floki had been women, I feel like viewers would have gotten the spurned lover aspect of it much more easily. Floki's actor has altered the character's accent quite a bit, it threw me for almost all their scenes together.

It's interesting how Ragnar has held the love of so many amazing and talented people, and screwed them all. 

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Captanne

Captanne

(edited)

rozen, I noted above, there is a lot of change the actor has brought to Floki for this past episode -- not just his accent.  The character is still constant in what he wants and can do, but is slightly deeper.  

Then again, in this age of cynicism, maybe he's just "deeper" because he got what he wanted.  Like a snotty five year old having a temper fit over a lollipop.  During the temper fit, you wish he'd take a long walk off a short pier.   Once he gets the object of his obsession in his grabby little hands, he's suddenly someone you want to know more about.  

It's perfectly possible that Ragnar only told him he loves him because Ragnar needs a boat.

Edited by Captanne
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rozen

rozen

3 hours ago, Captanne said:

It's perfectly possible that Ragnar only told him he loves him because Ragnar needs a boat.

Oh, I think Ragnar is totally manipulating Floki and Lagertha, he hit them both right in the gut with what they always wanted to hear, and then left without arguing further. It may be because he's very depressed (and hence the attempted suicide), but it is very counter to standard Ragnar behavior when trying to get something he wants. I am suuuuuper suspicious. 

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gwhh

gwhh

What the Viking view of suicide?  I always got the impression.  It was not a noble death and something that was looked down on.  And the people who did do it, did not get to go to Viking heaven!

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Shermie

Shermie

Quote

Regarding the eye color:  Fimmel does have blue eyes, but I think he's wearing contacts to make them more icy blue.  

I doubt it. His eyes are just as blue on interview shows. Real people do have eyes that blue, my husband is one. It's both beautiful and freaky.

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Captanne

Captanne

(edited)

There is also a phenomenon called "pilot eyes" for those of us who spent our 20s, 30s, and 40s in cockpits up in thin ozone layers.  Blue eyes that are normally grayish (mine), sparkle like you're on something when you've had too much caffeine or are really excited about something.  (My eyes go from hazel at rest to steel grey if I'm tired or very angry.  "Pilot eyes" only happens when I've over-caffeinated.)

 

My guess is that some of the actors are legit and others wear contacts.

ETA:  Attica, my age is showing -- ITA about it being done in post-production.  I'm still so old school that I remember Peter O'Toole's contact lenses in Lawrence of Arabia.  Heh.

Edited by Captanne
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wlk68

wlk68

(edited)

Ivar's eyes are super creepy. Not just the color but because he has to look up at people from under his brows all the time.

Honestly, every time I see him I wonder what his casting tryouts were like. I can only imagine his agent telling him to work on his upper body strength if he truly wanted the job.   

Edited by wlk68
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BitterApple

BitterApple

1 hour ago, wlk68 said:

Ivar's eyes are super creepy. Not just the color but because he has to look up at people from under his brows all the time.

Honestly, every time I see him I wonder what his casting tryouts were like. I can only imagine his agent telling him to work on his upper body strength if he truly wanted the job.   

I was thinking the same. A guy who's spend his life dragging his body weight around with his arms would be pretty ripped. 

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Fimmel just continues to be amazing. His reactions to everything going on around him are just fascinating, and seeing his transformation over the years, and all the different aspects of Ragnars personality is just a sight to see. This episode was "that scene in movies about aging rock stars when they run into young people who tell them how much their parents loved them" scene over and over, and it was really interesting to watch. I can see why they keep not killing Ragnar off. 

Many props to the slave girl for talking her way out of getting killed by Ivar the Creepy. I hope we see her again, she seems to lead a strange life. Liked seeing more of the brothers, they all do look like they could be related to Ragnar and Bjorn. I love how Ragnar reintroduced himself to his kids. DO YOU WANT TO BE KING? KILL ME!!! Classic Ragnar. 

Bjorn is still my favorite. He seemed to have gotten the best parts of both his parents. He clearly got a lot of his mannerisms and ambition from Ragnar, but he also has a strong sense of responsibility and loyalty like Lagatha. I hope we get to see the three of them together again soon. 

Lagatha has a owl AND a girlfriend? Get it girl! And, I know she and Ragnar cant get back together again (way too much has happened), but I just love seeing them together! 

Great to have my favorite Vikings back!

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ghoulina

ghoulina

20 hours ago, gwhh said:

What the Viking view of suicide?  I always got the impression.  It was not a noble death and something that was looked down on.  And the people who did do it, did not get to go to Viking heaven!

No, you definitely wouldn't go to Valhalla if you committed suicide. You had to die in battle. 

I've gotten the same impression as you - it was not a noble death. Viking men WANT to go to Valhalla. Dying in your bed of old age or something was considered a "straw death", not anything special or honorable. I'd think suicide was the same way. They didn't have rules and stuff written down like the Bible, but I'd wager it wasn't something common enough to have written down anyway. If a man is losing in battle, he's still going to keep fighting - because being killed by the ENEMY is going to get you into Valhalla. Falling on your sword isn't. Or if you're lost at sea - keep going, let the sea kill you. It's more honorable.

