S04.E11: The Outsider

[formerlyfreedom]

Ragnar's reappearance in Kattegat triggers a chain of events no one - except the Seer - could have ever imagined. He unexpectedly arrives home to see what has become of his sons and to handle unfinished business in Wessex with King Ecbert. Meanwhile, Lagertha plans a power play in Kattegat and Bjorn prepares to fulfill his long-held dream to explore the Mediterranean in a sleek new boat built for him by Floki.

[Ohwell]

Yay!  It's back!

[LittleIggy]

Team Lagertha can't wait! :-)

[BitterApple]

Squeeeeee!!!! So excited!!!!!

What the hell was Ragnar doing for eight years?! I hope they let us know.

[ChelleGame]

Can't wait! 

Just read two books in a trilogy set in that era (by Patricia Bracewell) while waiting for the return.

[green]

Posting this here so this is the most likely place people will see this tonight so hope that is okay.  This is especially for those posting here tonight and might not realize there are/were two other supplemental shows to go with this episode and take watch/tape them on the rebound.  Maybe delete this post AFTER tonight?

This is a whole night of Viking goodness it looks like.  Season 4 is playing right now (4 PM) and than we have:

8PM EST/PST, 7 PM Central: "Vikings: The Saga of Ragnar Lothbrok" being touted as a re-cap leading up to this episode.  If you miss it cause you are off watching modern day Vikings aka Survivor or whatever it is reaped later.

9PM EST/PST, 8 PM Central: "The Outsider" (this here episode)

10:02 PM EST/PST, 9 PM Central: "Real Vikings: Age of Invasion" (can we discuss this in this thread as well as a appendix to the episode?) It is billed a documentary featuring Clive Standan (Rollo) taking us on a tour of Europe and talking all things Viking and invasion so is all linked in as part of the premiere night apparently.

Then for those who missed these or missed recording them, the repeats:

11:04pm: "The Outsider"

12:04am: Vikings: The Saga of Ragnar" (Vikings clip show, wipes away tear of a highlight reel being made, it's only repeat)

1:03am: "The Outsider" again

2:04am: Clive Standon's doc "Real Vikings" only repeat.

3:04 am: :The Ourtsider" one more time!

Fanatical Viking insomniacs rejoice!  (Or you could just tape the whole overnight).

[Primetimer]

You thought THIS was a tough year? Yeah, yeah, talk to the King.

View the full article

[benteen]

Episode was GREAT.  All Vikings, all the time.  No trips to England and Paris and no Judith the Bore.

Fimmel proves again how mesmerizing he is as an actor.  His scenes with everyone were great.  Ragnar and Floki was awesome as Floki got what he wanted.  I had to laugh at the “I love you too, Ragnar Lothrbrok, which felt like something out of a romantic comedy.

I’m glad Ragnar and Lagertha got a scene like this.

The age make-up on Bjorn does make him look older.

Not a surprise that Ivar is a mess but the actor knocks it out of the park.  Loved the last scene with Ragnar.

[peridot]

I felt bad for Ivar when he tried faux-machismo on the servant during dinner and when he witnessed her with all his brothers - although them sharing a woman is weird.  It was good to see more of the relationships between the brothers, but I still can't pick out who's who. 

Ragnar looks old!  But Lagertha still looks as young as ever.  How old are they supposed to be now? 
 

[ihartcoffee]

Wow,  Ragnar confessed to Lagertha he wishes they never left the farm and he told Floki he loves him.  That gave me the feels. 

Ivar the stalker... for someone who can't walk he sure was everywhere.. I was wondering if he's impotent,  guess we know now.

Good first episode. 

[peridot]

C+P from other topic:

I felt bad for Ivar when he tried faux-machismo on the servant during dinner and when he witnessed her with all his brothers - although them sharing a woman is weird.  It was good to see more of the relationships between the brothers, but I still can't pick out who's who. 

Ragnar looks old!  But Lagertha still looks as young as ever.  How old are they supposed to be now? 

[benteen]

Episode was GREAT.  All Vikings, all the time.  No trips to England and Paris and no Judith the Bore.

Fimmel proves again how mesmerizing he is as an actor.  His scenes with everyone were great.  Ragnar and Floki was awesome as Floki got what he wanted.  I had to laugh at the “I love you too, Ragnar Lothrbrok, which felt like something out of a romantic comedy.

I’m glad Ragnar and Lagertha got a scene like this.

The age make-up on Bjorn does make him look older.

Not a surprise that Ivar is a mess but the actor knocks it out of the park.  Loved the last scene with Ragnar.

[Babalooie]

On 11/30/2016 at 10:29 PM, peridot said:

C+P from other topic:

I felt bad for Ivar when he tried faux-machismo on the servant during dinner and when he witnessed her with all his brothers - although them sharing a woman is weird.  It was good to see more of the relationships between the brothers, but I still can't pick out who's who. 

Ragnar looks old!  But Lagertha still looks as young as ever.  How old are they supposed to be now? 

Peridot, Ivar is obvious, but a couple of the other brothers are confusing. Sigurd Snake in the Eye is pretty easy to ID because he's the only blonde. As for the other two, Ubbe has the short hair in front with a braided back and Hvitserk has the light brown (?) long hair parted in the middle. Hope this helps.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Babalooie
Added more details.

[Straycat80]

I'm so glad this show is back. Everyone is older and the beards are gnarlier. 

Thank you Babalooie,  I'm going to refer to your post on how to tell the brothers apart because I was having a hard time knowing who was who. 

[LittleIggy]

I teared up when Ragnar said to Lagertha that he wished he had never left their farm. It reminded me of how, on the way to Paris, he imagined seeing Lagertha with the children on the beach motioning him to come home.

Ivor is pure creepy.

I figured Bjorn would have a family with Torvi. I hope we find out what happened.

Good to see Floki and his wife still sharing eyeliner. :-)

I have a now 7 month old Manx kitten named Sigurd the Tailless! I like the name Sigurd not the character so far.

Edited December 1, 2016 by LittleIggy
Correcting grammatical error.

[gwhh]

Poor boneless. Man sword does not work and he has to kill every woman that founds out. Good thing servant girl could talk him out of it. She got a way with the words (she needs to get a job in the Vikings diplomatic corps).  Why do I get the feeling several other female servants, female slaves, or Viking hookers woman.  Have "disappeared" to keep the secret about his lack of man sword strength 

Worst question ever from a woman:  just because your prick does not work. Does not mean you are less of a man?

Answer from every man that every lived on that subject:   YES.  

Edited December 1, 2016 by gwhh

[thuganomics85]

The actor playing Ivor is perfect so far.  He is already creeping me the hell out, which is impressive, because this show isn't short of intimidating characters.  I'm glad the servant girl was able to talk her way out of getting strangled to death, but he clearly is one messed up individual.  Him going to England with Ragnar is going to be interesting.  It's equally interesting that he is the son who is most forgiving of Ragnar, even though Ragnar always treated him the worst ("Hey, remember the time I left you as a baby in the woods, to die?  Not my best moment!")

Ragnar saying his good-byes to both Floki and Lagertha was touching.  The Ragnar/Lagertha scene in general was the highlight.  Travis Fimmel and Kathryn Winnick have such great chemistry, and there interactions are perfect as two people who will clearly never get back together, but they still care for one another, and, honestly, they will probably never have a relationship with anyone else that they had with one another.  There is just so much history between them and they show it.  I totally believe Ragnar when he said that part of him wishes they never left that farm.  Reminded me of that vision he had last season.  I really do think he will miss those days when it was just him, her, and the kids (oh, and Athelstan!)

I see that Lagertha though has not only moved on, but decided she's had enough of men, and is going to give women a try!  Hey, I can't blame her, when you look at her history.  Out of Ragnar, Ecbert, and Kalf, Ragnar might actually be the best of the trio, and that's really saying something!

I still haven't got all the names down of the other sons, but I'm curious to see where there stories go.  But I still love Bjorn the most.  Can't wait to see him go off on his own and try and lead his own raid.

Even in just one scene, Aslaug still knows how to bring on the smugness!

Travis Fimmel continues to have some of the best facial reactions and physical acting in the business.

Welcome back, Vikings!

[Valmarmar]

Loved the first episode. Ditto posters above.  Also, enjoyed the "Real Vikings" show afterwards. Hey Rollo.  