They also believed strongly in fate. So I can't really see how suicide would factor into that. If you're spared in battle or from a plague of some sort, that means the Gods WANTED you to live. So why cross them?

Obviously when you're in a deep state of depression, you might not be thinking these thoughts. But while I don't think it would have the same stigma as it has in Christianity, I do think it would be looked on as shameful. Beyond the "warrior death" and fate, there is also how harsh conditions were for the Norse. Leaving a family to struggle without you would be pretty shameful as well. If you can contribute, in any way, you do.

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LiveenLetLive

LiveenLetLive

Quote

Fimmel is so amazing, I'm pissed that he (and the show) never get any Emmy love. His acting skills are especially apparent when you see him in an interview, where he's so quiet and bland. Apparently he's very shy,

It is uncanny how different and very young seeming he is in interviews, he is a pretty amazing actor, I don't know why he isn't a huge star.

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millennium

millennium

On 12/1/2016 at 7:32 AM, Babalooie said:

Regarding Ivar's equipment failure, it must have eventually worked.  

Vik-agra.

I had no idea the show was back until just yesterday when I visited PTV's home page and saw the story about the most recent episode.   What a great, bittersweet and foreboding episode.

I thought the 8-year leap would prove awkward but other than my confusion over the sons it was okay.   I like that everyone is more or less still who they were (except of course for the sons, whom I don't like very much).   My heart clenched up when Ragnar said he wishes he never left the farm, as it did when he had that vision in an earlier episode.   It echoes our universal longing to return to younger, simpler days.

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nodorothyparker

nodorothyparker

(edited)

I've been at best a sporadic viewer of this show since Floki murdered Athelstan and I'm still pissed that that oily little shit is still around, but I'm all in to see the focus shift to the sagas of the sons.  

Fimmel continues to be amazing to watch and startlingly believable as the aging over the hill patriarch nobody much wants around, but the actor playing Ivar is blowing me away with the utter physicality of this role.  It's one thing to read various accounts of Ivar the Boneless and contemplate maybe how he managed, it's another entirely to watch him drag himself around in an almost serpentine manner and fight and maneuver himself just on sheer upper body strength in a world that was completely unforgiving of his affliction.  I loved how the sparring scene with the brothers evolved from them thinking they were playing with him to each of them slowly realizing that he wasn't.  He's conveying a lot of quiet burning resentment and menace sometimes with just his eyes and he more than held his own in that wonderful ending scene with Ragnar and the two thrones.  I love that Ragnar began this episode giving him only a patronizing pat on the head and ended it clearly impressed and delighted that here was the son who could match him mentally and verbally.

It's probably not unrealistic that an attractive slave girl would be passed around in a household like that, but it doesn't make it any less squicky.  She definitely deserves credit though for being quick enough to talk her way out of being strangled and even managing to choose a message that would resonate with Ivar.

Pretty sure suicide by hanging is NOT the way to get to Valhalla.  Still, Ragnar really got to me too saying he wishes he'd never left the farm.  In many ways so do we, Ragnar, so do we.  That first season was kind of magical.

Edited by nodorothyparker
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gwhh

gwhh

On 12/15/2016 at 2:46 PM, millennium said:

Vik-agra.

I had no idea the show was back until just yesterday when I visited PTV's home page and saw the story about the most recent episode.   What a great, bittersweet and foreboding episode.

I thought the 8-year leap would prove awkward but other than my confusion over the sons it was okay.   I like that everyone is more or less still who they were (except of course for the sons, whom I don't like very much).   My heart clenched up when Ragnar said he wishes he never left the farm, as it did when he had that vision in an earlier episode.   It echoes our universal longing to return to younger, simpler days.

Where you see the number 8 years leap?  I've seen 6-10 years leap ahead in many different places.  

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millennium

millennium

16 minutes ago, gwhh said:

Where you see the number 8 years leap?  I've seen 6-10 years leap ahead in many different places.  

I read it in this forum, somewhere among the threads for the last three episodes.   I don't know for certain how many years passed.

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BitterApple

BitterApple

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

Hirst said in a Variety interview that it was "something like 6 years". The boys seem a bit older than that to me, but oh well. 

They seem older to me as well. IIRC, Ubbe was around 13 when Ragnar left for Paris. He looks way older than 19-ish in the recent episodes. If I was guesstimating I'd put Ubbe at around 23, Hvitserk and Sigurd at 19-21, and Ivar at 18. 

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jackjill89

jackjill89

(edited)
On 12/3/2016 at 7:33 PM, jnymph said:

Season 1&2 Vikings was by far the best show on TV for me.   IMO Ever since the death of  Athelstan this show has been on a slow downward spiral.

Hate Astrid & her 21st century haircut.

Lagertha's owl was hellishly cool though.

Astrid looks like she was from an 80s new wave band, complete with the long braid down the back. Drives me insane. Have we ever seen a woman with a shortish layered haircut in Medieval times? Ridiculous. 

Edited by jackjill89
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