[LittleIggy]

7 minutes ago, Valmarmar said:

Loved the first episode. Ditto posters above.  Also, enjoyed the "Real Vikings" show afterwards. Hey Rollo.  

I loved getting to see shirtless Rollo again! ;-)

[Knuckles]

Ivar is seriously creepy...not just weird creepy, but murderously creepy. And watching him drag himself around like a snake adds to the effect. And impotent...well, the real Ivar had a reputation for stunning cruelty...abandonment by his father and impotence may have contributed to that rage.

Loving Fimmel as Ragnar as always...but man, they have made him look old and hefty...he has that old man's belly now. Lagertha still looks as fresh as ever...I need her anti-aging secret. And Aslaug..still as smug and irritating as ever. I do hope Lagertha has a chance to take her out.

And Floki...where's the guy liner? 

[BitterApple]

Ivar is giving me shades of Ramsay Bolton. They're both total psychopaths with daddy issues.

Once again Travis Fimmel was magnificent as Ragnar. You really sensed the profound sadness as Ragnar realized he's the Dark Ages equivalent of a has-been. He wants his family and friends to need him but everyone's moved on. I did find him hilarious as he was trying to figure out the relationship between Lagaertha and Astrid. 

I can't quite get a good read on the sons because they all sort of blend together, but it's early in the season. Hopefully we'll see continued character development to establish their personalities and agendas.

Overall, great start!

[magdalene]

I am glad this show is back!  Good return and very effective in showing us an origins story of Ivar the Boneless, another of the great Viking leaders,  clearly somebody quite terrifying but still effectively humanized I thought as "The Outsider" of the episode title.

The difference between Game Of Thrones and Vikings among other things is that GOT gets its rocks off with monsters like Ramsay Bolton.  In contrast Vikings doesn't shy away from the monstrous side of certain characters  while showing us also their humanity.  And this show is much less exploitative of its female characters - case in point when the powerless slave who seemed destined to be strangled by Ivar saved herself through her words.

The program after, "Real Vikings" was very good too.  I felt happy for Clive Standen ( who has always been so enthusiastic about the show and his character) that he got to touch the resting place of the bones of Rollo of Normandy. One could tell this meant a lot to him.

[Kalliste]

Finally it is back! I've been waiting so long.. and yet not as long as everyone else as I only started my Vikings journey in the last few months.

Ivar is creepy and I love it, I thought it was funny when the slave girl was talking him down and saying how it's easy to have sex and children but not many people get to be the son of Ragnar... considering there are 5 (6 if you count Magnus) of them, it doesn't really seem that hard to be a son of Ragnar :P

I found it interesting that Ragnar is yet to approach Aslaug but is kind of just slinking around the village.. he didn't even see her as being worthy of a goodbye before he attempted to kill himself. 

It's sad to see that he has sunk so low that he no longer cares whether he gets into Valhalla or Heaven but just wants his life to be over. Hopefully his trek to England gets him a bit more willing to live. I hope we get to see what happened to him while he was away and why he suddenly decided to come back (assuming it was a sudden decision), I don't know if I believe his reasoning to his sons.

[green]

4 hours ago, magdalene said:

I am glad this show is back!  Good return and very effective in showing us an origins story of Ivar the Boneless, another of the great Viking leaders,  clearly somebody quite terrifying but still effectively humanized I thought as "The Outsider" of the episode title. ...

The program after, "Real Vikings" was very good too.  I felt happy for Clive Standen ( who has always been so enthusiastic about the show and his character) that he got to touch the resting place of the bones of Rollo of Normandy. One could tell this meant a lot to him.

Funny cause I thought "the Outsider" referred to Ragnar no longer being part of any of their lives.  I mean Ivar was included by his brothers in their activities and they even tried to help him with the sex thing without being jerks about it to him.

And yeah when Standen put his hand on the real Rollo's sarcophagus that was a heavy moment.

Thanks to Babalooie above for spelling out the second of Aslaug's sons - Hvitserk.  I had the looks down from last season though I tended to use vest colors for the two older ones so hair is less likely to be changed than vests but with Vikings who knows how long they go between laundry cycles too.  But I could never figure out how to pronounce this guy's name.  Anyone care to post phonetically as in is the "e" is like in geek etc and explain how "Hv" is a sound I can master?  Cause all I can guess right now is kind of Vit-serk and the actors on screen didn't sound like they were saying that.

I loved this episode as the calm before the storm.  A way to reconnect with the group and meet the next generation and explore characters as opposed to too much plot being rushed at us.  A way to prepare for the wild ride ahead.

The two emotional highlights were obviously, as others have said, Ragner and Lagertha first.  And I think they did age Lagertha a bit finally and given how young the actor is that plays her I think they did a good job.  And yeah the springtime of hope back on the farm will always be better than the early winter of reality.  You had it good then Ragnar and didn't even know it.  Yeah Earl Haraldsen literally forced you to leave the farm starting it all but still much of this is on you too so glad you realize that.

While having Lagertha decide to have a lesbian relationship is a bit too modern a bone for Hirst to throw in as in "look, Vikings, they are progressives, yeah Vikings they are the ancient cool guys" I did like the actor playing Astrid.  So maybe it will work out after all.

And then there is Floki's long, unrequited love finally being answered.  That moment was awesome.  Floki probably felt better than he has felt like in forever.  And since Athelstan had forgiven Floki even as the knife struck him it was time for Ragnar to as well.  (Now if only Mr Burns tells Smithers the same thing, though not in  a Ragnar platonic way, all our TV characters will be happy).

And Ragnar saved by the ravens of Odin.  The raven which is Ragnar's sign and symbol.  He must live because the ravens were there to save the day.  So cheers to the ravens ... unless you are a Saxon that is.

And Ivar, what can we say about the lad.  He is like all the negative, dark places in Ragnar's soul placed into this one son with Aslaug's cold cunning added.  But he is also a human and wants to literally screw around like his brothers thinking that makes him a man.  The servant girl was right.  Probably well over 95% of men can and will "rut" and the majority produce off spring somewhere along the line.  That is indeed NOT special.  And Ivar has always wanted to be special.  So get on with becoming that special personification of chaos and cruelty that will go down in the history books there Ivar. 

But again it was good to see a little of how hard it would be for him to be a Viking with a major physical handicap or two.  No electric powered wheelchairs and handicapped ramps for same back in ancient Scandinavia.  It was interesting to see his brothers weren't treating him too badly in the main.  Guess Aslaug would have had their hides if they did so they learned early on to respect him.  And now that Daddy has noticed him in a positive way he will be lapping that up happily and growing stronger day by day.

About the other boys.  Ubbe did have a good line where he called the girl a servant and not a slave and that she was a human being and she herself would have to give permission to have her go with Ivar.  Pretty darn progressive for a Viking of that day.  He also seems like the thinker of the group as well.  Sigurd seemed hung up on some legalistic interpretation of the Norse gods as in you lose a battle you lose their support end of story.  Maybe he will become Team Sons lawyer, heh (just kidding).  Have no read of the hard to pronounce son at all yet.  He was the one venting most about killing Ragnar in the previous lead-up episode but soon wilted under the Ragnar stare.  He is the one saying he is going with Bjorn so seems he just wants to avoid Daddy at this point.

Love Bjorn.  He is so eager to go on his Med raiding holiday but we all know that is going to be delayed though don't we.  Daddy's back and wants some ships  and Bjorn just happens to have a whole fleet of brand new ones.  It will be interesting to see how he gives in to Ragnar.

Edited December 1, 2016 by green

[Babalooie]

Regarding Ivar's equipment failure, it must have eventually worked.  According to ancestry.com,  I can call Ivar and Sigurd great grandfather, being descended from them on both my mother's and father's sides.  It makes sense.  The Viking connection came when that line wound up marrying someone from the Orkney Islands in Scotland.

[mwell345]

Well, I'll go stand in the corner by myself, because I didn't like it.  I just think the show started going downhill this season, and Vikings used to be "can't miss" TV for me.  Halfway through, I asked my husband (another fan) what he thought and he just shrugged.  I can't even really put my finger on why I thought it was "blah".

[AzureOwl]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I see that Lagertha though has not only moved on, but decided she's had enough of men, and is going to give women a try!  Hey, I can't blame her, when you look at her history.  Out of Ragnar, Ecbert, and Kalf, Ragnar might actually be the best of the trio, and that's really saying something!

There could also be a more pragmatic component. I don't think Lagertha would survive another pregnancy at her age, let alone another miscarriage. 

[ghoulina]

10 hours ago, ihartcoffee said:

Ivar the stalker... for someone who can't walk he sure was everywhere.. I was wondering if he's impotent,  guess we know now.

My husband is huge into Norse Mythology and history; he's read all the sagas. So I asked him if Ivar the Boneless really can't walk in them, or what exactly was wrong with him. He said it's never very clearly addressed, but she always suspected the "boneless" part wasn't referring to his legs. Then he kept making a drooping finger motion throughout the episode, like a 15-year-old. So I was a bit irritate when he was proved right. 

 

9 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I teared up when Ragnar said to Lagertha that he wished he had never left their farm.

Is it wrong that I wished he'd never left their farm either? 

 

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 But I still love Bjorn the most.  Can't wait to see him go off on his own and try and lead his own raid.

Agreed. I am more excited about Bjorn's journeys than Ragnar's. I had enough of the latter the first of half of this season. He might be on the path to redeeming himself in my eyes, but for now Bjorn has my interest. 

 

8 hours ago, Knuckles said:

Lagertha still looks as fresh as ever...I need her anti-aging secret

I thought Helga (who is actually my favorite of the ladies) looked amazing as well. 

[FlowerofCarnage]

2 hours ago, Babalooie said:

Regarding Ivar's equipment failure, it must have eventually worked.  According to ancestry.com,  I can call Ivar and Sigurd great grandfather, being descended from them on both my mother's and father's sides.  It makes sense.  The Viking connection came when that line wound up marrying someone from the Orkney Islands in Scotland.

Looks like he has no trouble starting the engine, he just can't  keep it running. lol I found it interesting that he was embarrassed that he could not "please a woman". I wonder if there is any historical accuracy to a Viking woman's  sexual pleasure being seen as just as important as a man's. I mean these guys rob, rape, pillage and kill but Odin forbid it gets around town that your sex game is wack. Lol 

[AzureOwl]

5 minutes ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

Looks like he has no trouble starting the engine, he just can't  keep it running. lol I found it interesting that he was embarrassed that he could not "please a woman". I wonder if there is any historical accuracy to a Viking woman's  sexual pleasure being seen as just as important as a man's. I mean these guys rob, rape, pillage and kill but Odin forbid it gets around town that your sex game is wack. Lol 

Probably only inasmuch as it reflected badly on the man's virility. 

[Hana Chan]

2 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

There could also be a more pragmatic component. I don't think Lagertha would survive another pregnancy at her age, let alone another miscarriage.

It's also a question of power. She's had men trying to take her jarlship from her from the moment she got it and has had too many negative interactions from those who were supposed to be her partners - one husband cheats on her in his quest to get the sons he wanted and the second one abused and humilated her. She had one creep that she ended up castrating and another that she killed outright on her wedding day. If she wants to keep her authority, a man at her side will always be a risk.

[attica]

No kidding, I have zero interest in Boneless's boner. (But I will object on the record to Ivar's equating boner-having with 'satisfying a woman,' because: srsly,no.)

On the other hand, I am here for all of Floki's feels.

[BitterApple]

4 hours ago, mwell345 said:

Well, I'll go stand in the corner by myself, because I didn't like it.  I just think the show started going downhill this season, and Vikings used to be "can't miss" TV for me.  Halfway through, I asked my husband (another fan) what he thought and he just shrugged.  I can't even really put my finger on why I thought it was "blah".

I wonder if it's because half the cast is new characters that we don't really know and haven't formed any attachment to. That's a pretty huge shift for a series  already heading towards its' conclusion. 

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

It's also a question of power. She's had men trying to take her jarlship from her from the moment she got it and has had too many negative interactions from those who were supposed to be her partners - one husband cheats on her in his quest to get the sons he wanted and the second one abused and humilated her. She had one creep that she ended up castrating and another that she killed outright on her wedding day. If she wants to keep her authority, a man at her side will always be a risk.

I hope I'm wrong, but for some reason I'm side-eyeing Lagertha's female lover.  I mean, women can be just as crafty as men.  Just keep an eye on her, Lagertha.

[BigBlueMastiff]

Quote

While having Lagertha decide to have a lesbian relationship is a bit too modern a bone for Hirst to throw in as in "look, Vikings, they are progressives, yeah Vikings they are the ancient cool guys" I did like the actor playing Astrid.  So maybe it will work out after all.

I thought this seemed modern too, anyone have any historical insight to share?

At first, I thought this ep was slow and plodding, but began to appreciate the slow boil of character development, especially of the brothers. The look on Ragnar's face when the noose broke was priceless, the look of, damn, now this?

[attica]

2 hours ago, BigBlueMastiff said:

While having Lagertha decide to have a lesbian relationship is a bit too modern a bone for Hirst to throw in

As long as there have been people, there have been people in same-sex relationships. Just because western (i.e. Christian) histories give them short shrift doesn't mean it's New Under the Sun.

[MrsR]

I really liked this episode. I didn't mind the slow pace. Ragnar makes amends and re-establishes relationships all the while trying to get an ally for his redemption tour.

 

While I love history shows that demonstrate just how extreme life was back then with all the plotting and ambition and revenge and violence what I love about this show is how poetic is at times. Especially concerning death.  Siggy on the ice for instance. They are avoiding the trope of the mighty Viking plunging head long into death by an act of bravery. (They've done that) No, Ragnar instead has this slow dance with death. Will he go to heaven, will he go to Valhalla? I'm really looking forward to the future episodes.

[Catri]

8 hours ago, mwell345 said:

Well, I'll go stand in the corner by myself, because I didn't like it.  I just think the show started going downhill this season, and Vikings used to be "can't miss" TV for me.  Halfway through, I asked my husband (another fan) what he thought and he just shrugged.  I can't even really put my finger on why I thought it was "blah".

I'll share that corner with you.  I thought it dragged and nothing really happened.  You'd think that after such a long mid-season break they'd have moved things forward a little more or have had something substantial happen in the first episode back. 

[Ohwell]

I loved this episode.  I've gotten mentally prepared for "older" Ragnar to kind of fade into the background, and I'm looking forward to see what his sons do.  Ivar (Ivor?) is certainly interesting.  I give the servant girl major props for her quick thinking that saved her life.

I'm also looking forward to Bjorn's escapades, and hope there's a final throwdown between Lagertha and Aslaug, with Lagertha coming out on top.  

[ghoulina]

5 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I hope I'm wrong, but for some reason I'm side-eyeing Lagertha's female lover.  I mean, women can be just as crafty as men.  Just keep an eye on her, Lagertha.

Agreed. I thought she seemed very into Ragnar as well. 

[Ohwell]

3 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Agreed. I thought she seemed very into Ragnar as well. 

Yes, she was giving Ragnar the once over.  It was funny when he had to tell her he was old enough to be her father.  She seems very ambitious.  I hope Ragnar will keep an eye on her on Lagertha's behalf.

[BitterApple]

I agree with the comments regarding Astrid. It was rather odd how she told Lagertha she "loved" Ragnar after knowing him all of two minutes. I hope Lagertha doesn't suffer another betrayal. She has pretty bad luck when it comes to relationships.

I know last night's episode wasn't action packed, but I felt it was important as a way to establish the new order (Ragnar's sons) and give them some sort of identity. I'm sure the pacing will start to pick up before long. In the grand scheme of things, the episode wasn't mind blowing, but it was a decent start to kick off the new season.

[Haleth]

That was awesome.  I can't remember, are we sure Ivar is Ragnar's son?  Or might he have been a result of the Wanderer's tryst with Aslaug?  He is very different from all his other brothers.

The hanging scene was great. Foiled by the crows (ravens?) of Odin.  The gods aren't done with you yet, Ragnar Lothbrok. Fimmel's reactions to falling to the ground were great. He has the most expressive face.

Still, it's kind of sad to see Ragnar, Floki, and Lagertha in their waning years. I'm nostalgic for seeing them all in their magnificent prime. 

[LittleIggy]

Forgot to mention- loved Lagertha's pet owl! :-)

[WatchrTina]

I echo all the positives that people have mentioned.  The only negative that really bugged me was that the actress that played the slave girl was really bad.  She only had a few lines to deliver (during and after being strangled) and they were SO bad.  I give the actor playing Ivar a lot of credit for being able to work up such a believable emotional reaction to her words given her wooden delivery.

[green]

On 12/1/2016 at 0:39 PM, BigBlueMastiff said:

I thought this seemed modern too, anyone have any historical insight to share?

At first, I thought this ep was slow and plodding, but began to appreciate the slow boil of character development, especially of the brothers. The look on Ragnar's face when the noose broke was priceless, the look of, damn, now this?

See below about where Hirst got the idea from.  No historical indication of any character like this around Lagertha.

On 12/1/2016 at 3:05 PM, attica said:

As long as there have been people, there have been people in same-sex relationships. Just because western (i.e. Christian) histories give them short shrift doesn't mean it's New Under the Sun.

I should have been clearer.  I was thinking of the article here in the thread with the article links where Michael Hirst said he based Astrid on some specific modern day "free spirit" I think he called her so when I finally saw her she indeed looked too much like a modern day figured shoved into a 800's scenario for a modern day agenda.  Not an 800's lesbian in other words not that Hirst would have a template for such handy. 

But historically she is inaccurate in that she isn't a real historical figure like Lagertha was.  No problem with adding fictional constructs but this one was based on a 21st century template and seems "off" as a result to me.  Maybe if i didn't know about his "inspiration " for this character in advance I wouldn't notice it being off.  But she did seem so open and forward with Ragnar etc for someone living in the 800's.

18 hours ago, Haleth said:

That was awesome.  I can't remember, are we sure Ivar is Ragnar's son?  Or might he have been a result of the Wanderer's tryst with Aslaug?  He is very different from all

Yes Ivar is most definitely Ragnar's son.  The Wanderer didn't show up until after he was born and actually first won Aslaug's trust by "miraculously" stopping the baby Ivar from constantly crying in pain all the time.

Speaking of Ragnar's offspring, so Magnus is indeed Ragnar's son too born of Queen Crazy Pants.  I guess since they specifically went out of their way to mentioned him this episode he will figure into the plot soon once they get back to merry olde England.

Edited December 2, 2016 by green

[Lillybee]

Is there a reason why everyone on this show is so soft spoken? I needed closed captions to understand what they were saying.

[Kalliste]

3 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Forgot to mention- loved Lagertha's pet owl! :-)

Hah when she walked in with it I said "Yes, I carry an owl now!" it was so random :P

[Ravenya003]

I enjoyed this a lot - as always, the time seemed to fly by.

Ragnar's scenes with Floki and Lagertha felt like closure; it wouldn't surprise me if we never saw any interaction between them again. From here on out, the characters will be separated in their various subplots. Which I suppose is understandable, but it's sad to think we'll never again see a scene like the one in the season two finale, where all our mains were unified in the takedown of King Horik.

In fact, the whole thing felt very much like the beginning of the end, at least for Ragnar. I liked the scene of his attempted hanging; it once again drives home his connection to Odin (just as Floki is Loki) and I'd put money on him losing an eye before the season is out. 

Of Ragnar's sons it seems that Ubbe and Ivar will be the important ones, as each seem to embody the good/bad traits of Ragnar. Ubbe is somewhat unimaginative, but kind to his brother and insistent that a slave-girl be asked permission before sex, while Ivar has all of Ragnar's cunning and spite. That final scene in the throne room was interesting: they were framed as perfect equals on the thrones, and Ragnar seemed delighted with Ivar playing him at his own word-games. 

I'm glad the slave-girl wasn't killed off just to drive home Ivar's evil tendencies (I've had enough of that, here and in other stories) but instead manages to talk her way out of a dangerous situation. 

Loved Lagertha's owl. 

[mwell345]

12 hours ago, Haleth said:

The hanging scene was great. Foiled by the crows (ravens?) of Odin.  The gods aren't done with you yet, Ragnar Lothbrok. Fimmel's reactions to falling to the ground were great. He has the most expressive face.

One thing about this show - Fimmel (and the rest of the cast) never fail to deliver.